Hiring Backpacking Tour Guide [Archive]

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joburnet

04-07-2008, 19:10

If this ad is not allowed or appreciated then please take it down. A new company, Skyline Hiking, is now hiring backpacking tour guides for the 2008 summer season. Our brand new website, www.skylinehiking.com (http://www.skylinehiking.com), should be up within the hour. Please email me at [email protected] if you have any questions. Thanks.

Dream Job

How would you like to get paid for doing what you love, something you

already pay a lot of money to do? Skyline Hiking is now hiring for

experienced backpacking tour guides.

We want you to plan the trip you've always wanted to do! Then with our

support lead a group of customers on the time or their life.

We offer reimbursement for certification.

Qualifications:

Min Age:

25 for trip leader
18 for trip co-leader

40 hour Wilderness First Aid certification

Responsible and Detail oriented

Natural leader with good interpersonal skills and conflict resolution

abilities

Nearly Normal

04-08-2008, 01:31

Let me be the first to book.
I'll need 50 porters, 2 gun bearers, 6 trackers.
I'll be after the famed "white ape man" and the elephant graveyard.
Conversation should be limited to "yes Bawana, no Bawana".

minnesotasmith

04-09-2008, 23:34

There actually IMO is a market for this, but less on the AT than on more remote routes (CDT, etc.). The concept of hiring a guide for a cross-Alaska hike had crossed my mind previously. However, if your guides are still teenagers/mid-20s, I'd have to wonder a bit about their maturity and knowledge.

Frosty

04-09-2008, 23:45

if your guides are still teenagers/mid-20s, I'd have to wonder a bit about their maturity and knowledge.Not just that. People who would pay for such a service are likely those with money, and well older than 18-25.

How much experience can an 18-year-old have? What credentials could he have to be responsible for others? How can you convice 30 or 40 year old client that such a "guide" knows more than the client? That the "Guide" can be relied on in an emergency with the proper knowledge and skill sets required?

warren doyle

04-10-2008, 08:14

I'm free.
Seven groups up the entire Appalachian Trail - six of those groups had 100% completion of those hikers who made the commitment to the expedition's three expectations (six unbroken circles atop Katahdin).
My eighth, and probably last, expedition starts their preparation a few days before Damascus Trail Days.
More info on the 2010 AT Circle Expedition at my website below.

SGT Rock

04-10-2008, 08:21

I've run into a couple of guided hikes up on the AT near the NOC. I didn't ask the guides specifically who they worked for, but they did tell me they worked for some outfit in the area. People could come, get gear provided, not have to know much about the area or even hiking, and they got shown a good time. I have no idea what the price was.

Bearpaw

04-10-2008, 09:01

How much experience can an 18-year-old have?

Enough to work for next-to-nothing.

I worked three seasons for the National Outdoor Leadership School, largely during summers off from teaching. If you factor in my working only a 8-hour day (when I was really working with students 24/7), I made just under minimum wage. The school could get away with it because they were also providing room (a tent or tarp) and board (our foodbags). Of course, it WAS cool to come in from a month in the mountains and have a check for a grand or so waiting.

But you're not likely to get folks with a lot of experience for a summer contract job for the money most guide services pay, especially one which is just starting up.

Newb

04-10-2008, 09:35

You can pay me to follow along and ask questions anytime. The 40 hour wilderness first aid certification is a stopper, though. All I have is what the military taught me.

Tipi Walter

04-10-2008, 10:23

I used to run a backpacking school in the mountains of NC back in the early 1980s(see fotog). I literally ran it out of a backpack and my contact number was a friend's phone number for messages. I ended up taking out all types of people, dentists, high school kids, college students, etc. Here's the best part: I only charged $10 per person per trip since I was out anyway and this was before the nanny state got involved with high insurance rates and that danged wilderness emt course.

I'd be interested in hearing a typical cost quote from the skylinehiking boys. Just wondering.

jesse

04-10-2008, 10:31

This idea has entered my mind. There are people who have never camped, let alone backpack. If you provide gear, and food, I think it would be a demand for it here in the Atlanta area.

Tipi Walter

04-10-2008, 10:47

This idea has entered my mind. There are people who have never camped, let alone backpack. If you provide gear, and food, I think it would be a demand for it here in the Atlanta area.

I had my people sign an accident waiver but later found out that in reality such a piece of paper is practically worthless w/o adequate insurance, etc. I think there's probably a way to take people out while avoiding the usual henpecking rules, permits and regulations.

