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desdemona
02-21-2008, 17:14
Hi,

I'm looking for a better shell for my day hikes. Right now I am using one of the following: light winter jacket (one of those Lands End type jackets that everybody seems to have but lined with thermal fleece) or non-breathing type shell (typical type shell-- I think they are $10-15 or so).
Looking for something more breathable and lighter--esp than the Land's End thing.

I am not in the market for anything super expensive.

Might be looking at this page:
http://www.sierratradingpost.com/search/SearchResults.aspx?=&allAnyWords=&allWords=&anyWords=&exactPhrase=&searchWithin=shells&N=9010013&page=2

Type of climbing/hiking-- mountains, dry (usually), intense sun (regardless of season), rigorous (bushwacking and scrambling).

Any ideas here (i am not necessarily wedded to this page, just thought there were a few ideas here). I have great faith in ya'll. :)



--des

envirodiver
02-21-2008, 17:18
Marmot Precip is a nice waterproof breathable jacket. Lightweight (Men's Med is about 14 oz). Has pit zips and you can also vent by unzipping the pockets. Also, can vent by unzipping the jacket and closing the front with the velcro strips.

MSRP is $99, goes on sale periodically when they change colors.

bredler
02-21-2008, 18:24
Marmot Precip is a nice waterproof breathable jacket. Lightweight (Men's Med is about 14 oz). Has pit zips and you can also vent by unzipping the pockets. Also, can vent by unzipping the jacket and closing the front with the velcro strips.

MSRP is $99, goes on sale periodically when they change colors.


I got my marmot precip for $50 used, but it was only worn like once. I really like the cut of it, it's almost like a tailored fit, but still loose enough to be comfy with some layers under it. I highly recommend it.

mudhead
02-21-2008, 18:33
Check out stuff like Marmot DriClime, and the copycats.

I have a Craft knockoff, love it.

Don't be afraid to look at windshirt pullovers. You are in a dry climate.

Summit
02-21-2008, 20:08
I vote for the Marmot Precip as well, and since you are female, here's the link:

http://www.sierratradingpost.com/p/,86415_Marmot-PreCip-Jacket-Waterproof-For-Women.html

Nice price there . . . retail is $99. I have the men's and absolutely love it. Can't go wrong with great wind/water protection, great style, great weight - 10 oz. and great price! ;)

Summit
02-21-2008, 20:11
Since size and color is limited, here's where I got mine . . . more sizes/colors, and they overnighted it to me free shipping!

http://www.basegear.com/marmot-womens-precip-jacket.html

Blissful
02-21-2008, 20:23
I really liked my Marmot windshirt. Got it on sale online for $35 or something last year.

WILLIAM HAYES
02-21-2008, 23:23
look at the montane windshirt at prolite gear. it weighs 3 oz is windproof and reasonably rainproof in light rain I think it is around 70 bucks
Hillbilly

Tinker
02-22-2008, 00:00
The Marmot Precip is light, but not noticeably breathable. The pit zips help deal with the moisture inside, but you can clearly see it on the inner coating if you perspire heavily. As a rain jacket, it's fine. In warm weather just as a windshirt, it doesn't do so well. I'd recommend a wind shirt of some type. I have a Golite Wisp, wish I'd have gotten the Ether, since it has a full zip for ventilation and a hood - good for a drizzle or fog.

desdemona
02-22-2008, 00:05
A windshirt makes sense in my sort of climate. If it were really cold, I could still wear my Landsend jacket. I am really looking for a spring, summer, and fall jacket.

I found one at Campmor for a good price.
(not quite as sweet as the $35-- but it is in season).
--des

Wags
02-22-2008, 02:54
i've seen nothing but terrible reviews about the marmot precip. are you guys sure you're talking about the same jacket?

maxNcathy
02-22-2008, 09:05
i've seen nothing but terrible reviews about the marmot precip. are you guys sure you're talking about the same jacket?

