PDA

View Full Version : Guns and Cell Phones



The Weasel
10-05-2002, 13:03
Couldn't resist posting this, as received from a friend:

Two hikers are in the woods when one of them collapses. He doesn't seem to be breathing and his eyes are glazed. The other guy whips out his phone and calls 911. He gasps: "My friend is dead! What can I do?" The operator says: "Calm down, I can help. First, make sure he's dead." There is a silence, then a shot is heard. Back on the phone, the guy says: "OK, now what?"

The Weasel

SGT Rock
10-05-2002, 13:39
I love that joke. I heard it a while back, except it was two Alabama rednecks hunting. I like the hiker version better.

You would never catch an ultralighter doing that :D

buttercup
10-05-2002, 14:47
There is a professor from someplace researching the world's funniest joke. (Read this recently, but can't remember where.) That particular joke was the supposed to be the #1 funniest of all.

Now that I think of it... the second funniest also had a outdoorsy bent... it was about sherlock holmes out camping.

-- Amy

buttercup
10-05-2002, 14:53
Just looked it up... it was a something named Laughlab where people voted for the best joke. The professor is from England. The site I just looked at said the Sherlock HOlmes joke came in first and the hunting (or hiking) one second. Here's the other for anyone who cares and hasn't heard it...

The joke: ''Sherlock Holmes and Dr. Watson go camping, and pitch their tent under the stars. During the night, Holmes wakes his companion and says: 'Watson, look up at the stars, and tell me what you deduce.'
Watson says: 'I see millions of stars, and even if a few of those have planets, it's quite likely there are some planets like Earth, and if there are a few planets like Earth out there, there might also be life.'
Holmes replies: 'Watson, you idiot. Somebody stole our tent'.''

Hikerhead
10-05-2002, 15:14
Buttercup, that one is funny. When I heard it it involved the Lone Ranger and Tonto.

My all time favorite joke is one that involves a horse, a chicken and the farmers cadillac. I'm not sure if I can tell it here, nothing really bad about it. hMMMMMM

EarlyRiser
10-05-2002, 17:46
those are all really funny. id heard the shirlock one before. still cracks me up though.

Jumpstart
10-09-2002, 22:43
The best joke we heard on the trail was was at Fontana Inn:

A pirate walks into a bar with a steering wheel hanging out of his pants.

He says "yar, bartender, fetch me drink!" The bartender gives him a good look, passes him a drink, and leans over to say "hey, buddy, did you know there is a steering wheel hanging out of your pants?

"arrr," the pirate says "it's been there for days; and it's drivin' me nuts!"

For some reason this joke was particulaly funny if the person telling it could do a good "pirate" accent.

EarlyRiser
10-10-2002, 15:26
I created a thread under general for hiking jokes, i think we should continue there.

mntman777
10-25-2002, 15:22
weasel that was great. Loved it. I can never remember jokes. A docter a priest, and a lwyer walk into a bar. The bartender says, "what is this, A joke? Ok anyway, keep em coming.

chief
10-26-2002, 00:39
was wondering what kind of luck people are having with cell phones on the AT. i know i spent a fortune on phone calls during my 2000 hike (land lines only). my first mistake was using an AT&T phone card (charged to my home phone). then i tried the pre-paid cards like you find in a convienence store. crap!!! there's gotta be a better way. now a friend is trying to sell me on carrying a cell phone. she says i can use it in an emergency and call her more for less money when in town (where it can be charged up). somehow i think the service will be spotty (at best) on the AT. how 'bout all those little towns? any commments will be welcome.

as for guns. i might be packin', i might not.

Jack Tarlin
10-26-2002, 11:33
Anyone considering packing a firearm should be aware that at some point on the Trail, unless they work in law enforcement high on the Federal Level, like the FBI, Justice Department, US Marshall's office, etc.---unless they're at this level, then at some point they'll absolutley be breaking the law if they carry firearms on the A.T. And there is a very good chance that some other hiker that doesn't wanna be around guns will report your packing to the authorities, putting the gun owner at risk of losing the gun, never mind the very real risk of arrest, fine, or even imprisonment.

Nobody wants to see guns out there, or to be around them, and in the vast majority of cases, would be unconfortable hiking with, or camping with someone carrying a firearm. The perception is that anyone who is out there that feels the need to carry a gun doesn't belong on the A.T. or amongst the long-distance hiking community.

The gun will not make you safe unless you have IMMEDIATE access to it at all times; carrying an unloaded or hidden weapon is a waste of time and adds nothing to your self-defense; a gun buried in your pack, or hidden where it can't be seen or easily reached is less than worthless, and becomes a potential threat to you or others if it becomes lost, stolen, or taken away from you.

In short, you don't need a gun on the Trail; in all liklihood you can't legally carry it in many places anyway; nobody will want anything to do with you if you are known to be carrying; you risk arrest and prosecution if you're caught with one; and unless it's right where you can always get at it, it's worthless weight and adds nothing to your safety.

Leave the guns at home.

SGT Rock
10-26-2002, 12:13
Back to the hiker jokes thing, how about this oldie but goodie?

Two backpackers age walking along the trail when a bear starts comming at them like he is going to attack. One hiker puts his pack down and starts taking his boots off, changing into running shoes. The second terrified hiker says: "Why are you doing that, you can't possibly out run that bear?"

The first hiker replies: "I don't have to out run the bear, just you."

chief
10-26-2002, 14:12
good lord, jack, i was kidding about packing! sounded like a direct quote from the anti-gun lobby. no way i'm gonna put 5lbs of metal in my pack, legalities aside. was trying to get advice on cell-phones. never used one, much less in rural places.

Jack Tarlin
10-26-2002, 14:38
My apologies to Chief; I must be in humor-impaired mode today. However, you'd be amazed at how many people think carrying a gun is a good idea, or at how many prospective hikers are actually considering it, so I'll stand by my comments, with apologies that they were posted at the wrong time and place.

The Weasel
10-26-2002, 15:48
Chief:

Re Cell Phones:

I think they're a bad idea, and I come from both perspectives, and I'm not talking about merely the aesthetics and how they affect other people on the trail. In my first thru hike attempt, I didn't have one, and used a "virtual phone card" recommended to me by others, from "BigZoo.com", which I could recharge regularly, used an easily remembered set of numbers, and was/is about 4 cents a minute (not counting the 50 cent connection fee at pay phones). I didn't get hit bad in the budget by using it.

A cell phone, on the other hand, is going to be both expensive - not every region uses YOUR system, and "roaming" charges can be vicious. I took my cell with me for the last 75 miles I've sectioned, largely for some unique family concerns, and found that it was unreliable at best. Not every mountain (thank god!) has a cell tower, and many of the valleys and coves, even near towns, have no reception. Even by many roads it was useless.

There will be some times when your reception will be good, but you're better using the phone card/BigZoo type of concept.

As for guns, Chief, I know (now) you were kidding, but that is a VERY sensitive topic on the trail, for many reasons (most of which Jack hit on), and it's not a good topic to joke about. I'm not trying to be "PC" about it, but if someone is serious about bringing a gun, they'll get an earfull of solid reasons why they shouldn't, since there are many of us who have real concerns about walking into someone (outside of hunting season) who is, as you phrased it, "packing".

The Weasel

chief
10-26-2002, 16:03
weasel, i see your points on the use of cell phones. i may have to carry one anyway, to appease my friend. she has visions of me lying unconscious on the trail (like happened to me in 2000, don't know what a cell would have done for me there). i'll check out the phone card you mention.

jack, i'm getting a little grumpy in my old age. sorry for my reaction. your points are valid to say the least.

Kozmic Zian
02-21-2004, 10:15
Yea.......Cell Phones/Guns. Both are heavy, both ineffective in The Woods. Leave 'um at home. KZ@

Brushy Sage
02-21-2004, 12:27
I love this website!

micromega
02-21-2004, 12:50
Advice once given during a discussion of guns on trails: "Son, this here aint the wild west. The on'y gun y'all wanna carry is'n the one y'all was borned with"

slightly crude, slightly off color, slightly sexist, but accurate nonetheless...

Patco
02-21-2004, 18:44
A 3-legged dog limps into a bar and says, I'm lookin' fer the man what shot my Paw." (pa)

Disclaimer: dogs can't really talk.

highway
02-21-2004, 19:43
Chief:

used a "virtual phone card" recommended to me by others, from "BigZoo.com", which I could recharge regularly, used an easily remembered set of numbers, and was/is about 4 cents a minute (not counting the 50 cent connection fee at pay phones). I didn't get hit bad in the budget by using it. The Weasel

Guns-single use item & too heavy!

