View Full Version : What maps and or guide books to take?
I have heard that many people have hiked the trail without maps and that other maps are close to worthless. Is there a set of maps that are more useful then others or any recommendations? I don’t plan to use the maps except in case of an emergency or help find a town if needs be to get supplies.
Also, as far as the guide books go which are the best to take from practical standpoint and did you cut and paste out the information from them to save weight? How often did you use the guide books on the trail too?
Thanks
screwysquirrel
01-21-2004, 06:35
I've always used the ATC maps, they're good for water when you don't know how far you need to go before the next water supply. Plus "horror of horrors", some of them also have the fire roads you can take into town instead of hiking the trail and then having to hitch 9 or 12 miles back into town to get supplies. And you can also gauge the trail from the elevation tables. They really don't weight that much unless you plan to carry a whole section with you. I find them very useful but others may not. It's really up to you if you think you'll need maps and can hack the extra weight.
Dworak:
i look @ the maps & study them before i leave home...then i
take pages from the A.T.data book, & the A.T.Thru-hiker's companion on the trail (actually i make copies of them @ the smallest possible print i can read, front & back of paper, as to save space & ounces!)
i keep this trail info.in a baggie or have it laminated for protection.
see ya'll UP the trail in 2004!
Uncle Wayne
01-21-2004, 08:21
I do the same as Jaybird except I carry the maps also. I use the copies of the guide book pages to make notes on while hiking then transfer them to my journal later. I'll admit even though I carry the info and maps I still don't know where I'm at on the trail a lot of the time. I need a sign or unmistakable landmark to pinpoint where I'm at most of the time. Is it absolutely necessary for a successful section or thru hike? No but it's something my wife and I enjoy so I carry the maps, copies of the guide book pages of the section we're hiking and we look over them at breaks or meal time.
I used to try and read them to her while we where hiking until my boot caught a root and the first thing that hit the ground was my nose! My wife finds humor in my misfortunes along the trail and she really enjoyed that one. It had to be a funny sight: my pack, which ended up over my head, had my face pinned to the ground, my hat was smashed flat and my religion leaving quickly. So a lesson learned; I only read now when I'm sitting on my butt. :D
In my 6 years of sectioning I have met all types of hikers, from those that had a set schedule down to the last inch, to those that hit the trail with only a vague idea that the AT went from Maine to GA or vice-versa. My method is to take what I need from the guide books (& etc.) and put it on my own guide. I can do this as I have about 400 miles of hiking the AT and I know what info I need or don't. I really like the maps, but I can't afford the entire set, or even each section as I hit it :(
From experience: the maps are accurate, and handy. I am not so sure about the Profiles, they seem a little, , , , , , , , Imaginary, at least to me :clap
Start out with what your "Gut" tells you, and if that don't work, you can always send stuff home or have more shipped to you. The AT guides, The Data book, the Maps, Wingfoots book, etc are all well done by people who care about the AT and understand what most of us need to know, Some of the info is "Overkill" to some, but there have been times that I was glad to know that hill top was only 2 miles from the next shelter :sun
Doctari.
Bring the maps. Baltimore Jack will tell you that it's irresponsible not to bring them. Get the ATC maps. On occasion, I have also suppliment the ATC maps with other maps, such as the AMC maps of the White Mountains or Maine Mountains.
I leave the ATC Guidebooks behind. You will see many put in hiker boxes, especially in Georgia.
If doing a long distance hike, bring along sections of either Wingfoot's Handbook or the ALDHA Companion. This gives you information about resupply.
If you think the maps are bad now, you should look a maps from a couple of decades ago. But I think that if Del Doc's information gets used, future maps should be much better than recent maps.
I agree, make sure that you carry the maps. You MIGHT not need them, but if you don't it will only be because you were lucky. A responsible and self-sufficient long distance hiker always carries a map. The ATC maps are fine for the entire trail. If you are interested in side trips and other features, you might want to suppliment as Peaks said.
Also, forget the state-by-state guidebooks, as they are a total waste. But do pick up the ATC Data Book. That is a great reference, its small, and provides a ton of information. The handbook or companion are nice, but not necessary. I wouldn't want to hike without one of them, as it makes getting around towns much easier. However, you can survive without them.
Rain Man
01-21-2004, 10:29
... I only read now when I'm sitting on my butt. :D
There HAS to be a quip in there somewhere, but my religion not having left me just now, I won't try too hard to pull it out!
