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Neurosis
02-29-2008, 10:12
Just looking for a little input on what type of filter is best. Ive never used any of them, a pump or a chemical. Ive done most of my hiking in NH and as far as Im concerned if its moving, in NH, its ok to drink. So Im not sure if its worth the wieght and money to buy a pump filter or if chlorine or iodine will work equally as fine. Let me know, thanks.

jersey joe
02-29-2008, 10:16
Neurosis, you will hear a lot of varying viewpoints on this. I can share my experience.
I started my thru hike with a pure filter and ditched it in the smokies. I drank right out of springs and streams the rest of the way. I did carry iodine tablets and used them on the rare occasion when the water source looked questionable. I did not get sick. If I were to thru again, i'd just bring some iodine tablets and again drink out of springs.

rafe
02-29-2008, 10:20
Opinions are all over the map, and the evidence is inconclusive. If anything, the evidence says that water filtering/treatment makes little or no difference with regard to frequency of illness among hikers. Are you feeling lucky?

Footslogger
02-29-2008, 10:23
Well ...with a trail/screen name of "Neurosis" I would guess you might have relatively high level concerns about water purity ???

In the end only YOU can decide which method makes you feel most safe. I've gone through ALL available methods, starting with filters - then PolarPur and finally AquaMira.

Over time I grew increasingly concerned about the true efficacy of mechanical filters - especially when being used many times during each day for weeks/months on end. There is fairly good potential for cross-contamination of the input/output hoses AND ...the filter element (which traps the contaminants) sits inside the filter housing and stays damp throughout it's use -- a perfect environment for the growth of bacteria and other pathogens.

I am personally comfortable with chemical treatment (AquaMira) and use it exclusively nowadays.

'Slogger

Panzer1
02-29-2008, 11:18
I'm using the MSR Miniworks filter. $85 from REI.
http://www.rei.com/product/695265

I've had a lot of filters and I like the way this one works. If your a "filter person" you'll like this one too.

Panzer

Doctari
02-29-2008, 11:22
Take whatever makes you feel best.
I used to carry a First need filter, I filtered EVERYTHING! Didn't get sick, figured it was cause of the filter.
I now carry the Iodine with the nutrelizer, but rarely use it. Still don't get sick.
FWIW: Went on a hike recently with Hammock Eng. HE treated all but one quick drink from a nearby waterfall. I didn't treat ANY of my water. We both got water at the same time from the same sources. HE got sick, I didn't, go figure.

IMHO: You pays your money, you takes your chances. :rolleyes:

Jason of the Woods
02-29-2008, 11:25
Yep. MSR mini. It works just fine. Just make sure that you boil it before use......

hobojoe
02-29-2008, 11:26
The msr sweetwater is an awesome design. They bought the rights to this filter a few years ago. Easier to pump than the Kitahdyn, which has an akward handle, and easier than the msr miniworks. I've had friends who got giardia. I won't take chances anymore.

Tipi Walter
02-29-2008, 11:29
I agree with jersey joe that most drinking water can be had from little springs with no treatment. BUT.

There are many spring sources where heavy camping occurs, and unless you're careful about following the source upstream beyond human impact, getting water at some of these heavily used sites(mostly around shelters)can be a problem.

I always either boil or filter at these sites since some humans will defecate anywhere and everywhere, especially the dayhikers and uninformed squatters. They aren't too careful around shelters where they dump their loads, etc.

I've found the old Pur/now Katadyn Hiker filter to be fast-flowing and good though I've broken the handle off of it twice. On my last trip I used a Katadyn mini-filter(the little blue thing)and it took me about 150 pumps for a liter, much slower than the Hiker.

jersey joe
02-29-2008, 11:45
There is fairly good potential for cross-contamination of the input/output hoses 'Slogger

Slogger, this is exactly why I stopped using my filter. I dropped my entire filter including the output hose into a stream in the smokies. I figured there was no point in continuing to filter at that point so i drank directly out of the stream and continued to do so the rest of the way.

Panzer1
02-29-2008, 12:19
... On my last trip I used a Katadyn mini-filter(the little blue thing)and it took me about 150 pumps for a liter, much slower than the Hiker.

One of the things I look at when buying a filter is how many pumps it takes to fill a liter. Many times when I am filtering I am in a awkward and uncomfortable position and mosquito's are trying to bite me. That's why I am willing to carry a larger filter if it saves me pumps and time. Also I'm of the opinion that the larger filters will pump more water before clogging.


Panzer

Panzer1
02-29-2008, 12:30
There is fairly good potential for cross-contamination of the input/output hoses AND ...

You can buy a filter that does not have an output hose. I will not even look at a filter that has an output hose for that reason. I only consider the type that you screw a liter nalgene bottle into the bottom of the filter. I think this is an important point when choosing a filter.

Panzer

Footslogger
02-29-2008, 12:44
You can buy a filter that does not have an output hose. I will not even look at a filter that has an output hose for that reason. I only consider the type that you screw a liter nalgene bottle into the bottom of the filter. I think this is an important point when choosing a filter.

Panzer
=============================

Right there with ya Panzer. I had the PUR model that screwed directly onto the wide mouthed Nalgene ...however, that only worked for me until I stopped carrying Nalgene's :cool:

'Slogger

rpettit
02-29-2008, 12:54
Opinions are all over the map, and the evidence is inconclusive. If anything, the evidence says that water filtering/treatment makes little or no difference with regard to frequency of illness among hikers. Are you feeling lucky?

