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whitefoot_hp
03-23-2008, 20:44
they don't GAF
dats how dey roll, dawg!

HikerRanky
03-23-2008, 20:47
i thought that was groucho marks

Actually, I thought it was Julius Henry "Groucho" Marx...

:-?

whitefoot_hp
03-23-2008, 20:54
lots of fair and valid points expressed here. sorry folks, i am away from the portals of cyberspace over the weekend.

my question now, is, why did the hotel owner assume that the behavior of these few in question is indicative of hiker behavior in general? Pretend these folks were not hikers, but more common tourists, driving on a road trip. they do the same things, break the same rules. Would anybody let them get away with charging more to the general public to compensate for this behavior? i think not. potential damages should be worked into the price of rooms by the establishment. i understand that in this case a discount was revoked, but this will only turn away good business and the hotel owner will miss out on plenty of hikers who happen to be quiet and well behaved consumers, simply because they assumed that a because a few of their customers were belligerent, that it had something to do with the fact they were hikers.

another interesting line of thought i am noticing is that people are saying "hikers need to police other hikers" and the "community needs to be responsible" Has it ever occurred to anyone that they read way too far into the fact that they hike and others do as well? does it really mean we are a community? most of us sit on toilets rather often, most of us have jobs, but we don't call that the toilet community do we? The suggestion that others should snoop and judge others is wrong in any context, and you fascists, (you know who you are) better never assume that because I am on the trail and you consider yourself some kind of hiker authority that it gives you any right to tell me what to do. that is about as un american as it gets, and for that i will deport you from the trail!!

mudhead
03-23-2008, 21:02
Probably wasn't the owner's first time at the rodeo.

I have seen the "What do I care? I'll never be here again." mentality.

generoll
03-23-2008, 21:04
If the decision was bad businesswise, then the owners will be the ones to suffer. So why all the furor. A benefit was apparently abused and then withdrawn. As far as I can tell none of the posters were present. The owners seemed to have decided that it made good business sense to revoke the discount. Their business, their rules. Let the rest of the hikers take note and learn a lesson from this. Bad behavior on the part of the few results in bad outcomes for many.

Lone Wolf
03-23-2008, 21:06
If the decision was bad businesswise, then the owners will be the ones to suffer. So why all the furor. A benefit was apparently abused and then withdrawn. As far as I can tell none of the posters were present. The owners seemed to have decided that it made good business sense to revoke the discount. Their business, their rules. Let the rest of the hikers take note and learn a lesson from this. Bad behavior on the part of the few results in bad outcomes for many.

typical AT.

fiddlehead
03-23-2008, 21:08
The kid's pretty wise for a 22 year old.
I'm with ya on this one whitefoot.

If it was legal AND whiteblaze allowed me mentioning it, you'd possibly be surprised what kind of people smoke. (well maybe not) You do-gooders anyway.

I learned how (cigarettes) in the military. An E6 gave it to me.

Lone Wolf
03-23-2008, 21:13
The kid's pretty wise for a 22 year old.
I'm with ya on this one whitefoot.

If it was legal AND whiteblaze allowed me mentioning it, you'd possibly be surprised what kind of people smoke. (well maybe not) You do-gooders anyway.

I learned how (cigarettes) in the military. An E6 gave it to me.

wise? that's funny. he goes to a rich college and copies text book quotes. :D

whitefoot_hp
03-23-2008, 21:21
wise? that's funny. he goes to a rich college and copies text book quotes. :D
my college is waaay underfunded and lacks text books... :)

Hooch
03-23-2008, 21:24
my college is waaay underfunded and lacks text books... :)Never been to a college where you didn't have to buy your own. :rolleyes:

Tin Man
03-23-2008, 21:47
obviously you're not a Marine.

Nope. Wanted to go Navy, but I was talked out of it.

Tin Man
03-23-2008, 21:53
I assume nothing. I'm very proudly drug and intoxicant free, excepting the occasional adult beverage, which I use responsibly.


Hooch, I was supporting your statement and adding that some are making assumptions, not you. (Just clarifing)

Hooch
03-23-2008, 21:53
Nope. Wanted to go Navy, but I was talked out of it.My Marine Corps is a department of the Navy. Fortunately, it's the Men's Department. :p:D

Hooch
03-23-2008, 21:54
Hooch, I was supporting your statement and adding that some are making assumptions, not you. (Just clarifing)Good to go, TM.

Tin Man
03-23-2008, 22:14
My Marine Corps is a department of the Navy. Fortunately, it's the Men's Department. :p:D

Yeah, yeah. You go be a man on the beach and me and my sexy boat ladies will try to remember to pick you up when you are done. :D

River Runner
03-23-2008, 23:48
I've put in six of the last eight weeks out backpaking so I suppose that I could classify myself as an avid backpacker. ;)

So Jason,

What hotel/hostel were you staying in using the internet? Looks like you've posted most of that time other than a few stretches of 2-3 days and one of 6 days or so.

Jason of the Woods
03-24-2008, 07:50
They are ways to use the internet without being indoors. I don't condone it but do it from time to time. Actually I haven't stayed in a hostel for a while now, just the woods.;)

I hate to go against you LW but they have not found anything that links smoking pot to cancer. Actually they are saying the opposite now.
So Jason,

What hotel/hostel were you staying in using the internet? Looks like you've posted most of that time other than a few stretches of 2-3 days and one of 6 days or so.

mrc237
03-24-2008, 08:00
..................to be quiet and well behaved consumers:::::::These type of hikers don't GAS about discounts.

warren doyle
03-24-2008, 19:42
Interesting, and sometimes amusing, read.

Jim Adams
03-24-2008, 22:14
Is it bad to care about our Earth for the future?

You answered your own question about the HI. If they don't want our business then I say that we support someone who does. There will always be people who want to cater to the hiking community. Most people are smart enough to know that a few idiots don't set the tone for the rest of us.

Man, I don't know you but that's a pretty grim outlook you have there.

the hiking community is so small that if a large business is helping or giving anything to hikers it is usually because in some small way they care....they certainly are not going to notice much bottom line difference at the end of the year if they eliminate income from hikers.

geek

Jim Adams
03-24-2008, 22:17
I've put in six of the last eight weeks out backpaking so I suppose that I could classify myself as an avid backpacker. After hearing your view I would have to ask where your passion lays? Is it in getting a few dollar discount from corporate pigs or caring about the "big" picture. Sad stuff. Evidentally you need to hike more or find another way to vent that anger of yours.;)


open your eyes! when you are talking about the trail, nature and the future of hiking and who has the most control and pull...the "corporate pigs" are the big picture!

geek

Tin Man
03-24-2008, 22:19
the hiking community is so small that if a large business is helping or giving anything to hikers it is usually because in some small way they care....they certainly are not going to notice much bottom line difference at the end of the year if they eliminate income from hikers.

geek

I doubt if many offer the discount to show they care versus filling unreserved rooms. Plus there is the marginal benefit of hikers potentially wanting to return to a particular trail town some day for a visit and wanting to stay in the same place they did hiking. The discount is a good business plan, but not if a-holes are going to abuse it.

Jim Adams
03-24-2008, 22:24
Now I'm a bit worried that I will come home more anal-retentive than what I am now.;)

impossible!:D

geek

Appalachian Tater
03-24-2008, 22:25
My thought is that the reason any lodging place like the HIE in Hiawassee offers a hiker discount is because hikers will go to the cheapest place and cram 4+ people in each room. If they want the business at all, they have to be able to compete on price.

There is an inn in Hanover, right on the trail, but few hikers post here about staying there. I doubt it's because the rooms are dirty or the beds are too soft or there's not enough hot water.

Frosty
03-24-2008, 22:30
\


You come across pretty self righteous yourself, not to mention immature and self-centered. :-?My guess he is putting us on, one of those guys that like to stir up dissention on the internet. No one could really think like that.

Nearly Normal
03-24-2008, 22:40
Maggots? And have you even heard their side of the story?

If you are saying you have never smoked pot in a hotel room, you are probably in the minority.

OK, I'll change to er...........S***birds.
Happy?

Minority? You bet.
White, Southern, Working Man, Family Man.
Fishes, Hunts, Cooks Good Bar-Ba Que.
Supports the NRA, DNR and ATC.
Hikes, Backpacks, and Camps when time allows.
Won't abide Liars, Thieves, or those who don't respect others and/or there property.

You are right in one respect.
I have not heard their side of the story, but......
It seems they somehow ruined every other hikers chance to stay at a nice place at a discounted price.
I do not wish them ill, only to have learned from their mistake.

Frosty
03-24-2008, 23:34
Minority? You bet.Don't be so sure you are in a minority. People usually assume that most folks do what they do. You know how trusting people are more likely to trust others, and distrustful people are suspicious of other's motives? It is possible that most of the people he knows smokes dope in non-smoking rooms, but that doesn't mean you are in a minority if you don't.

