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wakapak
03-30-2008, 10:14
Okay all, hang with me here!! I can be slow at times!!
What exactly is the deal with freezer bag cooking?? is it simplier than just cooking in your pot? Whats the pro's of it??

Lilred
03-30-2008, 10:35
no need to scrub a pot when you're finished eating.

wakapak
03-30-2008, 11:01
no need to scrub a pot when you're finished eating.

that is a plus...assuming you do scrub your pot after every use!! :eek:

other questions: what do you use for a cozy??

In the past when i've thru'd, i ate a lot of Lipton noodles, pasta, rice, and cous-cous type meals. Never got really creative either, so i got sick of the meals at times! was trying to be a little more creative this time, but only have a few weeks to get everything together, as i've decided semi-last minute to do this hike (VA-ME). Can you also do Lipton dinners in freezer bags, and add other ingredients to them to liven em up?? I'm looking at recipes online for it all, but would love any additional help!!!

Morpheus
03-30-2008, 11:05
Less "grey water" and food smell for critters around shelters/ campsites. Unless your a simmerer/ baker you only need to carry a single pot big enough to hold 3 cups. 1 1/2 - 2 cups to rehydrate meals, the rest for tea, coffee, etc.
I just eliminated 2.5 lbs. by switching from MSR Whisperlight stove, 11 oz. fuel/ bottle, and Alpine cookset (stainless) and going to MSR Pocket rocket/ Titanium kettle, 8 oz. fuel cannister.

Strategic
03-30-2008, 11:17
Freezerbag cooking is usually much simpler than cooking in your pot, both because it's no clean-up required and because you'll only need to boil water, which is easier on many (i.e., alcohol) stoves. This also generally means that you'll save fuel as well.

The real advantage of the technique is that you can cook much more complex dishes (and flavors) by using good prep. You get the kind of variety and dishes that are usually associated with expensive (and only passable) freeze-dried meals, but with ingredients that taste better. Take a look at Sarbar's website (http://www.freezerbagcooking.com/) (and her cookbook) for a good idea of what can be done this way, or pick up the Lip Smackin' Backpackin' cookbook, as both are great at this kind of cooking (though Sarbar's cozy ideas are not to be missed.) The basic idea is that you prep ahead (both at home and at resupply stops) so that you don't need to do as much for good and interesting food on the trail.

I use a great many of these techniques, though I also still cook the old fashioned way on the trail at times too. It's not a "one or the other" kind of choice, just a fine set of techniques to feed yourself better.

wakapak
03-30-2008, 11:22
Cool! Thanks all!! Im checking out freezerbagcooking.com at the moment, and there seems to be alot of great looking recipes on there!!

I am most likely going with an alcohol stove and i gotta get myself a new pot, so good to know that a smaller one will do fine if most of my meals are done this way!!

Here's to hoping i can alot of the meals prepped before i go!!!

wakapak
03-30-2008, 14:37
okay...another question...just did my first run at dehydrating some pasta, and it worked good, but how do manage to not have it break or crumble into a million pieces in your pack?? when i dehydrated it, i just layed it on the trays, but didnt lay it straight out, and since it's all curly and twisted, it seems it would crumble while being packed away....

Tinker
03-30-2008, 14:47
Pack delicate items inside your cookpot. If your stove is fragile (like a supercat, for instance), there might be something in there already.
Another thing to consider is that a wide pot is more fuel efficient with an alcohol stove than a narrow one (flames travel up the sides of narrow pots and much heat is lost to the atmosphere). I have a 1.3 liter ti pot which works well with a supercat stove, and there's plenty of room inside for storage of food items if needed. Noodles do not survive well in a food bag crammed in with other items in your pack. I mostly use Lipton (Knorr) dinners and have to be satisfied with whatever pasta comes with them. Another option would be to pack your noodles in a Nalgene screw top or other rigid container.

burger
03-30-2008, 17:06
okay...another question...just did my first run at dehydrating some pasta, and it worked good, but how do manage to not have it break or crumble into a million pieces in your pack?? when i dehydrated it, i just layed it on the trays, but didnt lay it straight out, and since it's all curly and twisted, it seems it would crumble while being packed away....

You don't really need to dehydrate pasta. I use angel hair and macaroni, and they came out just fine with 10-15 minutes of rehydration time. Yes, the pasta comes out a bit starchy, but if you use the right amount of water and sauce, you hardly notice it. And personally I'm always grateful for a few extra calories in my meal that would otherwise have been washed away.

wakapak
03-30-2008, 17:22
You don't really need to dehydrate pasta. I use angel hair and macaroni, and they came out just fine with 10-15 minutes of rehydration time. Yes, the pasta comes out a bit starchy, but if you use the right amount of water and sauce, you hardly notice it. And personally I'm always grateful for a few extra calories in my meal that would otherwise have been washed away.

