View Full Version : Dog or no dog?!?!
I have been trying to make this very difficult decision of whether or not to bring a dog with me on my thru-hike. She's my housemate's dog... I take care of her during half the week, she sleeps in my bed, I buy her food and treats sometimes... she's my girl, you know. ANYWAY... She has a pack, so she can carry her own weight. She's fit and badass. I don't know if I want the added stress and responsibility. What if she gets too cold or hurts herself...
PLEASE GIVE ME ANY ADVICE YOU HAVE! :-)
ChinMusic
02-21-2008, 01:49
I love taking my dog on short trips (weekend variety, or dayhikes) but I would NOT take him on a thru-hike. The logistics of caring for an animal on a thru needs to be thought out. You will have a harder time getting a hitch. You will have a harder time with regards to hotels, hostels, restaurants, grocery stores, etc, etc. Socially you will always have to be on alert for other hikers who happen not to loveanimals. Your own social interactions can not help but be diminished.
IMO, as much as I love my dog, he would do fine ON the trail but would be too difficult to care for OFF the trail. That said, I would plan to have him with me for short segments when my wife could drop him off and pick him up later.
Appalachian Tater
02-21-2008, 01:51
Leave her at home if you truly care about her. If she loves you, she will be waiting for you when you return.
i'll second chinmusic, and you don't sound sure about the responsibility/extra work...
I do support well trained dogs being on the trail, but not for long times w/ only rare exceptions. I wouldn't take my dog out for longer than a month ever again, my last section, i expected to only be out 3-4 wks, but i didn't take her because i knew i could be out longer, and i was. but every friendly dog i came across got an excellent doggie massage (i missed giving those to my girl)
read through the dog section, there is alot of good info about dog's on the trail, if you aren't 100% sure you want to take and can handle the responsibility of the dog, then don't.
I don't think you can take a dog thru the Smokey Mountain National Park, so you will have to deal with kenneling her and picking her up. The thru hikers can advise you on this. We did see thru's with dogs and they did get those little footies for their feet. All the dogs were friendly, but very lean after over 200 miles when I saw them in late March. As a dog owner I would think this would be really hard on antything but a young dog, but again, I defer to the ones that have done a thru with a dog. I have hiked sections with a dog, she was a perfect hiking dog. A total mutt. Obedient, good natured, great stamina and healthy. But you still need to be careful and make sure dogie stays out of other people's sites and space. I would definitely give it a go with the right dog.
Lone Wolf
02-21-2008, 02:31
leave her home. but if you bring her, you carry all her stuff. no pack for the dog
minnesotasmith
02-21-2008, 03:13
1) You will make your hike harder and less pleasant.
2) You will likely send your dog home before Erwin, even before the Smokies, as dogs mostly don't physically hold out for 4-digits of LD hiking straight.
3) You run a real chance of losing your dog from it running off when loose.
4) Your hike will be more expensive, from having to skip virtually all the hostels in favor of the few motels that allow dogs, pet deposits at them, boarding and shuttles for dogs around Smokies and Baxter, possible vet bills as your dog's feet, etc., get beaten up (or he finds a skunk or porcupine), not being able to use Greyhound to get back home after your hike, and possibly reimbursing other hikers for their food or gear he damages (not a rare occurrence at all).
5) As you cannot generally legally bring a dog in the Smokies or Baxter (unless you are blind & it's a seeing-eye dog, or unless you repeatedly lie your tail off to LEOs and claim it's a "therapy" dog), your dog can't thruhike anyway, just section most of the way with you at best.
6) There WILL be weather in which your dog is miserable, worse off than you (who can freely add or subtract clothing at will). Cold weather if thin-coated, hot weather if thick-coated. A thruhike normally includes at least one season a given dog is not suited to hike in and live in in a trail environment.
7) You will miss much of the social part of the Trail by not being able to go to the bulk of hostels and trail shelters (if you go to latter, you won't be arrested or thrown out, but you WILL be regarded as an @**hole who will be hated by many strangers).
8) You will likely be considerably less LNT, with dog chasing/barking at wildlife and other dogs, him getting in water sources, his likely digging, etc. Some people don't care about this (being as LNT as possible); I hope you do.
The dog will be safe and happy at home, and will be there to see you when you get back.
Blue Jay
02-21-2008, 04:15
leave her home. but if you bring her, you carry all her stuff. no pack for the dog
Exactly, imagine if someone dropped a pack on you that you could not adjust or even take it off when it started to hurt you. I always try to explain that gently to the dog person and actually sometimes they get it, IF they care about the dog. Most do not.
I have been trying to make this very difficult decision of whether or not to bring a dog with me on my thru-hike. She's my housemate's dog... I take care of her during half the week, she sleeps in my bed, I buy her food and treats sometimes... she's my girl, you know. ANYWAY... She has a pack, so she can carry her own weight. She's fit and badass. I don't know if I want the added stress and responsibility. What if she gets too cold or hurts herself...PLEASE GIVE ME ANY ADVICE YOU HAVE! :-)
NO DOG!
Blue Jay
02-21-2008, 06:40
I didn't notice before, but I think this was a troll question:banana.
Check out the dog forum for many tips...
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=439
...then leave the dog home. :)
I take a great, high energy trail dog with me on day hikes and truck camping weekends. I can't imagine even (long) section hiking with him, though. He (and his breed in general) drinks much more than the 'normal' dog. He doubles his food intake when hiking because he at least trebles my miles. I have trouble keeping weight on him in the summer when we take daily 5-10 miles hikes.
There is no way I can carry enough food and water for him. Think about the dog's welfare. I know how you feel, though. I am MUCH happier when he is along.
Frau
It sounds like you haven't done much backpacking with your dog. I'd leave her at home as you are unsure about the extra responsibility.
I did a thru hike with a friend and her two dogs and we had a great time.
I'm starting off my hike with my dog but she spends almost every weekend and at least one day during the week on a trail and is incredibly well behaved. I don't anticipate finishing with her and the second I see her starting to become uncomfortable or have any health issues, she's going home to lounge on the couch until I get back. She's by my side all day every day, so I couldn't imagine at least starting with her.
And I'll be carrying all her food and water.
If you bring a dog out there, please make sure they have an excellent recoil when called.
leave the dog at home... please
FishBone
02-21-2008, 09:19
see www.trailjournals.com (http://www.trailjournals.com) / "doggiebag" for his account of caring for his dog that got bitten by a rattlesnake in Pennsylvania. Aldo survived but took a lot of care and concern by Max, aka doggiebag.
My $0.02: leave the dog at home.
superman
02-21-2008, 09:24
I have been trying to make this very difficult decision of whether or not to bring a dog with me on my thru-hike. She's my housemate's dog... I take care of her during half the week, she sleeps in my bed, I buy her food and treats sometimes... she's my girl, you know. ANYWAY... She has a pack, so she can carry her own weight. She's fit and badass. I don't know if I want the added stress and responsibility. What if she gets too cold or hurts herself...
PLEASE GIVE ME ANY ADVICE YOU HAVE! :-)
You need a ton more information than you're going to get from this thread. Taking a dog on a thru hike can be great or a nightmare. The key to success is a hell of a lot of preperation. A pre-hike would be desirable. If the dog isn't trained for the trail and completely socialized to all people and critters don't take it.
wrongway_08
02-21-2008, 09:35
I want to bring my boy along also but he is young and still learning trail manners. I do plan to get him for 2 weeks in the middle, maybe this is something that might work for you also?
This way your girl gets to tag along and enjoy some of the trail with you.
Well if you are serious about doing a thru-hike consider the following: Only about 20% of those who start finish. If you take a dog I would estimate it drops another 10%. You have a much better chance of finishing, without a dog.:-?
AT-HITMAN2005
02-21-2008, 16:15
NO DOG!
double ditto
DesertMTB
02-21-2008, 16:18
I got no problem with dogs as long as they are well behaved and don't slobber on me.
SouthMark
02-21-2008, 16:33
Exactly, imagine if someone dropped a pack on you that you could not adjust or even take it off when it started to hurt you. I always try to explain that gently to the dog person and actually sometimes they get it, IF they care about the dog. Most do not.
Thanks for the insight and you too LW. I'm sorry to say I never looked at it that way but it makes perfect sense. Just bought my dog a pack but have not used it yet. Look for it on ebay now.
Oh and I guess you can teach and old dog a new trick.
Jack Tarlin
02-21-2008, 16:40
If you want a ridiculously large percentage of your time on the trip revolving around your dog and its care; if you want to be limited on where you can stay or where you can go; if you want to skip all sorts of activities with others because you must stay with your pet; if you want to alienate some of your fellow hikers; if you want to take the chance of having your pet lost or seriously injured.....well, if any or all of this sounds good, by all means bring your dog.
It's your hike. Be informed and be aware of the risks involved, but don't let anyone else tell you how to do your hike. Nobody on here owns the trail and nobody can tell you how to enjoy your hike. Show others on the trail the same respect you'd want if you didn't like dogs around and it will probably be returned.
And be prepared to send your dog home early or not finish. It's just part of the risk of sharing one of your life's greatest experiences with your best friend.
Jack Tarlin
02-21-2008, 17:30
Nobody's telling anyone what to do, Pitt.
She asked about pros and cons in regards to bringing a dog, and that's exactly what she's getting.
Nobody's telling anyone what to do, Pitt.
She asked about pros and cons in regards to bringing a dog, and that's exactly what she's getting.
I'm not trying to stir the pot but I'd like to know your personal experience with backpacking with a dog. You're quick to impose your opinions but are they based on your own experiences or just observations of other hikers with dogs?
Jack Tarlin
02-21-2008, 17:59
My opinion is based both on observation of scores of hiker dogs and their opwners, AND on my own trips with dogs. Most recently, I spent several months this past spring and summer hiking in a group of folks that included several dogs. It's a lot more work than most folks think.