(And if you are in a minority, it's still the best sdie of the fence to be on in this area. All the talk about addicting or not addicting, lung damaging or not lung damaging, victimless and shouldn't be illegal and it's legal in most of the world yadda yadda yadda doesn't mean anything. The fact is that it IS illegal, and some penalties are huge and a conviction can be troublesome to your career. As long as you're of legal age and you don't toss the TV set out of the window or anything like that, you aren't going to be arrested because someone in the hall caught a whiff of Bud Light coming from your motel room.)

fiddlehead
03-25-2008, 04:09
In order to abide by the rules of whiteblaze, my lips are sealed.

Maybe the smoking is not the majority. but it happens. A lot!
I don't smoke pot. I have in the past. It is legal in some parts of the world.

this thread has been beaten to death. My point always has been that hotels are used and abused for more than just a good nights sleep and a shower. You guys attempting to bash the people that, well, i don't even know how many, what gender, or if they were thru-hikers, section hikers, kids or old timers as we never have been told much have we? Point is, you are bashing people without knowing what happened.

Can you honestly say you have kept all hotel rooms you've stayed in as clean as the average normal folks (southern, family men, good barbecuers,)
If the answer is yes, you are not hiking hard enough.

minnesotasmith
03-25-2008, 04:52
I hate to go against you LW but they have not found anything that links smoking pot to cancer.

http://www.well.com/user/woa/fspot.htm

Can marijuana cause cancer?
Marijuana smoke has been found to contain more cancer-causing agents than is found in tobacco smoke. Examination of human lung tissue that had been exposed to marijuana smoke over a long period of time in a laboratory showed cellular changes called metaplasia that are considered precancerous. In laboratory test, the tars from marijuana smoke have produced tumors when applied to animal skin. These studies suggest that it is likely that marijuana may cause cancer if used for a number of years.
================================================== ===
http://www.coolnurse.com/marijuana.htm


LONG-TERM EFFECTS:


Psychological dependence
Asthma
[Cancer of the lungs - as with anything smoked
Lowered sperm production & decreased sperm mobility
Immune system damage
There is some evidence of long-term memory damage from “prolonged use”.
===========================================
http://erj.ersjournals.com/cgi/content/abstract/31/2/280?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&fulltext=marijuana&andorexactfulltext=and&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&volume=31&resourcetype=HWCIT


The risk of lung cancer increased 8% (95% confidence interval (CI) 2–15) for each joint-yr of cannabis smoking, after adjustment for confounding variables including cigarette smoking, and 7% (95% CI 5–9) for each pack-yr of cigarette smoking, after adjustment for confounding variables including cannabis smoking. The highest tertile of cannabis use was associated with an increased risk of lung cancer (relative risk 5.7 (95% CI 1.5–21.6)), after adjustment for confounding variables including cigarette smoking.


In conclusion, the results of the present study indicate that long-term cannabis use increases the risk of lung cancer in young adults.

Ron Haven
03-25-2008, 06:08
Our whole nation is full of inconsiderate people in every walk of life.If you don't thinks just look around you.If not,gas wouldn't be $4 a gallon.:eek:

Lone Wolf
03-25-2008, 06:49
Can you honestly say you have kept all hotel rooms you've stayed in as clean as the average normal folks (southern, family men, good barbecuers,)
If the answer is yes, you are not hiking hard enough.

yeah, i leave motels very clean when i check out and hike a lot harder than most. i don't share rooms either

Jason of the Woods
03-25-2008, 07:32
The smoke not the marijuana its self. If only every state were able to consume the less harmful form like the 12 that allow it now. Then no one would be ill. I do think that you should read more. I have a feeling tht your article are outdated.:eek:
http://www.well.com/user/woa/fspot.htm

Can marijuana cause cancer?
Marijuana smoke has been found to contain more cancer-causing agents than is found in tobacco smoke. Examination of human lung tissue that had been exposed to marijuana smoke over a long period of time in a laboratory showed cellular changes called metaplasia that are considered precancerous. In laboratory test, the tars from marijuana smoke have produced tumors when applied to animal skin. These studies suggest that it is likely that marijuana may cause cancer if used for a number of years.
================================================== ===
http://www.coolnurse.com/marijuana.htm


LONG-TERM EFFECTS:


Psychological dependence
Asthma
[Cancer of the lungs - as with anything smoked
Lowered sperm production & decreased sperm mobility
Immune system damage
There is some evidence of long-term memory damage from “prolonged use”.
===========================================
http://erj.ersjournals.com/cgi/content/abstract/31/2/280?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&fulltext=marijuana&andorexactfulltext=and&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&volume=31&resourcetype=HWCIT


The risk of lung cancer increased 8% (95% confidence interval (CI) 2–15) for each joint-yr of cannabis smoking, after adjustment for confounding variables including cigarette smoking, and 7% (95% CI 5–9) for each pack-yr of cigarette smoking, after adjustment for confounding variables including cannabis smoking. The highest tertile of cannabis use was associated with an increased risk of lung cancer (relative risk 5.7 (95% CI 1.5–21.6)), after adjustment for confounding variables including cigarette smoking.


In conclusion, the results of the present study indicate that long-term cannabis use increases the risk of lung cancer in young adults.

Jason of the Woods
03-25-2008, 07:33
Show me what they have done thus far. What makes you think they will start now?
open your eyes! when you are talking about the trail, nature and the future of hiking and who has the most control and pull...the "corporate pigs" are the big picture!

geek

Newb
03-25-2008, 07:48
I'm concerned about the perception that middle aged men can't do laundry. I'm an excellent laundry stooge. I iron, too.

max patch
03-25-2008, 08:51
Can you honestly say you have kept all hotel rooms you've stayed in as clean as the average normal folks (southern, family men, good barbecuers,)
If the answer is yes, you are not hiking hard enough.

Thats BS.

Get your room, knock the mud of your shoes outside, take a shower, and don't lay in the bed in your dirty hiking clothes. Not too difficult.

Called consideration for the maid and the owner of the hotel.

Nearly Normal
03-25-2008, 09:06
Can you honestly say you have kept all hotel rooms you've stayed in as clean as the average normal folks (southern, family men, good barbecuers,)
If the answer is yes, you are not hiking hard enough.

Yes.
This doesn't mean you have to act like an animal just because you smell like one.

rafe
03-25-2008, 09:17
Our whole nation is full of inconsiderate people in every walk of life.If you don't thinks just look around you.If not,gas wouldn't be $4 a gallon.:eek:

$4 gas is due to "inconsiderate people" ? :-?

jhick
03-25-2008, 09:18
Yes.
This doesn't mean you have to act like an animal just because you smell like one.

HAHAHAHAHHAHA

MoodyBluer
03-25-2008, 09:23
yeah, i leave motels very clean when i check out and hike a lot harder than most. i don't share rooms either


Hmmm, "hike a lot harder"?

Hopefully that's a reference to being a finely tuned hiking machine, any more than that and I never want to see you on the trail...:D

Johnny Thunder
03-25-2008, 09:26
Bears, Beets, Battlestar Gallactica.

Lone Wolf
03-25-2008, 09:26
Hmmm, "hike a lot harder"?

Hopefully that's a reference to being a finely tuned hiking machine

correct

fiddlehead
03-25-2008, 10:08
Thats BS.

Get your room, knock the mud of your shoes outside, take a shower, and don't lay in the bed in your dirty hiking clothes. Not too difficult.

Called consideration for the maid and the owner of the hotel.

Call it what you like.

I've hiked with a lot of folks and seen their rooms (and smelled them) when they checked out. I've learned to do my best to keep them clean simply because i don't want future hikers banned. (we all need a hotel room from time to time)

I don't preach to these people, just try to show a good example in my room. Ever look at the shower when you finish? That scum on the walls is what i'm talkin about.
And i remember 2 hikers that i've hiked with who have blocked up the toilets because they eat more than they ever have. (including overflow of that toilet all over the bathroom)

And hikers tend to leave a LOT of trash in their rooms (sure you can try to find their dumpster and take care of that yourself, but not many do) . Especially when you are resupplying in towns without drop boxes.
Hikers tend to walk around with rainpants and smelly raingear cause their clothes are in the laundry. Don't you know that this bothers some people? Or when you bring your smelly pack into a room/restaurant/bar/ whatever. Unless you took it to the car wash lately. It stinks!

So, call my posts BS. I don't really care. But don't try to convince me that most hikers are the same as your average hotel customer. I've seen them.

Blissful
03-25-2008, 11:31
Sometimes I had to leave a good amount of garbage. But I made sure it was in plastic bags of some sort (left over from shopping) tied and stacked by the receptacle. All I could think about was the hikers coming before and after me - making a good impression at where you stay reflects on the hiking community. We run into problems when the hike becomes only some self centered thing and you neglect to consider others on your journey.

Nearly Normal
03-25-2008, 11:36
And i remember 2 hikers that i've hiked with who have blocked up the toilets because they eat more than they ever have. (including overflow of that toilet all over the bathroom)

Sounds like a dumbass to me.

