View Full Version : So, how has the trail changed since the 1970's?
By the summer of 1977 (I was sixteen) I'd hiked roughly a thousand miles of the AT split moslty between GA/NC/VA (long walk the summer of 77 with a chum) and the New England states where I lived at the time.
I haven't hike on the AT since the 70's and am curious for those that were around then how it's changed? From lurking on this site I gather there's quite a "Trail Culture" that barely existed when I was around.
Seems everyone has a nom de trail. Guess I'm completely out of it as I always signed registers with my actual name... :)
What gives?
What'd I miss? :)
fiddlehead
03-22-2008, 06:53
Hey, i hiked in '77 also.
What's different? Not a whole lot except:
the gear got lighter, (biggest change)
the trail a little easier, (more switchbacks)
more places to spend your money on the trail and books to tell you where to spend it,
less free hostels, places that put you up in town for free.
the internet and sites like this one to tell you how to do everything and how to act.
hikers don't have to suffer as much cause they are carrying lighter, better equip (tents, raingear, clothing)
Most people hike in running shoes now (and many use telescoping trekking poles)
People worry more about drinking the water now.
Shelter designs have gotten more wild: some smarter, some dumber.
walkins the same, less is still more, it still rains a lot, shelters still get crowded and abused (maybe more so now), people still leave garbage in the firepit at shelters.
springer and katahdin haven't moved and neither has most of the trail. most reroutes have taken it further away from towns, no big deal.
It still goes thru 14 states and you can't bushwhack in Maine.
oh yeah, and there's a boat to take you across the Kennebec (but you don't have to take it, up to you!)
Anyway, i didn't go by Fiddlehead back in '77 and only hiked from Springer to Del Water Gap with my girlfriend, we were simply: glenn and lou-ann.
In 1955, beginning 53 years ago this week, I did my first real section hike of the AT. I'd done many overnights and long weekends, but I added over a week to Easter break (now called spring break) and had an adventure. I solo hiked, tarped it all the way, used a sort of external framed pack with no hipbelt, re-supplied once, and never saw another person on the trail. Turned 15 on the trail, but that was back in "Happy Days" when a young teen could do that. Between early 1961 until late 1977 I was out of the country with the military.
I started backpacking on the AT in 1973, did Dick's Creek Gap, GA to Betty's Creek Gap and out a side trail - 35 miles. What I've noticed different today than back then:
Better shelters - most of them in GA-NC were simple lean-tos. Now almost all of them have a covered porch with table and seats around. Also helps keep the wind driven rain out from the sleeping area. I remember several times with the old style, hikers had to rig up tent flys, plastic, or whatever to try and keep the rain from getting everything wet in the shelter.
More privys - the GA ones have ramps. Not sure if they were thinking wheelchair access or what . . . kinda strange! :eek:
Trail is better maintained in most sections - thanks to larger and better organized trail clubs. I remember hiking through a lot of briars and nettles as the trail became overgrown in mid-late summer in some spots.
More people - usage has increased so finding solitude can be a bit more challenging.
No hammocks in the 70s! (just had to throw that in to stir up the hammock psychos) :eek: :p
Heavy leather boots - all hikers (including myself) wore those 2+ lbs per foot heavy leather boots, and everyone dealt with and complained of the blisters they had.
No trekking poles - only basic and fancy hiking sticks.
External frame packs only - and the basic load was much heavier than today . . . I would say 50-60 lbs average vs. today's 20-35 lbs average.
No cell phones! Thru-hikers had to do a lot more hitchhiking to reprovision. Couldn't "check-in" with your loved ones while hiking. Today cell phones are a blessing and a curse - a blessing when used considerately and a curse when the owner is inconsiderate of campers nearby. I like being able to phone home once a day, call for a shuttle, get weather updates with mine.
Gear, as fiddlehead said, has drastically improved - more functional and lighter.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
03-22-2008, 08:52
I've been around for a while, but apart from the trail culture for the most part.
My take is that the trail has become more crowded. Hiking the AT has become more about the party and socializing than about views, vistas and challenging oneself. The trail is way overused in places - something that was rare in the 1970s.
Things like hiker hostels and large organized trail magic feeds, parties, festivals exist now - mostly to the detriment of the experience IMO - YMMV.
Drinking and illegal substance use are now part of the experience - whether you want to be around them or not, you will see them on the trail.
A class of thru-hiker called the shelter rat has appeared - hikers who claim to be ultra-ultralighters and carry a minimal or sometimes no shelter of their own and believe everyone should move over or out so they can sleep in the shelters.
Hitchhiking alone is no longer as safe as it was in the 1970s - Paid shuttlers are now available.
It cost a lot more to thru-hike now because town stays and paid hostels are the rule instead of the exception they were in 1970.
pkinnetz
03-22-2008, 09:09
I've been hiking a shorter period of time (about 12 yr.) and even then I've noticed changes. The hikers are younger -maybe 'cause I'm older ;-) -- but even more recently within the last couple of years, the shuttler list has greatly diminished. Folks who used to shuttle, are getting out of the business because of a couple reasons. Hiker attitudes (entitled and rude) and higher gas prices are the two reasons they are leaving that I keep hearing from shuttlers. Anybody else notice this?
Before anyone jumps on me, I don't mean to imply that the young are those with attitude; attitude crosses generational lines.
Cookerhiker
03-22-2008, 09:10
I echo what everyone else has said. My only addition is that in VT (my first AT backpacking in 1977) and I'm sure other wet places, there are more and better puncheons and other aids to crossing watery & mucky places than in the mid-70s.
One big difference ifs that people tend to resupply much more now than they used to.
Carrying 10 days worth of food didn't used to be a sign of insanity, but rather a simply matter of choice so as to avoid a hitch off the Trail.
Hikers now carry heavy hiking poles, heavy cameras, heavy phones, heavy inflatable sleeping pads, heavy water purification systems, heavy guidebooks, heavy Ipods, and heavy packs of vitamins, ibuprofen and condoms. Never used to be that way.
But they carry way less food.
Tipi Walter
03-22-2008, 09:35
When I was out as a kid in 1958 thru 1963, I was INVISIBLE. Good thing, too. When I picked it up again in 1977 and started sleeping anywhere and everywhere, stealth camping under bushes by a church, in cemetaries, anywhere I could find a treeline, people were friendlier and not so dang uptight.
Nowadays there's Community Watch Fever and too many lawyers, "He's-got-a-backpack!!" becomes "He's-got-a-gun!!" dementia and the kids don't even go out anymore. The 1970s might as well be the 1830s compared to what is happening now.
The endless gear choices are comical and the inflated prices are mind numbing. The Ultralight fanatics now have their own brand of community watch-political correctness which compels newbs to obsess over the Holy Gram, something that was absent in the 70s. Plus, and who can forget this one, the Tent Police are more organized and want a bigger piece of the cashflow pie(shelter fees, camping permits, ad vomitus). In 1970 there might have been 180 million Americans, by 2040 we'll be up to 400-450 million.
Roads, sprawl and mindless development is more advanced now than in the 70s, plus today on the AT the pitiful backpacker is subjected to the near endless whining of motorcycle racket and traffic noise, and the near continuous jet airplane noise pollution from overhead. End O' Rant.
The trail was carpeted in the late 1990's,
Frolicking Dinosaurs
03-22-2008, 09:49
The trail was carpeted in the late 1990's,::: Dino peeks over trifocals, cuts a bit of the carpet from the trail, rolls Tin Man in carpet and tosses him in the Kennebec :::
::: Dino peeks over trifocals, cuts a bit of the carpet from the trail, rolls Tin Man in carpet and tosses him in the Kennebec :::
The canoe is being replaced by a bridge. It will be carpeted too.
Jim Adams
03-22-2008, 10:00
I found that my 2002 thru hike had about 250 different miles of trail than my 1990 thru hike had....relo's, missing road walks, etc.
Alot more hiker oriented services.
Switchbacks added however it did seem that more difficult terrain was chosen for the relo's.
Fun factor didn't lessen one bit!
geek
Forgot one item:
In the '70s most of us (including myself) were hippies - you don't see very many hippies now-a-days! They've been replaced by young-urban-techno-geeks! :D
For that reason, I would differ with FD on the drug/alcohol "scene." It's there today . . . it was there in the '70s. The only reason there is more of it today is there is more traffic on the AT.
Gee if you listen to FD, it's all been downhill since the good old days....
Anyway, why complain about the "thru hiker scene" if you despise it so much? Somebody call a waaaaa-mbulance. :rolleyes: Last I heard, participation was voluntary. I've hiked the last ten years and 1200 miles of the AT without observing any of that nastiness that FD decries...
From my own perspective -- I started hiking on or near the AT, mostly weekend hikes, in the Whites in the mid-1970s. At the time, "long distance" hiking wasn't part of my consciousness.
What's changed for me is the shift from fun weekend hikes with my pals, to (mostly) solo long-distance treks, anywhere from 35-600 miles. In many ways, those weekend treks with my pals were more fun, even though the gear was awful, and we made short distances, carrying huge loads, etc.
I enjoyed the laughing, shouting, drinking, smoking, sniveling, farting around, (and farting) with my pals in the woods. I miss that.
Hikers now carry heavy hiking poles, heavy cameras, heavy phones, heavy inflatable sleeping pads, heavy water purification systems, heavy guidebooks, heavy Ipods, and heavy packs of vitamins, ibuprofen and condoms. Never used to be that way.
The sum total of that heaviness is still less than the typical loads carried by AT thru-hikers of, say, 20 years ago.
Earl Shaffer's Kodak Retina camera was no lightweight. I have a copy of that same camera, and (from memory) it weighs at least 24 oz. (It's not close at hand, otherwise I'd weigh it and give you an accurate figure.)
buff_jeff
03-22-2008, 10:20
I think you should take what people are saying here with a grain of salt. Retrospect induces romance. The "good ol' days" probably weren't that perfect at the time. It's like the military. The WWI guys called the WWII guys pussies, the WWII guys called the Vietnam guys' training weak, and so forth. One day, my generation will be saying how much better the trail was in our time to our kids' generation. The AT is what it is. It was never pure wilderness. When Shaffer thru-hiked there were farms and other human activity encroaching on the trail to a massive extent. While he came in contact with less hikers, much of the areas he went through were heavily logged, or being farmed. Many areas of the trail have more trees today than they did when he hiked.
That's just my .02 cents. I wasn't even alive in the 70's, so take it for what you want.
Hikers now carry heavy hiking poles, heavy cameras, heavy phones, heavy inflatable sleeping pads, heavy water purification systems, heavy guidebooks, heavy Ipods, and heavy packs of vitamins, ibuprofen and condoms. Never used to be that way.Gotta disagree with some of these.
My Komperdell trekking poles weigh less than any old-fashioned hiking stick by far.
