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generoll
03-04-2008, 14:35
Does anyone know if there is an official park policy regarding off trail hiking? I'm trying to plan a loop hike for later this month and the trails don't quite line up the way I'd like, but it looks like a fairly short bushwhack would do the trick for me.

Sly
03-04-2008, 14:39
Just tell them you're lost.

Jack Tarlin
03-04-2008, 14:40
I just looked at the official website (run by the National park Service) for the Smokies. In the "backcountry use" section there is extensive commentary on where one can CAMP but I saw nothing that prohibits anyone from hiking off of established Trails.......as long as you're not over-nighting. Just to be sure, tho, you might want to call the Park office before your trip.

max patch
03-04-2008, 14:50
I don't know what the answer is, but when you consider that

(a) you need a permit that shows where you will spend each night to overnight hike, and
(b) you have to stay at designated campsites, and
(c) there are a lot of visitors there who arn't really hikers,

I bet I can guess what the answer is going to be when you call em.

Tennessee Viking
03-04-2008, 14:50
The Smokies are part of the South Beyond 6000 challenge. There are a couple peaks where trails don't lead to the top peaks.

Contact the Smokies offices about bushwhacking policies. Because they might restrict certain areas.

Lone Wolf
03-04-2008, 14:52
hogs and bears do a heluva lot more damage than a short bushwhack will ever do. go for it

bulldog49
03-04-2008, 14:58
It is permissable to bushwack in the park. But you are required to camp only in designated campsites or shelters.

generoll
03-04-2008, 18:05
ok, got it. sometimes the answer you get depends on who you ask, but i don't recall reading anywhere that you are required to hike only on the designated trails. I know about the camping regs, but that won't be an issue.

hobojoe
03-04-2008, 18:10
I met a fellow in 04 "Restless" he was doing some crazy smokies bushwacking hike as far as I can remember. He seemed legit.

bredler
03-04-2008, 18:26
Better to beg forgiveness than ask permission.

take-a-knee
03-04-2008, 18:28
Better to beg forgiveness than ask permission.

Who would know unless you tell them?

generoll
03-04-2008, 19:54
Who would know unless you tell them?

without adding up the exact mileage I'd say that the campsites I'm looking at (#53 and #53) are about 6 miles apart with a short bushwhack down Bee Tree Ridge or perhaps twice that on numbered trails. Sometimes when I apply for a permit by phone I've been asked my route, especially if it seems overly ambitious. If I do this loop it will include a bit of the AT and I will need to request reservations for the shelters. So basically they'll ask and I'll tell them.

valleyfire
03-08-2008, 14:57
Hey generoll where is Bee Tree Ridge exactly? I found #53 on the map but couldn't find that name.

weary
03-08-2008, 15:13
I just looked at the official website (run by the National park Service) for the Smokies. In the "backcountry use" section there is extensive commentary on where one can CAMP but I saw nothing that prohibits anyone from hiking off of established Trails.......as long as you're not over-nighting. Just to be sure, tho, you might want to call the Park office before your trip.
While exploring the Smokies in 1993, I ran across a couple of mapped trails so overgrown that they required bushwhacking.

Weary

dessertrat
03-08-2008, 15:25
Just make sure you have a good map and compass and know how to use them.

generoll
03-08-2008, 15:29
Hey generoll where is Bee Tree Ridge exactly? I found #53 on the map but couldn't find that name.

Look for the Thomas Divide Trail. Between the point where it ends at 441 and where it intersects Kanati Fork Trail there's a bend in the trail at a ridge top. That's marked as Beetree Ridge on my map and that ridge appears to lead right to the Deep Creek Trail.

I'm still not sure exactly what I'm gonna do, but I was trying to connect some dots and that seemed like a possibility. I hiked from Clingmans Dome to Fontana in 1961, From Newfound Gap to Icewater Springs in 1970, and from Davenport Gap to Pecks Corner last December. I just have a few more blank spaces to fill in to have covered the whole AT through the Smokies.

fiddlehead
03-08-2008, 21:27
Careful, some places make for easy bushwhacking. The Smokies is NOT one of them.

