View Full Version : disappointed
in TNF...
years ago i used to love their gear and clothes. seems like lately all they have been putting out is junk (save for their fleeces). all i seem to be reading about them lately is negative/negative/negative. makes me a sad panda. wonder who's going to get my money now instead :( it almost is as if they hit a certain market (IE rich college kids) and have turned into abercrombie and fitch, no longer making quality but making money on their name... anyway, just needed to say this.
guess i'm going to be checking out merrel's and vasque's for my trail runners i'm going to need midway through this season, when my 2 year old xrc's die :(
HikerRanky
03-30-2008, 23:22
TNF has definitely moved away from building high quality gear, and has gone to mass production.... Ownership changes several years ago, and it went downhill from there.
I recently replaced some old TNF boots with some Keen Voyageur Mids..... I really like them... Very comfortable, and plenty of room so that as your feet swell over the distance, you can still fit in them...
Price was about $100 bucks, but in my opinion they are worth about $150 bucks.... Very comfortable!!!
Chef2000
03-31-2008, 06:33
Um what or who is TNF?
walkin' wally
03-31-2008, 06:38
Um what or who is TNF?
The North Face
TNF and Columbia have followed similar paths, in both marketing and quality. Today's HS and college kids don't feel accepted unless they are wearing something with TNF logo on it. But then, my daughter's boyfriend bought her one and the wife liked it so much I wound up getting her one! Like it or not, most of us are victims of marketing! :eek:
As hard as it is to believe this; I have tried on every low cut hiking shoe at three different outfitters and TNF fits me best. It is the only TNF item that I will buy.
I have a pair of POS L & R zip TNF 20* Blaze bags that start getting cold ~32-35*.
Egads
I think the problem that gear and clothing manufacturers have, perhaps all manufacturers, is that if you make truly great purely functional and durable stuff you will run yourself out of business. Yeah it takes longer to find the good stuff, but once you've got it, your good for awhile and shouldn't have to keep shopping. We all need to live more and shop less, which is what hiking is really supposed to be about.
minnesotasmith
03-31-2008, 07:24
I'm satisfied with Dunham. They got bought out by New Balance something like 5 years ago, which resulted in them carrying seriously WIDE sizes (like up to 6E). I wore them all the way through my 2006 thru.
The only issue I had with them is that the lowtops blew out inner heels prematurely some of the time. OTOH, the midtops never had that issue.
I continue to buy their TRs, and would use them for another thru.
FFTorched
03-31-2008, 07:29
I bought a pair of Vasque trail running shoes from Gander Mtn. and love them. Comfortable and they've head up for several months of daily running and sometimes just casual wear.
I'm satisfied with Dunham. They got bought out by New Balance something like 5 years ago, which resulted in them carrying seriously WIDE sizes (like up to 6E). I wore them all the way through my 2006 thru.
The only issue I had with them is that the lowtops blew out inner heels prematurely some of the time. OTOH, the midtops never had that issue.
I continue to buy their TRs, and would use them for another thru.I gotta agree with MS about Dunham. When I bought a new pair of hiking boots last year, I must have tried on at least a dozen pairs. The problem, like my previous boots, is that they were all too narrow. I happened into the New Balance Store in town and stumbled across Dunham boots while I was there. I now wear Dunham Terra Stryder Mid's and my feet couldn't be happier. I just got off a weekend at Red River Gorge here in Kentucky, my feet are still dry, comfortable and blister free. I like the idea that a boot maker actually makes boots to fit someome who doesn't have so-called average width feet. Big thumbs up to Dunham, I'd recommend them to about anyone.
superman
03-31-2008, 08:44
Um what or who is TNF?
LOL, I'm glad you asked. I thought it was another one of those computer shorthand things that I struggle with.
wilconow
03-31-2008, 09:48
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilderness_chic
FFTorched
03-31-2008, 12:30
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilderness_chic
I'm glad you found that, that's a great article and so true. I always argue with people who by nothing but TNF. I tell them it's just a preppy college kid brand now. Not an outdoor thing anymore.
spittinpigeon
03-31-2008, 13:05
I'm glad you found that, that's a great article and so true. I always argue with people who by nothing but TNF. I tell them it's just a preppy college kid brand now. Not an outdoor thing anymore.