Gray Blazer
03-25-2008, 12:48
Our whole nation is full of inconsiderate people in every walk of life.If you don't thinks just look around you.If not,gas wouldn't be $4 a gallon.:eek:
That is pretty inconsiderate. Speaking of considerate, have a good time at Ron's Bash. Wish I could go. See you some time, Ron. Say hi to the wife and kids.

Frosty
03-25-2008, 13:03
My point always has been that hotels are used and abused for more than just a good nights sleep and a shower.Our point is that just because people abuse hotels catering to hikers does not make it right, and if possible we should do what we can to prevent losing more trail services.

Self-policing is the only way we can do this. To just sit back as do as you suggest, to say nothing because it happens all the time, is just wrong. The more it happens, the more it needs to be brought to light.

The best way to get the message across is by getting the message out.

IMO, it is wrong to say nothing when this occurs, and worse to condone it.

I'm not overfond of this phrase, but I think it applies to Endangered Services: If you aren't part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

max patch
03-25-2008, 13:15
IMO, it is wrong to say nothing when this occurs, and worse to condone it.

I'm not overfond of this phrase, but I think it applies to Endangered Services: If you aren't part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

You are absolutely correct.

When a fellow hiker misbehaves we need to call them on it.

Its easy to ignore misbehavior and inappropriate conduct. Live and let live. HYOH and all that. I know I said nothing on several occasions when fellow hikers drank or brought their dogs inside hostels against the clearly stated house rules.

I finally spoke up when a fellow thru bought a 6 pack and was drinking it in the sanctuary of the church in Hanover which used to provide a free hostel. It was common knowledge the pastor was feeling "used and abused" and that it was possible we would lose this service. Which we did.

JAK
03-25-2008, 13:17
If people don't want to come out to the ballpark, you can't stop them.

Jason of the Woods
03-25-2008, 14:11
Blah, Blah, and Blah. I am sorry all. I just had to get that out of my system. Now someone is saying that we shouldn't use the trash cans in hotel rooms because they might have to be emptied?

I give up. It'll all you guys.

turtle fast
03-25-2008, 14:23
Now thanks to some dopers, I have to pay full price to stay at the Holiday INN Express in Hiawassee when I go thru in a few weeks with my wife on our thru....why do I have an extreme urge to find the idiots and have a cartoon style mallet with me... Really I can not to say that I can't afford the extra bucks but the discount means to me "thank you for your business...Welcome" and accordingly the savings can be spent in other town venues to spread the 'wealth' around...now due to inconsideration of others not only I but other future hikers get "penalized" for it.....I feel a possie coming along....

Appalachian Tater
03-25-2008, 14:31
Blah, Blah, and Blah. I am sorry all. I just had to get that out of my system. Now someone is saying that we shouldn't use the trash cans in hotel rooms because they might have to be emptied?

I give up. It'll all you guys.I have always been shocked at seeing the condition in which people leave hotel rooms, hikers or not. Many people don't bother to put their garbage in the can and just expect the maid to pick everything up. I don't see any problem with leaving a lot of trash as long as it is in the can or bagged. That is certainly expected and I bet the maid appreciates having it contained and never thinks about the fact that it is there. I'm sure the dirty bathtub doesn't make them happy but that is expected as well.

Jason of the Woods
03-25-2008, 14:37
That's where I'm at too. I just did think that I needed to say that. To me that's common sense. That's why I gave up. In like a few more days I'll be one of those dirty hikers and yes, I too would have appreciated a discount coming through town but I'm sure not going to get all worked up and let it spoil my experience on the trail. Maybe in a few years when I'm back through they will lower the rate again and I will stay with them. For now though, I'm just gonna go hike.;)

Phreak
03-25-2008, 14:45
For now though, I'm just gonna go hike.;)

A lot of people on here should do the same. :D

turtle fast
03-25-2008, 14:48
Hopefully they realize that this incident does not typify the majority of hikers and that 'respectable' hikers no matter how dirty can be....be considerate and respectable people and hopefully the Welcome sign comes back out for us hikers....otherwise I have to claim another discount. Yes I am a pilot and I fly for Northface Airlines....

Jason of the Woods
03-25-2008, 14:53
Yep! You got it!:D
A lot of people on here should do the same. :D

JAK
03-25-2008, 15:06
I got out on Monday for 10 miles with Margaret. It was very nice.

Jason of the Woods
03-25-2008, 15:32
Good for you JAK. It's been a couple of days for me but soon it will be nonstop for a bit.:)

Skyline
03-25-2008, 16:00
Since we are talking about hotels, and the maids that clean hotel rooms, I was wondering how much of a tip do y'all think it is appropriate to leave on the desk or nightstand when you vacate the premises?

Maids being notoriously underpaid almost as much as waitresses, and all . . .

Jason of the Woods
03-25-2008, 16:08
You can believe me or not but if I am there more than one night or if I leave a room dirty, like while backpaking. I usually leave money for them. The amount kind of depends on the cleanliness of my room. That's kind of the same principal for tipping in resturaunts for me, only qulity of service.
Since we are talking about hotels, and the maids that clean hotel rooms, I was wondering how much of a tip do y'all think it is appropriate to leave on the desk or nightstand when you vacate the premises?

Maids being notoriously underpaid almost as much as waitresses, and all . . .

Tin Man
03-25-2008, 16:17
Since we are talking about hotels, and the maids that clean hotel rooms, I was wondering how much of a tip do y'all think it is appropriate to leave on the desk or nightstand when you vacate the premises?

Maids being notoriously underpaid almost as much as waitresses, and all . . .

$2-$5 (depending on motel, mess, number staying, etc.) daily, not on checkout, because you don't know their schedule. If you are staying multiple nights, they may leave you extra towels or do another kindness if you tip daily.

Re: Trash, if I have more trash than fits in the small trash cans, I take it out to the dumpster myself. No biggee.

Hooch
03-25-2008, 16:46
For now......I'm just gonna go hike.;)


A lot of people on here should do the same. :DGood plan. Hitting Red River Gorge this weekend for 2 or 3 nights. Yay! :banana

Jason of the Woods
03-25-2008, 16:51
Enjoy man. We are on Springer on the 4th. I'm like a schoolgirl with a crush!

We were in the Gorge for about 10 days about a week ago and you can smell the spring. It was awesome. That was our first trip out of the last 8ish that I went short sleeved. :)
Good plan. Hitting Red River Gorge this weekend for 2 or 3 nights. Yay! :banana

Hooch
03-25-2008, 16:53
Enjoy man. We are on Springer on the 4th. I'm like a schoolgirl with a crush!

We were in the Gorge for about 10 days about a week ago and you can smell the spring. It was awesome. That was our first trip out of the last 8ish that I went short sleeved. :)Cool....planning on hitting the Sheltowee Trace/Rough Trail/Gray's arch area........any other suggestions?

Jason of the Woods
03-25-2008, 16:57
Rough trail is hands down my favorite trail there. I would start north on the Sheltowee, maybe up off of 77, hike down into the Rough Trail and make the loop of your choice. It was awesome!

Skyline
03-25-2008, 17:12
$2-$5 (depending on motel, mess, number staying, etc.) daily, not on checkout, because you don't know their schedule. If you are staying multiple nights, they may leave you extra towels or do another kindness if you tip daily.

Re: Trash, if I have more trash than fits in the small trash cans, I take it out to the dumpster myself. No biggee.


Yeah, that's about what I leave. Typically most of my coins, and at least two dollar bills. More for multi-day stays. If the maid did anything above and beyond, or I leave a worse mess than the typical traveler, then I leave more.

I've left money on the desk in the middle of a multi-day stay before, but it was never taken by the maid. Even if left in the envelope provided. So I just leave it the morning of checkout.

Jack Tarlin
03-25-2008, 17:20
Glad to see that some people actually tip the motel folks......most hikers don't. And it should be pointed out that larger groups leave a bigger mess; hikers that share a room with a bunch of friends should ALL pony up a few bucks. This is one of the things that really cuts down on staff complaints and helps keep motels hiker-friendly.

Appalachian Tater
03-25-2008, 17:24
Re: Trash, if I have more trash than fits in the small trash cans, I take it out to the dumpster myself. No biggee.Which is very nice of you. Frequently, if you fill up a trash can, you will find another bag placed under the liner.

Jaybird62
03-25-2008, 18:11
Treat other peoples property as you would treat your own (this holds true for most folks.

Tin Man
03-25-2008, 18:36
Which is very nice of you. Frequently, if you fill up a trash can, you will find another bag placed under the liner.

I am not convinced I am so nice - more trash usually means more smell. ;)

Tin Man
03-25-2008, 18:39
Yeah, that's about what I leave. Typically most of my coins, and at least two dollar bills. More for multi-day stays. If the maid did anything above and beyond, or I leave a worse mess than the typical traveler, then I leave more.

