View Full Version : Large dogs on the trail
justletgo
03-04-2008, 08:22
My dog is a pretty big guy (88lbs) but absolutely loves hiking. He is fine off leash or on, extremely laid back, not dog aggressive, no problems as of yet except a few other dogs who weren't too friendly [and the Jack Russell puppy who spent 30 minutes humping my dog's head].
I worry more that something will happen on the trail; this guy is over half my weight by a lot, and there is not a lot of chance of me carrying him far or at all. Also, I worry about him getting overheated (not so much right now, more like in the middle of NC/Ga summers).
Thoughts/opinions/experiences?
The Weasel
03-04-2008, 09:47
Just:
I have some thoughts, as well as experiences, and they are not supportive. I'm not anti-dog, but my experiences are born of hiking with my own Lab, Chase, as well as a lot of time on trails.
First, you must leash Big Guy all the time. I mean all. When he gets into the woods, he's going to have a lot of new exciting smells, even if he's smelled them before. If he gets one - one - that is so close and doggy-intense that it makes him run over a small rise despite your calls, he may end up lost, and your voice may not carry because of all the hills and coves. I've seen it happen, and I've seen people spend weeks looking for their dog. It's a death sentence. I know you feel Big Guy will come when called every time. Are you willing to be his life on it?
Second, when coming on new people who smell different, and not always "good" - because they have intense, if natural, body odors - Big Guy may be confused and defensive. Those people may do strange things that he's not used to, like banging pots or being part of huge - to him - things like tents. That's stressing to a dog, and he may act out of character and be defensive/aggressive.
Lastly, you're right about injuries and physical problems. You may think he's "fit" but dog legs are not structured for the kind of long, constant walking that you're doing. Yes, some dogs can do the Iditarod. They also train for it as much as marathon runners. Whether its an adequate volume of food - in calorie value, nearly what you need - and water (more, since drinking is a major method of cooling, since dog's can't sweat to cool their body cores) or any of the other physical problems that Big Guy can't tell you he's feeling, it is really tough on your dog.
I sometimes take Chase with me, but he is on leash 24/7 for his safety and that of others. His gear (yes, he needs more than food; he needs a blanket and small pad, and other items) adds to my weight even with dog packs for him. He adds to my work, and is at risk. It's not easy leaving him home, but I do, for his sake.
TW
I hiked about 1,000 miles with my 80lb long haired mutt. He's probably one of the worst dogs you'd ever encounter... but he had a grand old time. He'd definately come back with me if I went again. We never had any problem with overheating, he managed to find water himself and carried his own food- and since he was so big could carry some of my gear as well which was a nice bonus.
He hiked off leash despite hating people, managed to find two porcupines, fall off a waterfall, down two steep cliffs in which he needed a boost, and occasionally in the whites his pack would get stuck and he'd need some help. I'm not a huge person either- about 110lbs and pretty wimpy and we both managed to get through it fine.
We also both had no previous training, he is a young guy, so his age didn't slow him down, but I think it did cause he to get in more trouble than most. If you do bring your dog prepare him for tent sleeping... a nice windtunnel was created one night when Phil broke one of our poles and left a gaping hole...
Ragardless, he had a blast and came home safe and sound. If you really are a dog person and are prepared to spend 24 hours with your guy then go for it. It's good bonding. Most people are not used to spending that much time with their dogs and it's difficult. Make sure he knows his recall really well in addition, because having them come back is useful. I never worried too much about Phil's safety, except for the week he spent lost in Duncannon, but even then he came back fine.
As you can see, he pretty much got into every kind of trouble you could feasibly imagine happening and the end result was the same as a dog who hadn't gotten into trouble. I don't know whether this is for or against bringing your dog, but these are the things that can happen, and they can turn out just fine if you know your dog well enough.
RiverWarriorPJ
03-05-2008, 03:11
Well said Madeleine (Jones)....
If you plan on using shelters and campsites, your dog is a liability. The AT is used by folks of all ages. That includes children. In general, I don't look forward to encounters with large, unleashed dogs on the trail. My reaction to large, unleashed dogs ranges from annoyance to fear. Leashed, well-behaved dogs are less of an issue -- but can still be a bother in shelters and at campsites.
A few months ago there was a thread here on WB about a fatal shooting on a trail -- not the AT. Without rehashing that ugly business I'd simply point out that the trigger event for that shooting were two unleashed dogs owned by a fellow camping in the woods. An armed hiker was surprised by the dogs and started shooting. The dogs' owner ran after them, and he ended up dead. The shooter is in jail.
He's probably one of the worst dogs you'd ever encounter...
He hiked off leash despite hating people
Very irresponsible. If you're dog hates people, (1) the dog shouldn't be off leash, (2) shouldn't be on the trail. I'd suggest skipping your next backpacking trip and spend that time properly training your dog.
Critterman
03-05-2008, 10:43
I hiked about 1,000 miles with my 80lb long haired mutt. ............He hiked off leash despite hating people, managed to find two porcupines, fall off a waterfall, down two steep cliffs in which he needed a boost, and occasionally in the whites his pack would get stuck ................. .......... I never worried too much about Phil's safety, except for the week he spent lost in Duncannon, but even then he came back fine. .........Ragardless, he had a blast and came home safe and sound.....
It is a miracle.
bloodmountainman
03-05-2008, 11:11
I personally do not like dogs on the trail. They can be a huge annoyance. I've had to pack out in the middle of the night, because of dogs in camp.
I have been bitten by a dor one time on a backpaking trip and let me tell you if you dont keep your dog on a leash you will not only have problems with the dog, you will probably have problems with fellow hikers. The dog that bit me was at camp anf the girl had no control of the dog. The dog was freaked out about being in the woods you could tell it was scared. I am sorry but that didnt keep a leiki pole from the top of its head. My safety first! Good luck with your dog and I hope you hike with a leash.
Weasel covered it, I'll just add my own opinions, having hiked/walked/ran with my own lab for over 7yrs & thousands of miles.
It's not a question of size or weight, it's control. You must be in control of your dog at all times. If the rules say animals must be leashed, then use a leash. You know your dog better than anyone, but other hikers on the trail no nothing about him. The fact he "loves hiking, is fine on or off the leash and laid back" means nothing to anyone else except you. I take the assumption that, any dog on the trail, including mine, is a nusiance, unwelcome and annoying to other hikers, unless told otherwise. I keep him leashed and away from others. I have had many, many experiences with hikers and dogs on the trail, good and bad, and have found common courtesy and respect go a long way. Good luck and good hiking.
Critterman
03-05-2008, 12:43
Weasel covered it, I'll just add my own opinions, having hiked/walked/ran with my own lab for over 7yrs & thousands of miles.
It's not a question of size or weight, it's control. You must be in control of your dog at all times. If the rules say animals must be leashed, then use a leash. You know your dog better than anyone, but other hikers on the trail no nothing about him. The fact he "loves hiking, is fine on or off the leash and laid back" means nothing to anyone else except you. I take the assumption that, any dog on the trail, including mine, is a nusiance, unwelcome and annoying to other hikers, unless told otherwise. I keep him leashed and away from others. I have had many, many experiences with hikers and dogs on the trail, good and bad, and have found common courtesy and respect go a long way. Good luck and good hiking.
Wise words, thank you. What a contrast between your attitude and jones post above. You love your dog enough to keep him safe and adult enough to respect others on the trail.
The Weasel
03-05-2008, 13:19
As a furthe comment:
I came to Wesser Bald late one grey morning in '00, and a man rushed up to me. "Have you seen this dog," he asked, and showed me a picture. It was a really cute Labrador, black. "That's my dog. I lost him last week when I was here. We stopped and I took him off his leash so he could run some and we threw sticks. He saw a deer at the edge of the woods and suddenly started chasing it. I called him but he didn't come back. He never did that before. I've been going up and down the trail and posting these flyers at trail heads and other places." He was crying. Grown man, late 30s or early 40s, crying. I started crying too. My Lab had died the year before. I went on, up the trail. As I re-entered the woods, he was still there, calling for his dog.
Haunted me, still does. "He never did that before."
Man killed his dog when he unhooked that leash. May not have meant it. Killed the dog.
TW
Pennsylvania Rose
03-05-2008, 14:43
I hiked about 1,000 miles with my 80lb long haired mutt. He's probably one of the worst dogs you'd ever encounter...
He hiked off leash despite hating people,
I hike with my dog all the time, and like most dogs once I get to know them...but this infuriates me...think about how my 40-lb, 5 yo son would feel if your 80 lb dog came running down the trail toward him...and what my husband might do, 'cause he would assume your dog was going to hurt the boy.
managed to find two porcupines, fall off a waterfall, down two steep cliffs in which he needed a boost, and occasionally in the whites his pack would get stuck and he'd need some help...Make sure he knows his recall really well, because having them come back is useful. I never worried too much about Phil's safety, except for the week he spent lost in Duncannon
You got lucky, plain and simple. Leash your dog. It's pretty easy to teach your dog to walk on a leash without pulling. It only took 15 minutes of hiking for mine to learn to fall into step just behind me and wait to jump over obstacles until I was safely over.
Maybe I mistated, yes he is evil... but I have some of the best control over my dog around people that I know. This is because I KNOW my dog and how he will react, so he wouldn't go barreling down the trail towards your son, he doesn't have the chance. While he has his mischievious wood adventures I was not going to let him have the chance to endanger anyone, and proper care was taken when passing other people and he actually got a lot better around people because of this.
He has also attended 4 dog obdience classes, and continues to do so, which he has fun at... but doesn't always take what he knows outside the classroom.
I don't actually think I was lucky, I expected all of the things he got into and came prepared to deal with it. If "luck" was the only reason he was still around, he wouldn't be.
So while he is one of the worst dogs, I am not one of the owners without control over the dog, if that makes sense, I spend enough time around him to know how he will react in situations. That's what is necessary to hike with the dog off leash. And yes, his actions suggest I don't have control over him- but he hasn't bitten anyone, and if you'd have met him two years ago he might have. He's gotten a lot better and hiking has helped with that.
Your safety, your sons safety, and anyone elses saftey was never at stake. If he was the type of dog to lunge at people he would have been leashed completely and forever, but he's not, and that's not how he reacts. And I know a lot about fear aggression issues, enough to know this.
Mrs Baggins
03-05-2008, 17:57
My initial reaction is always "LEAVE THE DOG HOME!" You're the only one who really thinks he's cute, well behaved, loving, etc. People may nod and smile at you and your pet but most of them are thinking "Oh gees no." I've approached too many shelters just to have some dog come roaring out at me because it thought I was invading it's territory. I've had them sniff all around me and my food in a very unwelcome manner. I've encountered them unleashed on the trail with no owner in sight and was scared to death - how could I know if it's a "good" dog or not?? I've seen the owners hug and kiss all over the dog and then reach out and touch someone else's food. And are you digging a "cat" hole for that dog?? Picking it up and carrying it out??? The stench is worse than any what any wild animal leaves behind.
Critterman
03-05-2008, 18:57
...................... If "luck" was the only reason he was still around, he wouldn't be..................