I've tried, it can get very thick, steep, and wet. (ended up following a stream and the only way i could keep going was to walk in the middle of the stream, just too thick with brush/blowdowns/sticker bushes etc. )

peakbagger
03-09-2008, 10:40
Check with the Smoky Moutnain Hiking Club, they run group bushwhacks year round in the smokies. http://www.smhclub.org/

restless
03-09-2008, 10:47
Hey Gene,
Not sure if you have done your trip yet. Being from thge Smokies I have done a few bushwhacks including one up to LeConte. It isn't the easiest place but can be done. Beware of rhodo hells, but outside of that there are plenty of great opportunities.I have an old park map that actually shows all the old trails(now referred to as manways), RR grades and many of the home sites in the smokies. It is commonly referred to as the east half west half map. The Map Store in Knoxville has these for sale

generoll
03-09-2008, 11:33
I'll take a peek online and see what they have. I may just see about leaving my car at Smokemont and getting one of the kids to shuttle me to Clingmans Dome if the road is open. Probably the easiest solution. Time's getting short so I guess I better make up my mind. Good to hear from you Jim. Where are you these days? I'm thinking about trying to do one of the October work bees. You going to be anywhere around the Smokies then?

Max Power
03-13-2008, 20:32
Got official word from a top Park official and he said it is allowed. You just aren't aloud to trim/cut anything.

valleyfire
03-13-2008, 23:07
Are you allowed to leave cars at smokemont?

valleyfire
03-13-2008, 23:07
Does it cost anything?

tlbj6142
03-14-2008, 00:52
Not sure if this is where you got the idea, but in a recent backpacker (within the past 6 months) there was a route through the smokies and several other parks that each required a few miles of off-trail hiking (it was the theme of the article). I'm sure the article discussed what you can/cannot do in the Smokies.

generoll
03-14-2008, 08:19
you can leave your car at Smokemont. Just tell them that you are backpacking and they'll show you where to park. The campground is patrolled and there are rangers on duty in the office during the daytime.

As far as the idea for brushbusting, I was looking for a way to fill in a few blanks and dislike out and returns on my hikes. I always try to either do a loop or an end to end with a pickup. Looking at my map it seemed that there was an off trail option between a couple of campsites that would about cut the miles in half between campsites. I know that it's a lot easier to hike on a map then it is on the ground, but this one seemed reasonable. I may save this one for another time since I'm now leaning towards a Fires Creek/Chunky Gal/AT hike.

DesertMTB
03-14-2008, 08:30
Not sure if you have gotten your original answer yet, but I was actually studying the park regs the other day and a special-use permit is required.

In order to get a special-use permit you have to prove to them you are an expert hiker and orienteer.

Check out the NPS website under the management section.

humunuku
03-17-2008, 18:12
Hey Gene,
Not sure if you have done your trip yet. Being from thge Smokies I have done a few bushwhacks including one up to LeConte. It isn't the easiest place but can be done. Beware of rhodo hells, but outside of that there are plenty of great opportunities.I have an old park map that actually shows all the old trails(now referred to as manways), RR grades and many of the home sites in the smokies. It is commonly referred to as the east half west half map. The Map Store in Knoxville has these for sale

Check this out -- > http://www.cs.utk.edu/~dunigan/gsmnp/mrsid31.php?lat=35.55984&lon=-83.53697

Small window, but it shows all the old trails

valleyfire
03-19-2008, 21:45
damn that is an old map. What is a rhodo hell?

Hikes in Rain
03-20-2008, 12:46
damn that is an old map. What is a rhodo hell?

An area where the rhododendrums, or Mountain Laural, (rhodo) have grown so thick and intertwined so much that it's "hell" getting through them.

TIDE-HSV
04-10-2008, 19:56
I hesitated to add anything here, since it's been so long since I've done it. I've done a number of bushwhacks, mostly back in the mid-80s. At that time, you had to convince them that you were expert, knew where you were going and that you weren't likely to become a rescue risk. I've covered all the major ridges and drainages and a lot of the cross trails (my 3D topo looks like a spider web). I was trying to flesh out by hiking Hyatt Ridge in the late 80s. My wife had dislocated a shoulder skiing and we'd rented a site on the Quallah Boundary, just below the ridge. I applied for a special permit for a bushwack at Smokemont, and they told me that the ranger who was familar with that area would be in the next day. I went back and he talked out of it. One of the hurricanes which had come through since the trail was abandoned had totally blocked the ridge with blow-downs. The worst bushwhack was unintentional. I was taking the manway up from Porters Flat to Charlies Bunion, and I convinced myself somehow that the left draw was the correct one (wrong). I learned then that it IS possible to walk on top on the rhododendrons, because they grow horizontally on the steepest slopes...

