View Full Version : Nj
kayak karl
04-02-2008, 20:59
NJ shutting down state parks?
http://www.nj.com/news/sunbeam/index.ssf?/base/news-3/1207120811292820.xml&coll=9
Hit us where it hurts:mad:
kayak karl
04-02-2008, 21:08
Monmouth battlefield,Brendan Byrne, Round Valley, Jenny Jump, Worthington (del water gap) ,Ringwood, D&R Canal (bull island) Washington's Crossing.:mad: George would be pissed
88BlueGT
04-02-2008, 21:21
Wow, thats completely ridiculous! When does this go into effect?
And whats stopping someone from backpacking/camping in Worthington? I planned on doing alot of trips up there this summer.
kayak karl
04-02-2008, 21:58
Wow, thats completely ridiculous! When does this go into effect?
And whats stopping someone from backpacking/camping in Worthington? I planned on doing alot of trips up there this summer.
they are keeping the police, as per article.
Appalachian Tater
04-02-2008, 22:34
This is what one of the richest states in one of the richest nations on earth has come to. If New Jersey could "print" money like the feds do, it wouldn't be a problem.
88BlueGT
04-02-2008, 23:52
"No governor at any time, even during the Great Depression, has ever closed a state park," said Tittel.
Leave it up to NJ.... we'll take care of that :mad:
it's amazing that a state this densely populated with such high property taxes can't afford to keep some parks open.
Two Speed
04-03-2008, 07:47
Not really. Dense populations demand lots of services, and that population may or may not value camping and backpacking as much as we do.
For the record Georgia's gone through the same exercise a few times. So far all it's come to a threat of closure, the Georgia legislature has never followed up on that. Seems like every 5 - 8 years they threaten to close Providence Canyon State Park, and haven't done so yet.
Nonetheless, if I was a New Jersey resident I'd be making my opinion known to the legislature if you disagree with this proposal.
NICKTHEGREEK
04-03-2008, 07:54
"No governor at any time, even during the Great Depression, has ever closed a state park," said Tittel.
Leave it up to NJ.... we'll take care of that :mad:
Gird your loins, this is just the tip of the economic meltdown iceberg
Toolshed
04-03-2008, 08:30
I read somewhere that NJ had more people per capita on some sort of government (state, county or local levels) wages or stipends than any other state. It is true we have the highest per capita income than any state other than CT.
One of the biggest issues is duplication of services. Even the tiniest boros seem to have their own police force, their own township tema of supervisors, many have their own school systems, complete with the complete set of district employees.
Most villages townships and boros are completely against consolidation with others to save on overhead and receive volume goods and services contract. Strangely many people of the townships agree - especially when it comes to school districts.
Time To Fly 97
04-03-2008, 08:55
Did you even read this article? This is referring to some very small parks located in South Jersey near Trenton. Parks like historical buildings, etc. There no mention of closing anything outside of Salem county, and not a word about major State Parks or Forests. Since the AT goes through North Jersey, there is nothing to worry about.
I don't wan't to minimize the importance of this though: Certainly we should all keep our South Jersey neighbors in our hearts during these trying times without historical buildings to visit. And BTW, anyone who has hiked through NJ knows that there are some excellently maintained trails here and superb rangers.
;)
Happy hiking!
TTF
Time To Fly 97
04-03-2008, 09:10
OK....I read the other article and importantly: this hasn't passed yet. If it does, this will probably reflect what happened with Wawayanda State Park (last year?). This did not affect hikers at all. The car access was blocked, no lifeguards, etc.
Happy hiking!
TTF
sasquatch2014
04-03-2008, 09:15
I read somewhere that NJ had more people per capita on some sort of government (state, county or local levels) wages or stipends than any other state. It is true we have the highest per capita income than any state other than CT.
One of the biggest issues is duplication of services. Even the tiniest boros seem to have their own police force, their own township tema of supervisors, many have their own school systems, complete with the complete set of district employees.
Most villages townships and boros are completely against consolidation with others to save on overhead and receive volume goods and services contract. Strangely many people of the townships agree - especially when it comes to school districts.
You left out the inability to make a left turn across traffic in most of the state.
Oh, man! I love Parvin State Park! It's a little gem for the family camping crowd. It was the very first place I ever camped when I was about 4 or 5 years old and growing up in neighboring Gloucester County. Even now I'll drive down there with my kayaks. The lake is small but really nice. TONS of turtles, fish jumping, birds... it's really a great little paddle. I do know that the community has a "Friends of Parvin" organization that helps keep that park running, and running well. Maybe they can take over from the state.
tina.anderson
04-03-2008, 13:42
Is this really happening? Well, I don't even like hiking in New Jersey anyway. But this economy is getting out of control if that is truly the cause.
Highpoint SP is slated to close on 7/1, I just spoke to the office a few minutes ago.
Lone Wolf
04-03-2008, 13:45
it doesn't affect hiking the trail. no biggie
88BlueGT
04-03-2008, 17:07
how do you figure that it doesnt effect hiking the trail? posted above says they are closing worthington state park, and the AT runs directly threw there. That includes places like catfish pond & water tower, sunfish pond, high point (which is still considered worthington I believe), and many other very popular places. I do alot of backpacking there so I really hope they do not close it.
