Alcohol Stoves.

[sheepdog]

I've been messing around with alcohol stoves. There is something about backpacking stoves that makes me want to own them. All kinds...

Is there any easier stove to make than a supercat? So far they seem real easy to make and work quite well. They also don't need a pot support.

What homemade stoves do you like. How hard are they to make.

Is there a learning curve to get these stoves to function? Some stoves work great on the stove top. On a cold windy day... outside...that is another story.

I have had bad luck with the Vargo stoves.

I have ordered a starlyte from Zelph and a Trangia from a catalog. I can't wait to test them out.

Sheepdog

[oops56]

Go to youtube check some of mine out i dont make to sell but could give you some ideas

Seach RJBURG

[Mags]

Check out http://zenstoves.net/ for all kinds of info on alcohol stoves.

[le loupe]

I just bought the TREK 2 from minibull designs. found it on Ebay for 7$ including shipping. Why make one at that price? unless you really like making stuff...

Its very cool- tested it last night. 44 degrees, no wind to speak of. Fuel was Everclear. Using a stainless bowl it brought two cups of water to boil in 5 1/2 minutes.

I didn't get 12 minutes of burn time advertised, but may not have had it filled to capacity, either. The everclear didn't seem to burn very efficiently, lots of yellow flame. Plan on testing again with Methanol/Heet.

[sheepdog]

Thanks...
I also note that denatured alcohol burns hotter than the yellow heet. I think my wife thinks I'm a little nuts as I show her my newest creations. I even have a tupper ware box with stove making stuff.

[le loupe]

Yellow HEET - bad / Red HEET - good

[RadioFreq]

Yellow HEET - bad / Red HEET - good

I think it's the other way around. :-?

[take-a-knee]

I think it's the other way around. :-?

Yes, you want the yellow bottle (methanol), not the red (isopropyl).

[Skidsteer]

Thanks...
I also note that denatured alcohol burns hotter than the yellow heet. I think my wife thinks I'm a little nuts as I show her my newest creations. I even have a tupper ware box with stove making stuff.

Tupperware box full of stovemaking stuff. That's a good one.

Anybody know where I can get a 1500 sq. ft. Tupperware box?

[sheepdog]

Tupperware box full of stovemaking stuff. That's a good one.

Anybody know where I can get a 1500 sq. ft. Tupperware box?

You mean it gets worse?

[Mzee]

Thanks...
I also note that denatured alcohol burns hotter than the yellow heet. I think my wife thinks I'm a little nuts as I show her my newest creations. I even have a tupper ware box with stove making stuff.

:banana Here's to us nutty stovies: dodging aluminum shrapnel, burning thru the alcohol, inhaling the fumes, boiling countless pints of water in pursuit of perfection, giving our wives (and the guy at the hardware store) one more reason to question our sanity. Three cheers!

[Skidsteer]

You mean it gets worse?

I have to lie to my wife and tell her I'm only going to the shop to look at pornography.

[vonfrick]

Thanks...
I also note that denatured alcohol burns hotter than the yellow heet. I think my wife thinks I'm a little nuts as I show her my newest creations. I even have a tupper ware box with stove making stuff.

hm. define "hotter". does it burn faster? i was just curious (and bored!!) and the relative heats of combustion per mL of methanol vs. ethanol come out so that ethanol only produces about 2/3 the joules of methanol. assuming complete combustion for both.

nerding out. :rolleyes:

[sheepdog]

hm. define "hotter". does it burn faster? i was just curious (and bored!!) and the relative heats of combustion per mL of methanol vs. ethanol come out so that ethanol only produces about 2/3 the joules of methanol. assuming complete combustion for both.

nerding out. :rolleyes:

Yikes!!
I just know that if I put two tablespoons of yellow heat in my stove, the water comes almost to a boil before it goes out in about 6 minutes.
If I put one Tablespoon and one teaspoon (4 tsp) of denatured alcohol in the supercat. I get a full boil in a little over 4 minutes, and goes out in about 5.
Using two cups of cold tap water.

[Hooch]

The Pepsi-can stove is the easiest to make and requires the fewest tools that I'm aware of. I easily made one the first time with no problem at all. I'm not particularly mechanically inclined, so if I can make one, anyone can do it.

[vonfrick]

Yikes!!
I just know that if I put two tablespoons of yellow heat in my stove, the water comes almost to a boil before it goes out in about 6 minutes.
If I put one Tablespoon and one teaspoon (4 tsp) of denatured alcohol in the supercat. I get a full boil in a little over 4 minutes, and goes out in about 5.
Using two cups of cold tap water.

sounds like i need to do the experiment :sun

yay!

[sheepdog]

sounds like i need to do the experiment :sun

yay!

