View Full Version : How to pack a backpack without stuffsacks?
Dirtygaiters
03-01-2008, 03:11
I've heard of people doing this before. The basic idea is that you put your sleeping bag in the bottom of your backpack, loosely. Then your food bag goes on top of that and compresses the bag. Here's the problem I'm running into: this seems to cause a down sleeping bag to take up about 2-3 times more space in the pack than if it were in a non-compression stuffsack. Do people do this technique when they don't have a lot of other things to pack only or can it actually work when you're packing a down bag, a down jacket, and other clothes into a backpack (in addition to other gear and food)? I'm curious to know why people who use this packing technique prefer it over stuffsacks.
fiddlehead
03-01-2008, 04:29
Many people in poorer parts of the world just use plastic bags from the grocery store for refrigerator storage, daypacks, clothes bags etc. why not? they're cheap (free), plentiful and help separate your stuff.
Not using anything sounds like chaos to me. One of my pet peeves is to always put things back in their proper place so i can find them in the dark or by feel. looking for my toothbrush by forcing my hands down between candy bars, spare sox, tarp, and into the folds of my sleeping bag when i'm in a storm just doesn't appeal to me.
put your sleeping bag in the bottom of your backpack, loosely. Then your food bag goes on top of that and compresses the bag. Here's the problem I'm running into: this seems to cause a down sleeping bag to take up about 2-3 times more space in the pack
Not when you keep cramming chit on top of it. Crammit.
The bag will compress. My bag will compress. Praise my bag if you must.
Is my bag is of the higher power? :-?
Praise the bag. :jump
Have faith in your bag's ability to adapt. Smack yourself with the stuffsack several times while repeating a Gregorian Chant. Ohmmmmmm... Ohmmmmmm...
I use a stuff sack (not a compression sack) for my sleeping bag. And all my other gear is organized into bags or sacks.
Just think of it this way. You will be packing and unpacking your pack at least once a day. Do you really want to go through the hassle of just "dumping" your stuff out to find what you really need:-?
I always use a drysack for my clothes and sleeping quilt/bag, food goes into it's own stuff sack, tarp / hammock go into it's sack unless wet, then in the outside pocket.
Egads
Four or five stuff sacks works for me. Down bag and kitchen are at the bottom of the pack. The specific contents of each bag tend to vary. One has mostly camp clothes, another has items I might need while hiking, if the weather goes bad. There's a small bag that rides near the top, for critical, compact items, like ibuprofen, benadryl, purell, TP, note pad and pen, headlamp, etc. Food is in one or two bags, separated between "needs cooking" and "can be eaten any time." The former ("needs cooking") lives near the bottom of the pack.
down bag inside of a large leaf bag goes into the pack first. then i use one medium stuff sack which contains my food, kitchen, and bear bagging rope and one biner placed on top of the down bag. after that, i place clothing(sans stuff sack) etc. on top. t.p. and toothbrush go into my first aid kit which is contained in a ziplock and is placed in an outside pocket. lastly my tarp and poncho are placed under the packs flap. only one stuff sack used. the idea is to cram the bag and clothing to take up any empty spots in your pack. i think this method works well, but as a disclaimer i'm only doing 2-3 days with this setup. good luck!
dessertrat
03-01-2008, 12:35
Some people don't like using a stuffsack for the sleeping bag because 1) it compresses it more and shortens the life, especially of a synthetic bag, and 2) if you have a big pack, it is better sometimes to have the pack completely full rather than half full. Leaving a large sleeping bag loose helps accomplish that.
Some people don't like using a stuffsack for the sleeping bag because 1) it compresses it more and shortens the life, especially of a synthetic bag, and 2) if you have a big pack, it is better sometimes to have the pack completely full rather than half full. Leaving a large sleeping bag loose helps accomplish that.
Thing is, a down bag (or really, any bag) has to be kept dry. Seems to me the best way to do that is inside a lined stuff sack. Being compressed, there's that much less chance of the bag absorbing water -- less exposed surface area, and harder for water to penetrate.
A pack cover or liner for the pack is just another level of protection from the rain. When I arrive at camp (or shelter) one of my first jobs is to dig out and spread out the bag. If it's raining and I'm not at a shelter, the very first job will be setting up the tent.
Wise Old Owl
03-01-2008, 13:58
Thing is, a down bag (or really, any bag) has to be kept dry. Seems to me the best way to do that is inside a lined stuff sack. Being compressed, there's that much less chance of the bag absorbing water -- less exposed surface area, and harder for water to penetrate.