God loves your dog and looks out for him because you don't. I learned along time ago that irresponsible people will refuse to see what is so obviously irresponsible behavior on their part and rationalize their actions. Some day your dog and possibly an innocent bystander will pay the price for your actions and even then you will make an excuse for your behavior.
take your dog. if it's good off leash leave it off, but keep control of it. don't camp around shelters, shelter people don't like dogs. i hike with big dogs all the time. the worst dog injury that i can remember in the last 15 years has been a broken toe nail, which bleeds a whole lot more than one might think, but nothing that a little super glue won't fix.
there are a bunch of hikers out there that don't like dogs for what ever reason, and what it really boils down to is the fact that it's your hike, do what you want, and if others don't like it, well, then they don't have to hang out with you, but don't impose your dog on others who may not approve either.
RiverWarriorPJ
03-05-2008, 22:03
Me & my 80lb pUp will be on the Trail in a few hours.......on & off the leash....stop up & say SumTin..
there are a bunch of hikers out there that don't like dogs for what ever reason, and what it really boils down to is the fact that it's your hike, do what you want, and if others don't like it, well, then they don't have to hang out with you, but don't impose your dog on others who may not approve either.
Sorry, but a rambunctious dog off-leash is bound to "impose" on other hikers sooner or later. It doesn't matter if he's friendly. A stranger doesn't know your dog. The stranger might be a child. The stranger only sees an animal coming at him...
desdemona
03-05-2008, 23:59
Weasel covered it, I'll just add my own opinions, having hiked/walked/ran with my own lab for over 7yrs & thousands of miles.
It's not a question of size or weight, it's control. You must be in control of your dog at all times. If the rules say animals must be leashed, then use a leash. You know your dog better than anyone, but other hikers on the trail no nothing about him. The fact he "loves hiking, is fine on or off the leash and laid back" means nothing to anyone else except you. I take the assumption that, any dog on the trail, including mine, is a nusiance, unwelcome and annoying to other hikers, unless told otherwise. I keep him leashed and away from others. I have had many, many experiences with hikers and dogs on the trail, good and bad, and have found common courtesy and respect go a long way. Good luck and good hiking.
Maybe its more dog friendly here, but I would be hard pressed to find some of the attitudes (not the above) that I have read here. Still a well-behaved dog is a great and good thing, beyond hiking. I am training my Corgi (though it is a small dog) not to jump on anyone, even if they don't mind. Other good commands are "leave it", "look at me" (as opposed to something else), etc.
I also really dislike unleashed dogs. Fine if you aren't going to see anyone for hours, but it is unnerving to be rushed by even a friendly dog that comes at you human-less. Then the human appears and calls out "He's friendly". Whew!
I put an extension rope on her leash. I can let her out if I want, otherwise it is easy enough to get her close and fast. (This is much easier to handle than a Flexi). It's also useful for scrambling.
--des
The Weasel
03-06-2008, 00:20
This is because I KNOW my dog and how he will react
Jones, whether it is about aggression or running off, you only know your dog until you learn that you didn't know that one little thing that made all the difference. Tragically, it will be your dog who suffers the worst from that. I'm sorry, but that is true.
TW
minnesotasmith
03-06-2008, 00:39
The more likely it is to either seriously injure someone, or to get bear-sprayed or shot. Small ones may just get laughed at or (nonlethally) footballed.
On the leash, or left at home. No excuses, as no, your dog is NOT special.
Maybe its more dog friendly here, but I would be hard pressed to find some of the attitudes (not the above) that I have read here. Still a well-behaved dog is a great and good thing, beyond hiking. I am training my Corgi (though it is a small dog) not to jump on anyone, even if they don't mind. Other good commands are "leave it", "look at me" (as opposed to something else), etc.
I also really dislike unleashed dogs. Fine if you aren't going to see anyone for hours, but it is unnerving to be rushed by even a friendly dog that comes at you human-less. Then the human appears and calls out "He's friendly". Whew!
I put an extension rope on her leash. I can let her out if I want, otherwise it is easy enough to get her close and fast. (This is much easier to handle than a Flexi). It's also useful for scrambling.
--desThis forum was created for constructive dialogue IRT dogs on the trail. Let's not make work for the moderator. Take the point to "General " and roll with it.
minnesotasmith
03-06-2008, 04:56
This forum was created for constructive dialogue IRT dogs on the trail. Let's not make work for the moderator. Take the point to "General " and roll with it.
It is legitimate to point out that different-sized dogs are likely to have different outcomes when let loose on the Trail. No one is arguing here that dogs shouldn't be taken hiking period, which on this subforum WOULD be grounds for moderator intervention.
My dog is a pretty big guy (88lbs) but absolutely loves hiking. He is fine off leash or on, extremely laid back, not dog aggressive, no problems as of yet except a few other dogs who weren't too friendly [and the Jack Russell puppy who spent 30 minutes humping my dog's head]............ETC,ETC,ETC,Thoughts/opinions/experiences?
Leave your dog @ home with a friend!
Dogs on the trail should NEVER be UN-LEASHED...& remember, the first thing an owner always says after a dog attack...."i dont know what happened...he has never done that before!"
LEAVE FIDO HOME!:D
desdemona
03-06-2008, 11:23
This forum was created for constructive dialogue IRT dogs on the trail. Let's not make work for the moderator. Take the point to "General " and roll with it.
Huh, I was kind of stating that maybe things were different in NM?? I also haven't seen such attitudes on another hiking forum (international). I don't think it's a general or moderator concern. The discussion has mostly been appropriate. I just don't quite understand it. In Europe for instance, dogs and even cats are in stores and restaurants and it is quite typical. Attitudes about such things are cultural. I'm just culturally different about this.
I understand about unruly or vicious dogs, esp. unleashed.
I think people need to be realistic on how their dogs really are, esp. people or dog aggressive ones. Also not everybody loves to be jumped up on by a rambunctious dog. I am working hard on getting Torie to not jump. She gets reinforced all the time by people who don't care. But not everyone loves it.
--des
justletgo
03-07-2008, 07:57
Wow, it's pretty obvious that not many people actually read my post.
I said he is fine off leash OR ON.
Also, I'm hammock camping, so shelters won't be a problem. I take him everywhere I go as it is right now, bouldering is pretty much the only thing I do that I don't bring him.
I was asking for suggestions as to what I could do were something to happen to my dog. Leaving him home isn't an option.
Thank you for the more helpful replies, though.
So while he is one of the worst dogs, I am not one of the owners without control over the dog, if that makes sense, I spend enough time around him to know how he will react in situations. That's what is necessary to hike with the dog off leash. And yes, his actions suggest I don't have control over him- but he hasn't bitten anyone, and if you'd have met him two years ago he might have. He's gotten a lot better and hiking has helped with that.
Zeus was a hellian the first six months I had him (I found him when he was 3mos old and 30lbs). This is just my opinion, but when a dog is misbehaved, it's because he thinks he's in charge, not you.
justletgo
03-07-2008, 08:01
Also, couldn't find edit button, but ^^, my dog doesn't jump on anyone, including me. I knew when he was a puppy how big he'd get, so I worked very hard on that aspect of training. Seriously, I have tried to get this guy to jump up on me (he could put his paws on my shoulders) but he refuses now. He does lean, though.
minnesotasmith
03-07-2008, 08:18
Wow, it's pretty obvious that not many people actually read my post.
I said he is fine off leash OR ON.
.
It's that some of us thoughtfully disagreed with you. As in, you're at best half right.
Leaving him home isn't an option.
Then, use the word "behind" instead, as in at left behind at Mom's/Dad's/sister's/brother's/neighbor's/children's/ coworker's/friend's, etc., whenever the unreasonable urge to set your dog loose upon a public hiking trail is going to overcome your inclination to be considerate to other hikers. If there is not one person that you are related to or remotely friends with within driving distance (that you can leave your dog with), then hit the Yellow pages or local classifieds for dog sitters, kennels, veterinarians, etc. If you choose to own an animal, then making appropriate provisions for its care when you're not going to be there with it, and can't appropriately take it with you, is mandated.
justletgo
03-07-2008, 08:46
Okay: Leaving him "behind" isn't an option. I am asking for advice on what to do should something happen to him, for the third time.
If you are opposed to people bringing dogs on trails, maybe you shouldn't be in a forum titled "Dogs on the Trail". I can, in fact "appropriately take it with (me)" and I am going to do so.
It's kind of funny, I've never run into you anti-dog people on any trails. Maybe too much time spent dictating what others should do, rather than enjoying yourself and not being uptight about things? A little empathy goes a long way.
Huh, I was kind of stating that maybe things were different in NM?? I also haven't seen such attitudes on another hiking forum (international). I don't think it's a general or moderator concern. The discussion has mostly been appropriate. I just don't quite understand it. In Europe for instance, dogs and even cats are in stores and restaurants and it is quite typical. Attitudes about such things are cultural. I'm just culturally different about this.
I understand about unruly or vicious dogs, esp. unleashed.
I think people need to be realistic on how their dogs really are, esp. people or dog aggressive ones. Also not everybody loves to be jumped up on by a rambunctious dog. I am working hard on getting Torie to not jump. She gets reinforced all the time by people who don't care. But not everyone loves it.
--desI actually wasn't picking on your post, I just see where some of this was going and was trying to be mindful of the sticky on this forum. The original post was looking for help IRT hiking with his big dog. Didn't take long for someone to say "Leave the dog home". That's not what this forum was created for. Oh well, I'm not a moderator and wasn't trying to be one. I'll bow out of this one.:sun
The Weasel
03-07-2008, 10:19
Okay: Leaving him "behind" isn't an option. I am asking for advice on what to do should something happen to him, for the third time.
If you are opposed to people bringing dogs on trails, maybe you shouldn't be in a forum titled "Dogs on the Trail". I can, in fact "appropriately take it with (me)" and I am going to do so.
It's kind of funny, I've never run into you anti-dog people on any trails. Maybe too much time spent dictating what others should do, rather than enjoying yourself and not being uptight about things? A little empathy goes a long way.
J---
I think a large part of the lack of advice about what to do should something happen to your dog is because of the fact that there aren't a lot of good options, but you've taken the "leave him home" option off the table.
My dog, Chase, is a smallish yellow Lab, so I've given some thought to this. the problem is that if a large dog is injured, you basically have three options, none good and all very bad on the AT: (1) Carry him out. This means leaving your gear behind and finding a way to carry an injured animal, probably thrashing in pain and biting if the injury is severe, a long distance. Carrying her/him may worsen the injury unless you can find someone to help by carrying in a litter/stretcher made from trail materials. Either carrying or stretchering is nearly impossible. (2) Treat yourself and hope for the best. This involves a long - even days or a week - stop by the trail, and unless you're really well trained, at least to Vet Tech standards, you may be letting your dog get worse, not better. (3) Leave your dog secured (somehow) and get help brought in, such as a vet. This means abandoning your dog for the hours or day or two it will take to get a vet who will hike in, if you can find one, which is doubtful and, even then, probably horrendously expensive.
Each of these means taking huge risks with your dog. I've found them unacceptably high for me to take my dog on any trail that is not very close to road access and without a hiking partner who knows my dog.
