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View Full Version : 40 days and 40 nights on the AT w/no resupply



woodsy
03-24-2008, 17:20
Ouch, can he do it?
http://outside-blog.away.com/blog/2008/03/the-at-golites.html

Lone Wolf
03-24-2008, 17:24
he won't make damascus in 40 days

doggiebag
03-24-2008, 17:28
He's definitely hiking ... not the whole trail. It's a cools concept to see how far he can get with his 127 pound load. His base is only 15. The rest is consumables. It's a interesting hike he's got planned.

Phreak
03-24-2008, 17:28
I doubt he'd make it to the Smokys.

Jack Tarlin
03-24-2008, 17:29
Pretty stupid.

Just went to the link.

I'll bet anyone a drink we don't see a photo of his pack AFTER he's done, cause it's gonna look like someone just blew it up.......which is what happens to G-Lites if you go four pounds over the specs, never mind 80 pounds over.

In any case, even if he succeeds, I'm not sure what this proves. I've met any number of folks who could carry over 100 pounds of gear and food.

So what?

Just cuz something CAN be done doesn't mean it proves anything useful.

This is a publicity stunt, and nothing more, and not a particularly noteworthy one, either.

bullseye
03-24-2008, 17:30
He doesn't have any goals so to speak of other than to spend 40 days on the trail with no resupply. So if he camps in the same spot on the AT w/o resupply for 40 consecutive days he has "succeeded".:-? This is only slightly less dramatic than the whole cowboy thing.:rolleyes:

Jack Tarlin
03-24-2008, 17:35
Actually, the Outside Magazine clip (i.e. press release for the stunt) says he has maps for 1100 miles.

Which would put him almost to Duncannon PA in 40 days after starting with a 127 pound pack.

Um, I don't think so.

woodsy
03-24-2008, 17:36
I carried a 85lb. canoe once for a half mile:rolleyes:
This guy must have more horsepower than me.:D
Good luck to him on his quest.

ChinMusic
03-24-2008, 17:37
3 different kinds of lubrication with different mechanics of delivery because different parts of the body respond better to each and it takes a stick to reach the most important place.


TMI????

Appalachian Tater
03-24-2008, 17:46
He's even carrying an extra sleeping bag to keep his food from freezing, which makes zero sense to me. He is one of the principals of GoLite, and this makes me wonder about the company as a whole, and their products.

winger
03-24-2008, 17:49
Most publicity stunts at least have some credibility or 'real life' application, then again some don't.

weary
03-24-2008, 17:56
aS i'VE recounted in the past, I met a guy carrying 100 pounds on Wyman Mountain in Maine. He arrived at the shelter three or four hours after his girl friend had arrived.

100 pounds is kind of common for canoeists on a carry with canoe and gear. But a typical carry is a half mile or so -- not the 15 miles this guy is planning -- day after day.

I carried the Bow TRip on Maine's Moose River a couple of times. It must be close to a mile. I kept looking for convenient limbs to relieve the weight. But I wasn't very spry the rest of the day.

But a trained human body is capable of surprising things. I vaguely remember hearing that the Sherpas carry such loads on Everest.

Weary

buff_jeff
03-24-2008, 17:57
What a dumbass idea.

envirodiver
03-24-2008, 18:05
Actually, the Outside Magazine clip (i.e. press release for the stunt) says he has maps for 1100 miles.

Which would put him almost to Duncannon PA in 40 days after starting with a 127 pound pack.

Um, I don't think so.

He went on to say that he would be satisfied if he hiked 621 miles. His goal is to break a record of 620 miles.

I still don't get it, but hope he has fun. Better him than me.

With a base weight of 125 lbs. he's carrying 2.8 lbs. of food per day and planning to average (if he only makes 621 miles, which is his minimum) 15.5 miles per day.

The guy must be a beast.

hacksaw
03-24-2008, 18:08
Good Lord, what next.

doggiebag
03-24-2008, 18:10
He went on to say that he would be satisfied if he hiked 621 miles. His goal is to break a record of 620 miles.

I still don't get it, but hope he has fun. Better him than me.

With a base weight of 125 lbs. he's carrying 2.8 lbs. of food per day and planning to average (if he only makes 621 miles, which is his minimum) 15.5 miles per day.

The guy must be a beast.
Going through 2.8 punds of food a day ... that'll bring his load down to 71 lbs after 20 days ... :eek:! Tha's still 71 lbs! Unreal.

Appalachian Tater
03-24-2008, 18:17
He will also be burning a lot more calories than most hikers. I hope he has some fat to lose, too.

Skidsteer
03-24-2008, 18:24
I don't get it.

Why publicize it? It has a tremendous risk of equipment failure with little payoff even if successful.

What if the pack blows up the second day?

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd238/acsskidsteer/Smileys/th_loopy-1.gif (http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd238/acsskidsteer/Smileys/loopy-1.gif)

doggiebag
03-24-2008, 18:28
It's too masochistic ... let alone having to tolerate every well meaning hiker that tells him ... "Dude your carrying too much food..." :D

Appalachian Tater
03-24-2008, 18:33
Apparently he's going to write a book, "Hiking Heavy".

max patch
03-24-2008, 18:40
Dang. We were soo close....we did the Springer/BMT loop after church yesterday. Wish I knew he was in the area; would have liked to have seen that!

Lone Wolf
03-24-2008, 18:45
Dang. We were soo close....we did the Springer/BMT loop after church yesterday. Wish I knew he was in the area; would have liked to have seen that!

he started friday. he should be thru neel gap already

GGS2
03-24-2008, 18:45
Apparently he's going to write a book, "Hiking Heavy".

I guess MS has got him beat on that.

TOW
03-24-2008, 18:47
Ouch, can he do it?
http://outside-blog.away.com/blog/2008/03/the-at-golites.html
i smell me a cow patty here.................:-?

warren doyle
03-24-2008, 18:56
An unusual attempt to expand the boundaries of long distance backpacking.

Distance: 15.5 miles a day for 40 days is doable (i.e., 621 miles).

Weight of pack: Pack failure with the excess weight is probable.

What is the extent of his no resupply? He says he is not going to resupply the entire time/distance. Does that mean he won't be buying any meals along the way (Neels Gap, Wesser, Hot Springs, Erwin, Damascus, Groseclose, Trent's, Pearisburg) as well?

This will be interesting to follow.

OregonHiker
03-24-2008, 18:59
I don't get it.

Why publicize it? It has a tremendous risk of equipment failure with little payoff even if successful.

What if the pack blows up the second day?

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd238/acsskidsteer/Smileys/th_loopy-1.gif (http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd238/acsskidsteer/Smileys/loopy-1.gif)

Wooosh...

Lone Wolf
03-24-2008, 19:00
he shoulda been thru neel gap yesterday. no reports

Tin Man
03-24-2008, 19:07
I hope he didn't pull a Katz!

fiddlehead
03-24-2008, 19:30
Very negative whiteblazers.

Sometimes i think if someone tries to do something that YOU can't do, YOu tend to put it down and say it is stupid or impossible or brainless.

I don't see anything crazy about this. He's trying to set some kind of new record, at the same time he is trying to prove that his pack is up to it. (and maybe that he's not a sheep and can think outside the box)

We shall see. Obviously he's not going to hike his average miles in the first few days.
Anyway, i hope he's smarter than to try that!

I agree the extra sleeping bag is not needed as well as the extra shoes. But he claims his base weight is only 15 lbs so it's not a big deal.

I wish him luck. I'd like to know what he's eating?

Dholmblad
03-24-2008, 19:33
No way hes doing 15+miles a day with a 125lb pack.