A pack cover or liner for the pack is just another level of protection from the rain. When I arrive at camp (or shelter) one of my first jobs is to dig out and spread out the bag. If it's raining and I'm not at a shelter, the very first job will be setting up the tent.
Sorry Terrapin, From experience I swamped a canoe for just 30 seconds or less and yanked the equipment out onto shore. A compression sack won't stop a sleeping bag from acting like a big sponge. Now even when i am far from shore I still push the bag into a compression dry sack. I then dump it all into a garbage bag and I skip the rain covers.
Now when I purchase new equipment I take it home and do a dunk test for waterproof Items.
dessertrat
03-01-2008, 14:00
I line the entire inside of my pack with a large garbage bag. That has been good enough to date.
envirodiver
03-01-2008, 14:02
I use a trash compactor bag as a pack liner to keep everything dry. Then put my down bag loosely inside of a large silnylon stuff sack place it in the bottom of the pack and pack on top of it. By doing this the bag takes up all of the available space in the bottom of the bag, and doesn't have all of those little empty spaces that you get when using compression sacks.
During the winter I will put my colthes into a compression sack to save the space that all of the extra clothing takes up. My food goes into a lightweight sea to summit dry sack, so that I can hang it in a storm without the contents getting wet. I use a few more small stuff sacks to keep small items that would get lost in the bottom of a pack (first aid, toiletries, repair items, extra batteries, etc.
I try to pack my bag about the same every time, but I will alter it depending on weather. I try to pack it with the "first in, last out" mindset. So that when I get to camp I can set up as I unload with out having my stuff all over the ground.
sparky2000
03-01-2008, 15:30
My sleeping bag (quilt) is inside the bivy which is placed in the pack against where my back will be. Bags for clothes, food, and cooking stuff is inside a gallon water container and other items fit about. (13 lbs.)
Sorry Terrapin, From experience I swamped a canoe for just 30 seconds or less and yanked the equipment out onto shore. A compression sack won't stop a sleeping bag from acting like a big sponge.
I wasn't recommending a compression sack, exactly. I use a normal silnylon sack, lined with a kitchen garbage bag. The pack itself will have a silnlyon cover if it's raining out. In any case -- I've never had to deal with a wet down bag. Knock wood. (Anyway, I'm talking about hiking, not canoeing. ;))
Mr. Parkay
03-01-2008, 22:35
I wasn't recommending a compression sack, exactly. I use a normal silnylon sack, lined with a kitchen garbage bag. The pack itself will have a silnlyon cover if it's raining out. In any case -- I've never had to deal with a wet down bag. Knock wood. (Anyway, I'm talking about hiking, not canoeing. ;))
I use the same technique as terrapin, using a silnylon stuff sack, lined with a plastic garbage bag. This method has always served me well.
The idea of having the down bag loose inside the pack sounds like trouble to me.... since there would be a much greater chance of it getting wet and dirty. Although I'm sure it would work fine, as long as extra care is taken to keep the bag safe from harm.
Also, the problem with down bags loosing their loft from being inside a stuff sack isn't as big of a deal as many people make it out to be. And probably not a sufficient reason to stop using stuff sacks all together. As long as the bag is removed from the sack on a regular basis at the end of the day, it will last a long time without too much loss of loft.... several thru-hikes, if it's a good bag and washed occasionally...
Dirtygaiters
03-02-2008, 05:06
I use the same technique as terrapin, using a silnylon stuff sack, lined with a plastic garbage bag. This method has always served me well.
The idea of having the down bag loose inside the pack sounds like trouble to me.... since there would be a much greater chance of it getting wet and dirty. Although I'm sure it would work fine, as long as extra care is taken to keep the bag safe from harm.
Also, the problem with down bags loosing their loft from being inside a stuff sack isn't as big of a deal as many people make it out to be. And probably not a sufficient reason to stop using stuff sacks all together. As long as the bag is removed from the sack on a regular basis at the end of the day, it will last a long time without too much loss of loft.... several thru-hikes, if it's a good bag and washed occasionally...
I think most people who use the no-stuffsacks technique are using some kind of waterproof liner and also a small ditty bag for their miscellaneous gear. I didn't mean to suggest in this thread that there's a way to pack everything into a backpack loosely, just the soft goods. I was confused though, because when you are trying to stuff an 800 fill power 20 degree down bag into a backpack, your food bag needs to weigh at least 15 pounds to actually do any work of "compression." But if your food bag weighs so much, I just couldn't figure out how these people are fitting the rest of their gear into their backpacks.
