View Full Version : poison ivy and stealth camping
Last May was my first hike, Springer to Neel's Gap.
I was amazed at the amount of three leaf vines in the woods. Every tree had poison ivy looking vines of one or more varieties fighting for space.
I searched the forums and found links to info on the subject. It appears that about all the vines I was worried about are, in fact, poisonous varieties.
I don't want to start itching on the second or third day. How do you find a safe, poison Ivy/Oak/Sumac free stealth campsite?
Miles of Smiles,
Tom
Apparently, some things that look like poison ivy aren't. Somehow I never got a nasty case of it from the woods. My yard, on the other hand...
i too have seen alot of poison ivy climbing up large trees. i have never seen that before until moving to virginia. most of the time i have found poison ivy in very shaded areas and typically near water sources. knock on wood, i have never had an issue with the itchy stuff. now chiggers on the other hand..........
hnryclay
02-23-2008, 13:17
Make sure you aren't confusing Virginia Creeper, with Poison Ivy.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
02-23-2008, 13:32
This is a link to a quiz (http://www.poison-ivy.org/quiz/index.htm) that teaches you to spot real poison ivy and to tell it from some of its common look-a-likes.
This is a link to a quiz (http://www.poison-ivy.org/quiz/index.htm) that teaches you to spot real poison ivy and to tell it from some of its common look-a-likes.
thanks for the link, FD. having grown up in the rural south, and being sensitive to urushiol, I learned the hard way to recognize it early....
that being said, Tom, all that you saw in north GA was prolly poison ivy! there are spots on the trail in N GA where you can't walk up the trail (at least in the late summer) without brushing against it.... Another thing to remember is that even in the winter, the bare limbs / vines still carry urushiol. You can still get a case of poison ivy by wading through a patch even if there are no leaves....
another good site for info that I just googled up:
http://poisonivy.aesir.com/view
Make sure you aren't confusing Virginia Creeper, with Poison Ivy.
Beat me to it.
Not saying there isn't a lot of Poison Ivy out there, but many people confuse Poison Ivy with Virginia Creeper.
When growing as a vine, Poison Ivy has root-like tendrils that attach the vine to the tree or whatever. Virginia creeper also has tendrils that attach it, but they end in small disks, like mini suction cups. This works even in winter when there are no leaves - the stems and vines are also poisonous!
This has been the easiest way for me to distinguish the two in a hurry. Virginia Creeper is not poisonous.
Wise Old Owl
02-23-2008, 14:09
Here in PA we have Mile o Minute and Wild Grape all over the place, and they are non poisonous. cant miss poison ivy.
Being highly allergic (I get such bad reactions I have to go get steriod shots!) I am convinced there is an invisible form of ivy out there.
Being highly allergic (I get such bad reactions I have to go get steriod shots!) I am convinced there is an invisible form of ivy out there.
..chuckle...same here! Altho' it's been several decades since I had a really bad case (knock on wood....). I have read somewhere that in the summer if it's really hot and humid that the urushiol can actually evaporate and hang in the humidity around the plant - ending up on your leg / pants / shoe as you walk by even tho you don't actually touch the plant.....the joys of living in the south!
shelterbuilder
02-23-2008, 19:11
...and petting the dog that has just walked through poison ivy is another good way to get it.
The secton that I maintain (west of William Penn shelter) seems to have a lot more of the stuff now than it did 20 years ago - I wonder if that has anything to do with the gypsy moths killing off large sections of the forest canopy and allowing more sunlight to penetrate to the ground?
I'll just add a plug for Zanfel here. Was recommended to me by an Emergency Physician (Enough) during his '06 through hike. Is expensive, but works GREAT and FAST.
I am always careful when scoping out a camping spot. I can look at posion ivy wrong and break out in it.:eek:
shelterbuilder
02-23-2008, 20:31
I'll just add a plug for Zanfel here. Was recommended to me by an Emergency Physician (Enough) during his '06 through hike. Is expensive, but works GREAT and FAST.
I've heard of "Tec-nu" but not Zanfel. What is it - is it new?
