View Full Version : What do you need for an overnight?
desdemona
03-28-2008, 00:44
I haven't done this for years and years and years. But what kind of gear would I need for an overnight in spring, summer, fall months (warm climate-- low wouldn't be under 40 degrees).
Could I get by on REI day pack? I would want to get to a decent camp site.
--des
smokymtnsteve
03-28-2008, 00:51
yes...or less...
Nearly Normal
03-28-2008, 05:53
A decent site where?
Things to consider:
1) Are you going to hike more, or be in camp more? For longer distances, weight is the supreme consideration. For short distances, lots of camp time, comfort rules.
2) Budget. From a few hundred to several thousand--how much do you want to spend on this? For the low-budget option, search the various gear challenges (on Whiteblaze and elsewhere) where people put together a complete outfit for two to six hundred dollars.
For myself...I'd spend half my budget on the sleeping bag, probably Western Mountaineering, Feathered Friends, or Nunatak. Shires Tarptent (although I am now coveting Anti-Gravity Gear's new tent). ULA or Gossamer Gear pack.
Do you like to sew? The Ray-Way kits are a great value.
If I were planning to go out once or twice a year, though, I'd probably go lower-budget. Check out gear rental from your local REI and other outfitters. It would be money well spent to use the stuff for a weekend and see if it will work for you. Then you can actually get out there and see what other people are using...and develop your wish list from there.
The pack you need depends on what you need to carry. Gear list first, then the pack for it.
aaroniguana
03-28-2008, 09:18
Yeah I did it the other way around and now I'm hurting for volume. But I have adjusted.
Read the Articles section on the home page.
Consider getting some low budget gear to get started with, you will want different later.
I haven't done this for years and years and years. But what kind of gear would I need for an overnight in spring, summer, fall months (warm climate-- low wouldn't be under 40 degrees).
Could I get by on REI day pack? I would want to get to a decent camp site.
--desAs others have said, worry about the pack last.
Have you tried just sleeping in a basic bivy under a poncho/tarp?
Don't knock it 'til you've tried it.
Blue Foam Pad. 72"x28"x0.375" Go full sized here and you won't need a ground sheet. You can always cut it down later. You probably will.
Sleeping Bag: 2+ pounds, but make sure at least half the weight in insulation.
Bivy sack: Keep it simple, just enough to keep the rain off. Tyvex maybe.
Poncho/tarp: Mine is small and simple and cheap. Waterproofed Nylon.
But you are really asking about minimal volume for short warm climate overnight trips. Let's talk about how I would pack it first. The blue foam pad is rather bulky, and especially for a warm climate there are less volumous and more comfortable alternatives, though none cheaper or warmer for its weight. Are you more concerned about weight or volume. Or do you just want to be able to use the same day pack you use everyday. I can understand that. I have a couple of daypacks I really love.
Not sure what you are asking.
What size of day pack, 1800ci, under a pound?
Why not high volume light weight, like 3100ci, 20oz?
Will you be trail running?
How many days food?
I think it is easier to go light weight if you don't go too small on volume.
Hope that helps.
bloodmountainman
03-28-2008, 09:50
Things needed for an overnight hike-camp:
Food and preparation device(utensils)
Comfortable sleeping gear
Shelter (optional)
Water or beverages( your choice)
Something to carry essentials in.
Sense of adventure
Backpack camping is simple!
This might help.
In summer mode, 4-5 days, my volume could taken up as little as follows:
Pad: 400 ci
Bag/Bivy/Tarp: 400 ci
Food: 400 ci
Other: 400 ci
==========
1600 ci
But it would be just as light and a lot easier to go 2400ci. I use a JAM2 now, at 3100ci, and it only weighs 20oz. In winter it is packed 30" for the full 3100ci and things are a bit tight but I'm working on a front pack to go with it. In summer with just a 20" or 24" wide pad it can shrink down to something shorter, but I usually just pack it less densely, which saves alot of time and headaches.
berninbush
03-28-2008, 09:58
This is the kind of trip I typically do. One night out in warm weather.
Here's a partial packing list from my last trip:
- Eastsport (http://www.eastsport.com)backpack from Walmart, $15 or so
- Sportsman's Guide 50F sleeping bag, $25 or $30
- Eureka Zeus Exo 2, purchased used for $64. On previous trips, I used an Ozark Trails Junior Dome Tent from Walmart, around $15, and that worked too.
- Pacific Outdoors ThermoMax Lite air pad, $35 (I think that's what it was called...)
Sure there's nicer stuff out there, but you don't have to spend a fortune to get a working setup.
Yeah I did it the other way around and now I'm hurting for volume. But I have adjusted.
Smaller volume is forced weight reduction, which is a good thing. Helps you pack smarter. This works well, if you are like me and like to bring everything except the kitchen sink.
In my case, I also had an incredible gift from heaven. A couple of years ago, my father asked me what size pack he should get my brother/hiking partner to replace his undersized pack.