And my opinion is not being "imposed" on anyone, any more than yours is.
http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.jkLXJ8MQKtH/b.795337/k.9784/Hiking_with_Dogs.htm
There is also a link to an article written by a thru-hiking vet.
My opinion is based both on observation of scores of hiker dogs and their opwners, AND on my own trips with dogs. Most recently, I spent several months this past spring and summer hiking in a group of folks that included several dogs. It's a lot more work than most folks think.
And my opinion is not being "imposed" on anyone, any more than yours is.
Shallow brooks are noisy.
Shallow brooks are noisy.
Loose lips sink ships!
Choosy Mothers choose Jif!
One if by land, two if by sea.
and finally, don't forget...
It softens hands while it does dishes!
Johnny Thunder
02-21-2008, 18:16
Umm...
Still waters run deep
The early bird gets the worm
Have you ever danced with the devil in the pale moonlight?
Jack Tarlin
02-21-2008, 18:18
Phreak:
You asked me if my opinion was based on observation of others or on my own travels with dogs.
You didn't care for my answer, so all you can do is insult me?
Um, sorry, Phreak, but it's not me that's being shallow here.
Lone Wolf
02-21-2008, 18:18
he must be a dog owner
If you are planning a thru hike for this year, and are just now asking this question, the answer is no, don't bring your dog. You're not prepared and neither is the dog. I have hiked with someone with a dog and it is not an easy responsibility. And this was a good trail dog. I've seen many dogs that are doing a thru and some looked like they were ready to drop dead from starvation. What kind of dog is it? If it gets injured, could you carry it out? If it's a small dog, could it do some of the rock climbs required? Is it long haired? What happens when it gets wet and muddy? If it shakes it's wet, smelly, mud all over my sleeping bag, you're gonna hear some not so nice words from me. If it pees on my sleeping bag or tent, you just bought it. If it is off leash and comes running at me, I'll use the pointy end of my hiking pole to keep it off me. I'm not the only one that feels this way, and although I probably wouldn't do these things (except the paying for my stuff if it pees on it) there are many, many hikers that will. Frankly, unless the dog has training and intelligence of a border collie, I wouldn't bring it. That's just my opinion. I've seen all kinds of dogs from a dachsund to a great dane out there that have made great trail dogs. I've toyed with the idea of bringing a dog on the trail, but I do sections, the wear and tear on a dog on a thru is tremendous.
It's totally up to you whether or not to bring it, but be advised that your hike will be drastically different because of the dog, and not always in a good way.
he must be a dog owner
I count at least 4 dogs in his gallery.
No dog, leave him at home. :)
[/B][/I]It softens hands while it does dishes!
Hey Madge! You're soaking in it.
(In honor of our New England roots)
Time to make the doughnuts! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iY0Ecn393qI)
I count at least 4 dogs in his gallery.
I own 2 dogs.
Takes two to tango.......
Dogs that don't thru hike are apt to live longer. It's just plain hard on them, like it is people.
lot of frustration yet hilarity in this thread:D
Nobody's telling anyone what to do, Pitt.
She asked about pros and cons in regards to bringing a dog, and that's exactly what she's getting.
I hear ya Jack. I was just referring to the "NO DOGS!" and "Please don't bring your dog" type posts. I'd hate to see someone's hike get influenced negatively by the simple words of another over the internet.
"But Pittman, what if their DOG influences someone else's hike negatively?"
----- well than their dog should probably not be out there or they should hike/tent away from everyone else. Faith in humanity leads me to believe that those that bring their dogs out there will know if it's a good idea and the moment they realize it's not going well for either themselves, other hikers or most importantly, the dog, they'll change their plans for the better.
You can't get a good look at a t-bone by sticking your head up a bull's ass, but I'd rather take the butchers word for it. \m/
The Weasel
02-21-2008, 18:58
Like hope, the topic of "dogs on the AT" springs eternal. As does Jack Tarlin's ire at those who don't use the words he wants them to in responding to his pronouncements ex cathedra.
But he's right, and more: Bluntly put, dogs don't belong on a thru hike. I take Chase The Incredible Rocket Dog with me on some trips (where dogs are permitted), but I still say that Jack's right. Here's the "more":
1) You're going to keep a dog on a leash for 5 months on a constant basis. Yes, Sparky is well behaved, and yes, she will never run away. In the woods, they get stressed and behave badly (just as we do) and they get the scent of an animal and run off and get lost in the woods. Trust me. I've seen "good" dogs get difficult and better dogs run off. It's a death sentence for the latter. Do you want to risk hurting others? Do you want to risk killing your dog? Do you want, to prevent either of those, to keep it leashed for 5 months, 24/7? If you answer yes to any one of those, bring your dog. Otherwise, don't.
2) Dogs aren't built for long trails. I don't care how much you love Jack London, Balto was fiction and the Iditarod isn't the AT. Your dog will suffer serious foot and tendon injury, and you won't know it until she/he goes lame. "Thank you, Master." And she'll still love you.
3) Your dog isn't welcome with many people. It will rain and you will want to put it in the shelter. I don't want to sleep next to a wet dog. Sorry. I don't want it nuzzling my food. I don't want to trip over its leash. I don't want to worry about whether it will stress out or not. I didn't invite you to bring your dog. Don't bring it until I, and everyone else, in the shelter, invite you to bring it. In advance.
I'm sure there are people who have thru'd with their dogs, and I'm sure they can tell you how wonderful it was. Doggy lived through it, so she must have been happy, right? But they won't tell you about the people who never see their dogs again, or the people that avoided them because they didn't want to be forced to hike with your dog.
Sorry. No one is going to stop you, but it's a bad idea. Chase agrees. I just asked him.
TW
ChinMusic
02-21-2008, 18:59
Thanks for the insight and you too LW. I'm sorry to say I never looked at it that way but it makes perfect sense. Just bought my dog a pack but have not used it yet. Look for it on ebay now.
Oh and I guess you can teach and old dog a new trick.
Don't let ONE poster make you feel like you are a bad dog owner for having your pet carry a pack. Dogs do just fine with packs as long as they are adjusted well.
Here is an article from a Vet saying just such: http://www.appalachiantrail.org/atf/cf/{D25B4747-42A3-4302-8D48-EF35C0B0D9F1}/fido.pdf
I have a dog. He carries a pack and does just fine. In fact he now gets all excited when he sees me pick it up. He knows the fun is about to start.
That said, a thru-hike with a dog, in my opinion, is not a good thing. As I said earlier in the thread, I take my dog on many short trips but would not take him on a thru.
Nearly Normal
02-21-2008, 19:02
Yep,
"Badass" is the kind of dog to take.
Everyone will think it's terrific.
Programbo
02-21-2008, 20:07
I`ll take this off the main topic a bit, but since it seems the question has already been handled well enough......Aside from dogs what other animals have people thru-hiked with?..Knowing what I do about people I would have to assume someone has taken a cat..snake..ferret..lizard..whatever along
Jack Tarlin
02-21-2008, 20:14
I know of two people who've hiked with kitties. Dunno if they finished or went all the way with them, but I know they did hundreds of miles of the Trail at least.
CrumbSnatcher
02-21-2008, 20:15
I have been trying to make this very difficult decision of whether or not to bring a dog with me on my thru-hike. She's my housemate's dog... I take care of her during half the week, she sleeps in my bed, I buy her food and treats sometimes... she's my girl, you know. ANYWAY... She has a pack, so she can carry her own weight. She's fit and badass. I don't know if I want the added stress and responsibility. What if she gets too cold or hurts herself...
PLEASE GIVE ME ANY ADVICE YOU HAVE! :-)if you live in asheville,N.C. then you could start with the dog and have it picked up if it wasnt working out. or better yet. start without the dog to get a feel of the trail to see what its like and decide if toto would be ok. you would need to shuttle around the smokies anyway,most reach the smokies around day17-19. hiking with a dog is alot more work,like jack said. but it can be very rewarding. i do not believe in dog packs.it would be great for the dog if you'd carry all the gear and food. my dog bear was a great trailmate6,000+A.T.miles. throw the dog pack away. have a great hike:banana
Nearly Normal
03-02-2008, 17:50
Be careful and in control of your canine.
http://www.thepetcenter.com/gen/pq.html
Nightwalker
03-02-2008, 22:00
I'm gonna take my dog for just a few hundred miles after the Smokies. She loves to hike even more than I do, but I'm not going to go through the crap of dealing with her the whole trip. It would also, probably, take a lot of her love of the hike away to do it for the whole trip.
Having said that, a lot of folks have taken their dogs all of the way that they legally can, and the dogs did well. A lot have also had really bad times due to the extra difficulties. Some dogs even have multiple thrus. Heald's Annie had over 15,000 miles under her pack before she passed at 15 years old (I think. Maybe just 14.)
My dog doesn't like a pack, so I carry all of her stuff. Just one more thing to think about. Some breeds handle the pack well and some don't.
It's totally up to you. Some people here are biased and some aren't, so you have to take all of these opinions with a pound of salt. One thing to think about however, is that Jack has seen more of most situations on the trail than most of us have. I've never had anyone react badly to my dog, but I've never put her in a shelter. My tent fits us both, I dry her off when she's wet, and she has her own coat and fleece blankie. It works well for us, but I still won't take her the whole way, mainly because I want to enjoy myself more than I would if I had to be responsible for her the whole time.
Eventually, it's up to you. Many of these opinions from folks are honest and good; some of them are from people that don't even seem to like people, much less dogs! I wouldn't do it, but that's just me.
ChinMusic
03-02-2008, 22:11
I think Nightwalker's post is very balanced. As I posted earlier in the thread my feelings are very similar. Fortunately for me, my dog loves his pack. If I went into the gear room and he saw it he would go nuts with excitement.