For example, when I take friends out on backpacking trips and show them my favorite trails and camping sites, I don't have to have insurance or a para-rescue course to do it. So what's the difference in taking out a group of interested strangers who pay? I guess running a business with ads, etc, opens yourself up to problems. What if I take people out and not charge them money? Is it still a business?

max patch

04-10-2008, 10:52

This idea has entered my mind. There are people who have never camped, let alone backpack. If you provide gear, and food, I think it would be a demand for it here in the Atlanta area.

I remember when High Country was in all the malls they offered that service.

warren doyle

04-10-2008, 11:12

Alligator

04-10-2008, 11:46

127-day trek of the entire Appalachian Trail (mostly day hikes with vehicular support)
no insurance - no liabilty forms to sign - no fees
More info at the website below.

The freedom of the hillls has no place for governmental institutions, industrial/business organizations and the human-constructed legal profession.Translation
I'm a self-promoting s***. Not only will I start multiple threads about my "expeditions", I will hijack other threads that cover similar topics. You are approaching spam level Warren.

jesse

04-10-2008, 11:47

Only people with deep pockets really need to worry about getting sued, unless you are indeed grossly negligent. If I were to do it, it would be without insurance. Make sure they understand all the risk.

warren doyle

04-10-2008, 11:51

I prefer to be a self-promoting spam.

minnesotasmith

04-10-2008, 11:52

The freedom of the hillls has no place for governmental institutions, industrial/business organizations and the human-constructed legal profession.

Bringing murderers and thieves to justice, and forcing the latter to pay back what they stole? What moral person could be against those?

Nearly Normal

04-12-2008, 00:52

The freedom of the hillls has no place for governmental institutions, industrial/business organizations and the human-constructed legal profession.

Damn revenuers.

joburnet

04-13-2008, 11:41

minnesotasmith

04-13-2008, 12:15

Here is an update to some of the questions I've seen so far.

Our typical guide will be in his/her 30-40's and have a full time job. They will run 3-4 trips a year by either taking vacation from their job, running a weekend trip on a holiday weekend, or have a job that is very flexible such as a teacher who has the summers off.

We pay a very competitive wage and all of our guides will be 1099.

We are fully insured and we will have emergency medical and evacuation insurance for all of our customers included in the price of the trip.

Our advertising is geared toward beginners, people with little to no backpacking experience. We provide all gear and food with everything being high quality. We will offer trips between 2-7 days initially and longer trips in the future depending on demand.

If anyone has any other questions please let me know. Thanks,

Jonathan Burnette

I'm planning a summer hiking trip several years from now along the foothills of the Brooks Range in Alaska, starting near Old Rampart by the Porcupine River on the US-Canada border, and hiking roughly 1000 miles west to the town of Seward. I have yet to definitely decide if the route would be north or south of the Brooks. Most resupply would be by airdrop. I figure it is a minimum of 2 dogs, 3 people, 4 firearms. Do you, or someone you know, think they could handle being part of this? (I believe I could do the logistics on this, but getting enough #s for the trip is the issue.)

X-LinkedHiker

04-13-2008, 12:17

Not just that. People who would pay for such a service are likely those with money, and well older than 18-25.

How much experience can an 18-year-old have? What credentials could he have to be responsible for others? How can you convice 30 or 40 year old client that such a "guide" knows more than the client? That the "Guide" can be relied on in an emergency with the proper knowledge and skill sets required?

I would basically say, anybody that is fresh out of the military would have to completely disagree. For people like me who have been hiking since I was 7 between scouts, groups, family, and then by myself, I don't see how they wouldn't have the experience needed. Most emergency first aid people, firefighters, and rescue people are in their 20's. Experience does not just come with age, it comes with adventure. Besides, that is a pretty weak argument. Would you turn down scuba lessons because the person who actually knows what they are doing is younger than you? How about rock climbing? I would go with whoever looks, presents, and acts the most experience out there. Don't think that I haven't seen my fair share of 40 year olds screwing off on the mountain. In fact, the last 12 missing peoples and S&R reports I read were all people in their 30's and 40's.

Frosty

04-13-2008, 13:03

How much experience can an 18-year-old have? What credentials could he have to be responsible for others? How can you convice 30 or 40 year old client that such a "guide" knows more than the client? That the "Guide" can be relied on in an emergency with the proper knowledge and skill sets required?