In 'o6 it was fairly new. It's a paste, used in the shower. The directions:
1) Wet the affected area
2) Squeeze 1 1/2 inches of Zanfel onto one palm
3) Wet both hands and rub the product into a paste. (This activates the ingredients. Do not bypass or modify this step.)
4) Rub both hands (up to 3 min. if needed) on the affected area, working Zanfel into the skin until there is no sign of itching (15 seconds is typical if mild to moderate reaction).
5) Rinse area throughly. If the itch returns (which could be several hours later), rewash, following steps 1-5 and read the Q&A insert found in the package.
I have never had to re-wash, but I don't get extremely bad reactions. It feels SOOOOO good while you are applying it! Then the itch is gone, and soon the rash itself. Worked wonders for me.
Con: $30 for a one ounce tube in '06
shelterbuilder
02-23-2008, 20:55
In 'o6 it was fairly new. It's a paste, used in the shower. The directions:
1) Wet the affected area
2) Squeeze 1 1/2 inches of Zanfel onto one palm
3) Wet both hands and rub the product into a paste. (This activates the ingredients. Do not bypass or modify this step.)
4) Rub both hands (up to 3 min. if needed) on the affected area, working Zanfel into the skin until there is no sign of itching (15 seconds is typical if mild to moderate reaction).
5) Rinse area throughly. If the itch returns (which could be several hours later), rewash, following steps 1-5 and read the Q&A insert found in the package.
I have never had to re-wash, but I don't get extremely bad reactions. It feels SOOOOO good while you are applying it! Then the itch is gone, and soon the rash itself. Worked wonders for me.
Con: $30 for a one ounce tube in '06
Is this stuff non-prescription? Available in the chain drug stores?
shelterbuilder
02-23-2008, 21:45
Yep and Yep
Thanks - I'll look for it.
Watch where you hang your hammock in Georgia!
I noticed all the poison ivy vine in 2006. I had a tent.
There's one overlooked reason not to hammock. For some reason, there isn't much poison ivy along the AT in New England. Must be the climate (you will find it in gaps here).
littlelaurel59
02-24-2008, 08:21
Being highly allergic (I get such bad reactions I have to go get steriod shots!) I am convinced there is an invisible form of ivy out there.
My brother was so allergic when we were growing up that we used to say that if anyone SAID the word "poison ivy" he would break out!
Toolshed
02-24-2008, 11:18
Great site FD. I appreciate it.
What the HECK!!! All I did was to type about Ivy... Honest to goodness, I have not been anywhere, and I have some small patches on my forearm!!! Really!!!
tinker,
I don't see the tent as superior to a hammock in the heavy poison ivy areas. I would feel no safer inside a tent with the poison ivy thriving right outside the walls. (can you tell I'm a Hammocker??)
I would like to add that although poison ivy is almost everywhere along the trail, in the shelter areas there is NONE. What a tribute to the trail maintainers. Being immune to the stuff must be a requirement to be one of them.
Back to my original question. It appears that there is no way. you cannot stealth camp where the ivy is flourishing.
miles of smiles
Tom
scavenger
02-24-2008, 12:52
Kudzu looks like a bigger version of poison ivy and that **** really will spread everywhere
saimyoji
02-24-2008, 13:23
Being highly allergic (I get such bad reactions I have to go get steriod shots!) I am convinced there is an invisible form of ivy out there.
What the HECK!!! All I did was to type about Ivy... Honest to goodness, I have not been anywhere, and I have some small patches on my forearm!!! Really!!!
If you're being totally honest about this...which I believe you are....it just may be psychosomatic: seek psychiatric help. Like that old MASH episode where Hawkeye has an allergic reaction to the smell of wet burlap...turned out his buddy pushed him out of the boat and then claimed to save his life.......you get the point. :cool:
Dirtygaiters
02-24-2008, 15:38
Last May was my first hike, Springer to Neel's Gap.
I was amazed at the amount of three leaf vines in the woods. Every tree had poison ivy looking vines of one or more varieties fighting for space.