Mongoose2
03-02-2008, 22:34
I'm not trying to stir the pot but I'd like to know your personal experience with backpacking with a dog. You're quick to impose your opinions but are they based on your own experiences or just observations of other hikers with dogs?
Jack is right. I love dogs, however, they can be tough to deal with on the trail. I have had some good, but mostly not so good experiances. The last one was a very happy dog that rolled around in some hiker poop, what an incredible smell!! And the hiker tried to stay in the shelter that night!!
I'm not saying that all dogs are bad on the trail, but they can be challenging!!
Hiking with your dog is all about your mentality - decide why you are hiking. It is true that hiking with your dog diminishes your chances of a complete thru-hike. If your main goal is to stick to a strict schedule and complete the trail at a given time, you may want to re-think bringing the dog. Also, if you really care what people think of you for the full 15 seconds that they pass you (or you pass them) then you shouldn't bring the dog.
Me? I don't care about either of those things. I don't complain about peoples' loud, smelly children... And I don't complain about other people in general being loud and smelly. Many dogs are much better behaved than many people. Make sure you know your dog. Also, I'm in it for the love of the hike. I have only until the end of Sept to finish. Whether I've completed it or not, I finish then. I would much rather complete 1,859 miles with my best friend than 2,176 without. Again, know your dog... if it's having a hard time, you need to do the responsible thing and take it home or slow your hike.
And cover all your bases - have plans for everything. You'll need to have your dog shuttled around 2 places in the trail. Also, remember the calorie intake will need to be much higher. Have a plan to get him home in case he can't make it. You may even want to get a tracking collar. Remember animal deterants (bear spray, noise makers, etc).
See you on the trail (with my dog)!
Wise Old Owl
03-02-2008, 23:32
On my thru hike this year, I am going to bring my prized Pachyderm “Pinky” because Pinky wants to see the world and the AT.
He is built for long trails, ask my friend Hannibal, unlike his ancestors today he is drip dry and does well around the shelters, Except when Pinky farts or belches, I had a hard time getting the shelter roof back on after that one time.
He is great with other hikers! He is really well balanced, and loves to pack and carry other’s packs. Loves the balds, and keeps them clear, I had a great time with Pinky in Shenandoah; the ranger was scratching his head when I offered to “do” the grass. (No smok’in involved)
Although Pinky is well behaved I really do have a problem with shelter mice and other people's Gorp droppings around the shelters. Pinky runs from shelter mice, sometimes trampling others that don’t do well around animals, like Wolfs, Weasels, Hitman, and sometimes Taters!
He wins the academy award for Pack Sniffer!
Oh if you have extra Gorp with peanuts he will love you for it!
Here is a picture of Pinky & me and I know you are all going to make him welcome!
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg275/MarkSwarbrick/evan-1.jpg
Dirtygaiters
03-12-2008, 22:59
I have been trying to make this very difficult decision of whether or not to bring a dog with me on my thru-hike. She's my housemate's dog... I take care of her during half the week, she sleeps in my bed, I buy her food and treats sometimes... she's my girl, you know. ANYWAY... She has a pack, so she can carry her own weight. She's fit and badass. I don't know if I want the added stress and responsibility. What if she gets too cold or hurts herself...
PLEASE GIVE ME ANY ADVICE YOU HAVE! :-)
You'd be surprised how cold a dog can get and still be comfortable. Being derived from arctic animals, like all animals from cold parts of the world, they can sustain significant drops in body temperature that would be life threatening to tropical animals like us humans. However, dogs do not like to walk day in and day out. It's not in them (it's not in humans either, really, which is why so many thru hikers drop out before completion). Sure, your dog will go along with you because she is your dog, but that doesn't mean that she wants to.
If you do bring the dog, just please keep it on a leash, for everybody's sake.
Darryl G
03-12-2008, 23:42
My pet peeve with dogs on the trail is when owners let them muddy up the spring.....grrrrrrrrrrr. Otherwise well behaved dogs don't bother me, and I can certainly understand stand why a solo hiker, especially a woman, would want to bring their dog along.
LOL, reminds me of when I spooked a woman hiker coming up to a shelter one time in the Smokies and she screamed....no way that dog was letting me into the shelter after that...well until she got comfy with me. I didn't realize why she freaked out until later....I had a brand new black wool hat on and it was raining, sleeting and snowing and the dye from the hat had run down my face, staining it and my neck, lol. That and one whole side of me was totally encrusted in snow and ice, including my long hair and bare legs. I must have looked like i just stepped out of a horror movie. BTW...the weather forcast at the dam was for a 30 percent chance of rain, woke to 18 inches of snow, hehe.
bswilarmy
03-12-2008, 23:59
before my boy (st Bernard) died he went on EVERY hike with me. he was well behaved didnt chase wild animals and was a good early warning device. he was my heart and we had loads of fun on the trail. if your dog will cause problems train her better then take her hiking. if she is trained now screw the rest of these negative people and take her. there is ONLY ONE thing better on a trail besides a good dog and that is a GOOD WOMAN!!! dogs deserve the beauty of nature too.
LIhikers
03-13-2008, 17:28
To backpack with a dog, and to do it right, takes a lot of extra work, IMO. You'll have to worry about resupply for you and the pooch, you'll have to carry a tent both of you can fit in, you'll have to get your dog across stiles, farm fields with live stock, rivers and streams and busy roads with a lot of traffic. You'll find that your furry friend won't be welcome in a lot of businesses or even by some other hikers, not to mention some of the parks the trail goes through. You'll have to watch after your dog's health as well as your own and make sure that fiddo doesn't affect other people's health and well being.
Let me suggest you go out for a backpacking trip of up to a week with the dog and then when yo uget back reconsider if you want the extra responsability during a thru hike. All of that said, my wife and I have had our dog with us for week long trips and had a great time with him, but we decided that we wouldn't want the extra work for more than a week at a time.
LIhikers
03-13-2008, 17:31
Here's a photo of my wife with our dog in New York. Notice he's on a leash and that's the way he always is when we're out hiking
I totally agree with bswilarmy, and i am surprised at all the negative dog-speak from our nature-loving friends. Dogs are God's beautiful creatures and they are most at home in nature. My husband, Labdad, and I (MotL stands for Mother of two Labs), set out to thru-hike in March of 2006, with our beautiful chocolate labs (we met when they introduced us 4 yrs ago). We hiked part of the trail with them and part without. BY FAR, the part hiked with them was the most enjoyable. Their enthusiasm was contagious, and they made all the pain worth it. We made it about halfway in '06 but are leaving to finish in 4 weeks.
Also, the time our pups spent on the trail was probably their favorite time in life. Sadly, our Beloved Cooper passed away in September 07. We are heartbroken, but the memories we have of him hiking with us have been so helpful in our grief, knowing how much he loved that time, not sitting around in the 'burbs, but just being a dog as he was created to be!
Frisco will accompany us on our hike. Everytime we get out her backpack, she jumps up and down, sniffs it, and runs to the front door. Bring the dog!!! :)
Tipi Walter
03-13-2008, 19:46
I totally agree with bswilarmy, and i am surprised at all the negative dog-speak from our nature-loving friends. Dogs are God's beautiful creatures and they are most at home in nature. My husband, Labdad, and I (MotL stands for Mother of two Labs), set out to thru-hike in March of 2006, with our beautiful chocolate labs (we met when they introduced us 4 yrs ago). We hiked part of the trail with them and part without. BY FAR, the part hiked with them was the most enjoyable. Their enthusiasm was contagious, and they made all the pain worth it. We made it about halfway in '06 but are leaving to finish in 4 weeks.
Also, the time our pups spent on the trail was probably their favorite time in life. Sadly, our Beloved Cooper passed away in September 07. We are heartbroken, but the memories we have of him hiking with us have been so helpful in our grief, knowing how much he loved that time, not sitting around in the 'burbs, but just being a dog as he was created to be!
Frisco will accompany us on our hike. Everytime we get out her backpack, she jumps up and down, sniffs it, and runs to the front door. Bring the dog!!! :)
Thanks for a good post. Reminds me of backpackers in the 1970s who hiked for the love of it and didn't worry about trivial matters like dogs or the Tent Police.
My dog was born in 1995 and raised in a tipi on a high mountain ridge and goes out on every backpacking trip with his loaded pack and a brain full of winter tipi memories. My opinion? I think dogs should all be welcomed on the Appalachian Trail, I'm just not so sure the people that accompany them should be allowed.
Well, normally I would not agree with Minnesota Smith on almost anything. But in this case he is right on. Leave the Damn dog at home!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dogs are at best an annoyance
the hard terrain of the AT is not kind to pets
They do NOT belong in the wilderness
the dog may even attract a bear to you
In any case, dogs are probitted (and rightly so) from at least two Parks, ie Shenandoah National Park and Baxter State Park. also from GSMNP. So that would pose you a big inconvenience. YES, the Rangers will stop you if you try to sneek him in, especially in Baxter.
At best I have tolerated hikers with dogs. They really don't belong in a shelter. And if you want to lose friends quick, especially with this hiker, just try having a loud barking dog at a shelter with hikers.
Have I gotten my point across?
Don't bring it!
DavidNH
Well, normally I would not agree with Minnesota Smith on almost anything. But in this case he is right on. Leave the Damn dog at home!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dogs are at best an annoyance
the hard terrain of the AT is not kind to pets
They do NOT belong in the wilderness
the dog may even attract a bear to you
In any case, dogs are probitted (and rightly so) from at least two Parks, ie Shenandoah National Park and Baxter State Park. also from GSMNP. So that would pose you a big inconvenience. YES, the Rangers will stop you if you try to sneek him in, especially in Baxter.
At best I have tolerated hikers with dogs. They really don't belong in a shelter. And if you want to lose friends quick, especially with this hiker, just try having a loud barking dog at a shelter with hikers.
Have I gotten my point across?
Don't bring it!
