Full set of official maps, or what?

[Jail Break]

I've been hearing about 50/50 that you either do or don't need the full set of maps for a thru-hike. What's the verdict from those who have done the whole trail? Maps? No? Something else?

[Appalachian Tater]

It is possible to walk the AT without maps because it is generally well-marked.

However, if you run into problems, such as an injury, a forest fire, or even getting lost, a map could save your life. You also need a compass.

On many other trails, a map is a necessity just for daily hiking.

[KG4FAM]

I used to only carry a guidebook. My knee started giving me trouble on Cube Mountain and I wasnt carrying much food since it was such a short distance from Glencliff to Hanover. I had a map that I found in a hiker box and used it to hitch to Hanover and take a couple of days off instead of being miserable in the woods for a couple of days without food.

[fiddlehead]

I just use the data book. I carry a compass so i know which way i'm supposed to go when i come out of a blue blaze shelter. (my body often wakes before my mind)

Carried them on my 1st thru but didn't bother after that.

[jersey joe]

You don't NEED the maps. I enjoyed having them though because I like studying the terrain that I will be treading.

[Peaks]

It's irresponsible to hike without maps

[Lone Wolf]

I've been hearing about 50/50 that you either do or don't need the full set of maps for a thru-hike. What's the verdict from those who have done the whole trail? Maps? No? Something else?

i've done the whole trail a few times. i always carry maps. irresponsible not to

[hopefulhiker]

I would carry a data book, like the Appalachian Pages. I would also get a set of maps too if I could, I used a set that was several years old but found them to be useful.. Also this year, because of the drought you might find yourself having to go off trail a little bit to find water... But I would come down on the side of carrying maps... But the trail is generally well marked, except in PA where there are extra white blazes in some areas. It can get a little confusing....

[Jail Break]

I realize it's smart to have a map of some sort... I already have the thru-hikers companion and will have that with me.... wasn't looking for a lecture on the irresponsibility of wandering off not knowing where you are.

My question was this:

Is the $200 something plus set of OFFICIAL MAPS the only thing available that is accurate enough? Or is there something else, say that covers the trail in quarters rather than in individual states and sections, or whatever, that is reliable enough, less expensive, that you can use one map for a longer period of time without having to swith maps every 200 miles? Is the Companion enough? Or do I HAVE TO BUY the Official Map set as well?

[rafe]

Or do I HAVE TO BUY the Official Map set as well?

There's no law. It's your call. Are you feeling lucky? :-?

[Jail Break]

Oh. My. God.

I KNOW there's no law, and it's NOT my call, because I haven't done the whole AT before, and I'm asking for advice... not if there's a law. (and yes, I know you didn't mean 'law' literally) I'm asking for opinions because I don't and can't have one because I don't know! Other people do! I don't rely on luck. I rely on smart decisions, research, and planning. If luck happens to present itself, I'll welcome it, but I'm not going to count on it. I'm looking for some helpful advice from those who know more than I do about the topic in question. Thanks.

[Lone Wolf]

I've been hearing about 50/50 that you either do or don't need the full set of maps for a thru-hike. What's the verdict from those who have done the whole trail? Maps? No? Something else?

Maps? Yes. full set.

[rafe]

Oh. My. God.

I KNOW there's no law, and it's NOT my call, because I haven't done the whole AT before, and I'm asking for advice... not if there's a law. (and yes, I know you didn't mean 'law' literally) I'm asking for opinions because I don't and can't have one because I don't know! Other people do! I don't rely on luck. I rely on smart decisions, research, and planning. If luck happens to present itself, I'll welcome it, but I'm not going to count on it. I'm looking for some helpful advice from those who know more than I do about the topic in question. Thanks.

In that case, suck it up and get the maps. ;)

[Alligator]

These Jersey guys:D. There's not much else that is complete, cheaper, or easier to obtain.

Some folks have mentioned using topographic software. I had a version a few years ago but it was difficult to use. I'm not sure what is available lately.

[jersey joe]

Just playing devils advocate here, but why is it irresponsible to not carry maps exactly? The path is well blazed, so getting lost can be excluded. Getting injured could be cited, but in that case one could make the arguement that not having a cell phone or gps is irresponsible?

[max patch]

You need to carry maps.

Consider maps on the AT to be like using a seat belt in your car. Most of the time you don't need a seat belt. But when you NEED a seat belt you're glad you took the time to buckle up.

[Alligator]

Cell phones don't always work anyway, but in the event of an emergency you have switched from being self-sufficient to relying on someone else to fix your problem. A GPS would have to have the local basemaps loaded to provide you with the information to get to where you need to go. Paper maps and compass are far more reliable.

[StarLyte]

Buy the maps...or carry an AT Ridgerunner in your pocket :D

I am PM'ing you on other ideas.

[Lellers]

But I would come down on the side of carrying maps... But the trail is generally well marked, except in PA where there are extra white blazes in some areas. It can get a little confusing....

The confusion in PA comes from the state game land boundary markers, I believe. They are also white, but they aren't as neat and clean as the AT blazes. Game land markers are usually larger and basically look like someone with a can of white paint just slapped a tree with a big ole paintbrush.

I like having maps for any trail that I'm on. While the AT is well blazed, I have lost the trail now and then, especially in snow. I classify maps as safety equipment. I also consider maps my entertainment. Back at home, I like to look at the maps and dream. In my tent at night, I like to study the maps and prepare myself for the next day's hike.

[clured]

I've tustled about this more than once on these forums, and I'm not in the mood to elicit the wrath of the "responsible" again, but I think part of the issue is just how comfortable you feel with yourself and your body. It may be foolish for a middle-aged, weak-kneed, unagile, injury-prone hiker not to carry maps, but if you are young and able-bodied, then it is a rather severe overstatement to say that hiking on the AT without maps is some massive lapse of judgement. It's just not. It never occurred to me to carry maps last summer; I got my copy of the data book in the mail, and I was like "oh, no need for maps then!" And I was right. Never once did I feel the slightest need for maps, even in f-ed up, really painful situations.

