Make my Photos Purdy

[Johnny Thunder]

Anyone have tips on how to make purdy pictures with a run-of-the-mill point-and-shoot digi cam?

So far I can make two types of nice pictures...

Type 1: Bunch of my guy/girl friends at the bar throwing up gang symbols or pointing and making faces.

Type 2: Those pictures where you hold out the camera with one arm and take a self portrait (destined to be a MySpace profile picture). You know the type; flattering angles and a pouty face.

So, what can I do with Canon Powershot to make some nice 'uns. As of right now it's a crap shoot. Eh oh!

[warraghiyagey]

Anyone have tips on how to make purdy pictures with a run-of-the-mill point-and-shoot digi cam?

So far I can make two types of nice pictures...

Type 1: Bunch of my guy/girl friends at the bar throwing up gang symbols or pointing and making faces.

Type 2: Those pictures where you hold out the camera with one arm and take a self portrait (destined to be a MySpace profile picture). You know the type; flattering angles and a pouty face.

So, what can I do with Canon Powershot to make some nice 'uns. As of right now it's a crap shoot. Eh oh!

Hey JT,
Good question - first (and I know this sounds geeky) but read your owners manual and find out exactly what your camera can do.
Then go take some shots that you simply enjoy the beauty of near you and play with your zoom and framing the shot in different ways. It's a trial and error process to find your own style and to reflect in your photos how you see the beauty.
Then - get yourself a copy of photoshop and spend a little time playing around with it. You'll be amazed by the richness and contrast that can be added to your photos with this program.
Mostly - if your photo doesn't look like what you saw when you took the shot, sometimes just adding or subtracting contrast, sharpness, light, hue or tint will bring out of your image what you saw. Sometimes it will make it even better.
Enjoy your photos.:sun

[rafe]

Assuming you're at all serious....

When you see a photo you like, ask yourself, what makes it work? What do I like about it. Emulate the works that you like. You will fail more often than you succeed; that's just the way it is, unless you're born with natural talent -- in which case you wouldn't be asking, would you? :)

Two photographers whose works on the AT are (IMO) quite gorgeous: David Muench and Jerry Greer. You can find nice stuff by either one on the web. Muench (and his son) have many books and are widely published. Greer has done many photos over the years for the ATC calendars.

Do not expect to emulate their photos with a small point-and-shoot. Even so, you can learn a lot about composition, lighting, etc.

[Gray Blazer]

The good thing about digi's is the delete button. Get yourself a memory card with lots of space.Take about 100 shots (MOL, YMMV) of the same subject. You're bound to get one or two good ones, then delete the rest. Try to keep the camera still when taking the photos. Play around. As a last resort (:D) read your owner's manual.

[Johnny Thunder]

Hey JT,
Good question - first (and I know this sounds geeky) but read your owners manual and find out exactly what your camera can do.
Then go take some shots that you simply enjoy the beauty of near you and play with your zoom and framing the shot in different ways. It's a trial and error process to find your own style and to reflect in your photos how you see the beauty.
Then - get yourself a copy of photoshop and spend a little time playing around with it. You'll be amazed by the richness and contrast that can be added to your photos with this program.
Mostly - if your photo doesn't look like what you saw when you took the shot, sometimes just adding or subtracting contrast, sharpness, light, hue or tint will bring out of your image what you saw. Sometimes it will make it even better.
Enjoy your photos.:sun

Thanks for the info...I am pretty familiar with the manual but after a recent trip to Ireland, where some photos are amazing and others are mediocre, i just felt that I was doing it wrong. Maybe Photoshop is the answer. I was just looking over Jamie Compos LT photos and was blown away.

Here's the one pic I have saved on my work comp that is up to snuff. Besides using the "magic hour" lighting what else did I do right (by accident)?

[Gray Blazer]

One of the things I learned about taking mountain shots is try to point the camera down a little. I have a copla early shots in my WB Gallery that are about 10% mountains and 90% blue sky.

[Midway Sam]

Maybe Photoshop is the answer.

I'm not trying to be an ass, but Photoshop will not compensate for a lack of skill. Photoshop is just like the camera you already own, a tool to use to achieve great photos. However, just like the camera, it requires skill and knowledge on how to use it. A great photographer uses Photoshop in subtle ways to enhance an already great image.