Be careful. It appears to be a slippery slope. The next thing you know, you are looking for a 1,500 square foot tupperware box.:D

[Mzee]

Be careful. It appears to be a slippery slope. The next thing you know, you are looking for a 1,500 square foot tupperware box.:D

Amen to that! :eek:

[sheepdog]

Mzee,
Have you ever tried building a supercat stove? $0.51 for the fancy feast. It only takes about 20 minutes to build. And the little stove throws out some btu's. I've built 3 (pepsi, cobra, supercat) different types so far and this one has worked the best.
Sheepdog

[Mzee]

Sheepdog -

I haven't tried a Supercat yet although it keeps hovering on the edge of my radar, mainly because of my love affair with my Heine pot and Skidsteer's amazing ziploc kitchen set up.

I started out with a cat food can stove - one inside the other, holes punched with a church key - my first step on that slippery slope. It didn't seem to work too well, but I was a beginner. I built another catfood can stove - different design. Next came open top Pepsi can stoves, then a poor version of an Ion. None of them were satisfactory. Then my wife sent me to SA (Stovies Anonymous) and I kicked the habit.

I missed a few SA meetings and that notorious pusher known as the internet gave me a shot of minibulldesign.com one day. Next thing you know I'm buying a minibull stove off ebay along with a minibull CD. I got hooked on Heine pots and built a 'sub-Atomic'. I call it a sub-Atomic because I copied Tinny's Atomic stove, but I certainly don't have his skills, so it is a sub-Atomic. I've built several versions of those with different numbers of ports. That's my favorite so far but I don't like the whole priming thing. Along the way I've tried to imitate a few of Zelph's designs: ROF, Starlyte, Fancy Feast with little success. I made a poor man's copy of the Minibull Blackfly #1 just to see how I liked a wick stove. I like the convenience of the wick stove, but my version is hard on wicks. Next I built a poor man's version of a White Box stove just for grins. It doesn't work with Heine pots and I suppose I should build a Supercat just to be fair. I've made a few open top stoves stuffed with tiki torch wicks, household insulation, and fiberglass cloth. They are the fastest boilers I've made though the sub-Atomic is not far behind.

Then one recent starry night, intoxicated on alcohol fumes, I realized that I would probably get frustrated fiddling with an alcohol stove when I'm at 9500 ft, tired, cold, hungry, and dealing with an altitude headache. So, I ordered a Snowpeak Gigapower stove. It hasn't arrived yet, but I'm looking forward to testing it with the Heine pot.

And my wife made me an appointment with Stovies Anonymous for more therapy...

"Hi. My name is Brian and I build alcohol stoves..." >B-D

[Skidsteer]

Mzee,
Have you ever tried building a supercat stove? $0.51 for the fancy feast. It only takes about 20 minutes to build. And the little stove throws out some btu's. I've built 3 (pepsi, cobra, supercat) different types so far and this one has worked the best.
Sheepdog

I'll save you some money.

Potted meat cost 25-30 cents and it's the exact same weight and dimensions.

The downside is your cat may not eat it.

[sheepdog]

Hi Skids,
Is there any stove easier to build than the supercat? Comparable?

PS
Is potted meat really meat or parts?

[Skidsteer]

Hi Skids,
Is there any stove easier to build than the supercat? Comparable?

Sure. Open cups like tealights and wedding favor tins.

[Mzee]

PS
Is potted meat really meat or parts?

My dog liked it, but I think Skids is right about the cat.

[Skidsteer]

PS
Is potted meat really meat or parts?

That's a discussion for the Sensitive trail subjects forum.


My dog liked it, but I think Skids is right about the cat.

And, unlike dogs, cats hold grudges.

[zelph]

The SuperCat is the easiest. I recommend it to all beginner stove makers.

Nothing compares to it. In a class of it's own. One of the all time greats.

Next best is the Fancy Feast:D

[sheepdog]

Next best is the Fancy Feast:D

Is there instructions somewhere for the Fancy Feast stove? I googled it but just found discussion.

I can't wait to fire up that new starlyte. Yahoo

[Skidsteer]

Is there instructions somewhere for the Fancy Feast stove? I googled it but just found discussion.

On BPLite (http://www.bplite.com/index.php).

http://www.bplite.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=105

[Tobit]

I love my FF stove. :D

[sheepdog]

Fancy Feast.... That is the next one on the list. My cat strikes gold again. The fat little bugger will probably quit chasing mice.

[take-a-knee]

Fancy Feast.... That is the next one on the list. My cat strikes gold again. The fat little bugger will probably quit chasing mice.

I hope you had better luck finding those SS coleman globes than I did, all you stovies beat me to 'em all.

[mkmangold]

Sheepdog: if you have the chance, can you compare the SuperCat to the Fancy Feast side-by-side? I'm no espert, but Zelph is. I'm interested in the comparison for reasons of my own but 3rd party comparisons would be great.

[sheepdog]

Sheepdog: if you have the chance, can you compare the SuperCat to the Fancy Feast side-by-side? I'm no espert, but Zelph is. I'm interested in the comparison for reasons of my own but 3rd party comparisons would be great.

Will do. I have started a test chart with all the stoves I build. When I get the FF done, I'll let you know.