Thanks!! I actually just tried it that way with angel hair pasta, and it worked great!!! Saves alot of time too, to not have to dehydrate!! Now it's just figuring out portion size really, which i know from the past will change alot out there!! I'm excited about this!! This opens up a whole lot of different meal options for me that i never thought of previously while out there!! :D

JERMM
03-30-2008, 17:28
okay...another question...just did my first run at dehydrating some pasta, and it worked good, but how do manage to not have it break or crumble into a million pieces in your pack?? when i dehydrated it, i just layed it on the trays, but didnt lay it straight out, and since it's all curly and twisted, it seems it would crumble while being packed away....


I use pasta with shapes, shells, twisted, curly... I like the way it picks up the sauce and it's easier to eat from the bag.

weary
03-30-2008, 18:11
no need to scrub a pot when you're finished eating.
In 45 years of backpacking, I can't remember scrubbing a pot on the trail. Neither have I more than occasionally used a freezer Bag for cooking, not because it doesn't work, but because it isn't needed, wastes resources, creates messy trash -- and because I have no idea what harmful chemicals may escape by pouring boiling water into plastic.

I eat all the food I cook in my pot, rinse the pot briefly, with hot or cold water, what ever is handy, and then boil water for tea, hot tang, chocolate or whatever.

I then boil a quart or two of water for use the next day. By which time my pot is clean enough to use for breakfast. And after breakfast the process is repeated, leaving my pot clean enough for soup at noon if the day is cool, or until supper when the process is repeated.

Scrubbing is reserved for hostels in town every five or six days.

Because I use a wood-burning Zip Stove, fuel is not a problem, but I used the same process when I used a Whisperlight.

Weary

Blue Jay
03-30-2008, 19:10
I have no idea what harmful chemicals may escape by pouring boiling water into plastic.


Now how could heating cheap crap plastic, which contains hundreds of chemicals known to harm you, to the an unknown temperature higher than the boiling point of water, possibly hurt you? Most people on this site love to conduct blind experiments on their health for the absolutely vital reason of not washing a pot.

shoe
03-30-2008, 21:50
I use the freezer bag cooking recipes, but use my pot.
(nothing to do with chemicals though)
Except for breakfast. I do my cooking in the bags on those.

There are some really great recipes in the cookbook. I highly recommend ordering it.

take-a-knee
03-30-2008, 22:01
I use the freezer bag cooking recipes, but use my pot.
(nothing to do with chemicals though)
Except for breakfast. I do my cooking in the bags on those.

There are some really great recipes in the cookbook. I highly recommend ordering it.
You should make yourself a cozy for your pot if you haven't already. I made one from 1/4in evazote for the sides and bottom and use a watch cap for a roof. Boiling water stays hot for over an hour in that cozy.

desdemona
03-30-2008, 23:20
Now how could heating cheap crap plastic, which contains hundreds of chemicals known to harm you, to the an unknown temperature higher than the boiling point of water, possibly hurt you? Most people on this site love to conduct blind experiments on their health for the absolutely vital reason of not washing a pot.


It probably isn't great for you. I wouldn't do it on a daily basis, but unless these folks are doing repetitive thru-hikes I doubt it is going to hurt anybody.

BTW, it is very similar (minus the fancy equipment) to immersion cooking.
To get the circulation effect, you can always stir with a wooden spoon. :)
Immersion circulator prices:

http://www.techneusa.com/ShoppingCart/sous_vide_products.asp

--des

sarbar
03-31-2008, 13:47
For those worried about plastics, there are plenty of things to read online.

One thing to note: the brand name bags are made in the US and not in China. The bags are food grade plastics as well, designed to be used in microwaves, You are not boiling in them either.

It is nearly impossible to avoid plastic when talking food these days. Think how many things are prepared in plastic in your microwave......or when eating out.

Btw, on the dried pasta...it is tougher than it appears for standing up to pack abuse :)

Blue Jay
03-31-2008, 14:55
The bags are food grade plastics as well, designed to be used in microwaves, You are not boiling in them either.

It is nearly impossible to avoid plastic when talking food these days.

Food grade plastic is a contradiction on terms. Designed by those who want to sell you anything and don't give a rat's@@@ if there is a long term issue. You are also conducting science experiments on your self when you microwave food in plastic. Actually it is very possible to avoid most plastic compounds in your food. It is after all your FOOD. Granted there is no where to hide from trace plastic compounds, therefore it just might be wise to limit intake when you can.

sarbar
03-31-2008, 15:12
The two big players of food grade plastics (G. and Z.) DO have extensive testing done on their plastics they sell, from their micro wrap, containers and bags. For instance people often claim plastic wrap and bags have Dioxin in them and that is NOT true.