CaseyB
03-24-2008, 20:05
I bet this dude eats stuff out of the hiker boxes when nobody else is looking.

woodsy
03-24-2008, 20:10
fiddlehead: Sometimes i think if someone tries to do something that YOU can't do, YOu tend to put it down and say it is stupid or impossible or brainless.

I don't see anything crazy about this. He's trying to set some kind of new record, at the same time he is trying to prove that his pack is up to it. (and maybe that he's not a sheep and can think outside the box)

Yeah, people are always trying to do something that hasn't been done before or is extremely difficult.

It was only about 15 years ago that 2 men crossed the Antarctica continent unsupported for the first time. They started out manhauling 485 lb. sleds each and slowly and agonizingly whittled down their weights. 1500 miles and 90 days later they arrived at their destination, a feat that seemed impossible became a reality.
The book Mind over matter(A Delta book) written by Ranulph Fiennes, one of the two men, is an amazing story of hardship, determination and the will to succeed against all odds.

So, even the most impossible feats can become possible with the right mind(s) and body(s)behind them.
They obviously don't pay much attention to naysayers.

gungho
03-24-2008, 20:12
can't wait to hear about his progress. hopefilly he is alright. The thoughts of carrying over 100lbs makes my knees :eek:

Lone Wolf
03-24-2008, 20:14
can't wait to hear about his progress. hopefilly he is alright. The thoughts of carrying over 100lbs makes my knees :eek:

no leki poles for him. that would be support

Tin Man
03-24-2008, 20:20
Yeah, people are always trying to do something that hasn't been done before or is extremely difficult.

It was only about 15 years ago that 2 men crossed the Antarctica continent unsupported for the first time. They started out manhauling 485 lb. sleds each and slowly and agonizingly whittled down their weights. 1500 miles and 90 days later they arrived at their destination, a feat that seemed impossible became a reality.
The book Mind over matter(A Delta book) written by Ranulph Fiennes, one of the two men, is an amazing story of hardship, determination and the will to succeed against all odds.

So, even the most impossible feats can become possible with the right mind(s) and body(s)behind them.
They obviously don't pay much attention to naysayers.

Putting aside the physical challenges for now. Carrying a 125lb load in a pack designed for a 30-40lb load is not mind over matter. It is trying to break the laws of physics. As BOTH Jack and Warren have stated, pack failure is likely.

Appalachian Tater
03-24-2008, 20:22
It is also hell on your joints. I wouldn't be surprised if he has a couple of herniated discs, knee blow-outs, etc.

Tin Man
03-24-2008, 20:27
I betcha some enterprising hiker could meet him about a mile up the trail and make some big money selling him one of these...

GratefulHike
03-24-2008, 20:39
If he is carryin an extra bag for food not to freeze, what food is he carrying that is gonna freeze???

Skidsteer
03-24-2008, 20:46
If he is carryin an extra bag for food not to freeze, what food is he carrying that is gonna freeze???

Maybe he's not carrying a stove to save weight.

Jeepocachers
03-24-2008, 20:53
I hope he didn't pull a Katz!

HaHa. That's hilarious.

woodsy
03-24-2008, 21:03
Putting aside the physical challenges for now. Carrying a 125lb load in a pack designed for a 30-40lb load is not mind over matter. It is trying to break the laws of physics. As BOTH Jack and Warren have stated, pack failure is likely.
Point is: HYOH Isn't that what most everyone preaches here?:confused::rolleyes::)

take-a-knee
03-24-2008, 21:08
It is also hell on your joints. I wouldn't be surprised if he has a couple of herniated discs, knee blow-outs, etc.

There are quite a few DOD units that do timed movements, day after day after day, over broken terrain, that is few if any trails or roads ( if you are caught on a road you are history), with rucksacks between 50 and 65 lb. PLUS web gear (fighting load , 20#) PLUS an M16. The longest of which I'm aware of is forty miles in twenty hours, all map and compass.
There were units in the first gulf war that had to make some long movements with well in excess of 100 #, at night. It can be done, it has been done many times before.

Tipi Walter
03-24-2008, 21:08
I routinely carry 70-85 pounds on my 10-15 day winter backpacking trips and if I can do it, anyone can. I'm glad to see someone finally backpacking the AT and pretending it's an expedition with no town resupply trips instead of the usual 3-day hikes before hitting a store. I just can't figure why someone from GoLite would be interested in this, ironic. I guess he can't really carry a different pack, something like a big Gregory or Mystery Ranch, gotta go with his brand I guess.

I do like the fotog of his pack loaded down with stuff. It's the only way to travel! I've played around with trip length w/o resupply and my longest with a weight I'm willing to carry is around 21 days, and this is in the winter. A bit longer in the summer.

I'm intrigued with the idea and I applaud him. The last thing I want to see when I'm out is a car(except my car at the end), a store, a busy roadway, or a town. We should all see how long we can stay out w/o resupply. Then, when we backpack into a wilderness area or somewhere in the Nantahalas or Pisgah, we can stay out for a month and earn up a bunch of bag nights.

clured
03-24-2008, 21:11
Drugs?
No.
Booze?
No.
Slowness?
No.
Ease?
No.
Courage?
Yes.

Big X from Whiteblaze!

Tin Man
03-24-2008, 21:16
Point is: HYOH Isn't that what most everyone preaches here?:confused::rolleyes::)

I was referring to fabric and materials of a backpack and the weight they are likely to support before coming apart at the seams or simply bursting down the middle. Has nothing to do with HYOH.

woodsy
03-24-2008, 21:20
I was referring to fabric and materials of a backpack and the weight they are likely to support before coming apart at the seams or simply bursting down the middle. Has nothing to do with HYOH.
Sure it does, quit packsniffin

Tin Man
03-24-2008, 21:24
Sure it does, quit packsniffin

I wish him the best and that he doesn't hurt himself. I just don't think a Go-Lite Pack will stand up to the stress of all that weight. It is a little different than saying he should or should not use a Nalgene.

And if I am packsniffin by commenting here, what are you doing? :)

slow
03-24-2008, 21:47
He will finish in 40.

Skidsteer
03-24-2008, 21:50
He will finish in 40.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd238/acsskidsteer/Smileys/th_haha-1.gif (http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd238/acsskidsteer/Smileys/haha-1.gif)

You're consistent, I'll have to give you that. :D

BitBucket
03-24-2008, 22:05
He'll be up Dicks Creek when the critters get into that 110 pounds of stuff...

slow
03-24-2008, 22:07
Seen on t.v. a man packing out 140# every day from a sulfur mine,for 25yr up a steep 5 mile of loose rock....after a 12hr day of gathering.

What rec could he break?

slow
03-24-2008, 22:20
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd238/acsskidsteer/Smileys/th_haha-1.gif (http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd238/acsskidsteer/Smileys/haha-1.gif)

You're consistent, I'll have to give you that. :D

I just look at the up side:sun

ed bell
03-24-2008, 22:29
I routinely carry 70-85 pounds on my 10-15 day winter backpacking trips and if I can do it, anyone can. I'm glad to see someone finally backpacking the AT and pretending it's an expedition with no town resupply trips instead of the usual 3-day hikes before hitting a store. I just can't figure why someone from GoLite would be interested in this, ironic. I guess he can't really carry a different pack, something like a big Gregory or Mystery Ranch, gotta go with his brand I guess.

I do like the fotog of his pack loaded down with stuff. It's the only way to travel! I've played around with trip length w/o resupply and my longest with a weight I'm willing to carry is around 21 days, and this is in the winter. A bit longer in the summer.