You need to learn photography. Take a course at a local camera shop/community college. Find a local photo club. Buy some beginners books. I suggest you start here:

http://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Exposure-Photographs-Digital-Updated/dp/0817463003/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1204127358&sr=8-1

[Johnny Thunder]

I'm not trying to be an ass, but Photoshop will not compensate for a lack of skill. Photoshop is just like the camera you already own, a tool to use to achieve great photos. However, just like the camera, it requires skill and knowledge on how to use it. A great photographer uses Photoshop in subtle ways to enhance an already great image.

You need to learn photography. Take a course at a local camera shop/community college. Find a local photo club. Buy some beginners books. I suggest you start here:

http://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Exposure-Photographs-Digital-Updated/dp/0817463003/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1204127358&sr=8-1


Sam, You're 100% right. No offense taken. I was just looking for a few pointers...I'm not going to be able take a class before I leave for my thru attempt.

But stuff like Gray Blazer's advice is super helpful. Or if someone told me the key was to set the camera to sephia and then stand on my left foot and rotate slowly in a counter clockwise fashion, I'd probably try that too.

[warraghiyagey]

Besides using the "magic hour" lighting what else did I do right (by accident)?

Subject/Framing the shot:)

[doggiebag]

Make sure you drag around a little portable tripod (I personally use the Gorilla tripod) you can wrap the legs around brush and even your hiking pole. It will assist in group shot's or self portraits in conjunction with your timer. I also try to time my hikes (nothing too obcessive) so that I am summiting or getting close to a nice geographic point at sunset or dawn - when the colors are the coolest. I always have my camera handy for those once in a lifetime shots (I actually got a picture of a bobcat last year). Just be aware that you can always delete pictures from a digital camera ... so shoot away. I usually delete about 5 pictures for anyone that I keep. The trail and it's vista's has a good way of compensating for my amateur picture taking.

[rafe]

Subject/Framing the shot:)

The framing's OK, but not great. (Normally you don't want the horizon running smack through the center of the image.)

The horizon is a bit crooked, but that could be fixed in Photoshop. It appears to be a bit out of focus. The lighting and mood are very nice. Bad weather often makes for good photos. (And pure blue skies often make for dull, clichéd photos.)

[Johnny Thunder]

The framing's OK, but not great. (Normally you don't want the horizon running smack through the center of the image.)

The horizon is a bit crooked, but that could be fixed in Photoshop. It appears to be a bit out of focus. The lighting and mood are very nice. Bad weather often makes for good photos. (And pure blue skies often make for dull, clichéd photos.)


Thanks for the input...the focus on the actual shot is nice...the image resizer I used is not a fine tool.

[Wedge1173]

I am in the middle of taking a digi-camera class. Here are a few quick pointers for making better pictures.

If your camera has a Auto Programmed mode. use it.

The Rule of Thirds. Don't put your subject directly in the middle of your shot. Imagine a tic tac toe grid on your viewfinder. Keep horizons in the upper third of the frame or the lower third.

fill your frame. Look at all the empty space around your subject. Ask yourself if it serves a purpose in the shot. Eliminate it if doesn't.

Use Leading Lines. They will pull the eye into the picture. Like the trail winding up a hill or a stream.

Hope this helps. I know it has helped my photos. Good luck with your hike.

[warraghiyagey]

The framing's OK, but not great. (Normally you don't want the horizon running smack through the center of the image.)

The horizon is a bit crooked, but that could be fixed in Photoshop. It appears to be a bit out of focus. The lighting and mood are very nice. Bad weather often makes for good photos. (And pure blue skies often make for dull, clichéd photos.)
The horizon line is nominal in the photo as that the true subject of the photo is the building. Without a lift or tree perch or some such the horizon really can't be manipulated. Additionally the reflection of the sky in the water and the straight on view of it are exquisite. It's framed very nicely.

[Wedge1173]

Oh and one other thing. If your camera has a exposure compensation feature. Learn how to use it.

[SouthMark]

Sam, you are absolutely right. I am a graphic designer and own an advertising agency. I constantly deal with clients that think that they can use their little point and shoot digital cameras to do their own advertising photography and save money because we can perform some kind of magic with Photoshop. Pure false economy! As the old saying goes "you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear."