Appalachian Tater
03-31-2008, 15:27
I was enthralled with the idea of cooking in freezer bags, but when I researched it, the manufacturers of the bags definitely recommend against boiling them. (The issue of pouring boiling water into them is not specifically addressed.) People should be aware there is no real information or scientific studies about using them for freezer bag cooking. There are plastic bags that have been declared "safe" for boiling, but freezer bags have not been.

http://camping.about.com/od/campingrecipes/a/ziplocbaggies.htm

The article on about.com mentions the possibility of the plastic interacting with fat in the food. Anyone who has stored spaghetti sauce in plastic only to have the container permanently stained knows that food and plastic may interact.

I store food in plastic containers at home, but I do not heat food in them.

JAK
03-31-2008, 15:39
Usually I don't like to prep my food ahead. I like to pack stuff bulk and make last minute food preparation choices. Gives me more to do out there, which is important when you hike solo. Also, if I finally find a recipe I can prepare half decent, I can change it. ;)

Morpheus
03-31-2008, 16:06
What do you think about using oven bags. They're obviously designed for it. I'll be using them as a sleeve inside the freezer bag for added puncture resistance, but avoiding direct food/freezer bag contact.
Generally speaking, the softer the plastic, the more plasticizers are vaporized with heating. Styrofoam being absolutely horrible.
Where can you buy cozys?

oops56
03-31-2008, 16:22
Try this or just make square one for the bags duck tape together then in hat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2qFKAXivf0

weary
03-31-2008, 16:46
I was enthralled with the idea of cooking in freezer bags, but when I researched it, the manufacturers of the bags definitely recommend against boiling them. (The issue of pouring boiling water into them is not specifically addressed.) People should be aware there is no real information or scientific studies about using them for freezer bag cooking. There are plastic bags that have been declared "safe" for boiling, but freezer bags have not been.

http://camping.about.com/od/campingrecipes/a/ziplocbaggies.htm

The article on about.com mentions the possibility of the plastic interacting with fat in the food. Anyone who has stored spaghetti sauce in plastic only to have the container permanently stained knows that food and plastic may interact.

I store food in plastic containers at home, but I do not heat food in them.
I use a lot of freezer bags for preserving vegetables from my garden. All the directions say to cool the food before placing it in the bags. The usual practice is to run cold water through the vegetables for twice the time used in blanching, which reduces the food back to room temperature or lower.

Weary

Morpheus
03-31-2008, 16:46
Thanks oops. Looks very easy!

lonehiker
03-31-2008, 16:48
You cool the food so that you stop the cooking process. Has nothing to do with the freezer-bag.

envirodiver
03-31-2008, 17:33
I don't quite understand the way that people respond to these freezer bag cooking questions sometimes.

People say that it is a waste of resources/makes more trash. True, but it reduces that amount of fuel used to cook the meal so it would seem to be a trade-off. I don't have the facts regarding the oil used to produce the bags vs. per oz. of fuel.

People loudly speculate about the ill effects regarding health that may occur from putting boiling water in a plastic freezer bag, yet they will cook in a pot, not wash it and walk around essentially carrying a petri dish, when we all know that when food spoils that it grows bacteria and bacteria toxins can make us sick. You may boil it the next day and then consume the water from that boiling/cleaning, but while it may kill the bacteria it may not rid the pot of the toxins from the bacteria. Then wash it once per week, gross.

Why not do both, when the mood suits or the food that you can procure dictates the method.

NICKTHEGREEK
03-31-2008, 17:38
I was enthralled with the idea of cooking in freezer bags, but when I researched it, the manufacturers of the bags definitely recommend against boiling them. (The issue of pouring boiling water into them is not specifically addressed.) People should be aware there is no real information or scientific studies about using them for freezer bag cooking. There are plastic bags that have been declared "safe" for boiling, but freezer bags have not been.

http://camping.about.com/od/campingrecipes/a/ziplocbaggies.htm

The article on about.com mentions the possibility of the plastic interacting with fat in the food. Anyone who has stored spaghetti sauce in plastic only to have the container permanently stained knows that food and plastic may interact.

I store food in plastic containers at home, but I do not heat food in them.

