A very interesting tool that really works when Hiking.

[Wise Old Owl]

I have worked very hard on training my "rescued" dogs in being good social animals. After loosing one dog 8 years ago to a car, I yanked the old generic house fence system out and replaced it with "Pet Safe" Now I am not endorsing this product - I don't work for them in any relationship. Yet after reading many WB threads for ideas to better train my Lab-mix mutt to be a polite social animal on the trail. I could not solve one issue with my current level of training.

Training a dog off leash! I could call him back from chasing a squirrel, but in a rare instance I could not call him back from meeting another dog loose on the trail, even with a dog whistle. later he would run around me knowing he did something wrong and didn't want to get punished. I like using a whistle and the dog loves to run right back most of the time. It appears to be a focused distraction issue where my dog would benifit from Riddlin! Just kidding - Anyway welcome to my new found back up time saver!

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg275/MarkSwarbrick/64.jpgI spent about $165 on this and it really worked in the woods & open feild. I can send a correction tone then choose to send a tickle to a corrective shock. I have even used it around the property to fix little issues in behavior. The box included a great idea book that really helped with problem fixes.

I use a leash most of the time but if nobody is around and he wants a drink of water I let him go with no further worries.

That being said I put this out there because I know some you will have questions about these products on the trail and I will be happy to tell you my experiences - However, Weasel, Tater, and M.Smith don't bother posting,- I am not saying you are haters, you just don't need to post on every dog thread.

[Trail Yeti]

I have tried these before....with mixed results. My dogs fur is too thick, even with the extended prongs. My roommates dog responded well at first....until she realized that all she had to do was "take the pain" for 30 seconds or so while she ran out of range. However, another friend had one and it worked fantastic. Reckon it depends on the dog...

[Two Speed]

Yep. Dogs are individuals and training has to be adapted to the individual dog's personality.

I've seen similar units and considered using one; just haven't had to with my mutt.

[NorthCountryWoods]

The hunt training ones have longer ranges, are waterproof and more options. Most have tones so the shock isn't necessary once the dog associates the two.

They are more expensive tho.

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/category/category.jsp?id=cat603205&cmCat=MainCatcat603205&navAction=jump&cm_re=store*left*cat603205

[borntobeoutdoors]

I have one for my pointer/greyhound. It's great. the first time i put it on him about 2 years ago, i only had to zap him once. Now whenever it's on, he's on perfect behavior. All I have to do is press the beep button and he returns to my side immediately.

You do have to invest in a good one though. I had one once that was like $40.00 and it was useless. I paid around $200 for the current one. It has a one mile range with good conditions. But since I never let him wander too far or out of my sight the range is fine.

Hawk

[Wise Old Owl]

I have one for my pointer/greyhound. It's great. the first time i put it on him about 2 years ago, i only had to zap him once. Now whenever it's on, he's on perfect behavior. All I have to do is press the beep button and he returns to my side immediately.

You do have to invest in a good one though. I had one once that was like $40.00 and it was useless. I paid around $200 for the current one. It has a one mile range with good conditions. But since I never let him wander too far or out of my sight the range is fine.

Hawk


So he misbehaves when you take it off?

[Rain Man]

My experience with Pet Safe.

I tried a Pet Safe underground system from Home Depot. Was a cheap piece of crap. The cheap plastic collar snaps kept breaking. I spent lots of time walking around the yard, crawling under shrubs, and generally looking for missing collars (which meant the under-powered shock boxes were missing too),-- sometimes never found because the dogs had left the yard. The company could not have cared less that their cheap collar snaps repeatedly broke. I finally bought some "real" collars myself and adapted the collars to hold the shock boxes. One of the ladies who answers the phone for Pet Safe admitted to me that she did the same thing.

Worse yet, their transmitter boxes kept going on the fritz. I have SIX old Pet Safe transmitter boxes setting in my garage right now. Some they sent me under warranty or only after I badgered them. Others, they charged me for. They kept blaming the wiring, saying it had "partial breaks." However, each time I put on a new box, the system worked again, so obviously it was not the wiring, their favorite scapegoat.

Not to mention, the shock collars were not adjustable, and were too weak to keep our two dogs in the yard.