[warraghiyagey]

Oh and one other thing. If your camera has a exposure compensation feature. Learn how to use it.
Excellent tip - especially for dark or night shots.

[Tipi Walter]

I'm no expert on digital cameras but I do take a lot of shots while out backpacking. My biggest problem is getting crisp, focused shots. When I look at the focus options(Multi AF, Center AF, Spot AF, .5m,1.0m, etc)it all becomes befuddled.

And the metering mode of multi, center or spot? Who knows what this means?

And how does ISO affect a picture at Auto versus 200 or 1000?

[rafe]

Thanks for the input...the focus on the actual shot is nice...the image resizer I used is not a fine tool.

Good, glad to hear it. It takes a particular talent (or an equipment failure) to screw up focus at infinity. Get yourself a decent photo editor program. Photoshop Elements, Paintshop Pro. Or this freebie: paint.net (http://www.getpaint.net/) ("kludos" to Sly for digging that one up.) Don't waste your time with sub-par software tools.

[warraghiyagey]

I'm no expert on digital cameras but I do take a lot of shots while out backpacking. My biggest problem is getting crisp, focused shots. When I look at the focus options(Multi AF, Center AF, Spot AF, .5m,1.0m, etc)it all becomes befuddled.

And the metering mode of multi, center or spot? Who knows what this means?

And how does ISO affect a picture at Auto versus 200 or 1000?

Again, reading the users manual more than once will make a huge difference with this understanding. I've probably read mine 15 times and I still refer to it when trying to get the perfect shot in a particualr setting. Looking forward to the day when that is all second hand and I can just take the shot I want with total comfort with all the settings.

[rafe]

I'm no expert on digital cameras but I do take a lot of shots while out backpacking. My biggest problem is getting crisp, focused shots. When I look at the focus options(Multi AF, Center AF, Spot AF, .5m,1.0m, etc)it all becomes befuddled.

And the metering mode of multi, center or spot? Who knows what this means?

And how does ISO affect a picture at Auto versus 200 or 1000?

It might not be focus that's screwing you up, but camera motion. (Or a dirty lens!)

Metering: there's no free lunch. Digital cameras (and all film) has a limited dynamic range. If the contrast in the scene is too high, some part of the image will go to pure white or pure black. The trick is to shoot in the right kind of lighting. The metering options give you various "rules" for managing excess contrast, that's all. (Johny Thunder's photo "works" in part because of the subdued lighting.)

ISO: the higher the ISO, the more noise. Digital "noise" looks something like film grain. You'll notice none of that in professional landscape photos.

Trouble is, shooting with lower ISO means using a tripod. That's too much trouble for most folks, and hard to do while thru-hiking.

[Wise Old Owl]

Thanks for the info...I am pretty familiar with the manual but after a recent trip to Ireland, where some photos are amazing and others are mediocre, i just felt that I was doing it wrong. Maybe Photoshop is the answer. I was just looking over Jamie Compos LT photos and was blown away.

Here's the one pic I have saved on my work comp that is up to snuff. Besides using the "magic hour" lighting what else did I do right (by accident)?

Here is the same pic "Photoshopped" Added detail and pushed colors

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg275/MarkSwarbrick/ireland_1024x575.jpg
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg275/MarkSwarbrick/ireland_1024x575.jpg

Something in the Website is making this image too big so I included where I saved it on the internet for retrival. When you pull it off it should go back to normal size and look better.

[warraghiyagey]

Nice work Owl and a great illustratrion of the abilities of photoshopping, however the gothic feel is gone with the brightness. Photoshop expirementing is fun and there are applications where that darker feel could be retained while improving the contrast.

[budforester]

Thanks for the info...I am pretty familiar with the manual but after a recent trip to Ireland, where some photos are amazing and others are mediocre, i just felt that I was doing it wrong. Maybe Photoshop is the answer. I was just looking over Jamie Compos LT photos and was blown away.

Here's the one pic I have saved on my work comp that is up to snuff. Besides using the "magic hour" lighting what else did I do right (by accident)?
Nice photo. I’m no artist; I take multiple shots, move to different angles, brace the camera, watch the light, apply the delete button liberally, and sometimes get a picture that pleases me. I agree with what’s been said… go take some pictures. It doesn’t have to be anything special. Keep your camera handy, study results, keep notes on what you liked or didn’t like. In your photo, here’s what I notice.