I'm with your wife on this one. LOL
:banana
Rain Man
01-21-2004, 11:04
I have heard that many people have hiked the trail without maps and that other maps are close to worthless. Is there a set of maps that are more useful then others or any recommendations?...
For my two cents, I think the answer depends on the hiker.
If you are a map-lover, as I am, you would leave behind food and water before you'd go with a nice map.
On the other hand, if one can't read a map anyway, or isn't a map-lover, then even a very fine, useful map would be useless weight. Same for data books.
Anyway, keep in mind that the answers to your question need to be taken with a grain of salt, becaue it depends on the hiker, like the tent v. tarp preferences.
I'm enjoying reading about the data books, because I'm learning about them now and need to know the same. So, thanks for posing the question!
Rain Man
.
How about a gps with a map database? and extra batterys!
I used the Thru-hiker's Handbook by Wingfoot with no maps and was just fine completing my thru-hike in 2003. In my mind there was no need for the maps, because all it did was make you worry about how difficult a section was by the elevation profile. Take out the pages you need from the Handbook, which has an extremely detailed data book (more than the ATC's version), and you will be just fine.
Take out the pages you need from the Handbook, which has an extremely detailed data book (more than the ATC's version), and you will be just fine.
Maybe. I am sure that Baltimore Jack will chime in here with a much more detailed response, but it boils down to this: If you do not carry maps, then you are not self sufficient.
If you are lucky enough to not get injured, not run out of water or not get really lost, then yes, the maps are pretty unnecessary. However, with a map you can see other trails, road, water sources, bail out routes, sheltered areas...
Now admitedly, this kind of information isn't all the necessary on parts of the trail. The gaming lands of PA come to mind, as you are constantly crossing roads and travel on a very narrow strip of protected land.
However, I would never venture into the White Mountains of New Hampshire without a map, no matter what time of year it is. I live in New Hampshire, and people die up there all the time, at all times of the year. These are not the biggest mountains in the world, but if you get caught above treeline in bad weather, you sure want to find your way down as soon as possible.
Also, keep in mind that if, for some reason, you required a rescue, not having maps could cost you big time. New Hampshire now evaluates each rescue that it performs, and if the hiker was deemed unprepared, then it will charge the hiker for the rescue, typically a few thousand dollars. A map and compass is considered essential gear in the Whites.
And don't confuse the maps with the profiles that go along with it. The profiles are almost useless, as how hard a climb is going to feel is much more indivitive as to how you feel on a given day, rather than how high the climb is.
So bottom line - can you hike the AT without maps? Absolutely.. many, many people have done it with no problem. However, you are taking a risk that you won't happen upon a situtation where you need one. Oh - and if you do choose not to carry the maps, do not ask to see another hiker's map. Thats up there with the ultralighters asking to use someones stove because they dont carry one, or expecting to have a space in a shelter because they don't carry a tent.
Kerosene
01-21-2004, 15:43
There are other threads on this topic, some with Baltimore Jack's considered responses:
Guide books and maps - er no? (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1255)
maps (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3089)
Maps and Packs (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2421)
My two cents: A map is fun, informative and invaluable in an emergency, but certainly not an absolute requirement to walk the Trail. While I do admit to fixating on the elevation profiles, I have to admit that some are overstated and some surprisingly understated. Many times, the condition of the footbed is more indicative of difficulty than pure elevation change. I condense the relevant pages of an AT guidebook to fit 16 pages on a double-sided sheet of paper. In the future, I'll probably cut-and-paste from the Maptech CD to simplify the process.
Jack Tarlin
01-21-2004, 20:04
As several folks have stated, my feelings on this are pretty well-known. In brief, there are all sorts of excellent reasons to ALWAYS carry a map in the backcountry, and only one good reason not to, and that's to save a few dollars or ounces.
I think there are better ways to save money, and all sorts of ways to cut down your pack weight. Where I live in New Hampshire, one cannot go a week in the summer or fall without hearing about a search-and-rescue in the woods or mountains. Almost without exception, these folks either didn't bring along a map, or didn't know how to read and use the maps they had. In so doing, they made things worse for themselves and frequently put others at risk by creating an emergency situation that was eminently preventable. Is it possible to hike on the A.T. without maps? Sure it is. Is this a particularly intelligent thing to do? No, it isn't.