After a while I had to stop trying to explain it to the clueless. When I'm mingling at a party and someone walks up wearing TNF, I just let out a little sigh and go into the bathroom to cry.
i just got myself back to school and i go to a yuppy little private college in annville. i swear 90% of the girls there have TNF fleeces on, and uggs, and probably have never even THOUGHT about spending a night outside in their lives...
envirodiver
03-31-2008, 13:40
I agree that TNF does not have the hardcore gear that it used to. Remember back in the day, when TNF was THE hardcore equipment supplier. If you saw a documentary of extreme mountaineering, etc. You saw TNF gear.
Now they have become a clothing 1st manufacturer. The girls, particularly High school and college age come into the store and only want to know where the TNF stuff is...nothing else. having said all of that, they do still make good outdoor clothing, I like a bunch of the stuff that they put itno the store.
envirodiver
03-31-2008, 13:42
Those uggs have got to be the uggliest shoes to come along since Crocs. I can't believe that these girls don't realize how silly they look with those horrid boots on with short skirts or shorts.
All the clothing manufacturers make items now that "fashion" with small core of more utilitarian items that outdoor enthusiasts use.
Some (TNF) make almost all their money on fashion items that are not really meant for crag or trail.
Others (e.g. Patagonia) have a fair amount of fashion but a lot of items that are still very well made. My Patagucci fleece still looks almost new 7 yrs laterr..and I bought it for $4 in a thrift store to boot!
Then there are some companies who don't really market as "fashion", but somehow seem to be worn as a fashion accessory. (Montbell here in Boulder for example).
Trail shoes are often wore as casual shoes, too.
Some of us may scoff...but it is what makes the money for manufacturers and allows them to make the gear and clothing that only a small segment of people would actually use.
Sure, I think it is funny to see $300 TNF down coat worn by a Frat Boy/Soriority girl as they drive their 4 dr Jeep (that will never go on a dirt road, much less off trail)..but it really doesn't matter.
Just buy what you use, and let the rest subsidize our gear. ;)
i agree mags, but what i'm saying is that i used to see TNF label and knew that was some good equiptment. any quick google "TNF _____ review" will show 2 stars by 10 people all saying "crappy material, stitches pulled, etc"... just is disappointing is all. i think i'll give marmot a go for clothes, and will have to try on the vasques and merrels for shoes.
ps. i gotta talk to jak about wool socks
Blissful
03-31-2008, 14:34
Their hiking boots and trail runners stink. Both my son and dh got some and they split after a few weeks. Also have heard their sleeping bags aren't good either. TNF is the yuppy brand for the media, etc., IMO.
Blissful
03-31-2008, 14:35
I love Marmot. :)
spittinpigeon
03-31-2008, 14:41
All the clothing manufacturers make items now that "fashion" with small core of more utilitarian items that outdoor enthusiasts use.
Some (TNF) make almost all their money on fashion items that are not really meant for crag or trail.
Others (e.g. Patagonia) have a fair amount of fashion but a lot of items that are still very well made. My Patagucci fleece still looks almost new 7 yrs laterr..and I bought it for $4 in a thrift store to boot!
Then there are some companies who don't really market as "fashion", but somehow seem to be worn as a fashion accessory. (Montbell here in Boulder for example).
Trail shoes are often wore as casual shoes, too.
Some of us may scoff...but it is what makes the money for manufacturers and allows them to make the gear and clothing that only a small segment of people would actually use.
Sure, I think it is funny to see $300 TNF down coat worn by a Frat Boy/Soriority girl as they drive their 4 dr Jeep (that will never go on a dirt road, much less off trail)..but it really doesn't matter.
Just buy what you use, and let the rest subsidize our gear. ;)
Those are good points, but tarptent and ULA seem to be doing alright.
Those are good points, but tarptent and ULA seem to be doing alright.
They are very small GEAR manufacturers whos sell to a very specific group (long distance hikers mainly).
A better analogy may be the small manufacturers that sell specifically to cavers (http://www.swaygogear.com/), windsurfers, etc. Don't see to many people toting around caving gear as fashion...or thru-hiking gear as well.
I see that with lots of others too, TNF, Columbia... have gone from functional to fashionable. Im sure this is true not only with hiking but many other realms also.
Anyone else old enough to remember when Eddie Bauer sold gear kits? THey'd package stuff like rip-stop, a pattern, goosedown, etc and you sew your own sleeping bag and stuff?
The NF Cat's Meow sleeping bag is still a great choice for a light-weight synthetic bag, but I agree about the downward trend in general of TNF products.
spittinpigeon
03-31-2008, 20:36
They are very small GEAR manufacturers whos sell to a very specific group (long distance hikers mainly).