DavidNH
Bravo! Do you feel better now? :rolleyes:
AlwaysHiking
03-13-2008, 21:09
Well, normally I would not agree with Minnesota Smith on almost anything. But in this case he is right on. Leave the Damn dog at home!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dogs are at best an annoyance
the hard terrain of the AT is not kind to pets
They do NOT belong in the wilderness
the dog may even attract a bear to you
In any case, dogs are probitted (and rightly so) from at least two Parks, ie Shenandoah National Park and Baxter State Park. also from GSMNP. So that would pose you a big inconvenience. YES, the Rangers will stop you if you try to sneek him in, especially in Baxter.
At best I have tolerated hikers with dogs. They really don't belong in a shelter. And if you want to lose friends quick, especially with this hiker, just try having a loud barking dog at a shelter with hikers.
Have I gotten my point across?
Don't bring it!
DavidNH
Not sure losing you as a friend would be a big loss anyhow... but wanted to point out that SNP DOES allow dogs.
http://www.nps.gov/shen/planyourvisit/pets.htm
Tipi Walter
03-13-2008, 21:16
Not sure losing you as a friend would be a big loss anyhow... but wanted to point out that SNP DOES allow dogs.
http://www.nps.gov/shen/planyourvisit/pets.htm
Yeah, and I think the Smokies has a bunch of coyotes roaming free.
Two Speed
03-13-2008, 21:22
Yeah, and I think the Smokies has a bunch of coyotes roaming free.Still illegal to bring your dog into the Smokies.
Of course it makes you wonder what the ranger would do about it if your dog happened to be a coyote. :D
minnesotasmith
03-13-2008, 23:44
.. but wanted to point out that SNP DOES allow dogs.
Yes, on leashes -- or left at home.
=========================================
P.S., about dogs in nature... They are domestic animals, and belong in domesticity, that is, on private property. Wild canines like coyotes -- in the wild. No one here owns a wild canine, though, so guess where their animals belong?
Wise Old Owl
03-14-2008, 00:29
When I first read this rude thread it was in the General Section, since I posted as a joke "Pinky" it was suddenly moved to Hiker Specific Topics. It died there for a while until it was rediscovered.
We are all very good at hiking & Backpacking because we are focused on enjoying the great outdoors. Some of us are into seeing nature, others are into pets. Yes I have several dogs and I do leave them at home. One is being groomed for section hiking, and other trails. I firmly believe "Rugby" is unsuited for a thru hike and I too would leave him behind.
But for some of you to jump on a soapbox and post some really mean stuff about dogs in general really bothers me. In person I am sure you are all fine people. But let's face it some of the posts in this thread border on rude, and although there is no law about being rude, it still says something about you as an individual. I will be quick to point out, I too have made some mistakes here on WB, but you guys really need to lighten up. I thought WB was about helping people with the sport of Backpacking.
minnesotasmith
03-14-2008, 00:36
When I first read this rude thread it was in the General Section, since I posted as a joke "Pinky" it was suddenly moved to Hiker Specific Topics. It died there for a while until it was rediscovered.
We are all very good at hiking & Backpacking because we are focused on enjoying the great outdoors. Some of us are into seeing nature, others are into pets. Yes I have several dogs and I do leave them at home. One is being groomed for section hiking, and other trails. I firmly believe "Rugby" is unsuited for a thru hike and I too would leave him behind.
But for some of you to jump on a soapbox and post some really mean stuff about dogs in general really bothers me. In person I am sure you are all fine people. But let's face it some of the posts in this thread border on rude, and although there is no law about being rude, it still says something about you as an individual. I will be quick to point out, I too have made some mistakes here on WB, but you guys really need to lighten up. I thought WB was about helping people with the sport of Backpacking.
"Rude" is what a high percentage of dog owners who bring their animals onto public trails on public lands routinely are toward other hikers, who have done nothing to bring on such treatment. Too, those animal owners are typically in complete and permanent denial about their behavior and the rights of those other hikers NOT to have their hikes affected by someone else's dogs. Too, there is NO indication those dog owners will have their behavior remedied by anything but losing their dogs and/or force (by law, or by shooting/bear-spraying/striking their dogs). THAT is what the large majority of anti-uncontrolled dogs-on-trails posters here understand -- and IMO are not succeeding in getting across to you.
Blue Jay
03-14-2008, 09:27
Too, there is NO indication those dog owners will have their behavior remedied by anything but losing their dogs and/or force (by law, or by shooting/bear-spraying/striking their dogs). THAT is what the large majority of anti-uncontrolled dogs-on-trails posters here understand -- and IMO are not succeeding in getting across to you.
I am an anti-uncontrolled dogs-on trails poster and you are not getting across to ME. For the first time in my life I want to take a dog hiking. If nothing else to keep things like you away from me. I hiked behind you in Mass. and VT. during your thru. Other hikers truly hated you. You and their posts in the shelter journals were nasty. It's a testament to the safety of the trail that you where never assaulted.
Tipi Walter
03-14-2008, 09:45
Here's the answer for the Smokies: I'll just train my dog to be a "stray" and to follow me at a distance. He could flank me on the trail and we could met up periodically. Or I could spray paint him to look like a coyote(or a wolf??)and when the Tent Police waterboard me I could honestly say, "I don't really know that dog!!"
minnesotasmith
03-14-2008, 10:06
I am an anti-uncontrolled dogs-on trails poster and you are not getting across to ME. For the first time in my life I want to take a dog hiking. If nothing else to keep things like you away from me. I hiked behind you in Mass. and VT. during your thru. Other hikers truly hated you. You and their posts in the shelter journals were nasty. It's a testament to the safety of the trail that you where never assaulted.
Sounds like you forgot to take your meds today. Thorazine not's something to miss taking daily, I expect.
bswilarmy
03-14-2008, 16:18
On my thru hike this year, I am going to bring my prized Pachyderm “Pinky” because Pinky wants to see the world and the AT.
He is built for long trails, ask my friend Hannibal, unlike his ancestors today he is drip dry and does well around the shelters, Except when Pinky farts or belches, I had a hard time getting the shelter roof back on after that one time.
He is great with other hikers! He is really well balanced, and loves to pack and carry other’s packs. Loves the balds, and keeps them clear, I had a great time with Pinky in Shenandoah; the ranger was scratching his head when I offered to “do” the grass. (No smok’in involved)
Although Pinky is well behaved I really do have a problem with shelter mice and other people's Gorp droppings around the shelters. Pinky runs from shelter mice, sometimes trampling others that don’t do well around animals, like Wolfs, Weasels, Hitman, and sometimes Taters!
He wins the academy award for Pack Sniffer!
Oh if you have extra Gorp with peanuts he will love you for it!
Here is a picture of Pinky & me and I know you are all going to make him welcome!
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg275/MarkSwarbrick/evan-1.jpg
does your dog do kids parties??:banana
Anyone mind if I bring my traildog? :D The dog is already used to living in Maine afterall.
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/630589938X.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg
climberdave
03-14-2008, 16:49
I love it!!!! :)
Thanks Mags for making my day a little brighter.
I thought most hikers liked the outdoors, animals, communing w/ nature. Dogs are amazing creatures that I find most outdoorsman like spending time with. I guess I dont understand hikers who sleep in the dirt, dont bathe, and poop in the woods, who get all bent out of shape that a dog ran up to them, or licked them, or put a dirty paw on them!! Give me a break!! Stop being such a wuss!
This is the truth, my wife and I hiked most of the AT with our labs. Everybody loved them! People would look forward to seeing us so they could play with our dogs. I heard one negative comment about them and it was from Minnesota Smith, who cowardly mumbled something as we walked past w/ our well behaved dogs. As we came upon hikers we would ask, do you mind dogs? if they said yes we would leash them and walk by(this happened 2 times in 4 months of hiking) if they said no we would allow our dogs to greet them. Pretty simple solution! The only aggressive dogs I have ever encountered in my thousands of miles of hiking were dogs from neighboring homes. DOGS ARE NOT A PROBLEM ON THE AT.
Well, normally I would not agree with Minnesota Smith on almost anything. But in this case he is right on. Leave the Damn dog at home!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dogs are at best an annoyance
the hard terrain of the AT is not kind to pets
They do NOT belong in the wilderness
the dog may even attract a bear to you
In any case, dogs are probitted (and rightly so) from at least two Parks, ie Shenandoah National Park and Baxter State Park. also from GSMNP. So that would pose you a big inconvenience. YES, the Rangers will stop you if you try to sneek him in, especially in Baxter.
At best I have tolerated hikers with dogs. They really don't belong in a shelter. And if you want to lose friends quick, especially with this hiker, just try having a loud barking dog at a shelter with hikers.
Have I gotten my point across?
Don't bring it!
DavidNH
Wow David you are truly uninformed! Dogs are allowed in Shenandoah. and here is a piece of trivia for you , dogs actually do belong in the wilderness, its where they came from! As for losing friends, If I had to recall one hiker that other hikers wanted to be around more than any other it was Heald who thru hiked with hid dog Annie 7 times! Furthermore bears tend to stay away from dogs, I know because I hike w/ dogs and you dont. Well thanks for tolerating hikers w/ dogs, we will certainly try to do the same for you!
Wise Old Owl
03-14-2008, 23:53
Well, normally I would not agree with Minnesota Smith on almost anything. But in this case he is right on. Leave the Damn dog at home!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dogs are at best an annoyance "No Sniveling"
the hard terrain of the AT is not kind to pets "Some Pets, & Some People -hence they quit"
They do NOT belong in the wilderness "BULL SHIRT" 3.
the dog may even attract a bear to you
In any case, dogs are probitted (and rightly so) from at least two Parks, ie Shenandoah National Park and Baxter State Park. also from GSMNP. So that would pose you a big inconvenience. YES, the Rangers will stop you if you try to sneek him in, especially in Baxter.