I've left money on the desk in the middle of a multi-day stay before, but it was never taken by the maid. Even if left in the envelope provided. So I just leave it the morning of checkout.

On multi-night stays, leave the tip by the sink in a soap dish or between any extra bottles of shampoo or wash clothes. They will take the hint.

Skidsteer
03-25-2008, 19:05
-------------------------

fiddlehead
03-25-2008, 20:49
Our point is that just because people abuse hotels catering to hikers does not make it right, and if possible we should do what we can to prevent losing more trail services.

Self-policing is the only way we can do this. To just sit back as do as you suggest, to say nothing because it happens all the time, is just wrong. The more it happens, the more it needs to be brought to light.

The best way to get the message across is by getting the message out.

IMO, it is wrong to say nothing when this occurs, and worse to condone it.

I'm not overfond of this phrase, but I think it applies to Endangered Services: If you aren't part of the solution, you are part of the problem.


So, you are telling me to not only go thru life the same way you do, but to also insist that others do the same.
Yeah right.
Not my style.
I try to set a good example and leave the rest to each individual.

My morals are my morals. Your's are your's.

ps. you and match patch need to share a room! :)

Sly
03-27-2008, 16:53
Well, something pretty serious must have happened. We look forward to hearing the details from someone else who knows first hand, the HIE itself, or the hikers themselves.



I just hiked south from Franklin to Hiawassee and speaking with several hikers that stayed at HIE it appears they're still giving hiker discounts. Someone needs to get their story straight.

Jason of the Woods
03-27-2008, 16:58
Ha! This kills me. I'm gonna go hike now. See you all in a month or so.:banana
I just hiked south from Franklin to Hiawassee and speaking with several hikers that stayed at HIE it appears they're still giving hiker discounts. Someone needs to get their story straight.

max patch
03-27-2008, 16:59
ps. you and match patch need to share a room! :)

I don't share hotel rooms.

emerald
03-27-2008, 17:15
I'm gonna go hike now. See you all in a month or so.:banana

You'd better hurry. HIE might change their rates before you get there. Might be some idiots ahead of you, you know?;)

Are you sure you have saved enough $ for your hike? There are more idiots rather than less in the world every day.

A-Train
03-27-2008, 18:07
I just hiked south from Franklin to Hiawassee and speaking with several hikers that stayed at HIE it appears they're still giving hiker discounts. Someone needs to get their story straight.

Ahhh rumors, the things WB threads are made of (or from). 300+ posts for nothin' although we did lay down some nice ground rules/ethics for how a hiker should act in town:)

Jaybird62
03-27-2008, 18:16
Ahhh rumors, the things WB threads are made of (or from). 300+ posts for nothin' although we did lay down some nice ground rules/ethics for how a hiker should act in town:)
A little preventitive maintenance is always a good thing:sun

Mother's Finest
03-27-2008, 18:56
Smoking Pot in a Hotel Room???? Are you kidding me? And it was non-smoking as well?

That must happen, almost never? And hikers doing it? I mean average citizens never would do THAT.

Damned hippy hikers. Probably have guns in their packs too.

peace
mf

smokymtnsteve
03-27-2008, 19:16
I wouldn't smoke in a non-smoking room...however the Alaska railroad does allow smoking between the last couple of cars,,so I must admit I DID use that smoking area.

Lone Wolf
03-27-2008, 19:45
Smoking Pot in a Hotel Room???? Are you kidding me? And it was non-smoking as well?

That must happen, almost never? And hikers doing it? I mean average citizens never would do THAT.

Damned hippy hikers. Probably have guns in their packs too.

peace
mf

if you think it's cool to do do so, then you're a POS too. welcome to the world of dumb****s

Yahtzee
03-27-2008, 20:43
I'd pay the going rate for that Holiday Inn. Their hiker box is worth the room alone.

Jason of the Woods
03-27-2008, 22:00
There are idiots everywhere and yes, they usually are ahead of me.;) Happy hiking to all and if you pass me on the trail say hi!;)
You'd better hurry. They might change their rates before you get there. Might be some idiots ahead of you, you know?;)

minnesotasmith
03-28-2008, 01:36
I don't share hotel rooms.

The woman in your life, a decades-long close friend, or an immediate family member?

max patch
03-28-2008, 09:49
The woman in your life, a decades-long close friend, or an immediate family member?

Wife, kids, and parents.

Skyline
03-28-2008, 10:08
I just hiked south from Franklin to Hiawassee and speaking with several hikers that stayed at HIE it appears they're still giving hiker discounts. Someone needs to get their story straight.


That is great news!

Perhaps a few positive words prompted by this thread changed their minds about hikers, or maybe it was all a troll. Do we know?

max patch
03-28-2008, 10:27
That is great news!

Perhaps a few positive words prompted by this thread changed their minds about hikers, or maybe it was all a troll. Do we know?

Not a troll.

Info was originally posted to at-l by Felix (former thru who used to write for the ATC) who passed on info given to him by a couple friends who were hiking and who had stayed at the HIE.

Jack Tarlin
03-28-2008, 11:06
Um, why doesn't someone simply CALL the motel and ask them if they still offer a hiker discount rate.

That would seem to settle this matter once and for all.

If they still offer a discount, then this whole story is nonsense.....or they've evidently had a change of heart and changed their minds about ending the discount.

And if they no longer offer a discount, then it'd be pretty simple to find out why this is so.

But arguing over this is sort of silly. Anyone who really cares can end this discussion with a two-minute phone call. The number is 1 - (706) 896-8884.

Nearly Normal
03-29-2008, 17:08
I'd pay the going rate for that Holiday Inn. Their hiker box is worth the room alone.

You will now.
The hiker rate was ruined by the inconsiderate.

mudhead
03-30-2008, 20:23
You need to change your user name to Richard Swiss.

Jack Tarlin
04-04-2008, 14:17
Just wanted to point out a few things....

Any number of things that have been said on this thread are untrue. Here's the scoop on the Holiday Inn in Hiawassee:

According to management of the Hotel:


*There is no longer a special discount rate for hikers, tho there was for
many years.

*The reports of the discount being discontinued because of problems with
hikers, regrettably, is true. Among the complaints specifically listed were
repeated cases of theft of services (i.e. hikers sneaking non-paying friends
into their rooms) and dis-respect of the property (i.e trashed rooms). The
change in policy was not due to any one particular recent incident, but had
been some time in the making.

*Rooms are now $79.00 plus tax (for one or two people; each additional
person is $6.00.

*Contrary to what several folks have stated or implied on this thread, the
hotel is still extremely hiker-friendly and welcomes hiker guests; they simply
don't care to be defrauded by hikers anymore, and they're tired of getting
complaints from their housekeping staff about the extra work and
unpleasantness involved in cleaning up after thoughtless hiker guests.



As a a final comment, I just want to say that while the room is pricey when
compared to other places in Hiawasse, it is by far the nicest place to stay
and if one splits the room with a friend or two, is a very good deal for what
you're paying. The rooms are large and spotless; laundry is cheap ($2.00
for wash/dry; detergent is free); there is Internet access; there's a pool and
spa; there's a fleet of bikes to get around town. They've also greatly up-
graded the breakfast; it's no longer "Continental". When I was there, it
included coffee, juice and milk; cereals; pastries; bagel, english muffins, and
toast; cream cheese and peanut butter; eggs, bacon, sausage, biscuits
and gravy, and probably some things I'm forgetting. This meal would cost
ten bucks or more if you ate out somewhere.

In short, while it's a pity that the place no longer offers a "special" rate for
hikers, it's still a fine place to stay when you're in Hiawassee. We should
also remember that there's an object leson here: Dis-respecting local
businesses and using services without paying for them has consequences for
everyone, particularly the hikers who will be coming along AFTER you've
visited a place. Hikers need to pay attention to their own behavior, and
that of their friends, or there will be consequences for everyone. In this
case, a business that has catered to hikers for years is still happily doing so,
but now, unfortunately, it costs more.

solace
04-04-2008, 14:34
yeah, def lving a TIP is usually the right thing to do.. even though thru-hikers are on a budget, the housemaids dont live on the AT, they still have jobs, and we should still show our grattitude.

Sly
04-04-2008, 14:43
Thanks Jack.

Any idea what the hiker rate was before? IIRC it was about $50 in '00 the last time I stayed but I'm sure it's probably gone up.

Regardless, it's pretty poor when hikers can't even pay $6 to stay in a room or leave the place trashed, use towels to clean muddy gear, etc, etc.

Jack Tarlin
04-04-2008, 14:49
Not $100% sure but I think I paid $59.00 plus tax the last time I was there. In the hotel's favor, by the way, the manager said this was the first significant rate increase in eight years.

Sly
04-04-2008, 15:03
Not $100% sure but I think I paid $59.00 plus tax the last time I was there. In the hotel's favor, by the way, the manager said this was the first significant rate increase in eight years.