My Windows Mobile cell phone includes a 2 Mpix camera, stores books, and gets valuable weather updates. At 6.6 oz that is far less than even today's digital camera, let alone the 35mm cameras of yesteryear. In eliminating camera and book weight (if you like to relax by reading, like I do), the net is a significant reduction in weight, and you get the cell phone functionality for free! :)
My Steripen water treatment system weighs less than the 30 year old pump solutions.
My Big Agnes Dual Core inflatable mattress weighs less and is smaller (packed) than my 30 year old ThermaRest groundpad, and far more comfortable.
Don't know what your point was with the "vitamins, ibuprofen, and condoms," they weigh about the same today as 30 years ago . . . you either carry-use them or you don't.
More privys - the GA ones have ramps. Not sure if they were thinking wheelchair access or what . . . kinda strange! :eek:
Much of the new construction is financed through government grants. If grant money is used to construct a privy, it must be wheelchair accessible. Stupid? yes. Waste of the money? yes. Our gov't at work? no doubt about it.:rolleyes:
Much of the new construction is financed through government grants. If grant money is used to construct a privy, it must be wheelchair accessible. Stupid? yes. Waste of the money? yes. Our gov't at work? no doubt about it.:rolleyes:Well I'll be dipped in sheep excrement! :eek: Wow! That is insane. Well . . . I like the ramps 'cause most mornings . . . I . . . like . . . gotta go real bad when I wake up, so they keep me from tripping on my dash to the potty! :D :banana
Nearly Normal
03-22-2008, 10:55
Much of the new construction is financed through government grants. If grant money is used to construct a privy, it must be wheelchair accessible. Stupid? yes. Waste of the money? yes. Our gov't at work? no doubt about it.:rolleyes:
That should double the cost.
Is someone checking to see the ramp gets built?
or is a finished product picture submited. (Photoshop)
You could probably build two privys.
dessertrat
03-22-2008, 11:12
Less plaid flannel.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
03-22-2008, 11:15
::: Dino seen delighted at prospect of grab bars in the privy :::
::: Dino seen delighted at prospect of grab bars in the privy :::
Sorry Dino, no grab bars in the privy, only ramps. Once the wheelchair bound person gets up the mountain :rolleyes: gets up the ramp to the privy:rolleyes: it's up to them to figure out how to get the wheelchair into the privy, get off the wheelchair and onto the seat. :rolleyes:
Frolicking Dinosaurs
03-22-2008, 12:07
::: Dino seen with head and tail hanging down :::
Seriously, if I managed to get my wheelchair to the location, I think I could manage to get my fat a$$ on the stool.....
::: Dino seen with head and tail hanging down :::
Seriously, if I managed to get my wheelchair to the location, I think I could manage to get my fat a$$ on the stool.....
LOLOLOLOL
::: Dino seen with head and tail hanging down :::
Seriously, if I managed to get my wheelchair to the location, I think I could manage to get my fat a$$ on the stool.....
Maybe this would this help?
you either carry-use them or you don't.
Exactly!
Its not that cameras are heavier now, its that many hikers did without them. How many would consider that today? Same with phones, ipods, water purifications systems, etc. A stiripen is light, but heavier than nothing at all.
Only point is that weight has always been a huge consideration, and smart backpacker have always found ways to save weight. When I hiked 25 years ago, I did without a sleeping pad for a thousand miles, and then only added a light weight closed cell foam for for insulation. I had a fancy down bag I left home for most of the trip, in favor of a very cheap K-mart bag to save ounces. Plenty of trick like that.
But I also was willing to carry 10 and more days worth of food, so my pack was heavy.
I tend to be a bit suspicious of reminiscing. It's hard to be objective, people like to remember that they were happy.
Like the 1950s, weren't those the good ole days! There was no sex on TV, but black people had to use separate bathrooms :-?
buff_jeff
03-22-2008, 14:37
I tend to be a bit suspicious of reminiscing. It's hard to be objective, people like to remember that they were happy.
Like the 1950s, weren't those the good ole days! There was no sex on TV, but black people had to use separate bathrooms :-?
Exactly! Everything is so great in retrospect.
Brushy Sage
03-22-2008, 14:57
Had any bear cables been installed in the 1970s?
Had any bear cables been installed in the 1970s?I don't recall any in GA-NC. Good point - there are a few now!
I expect it's true the probability of encountering a bear is now greater than in the 1970s.
Read some of the old AT books, like Ed Garvey's
I expect it's true the probability of encountering a bear is now greater than in the 1970s.
And moose!
Jason of the Woods
03-22-2008, 18:03
I hope so!
I expect it's true the probability of encountering a bear is now greater than in the 1970s.
Read some of the old AT books, like Ed Garvey's.
The National Geographic AT books issued in the mid-1970s and late-1980s would also serve to point out some ways in which the AT has changed.
The amount of private property the AT traverses in now considerably less, there are more shelters and smaller gaps between them and greater flexibility concerning where hikers can camp in some locations. In 1980, I hiked mostly from one designated camping area to the next.
Hikers relied to a greater extent upon locals for information about services than today. When I 1st encountered today's hike-by-the-numbers menu approach to AT services, it struck me as a significant change.
Nice to read most of these comments.
Nostalgia? Of course... it's entirely human and a genuine underrated pleasure if not over-indulged in!
A little background: I started backpacking in the Whites in 1975. My first trip was 12 days / 120 miles and most trips I did then were a minimum of three days to as long as two weeks with the average probably being seven days.
My longest trip was 2.5 mo's which was on summer break between my sophomore and junior year in HS in June 1977 as I mentioned. A friend and I flew down to Atlanta and hitchhiked to Springer. I was fifteen years old! We were pretty scruffy looking long-hairs and the local rednecks on the hitchhike north took special delight in hurling empty beer bottles at us. Eventually a kind postal worker picked us up after 2.5 hrs on the interstate with no ride. He took us to his house, fed us, loaded up the entire family in the station wagon and drove us the entire way to Springer... talk about kindness!
I turned sixteen on the walk over the GA/NC border on June 21st. It rained every day for the first two weeks of the trip. Got charged by a mean boar in SMNP, had one bear encounter, nearly stepped on a brood of Copperheads, several rattler encounters and nearly hit by lightening. Spent the fourth with a group of mountain people who kindly supplied us with moonshine and treated us yankees with genuine goodness despite their drunkenss and the single action 45's tucked in their swim suits. Was given quite a bit of home-grown by one 70 year old local who grew the weed for himself.
Really, there just weren't that many hikers... just a few of us late-starters who were mostly high school students, all headed north for as long as the summer lasted. I remember well one group of three guys from Minnesota that we hiked with on and off.
Our food mailings were generally about twelve days apart. Our gear was pretty good and we went bare-bones. Jansport D3, EMS Polarguard bag rated at 30*, a tarp, poncho, Ensolite pad, ground sheet, Svea 123, Fuel bottle, small Sigg pot, Spoon and 35mm Yashika rangefinder, Dr. Bronners, Toothbrush, Toothpaste, small firstaid kit, bit of nylon rope, flashlight, light clothes, running shoes for camp... that's about it. Probably all the basics came in at around 20-25 lbs. There was a drought and heat-wave that summer and we suffered pretty well... packs would sometimes hit 65 lbs after a resupply and extra water for sparse sections. Lot of weight for a 130 lb kid. I was young and tough and really never minded. It's GOOD to hear there's more switchbacks on the trail today.
As to gear, I used a hammock in the 70's! I generally carried one starting in 1976 and often slept comfortably in it. I remember one really bad hurricane that hit the Whites in 1976. I believe it was mid/late August. We headed for a shelter (can't recall which) that was just below timberline. The winds were in excess of 100 mph at times and we had to wait it out for three days. I strung my hammock in the shelter and comfortably read a book while everyone below hammock level were stacked on top of each other.
I also used "trekking poles"... Scott Ski poles :D. I also ran a bit of flexible tubing from my water bottle to my shoulder strap with a stop valve... my version then of what practically everyone uses now.
Honestly, I really don't think most gear is all that much better today. Boots are far better today. Tents and sleeping bags really aren't that much better. I started using Goretex in 1978 and it remains a mixed bag IMO to this day. I also started using internal frame packs in 1978. My early Synergy Works was a really no better than an external. I wouldn't trade my Osprey Crescent 60 or 90 for anything we carried then however!
BTW, my Svea 123 I purchased it from REI in 1975 for $11.00 is still going strong as are my Sigg pots... I burned quite a lot of Regular Gas in the Svea during our hike direct from the gas station with no ill effects. So yeah, we had "multi fuel" stoves back then :D
Brad, great stuff there. It sounds like you were way ahead of your time.
fiddlehead
03-22-2008, 21:56
I blew up my Svea 123 on my hike in '77 because i sometimes used Coleman fuel and sometimes got the unleaded from gas stations. Clogged it up and it blew one night. Used fires from then on. It was a lot heavier than the stoves being used today.
I will agree that sleeping bags were good back then. I had a good down bag rated at 20 deg. and i have one now that is perhaps a little lighter and fits me better. (but costs twice as much)
Tents are a lot lighter now. My Sil-Shelter weighs 12 oz and i've never gotten wet in it. (sil nylon is great stuff) n instant tube tent that probably weighed a lb and got wet in it many nights.)
Do you remember in SNP how you were not allowed to sleep near the shelters. You had to stealth camp. Park rules. Crazy!
I saw just as much wildlife (bears anyway) back then than i do now. I do remember some of the hikers wearing jeans. You almost never see that now.
Tents are getting lighter, that's for sure, but at the expense of not providing warmth. Mesh weighs less but doesn't provide much warmth under the fly. My 4-season Eureka 3-man dome will will knock 20* off the outside temperature with only one person in it, more with two or three people, but it weighs 11 lbs. If I do any more serious winter hiking, I'll carry the extra weight and leave my SD Lightning home.
Brad, great stuff there. It sounds like you were way ahead of your time.
I guess I might have been... The "hydration system" came to me simply. I hated to take a pack off to drink!
I hiked the AT (sections) frequently between 1969 and 1977. Boots now are a hell of a lot better!! I remember my old Vasque boots, stiff as steel. I've still got scars on my feet from the blisters i got on a week-long AT trip.
Tents are lighter now, clothing is lighter, packs are lighter, alcohol stoves, which DID exist in the old Trangias, were for Euro-dweebs, and not for "hard-core hikers" (at least among my crowd!) I used an Optimus 8R. :rolleyes:
Food seems better now, if more complicated WRT choices. Back then, oatmeal for breakfast worked just fine like now, while GORP, cheese, sardines and pitas were lunch standards, and beans, rice, more cheese and alfalfa sprouts were dinner staples. Freeze dried eggs are just as bad as they were 30-40 years ago!
I remember two week-long hikes and not seeing another hiker the entire time (except for the 2-3 others in my party).
Funny, for the all the miles I did on week-long trips during the summers, I remember so little of the views, but just a few snippets of "place." My principle remembrance is simply the great freedom of being out in the wilds with good friends, just being a teenager.