Is this evidence documented my a qualified orginization, medical labs, CDC etc.? If so, post a link, I would like to read it. Thanks

Neurosis
02-29-2008, 12:59
Thanks everyone for the input, I'm feeling a little lucky(knock on wood) im going to probably use a chemical product, for like I siad, Ive been drinking of out streams unfiltered for years now, so chemical sounds sufficient enough for me! Thanks again!

Footslogger
02-29-2008, 13:01
I think the real issue in establishing ANY method among distance hikers is control and true corelation. The "laboratory" test results are of intellectual value/relevance but the rules all change when you take it out of the lab and introduce all the other possible sources of pathogenic intestinal conditions.

I've tried ALL the methods and have concluded that for me, chemical treatment (chlorine dioxide) presents the most reproducible positive results.

Just my personal $ .02

'Slogger

Panzer1
02-29-2008, 13:08
Thanks everyone for the input, I'm feeling a little lucky(knock on wood) im going to probably use a chemical product, for like I siad, Ive been drinking of out streams unfiltered for years now, so chemical sounds sufficient enough for me! Thanks again!

Well at least bring some coffee filters. You can use them to get out the big pieces of dirt, if there are any. Coffee filters don't weigh much or take up a lot of space.

Panzer

rafe
02-29-2008, 13:51
Is this evidence documented my a qualified orginization, medical labs, CDC etc.? If so, post a link, I would like to read it. Thanks

Several references are cited in this book (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw/104-8770354-7328748?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=roland+mueser&x=0&y=0), by Roland Mueser. It's a great book, in any case, for anyone interested in long-distance hiking on the AT.

Panzer1
02-29-2008, 16:00
Several references are cited in this book (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw/104-8770354-7328748?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=roland+mueser&x=0&y=0), by Roland Mueser. It's a great book, in any case, for anyone interested in long-distance hiking on the AT.

The so called "evidence" in his book is not a "study". It was an informal "survey" where hikers were asked if they got sick and what the thought it was from. It was not meant to be a "scientific study". In fact there was nothing "scientific" about the survey. The author did not try to portray it as scientific. The survey cannot be used to support any arguments either way.

Panzer
ps I do agree that its a book worth reading.

rafe
02-29-2008, 16:56
The so called "evidence" in his book is not a "study". It was an informal "survey" where hikers were asked if they got sick and what the thought it was from. It was not meant to be a "scientific study". In fact there was nothing "scientific" about the survey. The author did not try to portray it as scientific. The survey cannot be used to support any arguments either way.

Panzer
ps I do agree that its a book worth reading.

The survey was as formal as these things can be. Written questionnaires, about 150 of them.

Mueser cites other studies, opinions of scientists with whom he spoke, etc. I've seen no better study that relates to this specific topic, as it applies to AT thru-hikers.

Specifically, I've seen no "scientific" study that relates rate-of-illness to method of water treatment. Mueser's data is the best I've got.

Peaks
02-29-2008, 17:55
There are several threads on water treatment. Just like all gear, one method, or product does not work best for everyone. Some use chemical, some use filters, some use UV, some don't treat at all. There are trade-offs with each method. So, do your research, and then make a decision.

Tinker
02-29-2008, 18:20
I use a First Need filter. It's heavy and bulky vs. the more popular filters on the market, but it removes viruses as well as bacteria. I began to rethink how I treat cooking water lately. I used to just take it out of a stream or pond and boil it while making dinner. When rehydrating food in the summer, filtering first eliminates the need to bring water to a boil, so you can make hot drinks using less fuel, and rehydrate foods at a lower temperature.
In short, I filter more so I use less fuel.

Panzer1
03-01-2008, 00:17
Mueser cites other studies, opinions of scientists with whom he spoke, etc. I've seen no better study that relates to this specific topic, as it applies to AT thru-hikers.

I will agree with you that I've not seen anything better than this either, but this just isn't really a "study" its a survey.

Panzer

Critterman
03-01-2008, 10:53
I will agree with you that I've not seen anything better than this either, but this just isn't really a "study" its a survey.

Panzer

I reread the book a couple of weeks ago and I have to agree with you. Another thing to consider is that in 1989 there was no Aqua Mira and 43% of the people he surveyed were using iodine which is the least effective chemical disinfectant. Only 14% reported always using a disinfection agent or filter.

rafe
03-01-2008, 11:43
Here's Mueser (P. 98)
"The sample sizes in this study are small, and one is tempted to dismiss the results for this reason. But it should be noted that although the data are from a total of only about 136 people, we are measuring this phenomenon over an extended period of time -- some 15,000 person-days of backpacking during which time the hikers sampled about 1,000 water sources with each person "testing" several hundred sources in the course of a hike. This is no simple compilation of the sickness rate of a few friends hiking over a weekend. The reported cases of sickness may only be 41, but the basic exposure and variety of sources are extensive."
...

"These findings are not the first to hint that how hikers purify their water and how often they do so may or may not be the critical factor in contracting gastrointestinal illness." Mueser then cites a 1993 article in The Journal of Family Practice, based on 180 thru-hikers in 1987-1988, by Byron Crouse and David Josephs.