Cell Phone-Multi use item But I just can't bring myself to carry one

But I sure am looking for the best phone card. Weasel, are you still about?Is this it? Or does someone else have a better idea?

Brushy Sage
02-21-2004, 19:49
I used a Sprint card that I bought at Radio Shack, and it was very satisfactory. Friends tell me a cheaper one is available at Sam's Club, but I didn't go there.

YerbaJon
03-16-2005, 14:56
I had been using a company called Nobelcom.com because of their amazing 1 cent - 2 cent calling card options. I inquired about additional payphone charges and received the following reply. I am just posting this reply to share with the community the most affordable calling card company that I know:
Our cards are available for use from any active phone line. We will provide you with a toll free or local access number (all access numbers are toll free from the United States), and if applicable, you will be responsible for any airtime charges incurred by your carrier to dial those numbers. You will not be responsible for any long distance charges.

As our calling cards use tones to identify authorization codes, our cards are not designed to be used from rotary or pulse tone phones.

As stated in the card details, public payphones may incur an additional charge of up to $0.99 depending on the payphone carrier's policy. This surcharge is regulated by the FCC and we have no control over it. The same surcharge applies to all our products.

If you have any further questions, please contact us at 888.520.9215 from the continental United States, 800.686.6235 from Canada, or +1.760.517.0765 from overseas twenty four hours a day, seven days a week.

Thank you.
Sincerely,

Fiona

Support Team
NobelCom.com

The Old Fhart
03-16-2005, 15:30
Two idiots go deer hunting. One accidently shoots the other and finally gets him to the hospital. After a long while the doctor comes out of the OR and this is the conversation.

"Doctor, is my buddy going to make it?"
"Well his chances would have been better if you hadn't gutted him first."

Kozmic Zian
03-16-2005, 15:49
Two idiots go deer hunting. One accidently shoots the other and finally gets him to the hospital. After a long while the doctor comes out of the OR and this is the conversation.

"Doctor, is my buddy going to make it?"
"Well his chances would have been better if you hadn't gutted him first." Yea......Fhart, let's all go hunting. Where's LW when ya's Needs him? KZ@:jump

Smile
03-16-2005, 16:21
So a hiker comes upon a shelter and sees a blonde fiddling with a stove, cursing and finally kicking it under the picnic bench....the Hiker says "what's up with your stove?" The Blonde says: "I give up it's just not working" and stomps off into the woods.......a few minutes later...the blonde comes back and the other hiker has the stove burning smoothly..... the blond says" What was wrong with it?" the hiker says..."ah nothing, crap in the burner"......the blond looks very serious...thinks for a few mintues and says "how often do I have to do that?"



:rolleyes:

RockyTrail
03-16-2005, 19:32
A hiker and a Reverend hitch a ride across the Atlantic in Bill & Hillary's private airplane. The plane runs out of fuel 500 miles short due to unexpected headwinds.

There aren't enough parachutes to go around, so the pilot quickly takes his and bails out. Bill says "The world needs me to keep the peace" so he bails out. Hillary says "The world needs my extraordinary brains and ability, so I'm taking this 'chute and bailing out."

The Reverend says to the hiker, "Son, go ahead and take the last parachute. I've lived a long life and I'm ready to go if it's my time."

The hiker says "Hey, no problem Reverend, there's parachutes for both of us. The smartest woman in the world just bailed out with my backpack." :D

oldfivetango
03-16-2005, 19:50
Yea.......Cell Phones/Guns. Both are heavy, both ineffective in The Woods. Leave 'um at home. KZ@ Ok People-Lissen Up
I am not packing my certificated firearm for alot of reasons-IMMEDIATE
ACCESS that Jack hit on being key,plus the responsiblity is just too big
of an issue in an environment like the AT.
But the phone is a different deal altogether.I have no expectation of using
it on the trail and negating someone else's wilderness experience.But it just
might work in town and save me a bundle as i got the all america plan and that sort of negates the "roaming" argument.Plus it has all my numbers.
Now here's a question on subject-How is a gun like a cell phone?
Put either one to your ear while out on the AT and you're likely to get hurt.:D
Cheers,
Oldfivetango

Smile
03-16-2005, 19:58
A hiker comes to the river crossing up north and wants to get across, sees another hiker on the other side and yells over.... HOW DO I GET TO THE OTHER SIDE....
The other hiker looks up river, then down river and yells:
YOU ARE ON THE OTHER SIDE!

RockyTrail
03-17-2005, 11:56
A hiker hobbles into the Doctor's office and says "Doctor, I've hiked all the way here from Amicalola and my right leg is killing me, can you take a look at it?"

"Sure," says the doc and he puts his stethoscope to the hiker's right shin bone. He hears a small voice say "Doc, can you lend me a quarter?"

Then he listens to the hiker's right knee and hears "Hey Doc, can you lend me a dollar?"

Then he puts the stethoscope to the hiker's right thigh and hears "Doc, can you lend me a twenty?"

The Doctor puts down the stethoscope and sighs, shaking his head gently from side to side.
The hiker says "Well, did you find out what's happened to my leg?"
The doc says "Yes; I really hate to tell you this, but your leg is broke in three places!" :jump

Tim Rich
03-17-2005, 13:35
A hiker hobbles into the Doctor's office and says "Doctor, I've hiked all the way here from Amicalola and my right leg is killing me, can you take a look at it?"

"Sure," says the doc and he puts his stethoscope to the hiker's right shin bone. He hears a small voice say "Doc, can you lend me a quarter?"

Then he listens to the hiker's right knee and hears "Hey Doc, can you lend me a dollar?"

Then he puts the stethoscope to the hiker's right thigh and hears "Doc, can you lend me a twenty?"

The Doctor puts down the stethoscope and sighs, shaking his head gently from side to side.
The hiker says "Well, did you find out what's happened to my leg?"
The doc says "Yes; I really hate to tell you this, but your leg is broke in three places!" :jump

Our first section hike of the AT in 1989 started at Amicalola and, counting the approach, went about 30 miles to Woody Gap. After our wives picked us up, they were telling us about a couple they had met, and how impressed they were with our hike. Being new to all things AT, my friend's wife had told them we had hiked from Apalachicola (FL gulf coast), not Amicalola.

We still laugh about that, and in her company the state park is always Apalachicola Falls.

Take Care,

Tim

ARambler
03-17-2005, 14:53
Hiker dressed in orange from head to toe sees a hunter coming around the bend and yells "Don't shoot, I'm not a deer." Bang.
Hiker looks up at hunter and with dying breath asks, "I said I was not a deer, why did you shoot?"
Hunter says, "Oh, I thought you said you WERE a deer."

ARambler
03-17-2005, 15:17
I carried a cell phone the whole way because, 1) all non-hikers (and a few hikers) think it is a good idea for emergency (yes #4 can be an emergency.) 2) No hassle finding an available payphone and long dialing with a calling card. 3) Locked into a contract, so paying anyway. 4) sometimes cool to order a pizza from the 501 shelter in PA. However, I did not bounce my charger to many towns, so I spent the whole hike conserving batteries. I might carry it again, it only weights 1.2 Cliff bars. However, just because I am insane, doesn't mean you have to be.

Thumper 2006
03-17-2005, 15:59
An atheist backpacker is hiking along the trail when all of the sudden a bear appears. Knowing that the bear will surely kill him he calls for God to help him. Without warning God appears and says "Why should I help you, you claim that I do not exist and preach it to other people." The hiker says please God will you help me. So God decides to help the hiker and ask him what he would like him to do. THe Hiker says "God turn the bear into a christian." God grants his will and disappears. As soon as GOd is gone, the bear Kneals down puts his paws together and says "Lord bless this food I am about to receive and may it bring nourishment to my body."

