View Full Version : Kennebec Ferry
Is it a going deal for 2008?
Jack Tarlin
03-26-2008, 17:45
No one's been hired for certain yet, but I'm quite sure this will be taken care of by hiker season in Maine.
See this post (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=575525#post575525) for more information.
I emailed the ATC the other day for confirmation and I am a little disappointed that they have not responded. Perhaps I will try phoning tomorrow.
I emailed the ATC the other day for confirmation and I am a little disappointed that they have not responded. Perhaps I will try phoning tomorrow.
I have confirmation from the ATC that the post in the other thread is indeed correct and there will be a ferry this season. Apparently, Laurie couldn't respond sooner because she was out hiking. :cool:
I have confirmation from the ATC that the post in the other thread is indeed correct and there will be a ferry this season. Apparently, Laurie couldn't respond soon because she was out hiking. :cool:
That's the trouble with these damn White Blazers. You can never count on 'em. They're always out in the woods or wandering around on trails in the hills. Even BJ is out hanging around Neel Gap, when someone might need him for advice.
We need a web site without all these hiking distractiions. How are we going to solve all these problems without everyone's attention. Next we'll hear about people helping their families. White Blaze purity is critical. When we want to know about the Kennebec River ferry, we want it NOW!.
Weary
Jack Tarlin
03-28-2008, 18:51
Actually, Weary, I'm in western North Carolina at present, and expect to be for awhile.
You are woefully ill-informed.........as always. :D
That's the trouble with these damn White Blazers. You can never count on 'em. They're always out in the woods or wandering around on trails in the hills. Even BJ is out hanging around Neel Gap, when someone might need him for advice.
We need a web site without all these hiking distractiions. How are we going to solve all these problems without everyone's attention. Next we'll hear about people helping their families. White Blaze purity is critical. When we want to know about the Kennebec River ferry, we want it NOW!.
Weary
Well, if the ATC would just get with the program, they would simply install a wireless connection in the Starbucks corner of every shelter. You know, so every hiker could help their families from the trail. :)
Alternatively, the ATC might want to keep their website up to date. Just a thought.
Lone Wolf
03-28-2008, 19:42
Actually, Weary, I'm in western North Carolina at present, and expect to be for awhile.
You are woefully ill-informed.........as always. :D
give the guy a break. he ASSUMED you were hiking. he didn't know you yellow-blazed from Neel gap to Franklin. :)
Jack Tarlin
03-29-2008, 08:18
Please note the smile, Wolf. It was a joke.
You know what that is, right? :D
And tomorrow, I intend to yellow blaze BACK to where I left off, in case anyone cares.......which I doubt.
Lone Wolf
03-29-2008, 08:23
Please note the smile, Wolf. It was a joke.
You know what that is, right? :D
And tomorrow, I intend to yellow blaze BACK to where I left off, in case anyone cares.......which I doubt.
please note my :), jack. i got it
sure you'll yellow back to neel gap. :rolleyes::D
have fun at the bash. we ain't attending. we'll be thinkin' of y'all while we're in asheville kickin' hippiesniffers.
Jack Tarlin
03-29-2008, 08:25
People were wondering whether they'd be seeing you guys, but it is, after all, a bit of a haul.
See you in around 40 Days in Damascus!
Lone Wolf
03-29-2008, 08:28
People were wondering whether they'd be seeing you guys, but it is, after all, a bit of a haul.
See you in around 40 Days in Damascus!
it's 2 extra hours of driving just to sit around in the rain with a bunch of hikers. :) wonder and yuma should be there soon
warraghiyagey
03-29-2008, 14:01
And tomorrow, I intend to yellow blaze BACK to where I left off, in case anyone cares.......which I doubt.
I care.:sun
As for the Kennebec, Wolf's made me a believer. I'm fordin' it this year.:sun
katagious
03-29-2008, 15:12
I care.:sun
As for the Kennebec, Wolf's made me a believer. I'm fordin' it this year.:sun
Heh, you may want to take a "wait and see" approach. Definately, wait til the ice comes out of the mountains, eh?
warraghiyagey
03-29-2008, 15:32
Heh, you may want to take a "wait and see" approach. Definately, wait til the ice comes out of the mountains, eh?
Been across it twice. I'll be there in the early morning per Wolf's advice. Ifit's safe, I'm fording.:sun:sun
I care.:sun
As for the Kennebec, Wolf's made me a believer. I'm fordin' it this year.:sun
If you find yourself in trouble mid river, just cry "WOLF!" http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/laughing013.gif
Seriously though, June is more of a swimming month.