I'm in total agreement about the overblown aura of danger surrounding compression and sleeping bags. You can damage synthetic sleeping bags with compression, no question about it, particularly those using a hollow filament such as Polarguard. However down is incredibly resiliant and I have yet to even hear about a person whose down sleeping bag did lose loft from too much compression. I have heard of people who believed their sleeping bags lost loft after some 15 years of good use, only to wash the bags and have the loft return to its original height. On thing, though, since we're on an AT website. I've heard a good argument about why not to compress a down bag on a long term hike and it was because if there is any moisture on the outside shell when you pack it up, compression will make it easier for that moisture to work its way into the insulation and saturate the down. Take it or leave it. I have no evidence to prove it either, but it does make some sense.
Didn't Colin Fletcher have a diagram in his book on suggested packing a pack? Although, as I remember, he did use a stuff sack for his sleeping bag and didn't just put it in the bottom of the pack. I think his may have even been strapped outside the main bag.
My down components are just too valuable, to me, to just hap-hazardly dump them into the bottom of my pack and then toss in the rest of the gear. Seems like one is just asking for trouble with that type of set-up.
My down gear is going to be in a silnylon, garbage bag lined stuff sack. I don't want it unnecessarily soiled or dampened. I want it protected.:sun
Dirtygaiters
03-02-2008, 15:28
Once again, nobody is doing things haphazardly necessarily. The idea is one of using food and gear to compress to sleeping bag inside a waterproof liner. Miscellaneous gear isn't loose in the backpack, just soft goods.
Interesting thread. Alot of it has to do with having manageable clothing and gear, without spares, and knowing how to manage them. In theory you should be able to start off with everything wet and muddy anywhere on the trail and just get yourself cleaned up and dried out carry on from there. If you can do this you can get by on less stuff, with less protection, and everything gets easier and easier the less you carry as long as its the right stuff, and it works well together for you.
Feral Bill
03-02-2008, 19:54
I prefer stuff sacks in a single compartment myself but years ago packs were available with all sorts of compartments to sort your gear. Gerry specialized in such packs. Maybe something could be found on Ebay. The loose sleeping bag with other stuff on top does work ok for a weekend or so in dry weather.
NorthCountryWoods
03-04-2008, 10:30
Just think of it this way. You will be packing and unpacking your pack at least once a day. Do you really want to go through the hassle of just "dumping" your stuff out to find what you really need:-?
Right? My wife (the organizer) would go nuts.
BTW, what is the purpose to using no stuff sacks? Weight?
Dirtygaiters
03-04-2008, 19:06
BTW, what is the purpose to using no stuff sacks? Weight?
I think that's the idea...
Not weight for me, it's annoyance with stuffing and unstuffing into little bags . Plus, I find I maximize space by not using a regular non-compression stuff sack and just stuffing gear straight into the pack. Tent first, then sleeping bag, then rainfly(creating a sort of barrier to the bottom), then clothes, then cooking and food(in a plastic shopping bag), with toiletries, snacks and water on top. If your pack has pockets, what do you have to go into your pack during the day for in the first place? If no pockets, just pack the things you need during the day at the top. Simplicity. Your backpack IS a giant stuff sack.
Dirtygaiters
03-04-2008, 20:57
Yahtzee, how big is your backpack and do you use that packing method in the winter? What type/rating sleeping bag are you using? How do you keep the water from your tent from contacting the sleeping bag? Thanks.
Yahtzee, how big is your backpack and do you use that packing method in the winter? What type/rating sleeping bag are you using? How do you keep the water from your tent from contacting the sleeping bag? Thanks.
How big is my back pack? Depends. Have a GoLite Gust that I cut six inches off of but still sits have empty when full. Also, have an Ion which I can successfully pack everything in but my pad which is almost as big as the pack. But do not have a pack I love. The Jam looks too big. After seeing how much I like the Ion, the Fanatic Fringe pack, which has slightly more volume but essentially the same design, might be the way I finally go.
What type bag? Either a Chinook BigKnuckle in the summer or a WM Summerlite for everything else. Don't winter much and if I do, I don't when I know the temps will be below 20.