I thought it was pretty funny, dont know if it is as funny to read though.

siouxdog
03-17-2005, 20:30
i've been hiking for 15 years and have never been without a firearm on the trail. it's always loaded and always very accessible. and guess what jack. no one ever knew. if i took your approach i would report all the dope smoking on the trail to the authorities. unlike firearms, dope is illegal everywhere and except for providing for laughs and a good nights sleep has no real benefit. ok i take that back, a good nights sleep on the trail is a incredible benefit. point being there is certainly more people on the trail packing weed and that's there business. yes it's illegal and yes it bothers me a little when i'm around a shelter and someone "burns one down" because i hate the smell but i certainly don't judge the person based on the one fact. if he/she feels the need to pack weed so be it, i won't but i will pack my 380. yes i feel the need and yes i belong on the AT as much as you do.
Anyone considering packing a firearm should be aware that at some point on the Trail, unless they work in law enforcement high on the Federal Level, like the FBI, Justice Department, US Marshall's office, etc.---unless they're at this level, then at some point they'll absolutley be breaking the law if they carry firearms on the A.T. And there is a very good chance that some other hiker that doesn't wanna be around guns will report your packing to the authorities, putting the gun owner at risk of losing the gun, never mind the very real risk of arrest, fine, or even imprisonment.

Nobody wants to see guns out there, or to be around them, and in the vast majority of cases, would be unconfortable hiking with, or camping with someone carrying a firearm. The perception is that anyone who is out there that feels the need to carry a gun doesn't belong on the A.T. or amongst the long-distance hiking community.

The gun will not make you safe unless you have IMMEDIATE access to it at all times; carrying an unloaded or hidden weapon is a waste of time and adds nothing to your self-defense; a gun buried in your pack, or hidden where it can't be seen or easily reached is less than worthless, and becomes a potential threat to you or others if it becomes lost, stolen, or taken away from you.

In short, you don't need a gun on the Trail; in all liklihood you can't legally carry it in many places anyway; nobody will want anything to do with you if you are known to be carrying; you risk arrest and prosecution if you're caught with one; and unless it's right where you can always get at it, it's worthless weight and adds nothing to your safety.

Leave the guns at home.

RU98A
03-17-2005, 20:45
Spoken like a true anti-gun nut Jack. Trying to force you opinion on all others.:bse

Alligator
03-17-2005, 20:47
A hunter spots a grizzly bear 1,000 yards away, but he can't get any closer so he aims his rifle and pulls the trigger. He can see he's hit the bear, so he sets off after it. When he finally catches up to the bear, the bear is clutching his shoulder and says, "Was it you who shot me?"

The hunter says, "Yes."

The bear says, "You need to be taught a lesson." The bear strips off the hunter's clothes, bends him over, and has his way with him.

Several minutes later the hunter struggles to his feet, pulls himself together, and vows to find that bear. He searches through the woods, up hill and dale, and then he spots it 500 yards away, aims his rifle, pulls the trigger, and sets off after it. When he catches up to the bear, the bear says, "Did you shoot me again?"

The hunter, trembling, says, "Yes."

The bear says, "Well, maybe this'll teach you," whereupon it grabs up the hunter, rips off his already tattered clothing, throws him violently to the ground, and really rips him a new one.

The hunter eventually gets to his feet, naked and dazed, and he decides he's going after the bear one more time. He trips through dense underbrush, he trudges through soupy swamps, and he treks across vast valleys, and finally he finds the bear only a hundred yards away, across a small opening. He takes careful aim, holds his breath, and pulls the trigger.

The hunter, already exhausted, sprints up to the bear.

The bear says, "Did you shoot me AGAIN?"

The hunter says, "Yep."

So the bear says, "You didn't really come here to hunt, did you?"

Tripod
03-17-2005, 22:20
good lord, jack, i was kidding about packing! sounded like a direct quote from the anti-gun lobby. no way i'm gonna put 5lbs of metal in my pack, legalities aside. was trying to get advice on cell-phones. never used one, much less in rural places.

Fully loaded Glock 40 cal model 27 (small frame) 1 lb 10.5 oz. (Kinda big, Kinda heavy.)

Fully loaded North American Arms 22 mag. with holster and 5 extra rounds: 10.6 oz. (Only people who carry metal detectors know it's there.)

Tennessee concealed carry permit: 0.1 oz.

Nextel Cell phone: 5.9 oz.

Now I'll admit I am not a thru hiker and will probably never be, but I have hiked a good bit of the TN/NC section of the trail and have grown up in the great outdoors of East Tennessee. On one section hike near Big Bald (just north of Sams Gap) while taking a break, a good-ole-boy who could have been the poster child for the movie "Deliverance", came running at me and I'm sure he didn't want to talk about the Brass-lite stove I was using. If it were not for one of the items listed above, there is a distinct possibility that I wouldn't be writing this now.

With my sincere apologies to the group in general for posting this in an otherwise very funny thread, let me say that if a certain NH resident thinks his on-going rant against legal concealed carry is going to change my mind about what I decide to take to the woods. he is seriously mistaken. There is only one person I have ever met in the woods that has ever seen one of the items mentioned above and because of it he changed his mind and course of action.

I constantly see HYOH mentioned here. I would like to add CWYTIA. Carry what you think is appropriate. Sometimes a person just has to speak their mind....

rickb
03-17-2005, 22:49
There is a big difference in the extra effort to pack (in the concealed weapon sense of the word) on a long distance hike.

I think Jack's comments had less to do with personal judgement (who cares) than with an objective assesment of the realities associated with those difficulties-- both practical and social. And that might just help someone out.

Rick B

Keep your down dry.

Dances with Mice
03-17-2005, 23:04
Three thru-hikers, an AT NOBO hiker, an AT SOBO hiker, and a PCT hiker are in a bar one night having a beer.

The NOBO finishes his beer and suddenly throws his beer mug in the air, pulls out his gun and shoots the glass to pieces. He brags, "NOBOS start the Trail with so much gear that we don’t have to drink from the same glass twice!"

The SOBO hiker drinks his beer, throws his mug into the air, pulls out his gun and shoots the glass to pieces. He says, "Beer mugs are so cheap in Maine that we don't need to drink out of the same one twice either."

The PCT hiker finishes his drink, throws his glass into the air, pulls out his gun and shoots both the SOBO & NOBO hikers dead. He says "There’s so many damn AT hikers we don't need to drink with the same ones twice."

ocourse
03-18-2005, 15:41
Great jokes here! About firearms - everyone knows where I stand on that. I think the logistics of carrying a concealed handgun should be left to the person carrying. Many comments here are from those who really don't have the knowledge to post on this subject, but are just throwing out their opinions - which is OK to a point. Permit holders know the laws and the problems/benefits of carrying better than the few who try to discourage carrying. I encouraged folks to check the number of permit holders in their own states (of course, laws and permits vary by state). Many of us are around a lot of concealed weapons each day, no matter where we are. Criminals carry them too and don't bother with the permit process! Another point is that many of those who choose to carry do so almost everywhere they go - so I don't really think the relative safety of the trail is an issue. Lastly, does anyone really think that a firearm, properly carried, is not accessible? That issue should also be left to the individual carrying.

rickb
03-18-2005, 19:07
"Permit holders know the laws and the problems/benefits of carrying better than the few who try to discourage carrying.."

And then there current/former single-state/multi-state permit holders who try to discourage carrying on a long distance hike.

Permit holders may or may not have a good handle on the social realities of guns on the Trail. I suspect that some long distance hikers do.

FWIW, I'd like to see a thread where permit holders discuss how they deal with their weapons when sleeping in a shelter, going swimming or visiting a Post Office. Or even getting drunk with some Trail buddies. Or a thread which deals with some of the juristictional issues. For those who have carried on a long distance hike, perhaps they can comment whether or not thier decision had any impact on social interactions with other hikers. For some reason, none of tis has ever come up. :-?

But that last joke was brilliant!

Rick B

SGT Rock
03-18-2005, 19:19
FWIW, I'd like to see a thread where permit holders discuss how they deal with their weapons when sleeping in a shelter, going swimming or visiting a Post Office. Or even getting drunk with some Trail buddies. Or a thread which deals with some of the juristictional issues. For those who have carried on a long distance hike, perhaps they can comment whether or not thier decision had any impact on social interactions with other hikers. For some reason, none of tis has ever come up. :-?


I think the reason this doesn't come up is because the thread would most likely degrade into another "you don't need a gun" and "you can't take my rights away from me" thread.

rickb
03-18-2005, 19:22
Nah, its because there are no good answers to those questions.

On a long hike, things are different than on a weekend jaunt.

Doctari
03-18-2005, 20:09
A 3-legged dog limps into a bar and says, I'm lookin' fer the man what shot my Paw." (pa)

Disclaimer: dogs can't really talk.

Dogs can't talk????