I'm intrigued with the idea and I applaud him. The last thing I want to see when I'm out is a car(except my car at the end), a store, a busy roadway, or a town. We should all see how long we can stay out w/o resupply. Then, when we backpack into a wilderness area or somewhere in the Nantahalas or Pisgah, we can stay out for a month and earn up a bunch of bag nights.Right on, Tipi. Long live the art of backpacking. Carry your supplies and chalk up those bag - nights.:sun

doggiebag
03-24-2008, 22:42
I routinely carry 70-85 pounds on my 10-15 day winter backpacking trips and if I can do it, anyone can. I'm glad to see someone finally backpacking the AT and pretending it's an expedition with no town resupply trips instead of the usual 3-day hikes before hitting a store. I just can't figure why someone from GoLite would be interested in this, ironic. I guess he can't really carry a different pack, something like a big Gregory or Mystery Ranch, gotta go with his brand I guess.

I do like the fotog of his pack loaded down with stuff. It's the only way to travel! I've played around with trip length w/o resupply and my longest with a weight I'm willing to carry is around 21 days, and this is in the winter. A bit longer in the summer.

I'm intrigued with the idea and I applaud him. The last thing I want to see when I'm out is a car(except my car at the end), a store, a busy roadway, or a town. We should all see how long we can stay out w/o resupply. Then, when we backpack into a wilderness area or somewhere in the Nantahalas or Pisgah, we can stay out for a month and earn up a bunch of bag nights.


Right on, Tipi. Long live the art of backpacking. Carry your supplies and chalk up those bag - nights.:sun
I'm still getting the formula down with respect to extended outings without the ease of frequent resupplies. The longest I've been out has been around 10 days without a resupply. I'm working my way up. Slowly but surely. It's nice to see extended self-sufficiency is alive and well. :)

McPick
03-24-2008, 22:44
I betcha some enterprising hiker could meet him about a mile up the trail and make some big money selling him one of these...

Yeah, Tin Man... Or one of these.

Tin Man
03-24-2008, 22:53
Yeah, Tin Man... Or one of these.

I wouldn't mind adding a little helium lifter to my pack.

McPick
03-24-2008, 23:15
Actually, other than this smelling more like a publicity stunt than pack sniffing, the story reminds me of the two young men I met somewhere along the southern portion of the AT in '06. As I came up behind them, their enormous backpacks reminded me of the pickup truck on the "Sanford and Son" TV show. Both of their packs were 'packed' to the max. Plus, they had "tons" of stuff hanging from strings, ropes, laces, bungees, belts and clips on the outside of each pack.

My most vivid memory of them is that each carried two, 1-gallon plastic milk jugs, nearly full of water. The jugs were attached to the packs by straps through the jug handles. Other than those straps, the jugs were not secured to the pack. Just imagine those jugs as they swung side to side. I'm surprised the weight of the water swinging back and forth didn't literally pull them off the trail.

The second thing I recall is that they had one of those large 6-person family tents, which they got on sale at Sears. (What a deal!) One guy carried the tent (still in the box) the other carried the footprint, poles and stakes.

I mean.. I HAD to stop and chat with them. One guy stood, leaning over at the waist, gripping a small tree, breathing real hard. The other guy, bigger, red face and sweating like crazy was standing straight legged, like a weight lifter who just completed a clean and jerk lift, but his legs were involuntarily quivering.

They told me they were surprised by how many hikers had passed them with so little "stuff." I directed them to Whiteblaze.net (http://whiteblaze.net/) and suggested they read up on gear lists, etc. It was mid-afternoon. They were headed for the next shelter, about 5 miles further up the trail, and expected to be there by nightfall. That was my destination, too, so I told them we could talk more at the shelter. I got there a couple of hours later. I never saw them again.

But, hey... Good luck Demetri in the "outcome of your real adventure"!

Hmmm, I wonder what kind of rope he's using to hang the food?

Montego
03-24-2008, 23:50
Actually, other than this smelling more like a publicity stunt than pack sniffing, the story reminds me of the two young men I met somewhere along the southern portion of the AT in '06. As I came up behind them, their enormous backpacks reminded me of the pickup truck on the "Sanford and Son" TV show. Both of their packs were 'packed' to the max. Plus, they had "tons" of stuff hanging from strings, ropes, laces, bungees, belts and clips on the outside of each pack.

My most vivid memory of them is that each carried two, 1-gallon plastic milk jugs, nearly full of water. The jugs were attached to the packs by straps through the jug handles. Other than those straps, the jugs were not secured to the pack. Just imagine those jugs as they swung side to side. I'm surprised the weight of the water swinging back and forth didn't literally pull them off the trail.

The second thing I recall is that they had one of those large 6-person family tents, which they got on sale at Sears. (What a deal!) One guy carried the tent (still in the box) the other carried the footprint, poles and stakes.

I mean.. I HAD to stop and chat with them. One guy stood, leaning over at the waist, gripping a small tree, breathing real hard. The other guy, bigger, red face and sweating like crazy was standing straight legged, like a weight lifter who just completed a clean and jerk lift, but his legs were involuntarily quivering.

They told me they were surprised by how many hikers had passed them with so little "stuff." I directed them to Whiteblaze.net (http://whiteblaze.net/) and suggested they read up on gear lists, etc. It was mid-afternoon. They were headed for the next shelter, about 5 miles further up the trail, and expected to be there by nightfall. That was my destination, too, so I told them we could talk more at the shelter. I got there a couple of hours later. I never saw them again.

But, hey... Good luck Demetri in the "outcome of your real adventure"!

Hmmm, I wonder what kind of rope he's using to hang the food ?
http://www.ship-technology.com/contractor_images/drahtseilwerk/draht3s.jpg (http://www.ship-technology.com/contractors/mooring/drahtseilwerk/drahtseilwerk3.html)

'ya think? :D

88BlueGT
03-25-2008, 00:07
thats the one thing that I don't get... the FOUNDER of GO-LITE carrying an extra sleeping bag just for food!?!? I'm sure he could come up with something requiring less weight and less room than that. How about just getting the longest sleeping bag required and putting your food in the bottom of it. I know it wont hold ALL his food but maybe the food that he plans on eating the day after atleast. The rest he could just do the same each day.

fiddlehead
03-25-2008, 02:06
Anyone notice that he's carrying extra food to accommodate any visitors he might get.
So he's a gentleman too. i bet he's hoping for some visitors.

His quote about his running shoes only lasting 400-500 miles makes me think that he's a runner. They have this theory. I used to get a friend's off-walls after he put 400 miles on them. He'd give them to me instead of throwing them out. They were like brand new to me. I'd usually get another 1,000 out of each pair!

smokymtnsteve
03-25-2008, 02:21
sounds like a dang wierdo to me..

and I should know as it takes one to know one:eek:

JAK
03-25-2008, 08:06
I don't think it is that stupid. Many of us are already hiking while 70# or 80# overweight. The main reason for hiking ultraweight in North America is because most of us are so grossly overweight we don't even have a clue what normal weight is anymore. As long as the dude is lean and fit and has a reasonably strong frame this is very do-able and very reasonable. I would bet that if he is fit enough to hike 40 days on close to 3 pounds of food per day than he should also be fit enough to carry that dwindling load 600 to 800 miles. My bet is he will pass by at least twice as many people as will pass him.

kayak karl
03-25-2008, 08:16
they will make money from this. they have tested and spent money already. they will spin the news results in their favor. mark my words:D

JAK
03-25-2008, 08:29
I don't see why they would have to spin anything.
Either the guy is fit and light enough to do it, or he isn't.