Table 13-2, P. 95: Methods of Water Purification Used by Hikers

Method : Number of Hikers using Method : Percent of Total

Iodine : 57 : 43
Filtering : 40 : 30
Boiling : 15 : 11
Chlorine : 4 : 3
No Treatment : 18 : 13
Total : 134 : 100

Table 13-3, P. 96: Type of Purification Method vs. Frequency of Gastrointestinal Illness experienced on the trail

Purification Method : Percent of Users who became ill : Giardia only

Iodine : 26 : 6
Filtering : 30 : 9
Boiling : 34 : 3
Chlorine : 75 : 0
No treatment : 27 : 3
Average : 30 : 6

Table 13-5, P. 98: Frequency of Water Purification Versus incidence of Gastrointestinal illness

How Often Purified : Number of Hikers : Number Ill : Percent Ill

Always : 19 : 4 : 21
Usually : 36 : 10 : 28
Sometimes : 56 : 22 : 39
Never : 25 : 5 : 20

Mueser himself finds the results difficult to explain -- though he spends a few pages trying. I won't give it away. Get the book. It's great read.

Wise Old Owl
03-01-2008, 14:45
I agree with jersey joe that most drinking water can be had from little springs with no treatment. BUT.

There are many spring sources where heavy camping occurs, and unless you're careful about following the source upstream beyond human impact, getting water at some of these heavily used sites(mostly around shelters)can be a problem.



I've found the old Pur/now Katadyn Hiker filter to be fast-flowing and good though I've broken the handle off of it twice. On my last trip I used a Katadyn mini-filter(the little blue thing)and it took me about 150 pumps for a liter, much slower than the Hiker.

Samething - Sweetwater broke at the worst possible moment, You know when it breaks the water bursts out the top of the handle. I now use Katadyn Hiker

Panzer1
03-02-2008, 01:22
Although this survey is about treating water and the % of hikers who got sick, we have no way of knowing how the hikers got sick. It may have been from the water or it could have been from dirty hands, dirty cookware, contact with infected persons, expired food, ect.

These other causes could cause the percents to be skewed. For example if the % of illness among hikers who "always" treated water was 21% then those 21% must have become infected not from the water but from some other source. That's what I would guess as long as they were treating their water properly, which we have no real way of knowing.

There is a pattern where the "sometimes" group had a higher illness rate that the "usually" group. The "sometimes" group has almost double the illness rate of the "always" group which is what I would expect. The trend here is that treating water reduces the infection rate.

The "never" group breaks the trend and has a lower illness rate by 1 % which does not seem right after looking at the trend in the previous 3 groups.

From looking at this survey it is far from "clear" what the effect of treating water has on the % of illness. If anything it only causes more confusion because the "never" results contradict the the other 3 groups.

Most surveys have a "margin of error". He does not say what he thinks his "margin of error" is in this survey.

It is possible that some people in the "never" class have build up a resistance to gastrointestinal infections from prior infections.
This could skew the percentages.


Panzer

rpettit
03-02-2008, 09:52
This is an example of the type of study that is valid. http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1349767

I would not make any decision on if I should treat water or with what to treat water based on Mueser's survey. Asking people to self diagnose at the trailhead is completely out of of control. You cannot diagnose Giardia through symptoms. You have to take a stool sample, stain it with a specific chemical and view the sample under a microsope to identify the organism. Mueser's study is invalid, and publishing the erroneous data is irresponsible.

Critterman
03-02-2008, 09:59
............................... That's what I would guess as long as they were treating their water properly, which we have no real way of knowing........................Panzer

I think it would be really interesting to know how many hikers actually do use the proper technique when using their chosen method of disinfection. Do people use the right amount of chemical and wait the required time before using the water after adding a chemical? If not then it would not be surprising that the "never treat" and the "always treat" would have the same rate of problems. Another thing that really makes everything clear as mud in the book is that only 14% always treated their water and he doesn't tell you what methods those 14% used.

CherrypieScout
03-02-2008, 10:02
I used to carry filters - too much weight for the benefit. Now I carry MSR tablets and a couple of coffee filters. THe best suggestion I've ever heard and now follow is to use hand sanitizer before every meal and after every potty break - especially after using the nasty privys. A small bottle will last for 2 weeks.

zoidfu
03-02-2008, 10:35
Whatever you do, don't get a steripen. They eat batteries like there's no tomorrow and the bulbs break easily. I broke two of them and to this day I don't know how I did it. I'm not a go liter, that said, I like the Katadyn hiker pro.

Panzer1
03-02-2008, 11:50
One thing that surprised me was that among hikers that boiled, 3 hikers still got sick. I would have thought that boiling would in theory be the method that would be guaranteed to kill everything.

Panzer

Tipi Walter
03-02-2008, 11:54
Whatever you do, don't get a steripen. They eat batteries like there's no tomorrow and the bulbs break easily. I broke two of them and to this day I don't know how I did it. I'm not a go liter, that said, I like the Katadyn hiker pro.

Thanks for the input. I've been eyeballing the steripen for a while, thinking it would be a viable alternative in zero degrees, but something held me back. In the winter I usually dip and drink, sometimes boil, as a filter can't be used in the frigid temps. Don't think I'd want to rely on the steripen, either.

elray
03-02-2008, 13:05
MSR has just introduced a new lightweight high flow model available beginning this month. I'm going to check it out. I've been very happy with the Hiker Pro up till now but it is a slowpoke. Here's a review of the MSR Hyperflow.
http://www.trailspace.com/gear/msr/hyperflow-microfilter/

Wise Old Owl
03-02-2008, 13:33
Well ...with a trail/screen name of "Neurosis" I would guess you might have relatively high level concerns about water purity ???

In the end only YOU can decide which method makes you feel most safe. I've gone through ALL available methods, starting with filters - then PolarPur and finally AquaMira.