Thanks. It's too bad, especially for the solo hiker that gets a room and respects others property.

wakapak
04-04-2008, 15:07
Thanks. It's too bad, especially for the solo hiker that gets a room and respects others property.

I agree, and that's kind of what i was talking about when i referred to the whole respect thing on the thread about The Place....it all boils down to respect IMO.

Sly
04-04-2008, 15:10
....it all boils down to respect IMO.

Yeah, and not growing up listening to Aretha Franklin (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xALiBgzPzE)! ;)

Appalachian Tater
04-04-2008, 15:11
The indoor pool was nice, but the hot whirlpool is what my aching body really needed when I got there. The Holiday Inn in Erwin has one, too.

wakapak
04-04-2008, 15:12
Yeah, and not growing up listening to Aretha Franklin! ;)

LOL!! :p

A-Train
04-04-2008, 15:13
My group of 4 payed 80 bucks in 03'.

92 bucks for 4 people is extremely reasonable for a nice motel/hotel that offers breakfast, internet, etc.

Anyone who thinks otherwise should never step foot out on the PCT!:)

A-Train
04-04-2008, 15:14
My group of 4 payed 80 bucks in 03'.

92 bucks for 4 people is extremely reasonable for a nice motel/hotel that offers breakfast, internet, etc.

Anyone who thinks otherwise should never step foot out on the PCT!:)


We also paid 80 bucks. Yikes, long week.

Jack Tarlin
04-04-2008, 15:15
In addition to a lack of respect, it also has to do with hiker attitudes, particularly (but certainly not exclusively) younger hikers.

In the past, when I've personally commented on hikers sneaking people into their room, or partying too loudly, or breaking motel rules, etc., I've essentially been told to mind my own business.

This will change when hikers start paying more attention to their friends and their friends' behavior. You can't expect people to clean up their own act....they need to be reminded of when they're screwing up, and they need to be reminded publicly.

Which is why if I see someone engaging is assholic behavior in town I'm gona say something; if I see people defending this behavior on the Internet or elsewhere, or pretending that rules and regulations don't apply to them, then I'll say something.

And so should everyone else.

If you're not part of ther solution, then you're only helping out with the problem.

saimyoji
04-04-2008, 15:16
again...i blame their parents

Skyline
04-04-2008, 15:17
Thanks Jack.

Any idea what the hiker rate was before? IIRC it was about $50 in '00 the last time I stayed but I'm sure it's probably gone up.

Regardless, it's pretty poor when hikers can't even pay $6 to stay in a room or leave the place trashed, use towels to clean muddy gear, etc, etc.


The Companion quotes a rate of $99 double "hiker special," $6 EAP.

AT Pages quotes $59 S/D, $5 EAP Jan.-Mar.; $69-$79 S/D Apr.-Dec.

Handbook quotes $59 S/D, $5 EAP; $20 higher after May 15.

wakapak
04-04-2008, 15:22
In addition to a lack of respect, it also has to do with hiker attitudes, particularly (but certainly not exclusively) younger hikers.

In the past, when I've personally commented on hikers sneaking people into their room, or partying too loudly, or breaking motel rules, etc., I've essentially been told to mind my own business.

This will change when hikers start paying more attention to their friends and their friends' behavior. You can't expect people to clean up their own act....they need to be reminded of when they're screwing up, and they need to be reminded publicly.

Which is why if I see someone engaging is assholic behavior in town I'm gona say something; if I see people defending this behavior on the Internet or elsewhere, or pretending that rules and regulations don't apply to them, then I'll say something.

And so should everyone else.

If you're not part of ther solution, then you're only helping out with the problem.

yeah, i agree with that...i've definitey noticed a difference from the first time i was out there about 9 or 10 yrs ago...i was part of the younger crowd then, but i always made sure to clean up after myself, etc! I did see some acting like arses in towns, for the most part though, those were ones i opted to stay away from, or hike away from!

Like i've said on another thread, i've seen some good hostels close down due to the behaviors of hikers, and it seems as though other places are threatened to either close, or raise prices, etc. It's too bad really! It's not so hard to follow simple rules posted from those are being gracious and helping out when they dont have to at all.

Jack Tarlin
04-04-2008, 15:23
And the 2008 Handbook says "$59S/D"

All I know is what the manager just told me personally, which is presumably more accurate than info printed in a trail guide.

boarstone
04-04-2008, 15:35
this business obviously did not know much about hikers... what is so bad about smoke in a room?


Maybe because they we in a NON-SMOKING room...hello!

Appalachian Tater
04-04-2008, 15:40
Rates are slightly lower than $79 if you book ahead online. Also wouldn't hurt to call the hotel ahead of time and see what kind of a deal they can offer.

Appalachian Tater
04-04-2008, 15:42
Maybe because they we in a NON-SMOKING room...hello!The solution to this particular problem is simple. They should install two smoking lounges, one for tobacco and one for marijuana.

Jack Tarlin
04-04-2008, 16:35
Gosh, Tater, the town's one step ahead of you.

There's already a well-established place where recreational users of illegal narcotics can relax and lounge while in Hiawassee.

It's called "jail."

saimyoji
04-04-2008, 16:37
The solution to this particular problem is simple. They should install two smoking lounges, one for tobacco and one for marijuana.

It already exists....IN THE WOODS.

smokymtnsteve
04-04-2008, 17:00
Gosh, Tater, the town's one step ahead of you.

There's already a well-established place where recreational users of illegal narcotics can relax and lounge while in Hiawassee.

It's called "jail."


MJ is NOT a narcotic

Lone Wolf
04-04-2008, 22:14
MJ is NOT a narcotic

but you're addicted, incredibly, to it. it's your world. abbey would not approve

Bulldawg
04-04-2008, 22:37
In addition to a lack of respect, it also has to do with hiker attitudes, particularly (but certainly not exclusively) younger hikers.

In the past, when I've personally commented on hikers sneaking people into their room, or partying too loudly, or breaking motel rules, etc., I've essentially been told to mind my own business.

This will change when hikers start paying more attention to their friends and their friends' behavior. You can't expect people to clean up their own act....they need to be reminded of when they're screwing up, and they need to be reminded publicly.

Which is why if I see someone engaging is assholic behavior in town I'm gona say something; if I see people defending this behavior on the Internet or elsewhere, or pretending that rules and regulations don't apply to them, then I'll say something.

And so should everyone else.

If you're not part of ther solution, then you're only helping out with the problem.

Jack, I totally agree!! I picked up two female hikers this afternoon at Dick's Creek while on my way to Hiawassee. We rescued them just minutes before a tremendous thunderstorm set in. I couldn't offer them anything more than the back of my pickup, but they were happy to have it as their ride into town. When I dropped them at the HIE, I told them what I had read on here and warned them that some disrespectful hikers in front of them had caused the problems. I never told them how they should act, as it is not my place I think, but a warning in my thoughts was enough preaching from me.

By the way, since it was raining cats and dogs, I didn't get to talk to these ladies much, if anyone has any ideas of who they were, I'd appreciate the heads up.

warren doyle
04-07-2008, 13:04
There are nice, free campsites on either side of Dicks Creek Gap.

Four hikers were asked to leave for smoking pot outside at Uncle Johnny's just recently.

There are also nice, free campsites on either side of Erwin.

shuffle
04-07-2008, 13:25
Well I for one cannot understand why someone who rents a non smoking room would think of smoking in it. There are those of us who hae asthma and cannot stay in a motel room that has been smoked in. It sends me into an attack and by the end of an hour in there I can't breath. So if you want to smoke, go ahead, but do not make it bad for those of us who don't. I hear smokers complain about their rights but we who do not smoke have a right to breath clean air and not their smoke. I do not care if people smoke, just if they smoke so that I have to breath it in. I usually just move and if asked why I tell them I can't breath the smoke because of the asthma. Most people are nice about it and don't smoke where I can breath it. Some do it anyway just because they can and I end up moving, which is ok. I don't mind. I would never ask them to move. When I rent a motel room I have to make sure it has not been smoked in. And if I am paying for a non smoking room, then I should get it. The pot issue is a whole other issue. It is very disturbing that people hae to ruin it for those of us who do not behave in that manner. It may have not been much of a discount, but it was one nevertherless. It seems this is happening more and more.

emerald
04-07-2008, 13:59
As someone who appreciates alliteration (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alliteration), I just wanted to point out this thread has one of the best WB titles ever. Compliments to the thread's author and long may it live. Its 1st word should have been spelled out, however.:eek:

Rain Man
04-07-2008, 15:00
Well I for one cannot understand why someone who rents a non smoking room would think of smoking in it...

I agree with you. It's an ego-centricity, that they are above all laws and rules of courtesy. It's just another facet of the "Me, me, ME!!!" attitude some hikers have, who think they are the center of the universe and rules are for lesser beings.

Whether it's smoking in a non-smoking room, taking a handgun on the AT illegally, letting a dog run off a lease where it's against the rules, or consuming alcohol where it's against the rules. Those hikers might be the royalty of rationalization, but it all boils down to the same thing.