[HikerRanky]

Just playing devils advocate here, but why is it irresponsible to not carry maps exactly? The path is well blazed, so getting lost can be excluded. Getting injured could be cited, but in that case one could make the arguement that not having a cell phone or gps is irresponsible?

While the data books have water locations printed in them, you may not be able to obtain water from them due to some external forces, such as a drought... Having a map and compass will allow you to find an alternative location very easily.

GPS batteries will die at some point, and cell phones don't always work when you need them to...

Besides, I'll hazard a guess that a map and compass of the section you are currently on is the same weight or less than the GPS receiver you take along... Wouldn't know, because I carry maps and compass rather than a GPS...

Randy

[Alligator]

Maps are pretty much universally included on the 10 essentials list. If you are young, able-bodied, and feeble-minded you won't need them.

[Two Speed]

Maps are pretty much universally included on the 10 essentials list. If you are young, able-bodied, and feeble-minded you won't need them.Technically I'm not sure that young and able-bodied are the qualifying factors. Feeble-minded looks like it would fill the bill nicely.

[clured]

Whatever, guys. I guess if you say something enough times it becomes true. This has become a sort of symbolic issue that people use to somehow prove that they are really wise and experienced and seasoned, unlike those foolish young-ins. It's just not as big of an issue as people make it out to be. Hiking is not a high-stakes activity; the risk factor is really very low, especially on the AT.

Either way, I can't take seriously anyone that calls not carrying maps "irresponsible" until they also condemn solo hiking in general, which is far, far, far more dangerous than not carrying maps. But I doubt that many people here will do that.

[jersey joe]

The only emergency mentioned above where I can see needing maps for is trying to find a water source. If you have a TRUE emergency, like you break a leg, or get your hand caught under a rock...the maps won't help you. In fact, it could be argued that hiking alone is more irresponsible than not carrying maps. I can think of way more situations where the buddy system would save your life over maps.

[partinj]

Yes to Maps and a compass and know how to use them. As we have read on these post in the past few months persons have got lost and have to be found by search partys. if they had maps and a compass and knew how to use them they could have found their own way out.

[clured]

Yes to Maps and a compass and know how to use them. As we have read on these post in the past few months persons have got lost and have to be found by search partys. if they had maps and a compass and knew how to use them they could have found their own way out.

Um, no. They were freezing to death, not lost.

[Alligator]

Whatever, guys. I guess if you say something enough times it becomes true. This has become a sort of symbolic issue that people use to somehow prove that they are really wise and experienced and seasoned, unlike those foolish young-ins. It's just not as big of an issue as people make it out to be. Hiking is not a high-stakes activity; the risk factor is really very low, especially on the AT.

Either way, I can't take seriously anyone that calls not carrying maps "irresponsible" until they also condemn solo hiking in general, which is far, far, far more dangerous than not carrying maps. But I doubt that many people here will do that.Physical condition and age did not enter the discussion until you brought it up:rolleyes:.

Maps have been included in the ten essentials from their inception in the 1930's. That seems like a sufficient amount of time to determine the wisdom of that advice. Still included after all these years:banana.

[HikerRanky]

The only emergency mentioned above where I can see needing maps for is trying to find a water source. If you have a TRUE emergency, like you break a leg, or get your hand caught under a rock...the maps won't help you. In fact, it could be argued that hiking alone is more irresponsible than not carrying maps. I can think of way more situations where the buddy system would save your life over maps.

How would having a GPS receiver help you in this particular case? True, it would give you a very accurate location, but how do you notify the SAR people with nothing but a GPS receiver?

As far as the buddy system argument, that is an entirely different thread subject.... The OP was whether or not to have maps, not a buddy....

[clured]

Physical condition and age did not enter the discussion until you brought it up:rolleyes:.

Maps have been included in the ten essentials from their inception in the 1930's. That seems like a sufficient amount of time to determine the wisdom of that advice. Still included after all these years:banana.

Any input about the solo-hiking question? If solo hiking isn't irresponsible, doesn't it make the massive risk-aversion behind the you-must-carry-maps a little incoherent? Like, if you're willing to go out alone - which is the real source of danger - why get so bunched up over people that don't carry maps? You've already shown that (by the standards of most people, not me..) that you are willing to swallow a fairly substantial amount of bodily risk, so what's the logic in getting so angry at people who are comfortable with a tiny bit more?

[Critterman]

.............. It may be foolish for a middle-aged, weak-kneed, unagile, injury-prone hiker not to carry maps, but if you are young and able-bodied, then it is a rather severe overstatement to say that hiking on the AT without maps is some massive lapse of judgement. ...............

Some might say that the young and able bodied are the most likely to suffer a lapse of judgment. :D ( just joking from a middle aged weak kneed hiker )

[HikerRanky]

Any input about the solo-hiking question? If solo hiking isn't irresponsible, doesn't it make the massive risk-aversion behind the you-must-carry-maps a little incoherent? Like, if you're willing to go out alone - which is the real source of danger - why get so bunched up over people that don't carry maps? You've already shown that (by the standards of most people, not me..) that you are willing to swallow a fairly substantial amount of bodily risk, so what's the logic in getting so angry at people who are comfortable with a tiny bit more?

With all due respect, the OP wanted to know about the map/no map question, not about the buddy/no buddy question.. Both are very different topics....

Randy

[buff_jeff]

Instead of making a new topic, I was just wondering if you guys think it's worth bringing the guidebooks along with the maps. Thanks in advance.

[jersey joe]

I don't think the guidebooks are worth their weight.
get the companion or another comprehensive guide instead.

[max patch]

Instead of making a new topic, I was just wondering if you guys think it's worth bringing the guidebooks along with the maps. Thanks in advance.

You don't need the guidebooks to hike the trail.