Well said

jlb2012
03-31-2008, 18:42
advantages to FBC:
1. easy cleanup - lick spoon and throw bag into campfire or use to store other trash
2. no stirring the food while cooking - stir once after putting in boiling water, close cozy then go do something else while food cooks
3. less water used - the closed or mostly closed bag while in cozy means less water loss while cooking - useful for dry campsites - also no water needed for cleanup
4. food does not stick to the bottom of the pot nor burn
5. can use a smaller lighter pot for boiling the water
6. technique generally works well with light weight alcohol stoves thus saving weight

Skidsteer
03-31-2008, 19:22
I was enthralled with the idea of cooking in freezer bags, but when I researched it, the manufacturers of the bags definitely recommend against boiling them. (The issue of pouring boiling water into them is not specifically addressed.)

Most Freezer baggers don't boil their bags or pour boiling water in them.

The water ceases boiling when it is removed from the stove.

weary
03-31-2008, 19:27
You cool the food so that you stop the cooking process. Has nothing to do with the freezer-bag.
So? The fact is that no one has studied to my knowledge the dangers of pouring boiling water into a freezer bag. A number of people have studied putting boiling water into similar plastics, with mixed results. I just choose not to cook in freezer bags -- especially since the advantage over cooking in a pot is so trivial.

And yes, Skids... the water stops boiling when you take a pot off the stove and pour it into a Freezer bag. Do you have evidence than 211 degree impregnated plastic is less potentially dangerous than 212 degree impregnated plastic?

Weary

Skidsteer
03-31-2008, 19:28
So? The fact is that no one has studied to my knowledge the dangers of pouring boiling water into a freezer bag. A number of people have studied putting boiling water into similar plastics, with mixed results. I just choose not to cook in freezer bags -- especially since the advantage over cooking in a pot is so trivial.

Weary

Most Freezer baggers don't boil their bags or pour boiling water in them.

The water ceases boiling when it is removed from the stove.

Appalachian Tater
03-31-2008, 19:29
It's the temperature that's important. Boiling occurs at different temperatures depending on other variables. Boiling is just shorthand for "very hot".

Skidsteer
03-31-2008, 19:34
It's the temperature that's important. Boiling occurs at different temperatures depending on other variables. Boiling is just shorthand for "very hot".

Good. Microwaves are "very hot".

Hooch
03-31-2008, 19:37
I use freezer bag style cooking for breakfast only thus far and have had no problems with it at all. I'd like to buy a food dehydrator and start doing my dinner in freezer bags as well. As for lunch, I'll keep grazing. Snacks throughout the day seem to work for me.

weary
03-31-2008, 19:39
Good. Microwaves are "very hot".
Not necessarily! It depends on how you use them, and for what.

Appalachian Tater
03-31-2008, 19:44
Good. Microwaves are "very hot".Even some plastics that can be used in microwaves, such as plastic wrap or film, should not actually touch the food.

There are certain plastics that have been tested and certified as safe for heating food in various circumstances. Freezer bags have not been tested for freezer bag cooking by pouring boiling water in them. I don't know whether there is a hazard or not, but it is something to consider.

http://www.fda.gov/FDAC/features/2002/602_plastic.html

sarbar
03-31-2008, 19:46
As I point out....one doesn't have to use freezer bags. They can use oven bags, crock pot liner bags, Food Vac bags, etc. Food vac bags for instance are rated to be submerged into boiling water for extended periods of time. They are not cheap though.

You can cook in your pan. You can eat food cold and raw.

But don't say that the food is boiled in the bags - it isn't. You add water to your meal and let it sit in whatever you use as a cozy for 5-15 minutes, depending on what you are making.

Appalachian Tater
03-31-2008, 19:47
But don't say that the food is boiled in the bags - it isn't.No one has said that. I agree that it would be better to use plastic that is designed to be boiled.

sarbar
03-31-2008, 19:50
No one has said that. I agree that it would be better to use plastic that is designed to be boiled.
Actually it was said way up above ;) It is a common misconception that people have though....due to people wondering how the meal "cooks". Once you explain it...it is one of those "oh I get it!" moments.

Skidsteer
03-31-2008, 19:53
But don't say that the food is boiled in the bags - it isn't.


No one has said that. I agree that it would be better to use plastic that is designed to be boiled.

You said that.


I was enthralled with the idea of cooking in freezer bags, but when I researched it, the manufacturers of the bags definitely recommend against boiling them. (The issue of pouring boiling water into them is not specifically addressed.) People should be aware there is no real information or scientific studies about using them for freezer bag cooking. There are plastic bags that have been declared "safe" for boiling, but freezer bags have not been.

One more time. Freezer bag cooking is not pouring boiling water in a freezer bag.

oops56
03-31-2008, 20:05
All i got to say turn off the tv off the computer off the radio and no newspaper.when great great grand ma & pa cooked in cast iron they said it was bad also just do it its takes years day in day out to be bad for little that we do it no worries about it:p:p

Appalachian Tater
03-31-2008, 20:11
You said that.
No, I didn't, please quote me where I said that the food is boiled in the bag.