Let me know how you made out when you get to P Pond http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/laughing013.gif
warraghiyagey
03-29-2008, 15:43
If you find yourself in trouble mid river, just cry "WOLF!" http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/laughing013.gif
Seriously though, June is more of a swimming month.
Let me know how you made out when you get to P Pond http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/laughing013.gif
http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/laughing021.gifhttp://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/laughing021.gifhttp://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/laughing021.gifhttp://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/laughing021.gifhttp://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/laughing021.gifhttp://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/laughing021.gif
Woodsy, you're the king.
Wise Old Owl
03-29-2008, 18:17
That's the trouble with these damn White Blazers. You can never count on 'em. They're always out in the woods or wandering around on trails in the hills. Even BJ is out hanging around Neel Gap, when someone might need him for advice.
We need a web site without all these hiking distractiions. How are we going to solve all these problems without everyone's attention. Next we'll hear about people helping their families. White Blaze purity is critical. When we want to know about the Kennebec River ferry, we want it NOW!.
Weary
Wow that makes us Blue Blazers look really good!!!! Whoo Whoo!
warraghiyagey
03-29-2008, 18:26
Wow that makes us Blue Blazers look really good!!!! Whoo Whoo!
Blaze schmaze. Love walking the trail. You rock Owl!!!!:sun
warren doyle
04-01-2008, 11:32
"Fording at Dawn" - a new AT single to be 'released' this year.
jersey joe
04-01-2008, 11:51
A rope stretching across the Kennebec sure would help with fording.
Lone Wolf
04-01-2008, 11:53
don't need no rope if you ford early in the morning
don't need no rope if you ford early in the morning
Obviously it's possible for some people to ford the Kennebec. Hundreds have done so. But that doesn't mean that fording is wise for everyone, Or even most. People with a good sense of balance and strong bodies. And know where the best crossing is located can ford the river.
But an awful lot of people can't do so. Before the ferry service was inaugurated, the guide books posted phone numbers of people you could call for a ferry.
Early morning is safer than mid afternoon -- most days. But there is no rule that the dam upstream never opens in early morning. All it takes for an early opening is a muggy night in Boston. Or the breakdown of a power plant anywhere in New England.
Weary
ferryman
04-01-2008, 13:23
Today is the right day to honor all the fools who promote fording the Kennebec River! What with the snow pack up here in Maine right now, the two dams above the AT Kennebec Crossing will be running 24 X 7 right thru July. Sorry folks, but this thread continues to get my irish up even into retirement. Please let me distinguish between a Foboz and a half arse Foboz. A foboz creates havoc where none exists whereas a half arse foboz makes it half way across the river only to lose touch with planet earth and then expects the ferry service personnel to pull him out of the frying pan. That must be why liability insurance is over the top when experienced hikers or outdoorspeople continue to instruct others toward out of bound behaviors. The arguement to ford early mornings may just hold a ton of water for you. Play the odds and take the ferry. The life you save may be your own. Here we go again, Steve
ferryman
04-01-2008, 16:45
My apologies if anyone was offended by the previous thread posted by me, the former ferry service provider. I cannot for the life of me understand why so much controversy surrounds the Kennebec River crossing. We did our best to keep the ferry service as close to nature as was humanly possible, lived our lives around the schedule and then some for twenty years catering to every hiker's need the best we could have done. We were and remain freedom loving outdoor folks who just happened to be on the liability end of the stick. I have never met a hiker who wasn't having the adventure of a lifetime and with the advent of websites, there were hundreds even thousands of family members,friends and enthusiasts that were living every virtual step of that hiking experience. Over the years, there have plenty and I mean plenty of close calls at the river, but in the end it comes down to freedom of choice. Hikers make choices every second of their hike through experience, education and friendly advice. What works well for some folks might not work at all for others. The new ferry operator's name is David Corrigan and I know he will do a great job, but there will be challenges everyday during the 160 plus straight days he oversees the river crossing. Please take a moment and put yourself in his "responsibility ridden" shoes when you trek on down to the river to exersize your freedom of choice. Thank you. Steve
Appalachian Tater
04-01-2008, 16:47
My apologies if anyone was offended by the previous thread posted by me, the former ferry service provider. I cannot for the life of me understand why so much controversy surrounds the Kennebec River crossing. We did our best to keep the ferry service as close to nature as was humanly possible, lived our lives around the schedule and then some for twenty years catering to every hiker's need the best we could have done. We were and remain freedom loving outdoor folks who just happened to be on the liability end of the stick. I have never met a hiker who wasn't having the adventure of a lifetime and with the advent of websites, there were hundreds even thousands of family members,friends and enthusiasts that were living every virtual step of that hiking experience. Over the years, there have plenty and I mean plenty of close calls at the river, but in the end it comes down to freedom of choice. Hikers make choices every second of their hike through experience, education and friendly advice. What works well for some folks might not work at all for others. The new ferry operator's name is David Corrigan and I know he will do a great job, but there will be challenges everyday during the 160 plus straight days he oversees the river crossing. Please take a moment and put yourself in his "responsibility ridden" shoes when you trek on down to the river to exersize your freedom of choice. Thank you. SteveYou don't owe anyone an apology for anything.