Over time I grew increasingly concerned about the true efficacy of mechanical filters - especially when being used many times during each day for weeks/months on end. There is fairly good potential for cross-contamination of the input/output hoses AND ...the filter element (which traps the contaminants) sits inside the filter housing and stays damp throughout it's use -- a perfect environment for the growth of bacteria and other pathogens.

I am personally comfortable with chemical treatment (AquaMira) and use it exclusively nowadays.

'Slogger

I got forced into using several brands over the years as some of you allready know (i am allergic to iodine) and most of the pipes are both labled and are different sizes to prevent mixups and cross contamination. Some will include a kit to connect direct to some bladders and bottles to really keep it simple. What I quickly learned though, the larger the filter the easier it is to pump. The other learning skill is to add a little more boiling water to the dehydrated food as it tends to bind you up. The only reason for all this trouble is avoid getting explosivly sick in the woods.

And Slogger, the next time I go out I am going to give AquaMira a try.


http://media.rei.com/media/449720.jpg (http://www.rei.com/product/720270)I watched one of my canoing partners stay hydrated with this little light weight KATADYN WATER BOTTLE MICROFILTER He drank right from the river. He stayed hydrated, clipped it to the useless Ice axe loops, and never bothered to ask for the group filter. You can't cook with it, it weights 7-8 oz wet without water and it works. You do not have to hike with the water in it. He would fill it up in a stream and drink then dump. You must read the instructions on this products first use.

Wise Old Owl
03-02-2008, 13:41
One thing that surprised me was that among hikers that boiled, 3 hikers still got sick. I would have thought that boiling would in theory be the method that would be guaranteed to kill everything.

Panzer

Yea but you kind of gave us the answer, they more likely got sick from the outhouse or shanking hands then the water.

Panzer1
03-02-2008, 14:07
Yea but you kind of gave us the answer, they more likely got sick from the outhouse or shanking hands then the water.

Yes, that's what I'm thinking. That's why I think the entire survey is not scientific enough to use. Probably, there never will be a scientific enough study to make everyone happy. That's why in the end people will do whatever they want. Nobody will ever have enough evidence to prove their point or to change someone's else mind.
Still, I think that the survey is interesting.

Panzer

russb
03-02-2008, 15:12
Thanks for the input. I've been eyeballing the steripen for a while, thinking it would be a viable alternative in zero degrees, but something held me back. In the winter I usually dip and drink, sometimes boil, as a filter can't be used in the frigid temps. Don't think I'd want to rely on the steripen, either.


I have the steripen, no problems whatsoever. YMMV

fonsie
03-02-2008, 17:28
http://www.msrgear.com/watertreatment/hyperflow.asp
Check out the new hiper flow...7.4 ounces not bad considering I been useing the msr mini works for a few years now that weighs 15 ounces.

rafe
03-02-2008, 18:55
Although this survey is about treating water and the % of hikers who got sick, we have no way of knowing how the hikers got sick. It may have been from the water or it could have been from dirty hands, dirty cookware, contact with infected persons, expired food, ect.

Pretty much. Mueser speculates that it's something other than water that caused the illnesses. And you know, there are several WBers each with many thousands of miles who claim to never treat their water. Something to ponder, anyway. I carry a filter nowadays, but for the first 15 years or so, I didn't.

tchiker
03-04-2008, 19:08
I've been waiting for that MSR Hyperflow filter to be released too, but I read that it is has a special kind of ceramic filter element that gets damaged if frozen...so it is really just a 3 season unit and would not be used it sub freezing temps. I hike a good bit in the winter time, and it does get into the 20s at times, so I may just go with the Katadyn Hiker Pro....at least that was the plan, but now I read this thread and am confused all over again.

Panzer1
03-08-2008, 19:08
Pretty much. Mueser speculates that it's something other than water that caused the illnesses. And you know, there are several WBers each with many thousands of miles who claim to never treat their water. Something to ponder, anyway. I carry a filter nowadays, but for the first 15 years or so, I didn't.

I suspect that some hikers may have developed immunity to Giardia thru repeated exposure over time.

Panzer

fiddlehead
03-08-2008, 21:07
I suspect that some hikers may have developed immunity to Giardia thru repeated exposure over time.

Panzer

It is my belief that you just get it once. Then you're good to go.
I had it in Nepal in '96 and never got it again (rarely treat water and haven't on the AT since '91)

CrumbSnatcher
03-08-2008, 21:15
I'm using the MSR Miniworks filter. $85 from REI.
http://www.rei.com/product/695265

I've had a lot of filters and I like the way this one works. If your a "filter person" you'll like this one too.

Panzer
you can filter a gallon of water with the katadyn hiker pro faster than the miniworks can filter a quart! the katadyn hiker is by far superior. IMO

CrumbSnatcher
03-08-2008, 21:18
Yep. MSR mini. It works just fine. Just make sure that you boil it before use......
IF YOUR GOING TO BOIL,WHY FILTER AT ALL?

Wags
03-11-2008, 01:30
i saw bear gryllis drink water out of elephant **** one time. and he was on the show the next week and his stomach was still there. i think most of the time people get too paranoid. that being said you couldn't pay me to drink water from the susquehanna downstream of 3 mile island. i don't know of any filter that safely removes uranium

climberdave
03-11-2008, 15:21
I have friend/coworker who contracted Guardia from a stream in VA (VA has lots of cows and such) and it worked him over something fierce with a looong recovery. Before that I was a "drink directly from the stream kinda guy", but now it's a filter with iodine post cartage. I think it's a gamble to not do anything to h2o these days (unless it just gushing from the source and then I'll roll the dice), but filter, chemical, UV .... what have you, should help REDUCE your chances of catching a cootie.
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p> http://www.cdc.gov/Ncidod/dpd/parasites/giardiasis/factsht_giardia.htm#what</o:p>
<o:p></o:p>

Panzer1
03-11-2008, 16:56
you can filter a gallon of water with the katadyn hiker pro faster than the miniworks can filter a quart! the katadyn hiker is by far superior. IMO

I don't like the katadyn hiker because it has an outlet hose which means that in theory the dirty water hose can touch the clean water hose. I will not buy any filter with 2 hoses.