One more time. Freezer bag cooking is not pouring boiling water in a freezer bag.Skidsteer, I'm not clear what your problem is here with the terminology. If you go to www.freezerbagcooking.com, almost every recipe says something like "Add the chicken and its liquid into the freezer bag, and 1 1/4 cups boiling water." or "Add 1 cup boiling water and stir very well. Put in a cozy for 10 minutes, stir again and add salsa."

Hooch
03-31-2008, 20:19
Skidsteer, I'm not clear what your problem is here with the terminology. If you go to www.freezerbagcooking.com (http://www.freezerbagcooking.com), almost every recipe says something like "Add the chicken and its liquid into the freezer bag, and 1 1/4 cups boiling water." or "Add 1 cup boiling water and stir very well. Put in a cozy for 10 minutes, stir again and add salsa."


The water ceases boiling when it is removed from the stove. Seems Skids' explanation makes sense to me. Or at least that's what happens when I remove boiling water from its heat source.

Appalachian Tater
03-31-2008, 20:28
Seems Skids' explanation makes sense to me. Or at least that's what happens when I remove boiling water from its heat source.Yeah, we already established that. You take boiling water and you pour it in the bag. It's not boiling when it gets there.

But it's still called "pouring boiling water into the bag".

At 4000 feet, water boils at about 205 deg. F. So if you pour boiling water into a bag at sea level it's probably still hotter than it would be boiling in the pot on top of many mountains along the A.T.

Regardless, it's still very hot water touching plastic that may or may not be safe in the presence of that much heat. So, sarbar's suggestion that you can use plastic that is tested and certified to be safe in contact with very hot water and food instead of plastic that isn't, is very good advice.

GGS2
03-31-2008, 20:35
Good. Microwaves are "very hot".

Nope. Microwaves have no conventional temperature, as they are essentially monochromatic electromagnetic radiation. That is, they are the output of a magnetron oscillator. They heat polar molecules by imparting to them a magnetic flip at the frequency of the radiation, which heats the material.

Turn off the oven too soon and the food will not even be warm. Leave it on too long and you will end up with carbon. A matter of time and power rate.

Philippe
03-31-2008, 20:38
I'm an amateur winemaker. We often do the primary fermentation in a 5-7 gallon plastic bucket. It's important to use a food-grade bucket. If you don't, the primary flavor will be plastic. Many mistakes can be corrected with wine errors, but that's not one of them. The plastic flavor must come from somewhere, probably leached from the bucket. I would think all American made freezer bags would be food-grade, what with their being made to store food. I don't freezer-bag cook. If I were offered something good, cooked that way that way, I's eat it. I probably wouldn't eat things cooked that way everyday for the rest of my life. I doubt you all start dropping like flies in 20 years freezer-bag suppers. Chomp on.

mudhead
03-31-2008, 20:43
Maybe that's why that blueberry wine in the 20-30 gallon plastic garbage can wasn't the greatest.

I bought a new can, too.

Ah, to be young and dumb again.

Skidsteer
03-31-2008, 20:43
Yeah, we already established that. You take boiling water and you pour it in the bag. It's not boiling when it gets there.

But it's still called "pouring boiling water into the bag".

At 4000 feet, water boils at about 205 deg. F. So if you pour boiling water into a bag at sea level it's probably still hotter than it would be boiling in the pot on top of many mountains along the A.T.

Regardless, it's still very hot water touching plastic that may or may not be safe in the presence of that much heat. So, sarbar's suggestion that you can use plastic that is tested and certified to be safe in contact with very hot water and food instead of plastic that isn't, is very good advice.

Semantics.

Your objection seems to be the boiling part. I was pointing out that the water is not boiling.

Brand name freezer bags are microwave safe according to the manufacturers:

http://www.cookingforengineers.com/article/99/Microwave-Safe-Containers

Microwave safe plastics are food grade plastics (which do not leach plasticizers) that are known to be able to withstand higher than normal temperatures. Plastics that are not microwave safe may leach harmful substances when heated in a microwave oven. (There was an internet e-mail scare/hoax that was passed around claiming the USDA or FDA and independent researchers showed that dioxin (a plasticizer) leached out of plastic wrap onto food being microwaved. This is untrue since all microwave safe plastics are dioxin free. Saran (http://www.saranbrand.com/faq.asp) and Ziploc (http://www.ziploc.com/) both maintain that their product lines are completely plasticizer free. The temperatures necessary to create dioxin (around 1500°F) are beyond the normal operating conditions of household and commercial microwave ovens.)