I don't agree with smaller volume.
I like being able to carry a large blue foam pad inside my pack.
I also like being able just stuff things in without too much compression or fuss.
I say keep the volume up, but keep the number of items down. Keep it simple.
I organize a beginners back pack every year.
I've been told this doc I wrote is useful. Maybe it will give you some ideas?
http://www.pmags.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=19&Itemid=33
Thats a damn good article MAGS. Very comprehensive without being too long.
I think the biggest thing to avoid from my own experience was spending too much money on a pack that ended up being way too heavy too be of any really use,even in winter. If you make a mistake in clothing, tents, sleeping bags, you can usually find a use for them, backyard car camping whatever. I have found very little use for my monster pack with all the bells and whistles. So don't spend too much on a pack that is too heavy. Keep it under $100, AND keep it well under 3 pounds for 3000ci or more. The JAM2 is $100 or less for 3100ci and weighs only 20oz. Keep it under $50 and keep it well under 2 pounds for 3000ci or less. Really don't go under 2400ci unless you are already own it and are using it as a day pack and really like it. I have gotten by in summer with my day pack by carrying some stuff in front. That's an option.
desdemona
03-29-2008, 02:35
I organize a beginners back pack every year.
I've been told this doc I wrote is useful. Maybe it will give you some ideas?
http://www.pmags.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=19&Itemid=33
This is a great article. Lots of very good concrete ideas.
(Also from other people here, btw. I think I will see if REI has rental equipment as well.)
To answer another question, if it was one night and I could pick the time, I might not really want to bother with a tent. I've done under the stars, and would do tarp-- that sort of thing.
Water is going to be a big issue. We are trying to find a good place with a stream that runs in early summer.
This is my pack: http://www.rei.com/product/747525
It's 1830 cc and has compartments.
--des
Two Speed
03-29-2008, 04:06
Des, that pack ought to be fine for overnighters in mild weather. To give you an idea I can make a 2,000 CI pack work for a three day trip. My 2,000 CI pack, a Kelty Whitney Classic, does have external mesh pockets for water bottles, lash tabs on the bottom for my SMD Lunar and twin daisy chains, which is where my rain gear winds up, so some of my gear does go external. That's also for hiking in the southeast, where you need rain gear. Might not where you are, and cowboy camping may be feasible more often than it is here.
Mags can definitely offer an opinion on the different equipment that you might want to consider out west as opposed to what we usually carry here on the east coast. While I'm at it, I'm not trying to slam JAK's opinion because the world's a little different up there than it is around here. New Mexico is a whole 'nuther bag of worms. The guiding concept is your gear must be adapted to the environment you're going to hike in, not the environment I'm going to hike in.
Anyway, as long as you can get some kind of suitable insulation for sleeping (doesn't have to be a sleeping bag) along with food, water and some warm clothes you'll be just fine. I wouldn't push to far into remote areas until you get a better feel for what you're doing, just in case you're a little shy on what you need.
BTW, "sufficient water" may be different in New Mexico, too. In the southeast 2 litres is generally sufficient. If you're getting out into the desert you may want to add another litre, or double that. I really don't know.
IIRC you hike with a dog. If so, don't forget to put some goodies in for the mutt, too, either in his pack or in yours. Of course he needs water, too.
You are being diligent about checking the weather forecast and leaving an itinerary with a trusted friend or family member, aren't you?
Gonna start some severe thread drift with this one, but you might consider looking for some primitive skills classes or workshops in your area. Once you know how to find water, possibly some food and build/find shelter I think you'll be much more comfortable with this and a lot safer, too. Basically, building these sort of skills can allow you to take a more flexible attitude about gear. The more you know the less you have to carry.
Des, from what I'm seeing you're asking the right questions. Give it a shot in an area that you're comfortable in, and don't get too far from the car until you get a little experience under your belt. Once you've got a little more experience you can venture a little more, and before you know it you'll be writing books just like Jan Liteshoe. ;)
Short version: looks like you're on the right track. Always bring your common sense, trust your guts and give it Hell. We're cheering for you!
I use an older REI daypack for backpack weekends, but I don't carry a lot of stuff for luxury/comfort and I also share resources with my hubby. First time I was out, I carried a Thermarest pillow, a caribou coffee mug (to keep tea warm) and a lot of extra stuff and I looked like a pot salesman with stuff strapped all over the back of the bag!!
desdemona
03-29-2008, 22:46
Des, that pack ought to be fine for overnighters in mild weather. To give you an idea I can make a 2,000 CI pack work for a three day trip. My 2,000 CI pack, a Kelty Whitney Classic, does have external mesh pockets for water bottles, lash tabs on the bottom for my
Mags can definitely offer an opinion on the different equipment that you might want to consider out west as opposed to what we usually carry here on the east coast. While I'm at it, I'm not trying to slam JAK's opinion because the world'...