Sky is interesting.
Castle is not dead- center.
Camera is steady enough for sharp image.
Light is soft and from side angle.
Quiet water gives reflection.
View is not cluttered with distractions.
There is a horizon and sense of depth.

[Midway Sam]

Sorry Owl, but for my eye your version looks very "Photoshopped". Lots of artifacting around the building and the colors seem freakishly unnatural (which may be the look you were going after). It has lost it's flair in my book.

[Wise Old Owl]

Nice work Owl and a great illustratrion of the abilities of photoshopping, however the gothic feel is gone with the brightness. Photoshop expirementing is fun and there are applications where that darker feel could be retained while improving the contrast.

Yea I see what you mean, I was going for a "Travel Postcard" look. The funny part was I didn't mess with the Brightness or Contrast, I simply pushed the blue water, sky and green grass.

[warraghiyagey]

Yea I see what you mean, I was going for a "Travel Postcard" look. The funny part was I didn't mess with the Brightness or Contrast, I simply pushed the blue water, sky and green grass.
Yup. Photo shop can be as much of an art as taking the photo itself, but it cleaned up the photo in a way that is viscerally pleasing, especially if you didn't see the original it would be a nice shot. You did the phot good justice and there are innumerable ways to play with that or any photo that will give the same shot a different feel.
Wondering what touches Dino would add.
I'd actually darken the photo a little and work the sharpness a touch for starters. The shot certainly will be fun to play with.

[Gray Blazer]

Make sure you drag around a little portable tripod (I personally use the Gorilla tripod) you can wrap the legs around brush and even your hiking pole. It will assist in group shot's or self portraits in conjunction with your timer. I also try to time my hikes (nothing too obcessive) so that I am summiting or getting close to a nice geographic point at sunset or dawn - when the colors are the coolest. I always have my camera handy for those once in a lifetime shots (I actually got a picture of a bobcat last year). Just be aware that you can always delete pictures from a digital camera ... so shoot away. I usually delete about 5 pictures for anyone that I keep. The trail and it's vista's has a good way of compensating for my amateur picture taking.

That's me exactly except for the Bobcat.

That just made me think of something else. If necessary, consult your manual to turn off any sounds the camera makes when turning on. I missed a pic of a face to face encounter with a mama bear one time because the camera sang it's 5 note song when it went on and scared the scat out of her.

[warraghiyagey]

That's me exactly except for the Bobcat.

That just made me think of something else. If necessary, consult your manual to turn off any sounds the camera makes when turning on. I missed a pic of a face to face encounter with a mama bear one time because the camera sang it's 5 note song when it went on and scared the scat out of her.
So you got a picture of bear poop instead??


http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/laughing013.gif

[Wise Old Owl]

Sorry Owl, but for my eye your version looks very "Photoshopped". Lots of artifacting around the building and the colors seem freakishly unnatural (which may be the look you were going after). It has lost it's flair in my book.

The real issue here is the picture we are playing with does not have enough data size and when we pull though the internet like this something is lost. If I was working the original and we were not using the website you wouldn't see the artifacts.

[Gray Blazer]

Wondering what touches Dino would add.

The shot certainly will be fun to play with.
She'd add an image of herself as a Dino dancing with Barney and a lot of Druids or Mel Gibson.

[Jason of the Woods]

I say just point and click. I have an el cheapo Kodak Easyshare and have taken pictures that I am putting in future art shows. Crazy, I know!

[warraghiyagey]

The real issue here is the picture we are playing with does not have enough data size and when we pull though the internet like this something is lost. If I was working the original and we were not using the website you wouldn't see the artifacts.
The force is strong with this one.
http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/sw025.gif

[Gray Blazer]

So you got a picture of bear poop instead??


http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/laughing013.gif
Figuratively. :p

[Gray Blazer]

I say just point and click. I have an el cheapo Kodak Easyshare and have taken pictures that I am putting in future art shows. Crazy, I know!

Me, too. Like I said if you take a 100 pics of something, you're bound to get 2 or 3 good ones.