The question is what is a higher than normal temperature?

In the meantime I'm confident, considering my mis-spent youth and current indiscretions, that eating food out of a plastic bag is the least of my worries.

Philippe
03-31-2008, 20:50
Maybe that's why that blueberry wine in the 20-30 gallon plastic garbage can wasn't the greatest.

I bought a new can, too.

Ah, to be young and dumb again.

Almost surely. That's a real pity. Give it a year though. There are other things that could make it taste odd, that will round out if given time. Garbage cans are prime culprets, however. Make smaller batches and line the bucket with the biggest roasting bag you can find. Good luck with this years fruit.

Appalachian Tater
03-31-2008, 20:55
6. Can Ziploc Brand bags be used in the microwave?

ZiplocŪ Brand Sandwich Bags and Snack Bags should not be used in the microwave because they are too thin. ZiplocŪ Brand Storage Bags may be used for microwave reheating; ZiplocŪ Brand Freezer Bags may be used for microwave reheating and defrosting. When defrosting or reheating, always open the zipper one inch to vent. Be careful when reheating foods that are high in fat or sugar content (bacon, pastries), because these foods reheat very quickly and may exceed the softening point of the bags.

ZiplocŪ Brand Zip ‘n Steam™ bags are specially designed for microwave steam cooking. They are made of two layers of plastic laminated together that are formulated to stand up to the high temperatures of cooking in the microwave, so they will not get soft and flimsy. When pressure builds up in the bags, specially designed vents allow it to escape. Always allow the bag to stand for one minute before handling. When opening, hold the top of the bag, as the blue area above the zipper remains fairly cool to the touch, and open the bag away from your body to allow the hot steam to escape.

7. Can I boil in Ziploc Brand bags?
No. ZiplocŪ Brand bags are not designed to withstand the extreme heat of boiling.

From Ziploc FAQs at http://www.ziploc.com/?p=b1

It is worrisome enough that I would use the safer alternatives that are available. Certainly anyone should decide for themselves what to do with the available information.

wakapak
03-31-2008, 20:57
Wow...i'm starting to think I should have put this in the Straightfoward forum....

Skidsteer
03-31-2008, 21:02
Wow...i'm starting to think I should have put this in the Straightfoward forum....

Why?

There's some good discussion here. Tater and I aren't mad at each other.


6. Can Ziploc Brand bags be used in the microwave?

ZiplocŪ Brand Sandwich Bags and Snack Bags should not be used in the microwave because they are too thin. ZiplocŪ Brand Storage Bags may be used for microwave reheating; ZiplocŪ Brand Freezer Bags may be used for microwave reheating and defrosting. When defrosting or reheating, always open the zipper one inch to vent. Be careful when reheating foods that are high in fat or sugar content (bacon, pastries), because these foods reheat very quickly and may exceed the softening point of the bags.

ZiplocŪ Brand Zip ‘n Steam™ bags are specially designed for microwave steam cooking. They are made of two layers of plastic laminated together that are formulated to stand up to the high temperatures of cooking in the microwave, so they will not get soft and flimsy. When pressure builds up in the bags, specially designed vents allow it to escape. Always allow the bag to stand for one minute before handling. When opening, hold the top of the bag, as the blue area above the zipper remains fairly cool to the touch, and open the bag away from your body to allow the hot steam to escape.

7. Can I boil in Ziploc Brand bags?
No. ZiplocŪ Brand bags are not designed to withstand the extreme heat of boiling.

From Ziploc FAQs at http://www.ziploc.com/?p=b1

It is worrisome enough that I would use the safer alternatives that are available. Certainly anyone should decide for themselves what to do with the available information.

Seems like the admonition to use the Zip 'n Steam bags is due to a scalding concern, not a leaching one.

Appalachian Tater
03-31-2008, 21:05
Why?

There's some good discussion here. Tater and I aren't mad at each other.



Seems like the admonition to use the Zip 'n Steam bags is due to a scalding concern, not a leaching one.Scalding and melting! Have you ever had a good wallop of melted plastic land on your skin? Yes, I know it's not actually still boiling, but it still hurts.

Skidsteer
03-31-2008, 21:07
Scalding and melting! Have you ever had a good wallop of melted plastic land on your skin? Yes, I know it's not actually still boiling, but it still hurts.

Yes, but not from freezer bag cooking.

Left a scar.

Skidsteer
03-31-2008, 21:18
Wow...i'm starting to think I should have put this in the Straightfoward forum....


Why?

There's some good discussion here. Tater and I aren't mad at each other.