However, I carried them because I liked to know about the area I was hiking in. The start of every section has what I call a mini history lesson of the area -- what was the cheese factory and how did blood mountain get its name -- and they tell you what you are seeing when you stop by a scenic overlook or a mountain top.

I use my guidebooks today as they give great directions on how to access the trail by road.

I would estimate that maybe 1 out of 100 thru hikers agree with me. And thats ok since you don't need these to hike the trail.

Tip - assuming you are going to buy the complete map set anyway; wait until the annual ATC sale from roughly Thanksgiving to Christmas and you get the guidebooks and maps for what the maps alone usually cost.

[jersey joe]

Is the Companion enough? Or do I HAVE TO BUY the Official Map set as well?
The "irresponsible" topic aside, You can definitely hike the whole trail with just the companion. when I hiked the trail, there were tens if not hundreds of people out there with just the one of the companions and not the maps.

[leeki pole]

Any input about the solo-hiking question? If solo hiking isn't irresponsible, doesn't it make the massive risk-aversion behind the you-must-carry-maps a little incoherent? Like, if you're willing to go out alone - which is the real source of danger - why get so bunched up over people that don't carry maps? You've already shown that (by the standards of most people, not me..) that you are willing to swallow a fairly substantial amount of bodily risk, so what's the logic in getting so angry at people who are comfortable with a tiny bit more?
Hiking alone is not inherently dangerous.
Not having map and compass is foolhardy.

[fiddlehead]

Didn't realize i was such an irresponsible hiker. I've hiked over 1,500 miles alone and often prefer it. What is the problem?

Maps on the AT? They would be fun for blueblazing if you have the time.

Also 10 essentials are a bit of a joke as 10 different people have 10 different essentials. (and on the AT, a map would not make many of those lists IMO)
I get a kick out of it when i see 10 essential lists that include sunglasses, bug repellent, sunscreen BUT no sleeping bag, food, tarp or raincoat.

[Peaks]

Just playing devils advocate here, but why is it irresponsible to not carry maps exactly? The path is well blazed, so getting lost can be excluded. Getting injured could be cited, but in that case one could make the arguement that not having a cell phone or gps is irresponsible?


In general, the trail is well blazed. However, there are places where it is not. And, a map sure helps tell us which way to turn.

I've met thru-hikers off the AT who assumed that they were on the trail. If they had carried maps, then they would have known that they were not where they thought they were.

[Jail Break]

So in other words... the official opinion is still 50/50, with numerous opinionated tangents.

I'll get the maps on the side of caution, if nothing else.

As far as hiking solo, I'd gladly hike with a buddy if I could find anyone willing/able to hike the AT with me. But I'm not gonna let the lack of a buddy stop me. Maybe I'll hook up with someone on the trail, maybe not.

[clured]

In general, the trail is well blazed. However, there are places where it is not. And, a map sure helps tell us which way to turn.

I've met thru-hikers off the AT who assumed that they were on the trail. If they had carried maps, then they would have known that they were not where they thought they were.

As of summer 2007 there was no place on the AT that was not extremely well blazed. Most places were over-blazed to the point of distraction.

How would maps have helped out hikers that didn't know they were off the trail? If they didn't know, they would not have consulted the map anyway.

I agree with Fiddlehead; hiking alone is not irresponsible - it is a choice that many people (like myself) make, and we're grown up enough to deal with whatever eventualities might arise. Maps are the same; every year dozens and dozens of people do successful solo, mapless thru-hikes. It is a viable option, and not irresponsible.

[Lone Wolf]

it's foolish and irresponsible

[Two Speed]

So in other words... the official opinion is still 50/50, with numerous opinionated tangents.

I'll get the maps on the side of caution, if nothing else.

As far as hiking solo, I'd gladly hike with a buddy if I could find anyone willing/able to hike the AT with me. But I'm not gonna let the lack of a buddy stop me. Maybe I'll hook up with someone on the trail, maybe not.Jail Break, if you check some other threads on this subject I'm sure you'll find that the vast majority of experienced hikers recommend maps. There is a small and vocal minority that think they know more about the subject. Based on the cumulative number of miles I'm going with the folks that recommend maps. 'Nuff said.

[BirchBark]

If one should become lost or need to get off the trail ASAP there are many resources one might possibly utilize- but I don't think one resource (i.e. maps) should be relied upon to the exclusion of all others. In certain circumstances the map alone might not have the information you really need at the time. When the phone doesn't work, the guidebook is useless and the map doesn't show what you're looking for, what do you have left?

Your common sense, that's what. That, and your humanity- belief and trust in your fellow man is important. Without each other, we are nothing.

Guidebooks, maps, compasses, etc. are important as well, but I will take my own common sense and the company of a friend any day of the week. Having said that, I carry the ALDHA companion and a compass.

And btw, try not to get lost without the maps.

[Alligator]

Any input about the solo-hiking question? If solo hiking isn't irresponsible, doesn't it make the massive risk-aversion behind the you-must-carry-maps a little incoherent? Like, if you're willing to go out alone - which is the real source of danger - why get so bunched up over people that don't carry maps? You've already shown that (by the standards of most people, not me..) that you are willing to swallow a fairly substantial amount of bodily risk, so what's the logic in getting so angry at people who are comfortable with a tiny bit more?The OP was about maps. Just because you introduce some other topic you disagree with doesn't mean that now argument against maps has merit. Whose angry:rolleyes:?


Didn't realize i was such an irresponsible hiker. I've hiked over 1,500 miles alone and often prefer it. What is the problem?

Maps on the AT? They would be fun for blueblazing if you have the time.

Also 10 essentials are a bit of a joke as 10 different people have 10 different essentials. (and on the AT, a map would not make many of those lists IMO)
I get a kick out of it when i see 10 essential lists that include sunglasses, bug repellent, sunscreen BUT no sleeping bag, food, tarp or raincoat.Classic ten essentials include extra clothes, food, and lighter. You are always welcome to augment that;).