[sheepdog]

I hope you had better luck finding those SS coleman globes than I did, all you stovies beat me to 'em all.

I work in a sporting goods store...I have connections. :cool:

Fancy Feast stove:
So basically I cut the ss globe to size, put it in the can and your done?

[Mzee]

I tried a FF stove using the middle of an energy drink can for the pot support instead of mesh. I used fiberglass cloth for the wick. The stove didn't work very well.

Is wire mesh the key? Or the wick? Or both? I can't find an ss globes around here.

[Tobit]

Is wire mesh the key? Or the wick? Or both? I can't find an ss globes around here.
I donut think the material for the integral pot stand is key as Zelph now has one made with a solid material for the pot stand. However, I think height of the pot stand is key and needs to be matched to the pot you are using. I love mine, I can boil 20 oz. of 56F water in just over 9 minutes using a little less than 3/4 oz. of fuel and it's a full enraged boil not just small bubbles.

Here are some pics:

Stove
http://n1ese.qrpradio.com/backpacking/kitchen/stove-1.jpg

Flame Pattern
http://n1ese.qrpradio.com/backpacking/kitchen/burn.jpg

[zelph]

Here is the location of the thread that tells the history of the Fancy Feast (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=27262) It's one of the few threads that I didn't preface with the Frolicking Banana. No wonder it can't be found:banana

[wudhipy]

I made a coke can stove about 5 years ago and still use it from time to time. It's dented up quite a bit and I can barely make out the print on the metal, but the thing can still bring water to a boil in short order.

wudhipy

[Mzee]

However, I think height of the pot stand is key and needs to be matched to the pot you are using.

Any clues on pot stand height using a Heineken can - 24 oz? Thx.

I'm still trying to figure out what the wick material is. Is it fiberglass cloth? I can get some 4" wide stuff. Do I fold it to make it fit? How thick should the wick be? Many questions I have, yes.:confused:

[Tobit]

Any clues on pot stand height using a Heineken can - 24 oz? Thx. I'm still trying to figure out what the wick material is.
The exact width of the SS mesh in my Fancy Feast stove pictured above is 2" resulting in a height of ~1/2" above the wick. This is the perfect height for a Heiny pot.

The wick is simply cotton wick material used for oil lamps.

[russb]

hm. define "hotter". does it burn faster? i was just curious (and bored!!) and the relative heats of combustion per mL of methanol vs. ethanol come out so that ethanol only produces about 2/3 the joules of methanol. assuming complete combustion for both.

nerding out. :rolleyes:


Ethanol 84,400 BTU per gallon
Methanol 62,800 BTU per gallon

http://www.uwsp.edu/CNR/wcee/keep/Mod1/Whatis/energyresourcetables.htm

[Mzee]

The exact width of the SS mesh in my Fancy Feast stove pictured above is 2" resulting in a height of ~1/2" above the wick. This is the perfect height for a Heiny pot.

The wick is simply cotton wick material used for oil lamps.

Thanks for the info on the height. Cotton wick, eh? Does it continue to burn after the alcohol is gone? I've been operating on the understanding that the wick needed to be some sort of inflammable material such as fiberglass cloth. I'll have to get some cotton wick and give it a go. Thank you.

[le loupe]

Methanol 8600 btu / lb
Ethanol 11500 btu / lb


http://dnr.louisiana.gov/sec/execdiv/techasmt/ecep/auto/k/k.htm

[take-a-knee]

Methanol 8600 btu / lb
Ethanol 11500 btu / lb


http://dnr.louisiana.gov/sec/execdiv/techasmt/ecep/auto/k/k.htm

Yes but who wants to pay $30/gal for Everclear.

[zelph]

Thanks for the info on the height. Cotton wick, eh? Does it continue to burn after the alcohol is gone? I've been operating on the understanding that the wick needed to be some sort of inflammable material such as fiberglass cloth. I'll have to get some cotton wick and give it a go. Thank you.

Use fiberglass cloth available at hardware stores ask for it by name "Bondo" fiberglass repair cloth

[sheepdog]

Sheepdog: if you have the chance, can you compare the SuperCat to the Fancy Feast side-by-side? I'm no espert, but Zelph is. I'm interested in the comparison for reasons of my own but 3rd party comparisons would be great.

Well I figgured out the FF stove. Quite simple once you get the picture in your mind.
All times are approximate, I did not use a stopwatch. All tests used two cups of cold tapwater and were conducted on my kitchen stovetop. I used a k-mart grease pot for a kettle.

With the FF I could get a boil with 4 teaspoons of DA. It took 6 minutes and boiled for another half minute. 6.5 minutes total. The FF burns better if you swirl the alcohol inside the stove to wet the wick down before lighting. A little priming kicks it off better IMO also.

With the supercat I could get a boil with 4tsp of denatured alcohol. It boiled in about 3.5 minutes and continued to burn another half minute. 4 minutes total.