Toolshed
04-03-2008, 19:57
Did you even read this article? This is referring to some very small parks located in South Jersey near Trenton. Parks like historical buildings, etc. There no mention of closing anything outside of Salem county, and not a word about major State Parks or Forests. Since the AT goes through North Jersey, there is nothing to worry about.
I don't wan't to minimize the importance of this though: Certainly we should all keep our South Jersey neighbors in our hearts during these trying times without historical buildings to visit. And BTW, anyone who has hiked through NJ knows that there are some excellently maintained trails here and superb rangers.
;)
Happy hiking!
TTF
Yes,, And other articles!!;) Both Worthington, Jenny Jump, Stokes and Highpoint are all slated to close, as well as Round Valley Rec Area.
how do you figure that it doesnt effect hiking the trail? posted above says they are closing worthington state park, and the AT runs directly threw there. That includes places like catfish pond & water tower, sunfish pond, high point (which is still considered worthington I believe), and many other very popular places. I do alot of backpacking there so I really hope they do not close it.
Worthington starts at the Dunnfield Creek Parking area and continues about 2.5 miles past Sunfish Pond.
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/1/1/4/0/3/pc250047.jpg
Nice hike especially in the summer, although it gets a little crowded. Closing parks sux, but I can still walk through. But I will miss Parvin...
88BlueGT
04-04-2008, 07:43
Oh ok so I was wrong about Catfish and all that being included. But they are still closing down sections of the AT which sucks.
Lone Wolf
04-04-2008, 08:04
no sections of AT will be closed. it is a national scenic trail. states can't can't close the corridor
88BlueGT
04-04-2008, 08:07
so even though the AT runs through Worthington the AT can still be hiked?
Oh ok so I was wrong about Catfish and all that being included.
Catfish Pond yes, High Point no.
Grumpy Ol' Pops
04-04-2008, 10:48
NJ shutting down state parks?
From the news story: The proposed closures would save about $4.5 million in salaries and maintenance....
From Wikipedia: Corzine's candidacy for Governor, like his prior run for the U.S. Senate, broke all prior spending records. The combined expenditures for Corzine's run for the Senate and Governorship exceeded $100 million.
While the salary of the Governor of the State of New Jersey is $157,000, state law allows for a maximum of $175,000
For a man supposedly well-educated, why would someone spend such a large amount of money to get a job paying so little? Something is terribly wrong when anyone can take a job this way!
Had he paid the costs of maintaining the state parks out of his own pocket, he could keep them running for many years.
Will the "Governor's Summer Mansion" in Island Beach State Park also be closed down this year and neglected the way Waterloo Village has been?
isn't it interesting that someone would spend millions of their own money to get a chance to make $150k a year for a couple of years?
What about Wharton State Forest in the Pine Barrens? Any news on those? I know that the Pine Barrens enjoy some sort of international eco-designation through UNESCO. (Don't remember the details.) Hopefully that will help keep that area open. I enjoy paddling into sites down there and camping and would gladly pay more than the $1.00 or so a night that they charge for a permit.
Toolshed
04-04-2008, 18:26
isn't it interesting that someone would spend millions of their own money to get a chance to make $150k a year for a couple of years?
NJ ain't like Karla Katz - Just can't pay it to go away (well.... then again, maybe you can......:D)
X-LinkedHiker
04-04-2008, 18:31
Yeah Corzine is a real genius huh? Continue countless pork spending funds and cut the measly 2.9 million that is costs to watch trees grow. I am glad I left NJ a long time ago with crap like that. Pennsylvania laughs at the idea of ill-affording state parks.
Yeah Corzine is a real genius huh? Continue countless pork spending funds and cut the measly 2.9 million that is costs to watch trees grow. I am glad I left NJ a long time ago with crap like that. Pennsylvania laughs at the idea of ill-affording state parks.
Yeah, I know what you mean. I like PA better, except for the potholes and having to pump my own expensive gas. I left NJ back in 1980, but I've always identified myself as being from South Jersey. These days, though, my elderly mom struggles to still live down there. Crazy things are going on.
Back in the old days.... Jim Florio woulda never let state parks go down! :D
kayak karl
04-04-2008, 21:47
What about Wharton State Forest in the Pine Barrens? Any news on those? I know that the Pine Barrens enjoy some sort of international eco-designation through UNESCO. (Don't remember the details.) Hopefully that will help keep that area open. I enjoy paddling into sites down there and camping and would gladly pay more than the $1.00 or so a night that they charge for a permit.
Didn't hear any thing about Wharton Track, Batsto, Bass River, Belplain or Coastal trails. But Brynden Byrn (Lebonan State) is part of the Batona Trail?? Local Protests are already starting!
Grumpy Ol' Pops
04-04-2008, 21:50
isn't it interesting that someone would spend millions of their own money to get a chance to make $150k a year for a couple of years?
That was my exact thought!!!!
Grumpy Ol' Pops
04-04-2008, 21:53
Didn't hear any thing about Wharton Track, Batsto, Bass River, Belplain or Coastal trails. But Brynden Byrn (Lebonan State) is part of the Batona Trail?? Local Protests are already starting!