I would basically say, anybody that is fresh out of the military would have to completely disagree. For people like me who have been hiking since I was 7 between scouts, groups, family, and then by myself, I don't see how they wouldn't have the experience needed. Most emergency first aid people, firefighters, and rescue people are in their 20's. Experience does not just come with age, it comes with adventure. Besides, that is a pretty weak argument. Would you turn down scuba lessons because the person who actually knows what they are doing is younger than you? How about rock climbing? I would go with whoever looks, presents, and acts the most experience out there. Don't think that I haven't seen my fair share of 40 year olds screwing off on the mountain. In fact, the last 12 missing peoples and S&R reports I read were all people in their 30's and 40's.The fact that there or 40 year old screwoffs or that 40 year olds get lost is irrelevant to the fact that 18 year olds are highly unlikely to have the years of experience necessary to handle a backwoods emergency.

Client: Son, what experience do you have to get us through a possible backwoods emergency?

18 year old would-be guide: Well, last week a 40 year old man got lost in Franconia Notch, and the scuba instructor at the Y is 18 years old.

See what I mean? Being 40 is not a guarantee of have the required experience, maturity, and wisdom. Being 18 practically guarantees the lack of it.

I asked what credentials an 18 year old could have that I could trust him or her to be responsible for my safety in a situation where immediate external help is possible. Being in the military and being a firefighter is a tough job, but it does not give you the experience and qualifications someone needs to be responsible for people in the woods. Not that there are any 18 year old ex-military types anyway.

He says the guides will be 18-25 and to me, 25 should be the minimum age as far as I'm concerned, with backwoods exerience, and no one under 22 unless he displayed ttremendous knowledge and maturity. Like the rescue people you mentioned in your post. Or even an 18-year old who is the son of a guide and has been taking part on his dad's expeditions for the last few years. Guys like that I would pay.

It is understandable that you and I see things differently. What one sees depends on where one stands. I noticed that you are 25 and I am 60. I'm sure that if 25-year-olds were the bulk of the guide's business he would do well as you can empathize better with a guide just out of high school. For middle-aged clients, an 18-year old backwoods guide is a tough sell. I based my original post on my belief that most people with the money to pay to be guided in the woods would be middle-aged people with more money than time to get out there and learn themselves.

Sly

04-13-2008, 13:14

It's a minimum of 18 years for trip co-leader aka lacky. 25 for trip leader. Both need :

40 hour Wilderness First Aid certification

Responsible and Detail oriented

X-LinkedHiker

04-13-2008, 15:07

Yeah, I think frosty missed the read of that part. Minimum is exactly what the post says. Some people just like to find something wrong with whatever other people have to say. I would trust a 22 year old who's been trained in survival to the max than anyone who hasn't. Plain and simple.

In fact there are many advantages that a youngster trained and with experience could have over somebody with the same experience but is 50. For example, speed, health, and strength. Personally, if I was on a group trip that was being guided, I would like to know the if somebody got hurt, the guide was young and strong enough to be able to pick somebody up, move them appropriately, or is fast enough to react to the situation at hand.

In regards to having to rely, depend, or even take orders from somebody half your age, just have to learn to get over a 'know it all, cause I am older' attitude and realize that they could and will save your life when the time comes. And they would do it just as well as anybody else with the same qualifications or experience.

I would expect that people that would require a guide, which means lack of experience, would understand that anybody that is well versed in the area, and has the experience to even get the job int he first place is still a HELL of a lot better than doing it without a guide simply because they are 'old enough' to accomplish it on there own.

DavidNH

04-13-2008, 15:22

1. where oh where is Baltimore Jack when we need him? Gonna be some serious words exchange in this thread!

2. If I am to go into the wilderness, I don't want to rely on some 18 year old. in most cases..they them selves would need supervision or further training. I could see an 18 yr old as a guides assistant or as a porter. But that age to me seems way to young to be leading groups.

3. Guides are for, in my view, serious mountain climbs or alaskan style wilderness adventures. Doing the Presies in winter.. goot time to hire a guide.

to hike the AT, with all the assistance, trail magic, hosels, information from web, companion and thru hiker handbook, how does one justify the expense of a guide? To boot it is nearly impossible to get lost on the AT unless you REALLY don't pay attention.