A better analogy may be the small manufacturers that sell specifically to cavers (http://www.swaygogear.com/), windsurfers, etc. Don't see to many people toting around caving gear as fashion...or thru-hiking gear as well.
Lol, well it's only a matter of time.
minnesotasmith
03-31-2008, 22:00
I love Marmot. :)
I like the rainjacket of theirs and their "wet rib" sidepouch. However, they won't service their Dana pack division. You couldn't give me one of their Dana packs now, they're so flawed.
TNF may be a shadow of their former selves, but don't put down all of their gear until you do some research. I'm sure that there are many sources online which will help you decide what gear TNF makes is good and which is junk.
In case it isn't widely known, most name brands go on items designed here, but the manufacture of the goods are put up for bid, so to speak, to the least expensive manufacturer. There probably isn't a factory anywhere with a TNF sign on it - only corporate offices. The labels are sewn onto the products when they're made.
This type of manufacture has been going on for decades in the bicycle industry, with which I am involved. Same factory, different assembly lines, different decals, different brand.
only thing they're recently putting out that i don't see being pooped on is their fleeces... :(
envirodiver
04-01-2008, 00:49
I like the rainjacket of theirs and their "wet rib" sidepouch. However, they won't service their Dana pack division. You couldn't give me one of their Dana packs now, they're so flawed.
That's a shame! I have a Dana Design pack and it is excellent. It has a lot of miles logged on it, nothing is wrong with it, and it will support a lot of weight. They were so expensive that many outfitters didn't have them in the store. Too bad because it's a good product gone away.
minnesotasmith
04-01-2008, 01:14
That's a shame! I have a Dana Design pack and it is excellent. It has a lot of miles logged on it, nothing is wrong with it, and it will support a lot of weight. They were so expensive that many outfitters didn't have them in the store. Too bad because it's a good product gone away.
Supposedly the talented designer they had left, founding his own company, Mystery something-or-other. Meanwhile, Dana went to using POS-quality materials. The rest is predictable.
envirodiver
04-01-2008, 01:18
Yes I think the company is called Mystery System. I was walking with Tipi Walter this past weekend and he had one of those packs. I think he said that the person making them had managed to keep the rights to the Terraplane. Cause I noticed the resemblance and asked about it.
http://www.mysteryranch.com/site/
I think this might be what became of their designer.
I used a decent bit of North Face gear on my 1999 thru-hike, Mountain Light jacket & pants, Cat's Meow early on, and so forth. It was heavy, but so was most gear before cottage gear companies began to affect the general gear market.
Then in 2000, the company was bought and sold multiple times, eventually ending up under the control of Vanity Fair Enterprises, specifically for name recognition. And I had a first row seat (as an REI employee) for what followed: several years of stagnation, with inflated prices for antiquated, heavy gear.
Then in 2005, I started to see the first signs that TNF was genuinely looking at gear again. They began to produce lightweight rain jacket like the precip, softshells and primaloft jackets that were NOT priced through the roof, upgrades to the Cat's Meow bag, as well as the Tadpole tent, and a better emphasis on their pack line. They're certainly no Marmot, which I hold to be the best mainstream gear company for new product innovation, but they haven't completely bowed out of the gear market either.
But it's easy to get a negative attitude when your store's best-selling item is the North Face Denali Jacket, bought by an endless stream of high-school and college girls who routinely profess no interest in the outdoors and only come to REI to buy a new TNF jacket every fall. It's pervasive enough that when I see someone with a ton of TNF gear in the backcountry, a part of my mind thinks "newbie", "poser", or some other derogatory term.
Right about this time, I always remind myself that hiking should be about hiking, not about what brand of gear that someone uses. :o
Chef2000
04-01-2008, 11:28
The North Face
thank you, all these letters it hard to remeber them all
Right about this time, I always remind myself that hiking should be about hiking, not about what brand of gear that someone uses. :o
Good point...
Being a frequent REI shopper, I have a few pieces of North Face gear that I got on clearance or garage sales, way below regular price. For example a Windwall fleece for $15, was over $100. I also have a couple of their nylon shirts that were like $20 marked down from $65. I'm not saying there isn't better stuff out there, but try to beat it for those prices. Should I not wear it because what someone might think... hell no!
DragonStar
04-03-2008, 10:09
I was in Chicago recently, 1 block from the Hancock building with a TNF store prominently at the corner. Over the span of three days, I estimate that 30-40% of people I saw had some form of the black TNF fleece with white logo. There were so many people wearing them that I thought they were promotional giveaways, like when Old Navy opened their downtown store and everyone had Old Navy bags.