The supercat works well with a wide pot like the grease pot. The fire really spreads out. The FF stove would work good with a grease pot or a heini can. One stove is just about as easy to make as the other. The FF stove is more expensive because you have to buy a stainless steel globe. But the whole stove probably cost me $3.50. Once you make one, both stoves can be made in less than a half hour.

Also my new starlyte showed up. :) 1 tbls of DA = 8 minute burn time and a boil in 5 minutes. It rocks!! The most fuel efficient of all my stoves. It is also easy to fill with the little medicine cup. Great stove Zelph!!

I still have lots to learn but it has been fun. Thanks for all who helped out this stove building newbe.:sun:sun:sun

[Mzee]

Good job, Sheepdog. You're on the slippery slope now!

[Dances with Mice]

Methanol 8600 btu / lb
Ethanol 11500 btu / lb Yeah but....those numbers are not a fair comparison. They're accurate technically but it's not useful in actual practice. IOW, a chemist wrote them not a chemical engineer.

Without going into phase diagrams, let's just say no hiker is carrying pure ethanol unless they special ordered it from a chemical supply house. You can easily buy 100% Meth but 100% Eth is rare stuff that requires special handling. Look up the world "azeotrope".

Ethanol, even denatured, will have no less than 4% by weight water (10% mole wt. of water) and almost always more since ethanol likes to absorb water. That's no surprise, it's why it's used to remove water from gas lines, right? If I open a bottle of 96% ethanol here in humid Georgia it won't be 96% by the time I close the bottle.

So first knock at least 4% off the BTU/# and you get about 11K btu/#. Then subtract out the energy required to heat and vaporize the water content. I'll leave that as an exercise for the student. The bottom line is that there's really not much difference.

Jokes about how much 10% of a mole weighs can now begin. I've heard all that may be posted and know even more.

[sheepdog]

Yeah but....those numbers are not a fair comparison. They're accurate technically but it's not useful in actual practice. IOW, a chemist wrote them not a chemical engineer.

Without going into phase diagrams, let's just say no hiker is carrying pure ethanol unless they special ordered it from a chemical supply house. You can easily buy 100% Meth but 100% Eth is rare stuff that requires special handling. Look up the world "azeotrope".

Ethanol, even denatured, will have no less than 4% by weight water (10% mole wt. of water) and almost always more since ethanol likes to absorb water. That's no surprise, it's why it's used to remove water from gas lines, right? If I open a bottle of 96% ethanol here in humid Georgia it won't be 96% by the time I close the bottle.

So first knock at least 4% off the BTU/# and you get about 11K btu/#. Then subtract out the energy required to heat and vaporize the water content. I'll leave that as an exercise for the student. The bottom line is that there's really not much difference.

Jokes about how much 10% of a mole weighs can now begin. I've heard all that may be posted and know even more.

I'm no chemist... But when I test stoves in my house, I get faster boils and longer burn times with denatured alcohol than I do with Heet. Any one else get the same results?

[sheepdog]

Good job, Sheepdog. You're on the slippery slope now!

Yep, I'll probably have to start lying to my wife like Skids and say, I"m heading out to the shop to read porn." That is probably one of the funniest posts I've read.:D:D:D

[Dances with Mice]

I'm no chemist... But when I test stoves in my house, I get faster boils and longer burn times with denatured alcohol than I do with Heet. Any one else get the same results?I can understand the longer burn time. Faster boil, I don't know.

[Mzee]

I started experimenting with Heet recently, but I'd have to agree with Sheepdog based on my initial impressions. My first impressions are that denatured alcohol boils water faster than Heet. But I need to do more testing on this subject to see if my first impression will last.

[mkmangold]

Sheepdog: way to go. That is exactly the kind of information we need. Good job.

[Skidsteer]

I'm no chemist... But when I test stoves in my house, I get faster boils and longer burn times with denatured alcohol than I do with Heet. Any one else get the same results?


I can understand the longer burn time. Faster boil, I don't know.

My tests show essentially the same boil times for both; Maybe a slight edge to denat on average, but it can vary so much depending on the stove design that it's hard to pin down.

But denat gives significant wiggleroom to get the boil in the first place. IOW, if conditions(wind, temp, etc.) stink, denat is preferred by me.

Everclear, however, is king. But who can afford to burn it all the time?

I ran into some Chem students from Reinhardt college (http://www.reinhardt.edu/about) once near Plumorchard Gap. Their prof had hooked them up with lab grade ethanol and they had made alcohol stoves in class.

Now that's a cool professor.

[Philippe]

I just bought the TREK 2 from minibull designs. found it on Ebay for 7$ including shipping. Why make one at that price? unless you really like making stuff...

Its very cool- tested it last night. 44 degrees, no wind to speak of. Fuel was Everclear. Using a stainless bowl it brought two cups of water to boil in 5 1/2 minutes.

I didn't get 12 minutes of burn time advertised, but may not have had it filled to capacity, either. The everclear didn't seem to burn very efficiently, lots of yellow flame. Plan on testing again with Methanol/Heet.