fiddlehead
04-01-2008, 16:50
On the other hand, there are folks who loved the AT so much that they want to go try some of the other trails like the PCT and CDT.
There are tons of fords on those two trails, sometimes 5 a day! And this year the Sierras has had record snowfall and it will be tough fording them.
It's unfortunate that having learned all the AT has to offer a hiker, fording isn't one of the lessons learned.
Sure, there's big wilson stream and in high water it can be a learning experience.
But for the arduous hiker who wants to move onto more difficult trails and be comfortable doing them, the Kennebec can be a good education for a long ford where it is a good idea to keep your shoes on. (sort of like the Flathead in the "Bob" for CDT hikers)
So, yeah ferryman, here we go again. You obviously think it's stupid. Some of us do not!
Look at the PCT threads here on whiteblaze this year. There are some people a bit nervous about those record snow levels and the fords they are going to create. (and rightly so) Experience means a lot.
Be wise people. I wouldn't try to ford the Kennebec after a record snowfall winter when it is melting, or just after an 5" rain or similar (as they often get in Maine)
Keep in mind the deepest part is near the north side. Don't try it if you can't see the gravel bars.
I have confirmation from the ATC that the post in the other thread is indeed correct and there will be a ferry this season. Apparently, Laurie couldn't respond sooner because she was out hiking. :cool:
Have they ever considered building a foot bridge across the river?
Panzer
Wise Old Owl
04-01-2008, 20:07
Have they ever considered building a foot bridge across the river?
Panzer
Hey that is a good idea, now get 20,000 people with different philosophy's to agree on it - that's the ticket!
Have they ever considered building a foot bridge across the river? Panzer
It's been debated off and on for years. When the dams upstream were relicensed a few years ago, there was pressure to require the dam owners to build a bridge. Dam owners are required to provide for public recreation on the rivers they use.
I forget the figures, but the cost was estimated at hundreds of thousands of dollars. It takes a very high dam to survive flood waters when ice breaks up in the major rivers. Ice dams tend to build up stream and when they break the wall of water can be pretty immense.
MATC stopped building bridges over small streams because so many washed out so quickly.
We spent several years building one bridge near Saddleback and Bigelow. It washed away the first winter.
Weary
warraghiyagey
04-02-2008, 00:41
My apologies if anyone was offended by the previous thread posted by me, the former ferry service provider. I cannot for the life of me understand why so much controversy surrounds the Kennebec River crossing. We did our best to keep the ferry service as close to nature as was humanly possible, lived our lives around the schedule and then some for twenty years catering to every hiker's need the best we could have done. We were and remain freedom loving outdoor folks who just happened to be on the liability end of the stick. I have never met a hiker who wasn't having the adventure of a lifetime and with the advent of websites, there were hundreds even thousands of family members,friends and enthusiasts that were living every virtual step of that hiking experience. Over the years, there have plenty and I mean plenty of close calls at the river, but in the end it comes down to freedom of choice. Hikers make choices every second of their hike through experience, education and friendly advice. What works well for some folks might not work at all for others. The new ferry operator's name is David Corrigan and I know he will do a great job, but there will be challenges everyday during the 160 plus straight days he oversees the river crossing. Please take a moment and put yourself in his "responsibility ridden" shoes when you trek on down to the river to exersize your freedom of choice. Thank you. Steve
No sweat Steve. I,like thousands of others have been fortunate enough to enjoy the care you show bringing hikers across. This year I'm going to give my legs and aquatic experience a go. And Tell Wolf all about it when I finally meet him.:sun:sun
Lone Wolf
04-02-2008, 09:56
Today is the right day to honor all the fools who promote fording the Kennebec River! What with the snow pack up here in Maine right now, the two dams above the AT Kennebec Crossing will be running 24 X 7 right thru July. Sorry folks, but this thread continues to get my irish up even into retirement. Please let me distinguish between a Foboz and a half arse Foboz. A foboz creates havoc where none exists whereas a half arse foboz makes it half way across the river only to lose touch with planet earth and then expects the ferry service personnel to pull him out of the frying pan. That must be why liability insurance is over the top when experienced hikers or outdoorspeople continue to instruct others toward out of bound behaviors. The arguement to ford early mornings may just hold a ton of water for you. Play the odds and take the ferry. The life you save may be your own. Here we go again, Steve
how many times have you forded the river? and if you have, why if it's so dangerous?
warren doyle
04-02-2008, 12:03
Oh boy, another question that needs to be answered.
