down bag care?

[shaggy2004]

I just bought a nice down sleeping bag for my fast approaching thru-hike. All my past bags have been synthetic fill, and i was wondering about how to take good care of this one, particularly, how much compression is appropriate for a down bag. The bag I own is a marmot helium. How small do you think i should try and compress it? It came with two stuff sacks, a large size, and a small size, which further confused me. Of course, I know not to store it in any thing which will compress it at all, but when i'm hiking i'd obviously like to get it as small as possible without risking damaging the down. Are compression sacks a very bad idea for a down bag?? I know it may be hard to give me a good answer without actually seeing my bag, but i'd be very interested in any input. Thanks. :)

[RedneckRye]

The larger bag, which probably looks like a huge pillow case, is for storing your bag in at home. The smaller bag is the stuff sack for carrying it in your pack. As far as compression bags, use as small a one as you can get the bag into. For complete advice on storing, carrying, cleaning, etc your down bag (or jacket) check out Western Mountaineering's website.

[The Old Fhart]

I have used an LLBean 35 degree under 2 pound down bag for several years now with no problems. I've found that in a tent it works fine for me down to 20-25 degrees depending on how I am doing physically. Compressing it as small as possible never harmed it at all. I carry it in a stuffsack lined with 2 plastic bags to make sure that it stayed dry. The problem with down bags is, if they gets wet, they are useless and heavy and take forever to dry out. Another good idea is to use a thin liner inside the bag to keep the bag cleaner longer. I made a simple tapered sack out of the thinest, lightest nylon I could find but you can also buy commercial versions as well. The nylon sack was easy to wash and dried fast and I had to wash my down bag less. I used a regular top-loading washer in the laundrymats along the A.T. with no problems but other bags with different construction might not survive as well.

[Tater]

I've heard it's not a good idea to use compression sacks because they unnaturally compact the down, resulting in reduced ability to loft. I use a regular silnylon stuff sack, and pack the bag in as tight as I can. Can still get it smaller than a football and my bag still lofts back up like new after 2 years of use.

[cburnett]

compression:

for myself I wouldn't compress it more than I need (recognizing that the small bag supplied probably is the smallest it can get). I like to let my bag be as wide as my pack (fyi: i own and use a moonbow "gearskin")

care: [search around this site I know I've found some details]

from what I remember: a) use non-liquid detergent (the liquid stuff, so i've heard gumifies somehow the down / nylon) b) use cold water c) the transfer from washing machine to dryer / spinner is most precarious because of the weight of the water logged down and the fragile nature of down baffles so: BE CAREFUL d) dry only in a top loading 'spinner' (maybe add a tennis ball or two to break up possible clumps of down) e) let hang dry to complete the process

also: there are some 'dry' chemical cleaner available

Cleaning is recommended [and adds to longevity and performance of the bag] ever sixty to eighty nights (I pulled this numbers out of the air)

[gravityman]

compression:

care: [search around this site I know I've found some details]

from what I remember: a) use non-liquid detergent (the liquid stuff, so i've heard gumifies somehow the down / nylon) b) use cold water c) the transfer from washing machine to dryer / spinner is most precarious because of the weight of the water logged down and the fragile nature of down baffles so: BE CAREFUL d) dry only in a top loading 'spinner' (maybe add a tennis ball or two to break up possible clumps of down) e) let hang dry to complete the process

also: there are some 'dry' chemical cleaner available

Cleaning is recommended [and adds to longevity and performance of the bag] ever sixty to eighty nights (I pulled this numbers out of the air)

NEVER DRYCLEAN YOUR BAG! NEVER WASH YOUR BAG IN A TOPLOADING WASHING MACHINE! NEVER USE A DETERGENT OTHER THAN SPECIAL DOWN CLEANING SOAP!

As was suggested, check out Western Mountaineering (http://www.westernmountaineering.com/productcare.htm) for more details.