[warraghiyagey]

Me, too. Like I said if you take a 100 pics of something, you're bound to get 2 or 3 good ones.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day.:)

[The Old Fhart]

Sometimes even the most mundane of subjects can be presented in a way to make them interesting. This is kind of a different perspective of my cat.3457 (click to see full size)

[Gray Blazer]

Sometimes even the most mundane of subjects can be presented in a way to make them interesting. This is kind of a different perspective of my cat.3457 (click to see full size)
Old Fhart has about THE BEST photo galley on WB! Check it out. We all can learn from him. (OF, when do I get my check?)

[Wise Old Owl]

Brightness reduced 15% & 50% size reduction for the website
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg275/MarkSwarbrick/ireland_1024x575a.jpg

[Midway Sam]

Does anyone else keep thinking about the Castle Anthrax?

"Yes! A spanking! A spanking!"

[warraghiyagey]

Brightness reduced 15% & 50% size reduction for the website
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg275/MarkSwarbrick/ireland_1024x575a.jpg
Nice work OWl. Definitely getting the feel.

[doggiebag]

Yea I see what you mean, I was going for a "Travel Postcard" look. The funny part was I didn't mess with the Brightness or Contrast, I simply pushed the blue water, sky and green grass.
That is some good work WOO!

[Wise Old Owl]

Does anyone else keep thinking about the Castle Anthrax?

"Yes! A spanking! A spanking!"
At first I forgot the Monty Python reference - I was thinking of adding a Nessie!

[warraghiyagey]

At first I forgot the Monty Python reference - I was thinking of adding a Nessie!
If it's all the same to you Owl, I think the grounds could use one more shrubbery.

[weary]

The good thing about digi's is the delete button. Get yourself a memory card with lots of space.Take about 100 shots (MOL, YMMV) of the same subject. You're bound to get one or two good ones, then delete the rest. Try to keep the camera still when taking the photos. Play around. As a last resort (:D) read your owner's manual.
A good point and shoot will take good pictures within its limitations of speed and resolution.

Good photography is both an art and a special native talent for seeing. Without that special talent you will never compete with the best amateurs or professionals. But there are things you can learn that will help you improve.

I would study most any photographic manual. Most that I've seen deliver pretty much the same message. I've found that it helps to watch a professional work. When I come across a pretty scene I snap a picture and move on a few seconds later. A professional will often spend 10 or 15 minutes or longer seeking the angles, studying the light, and pondering whether returning earlier or later would produce a better photo.

Digital cameras are an excellent learning tool. Snap your photo and view it instantly. If you don't like it try again -- and again, and again.

I could continue, but their are far better photographers than me on White Blaze.

Weary

[Wise Old Owl]

My biggest issue with a lot of outdoor photo's is the god given light also includes too much Ultraviolet. I prefer digitals have a UV filter on them, they don't have it so "many" outdoor pictures appear washed out to me and "lack" color because of it.


Hey I got to back to the regular job now... See ya.

[dixicritter]

Anyone have tips on how to make purdy pictures with a run-of-the-mill point-and-shoot digi cam?

So far I can make two types of nice pictures...

Type 1: Bunch of my guy/girl friends at the bar throwing up gang symbols or pointing and making faces.

Type 2: Those pictures where you hold out the camera with one arm and take a self portrait (destined to be a MySpace profile picture). You know the type; flattering angles and a pouty face.

So, what can I do with Canon Powershot to make some nice 'uns. As of right now it's a crap shoot. Eh oh!

For your Type I photos I'd suggest you take your time, hold the camera as steady as possible, frame the picture and shoot more than one picture. I also tend to try and take pictures that aren't "staged" - I like to get more natural shots. It's more fun that way.

For your Type 2 photos I wouldn't try holding the camera at arms length personally. That's a pain in the butt to do. Get a tripod... it's worth it. You can frame your shot, set your timer, then get in place for the picture and take a good shot pretty much every time.

Those are my suggestions.

[Lyle]

One thing I've been having problems with since I got my Olympus Stylus 600 is out of focus shots - a lot of them. Never had near the problem when I used my old Nikon FM2 manual focus or even a relatively cheap FujiFilm auto focus. The Olympus just does not seem to do as well in that department and it is difficult to tell until you upload to the computer and can see a full size image.