Programbo
03-22-2008, 22:52
By the summer of 1977 (I was sixteen) I'd hiked roughly a thousand miles of the AT split moslty between GA/NC/VA (long walk the summer of 77 with a chum) and the New England states where I lived at the time.I haven't hike on the AT since the 70's and am curious for those that were around then how it's changed? From lurking on this site I gather there's quite a "Trail Culture" that barely existed when I was around.
Seems everyone has a nom de trail. Guess I'm completely out of it as I always signed registers with my actual name...What gives?What'd I miss?
OMG!..A post that is custom made for me..I too hiked half the AT in 77' and then stopped until just a couple of years ago...As luck would have it I hiked a LOT on the trail all thru the 70`s and have a fantastic memory and can recall even the tiniest detail of those times so when I returned to the AT in say 2006 it was as if I had traveled time from 1977 til now...Unfortunately I have to wake up early tomorrow morning and drive like 200 miles for Easter stuff so can not give this the attention I want to..I will reply in depth tomorrow evening (I`m sure I won`t have time to go back and read all the replies between now and then so forgive me if I repeat info)
Programbo
03-22-2008, 22:56
Quick PS: Although I wasn`t hiking I did sell backpacking equipment 52 hours a week for almost 11 years from 1985-1995 at one of the biggest outfitters in the country (As per in-store sales for one location)
I blew up my Svea 123 on my hike in '77 because i sometimes used Coleman fuel and sometimes got the unleaded from gas stations. Clogged it up and it blew one night. Used fires from then on. It was a lot heavier than the stoves being used today.
I will agree that sleeping bags were good back then. I had a good down bag rated at 20 deg. and i have one now that is perhaps a little lighter and fits me better. (but costs twice as much)
Tents are a lot lighter now. My Sil-Shelter weighs 12 oz and i've never gotten wet in it. (sil nylon is great stuff) n instant tube tent that probably weighed a lb and got wet in it many nights.)
Do you remember in SNP how you were not allowed to sleep near the shelters. You had to stealth camp. Park rules. Crazy!
I saw just as much wildlife (bears anyway) back then than i do now. I do remember some of the hikers wearing jeans. You almost never see that now.
Fiddlehead, just perused your gallery... some very good, creative photos there!
Tents are for sure lighter but I almost never used a tent back then. We mostly tarped and on the trail when we started (after you and your girlfriend) I can't ever remember not having room at a shelter. Solo here in Montana I usually pack a tent anymore what with all the bears and sideways snow/rain storms in summer above Timberline where I like it best. I use a little Black Diamond Firstlight but am going to get one of the new Free-standing Tarps from Golite. Like You I use down, little Western Mountaineering Versalite Super. Great little bag. Funny thing is, inflation taken into account, Down is cheaper today then the 70's and a LOT better. I had a North Face Ibex for winter back then and it nearly broke the bank.
The Park Rules were nutty. To this day National Parks are a mixed bag to me. Yellowstone is just down the road but I never backpack there.
Jeans... man, I doubt I hardly ever saw anyone NOT in jeans!
I can only remember treating water one time on the entire trip (with Halazone) and I rarely treated water anywhere, anytime all those years. A habit I carry to this day. I still carry a little vial of Clorox to drop four drops per liter but I doubt I've used it in a decade. We're blessed with beautiful water here in Montana. I have several PUR filters that were gifts but they've never been out of their boxes.
Guess I'm just not cut out for Nanny Nation. That's not to say water isn't a problem some places, just that I think far too much hand-wringing (and fear-mongering profits) surround the topic.
Everyone's mileage may vary of course.
Man am I rambling...
Wow... more guys chiming-in as I'm writing. GREAT to hear form so many from those days!
Speer Carrier
03-22-2008, 23:07
Much of the new construction is financed through government grants. If grant money is used to construct a privy, it must be wheelchair accessible. Stupid? yes. Waste of the money? yes. Our gov't at work? no doubt about it.:rolleyes:
Are you sure about that? I am of the opinion that the ramps are necessary because with the new mouldering privies, the poop doesn't go into a hole, but collects in a box that is at ground level. The ramp is to get you off the ground, not for wheel chairs. Besides, as far as I know, privies are financed mainly, through the maintaining clubs. Maybe some forest service money is made available from time to time, and I know they have some weird rules on privy construction, but I never heard wheel chair accessible being one of the rules.
Speaking of shelters, back in the day when I was a boy scout we used clear plastic as a tarp or heavy canvas tents, some were floor-less so we brought heavy canvas tarps to use as a floor. I would always get wet when it rained. Then a friend's parents bought him a single wall, non-canvas tent, complete with a floor. I thought it was so cool when he invited me to share it with him. After the first morning, I was drenched from the condensation - needless to say it was not well ventilated and since it was a clear night, all the canvas dwellers were dry. Ouch!
Almost There
03-22-2008, 23:20
Dude, I can't even imagine some of the teenage 'tards I teach heading off on their own to hike....parents have really f'd their kids up over the last 15 years.
On top of it, how many parents do you know today that would allow their kids to go off and hike at 15/16 years of age!
Some great stories though...sorry I can't comment on hiking in the 70's, too young!...don't get to say that too much anymore.
Almost There
03-22-2008, 23:22
I can remember camping out with my neighbor in his dad's old Army pup tent, you know the old kind made of canvas with wood and brass tent poles, I bet it had to weigh close to twenty pounds.
I can remember camping out with my neighbor in his dad's old Army pup tent, you know the old kind made of canvas with wood and brass tent poles, I bet it had to weigh close to twenty pounds.
Well, our canvas was not quite that heavy. It was more of a modern, light-weight canvas. ;)
buff_jeff
03-22-2008, 23:29
Dude, I can't even imagine some of the teenage 'tards I teach heading off on their own to hike....parents have really f'd their kids up over the last 15 years.
On top of it, how many parents do you know today that would allow their kids to go off and hike at 15/16 years of age!
Some great stories though...sorry I can't comment on hiking in the 70's, too young!...don't get to say that too much anymore.
I hear you, man. I remember when I got the "idea" to go hiking one day with a buddy of mine last year. We were both 19. His mommy didn't want him to go so he didn't. :D I lucked out, my Dad had done some hiking back in the day and he couldn't wait to get my ass out of the house. Thank God he did, or I'd be another boring college kid doing nothing with my summers.:banana
Are you sure about that? I am of the opinion that the ramps are necessary because with the new mouldering privies, the poop doesn't go into a hole, but collects in a box that is at ground level. The ramp is to get you off the ground, not for wheel chairs. Besides, as far as I know, privies are financed mainly, through the maintaining clubs. Maybe some forest service money is made available from time to time, and I know they have some weird rules on privy construction, but I never heard wheel chair accessible being one of the rules.
Actually, ramps may be required for "public" restrooms (a privy is considered a public restroom), and according to the ADA (American with Disabilities Act) guidelines it's up to the local jurisdiction to decide which parts of the Act should apply (ramps, grab bars, ADA toilets, door width, etc.) and modify existing structures or build newer ADA compliant ones.
I do agree though that privies with wheelchair friendly ramps in a place that, in all probability, will never see a wheelchair is a waste of time and money resources; resources better used in other ways.
dessertrat
03-23-2008, 00:02
Had any bear cables been installed in the 1970s?
I would certainly hope there was no cable for bears in the 70's. I couldn't even get cable at my house back then!
Actually, ramps may be required for "public" restrooms (a privy is considered a public restroom), and according to the ADA (American with Disabilities Act) guidelines it's up to the local jurisdiction to decide which parts of the Act should apply (ramps, grab bars, ADA toilets, door width, etc.) and modify existing structures or build newer ADA compliant ones.
I do agree though that privies with wheelchair friendly ramps in a place that, in all probability, will never see a wheelchair is a waste of time and money resources; resources better used in other ways.
What they don't tell you as soon as all the privies are wheelchair accessible, they will be smoothing out the trail and laying down asphalt. If they don't, the American Civil Liberalnuts Onion will sue the Feds to withdraw funding for ADA compliancy and then we will all be in the Sh|ter.
What they don't tell you as soon as all the privies are wheelchair accessible, they will be smoothing out the trail and laying down asphalt. If they don't, the American Civil Liberalnuts Onion will sue the Feds to withdraw funding for ADA compliancy and then we will all be in the Sh|ter.
Could be truer than you think, but hey, nothing wrong with a few esculators and elevators gettin' up then tough spots :D
dessertrat
03-23-2008, 00:07
::: Dino peeks over trifocals, cuts a bit of the carpet from the trail, rolls Tin Man in carpet and tosses him in the Kennebec :::
Dino violates WhiteBlaze TOS!
Could be truer than you think, but hey, nothing wrong with a few esculators and elevators gettin' up then tough spots :D
Escalators? They are going to connect the mountain tops with bridges, mark my words.
OK, I'll bite... what's a "bear cable?"
Escalators? They are going to connect the mountain tops with bridges, mark my words.
And don't forget the GA>MA Tour Bus via the AT. Routed for the best views, of course :D
OK, I'll bite... what's a "bear cable?"
When your bear gets wet, you can hang him on the cable to dry out.
When your bear gets wet, you can hang him on the cable to dry out.
Or was that for hanging your food bag in bear country? :-?
Anyway, it works for either purpose.
Almost There
03-23-2008, 01:41
I hear you, man. I remember when I got the "idea" to go hiking one day with a buddy of mine last year. We were both 19. His mommy didn't want him to go so he didn't. :D I lucked out, my Dad had done some hiking back in the day and he couldn't wait to get my ass out of the house. Thank God he did, or I'd be another boring college kid doing nothing with my summers.:banana
Here's one maybe not trail related but how many out there remember when mom kicked us out of the house all day long every day during the summer, when packs of kids roamed the area out of doors, vs. structured play dates indoors with a couple of other kids....not exactly ideal for breeding tomorrow's outdoor enthusiasts!
And don't forget the GA>MA Tour Bus via the AT. Routed for the best views, of course :D
It warms my heart to see the bus will only go as far as Massachusetts (MA) and will not be despoiling The Long Trail or the AT in Vermont (VT), New Hampshire (NH) and Maine (ME). The official postal abbreviations for AT states remain unchanged.:)
buff_jeff
03-23-2008, 10:02
Here's one maybe not trail related but how many out there remember when mom kicked us out of the house all day long every day during the summer, when packs of kids roamed the area out of doors, vs. structured play dates indoors with a couple of other kids....not exactly ideal for breeding tomorrow's outdoor enthusiasts!
I'm only 20 and I've noticed that within my lifetime. Hell, we were always running around the neighborhood causing trouble. I look at my younger cousins and they're "booked" until 5 everyday, get home and play video games. Rinse and Repeat every single day.
Ah, the 70s. When every campsite had a fire place -- and a can dump encroaching on the fire place. I've buried scores of them, on and off the AT -- the last one a decade or so ago at an AT site in Great Smoky Mountain National Park.
My packs have gotten heavier, not lighter. Back then I was still carrying a $3.95 pup tent. No floor, no mosquito netting. I had bought from an ad in a hunting and fishing magazine in 1949. It would sleep three in a pinch, by just stretching out the stakes and leaving the door open. I never thought to weigh it. But I'm sure it was less than a pound.