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krummholz
02-01-2009, 12:22
There are a few places that are off-limits for bushwhacking in the Smokies. They include the Little Duck Hawk and Big Duck Hawk ridges near the Alum Cave Trail, and the old manway that goes up the Chimneys from the Chimneys picnic area (not from the trailhead). As peakbagger mentioned, the Smoky Mountains Hiking Club does bushwhacks. They have a longstanding tradition of going off trail. The club is older than the park.

SGT Rock
02-01-2009, 12:47
I called and talked with the backcountry permit guy in '07. You only need the permit if you are going to camp in the backcountry. If you want to just go hiking in the Backcountry he said there was no special permit needed. Hikerhead and WildmanJim and I checked out old roads and the old AT coming up from Deals Gap.

Wise Old Owl
02-01-2009, 13:30
On that note perhaps there is a explanation, I can only guess if they need to come looking for you?

Here is a great webpage on Bushwalking the SNP.
http://www.griztrax.net/hiking/RamseyProng/RamseyProng.html

I am sure you are well informed on this map
http://www.mysmokymountainvacation.com/map-park.pdf

Kanati
02-01-2009, 16:19
Does anyone know if there is an official park policy regarding off trail hiking? I'm trying to plan a loop hike for later this month and the trails don't quite line up the way I'd like, but it looks like a fairly short bushwhack would do the trick for me.

Just remember that if you get lost up there, there won't be any rescue money to come find you. All the money is going to bail out the rich cats.

krummholz
02-01-2009, 16:38
I'm thinking that the difficulty of getting into these areas will deter people who believe all they have to do is bring along a cell phone in case they get in trouble. (People who don't know how to use a USGS map, compass, and altimeter.)

Wise Old Owl
02-01-2009, 16:48
Honest Krummholz, the members have discussed this quite a lot here at WB and the ones that have been rescued in the past, there was alcohol involved. The rare dimwit with a cell phone and no map is frequently given the option to rescue themselves before the SAR comes out to find them. luckly most of these folks never leave the car.

krummholz
02-01-2009, 17:02
Thanks for your response, W.O.O. I admit to jumping into this forum without having read the discussions about SAR efforts in the Smokies. Since I now live in New England, I know that up here every year we can count on some people who go up the trails in winter w/o adequate preparation and have to be rescued. There's now a fine assessed on people who are considered to have been reckless (like people who go up Mt. Washington in bad weather, which is almost of the time in winter up there). I was hoping that such would not be the case in the Smokies. I'm curious---have there been very many rescues of people attempting serious off-trail hikes in the Smokies, or has it been more people wandering into the woods when they're drunk?

SGT Rock
02-01-2009, 17:03
Have there been very many rescues of people attempting serious off-trail hikes in the Smokies, or has it been more people wandering into the woods when they're drunk?
Actually (from the stories I have read) it is mostly people without a clue looking for shortcuts.

Wise Old Owl
02-01-2009, 17:13
The information you ask about is not posted on the internet, New Hampshire and Western SAR post their rescues and it makes a great read on Google, I have spent hours reading the stories there and have to make a connection about the Smokies, I will be happy to call the folks on Monday and ask them a few questions about past rescues if they offer up.

krummholz
02-01-2009, 17:26
Well, of course I'd be interested. But I'm assuming you're making the calls out of your own interest. I was mainly active in the Smokies in the 80s (with some trips back down since then), and I don't remember ever hearing about SAR trips. There were some famous accidental overnights that I can recall, but no one ever asked to be rescued. It was a different attitude: "I'm going into the wilds, and I'll take the consequences." And as a matter of fact, no one ever got into serious trouble!

Chappy
02-01-2009, 20:22
Not many SARs for lost hikers. Had a couple for a man who wandered onto the park on a four wheeler and disappeared (according to his family), and another for three guys kayaking during downpour, one drowned. Took a while to find him. There were a few others, but usually kids wandering off from parents. Had to bring in a few with injuries off established trails and others at waterfalls. You can guess what they were doing.