It seems strange that the affected areas are in places that are predominantly Republican, also!!!
Didn't hear any thing about Wharton Track, Batsto, Bass River, Belplain or Coastal trails. But Brynden Byrn (Lebonan State) is part of the Batona Trail?? Local Protests are already starting!
Yes, Batona Trail is in Lebanon-Brendan Byrne. From the Batona Hiking Club website: With the exception of approximately four miles, the Batona Trail crosses land protected by the NJ Department of Environmental Protection's Division of Parks and Forestry with much of the maintenance performed by the Batona Hiking Club.
Designated access and parking for the Batona Trail include the northern trailhead at Ongs Hat, the State Forest Office, and Pakim Pond, all within Brendan T. Byrne State Forest; Carranza Memorial, the State Forest Office at Batsto, and Evans Bridge in Wharton State Forest; and at the southern trailhead, at the recreation area in Bass River State Forest.
And I just went out for my first hike with the Batona Hiking Club the other day. I enjoyed the hike and intend to join the group. I just haven't sent my money in. I guess I'll do that tomorrow. I hope the trail won't be threatened by the closures, but my guess is that the club will continue to be responsible for trail maintenance.
88BlueGT
04-05-2008, 02:21
That was my exact thought!!!!
They do it for the opportunities that can come afterwards. Just like being an Attorney General. They come in, do their 2 years (or 4, I forget) and than try and get a seat on the bench.
And I am very pleased to hear that people are protesting. I'm thinking about writing a letter signed by a bunch of people (maybe 10 or fifteen) and sending it in. Not that it will do anything but every little bit helps. If a thousand others write in, it may dawn on him that hes an idiot for doing this and I'm sure he can find somewhere else to cut 4 million from (why do state workers come to mind ??????????? :rolleyes: and I'm not hating on state workers, I just quite a job at the state about 6 months ago).
For anyone interested, if you go to nynjtc.org, there is a link for a hike from High Point SP to Trenton during the 3rd (I think) week of May to protest the SP closures.
88BlueGT
05-01-2008, 14:45
how long do are you guys planning for this hike?
I hiked the DWG to Unionville piece last week and somewhere along the trail i remember seeing a petition to stop the closure of the parks( being from PA i could not sign it).
If they need money they should sell bear hunting licenses for a week or two period and use that money to pay for the parks.
Pedaling Fool
05-01-2008, 21:52
I also remember reading about Gov. Corzine forcing small towns to incorporate themselves into the larger neighboring towns to save money. Sounds like big govenment at work in NJ.
jersey joe
05-02-2008, 14:04
The trails are not closing, not such a big deal really.
Supposedly the parks are not closing either. Jon Corzine is a stupid, dumb, idiotic, nincompoop that needs to be removed from office and put into a loony bin.
Supposedly they found the money for the parks. Sen. Barbra Buono stated to a group that works at the Monmouth Battlefield that the money was found and they were not going to have to close anything.
jersey joe
05-06-2008, 12:09
Supposedly the parks are not closing either. Jon Corzine is a stupid, dumb, idiotic, nincompoop that needs to be removed from office and put into a loony bin.
I heard the same, parks in NJ will NOT be closing. At least Corzine had the forsight to vote against the Iraq war...
Can we ask Gov. Corzine to take a walk??
http://www.recallcorzinenow.com/
Time To Fly 97
05-06-2008, 15:18
I heard the same, parks in NJ will NOT be closing. At least Corzine had the forsight to vote against the Iraq war...
That's because he wouldn't receive a monetary incentive. Give children under six year's old 35 vaccinations? Absolutely - you know why?
Happy hiking!
TTF
jersey joe
05-07-2008, 08:41
Just a guess, but so they don't get sick? No, No, that polio vaccination is just smoke and mirrors right?
Time To Fly 97
05-07-2008, 09:36
Jersey Joe: The important numbers in my post are 35 and 6. This amount is Illegal in every other country except the US. Corzine is even trying to make it mandatory to fgive toddlers the flu vaccination. No conclusive evidence, but plenty to be concerned about is the link between vaccinations and autism (not found in other countries). The more you read about this, and especially if you have children, the more you will feel outraged that our kids are put at risk for profit.
Happy hiking!
TTF
jersey joe
05-07-2008, 09:45
I saw a special on this, jenny mcCarthy of all people was on larry king live talking about over vaccinations and autism...interesting arguements on both sides, nothing conclusive though...I hear your point though.
Time To Fly 97
05-07-2008, 10:57
Right on. At first they were researching the amount of mercury in vaccinations as the contributing factor, but after reducing mercury in vaccinations, there hasn't been that much change in autism. I think that giving children that much vaccination is too much for some of their immune systems to handle at such a young age. Whatever it is, it seems obvious that there is some correlation between vaccinations and autism. All research contrary to the autism link is sponsored by pharmaceutical companies (who risk losing profits) - probably biased findings.
My wife and I (and most parents we know) buy separate vaccinations so that we can spread them out (vs. the 6 in one shot, etc.).
Happy hiking!
TTF