DavidNH

X-LinkedHiker

04-13-2008, 15:28

David, I agree with everything you said.
Thats why if you read, 18 would be exactly that, guides wouldn't be qualified until 25. I am pretty sure he said the guided groups would be going anywhere a trip is planned, not necessarily on AT at all. Even if it is, why does everybody assume that the group that would be guided would be some experienced middle aged hikers. These could be groups from summer camps, boy/girl scouts, school group, or even a family of 5 or so.

minnesotasmith

04-13-2008, 15:44

It's a minimum of 18 years for trip co-leader aka lacky. 25 for trip leader. Both need :

40 hour Wilderness First Aid certification

Responsible and Detail oriented

Throw in 6-10 years of experience as an adult in guiding or medical, and you'd have someone worth bringing (as more than a porter/hauler of wood and water). ;)

X-LinkedHiker

04-13-2008, 15:56

But that's the part non trailsmen would need to have done. Hauling stuff and being a mule basically. You expect somebody who's paying to go hiking to want to carry their own stuff? He he.

Camping Dave

04-13-2008, 18:19

minnesotasmith

04-13-2008, 20:40

Lighten up naysayers. The fact is that most people on the trail don't have anything approaching a 40 hour wilderness emt course under their belt, or 6 years of trail time, or a lone winter Into The Wild Alaskan wilderness, or serious outdoorsman Survivorman credentials. Probably not most of the downer people here, certainly not every single one of their hiking buddies.

If someone wants another hiker to PAY for their presence, they can expect to have to have some unusual credentials/background to be taken seriously to that degree. Think of what we expect of M.D.s, attorneys, engineers and scientists (look up the requirements for a Professional Engineer or Professional Geologist certification in your state), architects, etc. A professional-level skater, skiier, sharpshooter, weightlifter, tennis player, gymnast, or team sports player has spent years and years devoted primarily to their trade in most cases, by way of comparison. Why should a professional guide (making more money than some of the preceding) expect to mostly get a pass on THEIR apprenticeship? The answer is they can't.

X-LinkedHiker

04-13-2008, 21:14

I am sure most of the people qualified to be a guide would do it for free, but why not get paid to do something you love if you can. I certainly haven't seen anyone discuss the salaries or payment to these guides and have definitely not seen that they would be making more than anybody. I don't think people will be PAYING for someone to just hike with them but keep them in tuned and alert and actually mapping out the trails they will be doing. I don't see how it is any different than paying somebody to tutor you. Even though you may experience, there is much to be learned from all hikers around us. This is why we are members of this forum isn't it? Maybe not everybody that wants to take their family hiking once a year wants to spend hundreds of hours on these forums just to do that.

Jim Adams

04-13-2008, 21:17

The fact that there or 40 year old screwoffs or that 40 year olds get lost is irrelevant to the fact that 18 year olds are highly unlikely to have the years of experience necessary to handle a backwoods emergency.

Client: Son, what experience do you have to get us through a possible backwoods emergency?

18 year old would-be guide: Well, last week a 40 year old man got lost in Franconia Notch, and the scuba instructor at the Y is 18 years old.

See what I mean? Being 40 is not a guarantee of have the required experience, maturity, and wisdom. Being 18 practically guarantees the lack of it.

I asked what credentials an 18 year old could have that I could trust him or her to be responsible for my safety in a situation where immediate external help is possible. Being in the military and being a firefighter is a tough job, but it does not give you the experience and qualifications someone needs to be responsible for people in the woods. Not that there are any 18 year old ex-military types anyway.

He says the guides will be 18-25 and to me, 25 should be the minimum age as far as I'm concerned, with backwoods exerience, and no one under 22 unless he displayed ttremendous knowledge and maturity. Like the rescue people you mentioned in your post. Or even an 18-year old who is the son of a guide and has been taking part on his dad's expeditions for the last few years. Guys like that I would pay.

It is understandable that you and I see things differently. What one sees depends on where one stands. I noticed that you are 25 and I am 60. I'm sure that if 25-year-olds were the bulk of the guide's business he would do well as you can empathize better with a guide just out of high school. For middle-aged clients, an 18-year old backwoods guide is a tough sell. I based my original post on my belief that most people with the money to pay to be guided in the woods would be middle-aged people with more money than time to get out there and learn themselves.

Ever been whitewater rafting?
I am the oldest guide on the Youghiogheny River in Pa. The training required is usually taught in 3 weeks time and is intensive. 95% of the guides are 21 or younger, (college students with the summer off)and I would trust my life with almost all of them...and whitewater can be dangerous....backpacking is nowhere near as hazzardous.
Besides....all these naysayers on this thread who are older than 18 or 25...most of you could not meet the requirements for the job which means that the 18 y/o that can meet them is far more qualified than you to be backpacking...experience will not qualify you for the position, you have to have enough initiative to want the job to go further and get specific training....that is also how the insurance industry looks at the situation...no certification, no job.:-?
geek

X-LinkedHiker

04-13-2008, 21:23

Well said.