It's all the same "ME" attitude. Sad, for sure. They can't "understand" anyone else.

Rain Man

.

sofaking
04-07-2008, 15:24
I agree with you. It's an ego-centricity, that they are above all laws and rules of courtesy. It's just another facet of the "Me, me, ME!!!" attitude some hikers have, who think they are the center of the universe and rules are for lesser beings.

Whether it's smoking in a non-smoking room, taking a handgun on the AT illegally, letting a dog run off a lease where it's against the rules, or consuming alcohol where it's against the rules. Those hikers might be the royalty of rationalization, but it all boils down to the same thing.

It's all the same "ME" attitude. Sad, for sure. They can't "understand" anyone else.

Rain Man

.
what is a 'maine maine maine' attitude?

emerald
04-07-2008, 15:56
what is a 'maine maine maine' attitude?

It's what gets hardcore hikers to Maine. They don't have time to hang out in towns and cause problems -- they've got more important business.

A "Me, me, ME!!!" attitude is something altogether different. Read the post again. It's pretty clear.

A-Train
04-07-2008, 16:46
It's what gets hardcore hikers to Maine. They don't have time to hang out in towns and cause problems -- they've got more important business.

A "Me, me, ME!!!" attitude is something altogether different. Read the post again. It's pretty clear.

Good post Shades. Thru-hikers catch an extradionare amount of grief from many folks on this site, getting lumped in as unfriendly, mile-hungry, young party animals who are inconsiderate and unaware of their impact on the trail community.

Most of the time, the few A-hole's we hear about give the rest of us a bad name. The problems are always magnified, the positives goes mostly unmentioned.

Appalachian Tater
04-07-2008, 17:10
As someone who appreciates alliteration (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alliteration), I just wanted to point out this thread has one of the best WB titles ever. Compliments to the thread's author and long may it live. Its 1st word should have been spelled out, however.:eek:There are a lot of alliterate people on teh internet!

SGT Rock
04-07-2008, 17:31
There are nice, free campsites on either side of Dicks Creek Gap.

Four hikers were asked to leave for smoking pot outside at Uncle Johnny's just recently.

There are also nice, free campsites on either side of Erwin.

After meeting the guys at Uncle Johnny's and staying there I imagine these guys probably had to do more than just smoke some pot. The folks at Uncle Johnny's seemed to have a lot of tolerance.

smokymtnsteve
04-07-2008, 19:27
After meeting the guys at Uncle Johnny's and staying there I imagine these guys probably had to do more than just smoke some pot. The folks at Uncle Johnny's seemed to have a lot of tolerance.

I agree..probably they didn't share!

Dances with Mice
04-07-2008, 19:55
There are nice, free campsites on either side of Dicks Creek Gap. Four hikers were asked to leave for smoking pot outside at Uncle Johnny's just recently. There are also nice, free campsites on either side of Erwin.Give props when due. Mr. Doyle nailed it.

Appalachian Tater
04-07-2008, 19:58
Give props when due. Mr. Doyle nailed it.
What did he nail? Starting vague rumors about something that might or might not have happened at "Uncle" Johnny's involving four un-named hikers or discovering that there are free campsites up and down the Appalachian Trail?

whitefoot_hp
04-07-2008, 20:34
I agree with you. It's an ego-centricity, that they are above all laws and rules of courtesy. It's just another facet of the "Me, me, ME!!!" attitude some hikers have, who think they are the center of the universe and rules are for lesser beings.

Whether it's smoking in a non-smoking room, taking a handgun on the AT illegally, letting a dog run off a lease where it's against the rules, or consuming alcohol where it's against the rules. Those hikers might be the royalty of rationalization, but it all boils down to the same thing.

It's all the same "ME" attitude. Sad, for sure. They can't "understand" anyone else.

Rain Man

.

yet we live in a society where the economic system is based on the theories of a man who argued that everyone pursues their own self interest and things all work out! see where such an attitude might come from?? Modern america is a factory of the me attitude. Fight the problem, not the symptoms, that is if you really want to make a difference. Rubbing cream on the poison ivy is useless when you live in poison ivy.

in a society where greed is the primary motivator of activity, its no wonder people take the ' me and my own' type of road.

Two Speed
04-07-2008, 20:40
What did he nail? Starting vague rumors about something that might or might not have happened at "Uncle" Johnny's involving four un-named hikers or discovering that there are free campsites up and down the Appalachian Trail?Noooo, for pointing out there is lots of good camping along the Appalachian Trail. Shocking, isn't it?

warren doyle
04-08-2008, 00:06
What did he nail? Starting vague rumors about something that might or might not have happened at "Uncle" Johnny's involving four un-named hikers or discovering that there are free campsites up and down the Appalachian Trail?

Not a rumor. It actually happened.

I have no reason or motivation to post fabricated stories.

Frosty
04-08-2008, 00:29
yet we live in a society where the economic system is based on the theories of a man who argued that everyone pursues their own self interest and things all work out! see where such an attitude might come from?? Modern america is a factory of the me attitude. Fight the problem, not the symptoms, that is if you really want to make a difference. Rubbing cream on the poison ivy is useless when you live in poison ivy.

in a society where greed is the primary motivator of activity, its no wonder people take the ' me and my own' type of road.It's a copout to say I'm going to be a me-first insensitive jerk because corporations are greedy. You control who you are. You can be a me-first punk if you want, but at leave be person enough to take responsibility for who you are.

Better yet, rather than support greedy corporations by emulating their behavior and trying to be like them, be the opposite. Be a generous, caring person sensitive to the needs of others while walking your own path.

Frosty
04-08-2008, 00:32
What did he nail? People have been bemoaning the fact that hostels close and rates go up, and he pointed out that there camping is free. Sort of like not seeing the forest for the trees.

Appalachian Tater
04-08-2008, 00:35
Not a rumor. It actually happened.

I have no reason or motivation to post fabricated stories.

http://media.urbandictionary.com/image/large/lol-47983.jpg

Appalachian Tater
04-08-2008, 00:46
Noooo, for pointing out there is lots of good camping along the Appalachian Trail. Shocking, isn't it?Umm, Doyle was the one always bleating about the great injustice of leaving "Uncle" Johnny's out of the guidebooks.

Rain Man
04-08-2008, 12:22
yet we live in a society where the economic system is based on the theories of a man who argued that everyone pursues their own self interest and things all work out!

Sorry, but the operative word is "was" based on. You need to catch up on a few centuries of economic theory.

A good start might be watching the "beautiful girl in the bar" scene from the movie "A Beautiful Mind."

Rain:sunMan

.

Mother's Finest
04-08-2008, 13:21
This whole issue actually has nothing to do with smoking pot or tobacco.

the issue is about irresponsible behavior.

I promise that when I leave a hotel room, non-smoking or not, no-one is going to know that I was there, except the maid because of the tip.

peace
mf

twosticks
04-08-2008, 15:54
I have always been shocked at seeing the condition in which people leave hotel rooms, hikers or not. Many people don't bother to put their garbage in the can and just expect the maid to pick everything up. I don't see any problem with leaving a lot of trash as long as it is in the can or bagged. That is certainly expected and I bet the maid appreciates having it contained and never thinks about the fact that it is there. I'm sure the dirty bathtub doesn't make them happy but that is expected as well.

I was smoking a cigarette in a bar in Paris and I asked the bartender where I should put my butts. He said throw it on the floor. I looked at him a bit incredulously, and he said "Hey, it gives someone a job".

mudhead
04-08-2008, 16:17
Who? The firemen?

Tin Man
04-08-2008, 18:35
Unemployment in France is the vicinity of 8%.

sofaking
04-08-2008, 18:42
people are allowed to bring their dogs into restaurants in france...paris was becoming so dog friendly that they had to spend millions to have the city poop scooped before they could seriously be considered as an olympics host...

Appalachian Tater
04-08-2008, 18:53
Unemployment in France is the vicinity of 8%.That's with more than two weeks of national holidays and five weeks vacation and four months of parental leave for births. Imagine what their unemployment rate would be if they didn't have all that. These benefits must account for at least a 6% or 7% reduction in productivity compared to here.

Then you have their 35 hour work-week, which is another 12% or so reduction.

Mother's Finest
04-08-2008, 19:33
full employment is not possible under capitalism, nor is it desirable.

peace
mf

Ron Haven
04-08-2008, 21:08
Thanks Jack.

Any idea what the hiker rate was before? IIRC it was about $50 in '00 the last time I stayed but I'm sure it's probably gone up.