[jersey joe]

Jail Break, if you check some other threads on this subject I'm sure you'll find that the vast majority of experienced hikers recommend maps. There is a small and vocal minority that think they know more about the subject. Based on the cumulative number of miles I'm going with the folks that recommend maps. 'Nuff said.

I would also recommend maps, but I'm not going to go as far as judging someone by saying they are foolish for not carrying maps. The trail is too well marked to say this.

[clured]

it's foolish and irresponsible

Come on, LW, I understand your view, but all I want is a concession that "foolish" and "irresponsible" are overstatements. More appropriate might be: "maybe not the best idea" or "probably wise to bring maps."

"Foolish and irresponsible" is going on a hike in January in the Whites without the gear to spend the night in the mountains if bad weather hits. As in, something that could very well kill you. It is not going on a stroll in the woods on a hot sunny summer day on a wilderness highway with fresh blazes every hundred feet and choosing not to carry maps. It's the hyperbole that ticks me off. You can think its not the best choice, but don't condescend to call me "foolish" over something so really trivial.

[Matteroo]

I'd put one in the bucket (haha) for taking maps. You could certainly do it without and you wouldn't be a bad person for it exactly, but then, watch, there is a good chance you'll be taking a gander at your fellow hiker's maps when you can, or doing digital pictures (consider this) of their maps that you can 'zoom in' on your camera (again not available if your batteries are dead).

We had a lot of folks look at our maps/take a picture of the elevation profile, etc, and we didn't mind sharing-it actually didn't cross my mind that "these people should have their own maps!" Mostly they were/are our friends.

I for one love maps in a pervasive general sense, so having the maps along the trail was fantastic. I would say they are a safety item. If your money is extremely short, I'd get boots that work or a warm sleeping bag over maps, but they are good to have-we used them many times each day (to get additional information-and much more occasionally-where a side trail went/roads went/what we were seeing across a valley)

[Strategic]

I realize it's smart to have a map of some sort... I already have the thru-hikers companion and will have that with me.... wasn't looking for a lecture on the irresponsibility of wandering off not knowing where you are.

My question was this:

Is the $200 something plus set of OFFICIAL MAPS the only thing available that is accurate enough? Or is there something else, say that covers the trail in quarters rather than in individual states and sections, or whatever, that is reliable enough, less expensive, that you can use one map for a longer period of time without having to swith maps every 200 miles? Is the Companion enough? Or do I HAVE TO BUY the Official Map set as well?

Two things:

First, there really isn't any other set of maps that's going to get you sufficient detail to be useful, so the official ones are the way to go. They're generally based on USGS 7.5 quad maps, but those are much bulkier and much harder to use unless you're pretty good at map reading and you'd need even more maps to get coverage. Mapping software isn't really any better than the official maps either, because you'd end up with essentially the same maps (unless you mess with the scale, but that would make them less useful) and by the time you've printed them out on properly water-resistant paper you'll probably have spent as much as you would for the real thing. Sorry to be the bearer of this ill news, but the $200 will be well spent now that all the official maps are of good quality.

Second, I'll just make a little observation from an old section hiker for all you thrus out there on the subject of carrying maps; you can't always rely on a section hiker to be there with one. Seriously, every time I section and meet anybody thru-hiking, half the time they end up wanting to borrow my map to find out something that they need or want to know but the guidebook they have isn't telling them (spring locations, land features, alternate routes, town accesses, etc.) It makes me feel good to help out, of course, but I also wonder what on earth they were thinking not to have one in the first place. So save yourself embarrassment at the least and carry a map.:D

[rafe]

Come on, LW, I understand your view, but all I want is a concession that "foolish" and "irresponsible" are overstatements. More appropriate might be: "maybe not the best idea" or "probably wise to bring maps."

"Foolish and irresponsible" is going on a hike in January in the Whites without the gear to spend the night in the mountains if bad weather hits. As in, something that could very well kill you. It is not going on a stroll in the woods on a hot sunny summer day on a wilderness highway with fresh blazes every hundred feet and choosing not to carry maps. It's the hyperbole that ticks me off. You can think its not the best choice, but don't condescend to call me "foolish" over something so really trivial.

Running out of water at an inopportune moment could be injurious to your health. A change of weather could reduce visibility to where only a map and compass might direct you. I grant you, these are rare occurrences. But that's why we carry "emergency" gear, hoping we won't have to use it. The path of the AT isn't always well-blazed or obvious.

[fiddlehead]

We used to carry the pages torn out of the DeLorme Gazetteer to supplement the PCT guidebook maps because they were only narrow "strip" maps. The narrow "strip" maps don't help you plan alternative routes or the easiest way out in case of problems. Don't know how wide the "official" maps go (for the AT) as i haven't used them since '77 but perhaps the Delorme Gazetteer maps could tell you what you need to know.

[mudhead]

perhaps the Delorme Gazetteer maps could tell you what you need to know.

My Maine packet looks like it was "lifted" from my Gazetteer. Or vice versa.

[Panzer1]

1) I like maps because of the terrain profile. I use this each night to set my goals for the next day. I allows me to judge the difficulty of the terrain and to determine how much distance I am capable of hiking in advance. I also use the terrain profile to determine where I am. As i hike I count the hills that I am going up and down and find these hills on the map to fix my location.

2) I always like to know precisely where I am in relation to the roads and towns in the area. Maps enable me to know what is nearby even if I can't see it by eye. I like to read and maps are the only thing I read on the trail.

3) maps may be useful in an emergency. I have never had an emergency, but if there was one I would have a map and compass. Maybe the "emergency" is the most important reason to carry a may but I list it third because I never had an emergency.