Finally, after two or three years of disgust with Pet Safe, we invested in a "real" system from a local company (Pet Stop). It cost a lot more initially, but (1) it had real collars, not "toy" collars, (2) it had adjustable shock levels that really work, and (3) every piece came with a lifetime warranty (no long distance phone calls arguing over the cause of the system failing, which the new Pet Stop system hasn't done anyway). Pet Stop has replaced one bad/rusty collar shock box (wife didn't tighten battery compartment tightly enough) without question. So, the cost is less in the long-run, and most of all,-- the system WORKS, whereas Pet Safe simply did not work and they would NOT stand behind their product.

BTW, the new Pet Stop system uses the same underground wiring I installed for the Pet Safe system, and it hasn't once failed due to "partial breaks," Pet Safe's convenient over-the-phone excuse for everything.

Having said all that, NO DOG on the AT should be off a lease, ever.

Rain:sunMan

.

[borntobeoutdoors]

So he misbehaves when you take it off?

Sometimes, around the house, just being a dog! :)

he get's enthusiastic, especially when i have company. He likes to jump and stand on his hind legs and put his paws all over them, or hang ariund the dinner table if we are eating, he only does this when we have company.

All i have to do is oput the cillar on and his behavior gets much better. If he does misbehave, all i have to do is point any remote, like the tv remote at him and he obeys instantly.

The collar certainly makes things much easier and safer for him. But especially on the trail. I don't need a physical leash on him (Although I do cary one and use it when we are around other hikers or dogs) and he stays in sight, returning as soon as he hears the beep.

Hawk

Hawk

[Toolshed]

We have had 2 Pet Safe Systems installed in several homes. We got smart and last time we moved, we took the transmitter with us. We have two dogs, both Brits and one is very stubborn.
I have learned a lot since we put the first one in in 2000

If you buy anything "Pet-safe" and not paying a local Pet-safe distributor, you are not getting what I consider quality.
- I have recently helped all 3 neighbors with their systems. 2 went the Home Depot and one went with the pro installer. No issues 2 years later with the pr installed one. Both other neighbors constantly have broken lines, have had to upgrade transmitters and one neighbor has gone through 4 receivers (collars) for his 2 huge dogs.
- Pro-TX1 Transmitter. you can only get this transmitter through a pro install or through EBay. They are expensive, but worth it. When we moved to our new house 2.5 years ago, we took our old transmitter from Boston and I rented a trencher and bought enough Pet-safe wire at Home Depot to do 2 of our 4.5 acres.
I have had at least a half dozen wire-breaks in the past 2.5 years. I bought a break finder and use waterproof splices, but it is a PITA. I will pony up the money next year and have the Pet-safe Pro Installer put a good wire down.

Don;t depend on the fence or shock, depend on the training. It takes diligence the first month of owning your fence to walk each dog around 2X/day shaking the flags and saying "no"!. you also have to remember to remove every other flag every week, until they are all gone. The behavior only comes with thorough training. Not with shock punishment (I have my default set to beep first then shock.

I was absolutely amazed that after we training dour dogs, we have never had a break in obedience. Sometimes we leave the fence off (especially during T-Storm season as we are on a hill) and the dogs, though getting older, still go nowhere near the area of the fence.

Always invest in a lightening protector. If you value your transmitter it is worth the extra $50 and peace of mind. My wife saw our neighbors house get hit by lightening back in 2001 (we lived on another hill) I thought she was nuts and that she was imagining it. A week later our neighbor told us everything was fried - Wiring in the walls, all tVs, computers, electrical appliances.. Insurance covered most of it. Said it sounded like bacon sizzling. It took them over a month to get everything up and running again, including having to have all their wiring rechecked and I believe re-inspected to code for insurance purposes.

[Wise Old Owl]

Wow RainMan,

My first system was from Home Depot too, and it was junk, later I discovered it was on the Citizen's Band Channel and was made in China - But it wasn't Pet Safe, I have had no issues with the product, I bought last year by name brand. The Fence equipment really works. My son went out trimming the bushes one day and the alarm went off and he had cut the wire. We fixed it before it became a hazard. oh well, Guess you had the early stuff.

[peanuts]

what happened to fencing your property????:rolleyes:;)

[Nearly Normal]

what happened to fencing your property????:rolleyes:;)

I had a black lab that would jump a standard hurricane fence. He climbed an eight foot fence of chicken wire once to get to a bitch in season. He just about tore it down. I've seen dogs jump through a screened door and window.
If a dog wants out he will go, unless you have him in a kennel type pen on concrete.