As for "never meeting anyone on the trail who minds you having your dog," many, if not most, of the people you meet wish you didn't have her/him there. But one doesn't start that kind of conversation or say that sort of thing to someone with a dog for a lot of reasons, such as not wanting a disagreement that can get ugly. Instead, people smile, pat your dog, and wish you were elsewhere.
This goes for people who avoid shelters, too; you will still have high levels of contact with other people along the trail. They will be more considerate of you than they think you are being of them, and not force their wishes of "no dog here" on you although you are forcing yours, of "dog is here", on them.
Sorry. You're hearing from people on this forum who don't dislike you, but are giving you their most honest opinions, both ways.
TW
the goat
03-07-2008, 10:39
Man killed his dog when he unhooked that leash. May not have meant it. Killed the dog.
you're so dramatic...:rolleyes:
man lost his dog when he unhooked the leash.
you're so dramatic...:rolleyes:
man lost his dog when he unhooked the leash.It reads like some closing arguments, doesn't it.;)
the goat
03-07-2008, 10:45
The more likely it is to either seriously injure someone, or to get bear-sprayed or shot. Small ones may just get laughed at or (nonlethally) footballed.
On the leash, or left at home. No excuses, as no, your dog is NOT special.
lol! you're the only one toting a big can of bear spray.
why would you worry anyways, it would be hard for dog to bite through three pairs of gaiters!:D
Critterman
03-07-2008, 11:08
...............I worry more that something will happen on the trail; this guy is over half my weight by a lot, and there is not a lot of chance of me carrying him far or at all. Also, I worry about him getting overheated (not so much right now, more like in the middle of NC/Ga summers)...............Thoughts/opinions/experiences?
There are a hundred minor problems you could have that won't stop your dog from hiking and can wait a day or so until you get to town. There are a few show stoppers that have a good chance of happening. Think about what could happen and then think how you would handle it. Most likely injuries causing your dog not to be able to walk would be foot problems not broken bones. Dogs injury their pads and cut their feet so bandage material and knowing how to use it properly would be good. Heat stress and heat stroke would be concerns. You will be able to see this developing and going slower and taking breaks will be able to prevent it. Full blown heat stroke in the woods will probably be fatal but the best treatment would be immersion in a creek to lower body temperature. Venomous snake bite would be a big problem and unless you were close to town it might be fatal. Diarrhea and vomiting could be big problems if severe enough so be careful what your dog eats and drinks. Carry some meds for that as well. If you read the posts from jones about her dog then you know that owner stupidity is the biggest hazard on the trail. Keeping her dog on a leash would have prevented the falls off the cliffs, waterfalls, being lost for a week etc. Reread the post from the Weasel about the guy who lost his dog. Trust me that this " I know my dog " stuff is a load. You can not depend on that. Ask your Vet how many mangled and dead dogs he/she has seen over the years that " never did that before ". If jones knew her dog so well, then how did all that bad stuff happen?
Sorry for the long post but there is an answer for you.
one other thing- learn how to make a temporary muzzle to protect yourself in case you have to do something to help your dog that might be painful to the dog ( such as attend to a wound, broken nail, remove thorns from the pad etc.)
desdemona
03-07-2008, 11:12
I actually wasn't picking on your post, I just see where some of this was going and was trying to be mindful of the sticky on this forum. The original post was looking for help IRT hiking with his big dog. Didn't take long for someone to say "Leave the dog home". That's not what this forum was created for. Oh well, I'm not a moderator and wasn't trying to be one. I'll bow out of this one.:sun
Yeah, I was curious. Actually making a case for dogs ON the trail (with exceptions). I really strongly believe in it. But perhaps we should just ignore the naysayers. Maybe they'll go away. :)
Big dogs are cool. They might be a little easier to hold on to. Although there is nothing cooler than a Corgi. :-)
--des
why, why, do some people dislike hikin' dogs so much? you never see hiker dog people jumping all over some hiker dog hater, but there is always a number of hiker dog haters just waiting to jump on some hiker dog lover. why is that? when i'm hiking with or without my dog, i could care less about someone elses business. point is, say, i was at an established camp site with my dog, some person comes up, doesn't like the dog, the idea of dogs on the trail, my smell, what i'm having for dinner, or what ever, that person has every right to move on to some other place in the wilderness. 200 yards down the trail, the whole situation is 5 minutes in history. what's the big deal? justletgo says his dog is good on or off leash. why should a dog be on leash if it is just as good off? i personally have my dog or dogs behind me off leash when hiking. actually, a dog on a rope, attached to its owner, makes a dog more protective of that owner. i've been around a bunch of dogs, i've never had a problem with a loose dog, it's the ones in cages and on chains that i'm concerned about.
maybe, what people don't understand is that good voice command control is far more effective and much better for the dogs state of mind than attaching it to a leash. the owner is happier, and the dog is happier.
there's a lot of woods out there folks. one persons little piece doesn't have to be the same as someone elses little piece.
minnesotasmith
03-07-2008, 16:33
"...what people don't understand is that good voice command control is far more effective and much better for the dogs state of mind than attaching it to a leash.
I've never seen a large, sturdy leash break when a dog runs towards something it considers more interesting than what its owner wants. I've seen plenty of supposedly-"good" dogs ignore their owners pleas, and keep on attacking a smaller dog, run after wildlife, head out into a busy road, head for the county line at a ceaseless 30-mph, etc.
The dog's peace, of mind, who cares. It's an animal, with its rights fundamentally inferior to those of humans not its owner. If it's so fragile it can't psychologically handle nonnegotiable limits on its behavior, it doesn't need to be out in public, off its owner's property.
I love dogs. Fido's record sez that one day his willfulness will catch up with him, but it looks like your desire for his company has blinded you. When something bad happens, he will suffer & you'll be left holding the bag. Sad sicherayshun.
The Weasel
03-07-2008, 18:10
you're so dramatic...:rolleyes:
man lost his dog when he unhooked the leash.
Dog dyin' is dramatic, too, but no one to see it happen makes it more than drama, makes it tragedy. Greeks used to say that tragedy is a result that causes a sense of deep sadness and pity, resulting from an unfortunate mistake. Dog died from that mistake. Like I said, that's tragedy, and that dog's dead, and it didn't have to die.
TW
The Weasel
03-07-2008, 18:16
I've never seen a large, sturdy leash break when a dog runs towards something it considers more interesting than what its owner wants. I've seen plenty of supposedly-"good" dogs ignore their owners pleas, and keep on attacking a smaller dog, run after wildlife, head out into a busy road, head for the county line at a ceaseless 30-mph, etc.
The dog's peace, of mind, who cares. It's an animal, with its rights fundamentally inferior to those of humans not its owner. If it's so fragile it can't psychologically handle nonnegotiable limits on its behavior, it doesn't need to be out in public, off its owner's property.
My wife drove over a dog last week, and killed it. It was unseen, out in traffic, and she couldn't avoid it. It wasn't on a leash, and it obviosly wasn't responding to it's owner's calls. Her only choice would have been to swerve into traffic, but she's been crying about it for a week now, and the dog is dead.
Wonder it it's owner is sitting at home saying, "I wonder why Sparky didn't come when I called. He always did before."
Just takes one time to be wrong. Kinda hard on the dog, hard on the owner, maybe tough on somebody's wife, too.
TW
Critterman
03-07-2008, 18:18
................maybe, what people don't understand is that good voice command control is far more effective and much better for the dogs state of mind than attaching it to a leash. the owner is happier, and the dog is happier.....................
It is like driving without your seatbelt. You might go a life time without needing it but everyday somebody dies because they weren't wearing one. Leashes are the same thing for your dog. Every day dogs die because their owner had "good voice control" right up until the dog was confronted with a situation where "good voice control" didn't work. Believe it, don't believe it, I don't care but it is the truth. I have seen it far too many times. Don't let your ego kill your dog.
Appalachian Tater
03-07-2008, 18:20
I wouldn't have a problem with dogs being under voice control if I could see it like I can a leash. Most every time I have come up on a nasty barking growling teeth-baring unleashed dog, the owner tried to assure me there was no problem, their dog wouldn't hurt me, it's friendly, etc. I like dogs as long as I know that they are not a threat to me. A leash not only protects your dog from injury or getting lost, but is respectful to other people.
the goat
03-07-2008, 18:29
Dog dyin' is dramatic, too, but no one to see it happen makes it more than drama, makes it tragedy. Greeks used to say that tragedy is a result that causes a sense of deep sadness and pity, resulting from an unfortunate mistake. Dog died from that mistake. Like I said, that's tragedy, and that dog's dead, and it didn't have to die.
regardless of what greeks used to say, you have no more idea of whether that dog's alive or dead than i do.
that's what lawyers call "speculation".
i hiked with a guy in NH for a few days in 2001 heading south, when one day he lost the AT and i hiked on ahead, never seeing him again. is he dead too?
leeki pole
03-07-2008, 18:58
It is like driving without your seatbelt. You might go a life time without needing it but everyday somebody dies because they weren't wearing one. Leashes are the same thing for your dog. Every day dogs die because their owner had "good voice control" right up until the dog was confronted with a situation where "good voice control" didn't work. Believe, don't believe it, I don't care but it is the truth. I have seen it far too many times. Don't let your ego kill your dog.
My ego has nothing to do with "voice control", thanks very much. My Lab understands voice and hand commands after three years of very hard work. I would not hesitate to take him on the Trail. Having said that, I respect other hikers and would not subject them to any fear they might have of seeing my dog unleashed. It's sad that my best buddy can't enjoy the same things that I do because some poor owners don't take the time and effort to train their dog to be a good citizen. He wouldn't be happy on a leash, and he wouldn't be a burden to any of you. So I guess he'll stay at home, or in the kennel, sadly. Too bad there are so many dog haters out there.
Too bad there are so many dog haters out there.
There's not... only on here.
The Weasel
03-07-2008, 19:11
My ego has nothing to do with "voice control", thanks very much. My Lab understands voice and hand commands after three years of very hard work. I would not hesitate to take him on the Trail. Having said that, I respect other hikers and would not subject them to any fear they might have of seeing my dog unleashed. It's sad that my best buddy can't enjoy the same things that I do because some poor owners don't take the time and effort to train their dog to be a good citizen. He wouldn't be happy on a leash, and he wouldn't be a burden to any of you. So I guess he'll stay at home, or in the kennel, sadly. Too bad there are so many dog haters out there.
Leeli,
Some of those who are against dogs on the trail are dog lovers. too. I'm one. Mine is my best buddy, too. But other than short weekenders, I don't take him. Because I love him.
I know how you feel, and I wish I had a better answer. I'm sorry.
TW
I used to own dogs in the country. We had a bunch. They were a problem. We couldn't bear to keep them on a yard leash all the time, and they weren't happy, either. But then one of them got a taste of running the local cows, and we had to keep them close. They also used to get into porcupines. One of them just never did learn about the spines. Even so, they all eventually died on the road in front. Like most country roads, people didn't worry too much about speed limits, and it was a nice straight section that was a bit of a thoroughfare. We'd find them in the ditch, or bust up on the porch. One beautiful bitch died in my arms as we tried to get her to a vet. The last two we sold to a local farmer who kept them tied up in a barren yard. Made me sick. Now I have a no livestock rule.