Regardless, it's pretty poor when hikers can't even pay $6 to stay in a room or leave the place trashed, use towels to clean muddy gear, etc, etc.Fellows there are many good people on the trail year after year.It don't matter how good you are to some though it is just in them to lye,steal,be destructive and cause damage.
I rent rooms to hikers dirt cheep.I have them washing their muddy boots in my sinks stopping them up and costing the price of more than a nights rent to unstop them at times.Many can't stand it without steeling the towels or ruining them.
This year I have had a record number of mattress pads and sheets ruined with women on the rag to nasty and inconsiderate to use a tampon or kotex.And trash,I think they save it all off the trail to throw in a motel floor.But there are so many great people I don't have the heart to have hard feelings toward all for this.

Rain Man
04-08-2008, 21:08
Then you have their 35 hour work-week....

I do believe you be woefully out-of-date. Some of you posters need to keep up with modern history just a tad more, if I'm not mistaken.

Rain:sunMan

.

sofaking
04-08-2008, 21:19
paris is full of dog sh1t, non? or oui oui?

Tin Man
04-08-2008, 21:38
That's with more than two weeks of national holidays and five weeks vacation and four months of parental leave for births. Imagine what their unemployment rate would be if they didn't have all that. These benefits must account for at least a 6% or 7% reduction in productivity compared to here.

Then you have their 35 hour work-week, which is another 12% or so reduction.

Actually, productivity is worse than the 5-6 weeks vacation may lead one to believe. One group of office workers takes July-August and another group takes August-September, leaving half a staff for July-September. They just keep things running during this period. No decisions are made and very little is accomplished. Yet they still manage to own and operate a large number of companies in the U.S. and around the globe.

Um, how did we get on this topic? Never mind.

Tin Man
04-08-2008, 21:42
I do believe you be woefully out-of-date. Some of you posters need to keep up with modern history just a tad more, if I'm not mistaken.

Rain:sunMan

.

Companies are now allowed to assign workers overtime hours, over 35, if they pay them for the overtime. Previous to the 2005 law they did not have the option.

Dances with Mice
04-08-2008, 21:43
paris is full of dog sh1t, non? or oui oui?Non. The rats eat it.

Yahtzee
04-08-2008, 23:18
So, this is why we never see French thruhikers? Their 35 hour work week doesn't translate into a successful thruhike. My god, they'd take month of zeros at Harper's Ferry. So it's settled. No more French people in Hiawassee.

Glad we got this cleared up.

A-Train
04-08-2008, 23:42
So, this is why we never see French thruhikers? Their 35 hour work week doesn't translate into a successful thruhike. My god, they'd take month of zeros at Harper's Ferry. So it's settled. No more French people in Hiawassee.

Glad we got this cleared up.

Have you been paying attention at all Yahoo? The housekeepers in Hiawassee are French. We need to tip them more, so they can supplement their lowly incomes from only working 20 weeks a year. And the French thru-hikers quit by Harpers Ferry because the cigarettes cost too much in the north. Which is why you should remember to tip them well.

sofaking
04-08-2008, 23:52
i'm moving to france, but only want to work part time...full time is too much time, no matter how many hours it may be. part time seasonal french job...smoking like a chimney, red wine flowing like an anuerysm...oh yeah, vive la france!

emerald
04-09-2008, 00:06
France's ban on smoking (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6319649.stm) in workplaces went into effect Feb 1, 2007.:)

Appalachian Tater
04-09-2008, 00:25
France's ban on smoking (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6319649.stm) in workplaces went into effect Feb 1, 2007.:)

And the ban is almost universally ignored.

emerald
04-09-2008, 00:27
Not at the company for which I work. I'm told they take it quite seriously.

Appalachian Tater
04-09-2008, 00:42
Hmmm. Maybe they aren't smoking in offices. Let us know the real situation after you get there.

My first day off at school, the first class, the professor walked in, put his books down on the desk, turned, looked at the blackboard chalk tray, and said, "Hum. They put an ashtray all the way across the room for me." And yes, he used it as an ashtray.

Once, after a particularly nasty coughing attack, he looked in his cupped hand and said "Lung chunks". That got a good laugh and my classmates still talk about it 25 years later.

That man chain-smoked for sixty-something years until he dropped dead from lung cancer. Don't you want to be remembered for SOMETHING?

emerald
04-09-2008, 06:22
Some of my co-workers travel to France regularly. I don't think they would have any reason to lie to me. Much of what I was told was unsolicited.

Years ago, one of my professors was the resident authority on oncology. He smoked. His colleagues pointed out to him smoking would one day kill him. It did. SBT.

Skyline
04-09-2008, 10:04
So, this is why we never see French thruhikers? Their 35 hour work week doesn't translate into a successful thruhike. My god, they'd take month of zeros at Harper's Ferry. So it's settled. No more French people in Hiawassee.

Glad we got this cleared up.



LOL.

So you want 'em to stay in HF for a month instead????

Dances with Mice
04-09-2008, 10:21
So, this is why we never see French thruhikers? No. It's because they keep surrendering to the caretaker on Springer.

twosticks
04-09-2008, 14:09
Sorry for the tangent, I wasn't trying to get into French bashing or if you're still allowed to smoke, i was trying to make a point on what peoples jobs are and people doing those jobs. I am a sys admin and I fix computers and such when they break. My job would be a whole lot easier if people would stop breaking things, but then I wouldn't have a job. The cleaning staff at hotels are employed to clean. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not condoning smoking in non-smoking rooms or going out of your way to mess things up, but I'm not going to clean the hotel room when I leave. That's why I paid what I paid to stay there. I'll put my stuff in the garbage can but I'm not going to bring my sheets down to the laundry room or scrub the tub. It doesn't matter if I'm a stinky hiker or a business man in a suit.

Tin Man
04-09-2008, 14:15
Hmmm. Maybe they aren't smoking in offices. Let us know the real situation after you get there.

My first day off at school, the first class, the professor walked in, put his books down on the desk, turned, looked at the blackboard chalk tray, and said, "Hum. They put an ashtray all the way across the room for me." And yes, he used it as an ashtray.

Once, after a particularly nasty coughing attack, he looked in his cupped hand and said "Lung chunks". That got a good laugh and my classmates still talk about it 25 years later.

That man chain-smoked for sixty-something years until he dropped dead from lung cancer. Don't you want to be remembered for SOMETHING?

When I visited corporate offices in France, most abided the rules, but some did not. It was a particular problem when these same folks visited the U.S., but they finally came around.

Appalachian Tater
04-09-2008, 14:24
When I visited corporate offices in France, most abided the rules, but some did not. It was a particular problem when these same folks visited the U.S., but they finally came around.So it is definitely not "universally ignored" in the workplace. I have not been there in several years, but it is definitely almost universally ignored elsewhere. They were still smoking in movie theaters even, not too long ago.

DesertMTB
04-09-2008, 14:45
Fellows there are many good people on the trail year after year.It don't matter how good you are to some though it is just in them to lye,steal,be destructive and cause damage.
I rent rooms to hikers dirt cheep.I have them washing their muddy boots in my sinks stopping them up and costing the price of more than a nights rent to unstop them at times.Many can't stand it without steeling the towels or ruining them.
This year I have had a record number of mattress pads and sheets ruined with women on the rag to nasty and inconsiderate to use a tampon or kotex.And trash,I think they save it all off the trail to throw in a motel floor.But there are so many great people I don't have the heart to have hard feelings toward all for this.


Sorry about the muddy towels Ron. I'll try and be more considerate next time!

Jack Tarlin
04-09-2008, 21:36
The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Witnessed a perfectly charming episode this evening in Franklin after a bunch of hikers were caught red-handed letting all sorts of people use their room, shower, etc., and were obviously planning on sneaking any number of folks into their room without management knowing about it.

This, after Ron spent around 14 hours a day driving hikers around for free.

Honestly, I don't know why anyone keeps doing stuff for hikers anymore, cuz the simple truth is that a lot of these folks are ungrateful little douches who don't deserve the kindness.

Right on, guys. Rip off Ron Haven. Touche. Why not mug Miss Janet or vandalize Kincora while you're at it.

What I don't understand is that it's so effing easy to do the right thing out here, you almost have to make a concerted effort to f*** it up.

But some people seem to manage it. It boggles the mind. One hundred miles in, i.e less than 5 per cent of the trip done, and people are already starting to steal. They must be very proud.

They're also REAL lucky they're remaining nameless, and the only reason they are is cuz they seemed almost sincere when they apologized to Ron for the rudeness and disrepect.

Funny how solemn and wistful people get.......AFTER they get caught screwing up.

Appalachian Tater
04-09-2008, 21:47
Hey, Ron, why doncha just stop charging for rooms and put a basket of $20 bills out in the lobby? Put some $5 bills in, too, that way they can tip the maids there at the motel and the busboy at the AYCE without having to ask for change.

Skidsteer
04-09-2008, 21:48
So, this is why we never see French thruhikers


No. It's because they keep surrendering to the caretaker on Springer.

That's the post of the month right there.