It's not about the food and gear weight. It's about not having excess body weight.
Perhaps that's the spin.

saimyoji
03-25-2008, 08:30
So, he won't stop for food, but he will stop for water? Why, because its free along the trail? So will he accept those cheeseburgers if offered?:-?

aficion
03-25-2008, 08:31
Seems like enough food for 60 days to me. Guess without the opportunity to pig out during re-supply, maybe the extra will be needed.

JAK
03-25-2008, 08:31
So, he won't stop for food, but he will stop for water? Why, because its free along the trail? So will he accept those cheeseburgers if offered?:-?I think he would be far more interested in using up the food he is carrying.

JAK
03-25-2008, 08:44
Seems like enough food for 60 days to me. Guess without the opportunity to pig out during re-supply, maybe the extra will be needed.He might be fit enough to burn 3 pounds a day. Some folks are. I know I'm not. Perhaps by the end of such an endeavour I could be, but I could never attempt such a thing unless I was 70 pounds lighter to start with.

Here is a reality check for most of us:
http://www.nhlbisupport.com/bmi/

I am currently 6' 0.5" and 230 pounds. I can run 10km at this weight and have no trouble hiking with a 30 pound pack. Fact is, I am obese. Not just overweight. Obese. According to BMI I could by 140 pounds and still be of normal weight. That would allow me to carry 90 pounds and be just as light on my feet as I am getting out of the shower. Something to consider. Perhaps a better measure for most men is waist line or stomach measurement. Again, I don't measure up all that well. I was 32" 25 years ago and 45" today, measured at my naval. That can't be good.

I don't think we should be making fun of this guy.

jhick
03-25-2008, 08:54
I tried that link.... it said I had a BMI of 24.4.

Normal weight = 18.5-24.9
Overweight = 25-29.9There is no way I am close to being overweight! I'm 6'2" and have a 32" waist! I wouldn't put to much credence in this test.

Outrider
03-25-2008, 09:00
Yeah I dont think that site is right either. I am 5'7 160 lbs and it says I am overweight at 25.1 BMI.

Tipi Walter
03-25-2008, 09:19
It sounds like he might be carrying an extra 32 pounds of food. On my last 15 day backpacking trip, I carried around 30 pounds of food, so I suppose 80 pounds would get me thru 40 days, about 2 lbs per day. Why is his food load 112 lbs?

If I had to do 40 days w/o resupply(and no food cache), I'd divide my food bags into two: cookables and snackables. In this case, my snackable food bag would be smaller than normal(since it's heavier with water content). By careful planning using cookables(dehydrated/freeze-dried), I could get my daily food needs down below 2 lbs.

All mere conjecture as it's not the weight that's the problem, it's finding 40 free days to stay out w/o coming back, i.e. family responsibilities, etc.

JAK
03-25-2008, 09:32
I tried that link.... it said I had a BMI of 24.4.

Normal weight = 18.5-24.9
Overweight = 25-29.9There is no way I am close to being overweight! I'm 6'2" and have a 32" waist! I wouldn't put to much credence in this test.I think the best test for men is one that involves waist line measurements, or calculates you percent body fat one way or another. It is a good test for me because I am not all that muscle bound, other than my legs. In general, it is quite accurate for most people. Muscle bound males are the only real exception. Most of us are overweight, and most of us know it. Most of us however, don't know how much we are overweight, and really don't want to know. I tell people I should only weigh 165#, that I could lose 65#, and they think I'm a fanatic. Well I've sailed competitively at 165# and I've run competitively at 165#, and I would love to be 165# again. Best way I know to get there is hiking, and proper eating of course.

Here is perhaps a more useful test for men, as it includes waist to height ratio as well as BMI.
http://home.fuse.net/clymer/bmi/

It also estimates percent body fat. A healthy waist line is below 50% of your height. That seems about right to me. I thing a healthy percent body fat for a long distance hiker is perhaps 12-15%. It also has something called the Willoughby athlete weight, which is one measure of what a healthy weight might be for a fairly muscle bound male. Some sports and lifestyles might benefit that much muscle. I am not sure if hiking is one of them, but hikers should do more than just hike. I thin the Willoughby athlete weight could be a very healthy weight if it was muscle and not fat, in other words a percent body fat of 12-15%. The Willoughby athlete waist is probably a very good measure of this.

So according to this, I should strive for a weight of 200# and a waist measurement of 33". Knowing myself, I would very likely get down to 165# before I got my waist down to 33". Because I am more of a runners build beneath all this extra. A little muscle building certainly wouldn't hurt.

Tabasco
03-25-2008, 09:33
Thanks for the laugh about the BMI. At 6' 3" it says I would be in the normal range if I weighed 150 lbs. That is hilarious.

weary
03-25-2008, 09:39
Seems like enough food for 60 days to me. Guess without the opportunity to pig out during re-supply, maybe the extra will be needed.
If you are not pigging out every two days in town, or are not carrying 40 extra pounds of fat, you can't survive very long on less that two ++ pounds of food a day.

JAK
03-25-2008, 09:41
Thanks for the laugh about the BMI. At 6' 3" it says I would be in the normal range if I weighed 150 lbs. That is hilarious.So what do you think is healthy for you? What is your current height to waist ratio? Have you measured your percent body fat?

JAK
03-25-2008, 09:43
If you are not pigging out every two days in town, or are not carrying 40 extra pounds of fat, you can't survive very long on less that two ++ pounds of food a day.I would agree with that assessment. The other exception would be someone older with a smaller frame. Such a person might hike 20 miles a day on less than 2 pounds per day while staying healthy and not losing weight. Not while carrying 112 pounds of food mind you. :D

The Solemates
03-25-2008, 09:49
i like the idea. i wish him the best :)

The Solemates
03-25-2008, 09:52
I think the best test for men is one that involves waist line measurements, or calculates you percent body fat one way or another. It is a good test for me because I am not all that muscle bound, other than my legs. In general, it is quite accurate for most people. Muscle bound males are the only real exception. Most of us are overweight, and most of us know it. Most of us however, don't know how much we are overweight, and really don't want to know. I tell people I should only weigh 165#, that I could lose 65#, and they think I'm a fanatic. Well I've sailed competitively at 165# and I've run competitively at 165#, and I would love to be 165# again. Best way I know to get there is hiking, and proper eating of course.

Here is perhaps a more useful test for men, as it includes waist to height ratio as well as BMI.
http://home.fuse.net/clymer/bmi/

It also estimates percent body fat. A healthy waist line is below 50% of your height. That seems about right to me. I thing a healthy percent body fat for a long distance hiker is perhaps 12-15%. It also has something called the Willoughby athlete weight, which is one measure of what a healthy weight might be for a fairly muscle bound male. Some sports and lifestyles might benefit that much muscle. I am not sure if hiking is one of them, but hikers should do more than just hike. I thin the Willoughby athlete weight could be a very healthy weight if it was muscle and not fat, in other words a percent body fat of 12-15%. The Willoughby athlete waist is probably a very good measure of this.

So according to this, I should strive for a weight of 200# and a waist measurement of 33". Knowing myself, I would very likely get down to 165# before I got my waist down to 33". Because I am more of a runners build beneath all this extra. A little muscle building certainly wouldn't hurt.

I wouldnt call myself "muscle bound"...whatever that means. I also would not call myself overweight, which at 6'4" 210 lbs, and a 36" waist, I often get comments from people thinking I am too skinny. These tests are bogus.