Kids and dogs go together in the country, I guess, or various kinds of working dogs. I prefer to see the animals in their natural habitat, now, and it is easier without a dog. Most dogs I meet on a trail are soft, pet dogs that just want to play. They can be fun to meet, but every so often one will take a run at me, and I have to prepare to meet him. Usually just a bluff, and I've never had to defend myself, other than pushing him off, but the pitiable thing is the poor owner running up behind crying, "He's ok! Not vicious! He wouldn't hurt a fly!" Wouldn't hurt me, perhaps, but I am a large man, and somewhat imposing. I think most dogs know who would come out the worse in a fight. But I have seen the same act with a small child, or a small woman, and it is not so benign. For such people, a dog encounter can be an unnerving and anxious thing, often ending in tears.
gsingjane
03-07-2008, 19:26
I just wanted to add two things.
First, just because people don't give nasty looks or say rotten things about a dog on the trail, doesn't mean they appreciate seeing it there. I would hate to start a fight with anyone about anything on the trail, in addition to being pointless it would also ruin my good time, so even on the several occasions that a large dog has jumped my little daughter, I usually keep my mouth shut. It makes me scared and angry, but I usually just keep on hiking and don't "get into it" with any owners.
Second, my experience (as a dogwalker) has been that unleashed dogs will try to exert dominance over leashed dogs. For whatever reason they see being leashed as a sign of weakness and will try to make the leashed dog into the submissive one. Bad dogfights can get started and one of my friends wound up with many stitches when just this situation happened. Even if the owner has established dominance over her own dog, it doesn't mean that every other creature on the trail is necessarily safe.
No matter what anyone says here, though, people seem addicted to letting their canine friends offleash. Out of 100 dogs I see on the trail, if I see one leashed it's a surprise.
Jane in CT
No matter what anyone says here, though, people seem addicted to letting their canine friends offleash.
Yup. We have a leash ordinance in our local parks, but what you see is people hurriedly calling in their dog and putting them on leash as you approach. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. It sure doesn't obey the ordinance.
But I do understand. The dog wants to roam. The owner is bonded, and wants what the dog wants. Trouble is, the dog is not truly wild, and doesn't know the meaning of discretion, like any wild carnivore does. So the dog will do stuff for the hell of it, because he doesn't know better. Dogs are picked out of the litter before they get taught by the bitch to stay put and to approach with caution, which is what foxes, coyotes and wolves get taught in the wild.
If you encounter any wild animal, they will have a natural discretion about getting into an encounter they aren't sure about. That is why feeding and petting isn't a good idea, because it conditions the animal to disregard this natural discretion. But pet dogs, or guard dogs, are conditioned to regard "other" humans as patsies who don't defend themselves, because that is how WE are conditioned. Put on a display to a pet dog some time, and you will show what the wild animals mostly know, that pets don't: We are the apex predators, and we defend our territory. Most dogs will back off, unless they think that their pack is behind them (that's the owner).
Pet dogs running free sometimes behave as though they were grizzlies or polar bears, which are the only fearless predators on this continent. Even black bears have more discretion, and cougars are positively stealthy: they wait for a sure kill, or stay hidden. Fact is, most pets are ignorant animals, because they have never been taught the facts of life in the forest. They make very poor wild animals.
go hike the pct sobo. that is what we did... no people, great trail, and no freaking dog issues....Lulu ran free . A dogs natural pace is NOT 2 miles an hr. hello ?? having a dog on a leash for 2000 miles is ridiculious. No fun for anyone. Also, doing these trails is NOt easy on a dog... i hope you are prepared for that. they LEAD every single mile of every single day. Not you. They have to come first.. over your ego of finishing or vervor to get to town or your wish to spend 2 hrs in a pizza place while your dog languishes in the heat. I LOVE dogs, have 4 of my own and live in a state that has more dogs per capita then any other. Sadly, I don't see many good dog owners on the trails... sometimes.. but more often the dog is suffering and the hiker is a dillweed. YUCK
they LEAD every single mile of every single day. Not you.
A properly trained dog never LEADS, they FOLLOW. Unless they've been properly trained specifically to lead.
If you're dogs are leading you, then you are the issue, not the dogs. It's not fair to blame dogs for their owners being too lazy and/or ignorant to properly train them.
that is NOT what I am talking about friend. didn't think I had to explain it. I meant they lead EMOTIONALLY. the hiker doesn't come first. When the dog is tired , you stop. They can't tell ya how they are feeling so you had better be paying freaking attention. Dogs don't lie... when the are tired, scared hurt etc they will let you know and if you are a responsible dog owner you will do the right thing which is not dragging an animal up the trail. believe me I have seen it over and over and OVER again
Critterman
03-07-2008, 21:53
My ego has nothing to do with "voice control", thanks very much. My Lab understands voice and hand commands after three years of very hard work. I would not hesitate to take him on the Trail. Having said that, I respect other hikers and would not subject them to any fear they might have of seeing my dog unleashed. It's sad that my best buddy can't enjoy the same things that I do because some poor owners don't take the time and effort to train their dog to be a good citizen. He wouldn't be happy on a leash, and he wouldn't be a burden to any of you. So I guess he'll stay at home, or in the kennel, sadly. Too bad there are so many dog haters out there.
Don't confuse my concern for a dogs welfare with hating dogs. It is just the opposite.
I'll rather a well behaved dog on the trail over most hikers.
I'll rather a well behaved dog on the trail over most hikers.
I like the way you think. :D
I agree Sly. My hikes have been made really terrific by having lulu around. She is so swet, smart and cute.. had me laughing alot and was superb company. i pine for her when she doesn't come but too old now for anything but short trips
I've never seen a large, sturdy leash break when a dog runs towards something it considers more interesting than what its owner wants. I've seen plenty of supposedly-"good" dogs ignore their owners pleas, and keep on attacking a smaller dog, run after wildlife, head out into a busy road, head for the county line at a ceaseless 30-mph, etc.
The dog's peace, of mind, who cares. It's an animal, with its rights fundamentally inferior to those of humans not its owner. If it's so fragile it can't psychologically handle nonnegotiable limits on its behavior, it doesn't need to be out in public, off its owner's property.
i care about what you think just about as much as you care about what i think. my point is: with 2000+ miles available for hiking on the AT alone, if you don't like me, or my ideas, then don't hike, camp, or generally hang out near me. what's the big deal. i don't camp at shelters, or near the trail (usually, of course there have been exceptions). personally, none of my dogs would jump on any one, at any time. i'm sure that some would, and i can't speak for them, but you're going to put me in that category anyway. if you don't like my dogs, that's fine, but take it upon yourself to change your situation, and let me worry about mine.
hike your own hike, man.
The Weasel
03-09-2008, 17:42
hike your own hike, man.
That's a good point, but most hikers don't realize they are forcing a dog to hike their hike, and not the dog's. Because of a dog's loyalty, it will do anything to please its owner. And frankly, I think letting a dog "off leash" for a trail is taking huge chances with the dog's welfare, and others are entitled to say so. Equally, having a dog leashed for 2000 miles is, to me, abusive. And others are entitled to say that, too.
People can abuse their pack or sleeping bag all they want. Dogs are different.
TW
It is like driving without your seatbelt. You might go a life time without needing it but everyday somebody dies because they weren't wearing one. Leashes are the same thing for your dog. Every day dogs die because their owner had "good voice control" right up until the dog was confronted with a situation where "good voice control" didn't work. Believe it, don't believe it, I don't care but it is the truth. I have seen it far too many times. Don't let your ego kill your dog.
it's all training. im sure not all poeple who say that they have voice control over their dog actually do. personally all of my dogs, with the exception of a year old puppy that i'm just starting to hike with, are trained well enough to respond to voice commands whith out any question of what their performance will be.
all of my dogs are 70lbs plus, my ego isn't that big. i don't think they are in any danger.
the problem isn't dogs on the trail, it's up-tight closed minded thinking. differences in opinions make life interesting, it's not the end of the world because i want to hike with a dog or dogs. the trail is a place for freedom, where people can do what they want.
if you pull up into a camp site and you don't like what you see, then move on. it's really that simple.
it's all training.
True...
That's a good point, but most hikers don't realize they are forcing a dog to hike their hike, and not the dog's. Because of a dog's loyalty, it will do anything to please its owner. And frankly, I think letting a dog "off leash" for a trail is taking huge chances with the dog's welfare, and others are entitled to say so. Equally, having a dog leashed for 2000 miles is, to me, abusive. And others are entitled to say that, too.
People can abuse their pack or sleeping bag all they want. Dogs are different.
TW
i can only speak for myself, but my dogs hate being left at home. every dog sitter i've ever had has told me how miserable the dogs were while i was gone. when i take them with me, they seem pretty happy to me. but, my dogs are built for hiking. short hair, muscular. i've seen plenty of dogs on the trail that i wouldn't have taken hiking, but that's none of my business. that's that dog's owners business.
Mrs Baggins
03-09-2008, 19:19
it's all training. im sure not all poeple who say that they have voice control over their dog actually do. personally all of my dogs, with the exception of a year old puppy that i'm just starting to hike with, are trained well enough to respond to voice commands whith out any question of what their performance will be.
all of my dogs are 70lbs plus, my ego isn't that big. i don't think they are in any danger.
the problem isn't dogs on the trail, it's up-tight closed minded thinking. differences in opinions make life interesting, it's not the end of the world because i want to hike with a dog or dogs. the trail is a place for freedom, where people can do what they want.
if you pull up into a camp site and you don't like what you see, then move on. it's really that simple.
Uh.nooooo. It's NOT "that simple." If it's late in the afternoon or evening and the next good camping area is several miles away I am NOT "moving on." The shelters are not for your barking, snapping, rubbing up against everybody, defecating wherever it desires, drooling,slobbering, only cute to you dog. Parents who take babies and toddlers into theaters and nice restaurants are not welcome - they are the only ones who think the kid is cute (and yes, I'm a mom and NO I never did that). YOU are the only person who thinks your dog is cute and wonderful and well behaved. If you can keep your dog down, off to one side, never in anyone's face, never barking, never charging incoming hikers, by all means take him. If you can't do that, leave him home.
Uh.nooooo. It's NOT "that simple." If it's late in the afternoon or evening and the next good camping area is several miles away I am NOT "moving on." The shelters are not for your barking, snapping, rubbing up against everybody, defecating wherever it desires, drooling,slobbering, only cute to you dog. Parents who take babies and toddlers into theaters and nice restaurants are not welcome - they are the only ones who think the kid is cute (and yes, I'm a mom and NO I never did that). YOU are the only person who thinks your dog is cute and wonderful and well behaved. If you can keep your dog down, off to one side, never in anyone's face, never barking, never charging incoming hikers, by all means take him. If you can't do that, leave him home.
The same can be said about children. I've ran into more parents with children who could use training than I have dogs. But try telling that to a parent. :rolleyes: Don't get your panties in a wad. I love seeing kids on the trail, as well as dogs. I'm just making a point. The trail is big enough for all of us to have a good time on our hikes.