Ron Haven
04-09-2008, 22:07
Hey, Ron, why doncha just stop charging for rooms and put a basket of $20 bills out in the lobby? Put some $5 bills in, too, that way they can tip the maids there at the motel and the busboy at the AYCE without having to ask for change.I need to huh?These thought I just started the motel business just today:D

minnesotasmith
04-09-2008, 23:14
[quote=Jack Tarlin;590725]The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Honestly, I don't know why anyone keeps doing stuff for hikers anymore, cuz the simple truth is that a lot of these folks are ungrateful little douches who don't deserve the kindness.

Right on, guys. Rip off Ron Haven. Touche. Why not mug Miss Janet or vandalize Kincora while you're at it.

quote]

One of the two boot dryers (35-38.00 full retail price each) I sent as trail magic to Kincora has already been vandalized. What purpose did that serve? It makes me want to wait out the rest of the year before doing anything else like that, not wanting any chance of doing something that would further help that [nuzzler of roosters].

warren doyle
04-10-2008, 11:20
It sure is a different trail experience when you don't spend much time in towns, motels, hostels and bars.

Sly
04-10-2008, 11:27
It sure is a different trail experience when you don't spend much time in towns, motels, hostels and bars.

Oh I don't know. I think I can separate the two. Although usually after about a day I'm ready to get back to the trail. Later this year, I'll have the option of hiking 11 days without resupply or bail halfway. I still haven't made up my mind. I guess it depends on how strong I feel.

Alligator
04-10-2008, 11:29
It sure is a different trail experience when you don't spend much time in towns, motels, hostels and bars.Probably even better when you have someone meeting you at the trailhead with your stuff.

SGT Rock
04-10-2008, 11:34
Or only hike on the weekends and spend the weeks at work.

warren doyle
04-10-2008, 11:36
A fact:
Whenever I hike without van support, which is at least half the time I spend hiking, I don't stay overnight in town or inside hostels.
And my stuff does not include alcohol, cigarettes, illegal drugs, towels and portable showers.

Alligator
04-10-2008, 11:37
Or only hike on the weekends and spend the weeks at work.That's a good method except for the work part:).

Alligator
04-10-2008, 11:41
A fact:
Whenever I hike without van support, which is at least half the time I spend hiking, I don't stay overnight in town or inside hostels.
And my stuff does not include alcohol, cigarettes, illegal drugs, towels and portable showers.But you've got to admit, it's nice to have someone at the trailhead with a new supply of Little Debbies;).

And if someone was smoking in your non-smoking van, you'd be pissed too.

warren doyle
04-10-2008, 11:47
"And if someone was smoking in your non-smoking van, you'd be pissed too."

In the seven expeditions I've organized (approximately 90 people), we have had no smokers mainly because the purpose and task of the expedition would not draw people who have the need to smoke.

Alligator
04-10-2008, 11:50
"And if someone was smoking in your non-smoking van, you'd be pissed too."

In the seven expeditions I've organized (approximately 90 people), we have had no smokers mainly because the purpose and task of the expedition would not draw people who have the need to smoke.Then it's fairly obvious you'd be pissed. Way to duck the statement:rolleyes:.

Appalachian Tater
04-10-2008, 12:48
I hope somebody's writing all this down.

DesertMTB
04-10-2008, 13:15
[quote=warren doyle;591270In the seven expeditions I've organized (approximately 90 people), we have had no smokers mainly because the purpose and task of the expedition would not draw people who have the need to smoke.[/quote]


BS. Some of the strongest hikers out there smoke.

Sly
04-10-2008, 13:49
BS. Some of the strongest hikers out there smoke.

10,000 miles and counting (not really, but I can add). Cough, cough. :p

emerald
04-10-2008, 14:09
But you've got to admit, it's nice to have someone at the trailhead with a new supply of Little Debbies;).

I'd much rather hear of hikers sending support vehicle drivers to fetch Little Debbies than listen to someone whine because someone offerred them Tastykakes on the AT pulled out of a hat.

Freeleo
04-10-2008, 14:11
BS. Some of the strongest hikers out there smoke.

and isnt the 101 year old man running the marathon a smoker and drinker...jsut sayin

A-Train
04-10-2008, 16:27
I'm sure those of you who do nice things for hikers and spend your money on them are dissapointed by the recent events this year, showing that several people are ungrateful of the magic bestowed. It can be frustrating. You want to "give back" to what you've received and allow others to feel the magic you did out there.

But, is it really worth it to keep enabling folks who can't handle their priveledge? These are mostly middle to upper class people who are carrying over a thousand bucks in gear on them. Maybe it's time to start putting charity into more worthwhile causes.

Just sayin'.

(That being said, I'll still probably drop a bunch of cash on magic out west in 2 weeks):)

Sly
04-10-2008, 16:46
(That being said, I'll still probably drop a bunch of cash on magic out west in 2 weeks):)

Maybe I can adjust my "schedule". :D

Frosty
04-10-2008, 16:47
Some of the strongest hikers out there smoke.There are hikers out there who smoke, true, but I never heard that smoking made you a stronger hiker. I've read that your aerobic strength is better if you do not smoke, and if you do smoke, stopping will actually improve you lung capacity. That seems to be validated by those lilke myself who quit smoking and found exercise to be easier. Try quitting for just a year and see if it makes a difference. You can always go back to smoking again if it doesn't.

Appalachian Tater
04-10-2008, 17:00
Smoking is bad for you.

Frosty
04-10-2008, 18:57
Smoking is bad for you.My health and aerobic capacity certainly picked up when I stopped smoking. The only issue I have with quitting is that I was smoking a pack and a half a day at the time I quit. With all cigarettes I didn't buy over the last 25+ years. I should have a zillion dollars in the bank. I don't :(

CrumbSnatcher
04-10-2008, 19:09
i was never in hiawassee!

10-K
04-10-2008, 19:09
No. It's because they keep surrendering to the caretaker on Springer.

Classic!

Sly
04-10-2008, 19:39
My health and aerobic capacity certainly picked up when I stopped smoking. The only issue I have with quitting is that I was smoking a pack and a half a day at the time I quit. With all cigarettes I didn't buy over the last 25+ years. I should have a zillion dollars in the bank. I don't :(

I may try to quit again this year since I'll be on the west coast and butts cost about $5 or more per pack. I'll nearly be able to hike for free!

Jack Tarlin
04-10-2008, 20:06
Final footnote to Post #412 above:

The folks in question talked to Ron Haven, apologized, and everything's totally cool.

These are perfectly good kids, everybody makes a mistake, all they were trying to do was help out some Trail friends.

Can't begin to tell you people what a cool guy Ronnie Haven is......very sorry to be leaving Franklin tomorrow, and not merely cuz there's snow on the way!!

Ron Haven
04-10-2008, 22:36
Final footnote to Post #412 above:

The folks in question talked to Ron Haven, apologized, and everything's totally cool.

These are perfectly good kids, everybody makes a mistake, all they were trying to do was help out some Trail friends.

Can't begin to tell you people what a cool guy Ronnie Haven is......very sorry to be leaving Franklin tomorrow, and not merely cuz there's snow on the way!!PS,I got to hike a little bit with Jack today and we dug ramps yesterday.:D

Frosty
04-11-2008, 00:13
I may try to quit again this year since I'll be on the west coast and butts cost about $5 or more per pack. I'll nearly be able to hike for free!I guess I'm too old. I can't fathom paying five bucks a pack. They were about 60 cents a pack when I quit and I thought that was outrageous. I remember buying cigarettes for two bucks a carton in North Carolina when I used to drive through there in the mid-sixties.

About heath and cigarettes: this may or may not be true, but I once read that the social security system would have been bankrupt years ago if no one smoked. All those people living longer and collecting Soc Sec checks. The article was a rebuttal to another article complaining that ciragette smokers were dragging down the health system. They made a good point.

Dances with Mice
04-11-2008, 00:17
PS,I got to hike a little bit with Jack today and we dug ramps yesterday.:DRamps are one plant I haven't been able to ID consistently. I've seen photos and know what they look like in general but haven't been succesful in finding any. I bet I walk past a lot of them though. I need to get a lesson from you sometime.

CaseyB
04-11-2008, 01:05
Ramps are one plant I haven't been able to ID consistently. I've seen photos and know what they look like in general but haven't been succesful in finding any. I bet I walk past a lot of them though. I need to get a lesson from you sometime.
You should come to my yard.....dig away!.......damn ramps.:)

River Runner
04-11-2008, 02:03
About heath and cigarettes: this may or may not be true, but I once read that the social security system would have been bankrupt years ago if no one smoked. All those people living longer and collecting Soc Sec checks. The article was a rebuttal to another article complaining that ciragette smokers were dragging down the health system. They made a good point.

Sounds reasonable on the surface, but I imagine the costs to Medicare/Medicaid to treat smokers with emphysema, asthma, heart problems, and lung cancer is probably much greater than any savings created by paying them fewer years. Not including all those folks who get disability from smoking related disorders, which increases the number of Social Security checks given out.

SGT Rock
04-11-2008, 09:03
Situation was handled. Thread closed.