The ultra light fad was already underway Gerry ------- (I forget his last name) but he founded the Gerry gear company. About 1970 he published a small paperback book describing how to backpack a week with a 21 pound pack -- including food.
The Maine trail is more protected now. About 1972 I spied a logging truck piled high with spruce logs, several of which were blazed with the white AT symbol.
By the end of the decade nearly 100,000 formerly private acres on Bigelow, the Mahoosucs, Four Ponds, and Nahmakanta were state owned. It took another decade for the National Park service to buy the intervening trail corridor.
Some complain bitterly about the trail in Maine being too difficult now. But we are gradually getting used to it.
Weary
Weary, ever thought of writing a book?
Weary, ever thought of writing a book?
I've toyed with the idea. I once had a publisher interested, but they bowed out.
By the way, as I think more about the 70s, Gerry's last name is Cunningham and his 21 pound pack instructions probably were published in the 60s, maybe as early as the late 50s.
Weary
Weary, ever thought of writing a book?
I've toyed with the idea. I once had a publisher interested, but they bowed out.
By the way, as I think more about the 70s, Gerry's last name is Cunningham and his 21 pound pack instructions probably were published in the 60s, maybe as early as the late 50s. Gerry is in his mid 80s now if he is still alive. He severed connections with the company he founded a couple of decades ago.
Weary
Brushy Sage
03-23-2008, 11:42
More specifically: "bear cables" is shorthand for those cable systems mounted between trees or poles, upon which the hiker may hang food bags, backpacks or other items to keep them out of the reach of bears and other varmints. The Carolina Mountain Club is initiating a program this year to install them at each shelter in the Club's area (between Davenport Gap and Spivey Gap).
shelterbuilder
03-23-2008, 13:35
Actually, ramps may be required for "public" restrooms (a privy is considered a public restroom), and according to the ADA (American with Disabilities Act) guidelines it's up to the local jurisdiction to decide which parts of the Act should apply (ramps, grab bars, ADA toilets, door width, etc.) and modify existing structures or build newer ADA compliant ones.
I do agree though that privies with wheelchair friendly ramps in a place that, in all probability, will never see a wheelchair is a waste of time and money resources; resources better used in other ways.
ADA requirements DO come into play for all new construction of privies and shelters. There are variables within the regs to allow a certain amount of variation from structure to structure, but anything new HAS to conform...waste of money or not. (Yes, it does seem strange to put an ADA-compliant privy where no wheelchairs can go, but that's the law.)
shelterbuilder
03-23-2008, 13:50
I also stared hiking the trail in the 70's (early 70's), and I see LOTS more folks on the trail now. There are even more folks out in the wintertime, which was something that you rarely saw in the 70's. Some of the equipment is more technical than it was back then (waterproof/breathable fabrics, for one), and packs are lighter.
From the regulatory end of things, there's more involvement from the federal government, but there seems to be more cooperation from the state governments, too. Back-country sanitation has become a big issue - there are more privies, although they don't always meet the guidelines for ALL the states (ie - mouldering toilets are sub-standard for Pa.). Shelters got bigger and fancier to accomodate more people.
But the trail is still the trail: ups and downs, rocks, mud, views, "green tunnels", sore muscles, sunburns, and inner peace. The more things change, the more they stay the same. :D
I am reading Hiking The Appalachian Trail Vol 2 which came out in 1975. Most of the hikes were in 1969. The differences are really obvious. They had trouble finding the trail in places.
In the first story, Eric Ryback mentions spending time with the Shaw family in Blacksburg. I spoke to Mrs Shaw at church today and she remembered Eric.
I knew someone when I lived at Orono who met Grandma Gatewood. Never met her myself, but I did get to meet several of the other early 2000 milers no longer with us.
Ah, the 70s. When every camsite had a fire place -- and a can dump encroaching on the fire place. I've buried scores of them, on and off the AT -- the last one a decade or so ago at an AT site in Great Smoky Mountain National Park.
My packs have gotten heavier, not lighter. Back then I was still carrying a $3.95 pup tent. No floor, no mosquito netting. I had bought from an ad in a hunting and fishing magazine in 1949. It would sleep three in a pinch, by just stretching out the stakes and leaving the door open. I never thought to weigh it. But I'm sure it was less than a pound.
The ultra light fad was already underway Gerry ------- (I forget his last name) but he founded the Gerry gear company. About 1970 he published a small paperback book describing how to backpack a week with a 21 pound pack -- including food.
The Maine trail is more protected now. About 1972 I spied a logging truck piled high with spruce logs, several of which were blazed with the white AT symbol.
By the end of the decade nearly 100,000 formerly private acres on Bigelow, the Mahoosucs, Four Ponds, and Nahmakanta were state owned. It took another decade for the National Park service to buy the intervening trail corridor.
Some complain bitterly about the trail in Maine being too difficult now. But we are gradually getting used to it.
Weary
Campsite? Nobody said anything about a stinkin' campsite! :D
Actually in the '70s, at least out West, there were few established campsites, most of which were designed for the car camper. Since the Government interfered little, one could throw down just about anywhere and go "primitive". The biggest difference I've seen over the past 35 years is that equipment has gotten lighter and more high tech, food for the trail has gotten a lot tastier with more varieties, and it seems at times that everyone has there hand in the pie when it comes to regulations, some of which are needed and some are not.
The canoe is being replaced by a bridge. It will be carpeted too.
One bridge over Detweiler Run on the Greenwood Spur of the Mid State Trail (which is part of Great Eastern Trail) has red carpet on it, I kid you not!
I still have the first down bag I ever bought, back in 1972 or so, from some hunter's supply store in downtown Rochester, NY. It cost $65 at the time and has about 2.5 pounds of down fill. Bags #2-4 were bought in '89 and '90 and '07. All four are still in good working order. That first (1972) bag is still quite useable, though one of the baffled segments has collapsed.
naturejunkie
03-24-2008, 09:17
I was only knee-high to a grasshopper in the 70's, but I remember looking at pictures of the AT and thru-hikers being shown to us by our Den Mother in the Cub Scouts. Even now, there is something about those pics of backpackers with their 70's hair, external frame packs, blue jeans, flannel shirts and heavy leather work boots that I find inspiring. Can't really explain why.
Kerosene
03-24-2008, 09:30
Even now, there is something about those pics of backpackers with their 70's hair, external frame packs, blue jeans, flannel shirts and heavy leather work boots that I find inspiring.Here's something to inspire you, naturejunkie! http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=65
max patch
03-24-2008, 09:36
Here's something to inspire you, naturejunkie! http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=65
Love that 50 degree below zero bag you were hauling :)
Kerosene
03-24-2008, 12:40
Love that 50 degree below zero bag you were hauling :)Believe it or not, it was my huge synthetic rectangular camp bag I used in scouts, and probably wasn't good below 35F! That thing must've weighed 5 pounds! I replaced it the next year with a duck down mummy from Sears of all places that still probably weighed 3 pounds.
naturejunkie
03-24-2008, 15:28
Here's something to inspire you, naturejunkie! http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=65
Excellent!
WalkingStick75
03-24-2008, 20:45
I started hiking the AT in 1975 as I remember:
Nobody used "trail names"
"Hike your own hike" was taken seriously. The trail is now very social.
The gear was a lot heavier.
Programbo
03-24-2008, 21:04
I started hiking the AT in 1975 as I remember:Nobody used "trail names" "Hike your own hike" was taken seriously. The trail is now very social. The gear was a lot heavier.
True about "trail names"..Not sure when they became the norm.."Hike Your Own Hike"???? Never heard that term used..Who would you say it to?..There was no internet or any real interaction of people unless you ran into someone on the trail...I think that type slogan wasn`t really needed as it seemed most hikers of that era were cut from the same cloth...The gear was alittle heavier if you compare apples to apples....Now everything is so faddish and follow the leaderish...Can`t even bother taking off your pack to get a drink anymore...Never saw anyone sleeping in a hammock..Never saw anyone using "trekking poles"..HAD to wear jeans..Trail was shorter but harder back then as no one cared about switchbacks or errosion..They`d just go straight up the side of whatever... The biggest change is the internet
fiddlehead
03-24-2008, 21:23
I want to say (from memory) about 30% of the hikers in '77 had trail names.
Could be slightly more or less but they were fun and I'm glad to see they stuck.
I remember the trail as being social. We had our travelers checks get wet and the word VOID came out on them. Other hikers took care of us until we could get to a fairly big town (Gatlinburg) and get it straightened out.
Not having credit cards or ATM machines made for a few different problems.
Met Warren Doyle at "The Place" that year, ('77) i believe it was his 3rd or 4th thru hike. He had a big group with him from U Connecticut. It was one of those supported hikes but they were doing big miles (20+ as i remember)
I think we stayed in 2 hotels in the 1200 miles we did that year. (like i said before, there were lots of free places to stay)
I remember the trail as being social.I remember it that way as well. Why every night around the campfire someone always passed around a hemostat with a joint in it! :eek: :D
Tipi Walter
03-24-2008, 21:42
Now everything is so faddish and follow the leaderish...Can`t even bother taking off your pack to get a drink anymore...
You hit the nail on the head here. This is one of my pet peeves, backpackers who WILL NOT depack nomatter what, they will stop to talk for a moment or two but keep inching forward, always inching forward. Like, do they have a hot iron up against their bungholes? What's the rush?
"Gotta make the miles" has always been an AT mantra, but nowadays it seems to have crossed over into a religious litany. It's like a bad scene from WALL STREET but instead of hearing "Greed is Good," it's now become "Mileage is Everything."
Couple this with the ultralight craze and you have backpacking in the new millenium. They chew off light trips in short increments, god forbid a 60 pound pack for a 10 day trip. Attention spans are drastically lower. And so comes the pep-rally rush to shelters, the yearned-for town trips, and the lightest pack possible with the smallest amount of food.
Almost There
03-24-2008, 21:51
You hit the nail on the head here. This is one of my pet peeves, backpackers who WILL NOT depack nomatter what, they will stop to talk for a moment or two but keep inching forward, always inching forward. Like, do they have a hot iron up against their bungholes? What's the rush?
"Gotta make the miles" has always been an AT mantra, but nowadays it seems to have crossed over into a religious litany. It's like a bad scene from WALL STREET but instead of hearing "Greed is Good," it's now become "Mileage is Everything."
Couple this with the ultralight craze and you have backpacking in the new millenium. They chew off light trips in short increments, god forbid a 60 pound pack for a 10 day trip. Attention spans are drastically lower. And so comes the pep-rally rush to shelters, the yearned-for town trips, and the lightest pack possible with the smallest amount of food.
Well, I've been hiking the AT since 2005 and I don't believe in Sheeple hiking.