At best I have tolerated hikers with dogs 1. They really don't belong in a shelter. And if you want to lose friends quick, especially with this hiker, just try having a loud barking dog at a shelter with hikers 2.
Have I gotten my point across?
Don't bring it!
DavidNH
1."isn't this fun-we tolerate your opinion"
2. "Dogs can be trained to not bark."
3. Please read this... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feral
"Rude" is what a high percentage of dog owners who bring their animals onto public trails on public lands routinely are toward other hikers, who have done nothing to bring on such treatment. Too, those animal owners are typically in complete and permanent denial about their behavior and the rights of those other hikers NOT to have their hikes affected by someone else's dogs. Too, there is NO indication those dog owners will have their behavior remedied by anything but losing their dogs and/or force (by law, or by shooting/bear-spraying/striking their dogs). THAT is what the large majority of anti-uncontrolled dogs-on-trails posters here understand -- and IMO are not succeeding in getting across to you.
No, I value your opinion and stop lumping ALL animal owners together. Your success depends on your choice of words.
I happen to live near the Boy Scout Camp "Camp Horseshoe" where no dogs are allowed. Although some miss the sign at the entrance. The Forest ranger got around the rule with the largest domesticated Wolf I have ever seen, he is higher & about the size of a modern picnic table. A fantastic well trained animal around the kids... Wrap your thoughts around that one!
minnesotasmith
03-15-2008, 07:23
I happen to live near the Boy Scout Camp "Camp Horseshoe" where no dogs are allowed. Although some miss the sign at the entrance. The Forest ranger got around the rule with the largest domesticated Wolf I have ever seen, he is higher & about the size of a modern picnic table. A fantastic well trained animal around the kids... Wrap your thoughts around that one!
1) The ranger obeys the letter if not the spirit of the rule. Shame on him for being a rules lawyer. IMO that is akin to someone at their wedding, when vowing to forsake all others, mentally saying to themselves "Except Tiffany". Obviously the sign needs to be changed to "no domestic animals". He apparently belongs in a sleazy law office helping get guilty clients off on technicalities, instead of being paid to not follow his oath to uphold laws. Another sworn LEO deficient in honor IMO.
2) I owned a 75% wolf hybrid for over 4 years. She was an interesting beast, and a blast to own. However, she had not had vetting of hundreds of generations of culling dangerous genes out of her line that made her unpredictable with "nonpack" members. She also did NOT do well with strangers at all. Thus, I understood she did not belong within reach of anyone not in the household. Too bad the ranger did not learn enough about that type of animal to understand this about domestically-kept wolves, or care to go by it if he did. Another myopic canine owner who wrongly thinks he and his animal are "special" and exempt from any rules they find inconvenient. I hope he loses his job soon, so that he and the danger his animal present are gone from that camp.
Wise Old Owl
03-15-2008, 23:16
:rolleyes:http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg275/MarkSwarbrick/20070101_pointless_incessant_barkin.png
bswilarmy
03-17-2008, 18:05
I happen to live near the Boy Scout Camp "Camp Horseshoe" where no dogs are allowed. Although some miss the sign at the entrance. The Forest ranger got around the rule with the largest domesticated Wolf I have ever seen, he is higher & about the size of a modern picnic table. A fantastic well trained animal around the kids... Wrap your thoughts around that one!
1) The ranger obeys the letter if not the spirit of the rule. Shame on him for being a rules lawyer. IMO that is akin to someone at their wedding, when vowing to forsake all others, mentally saying to themselves "Except Tiffany". Obviously the sign needs to be changed to "no domestic animals". He apparently belongs in a sleazy law office helping get guilty clients off on technicalities, instead of being paid to not follow his oath to uphold laws. Another sworn LEO deficient in honor IMO.
2) I owned a 75% wolf hybrid for over 4 years. She was an interesting beast, and a blast to own. However, she had not had vetting of hundreds of generations of culling dangerous genes out of her line that made her unpredictable with "nonpack" members. She also did NOT do well with strangers at all. Thus, I understood she did not belong within reach of anyone not in the household. Too bad the ranger did not learn enough about that type of animal to understand this about domestically-kept wolves, or care to go by it if he did. Another myopic canine owner who wrongly thinks he and his animal are "special" and exempt from any rules they find inconvenient. I hope he loses his job soon, so that he and the danger his animal present are gone from that camp.
out of all the rubbish you have spouted i totally agree with you on two points; 1. if the sign says NO DOGS(pets) then dont do it, 2. If you know your dog isnt good with strangers and other dogs DO NOT bring it!!
Mine was a 136lb St Bernard (bred for mountains) and everyone i met loved him. i also must point out that the terrain is a huge factor also. i would never take my boy to Tallulah Gorge but the entire AT in GA he was fine!!
BLUF: the personality of owner shows in the actions of the dog!!
bswilarmy
03-17-2008, 18:08
Hikerchick2008 has a great hiking dog(blue healer) but she bolts after deer. so whenever they are in the wild the dog stays on a leash!! proof that responsible owners do exist and dogs are ok to hike with!!
NorthCountryWoods
03-17-2008, 19:20
Bring the dog....if for no other reason than to annoy all the haters.
Seriously, bringing a dog can be the greatest part of the trip or it can bring major suckage.....only one way to find out.
dessertrat
03-17-2008, 21:00
leave her home. but if you bring her, you carry all her stuff. no pack for the dog
Yeah, seriously. The dog didn't even ask to go on the walk, let alone carry a bunch of junk.
Wise Old Owl
03-18-2008, 11:51
Yeah, seriously. The dog didn't even ask to go on the walk, let alone carry a bunch of junk.
Well they do ask! As soon as you start putting on your boots & socks in the next room they "hear" that sound and go ballistic, Jumping up and down and running circles around you and if they can get to the lead on the wall they grab that and run around you. Rugby goes so nuts and gets in my face I can't even see my laces as I tie them. Sorry I can't You Tube for you to see-It's hilarious!
AlwaysHiking
03-18-2008, 12:44
Well they do ask! As soon as you start putting on your boots & socks in the next room they "hear" that sound and go ballistic, Jumping up and down and running circles around you and if they can get to the lead on the wall they grab that and run around you. Rugby goes so nuts and gets in my face I can't even see my laces as I tie them. Sorry I can't You Tube for you to see-It's hilarious!
That's pretty much the same reaction I get here too! When he sees me pack up he starts running and leaping and bouncing all over the place with excitement. If I don't take him with me, when I get back I get the cold shoulder for days. Any other trip out of town for a few days, he's always ecstatic when I return; it's only when I have my backpacking or day hike gear that he shuns me.
regarding the OP - we've had our dogs (one at a time) on hikes up to 3 or 4 days long. it is a different experience and the dog's need really must come first. it is both an enjoyable experience and a PITA all at once.
Well they do ask! As soon as you start putting on your boots & socks in the next room they "hear" that sound and go ballistic, Jumping up and down and running circles around you and if they can get to the lead on the wall they grab that and run around you. Rugby goes so nuts and gets in my face I can't even see my laces as I tie them. Sorry I can't You Tube for you to see-It's hilarious!
two of my three dogs do exactly that. my youngest has only been on one short hike but i have not doubt that he will also get equally as excited one day.
on the flip side, my friends dog doesn't get the slightest bit excited and has been quite unenjoyable whenever she has been brought along. she is now left at home, kennel, or with friends whenever my friend goes hiking.
it is about knowing your dog and understanding what the dog is communicating to you.
AlwaysHiking
03-18-2008, 16:57
it is both an enjoyable experience and a PITA all at once.
....
it is about knowing your dog and understanding what the dog is communicating to you.
I think you summed it up perfectly!
The Weasel
03-18-2008, 17:18
I am always fascinated by those, like a recent post, who think that any disagreement with someone bringing their dog on the trail must be from a "dog hater". That's insulting, wrong and, frankly, arrogant. It's part of why a lot of people who - like me - have dogs and love dogs don't think dogs belong on long hiking trips say so.
First, if you don't want responses, don't post here. If all you want is an "Amen Corner" of people to say, "Yeah, nothing to worry about," go talk to the mirror. WB pretty much gives honest and useful advice, but if you don't want it, don't ask for it. It's that simple. If all you want is people to agree with you, don't waste the space on the server.
Second, people who have dogs and a lot of trail experience may have really good reasons why you shouldn't bring your dog, or why it isn't as great a thing for Sparky as you might think. I've said my piece on it, and others have too. And a lot of people ON the trail may be a lot more polite than you realize: Maybe they wish you didn't have your dog there and they are just too nice to say so, since it's not as if you can put ol' Spark back in the trunk of the car. And it's a little like telling someone carrying a 44 Magnum that you don't like guns on the trail; they have the ability to make your life sorta unhappy, so you keep your mouth shut.
I'm sick and tired of those who want dogs on the trail acting as if there are two choices: "(1) Tell me you don't mind my dog or (2) shut up." If you're not mature enough to listen to others who disagree with you, maybe you don't belong on the trail in the first place.
There are good reasons not to bring your dog. You may not agree with them, and you may not even comply with them. But at least stop sniveling about someone saying you're making a mistake.
The Weasel
NorthCountryWoods
03-19-2008, 06:48
I am always fascinated by those, like a recent post, who think that any disagreement with someone bringing their dog on the trail must be from a "dog hater". That's insulting, wrong and, frankly, arrogant. It's part of why a lot of people who - like me - have dogs and love dogs don't think dogs belong on long hiking trips say so.
The Weasel
I, am fascinated by those that get "insulted" about others opinions, but have no problem voicing their own.
Here's a bit of your own advice-
If you're not mature enough to listen to others who disagree with you, maybe you don't belong on the trail in the first place.
:D
You have reasons you don't think dogs belong on the trail....understood, don't bring em. Maybe others will see the wisdom of your ways and stop bringing theirs....or maybe not.