You is hangin out at the wrong bars :D

Or drinking the wrong stuff :bse

ocourse
03-18-2005, 23:39
"Permit holders know the laws and the problems/benefits of carrying better than the few who try to discourage carrying.."

And then there current/former single-state/multi-state permit holders who try to discourage carrying on a long distance hike.

Permit holders may or may not have a good handle on the social realities of guns on the Trail. I suspect that some long distance hikers do.

FWIW, I'd like to see a thread where permit holders discuss how they deal with their weapons when sleeping in a shelter, going swimming or visiting a Post Office. Or even getting drunk with some Trail buddies. Or a thread which deals with some of the juristictional issues. For those who have carried on a long distance hike, perhaps they can comment whether or not thier decision had any impact on social interactions with other hikers. For some reason, none of tis has ever come up. :-?

But that last joke was brilliant!

Rick B
Some good questions here. First of all, nobody around a concealed carrier should know about it - it is concealed, right? A firearm carrier can be at risk should a situation develop and a perpetrator has knowledge of a weapon on the scene. No one is the wiser, no alarm from gun-haters, no danger. Swimming, the firearm should be within reach at all times - but there are other options I wouldn't discuss here. Sleeping, you souldn't have any idea whether or not you have been around firearms. Getting drunk is crazy and very immature, I don't do that so I wouldn't know about it. P.O.'s, many lawyers think they don't constitute a banned area.

The Old Fhart
03-19-2005, 00:16
tamstan-“Some good questions here. ………there are other options I wouldn't discuss here…………………..P.O.'s, many lawyers think they don't constitute a banned area.Not a good answer to the question. Although you or some “lawyers” may think that P.O.s, airports, and planes don’t constitute banned areas, what do the lawyers that actually count have to say? What does the law say? Statements like this do not represent the views of responsible, law abiding gun owners. On the contrary, they represent the view of a vigilante, conspiracy minded fringe.

If you truly believe that P.O.s don’t constitute banned areas, please feel free to walk into any major P.O. and yell; “I’m carrying a gun” and see what happens. Until you do that I’d say you’re just blowing hot air. Oh, I forgot, this is a humor thread and this is your attempt at being funny. I’m sorry. :D

ocourse
03-19-2005, 00:53
Not a good answer to the question. Although you or some “lawyers” may think that P.O.s, airports, and planes don’t constitute banned areas, what do the lawyers that actually count have to say? What does the law say? Statements like this do not represent the views of responsible, law abiding gun owners. On the contrary, they represent the view of a vigilante, conspiracy minded fringe.

If you truly believe that P.O.s don’t constitute banned areas, please feel free to walk into any major P.O. and yell; “I’m carrying a gun” and see what happens. Until you do that I’d say you’re just blowing hot air. Oh, I forgot, this is a humor thread and this is your attempt at being funny. I’m sorry. :D
I simply tried to address some of the questions posed. Who's posting about airports and planes? You can post your own information on those topics; I never mentioned them! I commented on P.O.'s. Which lawyers are the ones that actually count? My point is that the lawyers who study the gun laws and are much smarter than I am and have indicated this. It's based on ownership of the property. Entering any place and yelling "I'm carrying a gun" is really dumb because it indicates a threat. By the way, I am very responsible and law abiding.

SGT Rock
03-19-2005, 01:00
Actually, I read through a lot of gun sites in the last hour, and except for one, they all say carrying a gun in a Post office is a bad idea. And the one that said you could, said the law was flawed because another law said you could if you looked at it in the correct light - but the site also had a HUGE disclaimer that any information on it didn't constitute legal advice. :rolleyes:

Anyway, generally federal buildings as a policy say no guns, and as one of the sites (a pro gun and CC site) said, if a place can deny you entry for not wearing a shirt or shoes, well then they can deny you entry for a gun too. Federal parks say it is a no-no, the State of Tennessee (AT runs through that state) denies CC in state parks or any land designated for outdoor recreational activities like a park. Seems like the AT does meet that requirement too. I only know this because I am a law abiding gun owner :D

ocourse
03-19-2005, 01:08
Actually, I read through a lot of gun sites in the last hour, and except for one, they all say carrying a gun in a Post office is a bad idea. And the one that said you could, said the law was flawed because another law said you could if you looked at it in the correct light - but the site also had a HUGE disclaimer that any information on it didn't constitute legal advice. :rolleyes:

Anyway, generally federal buildings as a policy say no guns, and as one of the sites (a pro gun and CC site) said, if a place can deny you entry for not wearing a shirt or shoes, well then they can deny you entry for a gun too. Federal parks say it is a no-no, the State of Tennessee (AT runs through that state) denies CC in state parks or any land designated for outdoor recreational activities like a park. Seems like the AT does meet that requirement too. I only know this because I am a law abiding gun owner :D
We weren't talking about "bad ideas" though, we were talking about law. P.O.'s are not always federal buildings. Check it out and prove me wrong. VA state parks are not off limits, and signs must be posted on off-limit buildings.

SGT Rock
03-19-2005, 01:21
No Post Offices are not federal buildings (not all of them) but the Post Office is a business, and as such retains the right to keep guns off their premises, which they have put into their policy - in writing, in a number of places. And as I said before, they can (and have) decided not to allow it. There are a lot of gun carry folks that feel their rights are infringed, but I have yet to see one violate the law so they can get their day in court. By all means, anyone that is interested in getting arrested and fighting it with a lawyer has my laughing approval to do so.

Also, VA has fairly liberal laws on guns, never said anything about VA, unless you want to talk about SNP, then that is a federal matter.

A good site to look at if anyone is interested in the state laws about this: http://www.packing.org/state/index.jsp

Mountain Dew
03-19-2005, 01:50
Carrying a deadly weapon into a PO is considered a federal offense in all 50 states, 24/7/365. No sign needed. Ignorance of the law is only exceptable outside of the court room. ;)

ocourse
03-19-2005, 10:20
No Post Offices are not federal buildings (not all of them) but the Post Office is a business, and as such retains the right to keep guns off their premises, which they have put into their policy - in writing, in a number of places. And as I said before, they can (and have) decided not to allow it. There are a lot of gun carry folks that feel their rights are infringed, but I have yet to see one violate the law so they can get their day in court. By all means, anyone that is interested in getting arrested and fighting it with a lawyer has my laughing approval to do so.

Also, VA has fairly liberal laws on guns, never said anything about VA, unless you want to talk about SNP, then that is a federal matter.

A good site to look at if anyone is interested in the state laws about this: http://www.packing.org/state/index.jsp
Rock, you are not making sense with your statements, and are making broad assumptions. I never said the Post Office is not a business, or that it does not have the right to prohibit guns - if course it does. I also clearly indicated that I was referring to some (not all) P.O.'s. Not all have legally declared a policy. You haven't checked it out and proved me wrong but you want to argue. I wasn't talking about rights being infringed (another topic!). I don't really care that nothing was said before my post about VA (or the SNP), I am the one who posted info about that state, as that is what primarily concerns me. I never indicated I knew about other state's laws either, and I have indicated that laws vary by state. These discussions seem to degrade to non-gun folks trying to get the pro-carry people to not carry. But I don't find any carriers trying to talk others into carrying! It is a personal choice and is a right under law in areas I refer to. I have never broken a gun law to my knowledge, but I bet everyone here exceeds the speed limit sometime. So who is more likely to break a law? Wanna talk about which is more serious? Compare vehicle wreak statistics to CCW incidents where a firearm is mishandled by a trained carrier.

ocourse
03-19-2005, 10:37
Carrying a deadly weapon into a PO is considered a federal offense in all 50 states, 24/7/365. No sign needed. Ignorance of the law is only exceptable outside of the court room. ;)
You may not be familiar with the law and it's wording. Since airports were mentioned but not clarified - non-secure areas of airport terminals are off limits unless you are a passenger and you have your gun unloaded, in a locked container in your checked luggage, and declare the gun at the check-in counter. If your state's CCW laws do not place post offices or federal property off limits, and the post office has not posted itself as off limits according to the state law's requirements for a property owner to do so (and while all states allow private property owners to post their property off limits, many of them are unclear or don't post), it would seem a CHL holder are lawfully carrying your firearm. The ban on firearms on federal property does not apply to "the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes." A legally concealed handgun would be a lawful purpose, right? However, I am not a lawyer so you can read this as you like.

The Old Fhart
03-19-2005, 10:46
tamstan-“These discussions seem to degrade to non-gun folks trying to get the pro-carry people to not carry.”Au contraire, they always get to the point where some extreme pro-gun advocate “suggests” that they can carry anywhere as a God-given right and take exception when others point out that if they do as they claim, they are breaking the law.