I searched the forums and found links to info on the subject. It appears that about all the vines I was worried about are, in fact, poisonous varieties.
I don't want to start itching on the second or third day. How do you find a safe, poison Ivy/Oak/Sumac free stealth campsite?
Miles of Smiles,
Tom
All you have to do is not be allergic to it. :cool:
dessertrat
02-24-2008, 17:59
It is unfortunately pretty hard to identify it sometimes, as Dino's website shows. I just stay away from anything that might be poison ivy. That does, I admit, make it hard to stealth camp in certain areas. I think I am nearly immune to it anyway. I have been quite certain that I had heavy contact with it, only to have mild itching later rather than serious rash.
tinker,
I don't see the tent as superior to a hammock in the heavy poison ivy areas. I would feel no safer inside a tent with the poison ivy thriving right outside the walls. (can you tell I'm a Hammocker??)
Tom
I got the itch while in GSMNP in October... I was hammocking. The only possibility was that my straps touched it one day, and then I touched the straps... you get the idea. If I was in a tent, I probably would not have been in contact with the tree... I still hammock!
Kudzu looks like a bigger version of poison ivy and that **** really will spread everywhere
KUDZU: the vine that ate the south!
OregonHiker
02-24-2008, 18:16
Being highly allergic (I get such bad reactions I have to go get steriod shots!) I am convinced there is an invisible form of ivy out there.
Me too. been to the doctor multiple times. had a job where I knew I was going to be in it and get it. Itching from 2000 miles away. Sumac too. None of that in the west, but there is poison oak.
Time to take a bath in Technu cuz I feel an itch coming on:mad:
If you're being totally honest about this...which I believe you are....it just may be psychosomatic: seek psychiatric help.
Sadly, its the truth. However, I did a back track to find the source... I was out Friday taking pictures of the creek that runs thru my back yard. My cats followed me, went off running about... Theres little ivy on my side of the fence, but on the other side... wow, lots. I think one of the cats ran thru it, then came home and wanted to be held... I did not have direct contact with it... This sucks!
Dirtygaiters
02-24-2008, 18:38
Those websites do a good job of confusing people about how to identify poison ivy, unfortunately. Yes poison ivy can have highly variable growth forms and yes its leaves can have quite a range in size, as well as a range in toothing. But- if you learn to recognize some of the plant's typical leaf characteristics, it's really not that hard. Here's how I remember it and how I differentiate it from look-alikes:
1) Poison ivy has leaves divided into three leaflets. This may seem elementary to some, but some people have trouble with this. You should see a bud in between the entire leaf and the stem, but there won't be buds in between each leaflet. Poison ivy has pinnately compound leaves (http://z.about.com/d/forestry/1/0/H/7/1compound_leaf.jpg). Here's (http://z.about.com/d/forestry/1/0/I/7/2compound_leaf.jpg) another picture with a diagram showing the difference between a compound leaf and a simple leaf.
2) Poison ivy (http://www.sfrc.ufl.edu/4h/Poison_ivy/toxradts.jpg) leaves are arranged alternately (http://www.ecy.wa.gov/programs/wq/plants/plantid2/drawings/drawing_alternate.html) on the stem. By contrast, box elder (http://www.rbnc.org/images/trees/BEpet.jpg) (like all maples) has opposite (http://www.ecy.wa.gov/programs/wq/plants/plantid2/drawings/drawing_opposite.html) leaf arrangement. Thus, if you see something with three toothed leaflets, but its leaves are arranged opposite on the stem, it is not poison ivy.
3) The middle leaflet is held extended (http://www.ppws.vt.edu/scott/weed_id/poisonivy8-11b.jpg) on a "stalk" away from the lower two (actually an extension of the midvein). By contrast, Fragrant sumac (http://classes.hortla.wsu.edu/hort231/List05/Slide1.jpg) and various other shrubs with 3 leaflets (such as clover (http://www.dgsgardening.btinternet.co.uk/clover.JPG)) hold their middle leaflet closer to the lower leaflets--without a "stalk".