Ohhhh....After re-reading the original post, I see your point. ;)

Appalachian Tater
03-31-2008, 21:21
I was just thinking about the fact that if you can smell something, molecules are being released and reaching your nose, and those plastic bags smell like plastic.

weary
03-31-2008, 21:21
.....In the meantime I'm confident, considering my mis-spent youth and current indiscretions, that eating food out of a plastic bag is the least of my worries.
Very true. But realistally, the net extra effort to cook in a pot is so minor, that I'm not sure it's worth while. YMMV.

I've reached an age where I figure long term dangers are not worth bothering about, any more. But truly, the advantages of cooking in a plastic bag are so minimal, and the temptation to leave the soiled bag in a shelter fireplace is so tempting and so damaging to the campsite and the environment, that I've chosen not to do it. If you choose to do so, and you are responsible about the dangers to the earth, carry your dirty bag out with you. Resist the temptation to leave it at a shelter fire place. Though the danger of cooking in a plastic bag is unknown, which is why the manufacturer advises against the practice, the danger to the environment from burning plastic in temperatures typically achieved in a shelter fireplace is indisputable.

Weary

Skidsteer
03-31-2008, 21:33
I was just thinking about the fact that if you can smell something, molecules are being released and reaching your nose, and those plastic bags smell like plastic.

I've never smelled anything but food from a freezer bag, however I did smell my skin burning when another kid from my track team threw a milk jug in the fire during a litter clean up and a piece of it landed on my hand. :eek:


Very true. But realistally, the net extra effort to cook in a pot is so minor, that I'm not sure it's worth while. YMMV.

I've reached an age where I figure long term dangers are not worth bothering about, any more. But truly, the advantages of cooking in a plastic bag are so minimal, and the temptation to leave the soiled bag in a shelter fireplace is so tempting and so damaging to the campsite and the environment, that I've chosen not to do it. If you choose to do so, and you are responsible about the dangers to the earth, carry your dirty bag out with you. Resist the temptation to leave it at a shelter fire place. Though the danger of cooking in a plastic bag is unknown, which is why the manufacturer advises against the practice, the danger to the environment from burning plastic in temperatures typically achieved in a shelter fireplace is indisputable.

Weary

Don't get me wrong.

If I start to grow breasts, I'm quitting freezer bag cooking straight away.

wakapak
03-31-2008, 21:37
Ohhhh....After re-reading the original post, I see your point. ;)


Don't get me wrong, there's definitely some good discussion going on here, just never thought it would take this direction!! ;)

Carry on though! :D

and if you have any favorite recipes, whether you cook it in a bag or pot, feel free on sharing!!! :p

Appalachian Tater
03-31-2008, 21:43
Okay, here's my favorite recipe:

1 package cornbread stuffing mix
1 foil-pack chicken
dried cranberries

Carefully pour hot water into the stuffing envelope, while it is sitting on a surface, not in your hand. Fold over the top and knead it a little to mix. Let it sit a couple of minutes, stir it up good, dump in the chicken and cranberries.

Yes, I know, the bag the stuffing comes in is much worse than a freezer bag since it's not designed for any heat at all.

Skidsteer
03-31-2008, 21:46
Don't get me wrong, there's definitely some good discussion going on here, just never thought it would take this direction!! ;)

Carry on though! :D

and if you have any favorite recipes, whether you cook it in a bag or pot, feel free on sharing!!! :p

My favorite staple is to put the leftovers from a spaghetti dinner(I typically use whole wheat spaghetti)with the noodles and sauce already mixed together, along with a lot of parmesan cheese, directly in the dehydrator after supper.

I set it to 145-155 F. depending on the meat content and the next morning it's ready to bag and freeze.

On occasion I mix rinsed, cooked kidney beans in and call it 'Chili Spaghetti'.

It's easy to do the same thing with just about any leftover meal you can think of.

Skidsteer
03-31-2008, 21:47
Okay, here's my favorite recipe:

1 package cornbread stuffing mix
1 foil-pack chicken
dried cranberries

Carefully pour hot water into the stuffing envelope, while it is sitting on a surface, not in your hand. Fold over the top and knead it a little to mix. Let it sit a couple of minutes, stir it up good, dump in the chicken and cranberries.

Yes, I know, the bag the stuffing comes in is much worse than a freezer bag since it's not designed for any heat at all.

Hypocrite. :D

Sounds good, though.

Hooch
03-31-2008, 21:50
Don't get me wrong, there's definitely some good discussion going on here, just never thought it would take this direction!! ;)

Carry on though! :D

and if you have any favorite recipes, whether you cook it in a bag or pot, feel free on sharing!!! :pDried rotini pasta, peas, carrots, corn, onions, peppers, cheese powder and a pack of foil lump crab. Yum!

wakapak
03-31-2008, 21:54
Yummmmmmmmmy!!!! You all ROCK!!! :D They all sound good!!!