I find it particularly humorous that you would suggest that SGT Rock, Mountain Dew, and myself are “non-gun folks.” I’m surprised you haven’t paraded out the “10 reasons you should carry a gun” like “better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6” or some of your other catchy phrases.

As far as trying to convince you not to carry, nothing could be farther from the truth. All we are suggesting is you cut the BS about “carrying everywhere” and start honoring the intent and purpose of the laws we all must obey.

ocourse
03-19-2005, 11:00
Au contraire, they always get to the point where some extreme pro-gun advocate “suggests” that they can carry anywhere as a God-given right and take exception when others point out that if they do as they claim, they are breaking the law.

I find it particularly humorous that you would suggest that SGT Rock, Mountain Dew, and myself are “non-gun folks.” I’m surprised you haven’t paraded out the “10 reasons you should carry a gun” like “better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6” or some of your other catchy phrases.

As far as trying to convince you not to carry, nothing could be farther from the truth. All we are suggesting is you cut the BS about “carrying everywhere” and start honoring the intent and purpose of the laws we all must obey.
Please quote where I said carrying is a God-given right and point out where I have broken any law. Maybe an extreme advocate will come along and post, but I am positive that I am reasonable, educated, and posting as honestly as I can. You can't look to my actions or to any of my posts and say I do anything illegal. You make strong accusations and absolutely can't back it up. You are just wrong.
I clearly state it is a personal choice to carry. If you don't want to, I would strongly advise against carrying. Wrong again.
I do honor the law; of course couldn't know much about me, but if you did you would undoubtedly agree that I am lawful. About carriers, most (certainly all of the ones I know) have studied the law and know better than most what we can do and what we cannot do legally. Some just post opinions without researching.

ocourse
03-19-2005, 12:15
[QUOTE=All we are suggesting is you cut the BS about “carrying everywhere” and start honoring the intent and purpose of the laws we all must obey.[/QUOTE]
Oh yeah, who is the "we" you refer to? And what is it you refer to about "carrying everywhere"? Some carry everywhere it is legal to do so. How is it not accurate to post that or not legal to do that?

The Old Fhart
03-19-2005, 15:55
Great jokes here! About cell phones - everyone knows where I stand on that. I think the logistics of carrying a cell phone should be left to the person carrying. Many comments here are from those who really don't have the knowledge to post on this subject, but are just throwing out their opinions - which is OK to a point. Cell phone owners know the laws and the problems/benefits of carrying better than the few who try to discourage carrying. I encouraged folks to check the number of cell phone owners in their own states (of course, fees and coverage vary by state). Many of us are around a lot of cell phones each day, no matter where we are. Criminals carry them too and don't bother with the activation process! Another point is that many of those who choose to carry do so almost everywhere they go - so I don't really think the relative safety of the trail is an issue. Lastly, does anyone really think that a cell phone, properly carried, is not accessible? That issue should also be left to the individual carrying.

_____________________
I’ve learned…………..
That a cell phone is an inexpensive way to keep in touch. :D

Percival
03-20-2005, 03:40
Just saw this on another board, and it rings true:

Generally speaking, most people east of the mississippi river doesn't like guns. The farther east you go "doesn't like" turns into pure hatred. Most people west of the mississippi river accept guns as a part of life. The only exception is the republic of california which is run by idiots. They pass so many vague and contradictory gun laws that the police and the state attorney general do not know what to enforce.

SGT Rock
03-20-2005, 11:41
If your state's CCW laws do not place post offices or federal property off limits, and the post office has not posted itself as off limits according to the state law's requirements for a property owner to do so (and while all states allow private property owners to post their property off limits, many of them are unclear or don't post),

Again, there is a law (federal) about bringing firearms into these places. Federal law trumps state law over these issues concerning federal property other areas like school grounds, which I think is a fairly recent federal law which most states already has a law about to begin with. Go onto an Army post to hunt is legal, but you are subject to needing paperwork ahead of time no matter what your CC license is, and it is illegal (unless you are say, an undercover CID) to carry concealed on a military installation. Ignorance of the federal law because you don't see a sign or anything about it conspicuous enough at the entrance :welcome to post is still a violation of the federal law.



it would seem a CHL holder are lawfully carrying your firearm. The ban on firearms on federal property does not apply to "the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes. A legally concealed handgun would be a lawful purpose, right? However, I am not a lawyer so you can read this as you like.[/

Hunting in a post office? Right. You cannot bring your deer rifle into the Post office building because you might see a deer on the way in or out :banana

A CCW license only allows you to carried concealed firearms (some states include other weapons). :eek: It does not allow you to carry where someone else cannot unless otherwise stated by that specific law. Example: I cannot carry a pistol into any store or restaurant that sells alcohol regardless of whether I have a CCW license or not. If I were a cop, then that would be different.
:cool:
Actually, say like in the state of GA, even on state owned hunting land you must have written permission to bring a firearm into state game lands ahead of time no matter what the purpose. Each state makes its own laws about this, so while in one state this would be true, in another it is not. :jump

Smile
03-20-2005, 12:35
There once was time for fun
When hiking required no gun
But now you can choose
and ***** in your shoes....
_____________________________!!

ocourse
03-20-2005, 15:06
TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 44 > § 930

§ 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities


Release date: 2004-08-06

(a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.
(b) Whoever, with intent that a firearm or other dangerous weapon be used in the commission of a crime, knowingly possesses or causes to be present such firearm or dangerous weapon in a Federal facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.
(c) A person who kills any person in the course of a violation of subsection (a) or (b), or in the course of an attack on a Federal facility involving the use of a firearm or other dangerous weapon, or attempts or conspires to do such an act, shall be punished as provided in sections 1111, 1112, 1113, and 1117.
(d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to—
(1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law;
(2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law; or
(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.
(e)
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm in a Federal court facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to conduct which is described in paragraph (1) or (2) of subsection (d).
(f) Nothing in this section limits the power of a court of the United States to punish for contempt or to promulgate rules or orders regulating, restricting, or prohibiting the possession of weapons within any building housing such court or any of its proceedings, or upon any grounds appurtenant to such building.
(g) As used in this section:
(1) The term “Federal facility” means a building or part thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties.
(2) The term “dangerous weapon” means a weapon, device, instrument, material, or substance, animate or inanimate, that is used for, or is readily capable of, causing death or serious bodily injury, except that such term does not include a pocket knife with a blade of less than 21/2 inches in length.
(3) The term “Federal court facility” means the courtroom, judges’ chambers, witness rooms, jury deliberation rooms, attorney conference rooms, prisoner holding cells, offices of the court clerks, the United States attorney, and the United States marshal, probation and parole offices, and adjoining corridors of any court of the United States.
(h) Notice of the provisions of subsections (a) and (b) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal facility, and notice of subsection (e) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal court facility, and no person shall be convicted of an offense under subsection (a) or (e) with respect to a Federal facility if such notice is not so posted at such facility, unless such person had actual notice of subsection (a) or (e), as the case may be.

Please re-read d3 and see how clear it is;
(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.
This is the part that Rock mocked. Someone want to show the federal school law? Federal law in this area does not over-ride state law. Also, in VA, you can carry a firearm where alcohol is served if it is not concealed. Dumb law but that's the way it is. Just un-conceal at the door as you enter. In VA, you have the right to carry unless it is posted otherwise.
The facts are very clear, I wonder if someone still disagrees. I recently posted that in VA, when an officer makes a traffic stop and calls in a vehicle plate, he has the ability to know whither the car is registered to a permitted carrier. Another post was fired back disputing this in a very crude manner. But that is a fact, too. Some just won't admit it is true.

SGT Rock
03-20-2005, 15:19
Look dude, carry your gun into a post office and just prove me wrong. At that point it won't be a subject for debate by two non-lawyers.

Just make sure you don't hide it, let them know you have a lawful and legal purpose.

ocourse
03-20-2005, 15:26
Rock, I don't want this to get to a personal level. I do appreciate you and your work here, but... You obviously didn't read the above post.

Oracle
03-20-2005, 15:26
I love how so many people here advocate "hiking your own hike" and then become stark raving lunatics when someone mentions that they might carry a gun while hiking. Who cares? If they want to carry a gun, let them. It doesn't affect you in any way. And if you say it does, then you're obviously not in control of your mental faculties and should be disregarded. If carrying a gun makes someone happier, on the trail, how is it any different from carrying a bottle of wine? Let them hike their own hike, you hike yours, and don't worry about them. Nothing you're going to say is going to change their mind anyway.