My 2 year old precip leaked when raining recently but after a NIKWAX wash in treatment it is back to keeping out the rain.

Tinker
02-22-2008, 12:35
I've owned several Precip jackets. The coating flakes off where my sweaty neck touches the interior. They usually last 2-3 seasons of regular use. Sweat seems to kill the coating.
The fabric, on the other hand, is very durable.
I may try something else next time, but, overall, I've been happy with the Precip. Just don't call it "breathable". If it is, It must be something like one percent or less. If I wear mine hiking, it is usually open in front unless it's windy (pit zips are nearly always open).

ScottP
02-22-2008, 14:50
montbell windjacket
marmot precip if you want full rain protection

Summit
02-22-2008, 19:59
i've seen nothing but terrible reviews about the marmot precip. are you guys sure you're talking about the same jacket?It is strange that there are many who swear by it and think they're the greatest thing since sliced bread, while others have a totally unfavorable experience. I wonder what could explain that? Perhaps how the jacket is cared for, stored, care taken in properly zipping and covering the zippers with the Velcro closures, etc, etc.?

Feral Bill
02-22-2008, 21:20
LL Bean Casco Bay Windbreaker. I wear an older version (slightly heavier, I think) of essentialy the same thing with great satisfaction. Not raingear, just a good wind shell.

jbentley
02-22-2008, 21:38
I've owned several Precip jackets. The coating flakes off where my sweaty neck touches the interior. They usually last 2-3 seasons of regular use. Sweat seems to kill the coating.
The fabric, on the other hand, is very durable.
I may try something else next time, but, overall, I've been happy with the Precip. Just don't call it "breathable". If it is, It must be something like one percent or less. If I wear mine hiking, it is usually open in front unless it's windy (pit zips are nearly always open).


my five year old precip. the inside coating started to flake so i sent it back to marmot. they sent me a new one. breathable they are not, but the only jackets i've ever had that would really breath, would also get you wet in the rain. so if i want to stay dry i take the precip. and sending it back every 4 or 5 years for a new one is alright for me. so i'm as happy with the precip as any rain jacket i've owned.

take-a-knee
02-22-2008, 22:39
my five year old precip. the inside coating started to flake so i sent it back to marmot. they sent me a new one. breathable they are not, but the only jackets i've ever had that would really breath, would also get you wet in the rain. so if i want to stay dry i take the precip. and sending it back every 4 or 5 years for a new one is alright for me. so i'm as happy with the precip as any rain jacket i've owned.

They do breathe, they just don't breathe fast enough to vent all of the sweat of a hiker carrying a pack up the mountain. I'm old enough to remember using (and walking in) a coated nylon cagoule, they don't breathe at all, zero, zilch. I've hunted a lot in goretex, sitting in a stand I've never had any condensation inside of it, a rubber or coated nylon jacket would be soaked inside. Some here at WB say Event is the most breathable material, but for what they cost, it would be hard for me to justify the money.

desdemona
02-23-2008, 03:07
I did get the Marmot windshirt. I don't really need a rain jacket. If I think it's going to rain I won't go out. This is day hiking. IF I get caught it would probably help a little. I'd probably find a rock and go sit under it and wait.
I got a rain poncho which is about as damp as sitting in the rain maybe.

The breathability thing is rather interesting. I would doubt the technology exists to make anything really w-b. Wouldn't one thing almost automatically almost the other (same with wind)?


As for why people would have vastly different opinions about the same thing? I think that is the definition of humanity isn't it?

--des

desdemona
03-09-2008, 17:27
The Marmot Windshirt is awesome. I was amazed at how warm I was with wind blowing (upper 40s). I think that I might still need something for when it is colder. However, I did have a polar fleece hooded jacket and t-shirt underneath.

--des

mudhead
03-09-2008, 18:47
Have you tried tights, yet? Very thin ones shed wind like crazy.