I went into the store and asked about the fleeces out of curiosity. They were naturally >$100 and not giveaways, just ultra popular. I browsed and was dismayed at the lack of technical gear. But there was some. I was helped by a girl who clearly knew her shiznit cold. We discussed technical shells and she recommended Marmot and Cloudveil in addition to a decent TNF shell (the only decent shell in the store, as she told me; it was $179). Her sales partner looked very uncomfortable and said "I don't know anything about hiking stuff."
Upstairs I tried on hedgehog mid hikers. They didn't fit me exactly right, but I liked what I saw of them. When I asked the clerk (somewhat knowledgable) for a weighted pack he grew sheepish and said TNF is moving away from the outdoor market and into a fashion market. I tested the shoes in an unweighted pack (the catalyst, maybe?) that I didn't pay much attention to until it impressed me with some no-nonsense, useful features. Later, saw it recommended in Backpacker's 2008 gear guide.
The customers looked at me like I was a freak for walking around in shoes with an actual pack on. So I left with the impression that TNF has its fingers in two different pies, and feeling like an anachronism.
My TNF Trailhead 6 that has been nothing but awesome over three years of use, so all told I'd say their positive gear reviews are deserved. So is the derision they get for selling out and the ire directed at casual, preppy consumers with no appreciation for the authentic roots of the company.
NorthCountryWoods
04-04-2008, 09:32
So I left with the impression that TNF has its fingers in two different pies, and feeling like an anachronism.
I agree. We've got a store in downtown Burlington that if you catch the right person and really know what you're looking for you will find some quality stuff in the racks of fashion. The funny thing is that I own so much stuff that was bought pre-novelty that is still good, I fit right in at the mall. :o
My TNF Peregrine tent (while heavy) was my first purchased backpacking tent (1992) and has got more camp nights on it than any of the others I've owned. Still use it for car or canoe camping. Got a purple stain on it the first trip out, but hasn't had a problem or leaked since.
The old mountain lite jacket (1993-94) was the best I've ever owned and if I hadn't given it away before replacing it with a Marmot (which I'm not happy with), I'd still be using it.
Also the winter bib overalls bought about the same time are still going strong.
TNF gear used to be expensive, heavy, durable and warm....now they've just dropped the durable and warm part.
LIhikers
04-04-2008, 09:53
Anyone else old enough to remember when Eddie Bauer sold gear kits? THey'd package stuff like rip-stop, a pattern, goosedown, etc and you sew your own sleeping bag and stuff?
speaking of kits, remember Frostline? My wife made a bunch of their stuff and some of it is still with us soooooooooo many yaers later.
DragonStar
04-04-2008, 10:02
Is the Burlington store worth a visit? I live about 30 mins away. I'm fortunate to have a Great Outdoor Provision Company about 2500 feet away and an REI on the way to work -- and also Thrift World, and the Internet, and the Thorlos outlet in Statesville... :)
Pennsylvania Rose
04-04-2008, 10:03
I still have a Cat's Meow and my ex has a TNF tent - both were purchased in 1990. I was looking to purchase a new sleeping bag, the specs on the Cat's Meow for the last couple of years look good (although I converted my old bag to a quilt instead).
How's Kelty's quality holding up? I know their old packs are awesome. My daughter is now using her dad's 19 year old Kelty external frame pack. It's not as light as the super lightweight packs out there now, but it doesn't have all of the heavy bells and whistles that so many "mainstream" packs do.
And I have to agree with MS about Dunham shoes. I've never found a pair of hiking shoes that were so comfortable. And, you can get last season's models for less than $30 at Joe's New Balance Outlet, although size selection can be limited.
NorthCountryWoods
04-04-2008, 12:17
Is the Burlington store worth a visit? I live about 30 mins away. I'm fortunate to have a Great Outdoor Provision Company about 2500 feet away and an REI on the way to work -- and also Thrift World, and the Internet, and the Thorlos outlet in Statesville... :)
Burlington, Vermont and it's hit or miss.
NorthCountryWoods
04-04-2008, 12:20
Anyone else old enough to remember when Eddie Bauer sold gear kits? THey'd package stuff like rip-stop, a pattern, goosedown, etc and you sew your own sleeping bag and stuff?
Remember when Abercrombie and Fitch sold bamboo fly rods and engraved shotguns....or am I dating myself?
wilconow
04-04-2008, 12:34
Remember when Abercrombie and Fitch sold bamboo fly rods and engraved shotguns....or am I dating myself?