SGT Rock
03-20-2005, 15:31
Rock, I don't want this to get to a personal level. I do appreciate you and your work here, but... You obviously didn't read the above post.

Actually I did read it, and have read it before today as a matter of fact. You must have a lawful purpose, so what is your lawful purpose? A gun permit does not constitute a purpose. Hunting would be a lawful purpose in a place to hunt, shooting at targets would be a lawful purpose on a shooting range, but a PO, or a federal build do not form either of these.

If you go to a federal installation, such as an Army post, you may have a lawful purpose to go to a shooting range, or hunt. But you must still seek such aproval and prove your purpose ahead of time. Go to Ft Polk, Ft Hood, Ft Anywhere and you can ask the Provost Mashall. They are very happy to help you out because the intent is to not get anyone in trouble.

The Old Fhart
03-20-2005, 16:42
tamstam-“About carriers, most (certainly all of the ones I know) have studied the law and know better than most what we can do and what we cannot do legally. Some just post opinions without researching……….

(about P.O.s)My point is that the lawyers who study the gun laws and are much smarter than I am and have indicated this. It's based on ownership of the property. (emphasis mine)

(to SGT Rock)We weren't talking about "bad ideas" though, we were talking about law. P.O.'s are not always federal buildings.

I also clearly indicated that I was referring to some (not all) P.O.'s. Not all have legally declared a policy…... So you have presented an argument that you can carry in some P.O.s because
1) “some” lawyers you know say it’s ok,
2) It's based on ownership of the property and not all P.O.s are federal property,
3) not all P.O.s have a gun policy.
4) About carriers, most have studied the law and know better than most what we can do and what we cannot do legally

Yet in a lengthy post where you quote the law forbidding dangerous weapons in a Federal facility, there is this telling statement:

Section (g)(1)The term “Federal facility” means a building or part thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties. What this section clearly shows is that:
1) the weapons ban has absolutely nothing to do with property ownership,
2) ALL P.O.s have a uniform gun policy,
3) You have not studied the law and have absolutely no idea what the law means.


Then, like pulling a rabbit out of your hat, you then state: The ban on firearms on federal property does not apply to "the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes." A legally concealed handgun would be a lawful purpose, right? The Merriam-Webster dictionary defines Incident as something dependent on or subordinate to something else of greater or principal importance. Going to the P.O. is not “incident” to hunting, it is a separate and distinct activity. There isn’t any game to hunt in the P.O. and picking up or mailing something isn’t part of any hunting routine on this planet.

So bottom line you say you are law abiding but you are trying to justify carrying in places where it is clearly illegal. I think SGT Rock has done a great job debunking your voodoo carry everywhere logic. I do have to apologize to you because I originally thought your posts were part of this humor thread because no one could be stupid enough to believe the crap you’ve posted. I was wrong. :D

oldfivetango
03-20-2005, 18:35
Some good questions here. First of all, nobody around a concealed carrier should know about it - it is concealed, right? A firearm carrier can be at risk should a situation develop and a perpetrator has knowledge of a weapon on the scene. No one is the wiser, no alarm from gun-haters, no danger. Swimming, the firearm should be within reach at all times - but there are other options I wouldn't discuss here. Sleeping, you souldn't have any idea whether or not you have been around firearms. Getting drunk is crazy and very immature, I don't do that so I wouldn't know about it. P.O.'s, many lawyers think they don't constitute a banned area. Where I come from we pretty much think it is OK to pack a concealed
firearm in the United States Post Office AS LONG AS YOU DO NOT WORK THERE!!!!!!
Cheers,
Oldfivetango:D
ps.I failed the Georgia civil service exam because I could not qualify as sharpshooter!

The Old Fhart
03-20-2005, 18:55
Oldfivetango-"Where I come from we pretty much think it is OK to pack a concealed firearm in the United States Post Office AS LONG AS YOU DO NOT WORK THERE!!!!!!"Now that's funny! And you got the thread back to humor as well. Thanks! :)

rickb
03-20-2005, 19:03
When I hiked the AT there were some supermarkets that you couldn't carry in because they sold beer. I thinks that's changed, but not sure.

The serious part of this thread only scratches the surface of the difficulties in carrying on a long distance hike. Apart from the PO you have to deal with laws regarding parks. Is Harper's Ferry a "no carry" zone? .

What I wonder most about is how responsible gun owners deal with maintaining control over thier weapon when sleeping in a shelter or hostel. Granted the AT is not some third-world country where your pack is likely to get rifled while you sleep (I slept with a machete by my side on a beach for protection once only to find it stolen the next AM), but isn't that a concern? If only out of principal?

I know there are no guarantees and no system is perfect, but I would be no more comfortable leaving a hand gun in a hanging pack or on the beach while I swim than I would feel comfortable leaving, say, $10,000 in cash.

The other thing I wonder about is how a hand gun affects on when you hear strange noises out in the woods at night. Do you locate it in the dark? Un holster it? You know, the kind of things you would do if you heard breaking glass in your home? Be honest. Because if you do, you are getting cheated out of some of the fun. But that's your choice.

Rick B

The Old Fhart
03-20-2005, 19:16
Rick, I do like your previous thoughtful post but where this is a humor thread I just gotta comment on this:

rickboudrie-"Is Harper's Ferry a "no carry" zone?'Let's ask John Brown! :)

alanthealan
03-20-2005, 19:32
I's be scrareded of them dark woods. I''s always carry me gun. I be scared of my basement too.

ocourse
03-20-2005, 19:54
When I hiked the AT there were some supermarkets that you couldn't carry in because they sold beer. I thinks that's changed, but not sure.

The serious part of this thread only scratches the surface of the difficulties in carrying on a long distance hike. Apart from the PO you have to deal with laws regarding parks. Is Harper's Ferry a "no carry" zone? .

What I wonder most about is how responsible gun owners deal with maintaining control over thier weapon when sleeping in a shelter or hostel. Granted the AT is not some third-world country where your pack is likely to get rifled while you sleep (I slept with a machete by my side on a beach for protection once only to find it stolen the next AM), but isn't that a concern? If only out of principal?

I know there are no guarantees and no system is perfect, but I would be no more comfortable leaving a hand gun in a hanging pack or on the beach while I swim than I would feel comfortable leaving, say, $10,000 in cash.

The other thing I wonder about is how a hand gun affects on when you hear strange noises out in the woods at night. Do you locate it in the dark? Un holster it? You know, the kind of things you would do if you heard breaking glass in your home? Be honest. Because if you do, you are getting cheated out of some of the fun. But that's your choice.

Rick B

Now these are some good, intelligent questions and I appreciate them. I can answer some, but only from my own experiences. VA has been my only concern in the past and will probably be for some time to come. Here, you can carry openly or concealed into a store that sells beer for off-premises consumption (unless otherwise posted). You must carry openly in a restaurant that sells alcohol.
As for sleeping arrangements, my handgun would not be left in a pack or out of my reach and control. Every now and then there might be a situation where one must disassemble and separate - or use a number of other actions. Careful carriers would never risk a stolen gun by leaving it unattended. As I posted earlier, a concealed handgun is not something anyone is aware of; where it is legal to conceal, people are near many of them regularly and just don't know about it.
Hearing noises at night doesn't affect me any more than any other time. Contrary to what some might say, I can tell you that I don't know even one carrier who is paranoid. It would be rare for me to investigate a noise - I can't ever remember doing that on a trip. Now you wanted honesty, and that is all I have ever posted! I would also like to hear from long distance hikers who carry firearms.

Dances with Mice
03-20-2005, 20:17
ps.I failed the Georgia civil service exam because I could not qualify as sharpshooter!

Whut? Yew tryin uh maken fun uh Jah-juh uh somethun thay-uh, boy?

Alligator
03-20-2005, 20:46
John Brown’s Body (1861)
The original "John Brown Song" that inspired all the rest. A marching song, spontaneously composed, which derived its humor from the fact that a certain little Union Army sergeant had the same name as the infamous abolitionist John Brown.

John Brown’s body lies a-mouldering in the grave (3x)
But his soul goes marching on.

Glory, glory, hallelujah (3x)
His soul goes marching on. He’s gone to be a soldier in the Army of the Lord (3x)
His soul goes marching on.