How do you keep water from your tent from contacting your sleeping bag? If I think moisture will be a problem, I will either stuff the bag inside my fleece or an extra shopping bag, which I usually carry. Plus, I always have a trash bag for the rainy days.
I love stuffing. My hiking partner likes everything in its place. Depends on personality, I guess.
tlbj6142
03-05-2008, 10:28
I don't use a SS for my bag. I line my pack with a trash compactor bag and put my bag in the bottom along with any clothes I don't use during the day (long johns, warm socks, etc.). I roll the top down and put my other stuff on top of it. That's it.
I can compress it way down if needed, otherwise, I let it loft up enough so that my pack always looks a bit full even on the last day on the trail.
Must have been another thread, but I think I posted somewhere that I do what tlbj6142 does. 1) Liner bag goes inside pack. 2) foam pad(s) go inside pack, giving it shape. 3) Another bag goes into bottom of pack. 4) Sleeping bag and down clothing, plus sleep gear go into liner bag with sleeping bag. 5) Liner bag is compressed while making "neck" in bag. 6) "Neck" in liner bag is twisted to keep in air to keep bag from expanding (like a Thermarest pad). 7) Twisted neck is stuffed between the liner bag and the inside of the sleeping pads. 8) Other stuff goes on top.
the idea behind this is that the bas is there and compress under the weight of everything else as it needs to. so the bag compress so everything fits, but no more.
1/4 moon
03-08-2008, 03:25
I use a jam2 with the padding removed. My prefered method of packing is to roll up my blue foam pad and put it into the pack. next i put a trashbag/compactor bag in the said "tube and stuff it with my quilt/clothes. food bag ontop of that. tarp/groundcloth do in front pocket with map/misc granite gear zip thing. 2 gatorade bottles in side pockets. first aid kit consist of a ziplock containing a few bandaids, gauze pad or 2, tweezers and superglue. works great for me but to each their own
1/4 moon
03-08-2008, 03:28
forgot to add raingear which goes ontop of food bag so that i can get it out when needed
Cherokee Bill
03-08-2008, 19:25
:eek: I use Sea to Summit dry bags. Don't have to worry about water and wet stuff:eek:
It's a personal thang;)
1/4 moon
03-09-2008, 02:35
no water worries here, 2k and no probs
Some people don't like using a stuffsack for the sleeping bag because 1) it compresses it more and shortens the life, especially of a synthetic bag, and 2) if you have a big pack, it is better sometimes to have the pack completely full rather than half full. Leaving a large sleeping bag loose helps accomplish that.
This is my method. I do use stuff sacks for organizing other gear, but sleeping bag and "must stay dry" clothes are un-stuffed in a garbage bag at the bottom of the pack.
I've considered what _terrapin_ says about a stuffed bag being less likely to get wet, but I haven't had a problem.
Jim Adams
03-09-2008, 12:53
Not weight for me, it's annoyance with stuffing and unstuffing into little bags . Plus, I find I maximize space by not using a regular non-compression stuff sack and just stuffing gear straight into the pack. Tent first, then sleeping bag, then rainfly(creating a sort of barrier to the bottom), then clothes, then cooking and food(in a plastic shopping bag), with toiletries, snacks and water on top. If your pack has pockets, what do you have to go into your pack during the day for in the first place? If no pockets, just pack the things you need during the day at the top. Simplicity. Your backpack IS a giant stuff sack.
This has always worked for me....never considered using a bunch of stuff sacks inside the pack. I carry my food in a stuff sack but nothing else. If you fill your pack with stuffed stuff sacks then you end up with alot of "dead" space in the pack due to corners and edges.:-?
geek
PS. if you carry just the 12lbs total that most on this site think is the right weight for a thru hike....what is there to organize?:D
I have a 5000 ci internal. Last night, I just shoved my summer bag down into the bottom and added my fleece liner on top. Then I mashed my tent down on top of it. Then my food and extra clothes go in. I have to use a bigger 3 man tent because some boys forget their tent and we have to adapt.
I would have used my stuff sack with my mummy bag but a certain 12 year-old Boy Scout son of mine appropriated it. I hope his tent leaks this weekend.
I use one "Contractor grade" trash bag as a pack liner and everything goes into that except my water. It is a positive barier against moisture never fails.
Hobojoe
I am SO stealing that idea this weekend. 90% chance of rain.
I use Oven bags Liners for my down bag, Bear Cannister and clothes works just as good as a trash bag. Tip:You need to get the green tie for them in the produce section of your grocery store.