Anyway, as long as you can get some kind of suitable insulation for sleeping (doesn't have to be a sleeping bag) along with food, water and some warm clothes you'll be just fine. I wouldn't push to far into remote areas until you get a better feel for what you're doing, just in case you're a little shy on what you need.
BTW, "sufficient water" may be different in New Mexico, too. ..
IIRC you hike with a dog...
You are being diligent about checking the weather forecast and leaving an itinerary with a trusted friend or family member, aren't you?
Gonna start some severe thread drift with this one, but you might consider looking for some primitive skills classes or workshops in your area....
Des, from what I'm seeing you're asking the right questions. Give it a shot in an area that you're comfortable in...
We're cheering for you!
I'm cutting some of your excellent post to make room for response here.
Thanks for your great post and vote of confidence!! Someone else suggested REI rentals, so while there (and making out like a bandit on their worn, irregular stuff sale-- $6 for Merrill hikers, $7 for cargo pants, and $26 for very nice w-b jacket with tiny tear--- guys, if you can do this sale do it!!).
Anyway, they have stuff to rent. Good prices, I think. You can rent stoves, sleeping bags and pads, packs, and tents if we would want one.
However, my pack does have the same general features as yours, might be ok, and if not I could rent one. Not sure about "cowboy camping". A bag might be necessary, as it does tend to be cold at night.
Jak's article was a general one-- not specifically geared to any one environment, as I read it. I have lots of time, and will be looking into the whole desert thing too. (BTW, at that altitude, it looks a lot more like Virginia or something than you might think! You have big pines right next to cacti, weird.)
To clarify, we aren't looking for anything too out of the way, basically just off the main path. Probably a "used" campsite. We just want to go up, probably to about 7-8 thousand feet (it will be 6 K+ at the parking lot).
If things got rough we might be able to hike back to the car. My partner is more experienced on such things.
Water is a huge issue. You need more, and there isn't as much. OTOH, rain gear is not a huge deal. Basically you might want something. Going in May-June as we are planning, it's pretty dry. One thing we have noticed re: weather, is that the mountains are a different zipcode. Not sure how to solve that one, except to know that it *could* be colder, wetter, hotter, or... I am learning about cloud formations over the mountains too.
Classes are a good idea, if there are any.
I would never forget the dog! :) Torie always carries a small emergency roll of dog food and treats. I carry her water.
Thanks for all responses.
--des
Depends on what you mean my need. It takes a lot to kill you
desdemona
03-30-2008, 02:37
Depends on what you mean my need. It takes a lot to kill you
Gee Scott, you're a cheery one!! I wasn't expecting to die in my attempt,
:sun
even if I make many mistakes and forget everything including food and water (not too likely), one can still live a couple days.
I was kind of hoping for an idea of the way to start doing this. I did get several, ah well, more cheerful answers.
Carry on, Scott!
--des
Jaybird62
03-30-2008, 03:22
:sun
even if I make many mistakes and forget everything including food and water (not too likely), one can still live a couple days.
I was kind of hoping for an idea of the way to start doing this. I did get several, ah well, more cheerful answers.
Carry on, Scott!
--des[/quote]
I am pretty new to backpacking also. I got a decent pack,tent(actually my 1st tent was a 15 dollar wal mart tent)maps,and decided to try a section of the trail in MD for my 1st backpacking experience.....started at gathland state park in md and camped at the dahlgren campground,complete with bathrooms,showers, and a short stroll from food & drink......Very nice little walk:)
88BlueGT
03-31-2008, 21:09
My first time overnighting, I had 43lbs strapped to my back :)
Just try and not get into the big habbit of saying "what if". What if I get stung by a bee, I need this or that. What if I get really hungry, Ill just bring double in case. What if, yadda yadda yadda. The weight will add up really quick.
Two Speed
03-31-2008, 21:13
Way back in the day my brother, myself and some friends did OK with a blanket and potato each. I think we wrapped the potatoes in tin foil, but I'm not sure if we did or decided that would be a real good idea if we ever remembered to do that in the future.
Of course this was before we all got convinced that one sip of untreated water would result in green foaming death.
Simpler times, I guess.
Thanks for all the kind words. I just updated my article (http://www.pmags.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=19&Itemid=33)yesterday. Nothing major, but I did write it in originally in 2003 and it needed some tweaking.
As for West vs. East, it is usally colder and drier.
You typically need a hat/gloves/insulation (fleece, sweater, other) year round. I would suggest a warmer bag (20F) (or quilt? :D) almost the whole year for beginners esp. Others get away with a lighter bag and more clothing, but I think if you don't know your gear yet, better to er on the side of caution.
Back East, rain gear is more important and a tarp may not be the best shelter unless you really know how to set it up well. Tarp use is more forgiving in the drier West.
Water is indeed more of an issue. A *rough* rule of thumb is 1 ltr per 5 miles and 2 ltrs for dinner/water at night/getting you going inthe morning (if you dry camp).
You'll do fine. Naturally, give us a report when you get back. :)