Also, does not screw into the nalgene bottle. At least not the way it is shown on the Internet and in stores. Also I don't like the side-by-side configuration of the katadyn.

As far as speed is concerned the katadyn is rated a 1L per minute and the miniworks ex is about 3/4 L per minute. So, yea its faster but not enough to change my mine.

Panzer

tchiker
03-11-2008, 17:02
I just went ahead and bought the Katadyn Hiker Pro yesterday. I haven't tried it yet, but have used one on camping trips before. I need to have an outlet hose of some point because I will be pumping into a Platypus water bladder. I'm just going to be extra careful not to have any cross-contamination between the hoses and won't even let anyone use the unit without my supervision.

Unless you are pumping water for several people on a big camping trip, I don't think the minor difference in speed is a big factor.

One thing I am already disappointed in with the Hiker Pro is the poor documentation that came with it. There are all kinds of little connectors/adaptors that aren't explained and the diagrams are confusing. And this is from someone who has used one of the units before.

So I'm not in love with the unit from the start, but I have so many friends who use it and never heard too much bad about this model, so it ended up being the one I went with.

Panzer1
03-11-2008, 17:22
I just went ahead and bought the Katadyn Hiker Pro yesterday. I haven't tried it yet, but have used one on camping trips before. I need to have an outlet hose of some point because I will be pumping into a Platypus water bladder. I'm just going to be extra careful not to have any cross-contamination between the hoses and won't even let anyone use the unit without my supervision.


The MSR Waterworks ex screws into the Platypus water bladder..

Panzer

Tipi Walter
03-12-2008, 09:28
I have friend/coworker who contracted Guardia from a stream in VA (VA has lots of cows and such) and it worked him over something fierce with a looong recovery. Before that I was a "drink directly from the stream kinda guy", but now it's a filter with iodine post cartage. I think it's a gamble to not do anything to h2o these days (unless it just gushing from the source and then I'll roll the dice), but filter, chemical, UV .... what have you, should help REDUCE your chances of catching a cootie.
ffice:office" /><O:p></O:p>
<O:p> http://www.cdc.gov/Ncidod/dpd/parasites/giardiasis/factsht_giardia.htm#what</O:p>
<O:p></O:p>

Hey, now this really brings back a bad memory. Back in my backpacking glory days when I was surrounded by that old hippie bubble, I went to Grayson Highlands for a trip and crossed a road where I saw a spring flowing with fresh water. Fresh sewage is more like it. In those days I did not carry a filter and did not treat, so I didn't think much about it. After getting my fill, I looked upstream a ways and saw a group of cows in an open field by the creek. Everybody knows what comes next, that evening I put my tent on an open bald high above the BR Parkway and puked my guts out all night. Once again I intoned every diety I knew but to no avail, etc. Whatever it was I drank was quick acting and by morning I was a dehydrated wreck but I managed to hike the 12 miles out. BTW, the first creek I came to in the woods I DRANK MY FILL.


I don't like the katadyn hiker because it has an outlet hose which means that in theory the dirty water hose can touch the clean water hose. I will not buy any filter with 2 hoses.



Also, does not screw into the nalgene bottle. At least not the way it is shown on the Internet and in stores. Also I don't like the side-by-side configuration of the katadyn.

As far as speed is concerned the katadyn is rated a 1L per minute and the miniworks ex is about 3/4 L per minute. So, yea its faster but not enough to change my mine.

Panzer

I do not see the problem with two outlet hoses. In fact, without the two(like on the Hiker and the mini-filter), getting water from the source to the jug would be much more difficult. And the Hiker has a slide-in plug for a wide-mouthed Nalgene that does not come off easily, so I don't really see the need for a screw-on feature. BTW, the mini-filter I got now has two hoses, an intake and an added short exit hose.

Peaks
03-12-2008, 17:51
Let's see if I get flammed, but I don't understand the possible cross contamination issue with the hoses on the Katadyn Hiker. Seems to me, what might matter is the inside of the hose, not the outside.

CrumbSnatcher
03-12-2008, 20:10
I don't like the katadyn hiker because it has an outlet hose which means that in theory the dirty water hose can touch the clean water hose. I will not buy any filter with 2 hoses.

Also, does not screw into the nalgene bottle. At least not the way it is shown on the Internet and in stores. Also I don't like the side-by-side configuration of the katadyn.

As far as speed is concerned the katadyn is rated a 1L per minute and the miniworks ex is about 3/4 L per minute. So, yea its faster but not enough to change my mine.

Panzeryour more likely to get sick from dirty hands,os sharing gorp,etc...than the second hose your worrying about.

kytrailman
03-13-2008, 07:40
Make you a gravity filter using the sawyer .1 micron inline. I made one with the sawyer between a silnylon (dirty) bag and a 3 liter platy. No pumping, super fast flow rate, and weighs in at aroung 5-6 oz. for everything.

gearfreak
03-13-2008, 09:04
Make you a gravity filter using the sawyer .1 micron inline. I made one with the sawyer between a silnylon (dirty) bag and a 3 liter platy. No pumping, super fast flow rate, and weighs in at aroung 5-6 oz. for everything.