Uh.nooooo. It's NOT "that simple." If it's late in the afternoon or evening and the next good camping area is several miles away I am NOT "moving on." The shelters are not for your barking, snapping, rubbing up against everybody, defecating wherever it desires, drooling,slobbering, only cute to you dog. Parents who take babies and toddlers into theaters and nice restaurants are not welcome - they are the only ones who think the kid is cute (and yes, I'm a mom and NO I never did that). YOU are the only person who thinks your dog is cute and wonderful and well behaved. If you can keep your dog down, off to one side, never in anyone's face, never barking, never charging incoming hikers, by all means take him. If you can't do that, leave him home.
i don't camp at shelters, or many other established camp sites either for that matter. i know that some folks must have an established camp site or shelter to get a good nights sleep. for me the next available spot is never several miles away.
i take great measures not to bother other people, i just wish others would do half as much not to bother me.
The Weasel
03-09-2008, 19:51
i can only speak for myself, but my dogs hate being left at home. every dog sitter i've ever had has told me how miserable the dogs were while i was gone. when i take them with me, they seem pretty happy to me. but, my dogs are built for hiking. short hair, muscular. i've seen plenty of dogs on the trail that i wouldn't have taken hiking, but that's none of my business. that's that dog's owners business.
Gen'l----
I'm sorry, but you sound a little bit like, "Bad things only happen to others, but not me." Even the best trained dogs will make mistakes, and under provocation - which need not be aggression from others - break their training. But the real problem that I have is that people - and you're one, to my regret - aren't making a bet about their own safety, and doing something foolish or risky that will hurt them. And maybe your dog is so harmless that you're not even risking the safety of others.
But all you have to be is wrong one time. One time that your dog attacks another dog, or even a person, and it gets destroyed. One time, and your off-leash dog runs after the scent of another animal, and disappears. One time, and it walks (as happens here a lot in the West) up a trail and scares a rattler.
One time.
You don't suffer from that, not like your dog does. You'll be sad, like we all are when we lose our best little pal. You'll cry, and say, "He never did that before!" or "That snake killed him" or "I'm sorry, pall, I wish I'd thought."
And I'm sorry that your dog misses you a lot. But he didn't pick you and make you take him home; you picked him. And you have the same responsibilities to him or her as you do to a child. That doesn't include taking risks.
That's perhaps the best analogy: We have little real sympathy for the mother who says, "My little boy knew not to go in deep water," when she didn't watch him. We don't particuarly think much of the parent who leaves a child unattended for a couple of days to go hiking. And most parents will say, "If my son misses me that much when I'm gone, I'll stay home."
I mean it; I am sorry, because I'd love to walk for weeks on end with my little pal, but I love him too much to do it responsibly - every moment tethered - and I love him to much, also, to take a chance that my actions hurt others or killed him.
Sorry Goat: That man killed his dog. Certainty? Perhaps not; no one saw the decayed carcass lying in the woods. But people shouldn't play fantasy games, either, and think that Sparky just found another happy home. Sparky's gone, and it didn't have to happen.
TW
there are a bunch of crazy people out there too. you gonna tie them up or ban them from the trail. you make a mistake about the wrong person one time and bad things could happen. i trust my dogs way more than some people, but i don't freak out when i meet those folks on the trail. i change the situation by simply changing location.
You just never know sometimes what kind of trouble an unleashed dog will get itself into. Mine included.
I posted a story of rescuing my dog recently in the general non AT forum so some of you may have read it, but thought that non-donating members with hiking dogs might find it interesting.
This incident didn't happen on the AT but we were hiking a private trail through the Maine woods:
Most every day this winter we have been on this same snowmobile trail doing our daily walk of about 1 mile . I have not been using a leash this winter because at 80 lbs.+ the dog can't go far from the trail without getting bogged down in 3-4 feet of snow.
We do the leapfrog thing, the dog will sniff at tracks crossing the trail and I'll go ahead and before long the dog will come running by and take up the lead.
Over the course of our walk we cross the upstream end of a small beaver pond which has been frozen over solid for months now. Even the stream leading into it is covered with ice and snow.
As we crossed this area the dog picked up fresh Bobcat tracks and does his usual sniff test and I keep going into the woods and up a hill.
After about 5 minutes or more I stop and wait, look around and listen.
!0 minutes pass and no dog, very unusual I think and head back down to the Beaver pond.
I pick up dog tracks heading upstream and follow them with snowshoes on.
Before long, only about 40 feet from the trail, I see the tracks disappear in a hole through snow and ice and there he is hanging on by his front paws with his head above water.
He was tuckered out and hopelessly trapped in this hole through the ice and snow.
The frightened look on his face said it all, a look I had never seen.
Carefully I approached the hole and lay down on my front side with tips of snowshoes dug in.
I was able to grab him behind his front legs at the armpits and with me pulling and him helping he came out of that ice cold water . The water was about 3 feet deep where he went in but with an additional 3 feet of snow he was in a deep hole. It seems he found a thin spot where the stream channel flows.
So be careful you dog owners around frozen bodies of water ,streams,and just about everywhere else.
you just never know what kind of scent your unleashed dog will take after and what kind of trouble that might lead to.
I seldom take my dog on the AT, it may be just this particular dog but find it annoying to hike with him and looking after him.
Another potential hazard to unleashed dogs from PA/NY north on the AT is the Porcupine (http://icwdm.org/handbook/rodents/Porcupines.asp), if your dog gets into one of these, it could ruin a day or two or more for both of you, and possibly a vet bill. The Quills are barbed, painful, and don't come out easy.
I think it is harder to hike with hounds. They do seem to like to take off. We saw a guy looking for his beagle on the long trail. it was very sad . he was totally freaked out and wondering how he was gonna tell his kids. Lulu is a lab and she is older. She doesn't have the energy anymore to chase much of anything ! She just likes staying close to me. One time in oregon, on a day hike, i was throwing stick for her in a creek. it was moving pretty good but i had NO idea just how fast that water was. She went in and started having trouble get ting back to me. So, i bent down to grab her collar and before I knew it i was in the freezing high mnt water too. Yikes ! Somehow i got her out and then flung myself out on to the embankment, totally spent and sorta laughing. Thankfully it was about 65 or so and i was able to just hike out of there. But, folks are right in here, it is a chance we take. For folks on the pct or Cdt definitely be careful if you have them in the Sierras in the Rockies.But all in all.. man, i wouldn't have it any other way. Lulu rocks ! she makes the trip even better. I don't take her on the AT. it is just too much of a pain. People Do have a right to the shelters etc.or not to like her barking. hey she is a dog... she barks sometimes. So, I stay up here with her these days.
I just wish i saw more often people taking the time to get to know a dog a bit. They might find that they LIKE seeing one on the trail once in awhile..and to bend just a LITTLE in regards to slobbering or rubbing up against you. reach down there and scratch her back and just keep going.
On the other hand some peole just don't LIKE dogs or are scared of them. That is why i mostly just hike up her with her. Although, i must say , most folks are actually pretty cool with a dog on the trail.
CelesteWV
03-09-2008, 23:23
take your dog. if it's good off leash leave it off, but keep control of it. don't camp around shelters, shelter people don't like dogs. i hike with big dogs all the time. the worst dog injury that i can remember in the last 15 years has been a broken toe nail, which bleeds a whole lot more than one might think, but nothing that a little super glue won't fix.
there are a bunch of hikers out there that don't like dogs for what ever reason, and what it really boils down to is the fact that it's your hike, do what you want, and if others don't like it, well, then they don't have to hang out with you, but don't impose your dog on others who may not approve either.
This is basically how I feel, because there are just as many different kinds of dogs as there are humans. My dog for example, and I am not bragging on my dog because shes mine, but I train dogs as a serious hobby and am very serious about it, would be a more than reliable creature off a leash. She understand the difference between heal and walk and go have some fun, but otherwise knows better then to run up on strangers, even though all she wants is a pat on the head. I taught her that, and make it goes without saying in my dog training routine to not impose on strangers in any way. Most dogs aren't trained to this extent, and should be before being considered for an extensive trail hike such as on the AT.
Wise Old Owl
03-09-2008, 23:47
This forum was created for the purpose of discussing how to responsibly hike the trail with a dog. The purpose of the forum is not to debate the whole topic of dogs on the trail. If your aim is to do so, please go to The general forum or poll forum or something. Otherwise stay away from these threads.
That said, if you disagree with dogs on the trail, it is probably because of unaware or irresponsible owners. The purpose of this forum was to try to fix that. The hope is dog hikers can pass on to each other the things that make the rare, good trail dogs a good trail dog. If more trail dogs benefit from good owners, then maybe there will be less problems in the long run.
If you don't own a dog - stuff your opinion!
Justletgo- Please bring fido! Give fido some training in a local park for a few months, so the dog knows what to do.:D
the goat
03-10-2008, 00:04
Sorry Goat: That man killed his dog. Certainty? Perhaps not; no one saw the decayed carcass lying in the woods. But people shouldn't play fantasy games, either, and think that Sparky just found another happy home. Sparky's gone, and it didn't have to happen.
weasy, i guess that's as close as i'll get to you admitting that you were rather presumptive & overly dramatic. . . i'll take it.
that said, you and i should go for a long hike together . . . . you untethered of course.:D
NorthCountryWoods
03-26-2008, 14:11
This forum was created for the purpose of discussing how to responsibly hike the trail with a dog. The purpose of the forum is not to debate the whole topic of dogs on the trail. If your aim is to do so, please go to The general forum or poll forum or something. Otherwise stay away from these threads.
That said, if you disagree with dogs on the trail, it is probably because of unaware or irresponsible owners. The purpose of this forum was to try to fix that. The hope is dog hikers can pass on to each other the things that make the rare, good trail dogs a good trail dog. If more trail dogs benefit from good owners, then maybe there will be less problems in the long run.
If you don't own a dog - stuff your opinion!
Justletgo- Please bring fido! Give fido some training in a local park for a few months, so the dog knows what to do.:D
X1,000,000,000
Weasel please follow the rules of this forum. You troll this section with vigor and reply to posts with statements which are directly against the rules of this section posted here (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=16259) (just in case you didn't see it).
From Srgt Rocks post:
Notice
This forum was created for the purpose of discussing how to responsibly hike the trail with a dog. The purpose of the forum is not to debate the whole topic of dogs on the trail. If your aim is to do so, please go to The general forum or poll forum or something.
Otherwise stay away from these threads.
That said, if you disagree with dogs on the trail, it is probably because of unaware or irresponsible owners. The purpose of this forum was to try to fix that. The hope is dog hikers can pass on to each other the things that make the rare, good trail dogs a good trail dog. If more trail dogs benefit from good owners, then maybe there will be less problems in the long run.
Apparently, you have nothing more constructive to add to the conversation other than the "leave it home or IT WILL DIE!!!" rhetoric.
We all know how you feel about dogs on the trail, considering you have posted just about the same thing in no less than 15 different threads in this section, but the rules are clear.
What you're posting is NOT helpful.