I have forded the river safely at least two dozen times. I have only turned back once (at night) because of high water and waited on the shore until dawn when it was safe. I have also swam across it in the afternoon (without a pack) to acquaint myself with it.
However, I have only forded it in the early morning (always before 8am) and only when the rock bars are showing (or there are riffles where the rock bars are) about 200 yards upstream.
My children forded it when they were in elementary school (I held their hands for added support).
I have also witnessed approximately 60 fellow hikers ford it safely without incident (except for a group of six 1975 Expedition members playing a game of Hearts in the 'deepest' part).
My next ford will be in the early morning on Wednesday August 25th during the 2010 AT Circle Expedition (at the age of 60). I look forward to it!
(more info on the 2010 AT Circle Expedition can be found on my website below)
Jim Adams
04-02-2008, 12:12
Oh boy, another question that needs to be answered.
I have forded the river safely at least two dozen times. I have only turned back once (at night) because of high water and waited on the shore until dawn when it was safe. I have also swam across it in the afternoon (without a pack) to acquaint myself with it.
However, I have only forded it in the early morning (always before 8am) and only when the rock bars are showing (or there are riffles where the rock bars are) about 200 yards upstream.
My children forded it when they were in elementary school (I held their hands for added support).
I have also witnessed approximately 60 fellow hikers ford it safely without incident (except for a group of six 1975 Expedition members playing a game of Hearts in the 'deepest' part).
My next ford will be in the early morning on Wednesday August 25th during the 2010 AT Circle Expedition (at the age of 60). I look forward to it!
(more info on the 2010 AT Circle Expedition can be found on my website below)
WD,
Lighten up! It can't be that much fun if you know 2 1/2 years ahead of time exactly when you will ford!:eek:
geek
WD: I have forded the river safely at least two dozen times. I have only turned back once (at night) because of high water and waited on the shore until dawn when it was safe. I have also swam across it in the afternoon (without a pack) to acquaint myself with it.
WD, my hero, Can't wait for the day when I grow up and become a real man like you WD ! Haha
The Old Fhart
04-02-2008, 12:31
Lone Wolf-"how many times have you forded the river? and if you have, why if it's so dangerous?"If you're seriously asking that question and not just trolling (again) then you totally lack any understanding of how that river works despite the reasons being posted here for years.
Steve understands that piece of river better than anyone and I'm satisfied to take his word for it over the macho/ego drunk ford or die minority.:banana
Lone Wolf
04-02-2008, 12:33
If you're seriously asking that question and not just trolling (again) then you totally lack any understanding of how that river works despite the reasons being posted here for years.
Steve understands that piece of river better than anyone and I'm satisfied to take his word for it over the macho/ego drunk ford or die minority.:banana
of course i'm serious. i've asked before, he's never answered. so i guess he's never forded. he may know the river at 2 in the afternoon but i know it at 6 am. it ain't dangerous
I am not answering for him.
Maine.
Canoe handy.
Paddle handy.
Why would he walk across?
Lone Wolf
04-02-2008, 12:38
I am not answering for him.
Maine.
Canoe handy.
Paddle handy.
Why would he walk across?
then he knows nothing about fording. just paddling
The Old Fhart
04-02-2008, 13:04
Lone Wolf-"he may know the river at 2 in the afternoon but i know it at 6 am."You posted that in the wrong section- this isn't humor.:D your dipping your toes in the river a couple of times doesn't make you an expert.
Steve's business IS the river as anyone who has visited or used his white water services knows. I'll take his word over yours any day. Wantabe experts who only see the river on a few days are a dime a dozen and overpriced at that.:rolleyes:
Lone Wolf
04-02-2008, 13:09
You posted that in the wrong section- this isn't humor.:D your dipping your toes in the river a couple of times doesn't make you an expert.