JAK
03-09-2008, 19:17
I think the best shell for day hikes is the same as for extended trips which is whatever is as cheap and light and packable as possible. Then wear a wool sweater that is not too heavy too be uncomfortable when hiking without the shell. If cold heavy rain was possible then some sort of waterproof poncho also, also as packable as possible.

The exception would be if I was deliberately going for a day hike in big ass rain. Maybe one of those oilskin types. Then I would wear a heavy raincoat right from the get go with a lighter wool sweater underneath, perhaps with a cotton undershirt under that if its just a day hike.

GGS2
03-09-2008, 19:31
Oh, my, what to wear, what to wear! There's a thread for that on the women's forum! :D Just kidding, just kidding! Wind wear really depends on the season, too. And if you are young and foolish. Runners get away with murder, like skin tight everything. Just keep warm by metabolism. If that doesn't work anymore, get an extra large wind layer for outside all the insulation, and then layer according to the climate. If it's going to be wet, use a rain layer instead.

JAK
03-09-2008, 19:52
Even on dayhikes I think it is wise to keep the skin layer and shell layer and rain layer in your pack or pockets as your extra layers and hike in your wool sweater and hiking shorts/pants and let the wind blow right through when your moving. This allows those layers to be heavier without being too warm, and your extra layers to be super packable but still be enough to make your total system super warm when it needs to be. Mitts and hat are very packable also, and the first and easiest to keep putting on and taking off to regulate heat and sweat. Brim hats are always wise options also.

This might be an oversimplification, but I think if you are hiking with the standard 2 or 3 layers most of the time then you aren't layering properly, as you will then have to carry something redundant in case you stop or it gets colder or wetter. I used to wear skin layers firstm then wind shell, then fleece or wool. Now I do just the opposite. Medium wool sweater and hiking shorts first, then polyester tights and light merino undersweater, then perhaps wind jacket and wind pants. If its winter then perhaps extra 100wt fleece layers over the others and under the wind jacket and wind pants if it gets really cold or cold and wet and you slow down to conserve energy. Many variations, but if you start with a sweater that is heavy but not too heavy most of the time when worn alone then I think thats a good start and the rest can be really packable.

Montego
03-09-2008, 21:12
Personally, I prefer Mobil to Shell :D

desdemona
03-10-2008, 00:20
Even on dayhikes I think it is wise to keep the skin layer and shell layer and rain layer in your pack or pockets as your extra layers and hike in your wool sweater and hiking shorts/pants and let the wind blow right through when your moving. This allows those layers to be heavier without being too warm, and your extra layers to be super packable but still be enough to make your total system super warm when it needs to be. Mitts and hat are very packable also, and the first and easiest to keep putting on and taking off to regulate heat and sweat. Brim hats are always wise options also.

This might be an oversimplification, but I think if you are hiking with the standard 2 or 3 layers most of the time then you aren't layering properly, as you will then have to carry something redundant in case you stop or it gets colder or wetter. I used to wear skin layers firstm then wind shell, then fleece or wool. Now I do just the opposite. Medium wool sweater and hiking shorts first, then polyester tights and light merino undersweater, then perhaps wind jacket and wind pants. If its winter then perhaps extra 100wt fleece layers over the others and under the wind jacket and wind pants if it gets really cold or cold and wet and you slow down to conserve energy. Many variations, but if you start with a sweater that is heavy but not too heavy most of the time when worn alone then I think thats a good start and the rest can be really packable.

I'd hate to hike in such polar fleece, no t-shirt, but the other point was good. But perhaps need to wear a heavier fleece or something.

The wind shirt is effective and very light. It would make a good emergency layer. Since I don't go out in the rain, I carry one of those cheap ponchos. It won't breathe and might be better to make a lean to inside a rock hide out for awhile. (It rarely rains all day).

I carried long jon tops, but it was perhaps not a good layer as I would have had to take everything else off first (minus t-shirt), but it is light. I wonder if I have that old down vest. Would be light as a feather, and very warm.