I recently setup a Sawyer between two platy's but I find the flow rate to be nowhere near what I expected (unless I force water through by squeezing the "dirty" bladder). Any thoughts or comments on this from your experience? My Hiker Pro weighs in at 13.8 oz. complete, whereas this setup is 2.5 oz. :banana

Rickosovitch
08-07-2008, 23:58
I got the Sawyer in-line filter from Walmart. It came as part of a bottle system, but had most of what I needed to rig up a gravity flow system. I used my Dromedary water bag and a sippy tube for that bag. Cut off the bite clamp and hooked up the in-line filter. It's at least as fast as a pump filter and weighs just a few ounces. I still bring my Steri-pen along and use it when I just want to grab a quick liter on the trail, but I use my gravity filter for serious amounts and I'm really happy with it.

Father Dragon
11-14-2008, 20:09
The MSR hyperflow is a great little filter, but you have to take care of it and back flush it every day or two. You can't use it in sub freezing temperatures unless you devise some insulation for it and sleep with it at night. I usually just take tabs with me in winter anyway to cut weight.

Water from (true) piped springs is generally safe to drink. The only time that I make sure I filter is when I get water from streams or false pipes. Filters are really nice in draught stricken areas too where water sources are murky and you need to take advantage of each one you find.

Wise Old Owl
11-14-2008, 20:26
Slogger, this is exactly why I stopped using my filter. I dropped my entire filter including the output hose into a stream in the smokies. I figured there was no point in continuing to filter at that point so i drank directly out of the stream and continued to do so the rest of the way.


I might be mistaken but I think we talked about this before, the hose issue was fixed and is far more clear on later models. Now I am not a fan of Sweetwater although I am sure they have improved. Anything is better than nothing.

Gray Blazer
11-14-2008, 20:29
Katahdin hiker works for me. The hoses are awkward. Haven't gotten sick yet.

The one time I listened to the "spring guys" and tried to go lighter by leaving my filter, I spent the whole time wishing I had it.

tchiker
11-14-2008, 20:52
Water from (true) piped springs is generally safe to drink. The only time that I make sure I filter is when I get water from streams or false pipes. Filters are really nice in draught stricken areas too where water sources are murky and you need to take advantage of each one you find.

I got giardia from a piped spring at the peck's shelter in the Smokies...of course I don't kno wif it was a true piped spring or not. I'm not disagreeing with you, but just trying to make sure people are not overly complacent like I was.

I've heard some people hike the entire AT and never filter any of their water and are just fine. However, after being sick for a couple of weeks, I would not want to take that chance.

Like anything else it is a calculated risk, and you calculate and then live with the consequences (if any).

CrumbSnatcher
11-14-2008, 21:10
unless they redesigned one or both of these filters. i have filtered water next to alot of people on the trail. i would always be on my 3rd (32oz.) when they were finishing up thier 1st bottle. pur hiker was alot faster than the MSR filter way back in 03' i love MSR gear just not the water filter. no big deal,maybe i had a head start?

ozarkman
01-14-2009, 22:02
I like the charcoal pump type. Several types listed on www.jbhgear.com (http://www.jbhgear.com) fast shipping. make sure you check the production rate of the pump and buy one that will be efficent enough for the amount of people in your party. Remember, tablets have a shelf life, they may be old when you buy them so I wouldn't recomend tablets. Tablets have their purpose but I would rather filter.

Scrapes
01-14-2009, 23:08
I've seen frogs in springs, they crap where they live, I treat mine. Aqua Mira and bandanna.

Chicken Feathers
02-04-2009, 11:37
IF YOUR GOING TO BOIL,WHY FILTER AT ALL?
Why use a filter have you tried dehydrated water crystals. REI is having a blow out sale on them. One bag makes 1 gallon of fresh water. All you need to do is add 1 teaspoon of clean water.:-?

Chance09
02-06-2009, 22:26
I'm surprised that no one mentions the ULA gravity filter. It uses a katadyn filter if i remember correctly, and there is no work involved. Just fill and wait as gravity does it's job.

Weighs 8 oz too i think.

I'm either taking that or aqua mira for my thru

kytrailman
02-06-2009, 23:35
Chance is right-- I made one very similar to the Amigo and I will never use a pump filter again..

CrumbSnatcher
02-06-2009, 23:42
I'm surprised that no one mentions the ULA gravity filter. It uses a katadyn filter if i remember correctly, and there is no work involved. Just fill and wait as gravity does it's job.

Weighs 8 oz too i think.

I'm either taking that or aqua mira for my thruHOOCH told me to check this out too,really cool. thanks either way its the same filter. i've used the same pur hiker for the longest time. works for me

Stellbell3
02-07-2009, 00:07
I dont like the idea of chemicals in my body for six months.....I will be eating enough crap for that time. Call me whatever you want :D

I have a Katadyn Hiker Pro. bringing it to my thru this year. I have used it lots. Never been sick.

I brought it to Nepal with me to reduce plastic waste. I got sick....not by the water but by the "local wine" made in a reused glass bottle who knows how. After that sickness I will NEVER not do something to my water. I have met people who never have filtered on several AT thrus. I like my piece of mind. And keeping my dinner.