Steve's business IS the river as anyone who has visited or used his white water services knows. I'll take his word over yours any day. Wantabe experts who only see the river on a few days are a dime a dozen and overpriced at that.:rolleyes:
he only knows it when it's deep enuf to paddle. it's safe to ford early in the morning
he only knows it when it's deep enuf to paddle. it's safe to ford early in the morning
Don't need much water to float a canoe. If you don't mind using your junky paddle.
Lone Wolf
04-02-2008, 13:17
no need for a stinkin' canoe when the water is calf to thigh deep
no need for a stinkin' canoe when the water is calf to thigh deep
That would only be mid-summer mornings (thigh/waist deep)most years.
Why dont U and WD come up 1st of June and show us how its done. :D
Jim Adams
04-02-2008, 15:00
That would only be mid-summer mornings (thigh/waist deep)most years.
Why dont U and WD come up 1st of June and show us how its done. :D
most thru hikers are NOBOs and wouldn't be there by June.
I forded it in August of 1990 and it was only an inch or so above my knees...and I'M short.
Took the ferry in 2002....I'm a canoeist and enjoyed the ferry but the first time...don't know, the ford just seemed more traditional.
geek
That would only be mid-summer mornings (thigh/waist deep)most years.
Why dont U and WD come up 1st of June and show us how its done. :D
That water will bruise your kidneys, when the boys try to hide.
That would only be mid-summer mornings (thigh/waist deep)most years.
Why dont U and WD come up 1st of June and show us how its done. :D
An excellent idea.
Weary
warren doyle
04-02-2008, 22:45
Why would I try to ford the Kennebec when there is a greater chance of it being unsafe even in the morning? I don't like to take unnecessary risks when there are safer options to choose from.
That's why early morning in July, August, September and early October (except after a heavy rainfall in the upper watershed) has been a fine time to ford for this NOBO thru and SOBO section hiker.
Maineiac
04-18-2008, 08:35
Getting back to the original topic:
2008 Schedule:
2008 May 23 through July 179 a.m. to 11 a.m. onlyJuly 18 through September 309 a.m. to 11 a.m. and 2 p.m. to 4 p.m.October 1 through October 139 a.m. to 11 a.m. only
warraghiyagey
04-18-2008, 08:41
That water will bruise your kidneys, when the boys try to hide.
http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/laughing010.gif
Maineiac
04-18-2008, 08:42
Sorry that all ran together. Hope this is more readable.
2008 Schedule:
May 23 through July 17: 9:00 am to 11:00 am ONLY
July 18 through September 30: 9:00 am to 11:00 am AND 2:00 pm to 4:00 pm
October 1 through October 13: 9:00 am to 11:00 am ONLY
more info at http://www.matc.org/matcq&a.htm#KennebecFerry
I know I may not be legitimized as a thru hiker yet , BUT i personally believe just take the stinking canoe , since upstream there is a dam and the water level can suddenly fall or rise to unsafe level , im guessing that even a slight surge to cause the river at the crossing to raise just a few inches wold carry hundreds of pounds of force and could plow you right over and theres no way to tell when it might happen, i am by no means an expert ive crossed a couple rivers . you just read the possibly paranoid ramblings of a green horn thru hiker but what i do know for a fact is safe is better than sorry no matter how silly it makes you look
of course i'm serious. i've asked before, he's never answered. so i guess he's never forded. he may know the river at 2 in the afternoon but i know it at 6 am. it ain't dangerous
Well, I believe you when you say it's never been dangerous when you crossed at 6 a.m.
Now tell us what evidence you have that it is NEVER dangerous at 6 a.m.
Weary
Lone Wolf
04-20-2008, 22:12
Well, I believe you when you say it's never been dangerous when you crossed at 6 a.m.
Now tell us what evidence you have that it is NEVER dangerous at 6 a.m.
now tell us what evidence you have that it is EVER dangerous at 6 a.m.
now tell us what evidence you have that it is EVER dangerous at 6 a.m.Not to interrupt this thread with a request for facts, but how many people have drowned fording the Kennebec? Does anyone know?
Jack Tarlin
04-20-2008, 23:24
One that I know of.
Is that enough?
fiddlehead
04-21-2008, 03:02
I've heard of one. I heard it was a woman and not a thru hiker. I guess what that means is maybe she wasn't aware of the dam release or the fact that it is best to ford early morning.
I've said it before but it would be nice if the release schedule was posted on both sides with an approximation of when it arrives at the AT crossing.
I wouldn't want to ford it when spring runoff is going on though.
But i did enjoy it on my SOBO at 6 am in Oct. 2001
Straight Forward This will be a very strict forum. It is for questions and answers. Any deviation from subject will be deleted.:::::First post was only asking if ferry was to be open not all the BS about fording
Jack Tarlin
04-21-2008, 07:29
Fiddlehead:
The woman who died was a section hiker and had been hiking the A.T. for 8 years prior to her death.