Glory, glory, hallelujah (3x)
His soul goes marching on. We'll feed old Jeff Davis sour apples (3x)
'til he gets the diarhee.

Glory, glory, hallelujah (3x)
His soul goes marching on.

Probably prefer it to be a "no rope" zone:D .

Alligator
03-20-2005, 20:52
John Brown’s Body (1861)
The original "John Brown Song" that inspired all the rest. A marching song, spontaneously composed, which derived its humor from the fact that a certain little Union Army sergeant had the same name as the infamous abolitionist John Brown.

John Brown’s body lies a-mouldering in the grave (3x)
But his soul goes marching on.

Glory, glory, hallelujah (3x)
His soul goes marching on.

He’s gone to be a soldier in the Army of the Lord (3x)
His soul goes marching on.

Glory, glory, hallelujah (3x)
His soul goes marching on.

We'll feed old Jeff Davis sour apples (3x)
'til he gets the diarhee.

Glory, glory, hallelujah (3x)
His soul goes marching on.

Probably prefer it to be a "no rope" zone:D .

ocourse
03-21-2005, 17:36
Again, there is a law (federal) about bringing firearms into these places. Federal law trumps state law over these issues concerning federal property other areas like school grounds, which I think is a fairly recent federal law which most states already has a law about to begin with.
I was hoping someone else would post this section of law, but here it is. Note the exemptions. Yes permit holders do have rights others don't have. Also federal law is designed so as not to over-ride state laws.

(2)
(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.
(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—
(i) on private property not part of school grounds;
(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;
(iii) that is—
(I) not loaded; and
(II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;
(iv) by an individual for use in a program approved by a school in the school zone;
(v) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in the school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual;
(vi) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity; or
(vii) that is unloaded and is possessed by an individual while traversing school premises for the purpose of gaining access to public or private lands open to hunting, if the entry on school premises is authorized by school authorities.

SGT Rock
03-21-2005, 18:13
I was hoping someone else would post this section of law, but here it is. Note the exemptions. Yes permit holders do have rights others don't have. Also federal law is designed so as not to over-ride state laws.


Actually we (the majority of us) were hoping this could go back to being a thread about humor, not about your intention to try and prove you can carry a gun into a post office, and apparently now a school.

Why not take this "Debate" to a gun site and allow this thread to return to humor?

The Old Fhart
03-21-2005, 18:47
SGT Rock-"Why not take this "Debate" to a gun site and allow this thread to return to humor?"A 21-gun salute to SGT Rock! Oops, sorry, no more guns, my bad. :D

Dances with Mice
03-21-2005, 19:04
Why not take this "Debate" to a gun site and allow this thread to return to humor?

Now THAT'S funny!

JLB
03-22-2005, 01:03
Goddam gun nuts are ruining this place. :D

SGT Rock
03-22-2005, 01:05
LOL, now that is funny JLB! You slay me!

No wait! Don't!

ocourse
03-22-2005, 08:13
Actually we (the majority of us) were hoping this could go back to being a thread about humor, not about your intention to try and prove you can carry a gun into a post office, and apparently now a school.

Why not take this "Debate" to a gun site and allow this thread to return to humor?
I didn't say "into ...a school". You said there was a federal law about schools. I posted the law which clearly exempts carriers permitted by the states. If that isn't enough for you, even that law was ruled (some time ago) unconstitutional by the U.S. Supreme Court. It has been re-written in pretty much the same language. Just setting the record straight. :)

The Old Fhart
03-22-2005, 08:48
Tamatan, Don’t you insecure carry everywhere gun folks have any purpose in life other than the overwhelming need to convince everyone that it is you God-given right to carry on every square inch of this planet? Instead of showing your “claimed” great knowledge of the law, you continually demonstrate your complete ignorance and contempt of the law. If this pitiful display is all you have to offer about hiking (or humor), you’re wasting everyone’s time. Take SGT Rock’s advice and go soil your own sandbox.

ocourse
03-22-2005, 08:59
Tamatan, Don’t you insecure carry everywhere gun folks have any purpose in life other than the overwhelming need to convince everyone that it is you God-given right to carry on every square inch of this planet? Instead of showing your “claimed” great knowledge of the law, you continually demonstrate your complete ignorance and contempt of the law. If this pitiful display is all you have to offer about hiking (or humor), you’re wasting everyone’s time. Take SGT Rock’s advice and go soil your own sandbox.
I really do want to wrap this up. But you are misunderstanding me. I haven't been hostile and immature like you and some others. I stated I follow all laws and that I do know them. Some of you challenged that in a mean-spirited way and I am only correcting misinformation. Isn't that what the forum is for? I could go elsewhere, but what have I done to offend you so much? Your posts are very crude and offensive to me - I hope I haven't been that way to you.

The Old Fhart
03-22-2005, 09:16
Tamstan-“I haven't been hostile and immature like you and some others.”
“Some of you challenged that in a mean-spirited way and I am only correcting misinformation.”
“Your posts are very crude and offensive to me…”Ah, your heartfelt apology makes us all feel better. :D

Tim Rich
03-22-2005, 11:40
Not quite the perfect technology multiuse item, but it's a start:

http://www.safetytechnology.com/cellphonestungun.htm

If someone asks you on the trail to borrow your cell phone, you could hand it over... :D

SGT Rock
03-22-2005, 11:43
Or even better: http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_cell_phone_guns.htm

get your gun and cell phone all in one package!

lumpy
03-23-2005, 00:46
I agree with Rock, if you have a permit to carry a concealed weapon in any one particular state, it does not carry over to another state period unless you are a Federal Officer who is on duty looking for perpetrators or terrorists. If you are caught with a concealed firearm on any Federal land (which includes National Forests), it is considered a felony and you will be treated as a terrorist or a criminal on the lam. I own a bevy of firearms, a member of the NRA, and belong to many hunting and shooting clubs in the U.S. there is abosolutely no reason to carry a concealed firearm on any hiking trail. On the other hand, I have a permit to carry a concealed firearm only in my home state and do so at all times and obey all local, state and federal laws regarding such a permit.

ocourse
03-23-2005, 08:30
I agree with Rock, if you have a permit to carry a concealed weapon in any one particular state, it does not carry over to another state period unless you are a Federal Officer who is on duty looking for perpetrators or terrorists. If you are caught with a concealed firearm on any Federal land (which includes National Forests), it is considered a felony and you will be treated as a terrorist or a criminal on the lam. I own a bevy of firearms, a member of the NRA, and belong to many hunting and shooting clubs in the U.S. there is abosolutely no reason to carry a concealed firearm on any hiking trail. On the other hand, I have a permit to carry a concealed firearm only in my home state and do so at all times and obey all local, state and federal laws regarding such a permit.
Just to set the record straight, you can get non-resident permits to carry a firearm in many states. States also can pick and choose other states's permits to honor. For example, VA honors permits from 20 other states, and 16 other states honor ours. Meaning I can use my VA permit to carry in those states. About federal land, see the federal law above for exemptions. About National Forests, the George Washington and Jefferson National Forests, as an example, encourage hunting (which involves firearms) and make a clear exemption for permit holders who carry a handgun out of hunting season. I can carry there at any time. Check it out!

Oracle
03-23-2005, 08:42
Lumpy, you really don't know what you're talking about. A law has recently been passed that allows all police officers (including off-duty and retired officers) to carry concealed in every State and city in the United States (H.R. 218), including everywhere on the Appalachian and every other trail in this country. Also, most States that have concealed carry laws have reciprocity with other States allowing concealed carry permit holders from other States to carry concealed within their borders. As for carrying firearms on federal land, if that was illegal at all times, there would be a bunch of hunters in jail right now, it's obviously not. I hunt on federal land all the time.

My point is - you are very ignorant of the laws concerning concealed carry, regardless of your claim to "own a bevy of firearms and be a member of the NRA". There are a lot of people who carry concealed on hiking trails. You'll never know who they are unless they choose to tell you. I find the desire to tell people what they can and cannot carry to be pretty ridiculous, especially when you're telling people what is and is not illegal when you are so woefully misinformed yourself.

If someone wants to carry the added weight of a gun and ammunition, more power to them. After about 2 hours into a hike, I'm thinking that my First Aid kit might be too heavy, so I'm not one of them. But I really do think that people should hike their own hike, and if they carry a gun, that is their choice, a choice that doesn't affect me, or you, in any way whatsoever.