[The Old Fhart]

Gravityman, no need to shout. The link that you cite for your info is for a specific make and construction of down bag and may not apply to other brands and construction. I recommend that if you have a down bag and want to clean it you read the attached tag and follow the directions for best results. Both LLBean down bags that I own clearly state on the tags that they can be dry cleaned but specify what solvents should be used. This information is clearly different from the recommendations you used. If you wash your own bag the use of mild soap is reccommended but down had been used for many hundreds of years before down specific soaps were marketed with no real problems. Any one who has been in the military and had one of the M1947 down bags probably really mistreated those bags and never used a washer or dryer yet those bags have survived for decades. What I can say about the 35 degree LLBean down bag that I have used for 15 years is that it has always been washed in a top loading washer using available detergents and dried in a regular dryer on low heat. After about 8000 miles of use it still performs like new and has it's original loft. Do I recommend that you treat your sleeping bag like I treat mine, no way. As I stated before, read the tag, use your best judgement and proceed at your own risk.

[gravityman]

I would just hate to see someone shell out $300 for a down bag and have it dry cleaned. The tag may say it is okay, but that doesn't mean it is a good idea.
Example : I have really gotten into laying tile in my house. All the manufactures say you can lay the cement board directly on old linolium and tile on top of it. All the experts in the field say this is certain disaster in a few years. So even though the manufacturer says it is okay, doesn't mean it is.

It makes sense to do the things that I said! First dryclean will strip the down of the nature oils it has to help it loft. Second, a top loading machine can tear the internal baffles, especially in todays ultralight bags (and possibly the external materials). Third, the special soap has was specifically designed to make your down keep the loft. Why save a few dollars compared to what a new bag costs.

Older, heavier bags with less fill-power down (and thus more of it) can handle more abuse. Todays new bags that rely on top quality lofting down to save the weight can not.

I do believe this called for a shout. I rely on the internet heavily for my information, and am always upset when I see poor information on these message boards.

Gravity Man

[walkon]

i recommend using a very mild detergent, such as woolite for washing of any down article. cold water delicate cycle for washing and low heat with tennis balls for drying. no matter the brand, no matter the article (jacket, comforter, sleeping bag, booties, etc...) my stuff comes out fluffy and clean and ready to get dirty again.
walkon

[Peep]

I'm glad this subject was brought up. I've been wondering what you folks think about keeping the down bag (when you're home and off the trail) in the large bag for storing or hanging it up on a line or in the closet at home. I've been told by a reputable experienced thru-hiker that it should be hung not put in the storage bag. What do you think?

Also, I almost messed up and had the bag dry-cleaned! Fortunately, when I took it to the dry cleaners they noticed it was a down bag and refused to clean it...saying it would ruin it. :datz
Peep

[gravityman]

Good Drycleaner! Personally, I think it is better to put it in the storage sack. First, it puts less stress on the seams than hanging it. Second, it protects it from sharp objects and snags.

Gravity Man


I'm glad this subject was brought up. I've been wondering what you folks think about keeping the down bag (when you're home and off the trail) in the large bag for storing or hanging it up on a line or in the closet at home. I've been told by a reputable experienced thru-hiker that it should be hung not put in the storage bag. What do you think?

Also, I almost messed up and had the bag dry-cleaned! Fortunately, when I took it to the dry cleaners they noticed it was a down bag and refused to clean it...saying it would ruin it. :datz
Peep

[The Old Fhart]