Hike yer own hike and more importantly....let others hike their own.
I DO think those that want others to leave their dogs home are HATERS. Intolerance is hate. Either a hater of dogs (which there are a few that have voiced that opinion on this board) or a hater of other peoples dogs (which seems more common), otherwise.....you wouldn't care!
If you were telling people to leave the elderly at home or inner city kids, because it's stressful and annoying to other hikers....what would you be called?
:jump
superman
03-19-2008, 07:34
I, am fascinated by those that get "insulted" about others opinions, but have no problem voicing their own.
Here's a bit of your own advice-
:D
You have reasons you don't think dogs belong on the trail....understood, don't bring em. Maybe others will see the wisdom of your ways and stop bringing theirs....or maybe not.
Hike yer own hike and more importantly....let others hike their own.
I DO think those that want others to leave their dogs home are HATERS. Intolerance is hate. Either a hater of dogs (which there are a few that have voiced that opinion on this board) or a hater of other peoples dogs (which seems more common), otherwise.....you wouldn't care!
If you were telling people to leave the elderly at home or inner city kids, because it's stressful and annoying to other hikers....what would you be called?
:jump
Um, "a weasel?":banana
I've been more annoyed by some people's kids than I have by dogs.
NorthCountryWoods
03-19-2008, 10:15
Um, "a weasel?":banana
I was thinking "hater", but whatever. ;)
The thing is, I think we've all been disturbed by dogs, kids, other annoying hikers, even the wildlife can put a kink in your plans, but you don't have anymore right to be there than they do (at least until the trail Nazis legislate something).
Learn to deal or let it ruin your hike...the choice is yours.
Blissful
03-19-2008, 10:49
Well they do ask! As soon as you start putting on your boots & socks in the next room they "hear" that sound and go ballistic, Jumping up and down and running circles around you and if they can get to the lead on the wall they grab that and run around you. Rugby goes so nuts and gets in my face I can't even see my laces as I tie them. Sorry I can't You Tube for you to see-It's hilarious!
My dog loves walks too. In fact she will bark when the sun is a certain place in the sky, knowing it should be time for her walk. Yesterday I was late and she let me know it.
Blissful
03-19-2008, 10:52
I've been more annoyed by some people's kids than I have by dogs.
There are people here also annoyed by Boy Scouts.
Solution? Find a nice tenting spot all to your own.
The Weasel
03-19-2008, 20:45
Hike yer own hike and more importantly....let others hike their own.
I DO think those that want others to leave their dogs home are HATERS. Intolerance is hate. Either a hater of dogs (which there are a few that have voiced that opinion on this board) or a hater of other peoples dogs (which seems more common), otherwise.....you wouldn't care!
If you were telling people to leave the elderly at home or inner city kids, because it's stressful and annoying to other hikers....what would you be called?
:jump
Well, yes, I'd be called "The Weasel." That's my name.
But dude, 'intolerance' ain't hate. I am intolerant of fools, but I don't hate them. I just want them to stop being fools.
More pointedly, HYOH doesn't mean you - or anyone else - get to jam your desires to make other's lives (including your dog's) unpleasant just so you can do what you please. As the saying goes, "Your rights stop where my nose begins." Dogs on long distance hikes cause problems for others, and it can be dangerous for dogs, too. People can say so, and you need to know that you're not entitled to have your own way with others having to let you do so without expressing their views. Just as you're free to pack our your own waste by slaterhing yourself with feces, the rest of us are free to say, "We don't want you around, and besides, that's something that can cause problems for others." So no, I don't hate dogs, and no, I don't hate dog lovers, and no, I don't want you to leave you aged grandma home; Granny Gatewood is welcome, reincarnated, a million times. But don't tell the rest of us that we have to enjoy your impositions on us, or igrnore what is, all too often, animal abuse whether unintended or not.
TW
notorius tic
03-19-2008, 21:08
Bow Legs an Bono did it but there was only 1 issue Bowlegs throwing a stick to Bono an he(Bowlegs), in Pennmar st park of the damn at the pond..Bowlegs didnt no how serios it was what a bummer get alll the way to PA. an 1 wrong toss an your off.... Nedless to say caught both of them healthy an fine on a flip flop... in the 1000000 mile wilderness...<:
NorthCountryWoods
03-20-2008, 06:49
But don't tell the rest of us that we have to enjoy your impositions on us, or igrnore what is, all too often, animal abuse whether unintended or not.
TW
If someones dog is humping your leg or eating your food, that would be considered an imposition, but from your (and others) earlier post...
...Maybe they wish you didn't have your dog there and they are just too nice to say so...
....it seems you feel dogs just being on the trail is an imposition to everyone else no matter how they behave. :confused:
I've come across the owners that aren't in control of their dogs and yell to you as the dogs nose is in your crotch..."he's friendly", but this isn't the norm, at least in the northern tier.
That's a human issue, not canine.
As for abuse....what do you call having a dog and then leaving him/her home for a 6 month hike? A dog getting exercise everyday is now abuse? You realize 99% of behavior issues with dogs is due to lack of exercise. Which is why I think there are so many well behaved dogs on the trail. Now if you are just running into day hikers and this is the first time the dog has been outside of their yard in 6 months, you will notice a behavioral difference.
Also, a dog will adapt to the stress of a long hike more quickly than you ever could. If you are a good owner and aware of your dogs needs, you know when somethings wrong. There's no more abuse than taking him/her to a dog park or veterinarian.
superman
03-20-2008, 07:03
The AT would be better with more dogs, less people and no shelters.:-?
My vote is to take the dog, but to be prepared to bail out.
Trail life should be great life, for dog or human, if done right.
AlwaysHiking
03-20-2008, 09:27
My vote is to take the dog, but to be prepared to bail out.
Trail life should be great life, for dog or human, if done right.
Yep, anyone who's ever bonded with a canine will understand the enjoyment both can get from a great relationship on the trail.
Anytime a dog and owner are having fun while hikingl, I guarantee you the dog is having twice as much fun as the owner. Same goes for when a dog and owner are miserable on the trail, the dog will be twice as miserable.
That's why hiking with a canine has to be approached with the understanding that at anytime the dog shows any discomfort, you're done for the day, and the next and the next if need be.
I also think a dog behaving poorly is only doing so b/c the owner is the problem. If I see someone with an out of control dog, I tell them exactly how I feel. Why would anyone be timid about doing that? I understand that people only want to be 'nice' and not offend, but geesh, if a dog is bothering you, do something about it.
Also, not all dogs are out of control and not all owners are bad. There are a lot of generalizations coming from the folks here who don't like trail dogs. I invite you to hike with me and my dog anytime. You'll see the owner makes the difference.
Tipi Walter
03-20-2008, 09:32
The AT would be better with more dogs, less people and no shelters.:-?
My point exactly. Some of you guys seem to think of the AT as a very narrow hallway packed with people(and their dogs), but in fact you're on a backpacking trip surrounded by thousands of acres of tentsites and the easy opportunity to explore areas off-trail where there are no people or their dogs. You're not at some Interstate Rest Stop that requires your participation(the mudpit shelter nexus), and even right on the AT there are thousands of tentsites no where near the shelters and the people with their dogs.
On a recent trip between Fontana south to Cheoah I counted dozens of off-trail tentsites(thousands of hammock sites)and some were 100 yards off the trail, far enough to spend months without ever being seen. The actual AT is just a trail, and not the only place to camp.
Wise Old Owl
03-20-2008, 10:13
Weasel,
My post was to address an ongoing problem with some trail folk that "jump" to post everytime they see the word "Dog" on the trail. I did it without pointing fingers as to who, because they know who they are. There are some who just love to stir it up on every dog post, requardless if it is a newbie to WB. As I pointed out this thread was moved from General to bury it for a while. Yes they are Hater's!
I am trying really hard to make positive or fun posts here as many do not know me.
You wrote:
But dude, 'intolerance' ain't hate. I am intolerant of fools, but I don't hate them. I just want them to stop being fools.
I am not going to argue, because of a wide interpretation just read what I found below.
Thus the etymological notion of the word is of a "preconceived opinion." Prejudice often is paired nowadays with discrimination in the definition "intollerance of other races," but they're an odd couple. The one means "to make a prior judgment," while the other means "to separate," and in its negative sense tends to imply a lack of judgment altogether.
Hate crime is the violence of intolerance and bigotry, intended to hurt and intimidate someone because of their race, ethnicity, national origin, religious, sexual orientation, or disability. The purveyors of hate use explosives, arson, weapons, vandalism, physical violence, and verbal threats of violence to instill fear in their victims, leaving them vulnerable to more attacks and feeling alienated, helpless, suspicious and fearful. Others may become frustrated and angry if they believe the local government and other groups in the community will not protect them. When perpetrators of hate are not prosecuted as criminals and their acts not publicly condemned, their crimes can weaken even those communities with the healthiest race relations.
The Weasel
03-20-2008, 13:17
North, I hope you'll go back and see what my feelings on dogs are:
1) They are an imposition no matter what. If you're at a shelter with your dog, I have to be present with it, including probably that you will want it inside the shelter at night, or I then have to wonder what happens when I get up at night and your dog is outside somewhere. There's more; that's an example.
2) More importantly, most people don't realize the risks to their dogs and/or their discomfort. You risk losing your dog if it's not leashed 24/7, which is borderline abuse for a dog. Many dogs aren't built for long trail work, and even if they are strong, it can damage hips in ways that aren't seen for years, but lead to premature death. Trust me on that one: I had to kill my beloved prior Lab for bad hips that had him in constant pain. It's common.
There's more. "Out of control" dogs are few. Dogs that I don't want to sleep with in a shelter, wonder about when I meet (unleashed) on a trail, and feel sorry for seeing them 24/7 leashed, and worst of all, cry for when I learn they have 'gone missing' are, frankly, many.