Nearly Normal
03-26-2008, 15:03
My dog is a pretty big guy (88lbs) but absolutely loves hiking. He is fine off leash or on, extremely laid back, not dog aggressive, no problems as of yet except a few other dogs who weren't too friendly [and the Jack Russell puppy who spent 30 minutes humping my dog's head].
I worry more that something will happen on the trail; this guy is over half my weight by a lot, and there is not a lot of chance of me carrying him far or at all. Also, I worry about him getting overheated (not so much right now, more like in the middle of NC/Ga summers).
Thoughts/opinions/experiences?
Your kidding, right?
desdemona
03-27-2008, 01:51
IMO, most dogs have a lot more energy than I do! (of course, I speak for myself here!!) I don't think you will be carrying your dog though! If the dogs needs a break much more than you do, you are probably going a bit too fast for your own good. Stop and smell the, whatever they have out your way :)
--des
superman
03-27-2008, 07:35
IMO, most dogs have a lot more energy than I do! (of course, I speak for myself here!!) I don't think you will be carrying your dog though! If the dogs needs a break much more than you do, you are probably going a bit too fast for your own good. Stop and smell the, whatever they have out your way :)
--des
I generally agree with you. Winter and I usually hiked about 15 miles a day. At lunch or when we stopped for the night she always wanted to play. Any time I picked up my pack Winter would turn back into "hiker dog." She was definately not over hiked.
I can't stress the importance of taking a dog for a long hike before going out to the AT. It's good for training, spotting any physical limitations and most importantly "if the dog wants to." Dogs are really a lot like people (only nicer). Some people and some dogs want to be your friend but they don't want to hike long distances. It's just a good idea to identify any problems before you commit to the AT. It's also good as a shake down hike for your gear and you. Winter and I hiked the Long Trail as our shake down hike for the AT. There are places on the northern part of the Long Trail that are as difficult as the Whites. We did not hike for "miles per day" and we had support for resupply, gear changes and bail out if it was needed...it wasn't.
The Weasel
03-27-2008, 08:04
North:
You've already forced one thread about dogs to be closed by calling those you disagree with "Nazis". Don't get this one closed. Nor do you have the right to tell me what I should or shouldn't say. Frankly, it's hilarious to see you accuse me - or anyone - of "trolling" when there hasn't been a post for 3 weeks here. Perhaps you've been sleeping under bridges too much lately.
My comments here have been directed to those who intend to bring dogs with them when they hike, so that they understand that there are some really serious implications for how to do so. "Responsibly" doesn't mean - as you seem to think - that a dog owner gets to do what they want, regardless of its impact on others, and that the owner can simply expect others to accept their choices of behavior.
That means there are at least four interests that a dog owner has to consider: His/her own, the dog's, others on the trail, and the trail itself (or, phrased differently, the intersts of others in the future on the trail).
- Self-interest is more than you seem to thinkg ("I want my doggy, it makes me happy.") Self-interest includes an owner's willingness to make some serious sacrifices: Not using shelters that have other people, particularly during bad weather; extra weight of gear/food carried; inability to use many trail services that don't allow dogs inside; and other things. These, and others, can be rough impediments to a good hike, particularly a multi-week or thru hike.
- Your dog's interest (particularly from things you've said) doesn't seem to be much more than "Does Sparky want to go with me?" (Duh) or "Does Sparky want to go for a walk?" (Ditto). Of course he does. That's why you love him. And many vets will say, "Yeah, sure." But most vets don't know what trail hiking is, and you have a responsiblity to make sure Sparky's does, and to give her/him full disclosure ("We're going to hike for 7 months, most days, 15-25 miles, often on rocky ground.") And weight issues for dogs are tough, too, as is adequate water (the only means for dogs to cool overheating). And leashing is a threshhold issue: As noted, I don't think an owner can be "responsible" and hike with an unleashed dog, and to do a thru that way for months is, I think, essentially abusive. I haven't heard you indicate much knowledge about the challenges of those points, other than to say, "Shut up."
- The interests of others. People bringing dogs are bringing something intrusive to others. Just because you love your dog doesn't mean others will. Being responsible means considering what you can do to prevent impositions on others, while being responsible to your dog, too. That's the "full shelter in a storm" type situation: What are you going to do then? Leave your dog in the rain? Or bring it in the shelter and make others have a dog all over their bags? Or won't you use a shelter at all? There are other situations, but how you respond to that one is emblematic of the problem: You can't just arrogantly say, "They need to accept it."
- The interest of the trail, including the future. Most wildlife managers prefer to see dogs not used on hiking trails, since they cause problems for wildlife (even just by marking, which is why most dogs pee so often). There are other such problems - fouling of water sources is one - and many are noted above; it's not responsible to say, "Ahhhh, don't mention them."
Your approach seems to be, "tell me what dog pack to buy and shut up about everything else." I'm sorry you don't like that. But I have a dog, and I hike with him, and when I do, I do a lot of things that are very different from when I hike alone. I love him, and I respect others, enough to do more than just force my will on him, others and trails. That means on many hikes I end up leaving Chase at home. But you? You need to lose the chip on your shoulder. You don't own this forum. Perhaps you'd learn something.
TW
NorthCountryWoods
03-27-2008, 08:54
North:
You've already forced one thread about dogs to be closed by calling those you disagree with "Nazis". Don't get this one closed. Nor do you have the right to tell me what I should or shouldn't say. Frankly, it's hilarious to see you accuse me - or anyone - of "trolling" when there hasn't been a post for 3 weeks here. Perhaps you've been sleeping under bridges too much lately.
My comments here have been directed to those who intend to bring dogs with them when they hike, so that they understand that there are some really serious implications for how to do so. "Responsibly" doesn't mean - as you seem to think - that a dog owner gets to do what they want, regardless of its impact on others, and that the owner can simply expect others to accept their choices of behavior.
That means there are at least four interests that a dog owner has to consider: His/her own, the dog's, others on the trail, and the trail itself (or, phrased differently, the intersts of others in the future on the trail).
- Self-interest is more than you seem to thinkg ("I want my doggy, it makes me happy.") Self-interest includes an owner's willingness to make some serious sacrifices: Not using shelters that have other people, particularly during bad weather; extra weight of gear/food carried; inability to use many trail services that don't allow dogs inside; and other things. These, and others, can be rough impediments to a good hike, particularly a multi-week or thru hike.
- Your dog's interest (particularly from things you've said) doesn't seem to be much more than "Does Sparky want to go with me?" (Duh) or "Does Sparky want to go for a walk?" (Ditto). Of course he does. That's why you love him. And many vets will say, "Yeah, sure." But most vets don't know what trail hiking is, and you have a responsiblity to make sure Sparky's does, and to give her/him full disclosure ("We're going to hike for 7 months, most days, 15-25 miles, often on rocky ground.") And weight issues for dogs are tough, too, as is adequate water (the only means for dogs to cool overheating). And leashing is a threshhold issue: As noted, I don't think an owner can be "responsible" and hike with an unleashed dog, and to do a thru that way for months is, I think, essentially abusive. I haven't heard you indicate much knowledge about the challenges of those points, other than to say, "Shut up."
- The interests of others. People bringing dogs are bringing something intrusive to others. Just because you love your dog doesn't mean others will. Being responsible means considering what you can do to prevent impositions on others, while being responsible to your dog, too. That's the "full shelter in a storm" type situation: What are you going to do then? Leave your dog in the rain? Or bring it in the shelter and make others have a dog all over their bags? Or won't you use a shelter at all? There are other situations, but how you respond to that one is emblematic of the problem: You can't just arrogantly say, "They need to accept it."
- The interest of the trail, including the future. Most wildlife managers prefer to see dogs not used on hiking trails, since they cause problems for wildlife (even just by marking, which is why most dogs pee so often). There are other such problems - fouling of water sources is one - and many are noted above; it's not responsible to say, "Ahhhh, don't mention them."
Your approach seems to be, "tell me what dog pack to buy and shut up about everything else." I'm sorry you don't like that. But I have a dog, and I hike with him, and when I do, I do a lot of things that are very different from when I hike alone. I love him, and I respect others, enough to do more than just force my will on him, others and trails. That means on many hikes I end up leaving Chase at home. But you? You need to lose the chip on your shoulder. You don't own this forum. Perhaps you'd learn something.
TW
I get it.....WE have to follow the rules of the forum/trail/world, but YOU don't?
Your continued disregard of the rules is the only thing arrogant around here. I don't own the forum, but I don't have to own it to ask you to follow the rules of the administrators.
and I'm not the one making the rules,...I'm pointing them out TO YOU!
In the 15 threads you've posted on in this forum....how many times have you offered anything other than "leave your dog home" suggestion?
Do you have another suggestion? Please post a link to it.
If not, your stance is directly in violation of the rules of this section...and while you've tried to word it many different ways, it doesn't change.
You don't like other peoples dogs on the trail and continue to encourage people to leave them home. Per Srgt Rock....this is not the place for that.
Take it up with him. :D
superman
03-27-2008, 09:23
Just out of curiosity...how many other people on this thread have hiked the AT with there dog?
the goat
03-27-2008, 09:24
weasel-
enough already with the "leave your dog at home" rhetoric. not only are you beating a dead horse, but you're violating the rules of this forum.
as you well know, this area exists to constructively discuss long distance hiking with a dog. it is NOT an area to discuss whether or not dogs should be on the trail.
if you have a problem abiding by the guidelines of this forum, please let me know.
thanks,
the goat
superman
03-27-2008, 09:51
I don't know if a larger dog has an advantage over a smaller dog in hiking the AT. Big and small have hiked it. I knew people who were better hikers than I was and left the trail for all kinds of reasons. It's really an individual thing for both dogs and people. In "99”, I thought Winter and I were done when we started coming to ladders. A little dog you can just pick up and carry up but not so with a big dog. We tried different things but what worked was that Winter learned to climb ladders. When we were hiking the AT and came to that ladder just past rt 4 in VT the people I was hiking with were blown away how easy Winter went up that log ladder. For a larger dog it needs to figure some of the obstacles out for it's self. There were times that I looked at climbs and wondered how I was going to get Winter up and the next thing I knew she was waiting for me on top.
NorthCountryWoods
03-27-2008, 10:19
Done just about everything from the bottom of Shenandoah to Baxter SP is sections, but almost always with someones dog(s) in the group. Cept where they're not allowed, of course.
I follow the rules. ;)
superman
03-27-2008, 10:45
Done just about everything from the bottom of Shenandoah to Baxter SP is sections, but almost always with someones dog(s) in the group. Cept where they're not allowed, of course.
I follow the rules. ;)
I'd like there to be a by-pass trail to go around the Smokies. I did not have a good experience with the kennel that took Winter while I hiked to Mountain Momma's. To me it doesn't matter much if you call it a thru hike or just a long walk with your best friend.
If you don't have any one meeting you at Katahdin it's not usually a problem. By the time you get to Able bridge you've made enough friends to have a friend watch your dog, out of Baxter, while you summit.
NorthCountryWoods
03-27-2008, 11:26
If you don't have any one meeting you at Katahdin it's not usually a problem. By the time you get to Able bridge you've made enough friends to have a friend watch your dog, out of Baxter, while you summit.
We were late in the season anyway, so we didn't even bother, but you're right.