4) Poison ivy can have smooth leaf margins or toothed leaf margins, but the margins are never serrated (http://farm1.static.flickr.com/165/402236877_1936aa3d7e.jpg), and the plants never have thorns of any type. If a plant has either serrated leaf margins or thorns, it is not poison ivy.
5) Poison ivy have small, nondescript, greenish to yellow flowers (http://www.wildmanstevebrill.com/JPEG'S/Plant%20Web%20Images/PoisonIvyFlowers.jpg) and small greenish to white berries bourne in small or large clusters (http://biology.missouristate.edu/Herbarium/Plants%20of%20the%20Interior%20Highlands/Flowers/Toxicodendron%20radicans,%20fruit.JPG). Any other type of fruit or flower observed on the plant and it's not poison ivy.
6) In the winter, poison ivy can sometimes be recognized by its hairy stems, especially if you're looking at a vine clinging to a tree. The plants don't always have hairy stems, even when they grow as vines up trees. In general, though, if it's winter and the vine has no leaves, but has stems, try not to touch it because the stems and roots contain the toxin as well.
Virginia creeper (http://condor.wesleyan.edu/soconnell/wescourses/2003s/ees199/finalprojects/Marion_Banks_page/virtual_tour/images/virginia%20creepercrop.jpg) plants are harmless and have more than three leaflets (often five) so most people shouldn't have trouble identifying that a Virginia creeper plant is not poison ivy. However, if you see a tree with leaves similar to Virginia creeper, it may be horse chestnut (http://www.hainaultforest.co.uk/Leaf%20Horse%20chestnut.JPG) which has very poisonous fruits. So don't eat it just because it's not poison ivy!
I lucked out with the eastern-european (specifically German for me) trait of being poison ivy immune. I can pick the stuff up and smash it up between my hands and get nothing.
anyone else?
I lucked out with the eastern-european (specifically German for me) trait of being poison ivy immune. I can pick the stuff up and smash it up between my hands and get nothing.
anyone else?
This can change!
I didn't get my first reaction till I was in my 30's. I wouldn't be tempting fate by showing off. :D
thats what I thought!!!
My house (used to be my grandmothers) I had been coming here for years for summer. NEVER had a problem. Moved here, found out the hard way, I had developed the allergy... my mom still has no reaction to it...
This can change!
I didn't get my first reaction till I was in my 30's. I wouldn't be tempting fate by showing off. :D
Hmmm :-?... I don't "show it off" per say, but occasionally people won't believe me and I'll rub a little on my leg then wash my hands just in case. Although I'm not too concerned, my dad and his whole family are still immune and my dad is 66.
Although I can see how a mis-step with this could lead to some interesting consequences:D
OregonHiker
02-24-2008, 19:07
I lucked out with the eastern-european (specifically German for me) trait of being poison ivy immune. I can pick the stuff up and smash it up between my hands and get nothing.
anyone else?
That would probably put me in the hospital
hopefulhiker
02-24-2008, 19:18
There are plenty of campsites in the south, that are not stealth but not at a shelter either...
Hmmm :-?... I don't "show it off" per say, but occasionally people won't believe me and I'll rub a little on my leg then wash my hands just in case. Although I'm not too concerned, my dad and his whole family are still immune and my dad is 66.
Although I can see how a mis-step with this could lead to some interesting consequences:D
My dad, a country boy (now 72) had never had it, until....
He was golfing - prolly 30 yrs ago now. Had an "emergency." Took off for the trees. Squatted, quickly did his download, then wiped with those nice shiny leaves that were all around him.....
He had his first case, and it wasn't pretty (especially after he went home and gave it to my mom :eek:)
The theory I've read is that everyone is born with some level of immunity, which declines with exposure.....
Leaves of three, leave them be.
Easy to teach to kids.
Dirtygaiters
02-24-2008, 19:59
How many people here are kids, though?
(probably shouldn't have asked that)...
I missed two of the test FD put up. Both were innocent. I like easy, kid approved ways to stay out of the nasties. I have a hard time with some snakes. I just leave them all alone.