I believe in carrying my Osprey Aether 70, my Seedhouse 2 person tent, I've only used a shelter once and that was because there was nowhere to tent. I don't think about how many miles I have to make, I just hike till I'm tired for the day...I like my Jetboil, don't plan on ever cooking out of something catfood came in...I always have a spare clean shirt and shorts, you'll never see me with a rainjacket wrapped around my middle while doing laundry.
Don't get me wrong I don't believe in carrying unecessary stuff, but who determines this other than the backpacker him/herself. I carry what I want, and it has never been too much, except for maybe that first 70lb hike on the AT...I've never actually weighed my pack but am pretty sure completely loaded I am between 30-35lbs.
I believe in pack off breaks and sit down lunches....if you can't make Katahdin in six months doing this then you shouldn't be out trying to do a thru hike....difference between sectioners and thru's in this regard....sectioners are happier!!!;)
I believe in pack off breaks and sit down lunches....if you can't make Katahdin in six months doing this then you shouldn't be out trying to do a thru hike....difference between sectioners and thru's in this regard....sectioners are happier!!!;)
Indeed ... and pack off breaks are helpful for taking care of cathole business.
warren doyle
03-24-2008, 22:13
Interesting thread with many insightful posts.
I feel the biggest impacts/changes on the trail since 1972 have been:
1) Liability
2) Increased government ownership of the trail
3) AT videos of hikers using alcohol and drugs
4) The rise of the outdoor adventure industry
5) More fear (i.e. water sources; river fording) and higher comfort levels in our culture-at-large
6) More emphasis on things rather than thoughts/feelings
7) More emphasis on the use of town hiker services
8) The meanness of the long distance hiking internet websites
9) Informal groups of hikers extolling the use of alcohol at get togethers
10) Less sleeping under the stars and atop summits
How has the Trail changed?
It was MUCH easier to hike in the '70s.
(Of course I was much YOUNGER then. :D
9) Informal groups of hikers extolling the use of alcohol at get togethers
Yeah, no one drank alcohol with their friends in the 60's and 70's. :rolleyes:
Programbo
03-25-2008, 18:12
[quote=warren doyle;575092]
1) Liability
Yeah..Like rerouting the AT a half mile so you can walk under Rt 340 in MD where-as before the trail just crossed the road
2) Increased government ownership of the trail
I`ll consider that a good thing
3) AT videos of hikers using alcohol and drugs
That certainly doesn`t help the image of the "typical" hiker among the general population. Although I can recall people smoking pot back in the 70's
4) The rise of the outdoor adventure industry
Thus the slick Madison Ave marketing that drives many of the modern fads as far as gear
5) More fear (i.e. water sources; river fording) and higher comfort levels in our culture-at-large
True again..I don`t recall many people treating water back then and if anything polution was worse then..Plus the general paranoia about getting bad knees/falling etc that seems to drive many of the pole users
6) More emphasis on things rather than thoughts/feelings
I`ve said many times that lots of these potential thru-hikers seem driven by some sort of reality tv/Survivor mentality where a thru is some sort of set of challenges and tasks one must complete and things they look forward to doing or happening to them..Very little talk of the more pure motives of the 60`s/70`s
7) More emphasis on the use of town hiker services
Only reason I ever visited a town was to resupply. Never stayed in a motel/Inn or hostel (On my long hike)..Now the towns are as much or in some cases more of the lure of the thru..I`ve heard of people in towns every few days it seems
8) The meanness of the long distance hiking internet websites
People are just meaner in general..I have like 8 nieces and nephews in their mid-late teens and I`m always amazed at the hostility, nastiness and general anger of todays youth
9) Informal groups of hikers extolling the use of alcohol at get togethers
Just get togethers in general bother me
10) Less sleeping under the stars and atop summits
I think this gets back to the reason why people are even out there hiking in the first place
Obviously all of this is just my personal opinion and should not be taken to represent the feelings of hikers of any era in general :p
For the worse. And it is still great!
Been in Yellowknife NWT for last couple o weeks. Just seeing this thread....did my thru in 78.
I will agree with most of whats been said.
The one thing I find that is tremendously different, for me is the almost daily reminder that civilization as crept in closer. There are more points of contact along the trail, more road crossings, more hikers, more sounds in the air that are not natural. There is less "pure" wildlife sighting however there are more instances of wildlife-people encounters probably due to wildlife moreso than ever; associating people with food.
All in all, I think we have a better, more protected trail. There is FAR less road walking than back then and most of the trail is now in good control. I think the ongoing quest now is to practice, teach and police the leave no trace ethic. Because with more people using the resource the percentages rise and therfore your going to still have those who disrespect the path out there.
^^^^ Good post, Hiker7s. ^^^^
Jim Adams
03-26-2008, 09:21
Had any bear cables been installed in the 1970s?
there were no bear cables in 1990.
only mechanical hanging devises that I remember from 1990 were the poles in SNP.
geek
Lone Wolf
03-26-2008, 09:22
pinata holders
I have to agree completely with Frolicking Dinasaurs. I did not hike the trail in the 70's (I was but a young lad then) but thru hiked in 2006. One statement you made in your post really hit home for me..
You said...
My take is that the trail has become more crowded. Hiking the AT has become more about the party and socializing than about views, vistas and challenging oneself. The trail is way overused in places - something that was rare in the 1970s.
I find this very sad. While the former is important the latter (views, vistas, challenge) is no less important). How many folks I saw just zip over summits and barely taken in a vista, then crowd around in shelters, or spend days drinking in a town. I met very few people.. very very few...who actually expressed an appreciation for the land and the wilderness they walked through. It was not the AT that I had read about and hoped to find.
I have no plans... no desire ..to hike the AT again (except for small sections..mostly in northern New England, the best part of the trail). I am ready for other trails were people still hike for the views, vistas, challenge, and solitude. Where the trail is not over run.
DavidNH ('06 trail name Snickers)
I can remember camping out with my neighbor in his dad's old Army pup tent, you know the old kind made of canvas with wood and brass tent poles, I bet it had to weigh close to twenty pounds.
We used those in boyscouts. THe mantra was "DON'T TOUCH THE TENT!". Otherwise it leaked all night.
Great thread. I can't really offer any comparison to today since all my hiking on the AT was back in the early 70's. I check in here at WB mostly because in spite of the passing years my AT experience is still vivid and I'm toying with the idea of a thru hike on retirement (soon!)
Maine was a real challenge in June '73. Wet and wicked buggy. Oh, the fond memories! I did enjoy breakfast at a place called Bodfish Farm. The old farmer invited me in, went out too the chicken coop and grabbed a couple eggs, put some of the thickest tastiest bacon I've ever tasted on the plate and I joined the family for breakfast. I'm thinking they don't do that anymore, but such trail magic still exists from what I read here on WB.
All this kvetching about how the good ole days were better, and the previous generation were harder..blah, blah, blah.
Here's something I wrote on PCT-L last year:
"Children today are tyrants. They contradict their parents, gobble theirfood, and tyrannize their teachers."--Socrates
No, it is not just being lazy. Every generation decries the previous generation. I am sure the WW2 generation were told to buck it up, and quit sniveling by their parents as well. I see people my age (early 30s) talk about how kids today aren't as tough. Huh?
There are many, many reasons why back country use is down. Different goals,more an emphasis on squeezing things into a weekend, other forms ofrecreation, etc.
But to place in a generational context is old hat..and just as incorrect in2007 AD as it was in 400 BC.
********************
And as some you continue to kvetch, I am planning my week ahead. I am finally over the flu, the weather is great, and the mountains call.
Get out and hike now...you'll feel better. :)
NorthCountryWoods
03-26-2008, 13:01
I find this very sad. While the former is important the latter (views, vistas, challenge) is no less important). How many folks I saw just zip over summits and barely taken in a vista, then crowd around in shelters, or spend days drinking in a town. I met very few people.. very very few...who actually expressed an appreciation for the land and the wilderness they walked through. It was not the AT that I had read about and hoped to find.
I have no plans... no desire ..to hike the AT again (except for small sections..mostly in northern New England, the best part of the trail). I am ready for other trails were people still hike for the views, vistas, challenge, and solitude. Where the trail is not over run.
DavidNH ('06 trail name Snickers)
I'm with you on this. Too much emphasis on the human aspects of the trail as opposed to the natural ones.
Go north or west and you can still find wild places. Unfortunately, the AT is more of a social experiment slowly circling the drain. Discouraging to say the least. :(
I'm with you on this. Too much emphasis on the human aspects of the trail as opposed to the natural ones.
Go north or west and you can still find wild places. Unfortunately, the AT is more of a social experiment slowly circling the drain. Discouraging to say the least. :(
Having lurked here and for a couple years reading (rarely posting) and having picked up bits here and there concerning the AT, I've sadly decided your view likely mirrors my own. Those that say we're lost in some nostalgia... well they didn't know what the trail was like when few were on it. I hiked (and still hike) for the challenge, the communion with nature, the peace and solitude. Just look at all the supposed "hikers" with iPods glued to their heads... there are some things I'm glad I'll never "get."
The East is too crowded for me and threads like this help me remember why I left...
So what's the solution, for those who regret the changes in the A.T. since the 1970s?
Is it possible to hike the A.T., maybe SOBO, flip flopping, or skipping shelters and towns yourself, to HYOH without the peer pressure?
Or hike the GET (PA's Mid State Trail, part of the GET, slightly longer than VT's Long Trail, so far has zero (0) known thru-hikers of its current extent), knowing that some of the conditions of the A.T. in the 1960s/70s still apply there (subject to closure at the whim of a landowner, a few more roadwalks, no shelters most of the way to choose to skip, no support structure of hostels/shuttlers/trail magic practitioners)?
Or?
Tipi Walter
03-27-2008, 08:20
The East is too crowded for me and threads like this help me remember why I left...
I was living in Kansas and Oklahoma when the call of the wild hit, yet it wasn't until I moved to the mountains of North Carolina that I really hit the woods in earnest. But I agree with you, and I'd suggest to the young bucks out here living in the East: Get your tent and backpack and go West, young nylon-pumpers!
If I was younger I'd seriously consider Montana/Idaho for living out, for setting up another Tipi with a woodstove, for finding vast areas open to backpacking. The east's air is heavily polluted, there are hardly any wilderness areas big enough to really explore but heck, I'm loading up my pack as we speak and getting ready for another backpacking trip in the TN/NC mountains, so it can't be all that bad.
I was living in Kansas and Oklahoma when the call of the wild hit, yet it wasn't until I moved to the mountains of North Carolina that I really hit the woods in earnest. But I agree with you, and I'd suggest to the young bucks out here living in the East: Get your tent and backpack and go West, young nylon-pumpers!
If I was younger I'd seriously consider Montana/Idaho for living out, for setting up another Tipi with a woodstove, for finding vast areas open to backpacking. The east's air is heavily polluted, there are hardly any wilderness areas big enough to really explore but heck, I'm loading up my pack as we speak and getting ready for another backpacking trip in the TN/NC mountains, so it can't be all that bad.
I've wandered on trails east and west, north and south, for decades. All are wonderful, all different. The only way to experience the unique eastern forest is by hiking in the east, both north and south.