There's no reason she was uninformed or "unaware" of water releases, etc. But there's every possibility that she'd heard, or had been led to believe that it was safe to ford.
(Forgive the topic deviation , MRC, but Fiddlehead's comment needed a response.)
Fiddlehead:
The woman who died was a section hiker and had been hiking the A.T. for 8 years prior to her death.
There's no reason she was uninformed or "unaware" of water releases, etc. But there's every possibility that she'd heard, or had been led to believe that it was safe to ford.
(Forgive the topic deviation , MRC, but Fiddlehead's comment needed a response.)
And a good respose it is! BTW MrC is actually EZ
fiddlehead
04-21-2008, 07:59
Don't know where i heard that she wasn't a thru-hiker. I don't think it was on whiteblaze.
Anyway, sorry for trying to answer someone's question. (isn't that what forums are for though?)
How did you get the name EZ anyway?
now tell us what evidence you have that it is EVER dangerous at 6 a.m.
Well, the company that owns the dam says it is dangerous and I have no reason to believe it is lying.
Plus I know the opening and closing of the dam up stream is controlled by someone in Massachusetts that controls all the power stations in most of New England. Because hydro power comes on almost instantaneously it is used whenever a mishap occurs in the system, and unexpected demand occurs.
The rumor that the river is always easy to ford at 6 a.m. stems from the fact that most mornings it is relatively safer, since peak New England power demand in the summer tends to occur late mornings and afternoons. It's the unexpected power generating problems that cause unexpected rises in river levels.
Finally, Maine is negotiating as we write to get out of the New England power pool and join with the Maritime Provinces power pool, which may or may not change the usual regime of dam openings.
FWIW. The drowning that resulted in trail clubs spending $20,000 or so a year to hire a ferry person occurred in the 80s. I vaguely remember hearing she was attempting a north bound thru hike. But, at least, she was quite likely what most people would call a long distance hiker, since there is little reason to hike that section of the trail unless you want to do long sections. The easy road access is the Long Falls Dam road. The easiest and most likely destination for someone hoping to catch a shuttle back to a car is Monson.
Weary
Jack Tarlin
04-21-2008, 08:42
According to the March/April '08 issue of AT Journey, she was a section-hiker, doing a Northbound section every year since 1977 (She died in 1985).
One can only wonder which trail "expert" or veteran helped convince her that fording was easy or safe.
It doesn't matter.
6 AM or 6PM, the experts and the people who know the river best are in universal agreement:
Fording the river is risky, dangerous, and life-threatening, and this is as true in 2008 as it was twenty-three years ago.
fiddlehead
04-21-2008, 09:28
I've said this before and i'll say it again:
There's gonna be a lot of PCT thru hikers out there this year in a record snowfall year with little to no experience at fording tough rivers. Now if the record snow levels in the Sierras are true, fording will be some of the toughest of any thru out of the big 3.
My point has always been that fording the Kennebec is good experience for those who hope to continue their hiking and someday hike more arduous trails.
Now if that's thread drift , i'm sorry (again)
warren doyle
04-21-2008, 09:42
I've said this before and i'll say it again:
There's gonna be a lot of PCT thru hikers out there this year in a record snowfall year with little to no experience at fording tough rivers. Now if the record snow levels in the Sierras are true, fording will be some of the toughest of any thru out of the big 3.
My point has always been that fording the Kennebec is good experience for those who hope to continue their hiking and someday hike more arduous trails.
Now if that's thread drift , i'm sorry (again)
I fully support your reasoning. It's common sense.
No need to apologize to those who don't support it.
I've said this before and i'll say it again:
There's gonna be a lot of PCT thru hikers out there this year in a record snowfall year with little to no experience at fording tough rivers. Now if the record snow levels in the Sierras are true, fording will be some of the toughest of any thru out of the big 3.
My point has always been that fording the Kennebec is good experience for those who hope to continue their hiking and someday hike more arduous trails.
Now if that's thread drift , i'm sorry (again)
I agree, but I don't remember ANY fords on the PCT that are as wide as the Kennebec. It is the distance from one shore to the other that would worry me about the 'Bec. The longest distance between land on the PCT was Evolution Creek, which was very benign.
Then again, I hiked the PCT in a very low snow and water level.
It's really quite simple. People need to be self sufficient out there. That's what backpacking is all about. The canoe will be available - for those who want to take it. And most will. It's there to help hikers, and to help the MATC and ATC mitigate any potential liability issues regarding the crossing.
