View Full Version : When do you really call for help? New Hamshire
Wise Old Owl
02-27-2008, 00:06
(SHORT VERSION) continuing the fine Up to $10,000
Provided you follow the code of safe hiking practices and not consciously disregarding safety practices in New Hampshire, You will not be fined.
http://www.wildlife.state.nh.us/Outd...ing_safety.htm (http://www.wildlife.state.nh.us/Outdoor_Recreation/hiking_safety.htm)
Since 1999 to date SAR have only fined some 15 groups or individuals in NH for reckless disregard for personal safety. A very low number.
The upcoming legislation is about funding the activity's of SAR. The burden of funding or contribution in rough numbers is $1 out of each Fishing license, Quad or ATV, license or Hunting license. Out of those groups that contribute to the fund of Search & Rescue they only reap 10-12% need to be rescued. On the other hand these groups and individuals have noticed that Hikers are 60% in need of rescue and currently contribute nothing. The legislation is looking into lowering the bar from Reckless disregard to Negligence/Poor decision making, to levy new fines for people hiking in New Hampshire that are not following the rules adopted by Safe Hiker. The process is to recoup some of the losses that are currently burdened by the taxpayer and licensed groups.
There won't be any changes unless the bill is adopted into law, and that might happen this summer.
The verbal source is the New Hampshire Fish & Game Dept.
On a side note - if you sprain your leg you are expected by many SARS to solve it yourself - to be able to make it out yourself.
Do you know how many people have actually been fined?
My first question was what is the Safe Hiker rules? Found this...
You are responsible for yourself, so be prepared:
1. With knowledge and gear. Become self reliant by learning about the terrain, conditions, local weather and your equipment before you start.
2. To leave your plans. Tell someone where you are going, the trails you are hiking, when you will return and your emergency plans.
3. To stay together. When you start as a group, hike as a group, end as a group. Pace your hike to the slowest person.
4. To turn back. Weather changes quickly in the mountains. Fatigue and unexpected conditions can also affect your hike. Know your limitations and when to postpone your hike. The mountains will be there another day.
5. For emergencies. Even if you are headed out for just an hour, an injury, severe weather or a wrong turn could become life threatening. Don’t assume you will be rescued; know how to rescue yourself.
6. To share the hiker code with others.
Found it here: http://www.hikesafe.com/index.php/hiker_responsibility_code
So even if the hiker is prepared, but the weather turns to crap, the hiker is responsible? Hmm, thats odd...
I think you should use the common sense approach... if the person who needs rescue was unprepared, ignored the fact they may be in danger and didn't make an attempt to turn back then the cost should come out of pocket.
What do the parking fees we pay for in NH go towards? Is the money collected stay within the national forest department, not helping out when it comes to search and rescue?
I am curious as to the % of rescued persons that donate to SAR.
Seems like it would be the thing to do...
doggiebag
02-27-2008, 10:20
For around $329.- a year you can buy rescue insurance from: http://www.globalrescue.com/affinity/AAC/AAC.html
Which I believe covers up to 500K in rescue costs. Short term plans are available as well. You do need to be a member of the American Alpine Club. The've done over 5,000 rescues all over the world and they have no restrictions on activity or locations 24/7 365 days a year. Just something to consider. They'll even transport Mortal remains :eek:
So even if the hiker is prepared, but the weather turns to crap, the hiker is responsible? Hmm, thats odd...What usually happens is that the weather turns bad and the hiker needing rescue was:
a) not prepared for bad weather. The forecast was sunny so they only brought light gear, not gear in case the weather turned to crap
b) in almost every rescue the people gong up were met by several parties going down telling them it was getting bad up top and they went anyway.
And few rescuees were prepared to survive a night out should they become lost/stranded, etc.
The onus really should be on the hiker. It shouldn't be, "well, it's not Frosty's fault the weather turned bad. THe town of Randolf and state of NH should send out people to save him at the town/state expense.
The WHite Mtns are dangerous. A certain acceptance of risk is involved in hiking. A lot of risk is involved in the winter.
It is people who are unprepared that cause the problems, and still almost no one is ever fined.
Who determines a person needs to be "rescued?" If a person calls for help, yes. What if they are an hour late reporting in and a frantic relative calls in, but in reality the hiker only took a longer lunch break, a nap, stopped more times than planned to take photos, chatted with numerous hikers... then what?
notorius tic
02-27-2008, 14:00
I deem that any one that walks to the top off a mountain unprepared is some not prepared to get back down therfore deemed bye common mans judgment "SUICIDAL"
Some of it might be unwillingness to plant your butt, and think.
And then be a sissy and come back another time.
I enjoy the smile some people get when discussing various bailouts.
Some get it, some don't.
overmywaders
02-27-2008, 19:10
Just a little correction of fact on the NH "fines". Folks at the F&G department confer about each of the rescues and determine whether they want to collect the actual cost (nothing more, unless court costs are necessary), not to exceed $10,000.
When persons in NH, or others acting on their behalf, call for rescue, they are entering into a legal contract (implied) - just the same as if they called for an ambulance. However, unlike the ambulance, the state may decide to absorb the costs of rescue.
The rescue costs cannot be paid by an insurance company.
"RSA 153-A:25 Collections; Insurance. – The response expense shall be a debt owed by the person responsible and shall not be paid by an insurance company. The public agency which incurred the expense may collect the debt in the same manner as in the case of an obligation under a contract, expressed or implied. Public agency expenses may include reasonable attorney fees."
So, buying rescue insurance will do you no good in NH.
Darwin again
02-27-2008, 20:00
Charging for rescues is a tax on stupidity.
Glad to see it.
When to call for help? When you are craving a pizza real bad? :D At $10K it better be very good pizza! :p
Many years ago I hauled my butt out of Desolation Wilderness near Lake Tahoe in the Sierra Nevadas, after waking up to deteriorating weather. It was snowing pretty hard and the trail was getting difficult to follow when I reached my car. Next day at home in Sacramento, I heard on the news they found two hiker's bodies about 1/2 mile from where my car was parked at the trailhead. There had been blizzard white-out conditions.
If I had been a few miles further in, I would have just pitched my tent and road it out. I was prepared and had actually done just that once up in the Salmon-Trinity Alps in Northern California. Next morning when I woke up, my tent was almost buried. It was quite warm in the tent with all that snow turning my tent into an ice cave. Quite a thrilling experience, actually. ;)