Panzer

[Jack Tarlin]

Clured:

To answer a question from your post#41, above:

Even if a hiker has gone off the Trail and has become lost, he knows approximately where he is. What this means is that sooner or later, if he doesn't re-find the Trail by himself quickly (let's pretend he's heading in 180 degrees the wrong way) sooner or later he's going to come to some sort of recognizable feature (road, stream, etc.) that may well be on his map and may well help him figure out where he is in relation to the Trail. If it's a road or other Trail or stream he's stumbled on, his map will tell him where it goes, and where it ends up, i.e., he'll know if it makes sense to follow it. If he finds a feature he can recognize, this may also help tell him where he is in relation to the Trail, in case he wants to bushwhack back to it. In short, having a map can make a very big difference to the hiker, whether he's still on the A.T. and also, if he's strayed from it. A hiker with no map is absolutely blind to the area around him and its features. A hiker with a map has options.

Oh, and you're also mistaken when you say that the problem with some of the lost hikers we've read about in recent weeks was not that they were lost, but that they were freezing to death. In nearly every case that I've read about in New England recently, these hikers were freezing and cold because they were lost, and most of them were lost because they had no maps.

This isn't rocket science. The prudent hiker carries a map, always.

[Panzer1]

[quote=clured;557670.... Maps are the same; every year dozens and dozens of people do successful solo, mapless thru-hikes... [/quote]

These may be people who are hiking on a low budget. Like the guy who wanted to hike for $1500. They have to cut corners somewhere. So they do without maps. They may look at other hikers maps for free.

I would think that most hikers who have the money would carry maps and a compass.

Panzer

[Mags]

True story of my map use:

The trail was flooded in Mass. I am talking about water coming over the top of the bridge, the "trail" was under chest high water when I finally said "The hell with it" and looked at my map. (People who did the official and flooded trail later reported they SWAM the fricken' trail in water over their head.)

AH! A road is a short walk away, is dry and connects back to the AT.

Did quick road walk and bypassed the AT swim.

Then again, I am not one to blindly follow blazes. I figure if I wanted to follow a marked course blindly, I'd do more trail races. Lots of fun..but I am an outdoors person first and like to be more self sufficient overall. ;)

I am also a wimp as well. Perhaps a bit decrepit, too.


YMMV.

There really is no definite answer in the sense that it has been debated ad nauseum. If you want to follow the white blazes only..yeah, you probably can get away without a map (but there is always a "just in case" scenario. Does not have to be dramatic...look at my scenario). OTOH, some of us like to make our own route and enjoy going off the beaten path a bit and/or want to find alternate routes when the official trail is under 5'6" plus of water. :D

[tlbj6142]

You could just purchase the maps for the first state or 2 and decide on the trail if you think you really need/want them. If so, order the complete set.

I take the maps on the AT for a couple of reasons (in no particular order)...

I'm a map geek. They are fun just to look at even if it is not the section you are currently on.
Reading material on breaks...
"That must be Mt. Rocky Top over there..."
Water sources. I'm amazed at how often water sources are shown on maps that are not shown in guild books. Or for that mater, the map shows a creek crossing, but no water source. You now know you have at least some chance of getting water at that point.
Bailout options for you or others. Weather? Injured? Bear/coon stole your food? Some trail idiot stole your pack?

[Panzer1]

Since only about 20% or so of hopeful hikers make it all the way to maine I do not recommend buying all maps before you begin, instead just buy the maps for the state you are in and the next state, if you think you are going to make it to the next state. Have the maps mailed to you at your next zero.

Panzer

[mosquito ninja]

Gonna bend the topic real fast cause I don't want to start a whole new thread.

Is it possible to buy the official maps along the trail? Or just best to buy the set and use mail drops?

Thanks.

[Alligator]

Since only about 20% or so of hopeful hikers make it all the way to maine I do not recommend buying all maps before you begin, instead just buy the maps for the state you are in and the next state, if you think you are going to make it to the next state. Have the maps mailed to you at your next zero.

PanzerI'm not sure what the bundle discount is, but on the other hand, one could sell the set to another hiker if it went unused. Just another option.

[fiddlehead]

A good traveler has no fixed plan, and is not intent on arriving.
~ The Way of Life - Lao-Tzu ~

[rafe]

Is it possible to buy the official maps along the trail?

Not reliably.


Or just best to buy the set and use mail drops?Yes.

[Darryl G]

I feel that maps and guide books are optional on the AT...all that is really needed while hiking is the data book. While planning the trip it may be a different case, but on the trail white blazes will guide you. I've seen so many hikers spending so much time studying guide books and maps and elevation profiles at the shelters...dreading the day ahead. I don't worry about that stuff other than where's the next water and next camp. The trail goes where it goes and there's nothing you can do about it. Sometimes the less you know, the better. One step at a time, one blaze at a time......

[Jail Break]

I feel that maps and guide books are optional on the AT...all that is really needed while hiking is the data book. While planning the trip it may be a different case, but on the trail white blazes will guide you. I've seen so many hikers spending so much time studying guide books and maps and elevation profiles at the shelters...dreading the day ahead. I don't worry about that stuff other than where's the next water and next camp. The trail goes where it goes and there's nothing you can do about it. Sometimes the less you know, the better. One step at a time, one blaze at a time......

I was thinking the same thing... I might not WANT to know that I have a 3000' climb ahead of me that day... I don't know...

[Jack Tarlin]

Hmmmmm. Let's pretend you're nursing a bum leg. You've already done 12 miles, but feel capable of doing a few more. Well I don't know about you, but if there was a 3,000 foot climb waiting just ahead of me to finish the day with, I might just decide to knock off early and do that climb the next morning when I'm fresh. In short, I WANT to know what's up ahead of me so I can plan my day better. A careful study of the maps and elevation profiles will give you a pretty good idea of what lies ahead: It'll tell you where the big climbs are; it'll tell you where the easy stretches are. The maps will tell you where it'd be a good idea to go for a big-mileage day; likewise, they'll tell you where it'd be foolish to. Having the maps gives one all sorts of options that don't exist when you travel without them.

[tlbj6142]

I agree. I typically like to end with a downhill since they hurt more.