The Solemates
03-25-2008, 09:54
I think the best test for men is one that involves waist line measurements, or calculates you percent body fat one way or another. It is a good test for me because I am not all that muscle bound, other than my legs. In general, it is quite accurate for most people. Muscle bound males are the only real exception. Most of us are overweight, and most of us know it. Most of us however, don't know how much we are overweight, and really don't want to know. I tell people I should only weigh 165#, that I could lose 65#, and they think I'm a fanatic. Well I've sailed competitively at 165# and I've run competitively at 165#, and I would love to be 165# again. Best way I know to get there is hiking, and proper eating of course.

Here is perhaps a more useful test for men, as it includes waist to height ratio as well as BMI.
http://home.fuse.net/clymer/bmi/

It also estimates percent body fat. A healthy waist line is below 50% of your height. That seems about right to me. I thing a healthy percent body fat for a long distance hiker is perhaps 12-15%. It also has something called the Willoughby athlete weight, which is one measure of what a healthy weight might be for a fairly muscle bound male. Some sports and lifestyles might benefit that much muscle. I am not sure if hiking is one of them, but hikers should do more than just hike. I thin the Willoughby athlete weight could be a very healthy weight if it was muscle and not fat, in other words a percent body fat of 12-15%. The Willoughby athlete waist is probably a very good measure of this.

So according to this, I should strive for a weight of 200# and a waist measurement of 33". Knowing myself, I would very likely get down to 165# before I got my waist down to 33". Because I am more of a runners build beneath all this extra. A little muscle building certainly wouldn't hurt.


This link says my body fat index is 16.1%. I have had mine measured from experts and they say it is ~12%.

JAK
03-25-2008, 09:55
I think its a really cool idea also. I would like to hike my body weight down to be able to do longer distances without resupply. I suppose I would only need to carry 2 pounds of food each day, high in carbs, until I get there. A fortnight wouldn't be too bad as that would only be 28# food + 2 # water + 15# base in summer = 45# skin out.

jhick
03-25-2008, 09:59
The new link gives me the same result... 24.4 BMI.

It may be correct for some people, but trust me... if you seen me you'd know I'm no where near being overweight.

According to the chart, with 43.2 waist-to-height ratio, I am between a male college swimmer and the Willoughby Ideal. But with a 24.4 BMI, I am only .6 points from being overweight!?!?!? How does that figure?

JAK
03-25-2008, 10:03
I wouldnt call myself "muscle bound"...whatever that means. I also would not call myself overweight, which at 6'4" 210 lbs, and a 36" waist, I often get comments from people thinking I am too skinny. These tests are bogus.Well they might not be perfect, but they are a better indicator of fitness than depending on the average North Americans assessment.

I think this set of tools is very useful. Again, I agree that most men should go by waist line rather than BMI. As for percent body fat, that is more difficult to measure. Personally, I think it grossly underestimates my percent body fat at 30%, but people that are more muscle bound, especially in the stomach and chest, might get overestimated. I think if you got it done professionally, then used changes in your waist line measurement to estimate changes in percant body fat, that would be a good way to use such a tool to make your own estimate.

http://home.fuse.net/clymer/bmi/#bodyfat

jhick
03-25-2008, 10:05
Well they might not be perfect, but they are a better indicator of fitness than depending on the average North Americans assessment.

I totally agree.

ChinMusic
03-25-2008, 10:11
BMI is a joke for males. You can have 13% body fat and be obese on the stupid thing. Your waist size is a MUCH better indicator.

Nearly Normal
03-25-2008, 10:12
Seeing how he designs Golite packs, I'm interested to see if the design changes.
Is anyone confirming he's using an off the shelf pack?

The part about using a stick was funny.

I pity the poor hikers with regular hiker funk having to visit with this cat.

After about day 15 his trail name will be Skunkape.

Mags
03-25-2008, 10:18
Yeah I dont think that site is right either. I am 5'7 160 lbs and it says I am overweight at 25.1 BMI.

BMI does not take into muscle mass (heavier than fat). If you are physically active, you have some muscle mass that weighs more than fat and throws off the BMI numbers.

Coup is a big guy. Not thin and lean at all..but more like a pack mule. Which is probably good for hauling a lot of weight.

mudhead
03-25-2008, 10:20
BMI is a joke for males. You can have 13% body fat and be obese on the stupid thing. Your waist size is a MUCH better indicator.

Agree to a point. Some exercises can increase your waist size, if you are scrawny. Probably not at 13%.

Thumb and finger, pinch around. If you have some chub, you will find it!

JAK
03-25-2008, 13:53
The new link gives me the same result... 24.4 BMI.

It may be correct for some people, but trust me... if you seen me you'd know I'm no where near being overweight.

According to the chart, with 43.2 waist-to-height ratio, I am between a male college swimmer and the Willoughby Ideal. But with a 24.4 BMI, I am only .6 points from being overweight!?!?!? How does that figure?BMI is probably not a good indicator for athletic men. If you have built up some muscle mass, and are using it, and your percent body fat is less than 15%, then I wouldn't worry too much about BMI. If you are like most middle aged men however, and whatever muscle mass you built up when you were younger isn't getting used as much, then if you have a higher BMI don't kid yourself into thinking that you have more muscle than you did in college. Most atheletes would be wise to lean down some and focus more on endurance once they are beyond 30. Most gain weight however, and it ain't pretty.

JAK
03-25-2008, 14:21
BMI does not take into muscle mass (heavier than fat). If you are physically active, you have some muscle mass that weighs more than fat and throws off the BMI numbers.

Coup is a big guy. Not thin and lean at all..but more like a pack mule. Which is probably good for hauling a lot of weight.Could be, but the voyageurs were typical short and stocky, but not all that heavy. Leaner athletes, like runners, should be able to carry more weight than heavier athletes like weight lifters. I wouldn't say a typical marathon runner would be ideal, but a typical triathlete or cross-country skier would seem to be close to ideal. How much does Coup weigh?

JAK
03-25-2008, 14:30
I saw some thread that indicated he typicall starts hikes at 193# and finishes at 169#.
If he is wise he will start this one closer to 169# and eat more food.
Sounds like he's in shape though. How tall is he?

Mags
03-25-2008, 14:50
[quote=JAK;575633]Could be, but the voyageurs were typical short and stocky, but not all that heavy. [quote]

That's my build.

(and, oddly enough, there is some Canuck on my mother's side. Perhaps some coeur de bois thrown into the mix with my penchant for mountains :) I know little of that branch of my family though, and tend to identify with the other dark haired, short and olive skinned people in my gene pool. ;) ).

I would say a road runner (or bicyclist) would not be the ideal "backpacker" build for carrying loads. A cross-country skiier might work with its emphasis on all over conditioning. Better yet a trail runner. Better still? An experienced backpacker.

When I go running with my friends, I can't keep up. When I take the same friends hiking/backpacking..they can't keep up. Different muscles for different activities. At the end of the day, I am ready to repeat the same activity. My friends? No so much. OTOH, if I tried to run a 3:30 marathon, I'd be dead. :O

I met Coup a few times (on the CT, at slideshows). I am a poor judge of height, but he looks about 5'10" +/- He is not big like a weight lifter, but more of a taller, a little heavier version of the Voyageurs/runner of the woods.

Here's a pic from a recent article:

http://images.inc.com/magazine/20070301/playinghard1.jpg

Don't forget, he hiked the Colorado Trail this way in 20 days. That's about 25 MPD. Not too shabby.

envirodiver
03-25-2008, 14:51
Why not do this? I don't want to, but if he wants to do it and publicize it...why not? He's in the business of selling the outdoors as much as gear. If it brings attention to the outdoors, to him and through him to Go-Lite...it works. What's he got to lose?