Would everyone who has fallen to into the pit of such dispair that they are burning Everclear in their stoves please contact me. I would be happy to send them double the amount of S-L-X (pure denatured alcohol-gotta love it) as the amount of Everclear received from them. What a bargan for them. There is no doubt in my mind that the angels weep at just the thought of it burned. Just trying to do my part in a small way.

[zelph]

I'm no chemist... But when I test stoves in my house, I get faster boils and longer burn times with denatured alcohol than I do with Heet. Any one else get the same results?

I get the same results as you!!!!!!

[le loupe]

Would everyone who has fallen to into the pit of such dispair that they are burning Everclear in their stoves please contact me. I would be happy to send them double the amount of S-L-X (pure denatured alcohol-gotta love it) as the amount of Everclear received from them. What a bargan for them. There is no doubt in my mind that the angels weep at just the thought of it burned. Just trying to do my part in a small way.

Somebody gave it to me, what's cheaper fuel than that- regardless I'm not gonna drink that stuff. I might go blind. I'll take a nice, sweet, port.

I got a fair amount of smut build up on my pot with it anyway. I just may take you up on the S-L-X for 'Clear. My curiosity might need to be sated.

[Mzee]

Dateline: 03/20/2008
Honeydew Labs West
Professor Al Fumes reporting
The showdown: Heet vs Denatured Alcohol

Warning: Long and potentially boring post. If you’re not interested in the nitty gritty of alcohol stove testing, be advised to move on to other more interesting topics.

Materials:
2 pressurized soda can stoves with 6 ports on the inside rim aiming the flames toward the center.

2 Heineken 24 oz. beer can pots.

Windscreen #1: made from 4 inch aluminum duct connector (DAC4): 3 ¾” h x 4” dia; ¼ inch holes punched along bottom edge for airflow; pot supports made from 2 metal rods similar to tent stakes pushed through holes in windscreen; pot approx ¾” above rim of stove

Windscreen #2; made from aluminum baking sheet: 5 ¼ h x 5 ¼ dia; ¼ inch holes punched along bottom edge for airflow; pot support made from ½“ hardware cloth; 6 squares high formed into a cylinder, pot snugs down into pot support and sits approx 5/8” above rim of stove.

Fuel: Yellow bottle Heet vs Ace Hardware brand denatured alcohol

Outside air temp: approx 50 F at start of test
Light breeze that died to slight breeze by end of test

Water: 2 cups tap water; drawn from outside spigot; temperature unknown.

Time kept by stopwatch. All times mm:ss
Tests conducted outside on a BBQ between 8:00 pm and 9:00 pm PDT @ < 100 ft above sea level.

Procedure:
Locations of stove/windscreen combinations remained the same for both tests. Only the fuel was switched. Windscreens were positioned near stoves. Pots were filled with 2 cups of tap water. Stoves were filled with approx 1 fluid ounce (35 mm film container filled to brim); primed with the same fuel; lit and allowed to stabilize. Windscreens were placed over stoves one at a time and then the pots were placed over the stoves. The pots were moved one at a time, but within seconds of each other.

Results:
Test #1
Heet / Windscreen #1: Boil @ 11:25 Out @ 13:30
DA / Windscreen #2: Boil @ 17:21 Out @ 23:23

Test #2
DA / Windscreen #1: Boil @ 11:20 Out @ 16:15
Heet / Windscreen #2: Boil @ 16:58 Out @ 22:30

Conclusion: These tests reveal more about the windscreens than the fuel. Using windscreen #1, Denatured Alcohol boiled water faster by 5 seconds. Using windscreen #2, Heet boiled water faster by 23 seconds. In terms of the fuel used, these time differences are insignificant. The fuel used didn’t matter as much as the windscreen used. Using Windscreen #1 the water boiled faster, but the stove was out sooner. Using windscreen #2 resulted in longer boil times and longer burn times.

Windscreen #1 is 1½ inch shorter, but smaller in diameter. This holds the heat in: heating the pot and making the stove burn faster. The fuel was consumed faster with this windscreen.

Windscreen #2 is taller but has a larger gap between stove/pot and the windscreen. The result is the stove runs cooler and longer and the water takes longer to boil.

Burn whatever fuel you want, but pay attention to your windscreen.

In other news: Supercat #2 was constructed using standard directions. 5” aluminum billy pot with 2 cups water was used. In test #1, the stove was filled with approx 1-ounce denatured alcohol and burned for 8:29. The water was hot and steamy but did not boil. A fluff of household insulation about the size of a cotton ball was placed in the bottom of the stove and smashed down and around a little. In test #2, the stove was filled with approx 1-ounce denatured alcohol. This combination brought the water to a boil in 7:46 and burned for 12:10.

Conclusion: The insulation controlled the burn of the alcohol; slowing it down and keeping it focused on the bottom of the pot instead of leaping up the sides and wasting the heat. Try some wicking material in the bottom of your Supercat. It might work better.

YMMV,
Professor Al Fumes signing off.

[Mzee]

Umm... one more thing... tests were conducted < 100 feet above sea level.