Stell

Jayboflavin04
02-07-2009, 09:03
Well I am gonna treat my water via filter and tabs. I here the filter gets the bacteria and the tabs drop whatever gets the virus. I own a msr sweetwater, the less maintable mini-works (reviews please). And will probably follow up with aquamira tabs. I dont wanna take the chance, I dont wanna spend my vacation time with the slides. I have a very strong stomach. My son(6) and I drank from a spring at the campsite in dolly sods and didnt get sick(water was awesome). I am not a germaphobe. I use next to 0 household cleansers in my home. I use baking soda, washing soda, mild dish detergent and borax to clean everything.....I dont get sick.

I agree with Panzer to the point that people become immune through exposure. That is why every one of use has an immune system. My ex-boss got sick in Thailand because of local food exposure.....stuff they eat everyday and NEVER get sick. The body is an amazing thing, there should be a study on prolonged or repeated exposure to these bacteria and virus. That way we could "naturally" innoculate the entire population. Children who are breast fed get natural antibodies from mothers milk. Even your doctor will tell you the best way to prevent the spread of germs is to
WASH YOUR HANDS!

Jayboflavin04
02-07-2009, 09:16
here is the faq sheet on giardia from the fact sheet.
http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dpd/parasites/giardiasis/factsht_giardia.htm#prevention

If it can live in your swimming pools it can live in or unfiltered treated water.

garlic08
02-07-2009, 11:00
The only filter I've ever seen that's reliable enough to consistently last a thru hike is a gravity filter, though I've never used one. It's really hard to maintain a pump that long.

For anyone feeling the need to use a filter, it's a good idea to have a cheap and lightweight chemical treatment as backup only. It's probably not good to consume the chemicals long term.

CrumbSnatcher
02-07-2009, 11:08
The only filter I've ever seen that's reliable enough to consistently last a thru hike is a gravity filter, though I've never used one. It's really hard to maintain a pump that long.

For anyone feeling the need to use a filter, it's a good idea to have a cheap and lightweight chemical treatment as backup only. It's probably not good to consume the chemicals long term.
i've used the same pur hiker on 4 thruhikes! and a few section hikes. pumps fast ,very reliable, bomb proof.

GeneralLee10
02-07-2009, 11:37
http://www.generalecology.com/category/portable/product/first_need_xl_portable_water_purifier-new

This is a nice Filter and fits more than just one Bottle or you can buy an adapter from them also that will fit more Bottles. I never see anyone on this page ever talk about this one why is that? For only 110 bucks it's a good deal I think plus it will filter around 150 gallons of water. The storage bag can be used for a gravity filter also so if your filter is clogged. So you will not be stuck with a non pumping filter like most of you have complained about.

Funkmeister
02-07-2009, 12:19
Count me in for a vote for the Miox gizmo. With Aquamira as a backup in case something goes awry. I think they're great.

I still have my First Need filter and use it upon rare occasion.

BrianLe
02-07-2009, 13:29
I used the ULA Amigo gravity filter for the first 700 miles of my PCT hike last year, and then I switched to chemicals (Aqua Mira), figuring that most of the sketchiest water sources were now behind me.

Gravity filters can work great, and indeed it's pretty light --- I got mine maybe 3 years ago (?), and it was just about dead on 8.0 ounces as shipped. There's a minor learning curve, and some water sources a gravity filter is easier to use, at other water sources it's harder. The nice places are where the water is falling and you can let that just easily fill the bag, plus you want a nice nearby place to hang the bag at a decent height.

Hint: if you buy or make one of these and have trouble getting it to filter, take the (clean water) outlet hose, put it in your mouth and suck to get it started.
Additional hint: The katadin filter comes with a thin plastic sheet wrapped around the filter element, held in place with a kind of stretchy plastic mesh. Leave that on ... it's not like a piece of removeable filter packing material or something, but a sort of pre-filter. It can be a good idea on occasion to take it off and clean it.

CrumbSnatcher
02-07-2009, 15:41
theres many ways to filter/treat water.most ways are fine,to each his/her own. if a problem arises its probably operator error! i was watching trek yesterday and early on in the movie at the end of day #1 i believe. one of the guys was asked how his day was going and he said it would be better if my filter would work? he had a katahdyn hiker, but the pump was dry and needed primed so he wasn't getting any flow. i just wanted to reach out and slap him, i mean help him.

SunnyWalker
02-07-2009, 19:32
On many trails I have observed the presence not only of humans but cattle, etc. So I filter my water with a Sweetwater filter system. I ahve it down pretty good now and can get it done quickly. I don't carry a LOT of water at a time and so the weight keeps down. I wash my hands also and wash dishes carefully. I have never been sick yet in my life. Have done a lot of hiking and in the past, mtn climbing (as a young adult). The risk of parasites, virus, et al upstream in the water, etc., etc., is something I want to avoid and so do what I can. The technology is there (filter system) and so I use it. The Chemicals are not good enough for me-when I read about them. I make sacrifices in other areas in order to carry the filter system.
Interesting point: I was reading on Wikipedia last night about noro virus. The article stated that alcohol based cleaners (and hand cleaners?) would not kill it. Only chlorine based soaps, etc., would. So I wonder if the little bottle of hand cleaner we all use is really worth it? But how else to clean hands on the go? I sure don't share gorp unless I pour it into someones hands, etc.

garlic08
02-07-2009, 22:12
i've used the same pur hiker on 4 thruhikes! and a few section hikes. pumps fast ,very reliable, bomb proof.

I've been doing an informal poll for years and you're the third person I've heard of getting a pump to last a thru. My hat's off to you. My first and only PUR lastest less than a month. But my friends call me the beta tester. I break bowling balls and crowbars.