SGT Rock
03-23-2005, 08:47
Let it go y'all. We will be debating whether a CCW constitutes license by the state to carry in certain places (even though if you look through the state law it actually says no) and if a federal clause allowing a state law to override it means that all state law override federal law until everyone is tired and blue in the face. No one is being convinced anyone else is smart on this no matter what. The funny part (or more sad part) is none of us is a legal expert. So please take this to a gun site and allow this to return to humor about the AT.

Dances with Mice
03-23-2005, 08:55
...and what could be more humorous than death and religion?
-----------------------------------

A man was walking in the mountains just enjoying the scenery when he stepped too close to the edge of the mountain and started to fall. In desperation he reached out and grabbed a limb of a gnarly old tree hanging onto the side of the cliff.
Full of fear, he assessed his situation.
He was about 100 feet down a shear cliff and about 900 feet from the floor of
the canyon below. If he should slip again he'd plummet to his death. Full of fear, he cries out, "Help me!" But there was no answer. Again and again he cried out but to no avail. Finally he yelled, "Is anybody up there?"
A deep yet serene voice replied, "Yes, I'm up here."
"Who is it?"
"It's God."
"Can you help me?"
"Yes, I can help."
"Please help me then!"
"Let go."
Looking around the man became full of panic. "What?!?!"
"Let go. I will catch you."
"Uh... Is there anybody else up there?"

MOWGLI
03-23-2005, 09:07
Not to be outdone by DWM, I just found this joke on the net. No offense intended to anyone Irish (my daughter Susan included), Catholic (my wife included), or named Nookie (doesn't he play SS for the Red Sox?)


An Irish priest is in a church on Saturday afternoon, hearing confessions...A man walks in and kneels down and begins his confession -Father, it has been two weeks since my last confession. These are my sins: Last night I had sex with Nookie Green.

That is your sin?

Yes, Father.

You are forgiven. Go out and say one "Our Father." The man leaves. Soon, another enters and kneels. Father, it has been one month since my last confession. These are my sins: I have had sex with Nookie Green every week for the last month.

The priest thinks to himself this Nookie Green woman is fairly popular with his male parishioners...

Those are your sins?

Yes, Father.

You are forgiven. Go out and say three "Hail Marys." The man leaves.

Soon, another enters and kneels down. Father, it has been six months since my last confession. These are my sins: I have had sex with Nookie Green twice a week for the last six months.

This time, the priest has to ask - Who is this Nookie Green?

Just a woman I know, Father.

Very well - you are forgiven. Go out and say ten "Hail Marys."

The priest closes the church for the evening and leaves wondering who this Nookie Green woman is...

The next morning, the priest is up in front of his congregation saying mass. The doors fly open in the back of the church and in walks this woman, a tall redhead with long gorgeous hair, a green sequin dress, green sequined heels and a green hat with a long green feather coming from it. She walks straight up the aisle and sits down right in front of the priest, her knees apart.

The priest cannot help but stop and stare. He finally catches himself and leans over to ask the altar boy - Pssssst. Is that Nookie Green?

The altar boy has a look and says, "No, Father, I think it's just the reflection off her shoes."

ocourse
03-23-2005, 09:14
Let it go y'all. We will be debating whether a CCW constitutes license by the state to carry in certain places (even though if you look through the state law it actually says no) and if a federal clause allowing a state law to override it means that all state law override federal law until everyone is tired and blue in the face. No one is being convinced anyone else is smart on this no matter what. The funny part (or more sad part) is none of us is a legal expert. So please take this to a gun site and allow this to return to humor about the AT.
Regulations Specific to National Forest and Game Department Lands

It shall be unlawful to have in possession a bow or gun which is not unloaded and cased or dismantled on all National Forest lands statewide, or on Department-owned lands and on lands managed by the Department under cooperative agreement in counties west of the Blue Ridge Mountains except during the period when it is lawful to take bear, deer, grouse, pheasant, quail, rabbit, raccoon, squirrel, turkey or waterfowl on these lands; and on Department-owned lands and on lands managed by the Department under cooperative agreement in counties east of the Blue Ridge Mountains except during the period when it is lawful to take bear, deer, grouse, pheasant, quail, rabbit, raccoon, squirrel, turkey, waterfowl or migratory game birds on these lands. Except as provided by special concealed handgun permit, it shall be unlawful to possess or transport a loaded gun in or on any vehicle at any time on National Forest lands or Departmentowned lands. “Loaded gun” is defined as a firearm in which ammunition is chambered or loaded in the magazine or clip, when such magazine or clip is found engaged or partially engaged in a firearm. The definition of a loaded muzzleloading gun will include a gun which is capped or has a charged pan. The word “possession” shall include, but not be limited to, having any bow or firearm in or on one’s person, vehicle or conveyance. It is unlawful to chase with a dog or train dogs on National Forest lands or Department-owned lands except during authorized hunting, chase or training seasons that specifically permit these activities on these lands.

SGT Rock
03-23-2005, 09:20
Tamstan,

Are you reading anything I post? Or are you just determined to keep going?

I bet when you go to a hostel you ignore the signs that say "please don't do this" don't you?

Dances with Mice
03-23-2005, 09:20
Helpful hiking hints.
--------------------------------

Get even with the bear who raided your food bag by kicking his favorite stump apart and eating all the bugs.

A hot rock placed in your sleeping bag will keep your feet warm. A hot enchilada works almost as well, but the cheese sticks between your toes.

Modern rain suits made of fabrics that "breathe" enable campers to stay dry in a downpour. Rain suits that sneeze, cough, and belch, however, have been proven to add absolutely nothing to the wilderness experience.

You can duplicate the warmth of a down-filled bedroll by climbing into a plastic garbage bag with several geese.

When camping, always wear a long-sleeved shirt. It gives you something to wipe your nose on.

A two-man pup tent will not hold two men and a pup.

The backpacking guitar of the guy who brought it so he could learn to play during his thru-hike makes excellent kindling. So do recorders, native American flutes, and drums.

The sight of a bald eagle has thrilled campers for generations. The sight of a bald man, however, does absolutely nothing for the eagle.

Bear bells provide an element of safety for hikers in bear country. The tricky part is getting them on the bears.

In an emergency, a drawstring from a parka hood can be used to strangle a snoring shelter mate.

MOWGLI
03-23-2005, 09:23
Helpful hiking hints.
--------------------------------

You can duplicate the warmth of a down-filled bedroll by climbing into a plastic garbage bag with several geese.


So.. thats what it means to be goosed. Yow!

Rainman
04-05-2005, 10:10
Helpful hiking hints.
--------------------------------

Get even with the bear who raided your food bag by kicking his favorite stump apart and eating all the bugs.

A hot rock placed in your sleeping bag will keep your feet warm. A hot enchilada works almost as well, but the cheese sticks between your toes.

Modern rain suits made of fabrics that "breathe" enable campers to stay dry in a downpour. Rain suits that sneeze, cough, and belch, however, have been proven to add absolutely nothing to the wilderness experience.

You can duplicate the warmth of a down-filled bedroll by climbing into a plastic garbage bag with several geese.

When camping, always wear a long-sleeved shirt. It gives you something to wipe your nose on.

A two-man pup tent will not hold two men and a pup.

The backpacking guitar of the guy who brought it so he could learn to play during his thru-hike makes excellent kindling. So do recorders, native American flutes, and drums.

The sight of a bald eagle has thrilled campers for generations. The sight of a bald man, however, does absolutely nothing for the eagle.

Bear bells provide an element of safety for hikers in bear country. The tricky part is getting them on the bears.

In an emergency, a drawstring from a parka hood can be used to strangle a snoring shelter mate.Well done. I laughed 'til I cried. Did you "write" these yourself? You should be a stand up comedian. Please keep them coming.

Rainman
04-05-2005, 12:11
"Firearms on the A.T.

ATC strongly discourages hikers from carrying firearms. In areas of the Trail corridor where hunting is legal, hikers may see hunters carrying firearms. On National Park Service lands outside national recreation areas, possession of firearms by private citizens is illegal. The prohibition applies on many other public lands as well. Where firearms are allowed, state laws on licenses, registration, and related matters govern.

In all areas, the irresponsible use of firearms can be prosecuted under both state and federal laws."

http://www.appalachiantrail.org/hike/hike_info/hunting.html

As a Florida Concealed Weapon License holder and a firm proponent of the Second Amendment, I hope this is "nuff said."