Think of the Appalachian Trail as a way to easily sample some of the best of the eastern landscape.
Those who have no desire to experience wildness, but only want to escape seeing people, may wish to hide elsewhere. But the eastern forest and hills can't be found anyplace but here.
True, hikers increasingly have no desire to enjoy wildness, but are enthralled with the idea of a six month party, broken up by walks with new found buddies in the woods.
But no one is forced to party. It's a choice. As is enjoyment of the natural eastern landscape, plants, flowers and wildlife, that only the trail provides, so well, and so conveniently.
Weary
sherrill
03-27-2008, 10:58
I did my thru in 83, and just did a section at Standing Indian this weekend.
What really struck me was how noisy the military jets were overhead. Don't remember that (but then again, my memory was never great).
tlbj6142
03-27-2008, 12:18
But no one is forced to party. It's a choice. Amen. I think the town stops, "parties" and "the people" get way more "mentions" than the outdoors/wilderness aspects of the AT; however, that doesn't mean it can't be found. It just means it isn't talked about. Which is sort of sad.
Since every AT creek, rock and road crossing is painstakingly documented, it seems as though AT thru hiking can become more like grocery shopping list. All pre-printed before you even leave home. "Arrive at Springer. Check" "Send stuff home at neels gap. check" "Stay at Miss Janets. Check." ...."Attend Trail Days. Check", "Eat ice cream. Check", "Stay at Shaws. Check.", etc. I'm sure in the "olden days", a bit of food logistics was all that was done prior to leaving. The rest just sort of happened without any pre-knowledge and/or planning.
Not that I want to hijack this thread, but I think this is sort of related...
One thing I have noticed (in my myopic world) it seems that you rarely see hikers complete an AT thru, then a PCT thru, and want to do the AT again. Yet, there are several that have done the opposite (AT --> PCT*X). Why? Could it be that in spite of "that Internet" there is still a bit of adventure on the PCT? Or is it just that the PCT "attracts" different types of personalities than the AT? Both?
Almost There
03-27-2008, 12:25
Amen. I think the town stops, "parties" and "the people" get way more "mentions" than the outdoors/wilderness aspects of the AT; however, that doesn't mean it can't be found. It just means it isn't talked about. Which is sort of sad.
Since every AT creek, rock and road crossing is painstakingly documented, it seems as though AT thru hiking can become more like grocery shopping list. All pre-printed before you even leave home. "Arrive at Springer. Check" "Send stuff home at neels gap. check" "Stay at Miss Janets. Check." ...."Attend Trail Days. Check", "Eat ice cream. Check", "Stay at Shaws. Check.", etc. I'm sure in the "olden days", a bit of food logistics was all that was done prior to leaving. The rest just sort of happened without any pre-knowledge and/or planning.
Not that I want to hijack this thread, but I think this is sort of related...
One thing I have noticed (in my myopic world) it seems that you rarely see hikers complete an AT thru, then a PCT thru, and want to do the AT again. Yet, there are several that have done the opposite (AT --> PCT*X). Why? Could it be that in spite of "that Internet" there is still a bit of adventure on the PCT? Or is it just that the PCT "attracts" different types of personalities than the AT? Both?
Different People, different hikes....not to mention the majority of the country has never heard of either trail. Of those that have, most have only heard of the AT, once they get into planning they usually have heard of all three major trails, but the AT is the granddaddy, and so people head east first, for the most part. I'm guessing most people doing the PCT first are from the west.
tlbj6142
03-27-2008, 12:32
Different People, different hikes....not to mention the majority of the country has never heard of either trail. Of those that have, most have only heard of the AT, once they get into planning they usually have heard of all three major trails, but the AT is the granddaddy, and so people head east first, for the most part. I'm guessing most people doing the PCT first are from the west.It isn't so much about which one you do "first", but which one is repeated after you have done both.
Things ain't what they used to be and probably never was. ~Will Rogers
The East is too crowded for me and threads like this help me remember why I left...
I think that the AT itself is crowded...not the East in general. I grew up in New Jersey, and most of my hikes in the DWG, the Catskills, and in the parks of Morris & Sussex County were full of solitude, I would rarely see another person even on a nice weekend in the summer. Once you hit the AT, though, that changes entirely.
I did a 6 day backpack through the Smokies in the Fall of '06, and I saw maybe 1 or 2 locals dayhiking during the day, and I camped with other people (at a designated CS) only once. I had to use the AT to complete my loop and get back to my car, and I swear, in 5 miles, I saw at least 25 hikers on the trail. The other 60 miles of trail I did I saw less than 10 people total. In 5 days.
I don't know if anyone else has noticed this.
Almost There
03-27-2008, 13:13
It isn't so much about which one you do "first", but which one is repeated after you have done both.
The AT is more likely to attract people who are likely to do it once...but more people hike it. The PCT on the other hand attracts many who have already done the AT, it also tends to attract less hikers, for one timing is key with the desert and High Sierras, logistics, etc. Not to say PCT hikers aren't social, but it isn't about the social experience of town stops, etc.
I don't think most hikers on the AT start off that way, but many end up that way...how many stories have we heard of people being sucked into Gatlinburg for days? These aren't the types that end up on the PCT.
The AT is more likely to attract people who are likely to do it once...but more people hike it. The PCT on the other hand attracts many who have already done the AT, it also tends to attract less hikers, for one timing is key with the desert and High Sierras, logistics, etc. Not to say PCT hikers aren't social, but it isn't about the social experience of town stops, etc.
I don't think most hikers on the AT start off that way, but many end up that way...how many stories have we heard of people being sucked into Gatlinburg for days? These aren't the types that end up on the PCT.
Probably most of the AT and PCT thru-hikers eventually move on to the CDT (or stop thu-hiking). I haven't noticed a trend to where people go after they've hiked both. Having done both, I'd like to do both again, not sure which I'd wanna hike first. I'd like to re-do the AT some day and experience different places and seasons and feelings, but it'd be hard to go back after experiencing the beauty of the west, the weather and the ease of trails.
Both trails offer so many unique factors. The AT can certainly be enjoyed as long as you know it's not a wilderness experience.The people and the towns and the hostels give it character. And you appreciate the good views more; you've worked harder for them and they can be seldom seen. The PCT is more jaw-dropping awe inspiring beauty 75 % of the time.
tlbj6142
03-27-2008, 13:23
The other 60 miles of trail I did I saw less than 10 people total. In 5 days. I don't know if anyone else has noticed this.I have (mostly on my trips in the Smokies). There are probably several reasons...
It is the AT. That alone attracts some.
Over documentation. The fact that I can, with very little effort, obtain free and/or nearly free detailed maps and descriptions of every inch of the trail adds quite a bit of comfort for many hikers.
Because it is the AT, there are typically more "support" services available. Shuttles, hostels, mail drops, fuel vendors, etc. making trip logistics much easier. This is a big issue for those that have to travel some distance to reach the trail.
Some folks don't like to hike alone. Even if they say they do.
Shelters (?). For many knowing they will have a place to setup camp, even if they just tent nearby, relieves some anxiety.I'm sure there are other reasons. For me, I section hike the AT for reasons #2 and #3 over hiking other trails. #1 isn't that important to me and neither is #5 unless I was with a larger group (with my kids??) where I know I'd need some "space" to setup camp. As a solo hiker, just about any place will do. Even more so if I bring my hammock.
tlbj6142
03-27-2008, 13:33
I'd like to re-do the AT some day and experience different places and seasons and feelings, but it'd be hard to go back after experiencing the beauty of the west, the weather and the ease of trails. I've often wondered about this. Would as many folks hike the AT if they were "fully informed" about their other options? Or do they hike the AT 'cause that's all they know? Or, at least, know a little more. I, for one, only knew about the AT a several years ago. And had barely heard of the PCT. But after reading Chris' PCT journal and reading more about the PCT, their ain't no way I'd thru hike the AT over the PCT. That said, I'll never do either.
Would you buy a KIA if you could get a Toyota for the same price?
Almost There
03-27-2008, 13:40
I've often wondered about this. Would as many folks hike the AT if they were "fully informed" about their other options? Or do they hike the AT 'cause that's all they know? Or, at least, know a little more. I, for one, only knew about the AT a several years ago. And had barely heard of the PCT. But after reading Chris' PCT journal and reading more about the PCT, their ain't no way I'd thru hike the AT over the PCT. That said, I'll never do either.
Would you buy a KIA if you could get a Toyota for the same price?
That's what I'm saying....seeing as I've already hiked almost half the AT in sections, if I had the time to do a thru, I would seriously consider doing the PCT and finishing the AT in sections...although the CDT also holds a certain attraction!:-?
I've often wondered about this. Would as many folks hike the AT if they were "fully informed" about their other options? Or do they hike the AT 'cause that's all they know? Or, at least, know a little more. I, for one, only knew about the AT a several years ago. And had barely heard of the PCT. But after reading Chris' PCT journal and reading more about the PCT, their ain't no way I'd thru hike the AT over the PCT. That said, I'll never do either.
Would you buy a KIA if you could get a Toyota for the same price?
Many of my Western friends who hiked the PCT as their first long distance hike have no interest in hiking the AT.
That might tell you something.
People like Yogi, Scott Williamson and Billy Goat are triple crowners and all return to one trail over and over again...
tlbj6142
03-27-2008, 14:26
Many of my Western friends who hiked the PCT as their first long distance hike have no interest in hiking the AT. People like Yogi, Scott Williamson and Billy Goat are triple crowners and all return to one trail over and over again...That is exactly what (and who) I was talking about. There are a few repeat AT hikers, but how many of those have hiked the PCT?
Now that we (I) have completely hijacked this thread, I'll restate a question I mentioned a few posts ago. If the PCT is the place to hike, why is the AT more popular for thru-hikers? In this day and age I don't buy the "granddaddy" argument. Since the majority of thru hikers are post-HS and/or post-college aged, "granddaddy" means nothing to them (it almost means nothing to me). If it did, they'd all hike the Long Trail before they hiked the AT.
Could it be as simple as the AT is physically closer to more people than the PCT so more folks "talk about" the AT than the PCT? Thereby blocking the PCT "message" to potential thru-hikers? If so, does this mean that many AT thru-hikers are not "fully informed" about their choices before they leave? So, why are they hiking? I think that is was separates AT from PCT and hence, "party/town" from "wilderness" hikers.
Damn I'm babbling too much...
buff_jeff
03-27-2008, 14:39
That is exactly what (and who) I was talking about. There are a few repeat AT hikers, but how many of those have hiked the PCT?
Now that we (I) have completely hijacked this thread, I'll restate a question I mentioned a few posts ago. If the PCT is the place to hike, why is the AT more popular for thru-hikers? In this day and age I don't buy the "granddaddy" argument. Since the majority of thru hikers are post-HS and/or post-college aged, "granddaddy" means nothing to them (it almost means nothing to me). If it did, they'd all hike the Long Trail before they hiked the AT.