Gravityman,
What I am trying to point out is that there isn't one, and only one way, to care for a down bag. While you referenced the Western Mountaineering site that says you must use special soap, if you check with another respected outfitter at: http://www.mountainsmith.com/index1.php/faq you will find this:
"Machine Wash - Prepare your bag for washing by zipping up the zipper, closing the velcro clasp, and turn your bag inside out. Wash in a FRONT LOADING machine, with a mild detergent, and set on a cold, gentle setting. Special down wash can be purchased at your local outdoor specialty dealer, however, these products are not necessary. Make sure you use the minimum amount of cleaning agent. You may need to run two rinse cycles to ensure all the detergent is washed away from within the sleeping bag." (I added the bold)
If you check several "experts" some say that when you dry the bag you should use a tennis ball or two, or a clean pair of sneakers; others say emphatically do not add these but rather check the bag while it is drying and break up any clumps of wet down by hand. They say adding other stuff during drying could damage the internal baffles. I add nothing. The one point every one agrees on is to store a down bag at home uncompressed in a large breatheable storage bag to let it fluff. I also highly recommend using a lightweight sleeping bag liner to keep the bag clean longer. The one I made is 1.5 oz. nylon which weighs next to nothing and can be washed and dried in no time at all.
My 35 degree down bag is a under 2 pound, 800+ fill, highly compressable, high quality bag and not an old heavy down bag. My experience with that bag has shown that because of it's small size it can be washed on the gentle cycle of my high capacity top-loading home machine or in any laundrymat with no problems or strain on the bag. My 15 years of using that bag and repeatedly washing it shows that, for that particular bag, the method I use works. While I'm also sure that it is ok to follow the tags on my down bags that say dry cleaning is permitted with specific cleaning fluids, I would never do that for two very good reasons; 1) I don't want to trust my sleeping bag to some one not familiar with it and who could use the wrong cleaning fluid. 2) If the bag isn't rinsed properly there could be residue left on the bag and it could smell, iritate your skin, or make you sick. I would also not use any of the makers approved down bag cleaning services for the same reason: I want to know everything that happens to my bag and have it under my control. As to removing natural oils, all soaps are emulsifiers and cleaning agents are solvents so misusing either could cause loft problems. While I agree that special soaps might be ever so slightly better that the run-of-the-mill home detergents, I think if I were to use a special cleaner it would be Woolite. Whatever I use should be readily available because every small town doesn't have an outfitter carrying special expensive down cleaners and I'm not going to carry the stuff with me. Every motel or hostel laundrymat doesn't have a front loading washer either and when I stop I like to accomplish as much as possible with as little hassle as possible.
I'm not saying that your method will do anything wrong, quite the contrary. If you want to err, do it on the safe side. What I'm trying to point out to you is I can use a different method and not be wrong. I just don't like to follow blindly what some one says is an absolute when experience and other data show there is some room for differences of opinion.

[knightjh]

I just bought a nice down sleeping bag for my fast approaching thru-hike. All my past bags have been synthetic fill, and i was wondering about how to take good care of this one, particularly, how much compression is appropriate for a down bag. The bag I own is a marmot helium. How small do you think i should try and compress it? It came with two stuff sacks, a large size, and a small size, which further confused me. Of course, I know not to store it in any thing which will compress it at all, but when i'm hiking i'd obviously like to get it as small as possible without risking damaging the down. Are compression sacks a very bad idea for a down bag?? I know it may be hard to give me a good answer without actually seeing my bag, but i'd be very interested in any input. Thanks. :)
I don't have a Down bag but I'll give you an idea on what I do to store my 0 North Face Goliath Bag. My bag has 2 loops on the foot end. I took 2 eye screws, a piece of parachute cord and a dowel. Put one eye screw in the ceiling (used a toggle bolt) and the other one on the wall (this is in a closet) I cut knotches in the dowel put the cord on the dowel, ran it thru the eye screw on the ceiling and down to the second eye on the wall. I must say it works very well. Just my .02 cents worth

[Footslogger]

I hike the AT in 2003 with a down bag. Before my hike I always stored it in one of those huge cotton sacks. On the trail I didn't over-compress it and found that it kept it's loft and warmth throughout my hike. It did however develop a certain stench after a while. I watched a lot of hikers experiment with laundering their down bags, mostly with not so good results despite having followed the manufacturers directions. I ended up buying a spray bottle of Fabreeze and giving my bag a little spritz every now and then rather than risk talking it to a laudramat. It worked well.

Just a thought ...

[Rasty]

I would just hate to see someone shell out $300 for a down bag and have it dry cleaned. The tag may say it is okay, but that doesn't mean it is a good idea.
Example : I have really gotten into laying tile in my house. All the manufactures say you can lay the cement board directly on old linolium and tile on top of it. All the experts in the field say this is certain disaster in a few years. So even though the manufacturer says it is okay, doesn't mean it is.

It makes sense to do the things that I said! First dryclean will strip the down of the nature oils it has to help it loft. Second, a top loading machine can tear the internal baffles, especially in todays ultralight bags (and possibly the external materials). Third, the special soap has was specifically designed to make your down keep the loft. Why save a few dollars compared to what a new bag costs.

Older, heavier bags with less fill-power down (and thus more of it) can handle more abuse. Todays new bags that rely on top quality lofting down to save the weight can not.

I do believe this called for a shout. I rely on the internet heavily for my information, and am always upset when I see poor information on these message boards.

Gravity Man

Park at the visitor center. They have a habit of doing construction on this dam and blocking the road. It wouldn't be fun getting stuck on the wrong side.