Sand Crab
01-22-2004, 01:15
Looks like you've been given some good advice about carrying maps. I started my section hike with nothing (guess I was one of those non-self sufficient idiots), but picked up an ATC Data Book along the way after stealth camping in a storm and then finding that I could have reached a shelter by hiking another 1.5 miles. Next time I will also carry maps. But carry them if YOU want to not, because someone else self righteously says it's the thing to do. Some of those same people sneer at anyone who carries snake bite kits, repair kits, extra clothing, or emergency cell phones.
my previous post is some-what decieving...my 2002 hike pardner: "TeePee" DID carry maps for our section...he's a map NUT! like i said...i never used them or take them on the trail....to me, seems like they're just more trouble than they are worth....& i have to say: "AMEN, brother!" to Doctari when he talks about the profiles on some of the maps! hahahahahahahahaha!
they're almost laughable. so, therefore i dont beleive them most of the time!
just like hikers...we're all hiking...but we all do it our own, personal way!
It seems like as many "thru-hikes" as Jack has done....he'd have those maps memorized by now! hehehehehehehe! ;)
see you UP the trail in 2004!
(guess I was one of those non-self sufficient idiots)... But carry them if YOU want to not, because someone else self righteously says it's the thing to do.
Jeesh, Sand Crap, how do you really feel? Funny, I just re-read my two posts on this topic and I had trouble finding out where I was acting self-righteously. Since you brought it up, its not self-righteousness that drives me in this debate, its the safety of hikers and consideration to others.
Lets say that you are out in the woods and get into serious trouble... severly dehydrated, lost injured... what do you do without a map? Well, you depend on your fellow thru-hikers for help, that is what you do! What do I need a map for when I can just wait a while and someone will come up from behind me with some water, or have a map and help get me to safety?
And there is nothing wrong with getting help on the AT, it is a very friendly place. But depending on this kind of help, leaving critical gear at home because you know that there are other people on the trail that will bail you out if you need it, that is just rude.
It goes the same for people who don't carry a tent or a tarp. Not only is this a critical safety device (if you find yourself caught suddenly in bad weather) but it also makes you self-sufficient. Without one, you must depend on good weather, or a shelter, and possibly you have to ask people who have a tent to leave a shelter to make room for you.
Now many people have hiked the entire AT without a tent or a tarp, just like many people have hiked the entire AT without a map. What you need to decide is if you want to be a self-sufficient hiker, or you want to potentially to depend on luck and the goodwill of other hikers. A tarp and a map and a compass are reasonable gear to carry when out in the woods.
As Jack said, there are lots of good reasons to carry a map. I have yet to hear a good reason not to carry one in this discussion.
Bankrobber
01-22-2004, 10:23
I carried maps most of the way. I had no maps between Harper's Ferry, WV and Bennington, VT. Surprisingly, this is where I had my biggest days.
I advocate bringing maps for the same reason that Baltimore Jack, Chomp, and others have given. Getting lost is a possibility, and knowing possible fireroads or other emergency exit routes is important. I also advocate bringing a cell phone for possible emergencies.
Keep your maps in your pack, not your pocket. You can fall in the habit of stopping every 10 minutes to look at the profile (which can be inaccurate). Maps are especially important in the Whites. One should know how rigorous the terrain is on the profile before planning the day. Those mountains absolutely walloped me, and I am glad that I had planned on slowing down by looking at the maps.
Megabite
01-22-2004, 10:38
anyone know where i can buy the maps? any options other than the atcstore? id like to buy them online, or at least with a credit card... of course, if anyone reading wants to part with a set, or at least some of the southern maps, please do email me!
thanx
--andrew
GA -> ME 2004
Before I forget, in 2001 I carried Wingfoot's guidebook and thought it was exactly what I needed.
As for maps, I always wade into these threads when I hear folks saying it is irresponsible to hike the AT without them!
I think there's lots of places where maps are vital for safety, areas of true wilderness where if you get turned around you can REALLY get lost. When I hike the AT, I have a pack on my back with everything I need to be comfortable in the woods. I also carry a compass. If I get in trouble, usually the last thing I'll want to do is head off bushwacking. I'll use my guidebook to figure out where the nearest roadcrossing is, or wait for help on the trail.
Can you think of a situation where maps could conceivably save your life? Of course. But what are the odds of that?? I can also think of situations where staying home would save my life, or carrying a 30 pound first aid kit, or a gun, or only hiking with licensed EMTs, a satellite phone or a heart defibrillator.
If someone tells you it's irresponsible to hike the AT (and remember we're talking the AT) without a full set of maps, ask them if they've ever hiked alone, (which is almost universally considered irresponsible. Of course, I do it all the time.) Ask them if they carry a satellite phone, which you'll need to call a helicopter for that emergency medivac, right?