[fiddlehead]

I remember camping with a guy at the shelter just before Roan mtn.
He kept pulling those maps out and just staring at the profile of the next days climb.
In the morning, he got up and went the other way and hitched a ride home.
He got so shook up by looking at those ridiculous, exaggerated profile maps. He quit!

[Mags]

A good traveler has no fixed plan, and is not intent on arriving.
~ The Way of Life - Lao-Tzu ~

...and with a map you can make new plans on the fly and not be stuck on a fixed plan. ;)

[Darryl G]

Having the maps gives one all sorts of options that don't exist when you travel without them.

ROFL...wow, you mean they have magical qualities?

[HikerRanky]

ROFL...wow, you mean they have magical qualities?

Yeah, they have the magical quality of helping people such as yourself find alternative water sources....

[fiddlehead]

...and with a map you can make new plans on the fly and not be stuck on a fixed plan. ;)

"Not all who wander are lost!"

[Darryl G]

Hey, I'm not saying don't bring maps, just that I consider them optional and didn't have a set when I hiked the AT. I'm a pretty strong hiker and just sorta go with the flow...don't really worry about where I am or where I'm going that much.

Guess i should say that in the White Mountains of NH you'd best have a set.

Lets face it, the AT is a popular well blazed trail with lots of other hikers and road crossings, log books in the shelters and all that. I don't know any hikers who are gonna deny you a glance at their map at the shelter after they've studied it for the ususal 3 hours and gotten themselves totally depressed about the day to come :)

And really, it's not likely you're gonna get hopelessly lost and die out there. I did end up on the old AT at one point in Dartmoth College territory, but no biggie. I was able to find my way on the old trail and the blueberries there were prime as nobody else was picking them :)

[Alligator]

Here's a magic quality about maps: they change the one dimensional view to a three dimensional one:).

I haven't run across many doctors offices nor hospitals on the trail. Maps provide the information for a quicker, safer exit from the trail in the event of an emergency. It could be a bad gash, an animal bite, a sprained ankle, broken arm, kidney stones, GI distress, etc. All moderate emergencies that may need medical attention ASAP but perhaps shouldn't require a SAR call. The "I am young and fit (I am invincible argument)" does not preclude bad things from happening to you. Decades of convential wisdom continue to suggest having a map is very important for hiking.

[leeki pole]

Here's a magic quality about maps: they change the one dimensional view to a three dimensional one:).

I haven't run across many doctors offices nor hospitals on the trail. Maps provide the information for a quicker, safer exit from the trail in the event of an emergency. It could be a bad gash, an animal bite, a sprained ankle, broken arm, kidney stones, GI distress, etc. All moderate emergencies that may need medical attention ASAP but perhaps shouldn't require a SAR call. The "I am young and fit (I am invincible argument)" does not preclude bad things from happening to you. Decades of convential wisdom continue to suggest having a map is very important for hiking.
Very wise statements. Thanks, Gator. Contingency management.

[Mags]

"Not all who wander are lost!"


...and probably because those who wander AND are not lost usually know how to use a map and compass? :P

[Two Speed]

Decades of convential wisdom continue to suggest having a map is very important for hikingand that Darwin's Law has a greater tendency to operate on those who refuse to think. I'm starting to suspect that the "I ain't gonna carry no stinkin' map" crowd is volunteering to get some gunk out of the gene pool and that we should consider getting out of their way.

[Mags]

How come none of the anti-map folks commented on my story? I actually found the map useful for a flooded section of the trail.

I am not going to say "Don't take a map and you will die!!! MOO HAA HAA HAA!"

But I will say, damn, the map made it much easier to WALK a trail (or rather a brief section of road) rather than SWIM the trail.

Then there is the time (same year) I used the maps to walk around massive blow downs due to a storm that year.

Nothing dire..but useful.

Hey..I have a counter offer..

WHY take the guidebook? Why not take just the maps? Maps are more accurate than a guidebook.

If you know where the town is..do you really need to know where the AYCE buffet is?

(JUst playing devil's advocate)

[Two Speed]

I am not going to say "Don't take a map and you will die!!! MOO HAA HAA HAA!"Don't think I said that, but I do kinda like the MOO HAA HAA HAA!!! part. :-?

[Mags]

Don't think I said that, but I do kinda like the MOO HAA HAA HAA!!! part. :-?


You can NEVER go wrong with an evil laugh.

I am too jolly to do a truly wicked and satisfying evil laugh though.

Perhaps these will help?

http://www.findsounds.com/ISAPI/search.dll?keywords=evil+laugh

[Darryl G]

Sounds like a bunch of city folks venturing into the big bad wildy to me, lol. Spooky out there, ain't it :).............And don't forget the flare gun and homing device and your last will and testament and better bring a defibrilator in case you have a heart attack. Hehehe.

[Alligator]

Sounds like a bunch of city folks venturing into the big bad wildy to me, lol. Spooky out there, ain't it :).............And don't forget the flare gun and homing device and your last will and testament and better bring a defibrilator in case you have a heart attack. Hehehe.Sounds like you have another brother named Darryl:D.

[leeki pole]

Sounds like a bunch of city folks venturing into the big bad wildy to me, lol. Spooky out there, ain't it :).............And don't forget the flare gun and homing device and your last will and testament and better bring a defibrilator in case you have a heart attack. Hehehe.
How many miles you got under your belt? You sound like an expert hiker.:cool:

[Darryl G]

How many miles you got under your belt? You sound like an expert hiker.:cool:

I dunno...somewhere around 3K miles backpacking.....AT, JMT and approx northern third of CDT. I don't claim to be an expert in anything.

But I was thinking back on my days on the AT...funny thing is that the mostly likely places to loose your way are at road crossings and in towns...that was the case for me anyway.

[Jack Tarlin]

Not spooky at all, Darryl. It's just that some of us have spent a lot of wasted man-hours trying to help out (and help find) people who were unfortunate enough to rely on foolish information........such as the info you're suggesting today.