[sheepdog]

Conclusion: The insulation controlled the burn of the alcohol; slowing it down and keeping it focused on the bottom of the pot instead of leaping up the sides and wasting the heat. Try some wicking material in the bottom of your Supercat. It might work better.

YMMV,
Professor Al Fumes signing off.

I'm going to try the insulation. Good report.

[Dances with Mice]

Burn whatever fuel you want, but pay attention to your windscreen.Ayep. Windscreen design, height of stove to pot, and pot thickness are significant factors in boil time. Less significant are stove design and pot shape / color. Meth vs eth is a wash but isopropyl sucks.

The bottom line for hikers is that once they've settled on an alcohol cooking system they can burn whatever fuel is either cheapest or most available.

[sheepdog]

Do any of you stovies have tips for joining two cans of like size (pepsi stoves etc..). I have tried pushing an unopened can on one but it doesn't seem to help much.

[Mzee]

Do any of you stovies have tips for joining two cans of like size (pepsi stoves etc..). I have tried pushing an unopened can on one but it doesn't seem to help much.

Some recommend heating one side & freezing the other to gain the size difference. Some suggest cutting slots in one half to make it easier to slide one side inside or outside the other.

The method I use I got from Tinny @ Minibull design. Take a pair of needle nose pliers and grip one edge and give it a little twist to put a small bend or wrinkle in the edge. Repeat this process around the edge of the can. Observed from above, the edge of the can will look like a series of little S curves all the way around the edge. The concept is to wrinkle the edge enough to shrink the diameter of the can so it will slip inside the other can. Slip the two halves together slowly and carefully. Squeeze them together and try to keep them aligned and square as you go. If you go too fast, you can create wrinkles in one of the halves or get them out of alignment.

Some cautions: Don't reach too far down the edge with the pliers; keep the bend within 1/2" - 5/8" of the edge. This method can create little escape routes for alcohol vapor to slip over the edge and leak out of the seam, but not very often. I've built about 10 pressurized stoves using this method and only two have leaked. To avoid the leak, use JB weld to glue the two halves together, unless you've got mad skills and can make a hot roll crimp.

I cut the bottom of the can @ 1 1/2" and the top @ 1 1/4". For me the bottom goes inside the top. Some do it the other way. I suggest making whatever jets or ports you want to make before you cut the can. It's easier to drill or poke holes in the end of an uncut can. If I make a large hole for a fill port, I'm always careful to make sure the hole is blocked or covered before lighting the stove. If enough air can get inside the stove and mix with the alcohol vapors, the stove can go "boom".

Remember, the material is cheap so if it doesn't work, throw it into the lessons learned box (the 1500 sq ft Tupperware box) and start over. The skills will come. Use caution, work safe, protect your eyes, hands and the rest of you plus whoever might be close by and keep on building. Safety is the #1 and #2 rule.

zenstoves.net (http://zenstoves.net/) is a great resource as are other web sites, including this one. I'm not much of an innovator as others are (Zelph, Skidsteer, Tinny, etc.). I try to learn from them and do what my skills will allow. (Standing on the shoulders of giants) I’ve had some fantastic disasters, but I've yet to blow one up. I do all my testing outside (gotta love that California weather) and stand back a little whenever testing a new pressurized stove.

Your journey to the dark side is almost complete, young Jedi.

[socalhiker]

I use the same method as MZEE and commend his detailed comprehensible description. As MZEE mentions, the bottom inside the top is my preference based on my belief that it prevents or minimizes vapor leaks from the junction of the two cans. Additionally, I have recently utilized a hole cutter drill bit to make a 1” diameter hole in the top rather than cutting the full width inside the raised ridge. This seems to provide a somewhat more efficient burn.

I have tried penny, cat, tea light and others but keep going back to soda cans and my favorite, the 5 oz V8 can pressurized stove. These are fun to make and boil 2 cups of water in approximately 5.5 minutes consistently.

My experience with alcohol stoves began when I walked into my supplier of canisters for my Primus stove and the 8oz fuel canister jumped from $3.50 to six dollars. It had the same effect as the seller flipping me the bird rather than the expected, “thank you,” for your years of loyalty.

Tinny’s video and the zen stove website provided primary school education followed with advanced degrees conferred by Zelph and Skidster and this website with tips on tools to use. Following a hard day when I am too done-in to read, watch tv or even surf the web, there is a touch of therapy in just breaking out the tool box and making a stove or two.

[Old Wolf]

I bought an alcohol stove from Mechanic Mike on ebay for $10.00. It came with a wind screen. I use HEET, a gas line antifreeze, for fuel. Its the best. Get it at WallMart for $.99 a bottle. I use two ounces of HEET and put a pot of water on, it boils in about 4 minutes. The stove burned for 11 minutes. It burns clean and the stove was cooled in less than 2 minutes. I throw it my small Tupperware bowls and off we go. Its a great little stove for the money.