Jayboflavin04
02-08-2009, 10:39
Anyone ever trim the handle on a msr sweerwater to make it a t-handle and shave a few ounces, and to improve packability.

Vagrant Squirrel
03-06-2009, 02:39
Has anyone had any experience with the Sawyer Inline filters? http://www.rei.com/product/778041 Apparently you just hook it into your water bladder line and it filters the water in the bladder as you drink it. Sounds like the easiest solution I've seen. I don't think it filters viruses, but it does claim to filter protozoa, bacteria, giardia, cryptosporidium and salmonella.

Rickosovitch
04-02-2009, 13:53
I made a filter system using the Sawyer filter. I hooked it up with some plastic tubing to a water bag and found it gave me two quarts of filtered water faster than a pump at a tiny fraction of the weight.

take-a-knee
04-02-2009, 16:57
I made a filter system using the Sawyer filter. I hooked it up with some plastic tubing to a water bag and found it gave me two quarts of filtered water faster than a pump at a tiny fraction of the weight.

Which Sawyer, the carbon or the hollow fiber one?

Lyle
04-02-2009, 17:01
My vote is Aqua Mira.

retread
03-31-2010, 00:26
I agree with jersey joe; I used to say that I filtered through my bandana.
I carried a PUR filter through the smokies and got tired of it clogging, plus it would freeze solid unless I slept with the damn thing. I sent it home and never looked back. I used Clorox after that and even then not all the time. if I was way up the side of a mountain and I knew there were no people or cattle living higher up and there was water coming straight out of a rock... well, I drank it. when I did use clorox I used 4 drops per liter usually, any amount over 6 drops I could taste.

and since you openly identify yourself as a neurotic, I feel compelled to pass on some wisdom from Warren Doyle. That being that your pack weight is directly proportional to your fears. If you're afraid of being cold, you'll take too many clothes and too heavy a bag; if your afraid of running out of food, you'll take too much; if you're afraid of getting hurt, you'll take too large a first aid kit. got the concept? you might also learn from a story by Tim O'Brien called "The Things They Carried."

Shooting Star
03-31-2010, 00:57
I tried a SteriPen 2 years ago. Loved the light weight
and UV light concept. Found it to be really flaky and unreliable.
It wouldn't light up sometimes. I gave up on it and got a
Katadyne Hiker Pro which works well for me. Removing
the control circuit/timer from the SteriPen and just hooking
up a switch to activate it would probably make it a usable
product.

benji
12-27-2011, 03:51
Katadyn hiker pro does everything the other do plus removes chemical pollutants.. TIP.. while using any filter or purifier, wrap a coffee filter around the input screen with a rubber band..promise it will double the life of filter cartridge

Senor Jalapeno
12-27-2011, 09:51
I started with a steripen adventurer last year, didn't get sick, but I stopped using it after hiawasse, GA. (Then I found out it wasn't working anymore when I wanted to treat water later on). I did not get sick at all from drinking untreated water. Its up to you.

Deadpete
12-27-2011, 10:28
I'd 2nd/3rd/whatever the MSR filter. Having a filter is very nice, and some days you will love it and others you will hate it. I personally didn't filter any spring water unless I was getting it out of a puddle, I drank from streams a few times, and never got sick. I used Aqua Mira mostly when I was worried about the water, and filtered when I could use someone's since I didn't carry one.

Moose2001
12-27-2011, 17:11
I've posted this link before. I think it's the best guide to the options hikers have for water.

http://www.cdc.gov/healthywater/drinking/travel/backcountry_water_treatment.html

mdbamabrad
10-15-2014, 12:46
Sawyer mini

rafe
10-15-2014, 12:51
Katadyn hiker pro does everything the other do plus removes chemical pollutants.. TIP.. while using any filter or purifier, wrap a coffee filter around the input screen with a rubber band..promise it will double the life of filter cartridge

That's a good tip. I like my Katadyn but it is susceptible to clogging when the water's really murky.

RangerZ
10-15-2014, 15:24
Sawyer mini plus Aqua Mira. I've been sick before.

thetribalpavs
10-22-2014, 14:19
Life Straw! $20...simple, light, no chemical taste. Been using it for two years and will never go back to drops or other filtering.

Bucho
12-18-2014, 23:11
Removing
the control circuit/timer from the SteriPen and just hooking
up a switch to activate it would probably make it a usable
product.

It would probably still short out once the water got in there but fewer things to go wrong couldn't hurt.

Connie
12-19-2014, 00:00
Sawyer Squeeze 3.5 oz.
Sawyer Mini 2 oz.

both certified .1 micron absolute

Rather than squeeze, I prefer pour through that is more easily accomplished, for water treatment purposes, with two containers and tubing available at hardware stores. The connectors are sold, separately, by Sawyer. Other connectors are available elsewhere, dependent on the size of tubing. However, the tubing selected should fit the adapters available from Sawyer.

For example, Platypus containers and tubing are compatible.

"can be attached to the included collapsible drinking pouch, inline on a hydration pack, on a standard soda bottle, or simply use the included drinking straw to drink directly from the water source".

perdidochas
12-19-2014, 13:45
Life Straw! $20...simple, light, no chemical taste. Been using it for two years and will never go back to drops or other filtering.

Have you looked at the sawyer Mini? Same street price, same weight, smaller, and filters better.

http://prepforshtf.com/sawyer-mini-water-filter-vs-lifestraw/#.VJRj5P8vnA

Wayne hall 5155
12-19-2014, 15:38
Sawyer mini on a smart water bottle, just dip and drink.