If his pack fails...he says "it was overloaded by 90 lbs., see what happens when you do that. But, the Go-Lite pack is made well, it lasted for x#days and x miles grossly overloaded." It's win win.

If he fails, then people will forget about it quickly.

ki0eh
03-25-2008, 15:15
Except I still remember Geraldo Rivera opening Al Capone's vault...

Tin Man
03-25-2008, 15:22
Don't forget, he hiked the Colorado Trail this way in 20 days. That's about 25 MPD. Not too shabby.

Do you know his pack weight for the CT?

envirodiver
03-25-2008, 16:04
Except I still remember Geraldo Rivera opening Al Capone's vault...

Little bigger build up on that one though.

Mags
03-25-2008, 16:07
Do you know his pack weight for the CT?

I do not know. It looked pretty frickin' big on his first day, though.

TouchofGrey
03-25-2008, 16:31
hmm.. what does


3 different kinds of lubrication with different mechanics of delivery because different parts of the body respond better to each and it takes a stick to reach the most important place.

this mean.

As for BMI, I have to echo what other people have said, that it is not very good for someone with a muscular build.

hobbit
03-25-2008, 17:16
40 days and 40 nights w/no resupply... by carrying an intensely heavy pack

I think I'd be more interested in seeing someone do it with a normal weight pack and resupplying by ways of nature grazing
in more ways than one it would be more difficult than just carrying a really heavy pack
imho that tests how good of a pack mule you'd make

weary
03-25-2008, 20:33
40 days and 40 nights w/no resupply... by carrying an intensely heavy pack

I think I'd be more interested in seeing someone do it with a normal weight pack and resupplying by ways of nature grazing
in more ways than one it would be more difficult than just carrying a really heavy pack
imho that tests how good of a pack mule you'd make
It surely would be interesting. But such a thing is impossible in the six months expected for a through hike. Of course it possibly even this late could be done. But only by someone able to spend a decade or two on the trail -- gradually harvesting and preserving natural trail foods. Think 100 -- maybe 200, or more -- miles a year for a northbound walk.

Weary

hiker51
03-25-2008, 20:49
I passed him on Saturday as he was pushing along and he seemed perfectly happy and was having a good time. If he quits tomorrow he will have carried alot more weight than I ever have alot further than I could. If it is something he wants to do, even if it is for publicity for his company, why criticize him...Most people have done things that make sense to themselves and no one else.
He was great fun to talk to and was fun to talk about to other hikers over the weekend. In fact, I talked to a young woman who was starting her thru hike with a golite pack and told her about the guy and she said, "Where is he - I want to yell at him!" She was having some pack issues...

ki0eh
03-25-2008, 20:49
Think 100 -- maybe 200, or more -- miles a year for a northbound walk.


Wow, someone would barely beat global warming at that pace! :rolleyes:

Bearpaw
03-25-2008, 22:45
Do you know his pack weight for the CT?

If memory serves, he was in the high 50's, maybe 60 pounds for that one. At least I vaguely remember reading that on the internet, so it has to be true, right? ;)

But seriously, I believe it was in the ballpark of 60 pounds.

hobbit
03-26-2008, 08:00
It surely would be interesting. But such a thing is impossible in the six months expected for a through hike. Of course it possibly even this late could be done. But only by someone able to spend a decade or two on the trail -- gradually harvesting and preserving natural trail foods. Think 100 -- maybe 200, or more -- miles a year for a northbound walk.

Weary


I'm not saying hike the whole trail by ways of nature grazing I'm saying 40 days and 40 nights on the AT by ways of eating what you can procure from the woods

It would take forever to hike the whole thing doing this of course but I would argue against it taking a year to do 100 miles...

Also in my first post I said that you would have the addition of a normal sized pack to do it with so not all your meals would have to come from nature just most :banana

JAK
03-26-2008, 08:39
Interesting spin of the thread. From what I have read and surmised, it is very difficult to travel while hunting and gathering all your food. There must have been exceptions depending on the time of year and the flora and fauna, but in most cases throughout history all around the planet people generally supplemented their diet with food hunted and/or gathered along the way, but carried most of their calories with them. I try and learn as much as I can, but I've more or less resigned myself to the fact that it would be very difficult to get much more than 100 calories per day from gathering while travelling, unless you hit a berry patch or something like that. Hunting squirrels and such can be a good source of protien, but not so much in the way of fat, and pretty much zero carbs. I have thought about seeing if I can catch a seagull along the fundy footpath using a hook and ball of fat. I haven't been successful at snaring rabbits or shooting squirrels yet. I am a late comer to this game. Makes me feel like a kid again. In moderation, I think its a good way to get to know more about your environment, as long as you do it right.

Seriously though, if someone was able to attempt the AT by hunting and gathering, I would imagine the person with the best chance of success, physiologically speaking, would be a young teenager, 10-14 years old maybe, male or female, very slight build, fairly good shape. Obviously they would have to have learned some skills, and they would have to be pretty tough. I think if you looked to other countries and cultures you might still find kids like this. Too many seem to have guns or machetes in their hands. Anyhow, whatever adventures young appalachian indian braves and frontiersmen had all those years ago, whether driven by adventure or misfortune, however far they might have travelled, how they travelled, how much food they were able to gather along the way; most of these adventures would never have been recorded. I am sure they didn't always end well. We can imagine. I suppose their true memories are safe, having never been recorded.

Dances with Mice
03-26-2008, 08:52
Hiking the AT by hunting and gathering?

Yeah, right. Does the name Chris McCandless mean anything to you?

woodsy
03-26-2008, 09:13
Hiking the AT by hunting and gathering?

Les Stroud (Survivorman) might make it 1 week, might not.

JAK
03-26-2008, 09:39
I think its more a question of how many miles someone might get. Let's assume they are able to gather just 100 calories of carbohydrates each day, not lets say 100g or 400 calories. That would be just enough to keep the brain functioning, assuming you used no carbohydrates for anything else. So your body would have to travel on burning fat, and also converting protien to carbs to make up for any carbs that do get burnt along the way, climbing up hills etc. Now protien is probably just as easy to gather as carbohydrates, but even if the 400 calories was a combination of both, your body would still end up wasting away slowly. Travel would be slow obviously, and very painful, and you would be more vulnerable to falling or losing your way or hypothermia or making some fatal mistake. Presuming you didn't meet some such fate, you would eventually run out of fat and protien. If you were 30% body fat to begin with, and lost that plus say half your muscle and other vital tissues, you might lose half your body weight and still be walking. Some of that lost weight would be water. For a 150 pound person, ending up as a 75 pound person, they might get 250,000 kcal from their body. Hiking an average of 10 miles per day, they might possibly last 100 days, and cover 1000 miles. We can look to examples of such feats in recent history. They ain't pretty. They certainly ain't healthy.

The Solemates
03-26-2008, 15:27
JAK, you've peppered the forums in the last week with literally hundreds of posts. Quit your job or something? :)

smokymtnsteve
03-26-2008, 15:43
Hiking the AT by hunting and gathering?

Yeah, right. Does the name Chris McCandless mean anything to you?


yea ...I used to live in that nieghborhood whar he died..

Lone Wolf
03-26-2008, 15:43
wow. you're cool

fiddlehead
03-26-2008, 21:17
Hiking the AT by hunting and gathering?