Thanks for the invite. But you're forcing me (or anyone else on the trail) to join you, without prior invitation, when you bring it. And you're forcing your dog, too: It's not deciding it wants to hike. It's deciding it wants to be with you. It would be just as happy spending the day with you at your local dog park.
If you respect others on the trail, but most importantly, if you love your dog, you'll leave it home.
TW
Appalachian Tater
03-20-2008, 13:27
Too many skinny dogs covered with ticks turn up lost along the trail to ignore the issue.
I love dogs and just can't stand to see them suffering, so I guess in a way it's selfish.
NorthCountryWoods
03-21-2008, 06:47
North, I hope you'll go back and see what my feelings on dogs are:
1) They are an imposition no matter what. If you're at a shelter with your dog, I have to be present with it, including probably that you will want it inside the shelter at night, or I then have to wonder what happens when I get up at night and your dog is outside somewhere. There's more; that's an example.
I understand that YOU feel dogs are an imposition anywhere on the trail, but again....it is not YOUR trail. There are a lot of people with a lot of different interests, religious denominations, political views and all have the same right you do to be there.
Are they all an imposition? Where do you draw the line?
2) More importantly, most people don't realize the risks to their dogs and/or their discomfort. You risk losing your dog if it's not leashed 24/7, which is borderline abuse for a dog. Many dogs aren't built for long trail work, and even if they are strong, it can damage hips in ways that aren't seen for years, but lead to premature death. Trust me on that one: I had to kill my beloved prior Lab for bad hips that had him in constant pain. It's common.
In your opinion just about everything is abuse to a dog, unless they just sit at home and I can't disagree more strongly there. A socialized and active dog is a healthier and happier dog....it's been proven. Lost dogs on the trail are a small fraction of a larger problem and again a human issue.
There's more. "Out of control" dogs are few. Dogs that I don't want to sleep with in a shelter, wonder about when I meet (unleashed) on a trail, and feel sorry for seeing them 24/7 leashed, and worst of all, cry for when I learn they have 'gone missing' are, frankly, many.
Thanks for the invite. But you're forcing me (or anyone else on the trail) to join you, without prior invitation, when you bring it. And you're forcing your dog, too: It's not deciding it wants to hike. It's deciding it wants to be with you. It would be just as happy spending the day with you at your local dog park.
If you respect others on the trail, but most importantly, if you love your dog, you'll leave it home.
TW
Again, no one is inviting you to the trail. You are showing up to the party and telling everyone you don't like some of the guests and they should be left home.
And I can tell you've never regularly hiked or been in the woods with a dog...if you had you'd know they in fact do decide whether they want to go or not. Just like when I pick up the leash and poop bags, my 12 year old mutt knows what's happening and gets pissy for a day if I take the back pack and snowshoes and leave him home.
Unfortunately, you've done nothing to disprove the impression of a "hater", and if anything reinforced the assertion with references to a dog as "it" instead of "him/her".
To be honest, I don't think you are a "hater", I think you have control issues. You would like to have control over all actions and choices of others you come across on the trail and try to gain that control with disapproval, scare tactics and hyperbole.
The only thing I can say to that is...
....good luck.
:D
Lone Wolf
03-21-2008, 07:34
To be honest, I don't think you are a "hater", I think you have control issues. You would like to have control over all actions and choices of others you come across on the trail and this website and try to gain that control with disapproval, scare tactics and hyperbole.
no *hit.....
AlwaysHiking
03-21-2008, 09:28
But you're forcing me (or anyone else on the trail) to join you, without prior invitation, when you bring it.
I don't see how anyone who goes out with a dog is 'forcing' other people to join them. Maybe there is some group of hikers out there with dogs who go around and form a circle around other hikers and physically prevent that person from escaping and then they all move in one mass.
I haven't run into that group of people yet. Usually when I'm out, with or without my dog, and I see other hikers, they either pass me or I pass them or they're going the other direction. There's no 'joining' going on. No one owns the trail, we're all there for our own reasons and they have nothing to do with you. And I've never had a stranger stop and hike with me unless some conversation started up where one or the other is asking about water sources or trail directions/descriptions, but that still doesn't constitute 'joining'.
You don't have to hike with a person with a dog. You don't have to hike with any other person on the trail you don't like. No one is forcing you to do anything that you don't want, except for those crazy people with dogs who form circles around weasels.
I know a lot of folks are anti-dog on a thru, however, i think you just need to know your dog. if you are as unsure as you sound, you may want to consider leaving her at home. personally, i'm bringing my mutt along when i start in june. i know i will run into more issues than others (hitching, few if any hostel stays, etc) but i could not imagine not taking him. i've had him since literaly day one and he started on trails at 4 weeks. i actually trained him out there, and he now does better out there than in the city. consider how much you really know her, and if it would really be fair to her to be out there for months.
superman
03-22-2008, 11:55
I know a lot of folks are anti-dog on a thru, however, i think you just need to know your dog. if you are as unsure as you sound, you may want to consider leaving her at home. personally, i'm bringing my mutt along when i start in june. i know i will run into more issues than others (hitching, few if any hostel stays, etc) but i could not imagine not taking him. i've had him since literaly day one and he started on trails at 4 weeks. i actually trained him out there, and he now does better out there than in the city. consider how much you really know her, and if it would really be fair to her to be out there for months.
I never had a problem finding a room along the AT and I got rides from people who wouldn't have given me a ride if I were alone. Winter is a 75 lb. white German shepherd. There is no substitute for an intelligent dog with a good temperment and good training. Now, if we could get the people to have those qualities it would be a better world.
The Weasel
03-22-2008, 19:48
I understand that YOU feel dogs are an imposition anywhere on the trail, but again....it is not YOUR trail. There are a lot of people with a lot of different interests, religious denominations, political views and all have the same right you do to be there.
Are they all an imposition? Where do you draw the line?
In your opinion just about everything is abuse to a dog, unless they just sit at home and I can't disagree more strongly there. A socialized and active dog is a healthier and happier dog....it's been proven. Lost dogs on the trail are a small fraction of a larger problem and again a human issue.
Again, no one is inviting you to the trail. You are showing up to the party and telling everyone you don't like some of the guests and they should be left home.
And I can tell you've never regularly hiked or been in the woods with a dog...if you had you'd know they in fact do decide whether they want to go or not. Just like when I pick up the leash and poop bags, my 12 year old mutt knows what's happening and gets pissy for a day if I take the back pack and snowshoes and leave him home.
Unfortunately, you've done nothing to disprove the impression of a "hater", and if anything reinforced the assertion with references to a dog as "it" instead of "him/her".
To be honest, I don't think you are a "hater", I think you have control issues. You would like to have control over all actions and choices of others you come across on the trail and try to gain that control with disapproval, scare tactics and hyperbole.
The only thing I can say to that is...
....good luck.
:D
You know, North, you're the kind that makes people who are indifferent about dogs into the kind of people that detest them on the trail.
If you're taking your dog on a lesser used trail than the AT, or you're not staying at shelters or group-used campsites, fine. But the rest of the time, you're the one imposing your dog on others. You're the one that is telling people who were willing to sleep in shelters that they have to have your dog with them, and that they have to deal with a dog around the shelter. That's imposing. I expect people at shelters, and so do most people.
As for 'control', well, no, but sorry. Don't play 'blame the victim' games to assuage your own sense of "I can do anything I want to and anyone who says no is bad." You're the one demanding to do what you want, and throwing a hissy fit if others don't agree.
As for dog abuse, if you're not keeping your dog on a leash 24/7, you're taking a pretty nasty risk: You only have to be wrong once to never see your dog again or for someone to accidentally be hurt. If you are keeping her/him leashed that much, well, that's abuse in my book, too. Health issues? If your dog was bred for distance walking, maybe. Few are, and labs and shepherds weren't among them (and mine's a lab; I know). You dog isn't Balto; sorry. Even sled dogs get injured frequently. Is he happy to go with you? Sure he is; dogs live in the present, and he wants to share with you. You owe him (or her) more.
So bring your dog: Nothing other than courtesy and consideration for others, and true love for your dog, stops you from doing so.
TW
NorthCountryWoods
03-23-2008, 18:27
You know, North, you're the kind that makes people who are indifferent about dogs into the kind of people that detest them on the trail.
If you're taking your dog on a lesser used trail than the AT, or you're not staying at shelters or group-used campsites, fine. But the rest of the time, you're the one imposing your dog on others. You're the one that is telling people who were willing to sleep in shelters that they have to have your dog with them, and that they have to deal with a dog around the shelter. That's imposing. I expect people at shelters, and so do most people.
As for 'control', well, no, but sorry. Don't play 'blame the victim' games to assuage your own sense of "I can do anything I want to and anyone who says no is bad." You're the one demanding to do what you want, and throwing a hissy fit if others don't agree.
As for dog abuse, if you're not keeping your dog on a leash 24/7, you're taking a pretty nasty risk: You only have to be wrong once to never see your dog again or for someone to accidentally be hurt. If you are keeping her/him leashed that much, well, that's abuse in my book, too. Health issues? If your dog was bred for distance walking, maybe. Few are, and labs and shepherds weren't among them (and mine's a lab; I know). You dog isn't Balto; sorry. Even sled dogs get injured frequently. Is he happy to go with you? Sure he is; dogs live in the present, and he wants to share with you. You owe him (or her) more.
So bring your dog: Nothing other than courtesy and consideration for others, and true love for your dog, stops you from doing so.
TW
Wow, thank you for proving my control freak theory....maybe you should post a template permission slip or application, that us lowly trail hooligans could print, fill out and mail to get your approval before setting out on the trail. How about a dress code, Mussolini? :rolleyes:
Again, it is not your trail, or the dog owners trail....but you have to deal with them, just like they have to deal with you (NOW that must be fun). :p
If they are imposing on you....you are imposing on them.....deal with it or stay home.