I'm starting to get hungry now.......:p

weary
03-31-2008, 21:56
....If I start to grow breasts, I'm quitting freezer bag cooking straight away.
I'm sure you believe that. But I've know a number of men over the years who grew breasts and kept right on smoking marijuana.

Weary

envirodiver
04-01-2008, 01:12
Very true. But realistally, the net extra effort to cook in a pot is so minor, that I'm not sure it's worth while. YMMV.

I've reached an age where I figure long term dangers are not worth bothering about, any more. But truly, the advantages of cooking in a plastic bag are so minimal, and the temptation to leave the soiled bag in a shelter fireplace is so tempting and so damaging to the campsite and the environment, that I've chosen not to do it. If you choose to do so, and you are responsible about the dangers to the earth, carry your dirty bag out with you. Resist the temptation to leave it at a shelter fire place. Though the danger of cooking in a plastic bag is unknown, which is why the manufacturer advises against the practice, the danger to the environment from burning plastic in temperatures typically achieved in a shelter fireplace is indisputable.
Weary

I find a considerable difference, especially in a dry campsite, since there is no clean-up needed to avoid bacterial infection. Of course I don't end up at a shelter every night so that may be different. Are you now baseing your strong position against, because some people leave the freezer bags in a fireplace"?

envirodiver
04-01-2008, 01:13
Okay, here's my favorite recipe:

1 package cornbread stuffing mix
1 foil-pack chicken
dried cranberries

Carefully pour hot water into the stuffing envelope, while it is sitting on a surface, not in your hand. Fold over the top and knead it a little to mix. Let it sit a couple of minutes, stir it up good, dump in the chicken and cranberries.

Yes, I know, the bag the stuffing comes in is much worse than a freezer bag since it's not designed for any heat at all.

That's good stuff. I've made the same meal numerous times.

envirodiver
04-01-2008, 01:14
I'm sure you believe that. But I've know a number of men over the years who grew breasts and kept right on smoking marijuana.

Weary

You are kidding right? I hope so, cause I've yet to meet anyone who believed the movie "Reefer madness".

walkin' wally
04-01-2008, 08:39
Interesting thread

Earlier someone said that some plastic containers get a red stain from tomato sauce when used in a microwave. It's true, some, but not all, of my containers have that stain. But are we talking about the same temps here?

Microwaves seem to get a lot hotter than boiling water in a freezer bag.

Has anyone noticed a plastic odor from freezer bag cooking? Or a noticable softening or degrading of the plastic?

jlb2012
04-01-2008, 10:11
plastic odor - no
softening - yes - note however I use very cheap sandwich bags for my cooking - this only works because the cozy I use supports the bags and I pour the hot water in after the bag is in the cozy - cozy also holds the bag open and upright without use of hands thus allowing both hands to hold the pot for pouring

envirodiver
04-01-2008, 10:38
I've never noticed a plastic odor or taste. I do prepare fairly spicy types of meals so that would possibly overwhelm a slight odor. Softening, yes melting no.

Appalachian Tater
04-01-2008, 14:11
I just went to double-check and I can definitely smell my Glad Freezer bags as well as a bag full of plastic grocery bags. I am sensitive to certain odors including petrochemicals.

Mzee
04-03-2008, 13:51
...
People say that it is a waste of resources/makes more trash. True, but it reduces that amount of fuel used to cook the meal so it would seem to be a trade-off. I don't have the facts regarding the oil used to produce the bags vs. per oz. of fuel. ...

Just curious... Why do people think FBC creates more trash? If I transport my food in a plastic bag and cook it in a pot, I've used a plastic bag. If I transport my food in a plastic bag and hydrate / cook it in the plastic bag, I've used a plastic bag.

In my way of thinking, I haven't generated more trash with FBC. I suppose one could save and reuse the bags when cooking in a pot, but those who really do that are probably few and far between.

But either way, please pack the bags out. Don't burn them in the fire. That probably releases more toxins and carcinogens into the atmosphere than FBC.

mark28
04-07-2008, 14:19
this is a pretty decent way to prepare a meal , however be sure to try it out several times before hiking & eat the entire meal too!
i didn't do this & found out to my dismay that i couldn't stand the strong plastic taste given to the food by pouring boiling water in a plastic zip lock freezer bag.
also... it's very easy to make a cozy for the freezer bags , just use a strong glue to hold bubble wrap or foam sheeting into a flat bottomed bag a little larger than the freezer bag filled with food.
good luck !
mk