Baxter is the last stretch of AT that I really want to do anyway.
Junior is getting too old for the ups and downs. He may have a couple of little buddies soon...and maybe I'll start letting all three run around unleashed and start sleeping in shelters, then I can really upset you-know-who.
superman
03-27-2008, 11:47
We were late in the season anyway, so we didn't even bother, but you're right.
Baxter is the last stretch of AT that I really want to do anyway.
Junior is getting too old for the ups and downs. He may have a couple of little buddies soon...and maybe I'll start letting all three run around unleashed and start sleeping in shelters, then I can really upset you-know-who.
LOL, now don't be like that. Take a deep breath and let it go.
The day I summited was overcast on the bottom and as I climbed I lost visibility to about 10'. It started spritzing as I neared the top. The wind was just starting to gust. I took some pictures and ate a snack on top. As I started down the wet spritz was turning mixed with snow. I started up the mountain at 11:30 AM and signed off the mountain at 4:30PM. Those who didn't go up that day had to wait a week or two. As I flew along the trail in Maine I was damn ready for my hike to end but as I stood there at the bottom of Katahdin I was sorry that it was over.
Wise Old Owl
03-27-2008, 15:51
Weasel,
you have made your point over & over again. I am beginning to think you have a long manifesto, where you cut & paste from. Everything in this thread is almost duplicate to the previous closed one. You have beaten a dead horse so badly it cannot be buried.
You have violated the rules posted by the adminstration of this forum.
You did not read the opening of the thread question.
Your writings are clearly out of place here.
Why do you even think you are being helpful & supportive?
Don't even answer this post - Just go away.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg275/MarkSwarbrick/20070101_pointless_incessant_barkin.png
So basically...
Take your dog. Leave your weasel. :-?
Got it. :banana
Just out of curiosity...how many other people on this thread have hiked the AT with there dog?
ga to pa with mr. bud in 2000. i met you somewhere in va. countless other miles with mr. bud and 2 other dogs since then but no thru.
The Weasel
03-27-2008, 22:50
Take it up with him. :D
Give it a rest, North. You're gonna scare your puppy. As for Rock, yeah, I'll take it up with him, anytime, anyplace. If that wuss wants to take just ONE step over my door...just ONE...well, let him try it! Two steps! Even three! And when he does, I'll be there, in his face, every second: "Ern? You want MGD? Or...Rock? Or The Macallan this time"
Take your meds, North. The downers, this time.
TW
The Weasel
03-27-2008, 22:51
weasel-
enough already with the "leave your dog at home" rhetoric. not only are you beating a dead horse, but you're violating the rules of this forum.
as you well know, this area exists to constructively discuss long distance hiking with a dog. it is NOT an area to discuss whether or not dogs should be on the trail.
if you have a problem abiding by the guidelines of this forum, please let me know.
thanks,
the goat
Hey Goat? If you don't want to look like North's little stooge, why don't you actually read my post, huh? It made some real suggestions to a pit bull owner about training needed. Or don't you think you have to respond to the thread topic? If all you want to do is sing Amen for North, go out your front door. If not, post something useful here. I did.
TW
Alligator
03-27-2008, 23:33
Hey Goat? If you don't want to look like North's little stooge, why don't you actually read my post, huh? It made some real suggestions to a pit bull owner about training needed. Or don't you think you have to respond to the thread topic? If all you want to do is sing Amen for North, go out your front door. If not, post something useful here. I did.
TWThe Goat is the moderator for this forum, it would behoove you to pay attention to his post.
NorthCountryWoods
03-28-2008, 05:49
Give it a rest, North. You're gonna scare your puppy. As for Rock, yeah, I'll take it up with him, anytime, anyplace. If that wuss wants to take just ONE step over my door...just ONE...well, let him try it! Two steps! Even three! And when he does, I'll be there, in his face, every second: "Ern? You want MGD? Or...Rock? Or The Macallan this time"
Take your meds, North. The downers, this time.
TW
:confused:
superman
03-28-2008, 07:54
ga to pa with mr. bud in 2000. i met you somewhere in va. countless other miles with mr. bud and 2 other dogs since then but no thru.
LOL, almost everything happened in VA. I thought I'd met you. Life is good.
superman
03-28-2008, 09:24
Maybe something in this might be of help. It sort of turned into a ramble.
When I found Winter in the middle of the road when she was 5 weeks old I did not intend to have another dog at that time. I had things to do and they didn't include "dog sitting." I'd had many dogs previously that I would not have wanted to hike, canoe or travel with. Not that they were bad dogs but they just weren't suited for those activities.
Hiking the At was left over old business that I wanted to get done. I almost hiked it in “68” when I came home from Vietnam but I married my ex-wife instead. My sons had moved away and were on there own. I found that I had some money, the time, the desire and I was free of my responsibilities. Since no one was going to come and claim the dog my son named her Winter. When you name a dog it's yours so I thought about what I needed Winter to be in order to hike the AT. She house trained so fast it's hard to remember when she wasn't. I used to go to the same restaurant for breakfast every weekend and I'd save my bacon for Winter, who was waiting in my car. She learned all the usual commands (sit, stay, come, lie down, jump, roll over, heel, speak) on the lawn of the restaurant. It got to be a ritual the people in the restaurant filled the windows to watch. When I was training Winter the people who came out made a point of coming over and shaking Winter's paw. Winter was such a ham meeting people it occurred to me that socialization would be a big issue while hiking. So I began walking Winter through down town Brattleboro, VT which has more strange people than most places. Winter and I also sat on a bank near my house that over looked a field and just watched the various animals, fox, raccoon, deer, bear, birds and what ever else used that field. The next thing was to do some day hikes, then over night hikes and finally we started hiking the Long Trail. I didn't intend to hike the whole thing but it just worked out that way. I used to read Wing Foot's site and knew the list of evils to avoid with a dog. We stayed in a shelter alone right in the beginning and my sinuses locked right up. Winter and I tented from then on.
The people we met liked Winter too much. They wanted to feed her stuff she shouldn’t have. The young guys wanted to play too rough. I learned fast to watch out for Winter with friendly hikers for Winter’s sake. We never met an unfriendly hiker but a lot of people just don’t know how to behave with a dog. When we hike, so many people expect Winter to come to them and socialize, some would even kneel down, and Winter would just walk by. When Winter is hiking, she’s hiking. I didn’t teach her that…she just did it.
To teach her to drink on command I used hiking sticks. Every time we came to a non-people water source I blocked Winter with my sticks and said stay. I’d wait a minute and say “drink” as I took the sticks away. It didn’t take long and Winter would wait for me to say “drink.” This works great but a caution is that if you hike with someone’s dog who just runs up and starts drinking; Winter figured it was ok to drink. When we resumed hiking alone she resumed waiting to drink. All this was to train her to not drink from human sources. She gave me enough time to whip out her bowl and get her water.
It is not uncommon for dogs to stop eating on a long hike. I do the same thing only not as much as Winter. I carried sardines, tuna fish, beef jerky and other treats to get her eating. She and I shared the treats.
Hiking in the rain is not a big deal except that Winter doesn’t like the rain in her eyes. I always carried an extra garbage bag that I used to make a hood. It was held in place by her pack.
I did not teach Winter how to get through the cow styles. She just looked at them and figured them out for her self. In addition, she would actually demonstrate how to do it with other dogs that we hiked with. Winter first started climbing ladders on the Long Trail. The log ladders are easy the narrow metal ladders take some work. I took her pack off for the ladders that I figured would be difficult. The only ladder she couldn’t climb over was the first fence going north from Troutsdale. It had two rungs missing. I just had to lift her passed the gap.
Staying warm is easy with a dog. When it was hot Winter wanted her own space. When it was cold she snuggled right up to me. I use a rectangular down sleeping bag. I just open it up and put it over both of us and in no time there is warm steam heat. Even on the cold, wet days we slept warm and comfy.
There used to be a percentage of the dogs weight to approximate how much a dog could carry in it’s pack. Unfortunately I forgot the percentage. Winter doesn’t carry a pack any more. Her pack is hung on a chair in the dining room near her bed. If anyone touches her pack she’s up and ready to hike…but there won’t be any more of that.
the goat
03-28-2008, 09:43
Hey Goat? If you don't want to look like North's little stooge, why don't you actually read my post, huh? It made some real suggestions to a pit bull owner about training needed. Or don't you think you have to respond to the thread topic? If all you want to do is sing Amen for North, go out your front door. If not, post something useful here. I did.
TW
weasy, as the moderator of this forum, i'm pretty well versed in the guidelines, thanks. if you would like your "contributions" to this area to continue, you'll do well to heed my advice.
trouthunter
07-20-2008, 00:38
Hi everyone, I'm new here. Section hiker, Future thru hiker, and long time pristine area backpacker/ camper. Many solos with my dog, Boo.
Boo is a male American Akita, about 120 lbs. I keep him off main trails, he mostly goes on my "off trail" fishing treks. I don't think you could have a dog too big in bear country! My dog is well trained, and I don't mean just a few commands. He is well behaved, does not approach people, and is just a big teddy bear, unless you are up to no good. (Akitas are protective but not mean spirited)
But like I said we don't go on main trails because his size makes some hikers nervous and I just try to be considerate of them.
I'm glad I found this forum
Wise Old Owl
07-23-2008, 17:06
Hi Trouthunter,
Welcome to WB.
SunnyWalker
07-24-2008, 22:57
Jones: you are buying into the "mind theory" of dog ownership. What, did your dog tell you he had a great time? Did your dog tell you every day, "Hey, let's go, this is so much fun! Wow that is great!" Hey, your dog is not a human. It is a dog. I for one feel real bad for many of the dogs I see on the trail. I don't think they are all necessarily having a good time. They are surviving, but having a good time? I don't know about that.
ct1974rlw
07-25-2008, 08:33
I will sometimes bring my German Shepherds. I have a black belgian (female) and a black and sable West German (male). My female is small-only about 60lbs but my male is big, about 120lbs. Most people I run into are nervous around my male, but he is very wimpy. If something moves in the woods at night, he's in my sleeping bag faster than I can blink. My female people will walk right up to her and want to goochy coo her-not a good thing as she is very protective. While she won't bite persay-she will give a warning growl and show her teeth. If she hears something at night in the woods, she is ready to take it on. As you can see, there is a big difference in their demeanor. So depends on where I go on the AT will depend on which one of my dogs I will bring-if I do. But regardless, there is a few rules I follow when my dogs and I are hiking together-to keep my dogs safe (they are MY responsibility and if I care about them, there must be rules) and respect that not everyone is happy to see my dogs. Not everyone is a dog person.
But also, I am a female and I like having my dogs with me when I am back country. I feel a little bit safer.
1. I never, EVER, stay at shelters that others are occupying. It's not a good thing as there is food and other things that my dogs can get into. I also don't want strangers feeding my dogs either. My female has special diet needs and is highly allergic to chicken. The trail is not a place I want to have a vet emergency. I also can not predict people's reaction to my dogs either and try to avoid a encounter that will make my dogs and/or the people around them uncomfortable. So I find it best to just set up camp far away from people.