--des

desdemona
03-10-2008, 00:22
Woops no edit??
I hate wool, minus Smart Wool. What are tights?
Mobil vs Shell. Smarta**.

--des

Wags
03-10-2008, 00:30
i carry under armour cold gear crew neck top and leggings at all times - just in case

i think those are what he means by tights. something of that nature

desdemona
03-10-2008, 09:53
i carry under armour cold gear crew neck top and leggings at all times - just in case

i think those are what he means by tights. something of that nature

Hmm, looks like an idea, though not all so different than the Duofold underwear I had with me (but didn't use). Maybe just put before going down the mountain if it's at all chilly?

Would be nice to have something that would zip up?

--des

JAK
03-10-2008, 12:57
Woops no edit??
I hate wool, minus Smart Wool. What are tights?
Mobil vs Shell. Smarta**.

--desI'm not exact sure what smart wool is. Does it come from exceptionally gifted sheep? Anyhow, its a little less clammy than hiking in just fleece because it has some capacity to absorb and then later give off moisture. I used to always think synthetic skin layer under a wool sweater, but a better way to go is a merino wool skin layer or smartwool skin layer under whatever you choice is for a mid layer. I go with a medium wool sweater and only add the skin layer when needed, but if that wasn't an option for you then perhaps a really light wool skin layer under a 100 wt fleece, but then you don't have the option of adding a skin layer later because you already have it on. I've wondered how two light and loose and looser merino sweaters might work, with the option of adding a third skin layer later. I thing the arms might get heavy, so maybe one of the layers could be a vest or short sleeved. At least one of the layers should be zip neck I think.

Wags
03-10-2008, 13:31
yeah des it's pretty much the same thing. a skin tight base layer. i wear that stuff anytime i'm doing anything active. cold gear for cold, heat gear for hot. it's something worth checking out (although i'm sure the duofold does the same thing), but it dries out almost instantly (like, as soon as i take it out of the washer it's nearly dry enough to wear), packs to nothing, weighs nothing, and can dramatically change your warmth level. i work outside all year round and wear that stuff anytime it's cold enough to have long sleeves on. i know it also helps w/ cramping and pulling muscles (to a minor degree). i wear UA compression shorts anytime i'm playing sports where i'll have to sprint (football or basketball) b/c if i don't my quads will instantly ball up and i won't be able to run. tbh i have yet to find a negative about it except for the cost :D

desdemona
03-10-2008, 14:40
yeah des it's pretty much the same thing. a skin tight base layer. i wear that stuff anytime i'm doing anything active. cold gear for cold, heat gear for hot. it's something worth checking out (although i'm sure the duofold does the same thing), but it dries out almost instantly (like, as soon as i take it out of the washer it's nearly dry enough to wear), packs to nothing, weighs nothing, and can dramatically change your warmth level. i work outside all year round and wear that stuff anytime it's cold enough to have long sleeves on. i know it also helps w/ cramping and pulling muscles (to a minor degree). i wear UA compression shorts anytime i'm playing sports where i'll have to sprint (football or basketball) b/c if i don't my quads will instantly ball up and i won't be able to run. tbh i have yet to find a negative about it except for the cost :D

Duofold is warm, but it doesn't pack to nothing and weigh nothing, and it isn't too stretchy. It might be nice for something to help with straining and cramping too. I do lots of scrambling. Hard work that is.

--des

climberdave
03-10-2008, 23:17
marmot also makes an essence jkt that's basically a windshirt that's h2o proof.

JAK
03-10-2008, 23:31
The main thing I have against trade names is they hide what the material is. I know what nylon is. I know what polyester is. I know what wool is. I think that helps keep me warm somehow.

desdemona
03-10-2008, 23:57
marmot also makes an essence jkt that's basically a windshirt that's h2o proof.