[The Weasel]

***That being said I put this out there because I know some you will have questions about these products on the trail and I will be happy to tell you my experiences - However, Weasel, Tater, and M.Smith don't bother posting,- I am not saying you are haters, you just don't need to post on every dog thread.

Owl, don't let North turn you into someone who thinks they can say who can and who can't ask questions. Most of my posts had training points or issues with problems that those who hike with dogs need to deal with, rather than the "My dog is fine and shut up" approach North feels is the case.

Your product looks interesting, and may deal with some of the concerns I have for people bringing dogs. I'm going to look into it, and if I have questions/comments, I'll post them. You don't get to tell people not to. Perhaps you will be more willing to discuss things than North, and if so, I'll enjoy that.

TW

[The Weasel]

Owl:

It looks to me that these work on a high-frequency sound signal, and have ranges "up to" 30 feet. Are you suggesting that these are useful on the trail, or for training dogs to be more trail-usable? How would you simulate trail-type situations (strange animal smells, unusual looking strangers, hiking stress, whatever) without being at-risk?

TW

[Nomad94]

Hey Owl:

Kudos on the rescues, have a great one myself.

I don't know why they let the threads get trashed here -- pretty clear some folks are ignoring the spirit/rules of the forum.

For me, the ignore function works wonders. Cuts down on bp meds. Improves snr. Ymmv.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge/experience :sun

Your guys must get a work out if you get up by the Pinnacle (Dan's Pulpit photos). Section up there with mine every couple of months.

[Wise Old Owl]

Owl:

It looks to me that these work on a high-frequency sound signal, and have ranges "up to" 30 feet. Are you suggesting that these are useful on the trail, or for training dogs to be more trail-usable? How would you simulate trail-type situations (strange animal smells, unusual looking strangers, hiking stress, whatever) without being at-risk?

TW


Not anymore ...this is clearly radio and the dog might be smart enough as the new guy to figure it out. Rugby & and I had an awkward moment for ten minutes as I shocked him for running away and not "coming" when called ..then he relented and came back. After that all was well.

[NorthCountryWoods]

Owl, don't let North turn you into someone who thinks they can say who can and who can't ask questions. Most of my posts had training points or issues with problems that those who hike with dogs need to deal with, rather than the "My dog is fine and shut up" approach North feels is the case.

Your product looks interesting, and may deal with some of the concerns I have for people bringing dogs. I'm going to look into it, and if I have questions/comments, I'll post them. You don't get to tell people not to. Perhaps you will be more willing to discuss things than North, and if so, I'll enjoy that.

TW

I'm sorry...when did I say this? Please post a link. :confused:

Or are you still pouting because I pointed out the rules you couldn't seem to comprehend? :-?

[RiverWarriorPJ]

..I bought one of the shock training units when Zeus II was a newly rescued wild & uncontrolable large pup......I spent about $135 for the device....All it did was prove how smart dogs can be...On the second day of use, he figured out the range of the transmitter.....From that day on.....once he got the 1st zap, he vigorously shook his head & ran full bore in the opposite direction until he was out of range......any one wanna buy a "slightly" used dog training collar..??..

[Philippe]

I have hunted in the past with a friend who uses a device like this. He has two setters that can be quite hyperactive, but the warning whistle he gives almost always turns them around without him needing to push the "zap" button. That's because they know what is coming if they don't come come back. The radio range is more like a quarter of a mile than 30 ft. This isn't the invisible fence type. This is for being out in the woods and fields with dogs who like to run.

[Toolshed]

I had a black lab that would jump a standard hurricane fence. He climbed an eight foot fence of chicken wire once to get to a bitch in season. He just about tore it down. I've seen dogs jump through a screened door and window.
If a dog wants out he will go, unless you have him in a kennel type pen on concrete.