[le loupe]

ok- I thought i would be content to buy a stove from tinny at minibull and that would be the end of it, not so...

I want to build something with a long burn time. I thought using two fosters cans would give me a large resevoir and they do- 3 oz.

I drilled 16 jets, 1/16".

It boiled quick- in about 4 min. Its not very cold today, and tested inside the confines of my grill, so i was able to eliminate virtually all wind.

Problem is I only got about 9 min. of total burn- I was hoping for something near 20. During the test I saw a lot of bubbling at the bottom. This would seem to be a pressure loss, perhaps leading to reduced efficiency?

I epoxied the joint to seal the two halves together. Any thoughts while it cures?

[Skidsteer]

ok- I thought i would be content to buy a stove from tinny at minibull and that would be the end of it, not so...

I want to build something with a long burn time. I thought using two fosters cans would give me a large resevoir and they do- 3 oz.

I drilled 16 jets, 1/16".

It boiled quick- in about 4 min. Its not very cold today, and tested inside the confines of my grill, so i was able to eliminate virtually all wind.

Problem is I only got about 9 min. of total burn- I was hoping for something near 20. During the test I saw a lot of bubbling at the bottom. This would seem to be a pressure loss, perhaps leading to reduced efficiency?

I epoxied the joint to seal the two halves together. Any thoughts while it cures?

Make a simmer ring that closes off the jets and leaves most of the center hole open.

[atraildreamer]

You mean it gets worse?

You have embarked :welcomeupon a path (stovemaking) that will only result in insanity! :banana:banana:banana

[justinwp]

I use denatured alcohol with the stove I made. I got instructions from zenstoves.net and added made some of my own modifications.

http://www.justinwp.com/Pictures/pic_1205206028.jpg

[outsidethebox]

Sheepdog - anyone,
I was wondering if anyone has tried using a tea candle to heat the alcohol in a stove? I suspended a soda can stove inside a soup can punched full of holes and set it over a candle. When the alcohol came to a boil the flames were impressive. About a foot of blue flames! Not recommended, I'm sure, but it got me thinking. A lot of fuel is expended just heating the alcohol. What if.............

[le loupe]

which is less efficient- burning fuel to warm the stove until pressurized or heating the stove up so hot (with the candle) that its over pressurized?

Blowing footlong flames no doubt looks cool but probably loses more fuel/heat than you saved with the candle pre-heat.

[outsidethebox]

True enough, but don't throw the baby and the bathwater out yet. I've built two sizes of the cat food can stove. The one that resembles the Brasslight stove. The larger one is the least efficient. Why? too much fuel to heat.
I'm trying some very small burners now - maybe a vaporization chamber with a candle under it.........
Nothing ventured nothing gained.

[Wags]

with a name like 'outsidethebox' i'd expect some fresh ideas :D

[outsidethebox]

I'm experimenting with a new style burner this week. I have two soda can bottoms rivited together in the center with cotton cord coiled in layers between the bottoms. I let the cotton soak up alcohol until it was saturated, then lit it. It put out 6" high blue flames in an irregular pattern. So, I made a ring out of aluminum flashing to set on top of the burner and hopefully distrubute the flames in a more even pattern. Soaked and lit the thing again. This time the flames were even, it burned for about 50 seconds and practically mented the ring made of flashing. Not much burn time or capacity for burn time but the thing is very light and very hot. I'll think of a new angle on it soon.

[outsidethebox]

Opps, "melted" not mented - I wasn't making candy!

[sheepdog]

Sheepdog - anyone,
I was wondering if anyone has tried using a tea candle to heat the alcohol in a stove? I suspended a soda can stove inside a soup can punched full of holes and set it over a candle. When the alcohol came to a boil the flames were impressive. About a foot of blue flames! Not recommended, I'm sure, but it got me thinking. A lot of fuel is expended just heating the alcohol. What if.............
That would be very simular to priming a stove (pouring a little alcohol around the stove and setting it on fire). With a little tinkering it could be possible. The gram weinies would want to know if the candle out weighed the extra use of alcohol. Stoves are just plain fun. I've got one in the works now that I can't wait to unveil. It's close....so close ;)

[whitefoot_hp]

ok, so who has the most efficient stove , in terms of amount of fuel to boil two cups of water?

[Skidsteer]

ok, so who has the most efficient stove , in terms of amount of fuel to boil two cups of water?

Do you mean alcohol stoves only?

[whitefoot_hp]

yes i do.

[Dances with Mice]

ok, so who has the most efficient stove , in terms of amount of fuel to boil two cups of water?I do. Thanks for asking.

[Skidsteer]

ok, so who has the most efficient stove , in terms of amount of fuel to boil two cups of water?


I do. Thanks for asking.

No, I do.

Who ya gonna believe? A juggler?

Pfthhht.

[Bulldawg]

No, I do.

Who ya gonna believe? A juggler?

Pfthhht.

Skids stove is pretty darned efficient. But I ain't one of them gram weenies, ask Skids how much alcohol I carry around with me?