There's nothing wrong with carrying maps. Lots of folks like them and they can be useful, but to say it's irresponsible to not carry them on the AT? I think not.
icemanat95
01-22-2004, 16:21
Anyone who calls themselves a hiker who does not know how to read a map, should either learn before going out the next time, or find the nearest used gear dealer and sell everything off, because they don't belong in the woods.
Learning to use a map and compass is a gateway skill. It's also EASY and rewarding. The Army teaches it in a day and with a bit of practice you can learn to find your way overland, without trails and know where you are to within a few hundred feet (or less), at all times. It isn't rocket science.
The first thing to learn is how to recognize basic landforms and understand the symbology of topographical maps. Figureing out contour lines, the color code, etc. is pretty easy. When you get used to it, you start seeing the landforms through the symbology and begin to be able to easily relate what you see in the map to the terrain around you, that's called terrain recognition. Now you match that up to a working knowledge of the compass and you now know how to orient the map and how to determine your own orientation to it. The last element needed for pine-needle accuracy in land navigation is knowledge of your pace. IN the military you learn your pace count, or how many paces ( a pace is a step cycle consisting of one step with the left foot and another with the right.) You measure how many paces it takes for you to cover 100 meters at various speeds and over various terrains and memorize that number. Then you can track your distance by counting out your paces in 100 meter increments. You can do this by memory, or use pacecount beads. Pacecount beads are a set of small beads strung onto a piece of parachute cord in two seperate series, a 9 bead series and a 4 bead series, each series is seperated by knots. There is enough extra cord in each series to allow the beads to slide about 1 inch. Fit should be tight enough that the beads will stay where you put them on the string until you move them. When you count 100 meters, you move 1 bead of the 9 bead series, after another 100 meters, you move the next bead up with the first, and so on. When you count the tenth 100 meter increment you move 1 of the 4 bead series to indicate that you have moved 1 KM (1000 meters) since you started this movement. Then you cycle the 9 beads again. You can count up to 5 KM of movement this way. This is usually enough for military tactical movement, and for casual bushwhacking, remembering that you've covered 1 5 km interval already is easy enough. Metric scale is easier to deal with than yards and miles because anyone can figure base 10 math in their head, converting yards to miles is a bit more complex and error prone as you get tired.
For trail hiking it is even easier. Most thru-hikers get to knowing how much trail mileage they cover in 1 hour of walking. When on the trail I KNEW that I covered 3 miles with each hour of hiking, pretty much regardless of terrain (the Mahoosuc notch and arm being the notable exceptions). So, I also knew that it took me 20 minutes to cover a mile. With the wristwatch on my wrist and this knowledge I knew to within a couple hundred yards how far I had come since the last position check. Then by comparing where I thought I was to the map I could usually pinpoint my position even more closely.
There are a number of good books on map and compass work. I highly recommend Bjorn Hjellstrom's "Be Expert With Map and Compass: The Completel Orienteering Handbook." It'll teach you all you need to know.
Going out into the backcountry without a map and compass and the knowledge to use them effectively is intentionally handicapping yourself in a potentially dangerous situation. When you need a map, you NEED a map.
phil mill
01-22-2004, 16:54
Well said Colter. I am planning a solo thru hike this march and I’m not bringing any maps. I don’t think this is irrational and I will be as ‘self sufficient’ as I want to be. Hiking 2000 miles in the wilderness is what I consider self sufficient. There are several reasons for my decision.
1) They cost too much.
2) The trail is marked and others have gone with out one.
3) A co-worker who thru hiked with maps only used the profile sections and after reading this thread I am now confident that these sections do more harm than good.
If I am injured, I hope others will help me through their own human compassion and not because they ought to and then say “jeez this guy is so rude, depending on others for help.”
I think, with all things, you don't know the value of something until you are caught without it. I thru-hiked (very self-sufficiently, I believe) with no maps, and never had a problem. Noone I hiked with had them, so I didn't really think it was a necessity. The first time I even thought about it was at trail days when it was either Bag o Tricks or Baltimore Jack who told me it was irresponsible not to have them (and by that time I was already in New Jersey). So, they weren't a necessity for me, but I would never recommend for others not to take them because...WHAT IF?? I'm sure all it would take is one bad experience to make me be a huge promoter of maps. And I always take them if I am hiking lesser traveled trails.
Well said Colter. I am planning a solo thru hike this march and I’m not bringing any maps. I don’t think this is irrational and I will be as ‘self sufficient’ as I want to be. Hiking 2000 miles in the wilderness is what I consider self sufficient. There are several reasons for my decision.