I was reading a Raymond Carver short story that involved fishing. There was something mentioned about A&F and I was like huh? I only thought of them in the context of malls with blasting music
NorthCountryWoods
04-04-2008, 13:28
I was reading a Raymond Carver short story that involved fishing. There was something mentioned about A&F and I was like huh? I only thought of them in the context of malls with blasting music
I remember my grandfather taking me to one in NYC when I was a little one and it was the FAO Shwartz for the outdoorsmen.
Blissful
04-04-2008, 14:02
I still have a Cat's Meow and my ex has a TNF tent - both were purchased in 1990. I was looking to purchase a new sleeping bag, the specs on the Cat's Meow for the last couple of years look good (although I converted my old bag to a quilt instead).
How's Kelty's quality holding up? I know their old packs are awesome. My daughter is now using her dad's 19 year old Kelty external frame pack. It's not as light as the super lightweight packs out there now, but it doesn't have all of the heavy bells and whistles that so many "mainstream" packs do.
My son loves his Cat's Meow. Good sleeping bag but a little narrow. Campmor sells the older model.
Kelty sleeping bags- the rating is dubious at best. I didn't like their Zen tent much either, but that was me.
DragonStar
04-04-2008, 15:11
Kelty Stuff is good for the price. I have four Kelty bags. The common denominator: they were all dirt cheap. The Kelty 35°F Cosmic Sleeping Bag (http://www.sierratradingpost.com/p/,97751_Kelty-35-F-Cosmic-Sleeping-Bag-Mummy-Synthetic.html) was ~32 after coupon, is 2lb 10 oz, and packs small enough to fit inside the green WalMart stuff sack. All of my Kelty bags have held up to casual wear and tear, although I doubt they'd put up with rough handling for long. I used the 35* cosmic recently on a night that dipped below freezing (I'm guessing right around 30 degrees for a few hours). I was on a Thermarest basecamp and wearing sheer silk longjohns and a fleece cap. It was comfortable, but I definitely felt the chill all night long. Any extremity that slipped off the Thermarest was almost immediately chilled.
My 5 yr old son was on a 3/4 green thermarest and in a Lafuma Junior 35* bag. he slipped off his pad in the middle of the night, even though I checked him at regular intervals, and I was notified by a small whimper. He felt warm in the face but his butt and feet were very cold, so I rolled him into my Kelty bag. That was not particularly comfortable, but it was elastic enough to permit a co-sleep. He didn't even wake up, but it gave me a scare.
The rating on the Kelty bag is, shall we say, not generous. Had I not been in silk jammies and fleece cap, the 35 degree mark would have been uncomfortable. But it is a decently made bag that is servicable esp for the rock bottom price.
Tipi Walter
04-04-2008, 15:37
Yes I think the company is called Mystery System. I was walking with Tipi Walter this past weekend and he had one of those packs. I think he said that the person making them had managed to keep the rights to the Terraplane. Cause I noticed the resemblance and asked about it.
Hey fellow backpacker. Actually, Dana Gleason, the owner of Mystery Ranch, long ago sold off the rights to his Terraplane/Astralplane packs, and they are now made and sold by Marmot. My current pack is a big G6000 which looks a bit like the old Terraplane what with the dual long back pockets, bottle holders, etc, but is pretty different from any of the Dana Design packs.
As far as TNF goes, when I picked up backpacking again in 1977-78, my equipment supplier was a local store in Boone called Footsloggers and they carried the whole line of North Face tents, sleeping bags and backpacks, so I got what they had. As others have said, NF in the old days made the best gear, in fact, they were known for their top of the line down bags, their best bag was called The North Face.
I lived out of a North Face tent(s)from 1978 to 2001, used a North Face sleeping bag(s)from 1977 to 2001, and humped a North Face external frame backpack from 1980 to 2002. Excellent gear. At one time.
Biggest gripe? Two: Insufficient down in their jackets and sleeping bags(chronically underfilled), and a disturbing policy of making a fine tent, getting loyal customers for that tent, and then discontinuing it w/o warning. Mountain Hardwear does the same dang thing. Why dump something people like(the Westwind tent, for instance)? Why not upgrade and improve it? Find something that works and stick with it(one exception is the VE25). This policy works for Bibler, Warmlite, Hilleberg, Integral Designs. Even Eureka keeps the old Timberline A-frame. Can't figure North Face out.
Wedge1173
04-04-2008, 18:22
It was at A&F that Hemmingway bought the shotgun he used to kill himself.
You can't do that today...