Camping Dave

04-13-2008, 21:27

Think of what we expect of M.D.s, attorneys, engineers and scientists (look up the requirements for a Professional Engineer or Professional Geologist certification in your state), architects, etc ... Why should a professional guide (making more money than some of the preceding) ...

Joburnet, if it's true you plan to pay this much, let me be the first soon-to-be-retired engineer wish you the best of luck in your endeavor, and ask where I sign up!

River Runner

04-13-2008, 21:59

Ever been whitewater rafting?
I am the oldest guide on the Youghiogheny River in Pa. The training required is usually taught in 3 weeks time and is intensive. 95% of the guides are 21 or younger, (college students with the summer off)and I would trust my life with almost all of them...and whitewater can be dangerous....backpacking is nowhere near as hazzardous.
Besides....all these naysayers on this thread who are older than 18 or 25...most of you could not meet the requirements for the job which means that the 18 y/o that can meet them is far more qualified than you to be backpacking...experience will not qualify you for the position, you have to have enough initiative to want the job to go further and get specific training....that is also how the insurance industry looks at the situation...no certification, no job.:-?
geek

Good point Jim, although it seems most of the whitewater guides I've seen are in their early 20's, with trip leaders in maybe their mid-20's or slightly older. There are few guides over 40.

Although customers pay a good bit for a guided trip, the guides really make very little. Given the physical demands, the liability, and the pay scale, most older than 30 move on to more lucrative jobs.

As a 50 year old, I would not have a problem going backpacking with a younger guide that had a good bit of experience (were I the type to want a guide). I sort of figure I am ultimately responsible for myself anyway, so youth doesn't matter as much as knowledge/experience. The guide mainly needs to know the area, emergency procedures, and some advanced first aid. This can certainly be learned with some intense training and a few years co-leading with someone more experienced.

Another example is pool life guards. We are trusting them to be able to save the life of people, yet many of them are under 18, with the vast majority under 21.

X-LinkedHiker

04-13-2008, 22:08

Or any job for that matter. If you goto Six flags, even though you have been there before, if you don;t know where you're going, you ask someone that works there. Doesn't matter if they are 14 or 41 you expect them to know where to go and how to get there. Obviously a very rough comparison as it has nothing to do with physical or safety standards. Just that anybody who is trained on a specific section or so is better than just winging it.

River Runner

04-13-2008, 22:13

If someone wants another hiker to PAY for their presence, they can expect to have to have some unusual credentials/background to be taken seriously to that degree. Think of what we expect of M.D.s, attorneys, engineers and scientists (look up the requirements for a Professional Engineer or Professional Geologist certification in your state), architects, etc. A professional-level skater, skiier, sharpshooter, weightlifter, tennis player, gymnast, or team sports player has spent years and years devoted primarily to their trade in most cases, by way of comparison. Why should a professional guide (making more money than some of the preceding) expect to mostly get a pass on THEIR apprenticeship? The answer is they can't.

Do you have any pay scale statistics to show that a professional guide makes more than any of the other professionals you have listed?

As far as professional gymnasts, aren't they usually finished with their careers well before age 25? Isn't around 15-18 the optimum age? Wouldn't a guide who started hiking/backpacking as a 5 or 6 year old have the same devotion to their 'trade' as a gymnast of the same age?

I'm not really sure about you, but I don't expect the same level of knowledge and experience from a guide that I would of a doctor. I'd sure hate to have some river rafting guide doing surgery on me! :eek:

Jim Adams

04-13-2008, 22:33

Do you have any pay scale statistics to show that a professional guide makes more than any of the other professionals you have listed?

As far as professional gymnasts, aren't they usually finished with their careers well before age 25? Isn't around 15-18 the optimum age? Wouldn't a guide who started hiking/backpacking as a 5 or 6 year old have the same devotion to their 'trade' as a gymnast of the same age?

I'm not really sure about you, but I don't expect the same level of knowledge and experience from a guide that I would of a doctor. I'd sure hate to have some river rafting guide doing surgery on me! :eek:

LOL ...or have a doctor lead or guide guests through the Upper Yough or the Gauley!:D...at least his medical skills would be useful!:banana:banana:banana

geek

River Runner

04-13-2008, 22:37

LOL ...or have a doctor lead or guide guests through the Upper Yough or the Gauley!:D...at least his medical skills would be useful!:banana:banana:banana

geek

Good point. But then again the Doctor's skills wouldn't be all that handy if he's stuck under an undercut rock in Iron Ring or circulating around a hydralic under Sweet's Falls. :D