You would be crucified by the do-gooders on here for THAT one my friend!

woodsy
03-28-2008, 07:49
Update: Several threads with different titles on this story, lets just say the guy(Coup) gave it a gallant try, the unsupported 40 days thing, nothing wrong with trying something different.
from another thread:

News:

Coup is here in Neel Gap (actually got in last night). He's doing great, but for any number of reasons, he's decided to skip the 40-day thing; instead, since he gets out here so seldom, (he's based in Boulder), he's decided to explore the area at his leisure and have some fun, which I think is very wise indeed. He particularly is interested in checking out the Smokies.

For those who care about such things, his pack was indeed straight off the rack and was not altered or re-inforced in any way I could see. When I tried the thing on (the only other person who has, by the way), it weighed at least 125 pounds; I walked around 80 yards and up a flight of stairs and was very happy to be rid of the thing. That he got here from Springer in that beast is pretty impressive. Sorta nuts, but impressive.


In any case, very nice guy, very down to earth, has a great laugh, and is a good storyteller. If nothing else, I've come away from this with a new opinion of Go-Lite. I'm still not sure what the pack would've looked like if he had continued for 40 days, but he got here with it, which quite frankly, I wasn't sure could be done.

Touche, Coup.

P.S According to Winton Porter, Coup now owns the record for most unwanted stuff sent home from Neel Gap (121 pounds!), and I don't think tis is a record that anyone's gona bust anytime soon! :D

skinny minnie
03-28-2008, 08:15
Ummm... that pack weighs more than I do. Not my idea of even a remotely good time.

If you want to do something without resupply, go hike somewhere where you can cache food drops. I just don't see the point.

Lone Wolf
03-28-2008, 08:20
a stunt that failed early and horribly :)

woodsy
03-28-2008, 08:23
He got about 29 miles further than I would have carrying that kind of weight.

JAK
03-28-2008, 08:42
Ummm... that pack weighs more than I do. Not my idea of even a remotely good time.

If you want to do something without resupply, go hike somewhere where you can cache food drops. I just don't see the point.You could easily scale it down to your body weight. My guess is you could probably stand a better chance of hiking 40 days and 40 nights without resupply that the rest of us. If I was to do it I would go slow at first, so I would want to start where the camping is really good, and the hills aren't too steep, and finish where the hiking is really good and more challenging. I see your point though. If its just a matter of hitting yourself with a hammer 40 times the first day and one less each day for 40 days, yeah that's rather silly. It would be nice to get totally away for 40 days and 40 nights though. Could be a real life changer. I read a book once with a couple of stories along those lines. ;)

JAK
03-28-2008, 08:44
a stunt that failed early and horribly :)Those are often the best.
That's what I tell my engineering students. Fail early and fail often. :)

skinny minnie
03-28-2008, 08:53
You could easily scale it down to your body weight.

No, thank you!


If I want to pretend to be an intrepid explorer from the days of yore conquering the wilderness, I'll head over to the Yukon or something. And get eaten by a grizzly. And I STILL won't be carrying that much crap!

Tin Man
03-28-2008, 09:00
No, thank you!


If I want to pretend to be an intrepid explorer from the days of yore conquering the wilderness, I'll head over to the Yukon or something. And get eaten by a grizzly. And I STILL won't be carrying that much crap!

Bring a big gun and eat the grizzly, you will save on pack weight. At least that is what "intrepid explorers" did. It's simply a matter of conquering vs. being conquered.

DavidNH
03-28-2008, 10:30
Well.. I clicked on the link and looked it over..

I have to agree here with both Lone Wolf and Jack and possibly others.

I can't see him reaching Damascus with a 100+ pound load. 8 pounds of chocoloate, huh? some of it will melt before it gets eaten. will the pack even hold up?

But even if the guy could pull off this stunt...so what? is thru hiking just a macho contest? I honestly can't see how this guy is going to have any fund. I can't see it. Perhaps some one could explain it to me.

DavidNH

max patch
03-28-2008, 10:34
David, he stopped at Neels Gap.

I give him credit for making it that far.

JAK
03-28-2008, 10:47
No, thank you!


If I want to pretend to be an intrepid explorer from the days of yore conquering the wilderness, I'll head over to the Yukon or something. And get eaten by a grizzly. And I STILL won't be carrying that much crap!You've got waaaay too much common sense. What are you, a woman? :banana

Lone Wolf
03-28-2008, 10:49
David, he stopped at Neels Gap.

I give him credit for making it that far.

kinda like giving credit to someone who's never run a marathon then announce to the world they're gonna run one, then quit after a half mile :) not a valiant effort

Jack Tarlin
03-28-2008, 10:55
Um, I actually tried the damned pack on......with several days worth of weight already gone from it.

And it still weighed around 125 pounds.

Anyone who wants to belittle Coup's effort is welcome to walk from Springer to Neel Gap with a 135 pound pack, and then they can tell us how easy this would be.

Any takers? :D

JAK
03-28-2008, 10:56
I would have liked to see him hike farther also. In the very least he could have chowed down for a couple of days before continuing. No purging allowed though, unless its from hiking. You never know though. He might of just found something better to do. His only real failing was in managing our expectations.

I might try something equally crazy this summer, then quit after half a mile. :)

JAK
03-28-2008, 10:59
Um, I actually tried the damned pack on......with several days worth of weight already gone from it.

And it still weighed around 125 pounds.

Anyone who wants to belittle Coup's effort is welcome to walk from Springer to Neel Gap with a 135 pound pack, and then they can tell us how easy this would be.

Any takers? :DAt least I would have the sense to do the last 30 miles of the 620 instead of the first 30. :D

superman
03-28-2008, 11:02
It may be a good effort but setting your self up to fail, in spite of all wisdom, isn't so bright. I'd like to say that I've never done that but I have. You just hope that if your going to lose it will be worth it. Fortunately he can still adapt and over come on a realistic hike.

JAK
03-28-2008, 11:11
I still think it was doable. He did the hardest part.

Ironically, one of the features of such an attempt is that it gets easier as you go, but for the sort of person that would devise and attempt such a feat that would make it less interesting as it got less challenging. I think the answer would be to keep picking the speed and distance up as you go to make it equally challenging but ever changing throughout.

We know its doable. The record is supposed to be 620 miles, but I'll bet longer distances have been covered in the past with comparable starting loads, perhaps not without some hunting and gathering along the way.

On the 620 mile record. What terrain? What starting weight? What body frame/weight?

weary
03-28-2008, 13:14
I still think it was doable. He did the hardest part.

Ironically, one of the features of such an attempt is that it gets easier as you go, but for the sort of person that would devise and attempt such a feat that would make it less interesting as it got less challenging. I think the answer would be to keep picking the speed and distance up as you go to make it equally challenging but ever changing throughout.

We know its doable. The record is supposed to be 620 miles, but I'll bet longer distances have been covered in the past with comparable starting loads, perhaps not without some hunting and gathering along the way.

On the 620 mile record. What terrain? What starting weight? What body frame/weight?
It's my guess that a strong hiker could possibly beat that on the AT in three weeks, starting with a 50 pound pack -- 40 pounds of food, 10 pounds of gear.

Weary

grizzlyadam
03-28-2008, 13:34
i've been there....kind of....

i started from springer in october of 2000 with a pack that weighed in at right around one hundred pounds. i was young and dumb and didn't know any better. i started with enough food to get to fontana dam because i didn't know about resupplying in towns. and, my mindset was- "it's october and i'm heading north"- so i had anything and everything i could think of.

i reached woody gap on the third day and threw away 20 pounds of food. and, at neels gap i shipped home almost 40 pounds of "gear".

i was practically running down the trail after that....

live and learn.

DavidNH
03-28-2008, 13:38
There is no way i would have gotten to Neels GAP with 125 pounds on my back. Even getting up to top of Springer would be a challenge.