For those that choose to ford, they had better be aware of their own capabilities, and understand the potential consequences of their decision. Anyone choosing to ford the Kennebec is on their own.
Personally, I am all for people being allowed to make their own informed decisions.
And yeah, Evolution Creek was a blast in '06! As I recall, the waterfall a few hundred yards downstream makes that crossing an interesting one.
Alligator
04-21-2008, 11:09
How many of those PCT fords have a dam a short ways upstream ready to release water for power? Just wondering.
How many of those PCT fords have a dam a short ways upstream ready to release water for power? Just wondering.
I think all the fordable rivers run wild out on the PCT. Though I could be wrong.
Hiking slot canyons out west. Now THAT'S some interesting & unpredictable stuff!!
Alligator
04-21-2008, 11:56
I think all the fordable rivers run wild out on the PCT. Though I could be wrong.
Hiking slot canyons out west. Now THAT'S some interesting & unpredictable stuff!!You obviously agree that it's not comparable then, otherwise you wouldn't have changed the comparison. Yes, people do hike slot canyons, and they get killed in those too as a result of being ignorant of their risk. It's still not the same though because there's no canoe in the canyons. Nor is the perceived "success" the same, these being crossing the river or viewing the canyon. Women will swoon over you if you ford the Kennebec:cool:.
Post # 1 Question asked. Post # 3 question answered. (over 3 weeks ago)The rest is chest thumping BS! Close the thread.
You obviously agree that it's not comparable then, otherwise you wouldn't have changed the comparison. Yes, people do hike slot canyons, and they get killed in those too as a result of being ignorant of their risk. It's still not the same though because there's no canoe in the canyons. Nor is the perceived "success" the same, these being crossing the river or viewing the canyon. Women will swoon over you if you ford the Kennebec:cool:.
I don't advocate fording the Kennebec, and never have. But I will defend someone's right to make an informed decision about fording. And women swoon over me regardless. ;)
Other things that might effect (affect?) the water flow.
Dumping water for maintenance.
Dumping water for future storage, prior to hurricane/supercell.
Dumping water so they can search for a carcass in the upstream watershed.
Time to bicker about sticks.
Nightwalker
04-21-2008, 13:28
I've been enjoying my hike so far this year. My slow butt is only as far as Fontana. I'm leaving this afternoon on a FHT hike with my dog because she thinks I'm mad at her (I haven't taken her on the AT yet this year). I'll go back to Fontana next weekend.
When I get to the Kennebec, I'll probably take the canoe. Everyone else should do it whichever way that they want, and for whatever reasons that they want.
I haven't missed the internet at all. Arguments like this are one good reason! :)
warraghiyagey
04-21-2008, 13:50
Seems this thread just took a sociopathic turn. Yikes.
Alligator
04-21-2008, 13:58
It's got everything to do with the drought in Australia.
max patch
04-21-2008, 14:03
And some people understand what "Straight Forward" thread means. Some people don't.
Well, I don't disagree with anything Warren has said. I just think it wrong to suggest that fording the Kennebec is always a piece of cake.
Do the ford if you want. I might try it myself, except for some reason my knees -- and recently my shoulder -- has started being more troublesome than I suspected they would a few decades ago.
I think I'll wait until they get better. Do you suppose knees and shoulders get better for everyone. I'll be 79 in a couple of weeks. Let me know if you think I should be optimistic about sometime being able to ford the Kennebec easily. All I'm suggesting is that good advice for some, isn't necessarily good for all.
Weary
fiddlehead
04-21-2008, 21:12
Of course you are right as usual Weary. Of course the fording the river is not for everybody. Of course it is not always easily fordable. What river is?
My point was that if you are hoping to do one of the other big trails, fording is something that will be scary and tough on many occasions and some experience at the technique(s) is a plus.
I was scared big time at a small creek crossing on the AT in '95 a day after a hurricane came through the area and dumped about 9" of rain in one day.
Common sense (and perhaps a schedule) and knowledge of the gravel bars showing or not, and time of day, and knowing where it gets deepest, etc. all should be contributing factors in any decision.
Perhaps we need to start a new thread as the whiners are getting louder. (some people follow every rule they can find, some don't)
Weary,
I ask my father in law he said the answer to your questions is yes. He is a little older than you. He also asked how the hell someone made it to 78 years old and still wanted to walk through a river with cold Maine water, when a perfectly good boat was near by :>))
Clyde
warren doyle
04-21-2008, 23:29
Well, I don't disagree with anything Warren has said. I just think it wrong to suggest that fording the Kennebec is always a piece of cake.