2. My dogs are ALWAYS required to be leashed. They are well trained off leash but for their safety and those around they must be leashed. Further, besides people, you never know what they might encounter-if my female saw a bear-I know she would try to take it on in protecting me. Bear vrs. dog-no matter how good my dog is, I'm betting the bear will win. To allow my dog encounter a situation that I could have controlled by keeping her safe on the leash and if she gets injured-that would be irresponsible of me.
3. When walking on the trail and when we encounter people, I always stop and make my dog go into the down position while we wait for people to pass. I then crouch down and hold on the harness as well as the leash. This does several things. 1. People feel better about passing me on a tight pass with my dog in down position. 2. Especially with my female (who is dominant) it tells her she is not in charge. If she is not in charge, she can not challenge or recieve anyone or another dog as a challenge-resulting in better trail behavior.
4. I do not allow people to pet my dog. The reason being is that I do not want them expecting to be petted everytime we encounter people. However, when people ask if they can pet them-instead I encourage them to verbally praise her-which she has come to love-as long as she is behaving. Bad behavior never gets praise.
5. I always keep my dogs close to me. When we are hiking, I do not visit any place that my dog needs to be tied up while I go inside. Please don't get me wrong-my dogs are extremely well behaved-but never ever take for granted that your dog, given the right situation, can react unpredictably. How many times have you ever heard a dog owner say in complete disbelief "Oh my, Fido never has acted this way before!!!" Well Fido is a pact animal and will behave as such-which means regardless of the many, many, many years Fido has had outstanding behavior-given the perfect situation-Fido can become unpredictable.
6. Pay close attention to your dogs needs. If he is hot, make him cool down by pouring water on him from a stream. Cool mountain water is very good at this. Keep an eye on his paws. Your local feed store will carry excellant over the counter meds to protect his paws and for wound care. I suggest you carry these for him-just in case. Dogs can take many of the same drugs that people can-famaliarize yourself with OC drugs that your dog can have in your first aid kit. Tackle even small cuts and abrasions immediately. I find that when we are laying down in the tent and settling down at night-this is an excellant time to check him over throughly as he is tired anyhow. My male loves this and most often will fall asleep while I am checking him over.
7. Keep a copy of their vaccinations on you and make sure they are up to date. Do NOT skimp on their vaccinations by getting the bare min.
8. Make sure their collar or harness is adequetely tagged with identification. I like the ones that bolt on their collar or harness as they are less likely to get it snagged on something. But for extra security-I spent the whopping 15.00 to get them microchipped as well.
Hope this helps!
Wise Old Owl
08-02-2008, 21:54
Weasel covered it, I'll just add my own opinions, having hiked/walked/ran with my own lab for over 7yrs & thousands of miles.
It's not a question of size or weight, it's control. You must be in control of your dog at all times. If the rules say animals must be leashed, then use a leash. You know your dog better than anyone, but other hikers on the trail no nothing about him. The fact he "loves hiking, is fine on or off the leash and laid back" means nothing to anyone else except you. I take the assumption that, any dog on the trail, including mine, is a nuisance, unwelcome and annoying to other hikers, unless told otherwise. I keep him leashed and away from others. I have had many, many experiences with hikers and dogs on the trail, good and bad, and have found common courtesy and respect go a long way. Good luck and good hiking.
Actually, I disagree with Weasel & agree with Tazie! Weasel has been on this soapbox before. I suspect you have a good working relationship with your dog. I carry a long range Tx transmitter & Sound / shock collar as a last resort. I carry a high pitched metal dog whistle & long pieces of slim jim ( I can't stand slim jim - it tastes like **** and you can live on it.) but my dog loves it. When we are off leash I will call him with the approach of anyone and reward him for "come" on command. If he does get too far I blow the whistle and he comes right back and gets a slim jim. I am not worried about children on the trail as this dog will go down, on down as a child approach. My biggest issue is horses, and when meeting others on horseback I just lucked out as the riders put me at ease as I explained I was training Rugby for different animals and asked permission to approach. They two have the shock collars, but hardly ever use them as it is a teaching tool for juvenile large dogs. I wish you the best and hike your own hike, (stay out of the shelters)
oldfivetango
08-03-2008, 08:34
If you plan on using shelters and campsites, your dog is a liability. The AT is used by folks of all ages. That includes children. In general, I don't look forward to encounters with large, unleashed dogs on the trail. My reaction to large, unleashed dogs ranges from annoyance to fear. Leashed, well-behaved dogs are less of an issue -- but can still be a bother in shelters and at campsites.
A few months ago there was a thread here on WB about a fatal shooting on a trail -- not the AT. Without rehashing that ugly business I'd simply point out that the trigger event for that shooting were two unleashed dogs owned by a fellow camping in the woods. An armed hiker was surprised by the dogs and started shooting. The dogs' owner ran after them, and he ended up dead. The shooter is in jail.
I dont know if the shooter is out of jail yet or not but at least
he is alive after the hobo threatened to kill him for shooting the
dog that was attacking him.
Also,the jury was not made privy to the fact that the deceased had
a history of violence and a stalking offense;otherwise there may have
been a much different outcome.
But I must concur that unleashed,large,agressive dogs were the
catalyst for the tragedy and I would not hesitate to defend myself
from the dog or its owner if threatened.
Oldfivetango
Plodderman
08-03-2008, 16:58
Have no problems with dogs on the trail but I have not ran into any that misbehaved. Most of them have been fine around the shelter and listened to the commands of the owner.
I do not hike with dogs as I would not want the hassle but they are fine with me, no matter the size.
oldfivetango
08-03-2008, 20:16
This is a thread about hiking with dogs-right?
Man am I a dog lover-I have had them for over
50 years....never been dogless in that amount of time.
Truthfully,have only had about 4 in that time that would be
classified as special.
That said,I would never ever want to vacation with one or
take one on a hike for that matter.
I would like to hear from hikers that do and just what their
rationale is for hiking with Fido or Spot or whatever.
That asking too much?
Oldfivetango
I would like to hear from hikers that do and just what their
rationale is for hiking with Fido or Spot or whatever.
That asking too much?
Oldfivetango
I love spending time with my dogs, and they enjoy being on the trail. It's a win-win situation.
J---
Instead, people smile, pat your dog, and wish you were elsewhere.
TW
It's funny, I think the same think....only I wished it was the person that stayed home.
To each their own.
I love spending time with my dogs, and they enjoy being on the trail. It's a win-win situation.
Amen! I never could understand "dog-lovers" who left they dogs behind while they went out to have all of the fun. I spend to much time away from my pups while I'm at work, to not take them with me everywhere I go when I get off. Sure it takes extra planning and patience and means that I can't go to some places, but at least they are with me!
middle to middle
09-23-2008, 02:29
Dogs running loose in the woods run in packs and chase deer. Among other things they revert to their wolf heritage. Whenever I hear and encounter something dogs are doing in a pack it is not good. Keep them home.
Two Speed
09-23-2008, 05:52
middle to middle, I'm a little confused how you're equating the behavior of wild dog packs with trail dogs.
Also, please take a look at the sticky (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=16259) at the top of this forum. There are additional rules here over and above those on the rest of the site. If you have questions about that please shoot me a PM.
Pedaling Fool
09-23-2008, 09:56
Deer need the exercise.
I am interested in finding a local renta-guard dogs outfit in western CT. I would like to conduct a little experiment when Minnesota Smith comes through next year.
Two Speed
09-23-2008, 10:23
Deer need the exercise.
I am interested in finding a local renta-guard dogs outfit in western CT. I would like to conduct a little experiment when Minnesota Smith comes through next year.Guys, that's just wrong.
Funny, but still wrong.
Guys, that's just wrong.
Funny, but still wrong.
I would keep the dog on the leash... maybe... I just want to see if dogs really do react differently to him...
Two Speed
09-23-2008, 10:28
Well, Tin Man, in that particular case you'd be acting on your own, so I don't see an issue that I need to get involved with.
Bearing in mind that I'm not egging you on or advocating conducting this experiment, I would bet the answer would be "yes, they will react differently."
wrongway_08
09-23-2008, 10:45
Amen! I never could understand "dog-lovers" who left they dogs behind while they went out to have all of the fun. I spend to much time away from my pups while I'm at work, to not take them with me everywhere I go when I get off. Sure it takes extra planning and patience and means that I can't go to some places, but at least they are with me!
Right on! I am guessing the people who say "leave them at home" and "why would you want to bring them with you" will make great parents some day :rolleyes:.
They are part of the family and love being out with the family. It doesnt take a degree to figure this out.
My dogs enjoy different aspects of the outdoors, Hudson is more inclined to get wet and play in the water, Erwin is more of a chillin' dog, likes to hang out around camp but they both would rather be out doors then stuck in the backyard or sleeping around the house.
Well, Tin Man, in that particular case you'd be acting on your own, so I don't see an issue that I need to get involved with.
Bearing in mind that I'm not egging you on or advocating conducting this experiment, I would bet the answer would be "yes, they will react differently."
I suspect the dogs would act differently in his presence based on what we have been told so far. The experiment would be to find out why, so we can figure out a way to change the behavior and protect the dogs.
Right on! I am guessing the people who say "leave them at home" and "why would you want to bring them with you" will make great parents some day :rolleyes:.
They are part of the family and love being out with the family. It doesnt take a degree to figure this out.
HAHA, no joke. I refer to them as "fair weather dog owners.." You can read between the lines.
I suspect the dogs would act differently in his presence based on what we have been told so far. The experiment would be to find out why, so we can figure out a way to change the behavior and protect the dogs.
HAHA... I can never trust anyone that my dogs don't like, they are a scary judge of Character... The puppy sixth sense if you will.:D
I am an advocate for dogs on leashes. I grew up with dogs of all kinds but I don't have any of my own. Big dogs scare me. My sister has been attacked by dogs twice, requiring stitches on her face the one time. I am very wary of dogs that I am not familiar with.
I don't mind small dogs at all, even if they are a little aggressive, because I know that I can boot them hard enough to end any attack and the injury they can inflict is proportionally less than that of a large dog.
I do not trust large dogs that I am not extremely familiar with... they scare me, especially if they are not under their master's direct control with a leash. And I am not talking about one of the stretchy 25' leashes that give the owners no control. If I saw a large dog running at me, aggressively growling, I would have no problem shooting or stabbing it to death, even if the owner is in sight.
The bottom line is that the owner needs to keep his/her dog under control, and if he/she cannot or will not, don't be surprised if the problem is dealt with in a way you don't like.:mad:
cowboy nichols
09-23-2008, 12:13
I've hiked all my life with a dog as a companion and for protection, (lots of Years) I don't stay in shelters and I have always kept my dogs on leash for the dogs protection. Never have had a problem with other people except a couple of drunks once. I will continue to hike with my best friend and stay away from people, some of which should be on leash.
Two Speed
09-23-2008, 12:27
Don't worry. That little voice will get drowned out soon enough. :cool:
mtnkngxt
09-23-2008, 12:43
I've hiked with my great dane before. No one seemed to care. She stayed on her leash and actually we let a little girl ride her part of the way. Girl weighed about 30 pounds great dane weighs 290 and on hind legs stands about 7'2