1) They cost too much.
2) The trail is marked and others have gone with out one.
3) A co-worker who thru hiked with maps only used the profile sections and after reading this thread I am now confident that these sections do more harm than good.
If I am injured, I hope others will help me through their own human compassion and not because they ought to and then say “jeez this guy is so rude, depending on others for help.”
If you get whited out in the Smokys and can't get along the Appalachian trail, hopefully someone will bring you some food to the shelter. While some trails run off the ridgeline and fairly directly to a front country sight, others do not, or take a long and circuitous route. For example, suppose you get stuck at Spence Field. If you can't get through on the AT because of snow, where will you go? There is a nice trail heading south, called Eagle Creek. Maybe that will get you back to Fontana quickly and comfortably (14 river crossings, some brutal, later). If you had a map, you could pick out the right trail and get down to Cades Cove in a great hurry.
Now, of course, it never snows enough in March in the Smokys to strand people, so I wouldn't worry about it too much.
If I am going to get in a car and drive from Georgia to Maine, I would take maps, even though the roads are clearly marked. Seems only logical that I would take them if I was walking that distance too. :-? Hopefully, since I'm going much slower, I won't miss any exits..... :rolleyes:
anyone know where i can buy the maps? any options other than the atcstore? id like to buy them online, or at least with a credit card... of course, if anyone reading wants to part with a set, or at least some of the southern maps, please do email me!
thanx
--andrew
GA -> ME 2004
Well, if you don't want to buy ATC maps though the ATC, and you want to buy them on line, then go to the website of one of the many outfitters along the AT. They all stock them. I suggest Walaissi Y, Mt Rodgers Outfitters, Bluff Mountain Outfitters, the outfitter at Harpers Ferry, and many others. Also, REI in Atlanta and other places probably stocks them as well.
But, what's the problem with buying them directly from the ATC? same price anyway.
Sand Crab
01-22-2004, 19:34
Jeesh, Sand Crap, how do you really feel? Funny, I just re-read my two posts on this topic and I had trouble finding out where I was acting self-righteously. Since you brought it up, its not self-righteousness that drives me in this debate, its the safety of hikers and consideration to others.
Sorry if my comments offended you Chomp. I wasn't specifically referring to you. I just couldn't resist making a snide comment about many of the posts I have seen where people condemn anyone who doesn't have the same philosophy as they do. Note that I agree with carrying maps/data books. I also agree with carrying snake bite kits, repair kits, cell phones, kitchen sinks, etc, if you want to (but I don't necessarily carry them). Guess that I mean to say is HYOH. :p
Rain Man
01-22-2004, 19:41
If I am going to get in a car and drive from Georgia to Maine, I would take maps, even though the roads are clearly marked. Seems only logical that I would take them if I was walking that distance too.
Such an elegantly apropos analogy. Thank you!!!
Rain Man
.
Annie Cole
01-24-2004, 16:38
You can show up on Springer one day on a whim and make it all the way to Kahtahdin with out a map. Would I hike with out a map definatly. Why because, its the map people that bitch and moan about the elevation changes coming up. I don't need to hear about it im doing it anyways.
The data book is a alright resource though. Until they come out with a trail tavern and brothel book, I won't be happy.
Until they come out with a trail tavern and brothel book, I won't be happy.
....... :-?
Rain Man
01-24-2004, 17:27
Until they come out with a trail tavern and brothel book, I won't be happy.
Ahhhhhhhhhhh... now I understand.... "Annie Cole" is "Former Easy" in drag.
:mad:
.
Flash Hand
01-25-2004, 23:48
I had come to understanding that trail maps are expensive.. but WHY do they sell expensive maps.. they WON'T make any money.. America Online changed it rate plan system from hourly rate to unlimited plan... which help AOL become 10 million people richer.
SO, those IDIOTS who set up 100 dollars maps are sorry ass.. they won't have chance to success to make profits, PLUS put us in troubling life hiking the trail without the maps... WHY can't they be considerate of hiker's safety and needs? The death on the whites, is put in the responsibiltiy of the map makers who put high costs to make them unaffordable to prospective thru-hikers... I wish I could have the magic to boycott those maps until they drive the price down! :mad:
Wal-mart sells 2.99 road atlas maps for the ENTIRE united states. Why dont they make that reasonable prices for approximately annually 4 million visitors of AT.
I think I am going to take ATC companion and data book because Iam not rich enough to buy map.
Flash Hand :jump