One trick I have learned to help with this is to review my shots on the camera, and use the zoom feature to check for focus. This helps, but does not come close to completely solving the problem. I still get some pretty poorly focused shots when viewed on a big screen. This is my greatest complaint about the Olympus, otherwise, nice camera for backpacking.

[max patch]

***********

:p:cool:

Inappropriate response reported to mods.

[warraghiyagey]

Inappropriate response reported to mods.
Uh oh. . . .

[warraghiyagey]

'Bout time for me to pack it in I guess.
Peace all.

[The Old Fhart]

The advantage of landscape photography is that the subject is still so you can take your time and set the camera just the way you want it as well as take a few shots to get exactly the shot you want. Quite often the photos you see are too busy and have no clear point of interest. It helps to try to keep the photos simple. I like this tripod mounted time exposure I took of the top of a lighthouse with a telephoto lens.
3460(click twice to see full size)

Point-and-shoot cameras can take great photos. The cityscape of Boston below shows the old vs. the new and was taken with a handheld point-and-shoot 6Mp HP digital camera.
3461(click twice to see full size)

[Wise Old Owl]

Tipi Walter - Most digitals have a two step squeeze trigger Test this out with yours. Point the camera at some typewritten stuff or a sign some three feet or more away. Lightly sqeeze the trigger and you will hear a light noise - but no shot taken then squeeze down - Most blurry shots will dissapear because you are engaging the processor to analize the shot before you take the picture.. Also I am suprised nobody mentioned some walking sticks double as a mono pod as apposed to a tripod. No more blurry pictures

[Jim Adams]

learn to crop tight in the camera, ie: don't include anything in the photo that you don't want in the photo. it will get you more detail and the actual photo that you want.

be very aware of the sky, light direction, harsh shadows and distant background. typically back lighting is bad, stormy or very cloudy skys are good and do you really want background detail or not. learn to use your camera f stop (aperture) settings to include or delete background.

try to go shoot an outdoor sporting event with alot of movement and action...it will teach you very rapidly about shutter speed, background, composition and distance.
your quality will noticably improve with every event. this doesn't have to be a pro football, baseball, soccer, etc. event...a simple day sitting around a swimming hole shooting divers and/or a rope swing will sufice. try to shoot the divers in detail, centered, blurred, clear, blurred background, detailed background all during the best action of the moment....you won't believe how good your still photography will be after getting results from action photography.

geek

[bredler]

If you have a photo that you think works okay in composition, but the colors are off, do a google search for picasa and download it. It's a very simple photo organizer/editor that should take care of your basic fixes with no training.

[fiddlehead]

Lots of good advice here.
A few other tips i've learned:
always shoot kids and dogs at eye level,
don't shake
put something in the foreground when you can (tree, bush, branch, flower, etc.) A deep blue sky is good as are clouds mixed with blue sky but a totally cloudy (foggy) sky is not so good.
30 minutes of sweet time, twice a day
don't shake
It's hard to take a bad picture in the Himalayas.
rule of thirds (mentioned a few times but important)
the more mega pixels, the more you can zoom later in photoshop or whatever
don't shake
take a lot of pix and use the delete button (mentioned lots of course)
Picasa is a lot more user friendly than photoshop for the amateur.
Whatever you do, don't shake!

Now, what ever happened to the prizes for that photo contest they had here on whiteblaze about 2 years ago? anybody know?

[Ramble~On]

I didn't read every post to this thread so if I repeat something please forgive.

A point and shoot is just that..point it and shoot. Not to say that excellent photographs can't be made from a point an shoot. Subject, rule of thirds, framing, lighting...backlighting-side front etc.
I did read in here that if your camera has an auto feature to use it...I disagree. I lot can be learned on the web in a search of photography basics. Get an understanding of aperature and shutter speed, ISO, Depth of Field. Most "point and shoot" cameras do not allow for manual control over things such as shutter or aperature..if you are wanting to make creative/artistic photographs...perhaps it is time to move up to a "better" camera..there's a wide variety of DSLR's out there on the cheap and there is always eBay and camera shops for used cameras to get started.

Point and shoots take pictures.
DSLR's and the like make photographs and there is a very big difference between taking a picture and making a photograph.