Could it be as simple as the AT is physically closer to more people than the PCT so more folks "talk about" the AT than the PCT? Thereby blocking the PCT "message" to potential thru-hikers? If so, does this mean that many AT thru-hikers are not "fully informed" about their choices before they leave? So, why are they hiking? I think that is was separates AT from PCT and hence, "party/town" from "wilderness" hikers.
Damn I'm babbling too much...
I think it's a combination of people being physically closer to the trail and the fact that it is logistically easier. I also think that the fact that it is the most famous trail holds sway with some people. All three trails are good for what they are. I want to do all of them one day. I don't know if that is feasible for me, but I certainly want to be able to appreciate each for what it is.
Simply:
The greatest population concentration lies closer to the AT than the PCT (or CDT).
Also, the AT has been more publicized in general than other long trails. The PCT has no National bestseller 'Walk in the Woods' type novel to bring fame and attention.
And, the majority of people who want to break into long-distance hiking aren't experienced. The AT is an obvious natural choice for breaking in. A chance to "get away" yet still have lots of support and others near you.
The PCT has gotten a lot more crowded in the past few years and it has taken on some of that social aspect, but it probably scares off people. Starting in 700 miles of desert with long waterless stretches can probably illicit fear and angst in a lot of inexperienced hikers. It did for me!
tlbj6142
03-27-2008, 15:02
Starting in 700 miles of desert with long waterless stretches can probably illicit fear and angst in a lot of inexperienced hikers. It did for me! have zero experience with long waterless days, but for some reason the idea doesn't bother me all that much. It is the crazy stream crossings in the Sierras that bother me the most. I blame Lion King.
fiddlehead
03-28-2008, 00:05
I think people have more fear of the PCT than the AT and perhaps rightly so.
The resupply possibilities are further apart, meaning the safety net is further away. and that also means you have to carry more food.
The desert section means you have to either carry more water or learn how to find water in the desert or, learn the art of cameling up. these things are not necessary on the AT where water is much more plentiful.
Then there's the Sierras and the snow and the even longer distance between resupply. You must use your head or a maildrop at Vermillion Valley. Also ice ax is usually necessary and that's a scary thing perhaps for people who are not experienced. (Cindy Ross' book about the PCT scared a lot of people as she made such a big deal of a fall she had near Carson pass i think it was)
The trail is longer. and yes, more people live near the AT.
All that being said, once you hike the PCT, you find out that a lot of those fears are misguided mostly because it is a lot easier hiking (not steep at all) and you can do much bigger miles. You don't need to worry about rain much at all, at least for the first 1700 miles. There definitely is a whole lot more beauty.
Yes, after doing both, it is hard to imagine going back to the AT if you have a choice, unless of course if you live right near the trail and are not doing the whole thing.
I alwasy think that there's things to be learned on each of the 3 trails:
AT=less is more (simplify your gear), hiking tough terrain, learning the art of resupplying with the 100 mile wilderness being the final test (NOBO anyway)
PCT= finding water in the desert, cameling up, longer resupply, snow travel, dry camping (meaning not near a water source)
CDT=hiking without a trail, map reading and compass/gps skills, refine that desert experience with choices for water supplies that so often requires bushwhacking, choices, choices, choices, and that means thinking for yourself rather than following blazes or footprints and even guidebooks. I know very few people who start out on the CDT (as their first hike) and successfully thru hike it. (although there was one more of those last year with Vicki (Rainman's girlfriend) who did just that.
To me, the CDT is the one that I would, and have, gone back to as it gives one the most freedom and makes you think more about your hike rather than just what hotel/hostel your friends will be in and when you better hit town to join up with them and all that crap that goes on on the AT. Don't get me wrong, some people love that and hike the AT over and over perhaps just for that reason. It's just not MY style anymore although i'm glad to get out on it and do some hiking whenever i go back home for a visit.
One thing I have noticed (in my myopic world) it seems that you rarely see hikers complete an AT thru, then a PCT thru, and want to do the AT again. Yet, there are several that have done the opposite (AT --> PCT*X). Why? Could it be that in spite of "that Internet" there is still a bit of adventure on the PCT? Or is it just that the PCT "attracts" different types of personalities than the AT? Both?
I found the AT, overall, somewhat disappointing as a "visual spectacle." But then, I'd hiked extensively in the Whites and climbed Katahdin twice before I attempted a thru-hike. The photos I've seen of the PCT and CDT --- now that's kinda my fantasy of what a real "thru-hiking adventure" would look like.
I can take or leave the social scene on the AT. Except for the first seven hundred miles or so, I mostly did without it. But I think that's more a section-hiker vs. thru-hiker thing.
I'm highly attracted to the PCT, but seeing as how I live in the east, it's not likely that I'll ever finish it. I was able to finish the AT mostly because it was closer to home.
As a person who has done the "Big 3" trails (mind you that and $2 gets me a cup of coffee :) ), I do not know so much I want to re-hike the AT again, but I would love to do another long hike back East.
I love living out West. The large vistas, the wide open spaces, I have access to not only the mountains I love but also to canyon country with its desolate, but almost other-wordly beauty.
But there is something beautiful aout the East. The intense smell of the vegetation, the sheer amount of green and water, the deep and mysterious forests.
Would I hike the AT again? I dunno. But I have been looking at the Benton Mackaye Trail, would love to re-hike New England and follow the Fall foliage. Seeing wild flower season in the southern Appalachians is also my list. And part of me is curious. I have a lighter pack and I am in better shape than 10 yrs ago. What would it be like to hike the AT today?
There is beauty in all parts of the country. I love the West, but I'd be foolish to ignore the majesty that is back East, too.
buff_jeff
03-28-2008, 10:26
I found the AT, overall, somewhat disappointing as a "visual spectacle." But then, I'd hiked extensively in the Whites and climbed Katahdin twice before I attempted a thru-hike. The photos I've seen of the PCT and CDT --- now that's kinda my fantasy of what a real "thru-hiking adventure" would look like.
I can take or leave the social scene on the AT. Except for the first seven hundred miles or so, I mostly did without it. But I think that's more a section-hiker vs. thru-hiker thing.
I'm highly attracted to the PCT, but seeing as how I live in the east, it's not likely that I'll ever finish it. I was able to finish the AT mostly because it was closer to home.
I'm in essentially the same position. I'm sectioning the AT and I *should* be done by the time I graduate. After that I won't really have any opportunities to do longer stretches of trail anyway, let alone out west, but I am looking into doing the JMT. I think it would give me a good taste of hiking out west.
Lion King
03-28-2008, 12:06
have zero experience with long waterless days, but for some reason the idea doesn't bother me all that much. It is the crazy stream crossings in the Sierras that bother me the most. I blame Lion King.
heehee.
Its only that bad in high snow years...this year for instance may be dangerous and I sorta worry about my CDT/Colorado trail segment I have to cross....although I look forward to it (See Fiddles comments)
I did the JMT in 2002 in late August/Sept and the rivers were ankle deep at the worst so it depends on timing
tlbj6142
03-28-2008, 13:28
Its only that bad in high snow years.Where is the PCT snow depth report? My brother is doing a PCT thru this year and I want to give our mother something to worry about.:D
I did the JMT in 2002 in late August/Sept and the rivers were ankle deep at the worst so it depends on timingUnderstood, but most PCT thru hikers are in the Sierra's in mid-to-late June.
FWIW, I showed my wife your video of the stream crossing on the PCT. I, then, told her that that section is where I'm going to take her in a couple of years. :eek:I had to find a August/Sept pic of the same stream crossing to relieve her concerns.
earlyriser26
01-20-2014, 11:30
Much easier now. I still have an old list of the 14 days worth of heavy food I carried in Maine in 1971. You don't see too many people with 80 Lb. packs these days. The only services were for non-hikers. Best thing was that "trail magic" was real and not a planned event.
Did Springer to Front Royal in 78. Let just say one best have their own shelter back than. Finished up in 82. Lots more road walking, a lot less people, more open fires out of necessity to dry stuff out. Never heard of ultra light back then. Know for a fact I couldn't carry the weight I was then now. Do not remember anyone using anything but a stick for a trecking pole. These days I use one. Even carried canned food until I figured out to put the contents in plastic bags. And believe it r not were even ripper in smell tan one get today. Also wool was defintly necessary. Sill prefer smart wool today. Back than it wasn't smart. Just warm.
Sandy of PA
01-20-2014, 22:07
First walk on the AT thru PA in 1969. Did it again in 2011, the trees were much bigger! Back then we carried all the food for the whole section, 17 days. Lucky I was a little kid so only packed my sleep gear and clothes and water bottle.
Odd Man Out
01-21-2014, 11:30
I doubt that I will ever be in a position to devote 5 months to thru hiking any trail. For me I am shopping for week-long hikes to get me out doors and in shape. I like diversity so it seems silly to me to consider going back to the same destination over and over again when I could do something different and relish the unique qualities of each destination. Right now my short list includes the northern loop in Mr. Rainier NP, the High Sierra Trail, the Superior Hiking Trail, the Grand Canyon, and of course, the AT. Too many trails and not enough time. Sure some of these might be like hiking equivalent of the Dan Ryan at rush hour, but I won't let "my wilderness is more wild than your wilderness" arguments diminish my fun.
Looks to me like there are more mice in the sheters, more bear sighting and sadly more self-centered "I'm a THRU HIKER" attitude.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk
full conditions
01-21-2014, 13:03
This may have already been addressed but since the ‘70’s the National Park Service and the ATC have made some fairly massive land purchases that have both removed the vast majority of road walks that existed back then and protected the viewscape. All to the better. Additionally, other agencies like the US Forest Service or state parks are far less likely to make any management decisions that would adversely affect the trail.
That’s the good news. And it reminds me of a time when I overheard my father telling someone that he wished he could hike the trail with me because he guessed that within a decade or so it would be gone or at least so fragmented and degraded as to be unrecognizable. He was wrong.
The bad news is that clearly some portions of the trail are overused and some resources are regularly abused in ways that were unimaginable in 1976. Additionally, the hoard of Spring thru hikers pushing thru the Smokies reminds me of photos from the Haj in Mecca – obviously not a problem for some but enough to keep me off the AT between March and May. There have been murders, rapes, and assaults and the White Blaze forum regularly has threads regarding some shady character or another to avoid. The fame and popularity of the AT has been both blessing and curse. I moved here to be close to the trail for the rest of my life and it remains extraordinarily important to me and I have to remind myself that for each person setting out on a hike of any length but especially a thru hike, its still all new and wondrous for them.
4eyedbuzzard
01-21-2014, 13:14
A LOT more people hike than in the 70's, especially the early part of the decade. Hiking was in a big growth stage from the mid 60's through early 80's. Blame and/or credit as you wish Dupont (nylon), ALCOA (aluminum), Dick Kelty (pack design), Ed Garvey, Colin Fletcher, et al (popularization), the "back to nature" and health movement(s), and the often "dreaded government" (National Trails Act of 1968). There was a huge influence by manufacturers as they applied technological advances to hiking gear, making gear better performing, lighter and as a result less strenuous and more enjoyable. Never underestimate the impact nylon and aluminum and manufacturing technology had on backpacking. Many people just wouldn't do it today with the weight of gear that needed to be carried back then. Weights for most gear items in the early 70's were double or more what they have evolved to today.