LOL...
We used to breed our brits. We decided to give them a year off, which meant our female going through heat for 2 sessions and having to put up with watching the tenacity and ultimate the agony of our male. We had her locked in our 6'x12' kennel which was constructed of 6' high fencing panels bolted together. We further used a chain with a carabiner on it to lock the gate (due to his constant barrages with his nose trying to get to her, he would loosen everything up and his nose over the course of several days would be bloodied and bruised).
So one Saturday Morning while the female was in heat, my wife starts screaming to go to the kennel. I run out the door to see our male precariously "climbing" over the top of the 6' fence and jump/fall (Hybrid jump) down onto the female and take her. By the time I could get the gate open, he had her in full swing and they were completely connected with no way to tear them apart.
We did have 9 beautiful Brittany Pups that year :D:D

[Wise Old Owl]

Peanuts-I have too many trees along the border and one of my neighbors did just that, they took off all the branches up to 6 feet and put in a chain link. If I took a picture you would agree it "looks like hell." a wire inserted just inside the perimitter runs the property and returns to the box inside the garage. The dogs hear a tone first that tells they are getting too close. If the dog gets on top of the wire they then get a shock. After some training they generally stop trying but early on I watch him chase a cat off the property and when he got to the wire he tried jumping it, in mid air you could see the dog wince and collapse, he didn't hit the ground right, after that he never tried it again. The funniest moment was when he begged to go outside and ran full speed at a squirrel just on the outside of the fence. As he got the tone he put the breaks on and the leaves & squirrel went flying!

I just don't like visible fences, I like my woods, and I am not going to loose another dog who heads up to the road to be hit by a car again.

[Wise Old Owl]

..I bought one of the shock training units when Zeus II was a newly rescued wild & uncontrolable large pup......I spent about $135 for the device....All it did was prove how smart dogs can be...On the second day of use, he figured out the range of the transmitter.....From that day on.....once he got the 1st zap, he vigorously shook his head & ran full bore in the opposite direction until he was out of range......any one wanna buy a "slightly" used dog training collar..??..

Ah, You have to keep working at it. - I keep a Slim Jim in my pocket as a reward. I call, he comes, I break off a piece and praise him. He runs away I call & hit the tone, no response? Mild Shock. On day two he did the same thing ran in the wrong direction, I waited about ten minutes and waved the Slim Jim pretending to eat it and he came back.

Yesterday, we were out and one of my biggest fears on the trail is Horses. I had no idea how he would react, My fear was missplaced, I was greeted by a couple on horseback with two hunting dogs and they also had the collar system for their dogs. We got to talking after I asked permission to approch. Rugby did very well, just a little too excited. He didn't run up to them - so he is learning.

[Rouen]

As far as property fencing goes... I'd rely more a physical barrier, not just mental barrier. I use to work on a farm that had 2 dogs, the owners purchased a 500$ invisable fence. Atleast 4 times a week the dogs would take off. They'd come back a few hours later sitting on the opposite side of the fence because they didn't want to get zapped for coming back home. the initial zap going across the wire as they took off wasn't enough to stop them. With that said, my neighbors akitas respect a physical barrier as small as 4" tall regardless as to whats on the other side. I dont doubt they'd go right through an invisable fence though.

[Wise Old Owl]

Yes that's what I went through with the cheap Lowes Do-it-yourself years ago, The new stuff is above & beyond all that. Without the training and the flags you can expect the same result. A lot of people buy this stuff as a quick fix without training the dog. Shame on them - and me, because that is what I did the first time. - and lost a dog.

Now I train - And spend the quality time with the pet - The new systems included booklets with thoughts on training.

[The Weasel]

I'm sorry...when did I say this? Please post a link. :confused:

Or are you still pouting because I pointed out the rules you couldn't seem to comprehend? :-?

North, if you want to continue to engage in flaming, do it elsewhere. If you want to ask and answer questions about how dogs can function as well as possible on the trail, including interactions with their owners and with others, that's my preference.

TW

[The Weasel]

Not anymore ...this is clearly radio and the dog might be smart enough as the new guy to figure it out. Rugby & and I had an awkward moment for ten minutes as I shocked him for running away and not "coming" when called ..then he relented and came back. After that all was well.

Tell me more: "Radio" suggests a low power FM signal. Much of my hiking out west here is in essentially "open" areas, without a lot of interference. Other parts have a lot of rocky outcroppings. Some (as is often the case back east) is very wooded. How far away do you think this can work in open/rocky/woody areas. I'm also thinking about the AT, with its winding trails around the sides of hills/mountains, with constantly new coves.

TW

[Wise Old Owl]

This piece of equipment is designed for field use. There are two buttons for use one sends a tone the other sends a variable amount of shock from a tickle to a ouch. The handset is a 9 volt and the collar is two cr little batteries. the Collar has an on off switch and a led to confirm on and off. The range was described as a football feild. The dog has been over 100 feet away and I could hear the collar.
The box says 100 yards range

More exspensive units are three football fields in the $300-$400 range.