[oops56]

I am not going to get into this but it not how much fuel its time to boil 16 oz. water there i said

[sheepdog]

I finished my new stove. At least I hope it is a new stove. I have never seen one like it anywhere else. I used a stainless steel GSI expresso cup. It is double walled and I drilled three 3/16 holes equally spaced around the inside bottom of the cup. Just through the inside walls.
I then used my dremmel tool cutting disk and cut 8 slits 1/2 from the lip of the cup through the outside wall. I tried to make them 1/4 inch but some were bigger than others. Still working on quality control.

So I burned the stove with 2 Tablespoons of denatured alcohol. After it primed I set my grease pot with two cups of cold tap water directly on the stove. In 9 minutes it boiled the water. The stove continued to burn for a total of 27 minutes. :D
I have a picture of it but can't seem to put it on here.:(
The stainless cup weighs about 2 ounces, but it is practically indestructable.

[Skidsteer]

Classic side burner design.

Nice twist though.

[sheepdog]

Finally figured out how to send a picture.


http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/1/4/9/2/0/sweetpea_stove.jpg (http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=23980&original=1&c=member&imageuser=14920)

[Nearly Normal]

I finished my new stove. At least I hope it is a new stove. I have never seen one like it anywhere else. I used a stainless steel GSI expresso cup. It is double walled and I drilled three 3/16 holes equally spaced around the inside bottom of the cup. Just through the inside walls.
I then used my dremmel tool cutting disk and cut 8 slits 1/2 from the lip of the cup through the outside wall. I tried to make them 1/4 inch but some were bigger than others. Still working on quality control.

So I burned the stove with 2 Tablespoons of denatured alcohol. After it primed I set my grease pot with two cups of cold tap water directly on the stove. In 9 minutes it boiled the water. The stove continued to burn for a total of 27 minutes. :D
I have a picture of it but can't seem to put it on here.:(
The stainless cup weighs about 2 ounces, but it is practically indestructable.

2 tablespoons= 27 mins.
That is good.
Be nice to see a couple more pics of flame pattern etc..

[oops56]

Don't get your spoons mix up there is a tea spoon and a tablespoon witch one

[sheepdog]

Table spoons ..the big ones.

[whitefoot_hp]

I do. Thanks for asking.
your welcome. what kind of design do you go with?

[Skidsteer]

your welcome. what kind of design do you go with?

Dances has left the building(hiking actually)so I'll answer.

He uses a 'Kitten Stove' (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=5422&catid=searchresults&searchid=14540):

http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/1/0/3/0/stove_finished_thumb.jpg (http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=5422&c=searchresults&searchid=14540),

a small version of a cat stove and his own design. His windscreen serves as a potstand with the addition of some slick tensioned wires that can be quickly disassembled:

http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/1/0/3/0/cookpot_thumb.jpg (http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=15528&c=searchresults&searchid=14540)

I once, as a joke, made him a custom stove to fit his name:

http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/1/0/3/0/mouse-stove_thumb.jpg (http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=15529&c=searchresults&searchid=14540)

'Kitten stoves' are indeed very effecient and very fast boilers for alcohol stoves.

[whitefoot_hp]

thanks for response, skids.

how much fuel for 2 cup boil?

[Skidsteer]

thanks for response, skids.

how much fuel for 2 cup boil?

15 ml will do 2 cups in six minutes or less with about 60 seconds burn time for wiggle room in warm temps.

A good rule of thumb would be to add a ml or two for every ten degrees below 65 F. or if it's really windy.

[whitefoot_hp]

thats really my target for a stove, about a half ounce. my current one is a side burner coke can type, taking about 3/4 to 1 oz for the same boil. might have to make one of those and do some comparing...

[Skidsteer]

thats really my target for a stove, about a half ounce. my current one is a side burner coke can type, taking about 3/4 to 1 oz for the same boil. might have to make one of those and do some comparing...

What size/model of pot do you use, Whitefoot?

[whitefoot_hp]

MSR Titan kettle

[Skidsteer]

MSR Titan kettle

You'll be good to go with a solid windscreen system.

Interesting note:

The Caldera Cone package includes, you guessed it, a Kitten stove. It's plays a large role in the reported effeciency of the Caldera, IMO.

[whitefoot_hp]

my current set up has a similar windscreen as the pic you posted of DWM's. i got that part down, just need a better stove. i am starting to like the idea of a wood stove

[sheepdog]

Hello
Just bought 4 mountain dew promotional bottles. They are aluminum. What is a good stove design for them.
thanks sheepdog

[Skidsteer]

Hello
Just bought 4 mountain dew promotional bottles. They are aluminum. What is a good stove design for them.
thanks sheepdog

We don't have those in the South so far. What diameter are they?

[sheepdog]

We don't have those in the South so far. What diameter are they?
They are at home. I'll measure them and post later. Maybe we can work out a trade. I can't find the big Heiniken cans up here.

[sheepdog]

We don't have those in the South so far. What diameter are they?
2 1/4 inches.