Still, as far as Kneels Gap was not his goal. If he was only going that far..he could have gotten by with 30 pounds or less especially as a go lite rep.

David

Lone Wolf
03-28-2008, 13:40
It's Neel Gap no K no S :)

Phreak
03-28-2008, 13:45
It's Neel Gap no K no S :)

LW, I thought it was Neels Gap (?) :confused:

Lone Wolf
03-28-2008, 13:47
LW, I thought it was Neels Gap (?) :confused:

when i was there 2 weeks ago i saw the plaque. it said NEEL GAP. no S

JAK
03-28-2008, 14:27
It's my guess that a strong hiker could possibly beat that on the AT in three weeks, starting with a 50 pound pack -- 40 pounds of food, 10 pounds of gear.

WearyI would agree with that. The 40 days and 40 nights constraint makes it more interesting though, I think. In theory you could just sit and eat for the first 20 days, and then carry on. The combination of 'unsupported', 'no-resupply', AND '40 days and 40 nights' makes it more interesting I think, and somewhat of a leveler for lean muscle versus burly muscle. I think it would definitely pay off to start off without excess body fat, but it would also be a fun thing to do if you wanted to loose body fat. I think I would want to be at least lean enough to be hike at least 4 hours from day one, but after that I wouldn't be too concerned about how far I got as long as I gave it a good effort each day for 40 days and 40 nights. I think a little foraging would be cool to. I don't think it would add alot of calories but I think it could add some interest, or at least some flavour if nothing else.

The terrain definitely would have an impact on how do-able this is. Its got me wondering if Mount Carleton to Mount Katahdin with no re-supply might be possible, and if 40 days and 40 nights might be a good time frame for such an attempt. Interestingly, its exactly 620 miles from Mt Katahdin to the end of the Maritimes portion of the IAT in Gaspe, so in theory that whole thing could be doable unsupplied by some folks. I'm guessing Mount Carleton to Mount Katahdin is about 240 miles, so 6 miles per day. That would be a good pace for someone taking the too fat to go too fast but looking to loose some weight and spend lots of zero days in the woods approach.

If I did go that slow, I wonder how much fat I could safely burn each day. Could I lose a pound a day for 40 days? Perhaps not, but I think it might be safe to limit food calories to perhaps 1.5 pound per day or less. If I started off at 220# plus 80# skin out and ended at 160# to 170# plus 20# skin out that could be quite a trip. I could spend some extra time on both ends to make up the 40 days and 40 nights. Both very nice parks.

http://www.internationalat.org/Pages/index

tlbj6142
03-28-2008, 15:11
On the 620 mile record. What terrain? What starting weight? What body frame/weight?Here's is what Coup was talking about when he mentions a "record"...

http://www.ryanjordan.com/2006_arctic/

3 people hiked ~1000km in nowhere Alaska without resupply in order to reach the "most remote" place in the US. Ryan busted his ankle a few days into the trip and had to be flown out. The other 2 finished.

tlbj6142
03-28-2008, 15:25
http://www.ryanjordan.com/2006_arctic/There are a few differences between what Coup was doing and what the "Artic1000" group did.

There were 3 of them (though Ryan left after a few days). So, they could share some gear (shelters, quilts, stove, bear spray, etc.)
Their packs only weighed 55-60# at the beginning of the hike
They were limited by "days" not miles. They were only planning to be out ~24 days. In that time they did the 620 miles.
Most, if not all, of the trip was off-trail.
Other than Lone Wolf, there aren't a whole lot of things on the AT that can eat you.:D

JAK
03-28-2008, 15:33
Thanks for the link.


There are a few differences between what Coup was doing and what the "Artic1000" group did.

There were 3 of them (though Ryan left after a few days). So, they could share some gear (shelters, quilts, stove, bear spray, etc.)
Their packs only weighed 55-60# at the beginning of the hike
They were limited by "days" not miles. They were only planning to be out ~24 days. In that time they did the 620 miles.
Most, if not all, of the trip was off-trail.
Other than Lone Wolf, there aren't a whole lot of things on the AT that can eat you.:DGood points, but...

With ultralight gear there is not a lot to be gained by gear sharing, except in winter maybe.
They were also leaner to begin with, body fat wise.
In theory, they could have started with more food and sat in place for the first 16 days.
The off-trail is an important factor on time/energy, but so is stuff like net elevation gain. Snow is another biggy if you chance into that.
I'm seriously considering taking my chances in Alaska or the Labrador vs the BBLW.

Crustacean
03-28-2008, 16:08
The 620 miles doesn't seem that impressive. Lower the pack weight and make miles. Go without a stove and fuel. Make a fire if needed to cook up some meals with lots of calories. Energy drink packets might help. Just fly and I could see 1000 miles being accomplished by somebody.

max patch
03-28-2008, 16:11
LW, I thought it was Neels Gap (?) :confused:

Hmmmm......

http://www.waymarking.com/gallery/image.aspx?f=1&guid=d5f47679-f9d9-4e8f-bb45-a1af87a929dc

Phreak
03-28-2008, 16:23
Hmmmm......

http://www.waymarking.com/gallery/image.aspx?f=1&guid=d5f47679-f9d9-4e8f-bb45-a1af87a929dc

I'm not arguing it's not Neel Gap, just going by all of my books and guides for the AT spelling it Neels Gap. Interesting. :)

Thanks for the link.

JAK
03-28-2008, 16:31
I've seen Neel's Gap also, but Neel Gap on official maps and weather pages and such.

Up here we often have place names with different spelling.
Saint John the city is on the St. John River.

Royal Kennebeccasis Yacht Club is on the Kennebecasis River. Two c's vs one.
Queen Victoria couldn't spell, and no one saw fit to correct her.

Appalachian Tater
03-29-2008, 18:24
Queen Victoria couldn't spell, and no one saw fit to correct her.And when she farted people always thought it was her horse.

SunnyWalker
04-02-2008, 23:48
I looked at the article and the photo of his pack. Does not show the front, does he have a red face? but seriously, the bags hanging on the back would bother me swinging around and all.

However, I like the idea. When I hike I try to go 6-10 days between re-loads. As a consequence I use a lot of dehydrated food. Anyway, for me it seems to make the experience much more enjoyable. I AM trying to "get away from it all". I think he will have a lot of struggles, fun, memories, and something to write home about. His perspective will sure be different than all of us, right!?? If it was me and I was wanting to do something like this I would do what one wrote about before, place caches ahead of me. Thats what Colin did in the Grand Canyon. Have fun one and all, and hike your own hike. (and let others do the same).

paradoxb3
04-03-2008, 00:56
Deserves respect? I think i'm with Lone Wolf on this one. Why does he deserve respect? He did the exact same moronic thing tons of hikers have done in the past -- way too much weight, and quit at Neels. If he were any other average joe hiker, you would all be laughing at him.

warraghiyagey
04-03-2008, 00:59
Deserves respect? I think i'm with Lone Wolf on this one. Why does he deserve respect? He did the exact same moronic thing tons of hikers have done in the past -- way too much weight, and quit at Neels. If he were any other average joe hiker, you would all be laughing at him.

Exactly. Another pathetic attempt at trail attention. Yikes

Lone Wolf
04-03-2008, 01:26
I think he will have a lot of struggles, fun, memories, and something to write home about. His perspective will sure be different than all of us, right!??

he quit after 30 miles at Neel gap. nothing to write home about

88BlueGT
04-03-2008, 16:54
he quite already ??????????

SunnyWalker
04-03-2008, 19:41
Oh, already he quit??!?!?!? Funny, we are all saying "already" like none of us expected him to make it.