Which is, by the way, lousy information.

[fiddlehead]

...and probably because those who wander AND are not lost usually know how to use a map and compass? :P


But do not ask me where I am heading,
As I travel in this limitless world
Where every step I take is my home
~ Portion of a Poem by Eihei Dogen ~

[Lone Wolf]

all this quoting of sniffers is BS. carry maps. it's smart

[fiddlehead]

Don't be afraid to tell us how you really feel now LW.

I'll continue to travel my way, at least until i find a better one.
And if it's people like Emerson, or Lao Tsu who help me get there rather than the ATC's strip maps, well that's ok with me. HYOH

I believe the OP asked for options.

[10-K]

It is possible to walk the AT without maps because it is generally well-marked.

However, if you run into problems, such as an injury, a forest fire, or even getting lost, a map could save your life. You also need a compass.

On many other trails, a map is a necessity just for daily hiking.

I always take a compass and never used it until this week. I left Davenport Gap shelter when everything was covered in snow and while it was sleeting. I walked for a while (I was by myself) and for some reason I started questioning whether I made the proper turn to get back on the trail or if I was going in the wrong direction. Everything looked the same - my mind started playing tricks on me. I'd think, "Yep, I passed this yesterday - and look - that too - you're definitely going the wrong way.".

I stopped for a minute to collect my thoughts and try to remember leaving the shelter when I remembered I had my compass. I took it out and immediately knew I was going in the right direction.

I know that most people aren't this careless and this probably would only happen to someone as scatter brained as I can be sometime but I also never though I'd do something like walk in the wrong direction. In my case it was more of my mind screwing with me than anything else but having a compass settled the problem instantly and I continued on without the anxiety.

[GGS2]

10K, I don't think there is anyone who has been out in the bush or on a trail for any length of time who has not found themselves in this situation. It is very easy to get turned around. All it takes is a momentary lapse of concentration, and it is very easy in white-out or unfamiliar conditions. One of the old lessons in bush-whacking trail craft was to hike a section and then turn around an try to see where you had come! The kicker was, always blaze the BACK side of the tree. Not that that is germain to the modern, white blazed trail. Point is, it is easy to get disoriented if you lose the track for even a short time. The so-called goat track and the blazes lead some to a complacency which is not warranted.

Someone who has a good TRUE picture of the country, who has NOT lost the picture, and who can and does use a compass can get through a lot of bush without too much trouble. This is the guy you want on a search or rescue party. But most of the people out on the trail are very green and can very easily get into trouble. They don't need encouragement to do that. A map can help even the most inexperienced reorient and recover. Nuff sed.

[Bare Bear]

On a thru hike where Weight Is Everything (the book I'll write someday) I did nto take a single AT map. In Florida I carried a complete set but it is not well marked. In Florida you can go two weeks without seeing another hiker. On the AT it is real hard to go a day without seeing a dozen even late on the Trail when the whiners have gone home. I do carry the Wingfoot and tried the ATC Book (carried each in three sections, one at a time). BUT if I do it again I will only carry a current Wingfoot. More data points, and more info generally plus it does have some maps included of trail towns you pass or nearby and gives all of the road directions to getting anywhere you really want to get to. You will see lots of maps in hiker boxes and at hostels to check. HYOH and best of luck.

[Darryl G]

Not spooky at all, Darryl. It's just that some of us have spent a lot of wasted man-hours trying to help out (and help find) people who were unfortunate enough to rely on foolish information........such as the info you're suggesting today.

Which is, by the way, lousy information.

Ummmm...I was kidding about bringing the flare gun and such. Sorry if that wasn't obvious.

The original question was whether or not a complete set of AT maps is needed. It's my opinion they are not needed, but are optional. I have hiked the trail without them, as have many people I know, and many whom have posted here. Therefore, clearly the answer is no, they are not needed. Yes, maps in the hands of somehow who knows have to use them can come in handy and I can understand you advising that they be carried.

However, I cannot understand the strong stance by some that it is somehow wreckless and foolish to hike the AT without them. In certain areas, they should be carried such as the White Mountains (as I've already stated), where the weather can be quite dangerous, especially in the exposed treeless areas where a mistake could cost you your life. In fact, I'd recommend that a complete copy of the most recent version of the White Mountain Guidebook be carried there. The footbed in some areas there is quite poor...something that is not readily apparent from the maps.

Please feel free to disagree with me Jack, but calling my information lousy and foolish is a bit harsh in my opinion. Perhaps you could find ways to word things a bit more kindly in the future so that you don't appear to be quite so abbrasive.

[rafe]

Jack, abrasive? LOL you aint seen nuthin. :banana :eek: :)

[10-K]

10K, I don't think there is anyone who has been out in the bush or on a trail for any length of time who has not found themselves in this situation. It is very easy to get turned around. All it takes is a momentary lapse of concentration, and it is very easy in white-out or unfamiliar conditions. One of the old lessons in bush-whacking trail craft was to hike a section and then turn around an try to see where you had come! The kicker was, always blaze the BACK side of the tree. Not that that is germain to the modern, white blazed trail. Point is, it is easy to get disoriented if you lose the track for even a short time. The so-called goat track and the blazes lead some to a complacency which is not warranted.

Someone who has a good TRUE picture of the country, who has NOT lost the picture, and who can and does use a compass can get through a lot of bush without too much trouble. This is the guy you want on a search or rescue party. But most of the people out on the trail are very green and can very easily get into trouble. They don't need encouragement to do that. A map can help even the most inexperienced reorient and recover. Nuff sed.


I've always liked maps. Back in the day when you could get free maps at service stations I used to collect them. I never was much with a compass until I took an outdoor survival course at the community college last semester where we spent about 25% of the course time learning to use map and compass together. Since then, I've made a point to stop on the trail every once in a while when I knew about where I was on the AT map and practice trianguating my position. (Shelter on a hill with a view is really good for this).

It's a cool thing to be able to do and it's not difficult at all.