I got the Marmot windshirt. It is very wind resistant. Trouble is, I was cold. I had a t-shirt (synthetic) and polar fleece zip up sweatshirt type thing. I think it was down to 40 degrees. It started out in the mid 50s and I got up to 7600 feet or so, and also got colder as it got later.
But wind resistance isn't the problem, so maybe I need to put it up as a different topic.

--des

Wags
03-11-2008, 01:15
des really give the cold gear a shot.

desdemona
03-11-2008, 17:56
des really give the cold gear a shot.

Yeah, I'm going to see what kind of prices I can get for this. Just bought a camera so...

--des

JAK
03-11-2008, 18:08
It would like to see some practical energy balance data under different situations. There are so many variables I don't think people have made too many attempts except in fairly controlled assumptions. I've heard the sun being out is worth the equivalent of 10 degrees, but I'm sure it depends on alot of other variables. Obviously the amount of exercise makes a real difference, but then there are variables related to that like how much you might be sweating and how hard you are breathing. When resting, it seems to make a real difference how long you've been resting, and whether or not you've eaten, and whether or not you are well rested or exhausted. Also whether or not a chill has set into your body, whatever the heck that is exactly. Too many variables, but it would be nice to try and quantify some of this, and figure out how much insulation is needed, and whether it actually helps sometimes to allow some air to circulate to help dry the clothing out, and how much energy it takes to warm up a frozen pair of socks and sneakers.

Wags
03-11-2008, 18:08
gonna be 45-50 bucks for the top alone, but now would be the time to catch it on sale, as the new heatgear/summerwear is in vogue atm

margo
03-12-2008, 09:37
I have both the marmot driclime windshirt and the precip. The windshirts are my favorite piece of clothing bar none!! I treated one of mine with reviveX and it has kept me dry in light rain, hadn't used it for heavy rain. I try to get them on sale. I have found a lot of variety between the different styles. The newer style fits a lot better but I havn't been able to find it on sale. I've found older styles that fit slimmer and the sleeves are longer. I also got a mens model on sale that seems totally differant than the others I have, the material is thicker and it's snugger at the bottom.

I like the precip as well, I havn't had it long but it's proven to be rainworthy. I treat all my rainwear with stuff like revivex regularly, before it wears off. I like the fit of the precip better than the other brands I tried on at the store and I tried a bunch of them on.

I am very tempted to get the lightweight windbreaker that marmot makes. It balls up small and is very light. I would use this as a windshirt only if I got it.

desdemona
03-12-2008, 10:16
I have both the marmot driclime windshirt and the precip. The windshirts are my favorite piece of clothing bar none!! I treated one of mine with reviveX and it has kept me dry in light rain, hadn't used it for heavy rain. I try to get them on sale. I have found a lot of variety between the different styles. The newer style fits a lot better but I havn't been able to find it on sale. I've found older styles that fit slimmer and the sleeves are longer. I also got a mens model on sale that seems totally differant than the others I have, the material is thicker and it's snugger at the bottom.

I like the precip as well, I havn't had it long but it's proven to be rainworthy. I treat all my rainwear with stuff like revivex regularly, before it wears off. I like the fit of the precip better than the other brands I tried on at the store and I tried a bunch of them on.

I am very tempted to get the lightweight windbreaker that marmot makes. It balls up small and is very light. I would use this as a windshirt only if I got it.

The windshirt is very nice, actually keeps you warm, except I think when I got to the summit it was 7600 feet and 40ish degrees. It is incredibly light as well--maybe 3-4 oz. I think i will use this all summer.

I don't think I am getting clothes right now except if I can find a particularly nice deal on the under armour type thing HikingPA mentions. It is about to get really warm here and I just spent about close to $200 on a camera, sales notwithstanding.
I have a couple things that might be useful, a tighter Polar fleece jacket and a polar fleece top (actually PJs, but who's going to care). The other thing, if I had put the duofold top on at the summit, I might have been better off.


--des