There used to be an unwritten "code" of sorts, that we hikers needed to represent the hiking community and present it in a favorable light to people in towns and such so that hikers were viewed in a good way by local town people. I think that there are unfortunately more hikers today that present a less than desirable appearance and attitude (not just looks, also the partying and the entitled thru-hiker syndrome), which hurts the reputation of the hiking community.
Furlough
01-21-2014, 14:55
Less wool, flannel, blue jeans and....... hair.
Kerosene
01-21-2014, 15:17
This may have already been addressed but since the ‘70’s the National Park Service and the ATC have made some fairly massive land purchases that have both removed the vast majority of road walks that existed back then and protected the viewscape.Reminds me of the 3rd day of my first AT section hike in April 1973:
We left the woods for a paved road, which passed an endless number of fairly new houses. The only unusual thing was that nobody was in sight, not even a dog. Another unusual thing; each house had at least one wall smashed in! We thought that someone might have had a war while we were away! After a mile of this destruction we found a solitary person who told us that the houses were being left to nature by the state conservation agency. Whatever the reason, we were more than happy when we got to the end of the road and its ghosts of houses.
This was north of Blairstown Road in New Jersey. I've always wondered what happened to those houses.
Kerosene
01-21-2014, 15:19
Less wool, flannel, blue jeans and....... hair.No kidding. Check me out near the end of my first section hike in April 1973 as a 15-year old!
25659
When the heck did the term shuttle driver come into play anyway? Come to think of it more than once back in the 70's early 80's the person picking up the smelly hiker often was the one with some weed. Also, don't remember anyone lugging around a camera. Might add however mot of the younger hikers today I find to be pretty good people. Basicly not much different than back in the day. The trail is till safe and the lifestyle still is only going to be for certain types of people. Hey word of a good thing gets out. Some positive changes have happened too. We no longer just put the campfire wherever we want. Stuff like that Leave no trace. Back in the day when I got shakey cold I made a fire. Kinda had to when the weather allowed.
HikerMom58
01-21-2014, 16:50
No kidding. Check me out near the end of my first section hike in April 1973 as a 15-year old!
25659
Ha Ha!! That's a great picture! :)
Different Socks
01-21-2014, 18:05
You can get pizza delivered to the trail!!
My first section hike on the AT was in 1970. Two years later was my first thru hike. I still do section hikes when I can. Here are a few of the changes I’ve seen. Good & bad.
Erosion in some place has worn the trail down to the rocks below.
In 72 a lot of the shelters had a garbage pit nearby.
In the 70’s I was usually the only person at the shelter. Now that’s rare.
Trail magic was really magic. There were no organized hiker feeds.
In Damascus I talked with a couple guys who lived nearby that didn’t even know that there was a trail passing through town.
It was a lot easier to get lost in the 70’s.
A lot of the trail was on private land. In more than one instance a land owner had closed the trail on his property. Another time the trail crossed a strip mine and all the trees, and trail markings, had been bulldozed.
The road walks are gone. Instead of four hostels on the entire trail there are hostels almost every forty miles —even in the 100 mile wilderness.
In the north there is an amazing amount of trail and privy maintenance—-especially in the bog areas.
A lot of erosion on the verticals.
What is fun in Maine is to compare areas with iron to those without.
Some areas with old iron look look so mild compared to the way the trail is now (due to erosion and over use).
A lot more people. :).
4eyedbuzzard
12-23-2019, 23:14
I started hiking the AT in 1975 as I remember:
Nobody used "trail names"...
True about "trail names"..Not sure when they became the norm..
Of course, back in the pre internet pre cell phone era, the only way to contact someone on the trail was to get a ranger or hiking club member to post a message at a trail head bulletin board or try to find you via entries in trailhead and shelter registers. So, we all pretty much used our real names. There wasn't any fear of identity theft or such either, so leaving your real name and date wasn't a big deal.
I don't remember hearing trail names until maybe mid to late 1980's, coinciding with Dan Bruce, "Wingfoot"'s arrival on the AT - both on the trail and then in print. After that, it seemed everybody WANTED one and HAD one - whether it was given to them by others (the traditional route) or choosing their own. But, FWIW, ATC records lists the first recorded thru-hiker trail name in 1959 - James L. Burson of GA, using trail name "Dusty". There are a few more listed in the ATC's thru-hiker record here and there between then and the mid-80's, but that's when it seems to have become mainstream.
Randy Watson
12-24-2019, 06:25
Lyme disease
Tipi Walter
12-24-2019, 10:21
No kidding. Check me out near the end of my first section hike in April 1973 as a 15-year old!
25659
Thanks for the pic and the memories. Problem is, me and my backpacking buddies in those days never carried film cameras and so pictures were rare.
I was backpacking on the AT near Watauga Lake when this pic was taken in the mid 1980s---old North Face Westwind tent, blue jeans, field jacket fiberfill insert jacket, Nam-style jungle boots---even a dang campfire which I never build nowadays.
https://photos.smugmug.com/Gear-TheSevenHolyNylons/Backpacks-Pumping-Nylon/i-4HFMJ2W/0/e726d815/L/Tipi%20Walter%20Camping%20at%20Laurel%20Falls%20on %20AT%2C-L.jpg
In them days I was based out of Boone NC---close to the AT---and Boone had a local backpacking store called Footsloggers---open since the early 1970s---and closed a couple years ago.
Footsloggers carried North Face stuff and so I was spoiled early with some outstanding gear---a couple NF sleeping bags, NF tents and NF backpack. One of my first bags was a Bigfoot polarguard brand new at $65.00 in 1977---and receipt signed by Hanes---original owner of store.
https://photos.smugmug.com/BooneYears/Tipi-Life/i-ZG6Hdjh/0/4ffa90e0/L/Footsloggers%201977-L.jpg
and Boone had a local backpacking store called Footsloggers---open since the early 1970s---and closed a couple years ago.
footsloggers is still open.....
i went into the downtown one earlier this year.....
Ownership of footsloggers has changed....
old owner sold---a new owner had it for a bit then closed, and now it as another new owner...
How about 15 cent drafts at the fire station in Pt. Clinton and 25 cent drafts at the Mt. Springs Tavern in Swatara Gap. $14/night for bunk and meal at the AMC huts in the Whites. These were 1976 prices. Here is a picture of my brother on Little Bigelow, June 30, 1976, wearing army fatigues and Galibier Vercours boots. We carried 40 to 50 pounds in our monster packs. I had a huge REI and my brother's was a Kelty, model A-3 I think with extra pockets.45984
I've been hiking a shorter period of time (about 12 yr.) and even then I've noticed changes. The hikers are younger -maybe 'cause I'm older ;-) -- but even more recently within the last couple of years, the shuttler list has greatly diminished. Folks who used to shuttle, are getting out of the business because of a couple reasons. Hiker attitudes (entitled and rude) and higher gas prices are the two reasons they are leaving that I keep hearing from shuttlers. Anybody else notice this?
Before anyone jumps on me, I don't mean to imply that the young are those with attitude; attitude crosses generational lines.
Other reasons there are fewer shuttlers on the lists:
1) In some places (towns, counties, national parks, etc.) you have to pay for permits to operate a shuttle service nowadays.
2) To protect your assets, you need to have very expensive commercial insurance to operate a shuttle service. In some places there are big hoops to jump through to even qualify to purchase that kind of insurance.
3) The cost of buying/leasing, maintaining, and just operating vehicles has gone through the roof.
4) Some prospective shuttle clients have no idea of the difference between the rural shuttle business and big city taxi companies. They are totally different business models and rarely if ever do you drop off a passenger and get another customer anywhere near that drop-off point--thus you have to charge for a round trip. There is resistance from not an insignificant number of hikers about this.
5) Part time shuttle providers get inundated with requests they can't handle all hours of the day and night.
SWODaddy
12-25-2019, 02:07
Other reasons there are fewer shuttlers on the lists:
1) In some places (towns, counties, national parks, etc.) you have to pay for permits to operate a shuttle service nowadays.
2) To protect your assets, you need to have very expensive commercial insurance to operate a shuttle service. In some places there are big hoops to jump through to even qualify to purchase that kind of insurance.
3) The cost of buying/leasing, maintaining, and just operating vehicles has gone through the roof.
4) Some prospective shuttle clients have no idea of the difference between the rural shuttle business and big city taxi companies. They are totally different business models and rarely if ever do you drop off a passenger and get another customer anywhere near that drop-off point--thus you have to charge for a round trip. There is resistance from not an insignificant number of hikers about this.
5) Part time shuttle providers get inundated with requests they can't handle all hours of the day and night.
If they were in it for money, they're Uber/Lyft drivers now...
Yours truly, Christmas Day 1977, getting ready to leave for a climbing trip in the Presidential’s.
https://i.postimg.cc/cH8h96g8/D27944-C1-107-A-4170-99-B1-8-D79-BB06-FE37.jpg (https://postimg.cc/phRKyWB2)
Traveler
12-26-2019, 11:42
Probably the better question would be, "Besides walking, what hasn't changed on the AT since the 1970's?"
Tipi Walter
12-26-2019, 12:21
Yours truly, Christmas Day 1977, getting ready to leave for a climbing trip in the Presidential’s.
https://i.postimg.cc/cH8h96g8/D27944-C1-107-A-4170-99-B1-8-D79-BB06-FE37.jpg (https://postimg.cc/phRKyWB2)
Excellent pic and shows everything important:: Jansport pack with the hipbelt "wings", old style vintage Ensolite sleeping pad on bottom, Sigg bottle (probably fuel bottle) in water bottle pocket, ginormous top sleeping bag---perhaps clothing or down jacket in other stuff sack etc etc.
Your pic reminds me of hitchhiking from Boone NC to Greensboro NC in 1980 when I was "homeless" and living out of my North Face pack---and like I said---none of us carried cameras back in those days and so the source of this pic had to come from my Mom. My Dad thought I was nuts.
https://photos.smugmug.com/Gear-TheSevenHolyNylons/Backpacks-Pumping-Nylon/i-vNsBKJ9/0/433be8da/XL/scan0006-XL.jpg
I hiked 1000 miles on the AT in 1974 (HF to Andover), beginning the day after I graduated high school. My Dad thought I was nuts too... He said "Son, nobody is going to pay you to hike".
So I got three degrees in geology, and the USGS and a lot of other clients paid me to hike. We even called it "Hiking for dollars" with considerable glee.
And yes, I actually had employers who would take you out bushwacking through steep woods, to see if you were any good at hiking, prior to completing any contracts. Let's face it, people who are "hiker material" are rather rare in today's world... and it is possible to monetize rare skills if you are shrewd (and lucky).