If you spent as much time worrying about yourself instead of other people and what they bring along....you (and the rest of the hiking community) would have a much happier hike.
The Weasel
03-23-2008, 20:09
Wow, thank you for proving my control freak theory....maybe you should post a template permission slip or application, that us lowly trail hooligans could print, fill out and mail to get your approval before setting out on the trail. How about a dress code, Mussolini? :rolleyes:
Again, it is not your trail, or the dog owners trail....but you have to deal with them, just like they have to deal with you (NOW that must be fun). :p
If they are imposing on you....you are imposing on them.....deal with it or stay home.
If you spent as much time worrying about yourself instead of other people and what they bring along....you (and the rest of the hiking community) would have a much happier hike.
North, you don't get it...but I hope others do: You can do whatever you want. But you're the one bringing something 'to the party' that most people 'at the party' will be too polite to tell you doesn't belong there. And you're not even really thinking about the others - including your dog - as you do so, but just telling 'the hiking community' that you're going to do what you want, regardless of the effect on others.
"Hike your own hike" doesn't mean that: It means planning what works for you, but you also have an obligation to think of your effect on the trail. Yes, HYOH can mean leaving litter, or not burying your waste, or planning on screaming at people at shelters, but most people realize that, just like starting a nuclear war, just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.
That's why a lot of us have tried to tell you that bringing a dog is a rougher choice than just having her clamber aboard your car and head for the trail with you. It involves major risks for your dog, and major problems for your own enjoyment of the trail and that of others. Either you don't seem to understand that or, worse, care. If it's the latter, you probably don't deserve your dog, and you may find yourself far lonelier on the AT than you otherwise would. If it's the former, and you don't understand, try to read the problems that others have with dogs so you at least understand when you see those things actually happen.
Me? I've seen people with good dogs (and I believe them) attack hikers when they've never done that before; I've seen more than one person hysterical at the dog they lost, or that was seriously injured, with nothing that could be done about it. I've seen fights in the middle of wet nights when a too-crowded shelter had a wet dog brought into it, and I've seen other people unhappily bearing it when someone else's dog ate their food, or peed on their backpack, or did other accidental things. I've watched dogs lap from water sources and then pee in them, and once saw another hiker kick the dog - someone else's - for doing so, with another fight started. I've seen my own dog dehydrate badly when water supplies were slim, giving him what I had, when it wasn't enough for either of us. I've seen that and more. Have you?
When you have, you'll realize that it's not something so easily handled as blaming "other people" for not wanting your wet dog and its smell on their sleeping bag, or having to pass up a spring out of disgust. Do those things happen constantly? Or course not. Do they happen? Yes. Are they the "dog haters' " fault? No.
Learn a little humility; when those things happen on your thru - and some will, if you bring your dog - you're going to need it. And if you blame it on everyone else, it's going to be a very long, lonely walk.
TW
Appalachian Tater
03-23-2008, 21:21
......I got rides from people who wouldn't have given me a ride if I were alone.... That's really stupid of them. What kind of dog did Gary Hilton have?
NorthCountryWoods
03-23-2008, 21:21
North, you don't get it...but I hope others do: You can do whatever you want. But you're the one bringing something 'to the party' that most people 'at the party' will be too polite to tell you doesn't belong there. And you're not even really thinking about the others - including your dog - as you do so, but just telling 'the hiking community' that you're going to do what you want, regardless of the effect on others.
TW
Yer right....I'm the one that doesn't get it. :rolleyes:
BTW...grammatical errors aside....is it you that decides the bold above?
superman
03-23-2008, 21:44
That's really stupid of them. What kind of dog did Gary Hilton have?
They seemed smarter than you.:banana
The Weasel
03-24-2008, 20:15
Yer right....I'm the one that doesn't get it. :rolleyes:
BTW...grammatical errors aside....is it you that decides the bold above?
No, for some reason, WB put bold in when I quoted you and then responded. You seem offended easily. I think you're going to have a lot of problems on the Trail if that's your mind set, but I hope I'm wrong.
TW
minnesotasmith
03-24-2008, 22:27
North, you don't get it...but I hope others do: You can do whatever you want. But you're the one bringing something 'to the party' that most people 'at the party' will be too polite to tell you doesn't belong there. And you're not even really thinking about the others - including your dog - as you do so, but just telling 'the hiking community' that you're going to do what you want, regardless of the effect on others.
"Hike your own hike" doesn't mean that: It means planning what works for you, but you also have an obligation to think of your effect on the trail. Yes, HYOH can mean leaving litter, or not burying your waste, or planning on screaming at people at shelters, but most people realize that, just like starting a nuclear war, just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.
That's why a lot of us have tried to tell you that bringing a dog is a rougher choice than just having her clamber aboard your car and head for the trail with you. It involves major risks for your dog, and major problems for your own enjoyment of the trail and that of others. Either you don't seem to understand that or, worse, care. If it's the latter, you probably don't deserve your dog, and you may find yourself far lonelier on the AT than you otherwise would. If it's the former, and you don't understand, try to read the problems that others have with dogs so you at least understand when you see those things actually happen.
Me? I've seen people with good dogs (and I believe them) attack hikers when they've never done that before; I've seen more than one person hysterical at the dog they lost, or that was seriously injured, with nothing that could be done about it. I've seen fights in the middle of wet nights when a too-crowded shelter had a wet dog brought into it, and I've seen other people unhappily bearing it when someone else's dog ate their food, or peed on their backpack, or did other accidental things. I've watched dogs lap from water sources and then pee in them, and once saw another hiker kick the dog - someone else's - for doing so, with another fight started. I've seen my own dog dehydrate badly when water supplies were slim, giving him what I had, when it wasn't enough for either of us. I've seen that and more. Have you?
When you have, you'll realize that it's not something so easily handled as blaming "other people" for not wanting your wet dog and its smell on their sleeping bag, or having to pass up a spring out of disgust. Do those things happen constantly? Or course not. Do they happen? Yes. Are they the "dog haters' " fault? No.
Learn a little humility; when those things happen on your thru - and some will, if you bring your dog - you're going to need it. And if you blame it on everyone else, it's going to be a very long, lonely walk.
TW
=============================================
+1
Someone who thinks that people who don't want someone else's domestic animal to involuntarily affect their hike are the inconsiderate/intolerant ones has a great deal to learn about how to behave in public, on public land. When your dog comes within 20' of another hiker on the trail, YOU have inflicted your animal on them.
I will add that on my 2006 thruhike I saw proportionately 10x as many dogs with thruhikers south of Damascus as I did north of Duncannon. Obviously, the dogs mostly don't make it. The question would then be whether the dog owner:
1) Goes home with his dog when it goes lame or gets injured (by wildlife, when hit by traffic, whatever), possibly permanently;
2) Sends the dog home when it can no longer hike (after considerable extra expense and inconvenience in the meantime, from being barred from most hostels so mostly having to use motels for town stops, boarding & shuttling around GMSP, etc.);
3) Is emotionally able to hike on (and does so) after the dog gets hit by a car, runs off and gets lost forever, etc.
None of these sound particularly appealing to me, and statistically they are together more likely than a successful, complete, fun thruhike with both hiker and dog completing all the Trail they are legally able to. (Since a dog can't legally go into GSMP or Baxter, no dog can legally thruhike, so they normally only section hike at most.)
smokymtnsteve
03-25-2008, 01:50
=============================================
(Since a dog can't legally go into GSMP or Baxter, no dog can legally thruhike, so they normally only section hike at most.)
Service dogs for disabled folks are allowed.
how ya doing MS...ready to come to AK and help me build the cabin this season??? btw we gotta dog....:D
minnesotasmith
03-25-2008, 01:53
Service dogs for disabled folks are allowed.
how ya doing MS...ready to come to AK and help me build the cabin this season??? btw we gotta dog....:D
There is that one loophole for having dogs in those parks. Of course, since most service dogs are for the blind, and blind people don't exactly thruhike in great #s, legal dogs will continue to be fractions of asterisks.
Re the cabin... I remain interested in the idea. If I ever manage to land an AK job, we will definitely have to talk more.
BTW, I LIKE dogs I know, that aren't inclined to bite me. The others -- well, that's what bear spray was REALLY mainly invented for IMO. :D
The Weasel
03-25-2008, 01:59
Service dogs - such as mine - are not lmiited to the blind, but also the hearing impaired and others. But I agree that they will be miniscule in number.
TW
smokymtnsteve
03-25-2008, 02:04
well come on MS plenty of jobs in Fairbanks.
and what was that you wuz asayin weasel???
could U repeat that a little louder please?
NorthCountryWoods
03-25-2008, 06:52
=============================================
+1
Someone who thinks that people who don't want someone else's domestic animal to involuntarily affect their hike are the inconsiderate/intolerant ones has a great deal to learn about how to behave in public, on public land. When your dog comes within 20' of another hiker on the trail, YOU have inflicted your animal on them.
Oh....I didn't know about the 20 foot rule. So if one hikes with their dog and jumps 20 feet off the trail every time you come around, they are not "inflicted" and you'll have no problem with them....right?
Problem solved.
Does the 20 foot rule work for ugly people too?
The Weasel
03-25-2008, 07:04
Oh....I didn't know about the 20 foot rule. So if one hikes with their dog and jumps 20 feet off the trail every time you come around, they are not "inflicted" and you'll have no problem with them....right?
Problem solved.
Does the 20 foot rule work for ugly people too?
No, but it it does apply to snotty ones. Don't worry. We'll recognize you! :D
TW
NorthCountryWoods
03-25-2008, 07:21
No, but it it does apply to snotty ones. Don't worry. We'll recognize you! :D
TW
It's called sarcasm....and I'm sure you guys are easy to recognize.
dixicritter
03-25-2008, 08:27
Looks like this thread has run it's course.