Do the ford if you want. I might try it myself, except for some reason my knees -- and recently my shoulder -- has started being more troublesome than I suspected they would a few decades ago.
I think I'll wait until they get better. Do you suppose knees and shoulders get better for everyone. I'll be 79 in a couple of weeks. Let me know if you think I should be optimistic about sometime being able to ford the Kennebec easily. All I'm suggesting is that good advice for some, isn't necessarily good for all.
Weary
In all my posting on the Kennebec ford, I never said it was 'a piece of cake'; neither did I say it was 'easy' nor 'good for all'.
Who I do differ with are those people who say fording the Kennebec is always dangerous. Through actual experience, I do not believe this line of reasoning and therefore can't accept it.
Under the proper conditions, the Kennebec is not dangerous to cross. Difficult? - yes. Challenging? - yes. Satisfying? - yes. Fun? - for some people. Easy? - no. Piece of cake? - no. Dangerous? - sometimes. Safe? - sometimes.
I wonder sometime when I will become too old physically to ford the Kennebec safely, but oh the memories I will have from 1973 until then.
One that I know of.
Is that enough?Is one enough?
I honestly don't think that is an answerable question because I don't think anyone makes a rational decision in that manner.
I think we either feel in our gut that something is safe or not safe, and we use whichever argument - "Only one person died in five or whatever years" or "Someone died, what more do you need" - that supports our pre-determined position.
Several people have died winter hiking in the Whites. Has it deterred me? No. I think it is safe as long as I follow certain guidelines. I guess I feel the same about the Kennebec. On hte other hand, I don't like roller coasters, and talk of one accident, even a non-fatal one, is "enough" for me.
A couple years ago an unfortunate fellow had a few beers in Duncannon and died after being hit by a train. "Is one enough" for you (or anyone) to now not drink in Duncannon? No, of course not. You simply do what it takes to be as safe as possible and avoid such an accident.
I think we look at the safety of something through glasses tinted and shaded by what we want to do. For some, one drowning is not enough to stop them from fording the Kennebec, for some, one winter-hiking fatality is not enough for them to stop winter hiking, and for others, one drinking related death is not enough to stop them from drinking.
So I guess I answered the question after all. No, one is not enough.
warren doyle
04-22-2008, 08:25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Tarlin http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/styles/wb_style/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=600909#post600909)
One that I know of.
Is that enough?
"Is one enough?
I honestly don't think that is an answerable question because I don't think anyone makes a rational decision in that manner.
I think we either feel in our gut that something is safe or not safe, and we use whichever argument - "Only one person died in five or whatever years" or "Someone died, what more do you need" - that supports our pre-determined position.
Several people have died winter hiking in the Whites. Has it deterred me? No. I think it is safe as long as I follow certain guidelines. I guess I feel the same about the Kennebec. On hte other hand, I don't like roller coasters, and talk of one accident, even a non-fatal one, is "enough" for me.
A couple years ago an unfortunate fellow had a few beers in Duncannon and died after being hit by a train. "Is one enough" for you (or anyone) to now not drink in Duncannon? No, of course not. You simply do what it takes to be as safe as possible and avoid such an accident.
I think we look at the safety of something through glasses tinted and shaded by what we want to do. For some, one drowning is not enough to stop them from fording the Kennebec, for some, one winter-hiking fatality is not enough for them to stop winter hiking, and for others, one drinking related death is not enough to stop them from drinking.
So I guess I answered the question after all. No, one is not enough."
Be careful Frosty, you are treading on deep water here.
Now let's see...hundreds of AT hikers have forded the Kennebec over the last 30-35 years (with most of them in the 70's and early 80's). One person has died.
Billville has sponsored 5-7 Hiker Feeds in Port Clinton/Duncannon with less hikers attending than those who have forded the Kennebec safely. Yet, one hiker has died in this event's short history.
It sure raises who has the 'moral authority' to chastize those few hikers who want to ford the Kennebec while being sober and during safe water levels.
SGT Rock
04-22-2008, 09:18
Gentlemen,
While most folks know I happen to agree it should be a person's choice whether or not to ford the Kennebec and how I often participated in this debate, I will have to close this thread down. ATTroll and I talked about it last night and with our new policy on "Straight Forward" the current debate is too much deviation from the original question as to the status of the ferry being open.
Thanks for your input. It makes for a great reading and a good debate - but all sides have had a say and as always, the individual gets to choose what to do.
What a country!