[Panzer1]

Gonna bend the topic real fast cause I don't want to start a whole new thread.

Is it possible to buy the official maps along the trail? Or just best to buy the set and use mail drops?

Thanks.

You could call EMS and order them over the phone and have them mailed to you at a post office or hostel..
8:00 AM to 12:00 AM ET,
seven days a week.
1-888-463-6367

Mail you old maps home.

Panzer

[Jack Tarlin]

Darryl:

Nobody is debating on whether or not it is possible to hike the A.T. without maps.

As you pointed out, many folks have done this.

But this doesn't mean that it's a particularly wise thing to do. For example, due to heavy snowfall, there may well be streams in Maine this spring that are unfordable. People will have to go up or downstream, or bushwhack, because it may prove impossible to stick to the actual Trail. Getting lost in the Maine woods without maps, Darryl, is a really good way to get killed, especially early in the season.

Sorry if you thought I was abrasive, but telling people that they simply don't need maps to hike on the A.T. is lousy advice and bad information. You're welcome to disagree, but prudent people don't go into the woods and mountains without a map. Just because something worked out OK for you doesn't necessarily mean it's the wisest course for everyone.

[Darryl G]

Darryl:

Nobody is debating on whether or not it is possible to hike the A.T. without maps.

As you pointed out, many folks have done this.

But this doesn't mean that it's a particularly wise thing to do. For example, due to heavy snowfall, there may well be streams in Maine this spring that are unfordable. People will have to go up or downstream, or bushwhack, because it may prove impossible to stick to the actual Trail. Getting lost in the Maine woods without maps, Darryl, is a really good way to get killed, especially early in the season.

Sorry if you thought I was abrasive, but telling people that they simply don't need maps to hike on the A.T. is lousy advice and bad information. You're welcome to disagree, but prudent people don't go into the woods and mountains without a map. Just because something worked out OK for you doesn't necessarily mean it's the wisest course for everyone.

Sorry...still don't think you NEED a FULL SET of maps to hike the AT, which was the question. To me there's a difference between what's a real need and what may be advisable. And i never advised anyone not to carry one....you're putting words in my mouth....but w/e.

I have no desire to participate in discussions with you any longer....take care and have a nice life.

[Jail Break]

So... after WWIII (otherwise known as the "I might not need maps but I carry them anyway so no one calls me foolish if it turns out that I needed them and have to get rescued but thank God I had had them because they came in handy and from now on I might always carry them but admit they may not be necessary unless you actually need them" War) settles down, back to my original question which still hasn't been answered...

Are there anything BESIDES the ATC "Official" maps sets that one could use IN LIEU of those? Hagstrom, National Geographic, USGS, etc?

I value your severely contradicting opinions on whether or not to carry a map while hiking, but that's not what I was asking.

Me: "Hey... do you prefer down or synthetic fill sleeping bags?"

You: "WHAT!?!?!? Of course you need a sleeping bag! Don't be foolish!"

[Mags]

But do not ask me where I am heading,
As I travel in this limitless world
Where every step I take is my home
~ Portion of a Poem by Eihei Dogen ~

Hmm..I am still not sure how blindly following white blazes makes one adventurous and off the beaten path... ;)

[climberdave]

You don't need a FULL set of maps. There I said it. There nice, I love 'em, but you don't need the FULL $ 200 set of maps to TH the AT. I'd take some, but not all of them.

The ATC maps are the best source of information for the AT. Other maps are available - atlas, road, forest service, USGS 7.5 and 15, DRG's but the AT maps contain loads of info pertaining to the trail. If you're going to buy maps get the the ATC's as not only do you get the most recent data you also keep the $ in the family :)

The trail and shelter points are available online as shape files. If you have a pro copy of Google Earth you could load them directly onto the imagery and cut up your own maps. If you have ArcMap you can convert .shp file to kmz or kml and load them to the free version of Google Earth.
http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.jkLXJ8MQKtH/b.851255/k.4226/Appalachian_Trail_GIS_and_GPS_Data.htm (http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.jkLXJ8MQKtH/b.851255/k.4226/Appalachian_Trail_GIS_and_GPS_Data.htm)

How's that :)

"maps? we don't need no stinking maps"

[ki0eh]

If you're going to buy maps get the the ATC's as not only do you get the most recent data you also keep the $ in the family :)


Thanks for pithily pointing out the relevance of the provenance of the maps!


The trail and shelter points are available online as shape files. If you have a pro copy of Google Earth you could load them directly onto the imagery and cut up your own maps. If you have ArcMap you can convert .shp file to kmz or kml and load them to the free version of Google Earth.
http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.jkLXJ8MQKtH/b.851255/k.4226/Appalachian_Trail_GIS_and_GPS_Data.htm (http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.jkLXJ8MQKtH/b.851255/k.4226/Appalachian_Trail_GIS_and_GPS_Data.htm)


Depends on your license level of ArcMap or what extensions you have. However the most recent version 5.2.33 of "DNR Garmin" (Google it) will convert freely among .shp., .kml, and .gpx , no Arc required, and you can thank the Minnesota taxpayer for this "free" software!

[climberdave]

Thanks Minnesota taxpayers :)

[saimyoji]

So... after WWIII (otherwise known as the "I might not need maps but I carry them anyway so no one calls me foolish if it turns out that I needed them and have to get rescued but thank God I had had them because they came in handy and from now on I might always carry them but admit they may not be necessary unless you actually need them" War) settles down, back to my original question which still hasn't been answered...

Are there anything BESIDES the ATC "Official" maps sets that one could use IN LIEU of those? Hagstrom, National Geographic, USGS, etc?

I value your severely contradicting opinions on whether or not to carry a map while hiking, but that's not what I was asking.

Me: "Hey... do you prefer down or synthetic fill sleeping bags?"

You: "WHAT!?!?!? Of course you need a sleeping bag! Don't be foolish!"

Just in case you missed this.