Why I'm still not hanging

[Bootstrap]

I have a hammock, a Hennessy Hammock without the net. I have the original tarp and a few others.

But I just can't find a way to stay warm that is:

1. cheap
2. not bulky
3. not heavy
4. not complicated

Is there anything that meets all 4 criteria? I'm sleeping beneath my tarp for now ...

Jonathan

[River Runner]

You could try this if you already have a self inflating pad you could use -

http://www.speerhammocks.com/Products/SPE.htm

Might be a little complicated, but not very expensive, bulky, or heavy. So 3 out of 4 ain't bad.

I think even ground dwellers would have trouble meeting all four of your criteria. Generally if it is cheap it is bulky.

Personally, I often use just a wide closed cell foam pad like the RidgeRest Deluxe or a Gossamer Gear wide pad, but they are relatively bulky. If you can live with the bulk, they are pretty light and cheap, and good for multi-use (fold and use as a sit pad around camp). And you can also go to ground with them if needed.

Underquilts are the most comfortable for sleeping, and not complicated once you get the hang of them, but they are more costly, and are not good for going to ground.

[Hooch]

I have a hammock, a Hennessy Hammock without the net. I have the original tarp and a few others.

But I just can't find a way to stay warm that is:

1. cheap
2. not bulky
3. not heavy
4. not complicated

Is there anything that meets all 4 criteria? I'm sleeping beneath my tarp for now ...

JonathanYes, but if you don't have mad sewing skills or know someone who does, you're SOL. Sign up at Hammock Forums (http://www.hammockforums.net), plenty of know how there.

[take-a-knee]

I have a hammock, a Hennessy Hammock without the net. I have the original tarp and a few others.

But I just can't find a way to stay warm that is:

1. cheap
2. not bulky
3. not heavy
4. not complicated

Is there anything that meets all 4 criteria? I'm sleeping beneath my tarp for now ...

Jonathan

You just ain't tryin' hard. You likely already have a thermarest, buy a Speer Segmented Pad extender for it and use whatever bag/quilt you have on top. If funds are tight and you or Momma can sew, make a Jardine style underquilt from his kit. Then you can make a KAQ underquilt from the plans at Hammock Forums and you'll be set.

[envirodiver]

I bought a HH over the winter and have done home set-ups a few times. Just waiting for warm weather. If I get hooked on hanging this summer then I may invest in the winter required gear.

But there really does seem to become a trade-off in weight when you have to start carrying alot of underquilts, etc. for winter.

Course I'm a hanging rookie and may just not get it.

[hammock engineer]

Being comfortable in a hammock is directly proportional to the amount of testing and research you do. There are tons of options both cheap and expensive that fit your requirements.

Mine is about 7lbs including sit torso pad for every everything. Very compariable to others tent/tarp, sleeping bag, pad, bug netting, and stakes.

[sasquatch2014]

I was concerned by the same thing you are facing now as i began to look at the hammock. i didn't want to have to carry all this extra gear such as the underquilt etc just so that then my sleeping bag could work it seemed like added problems. Upon doing a bit more digging I came across the Clark North American. It is a lot more in cost than the Hennessy until you figure in the underquilts etc that you need for the Hennessy to be rigged like the NA. The basic idea is that the NA has pockets that can be used to create the dead air space necessary for insulation.

I second the idea to check out the hammock forum. Tons of great info there and a lot of people who have faced the similar issue I am sure. You already have the hammock so the only thing you have to loose is time.

[Seeker]

I have a hammock, a Hennessy Hammock without the net. I have the original tarp and a few others.

But I just can't find a way to stay warm that is:

1. cheap
2. not bulky
3. not heavy
4. not complicated

Is there anything that meets all 4 criteria? I'm sleeping beneath my tarp for now ...

Jonathan


you're trying to violate the 'good-fast-cheap' triangle, but it's not hard to stay warm.

complicated is a matter of practice... it takes no thought at all to put a foam pad in the bottom of the hammock, slightly more to hang an underquilt. like learning to tie a shoelace, practice makes it easy. there is indeed a learning curve. but keep at it!

cheap-two $6 blue foam pads are as cheap as it gets. a little duct tape and some scissors will make you a pad with 'wings' to keep your shoulders warm. at the other end of the spectrum are the down underquilts. but they are light. in the middle are the homemade synthetic quilts. heavier, less compactable, but cheaper.

bulky-warmth comes from loft, which by definition must be bulky. a foam pad for a hammock has to be a little wider, even if it's thinner than an underquilt. no way around this one. a down underquilt is less bulky when put away than it's synthetic counterpart, same as a sleeping bag.

light-my hennessy is 32oz with the stock tarp. my underquilt is 20oz. that's 52oz, or 3.25 lbs. if i use a larger tarp, it goes up to about 3.75 lbs. how does that stack up to a tent/tarp/mosquito net/comfortable mattress? it's no contest... yes, a tarp, a head net, and a trimmed down blue foam pad is lighter. but you need to compare apples to apples... comfort is what i'm after. i've found nothing that enables me to sleep in the same comfort as my hammock. even if it were heavier, i'd still carry it.

keep at it, ask questions, experiment, and check out hammock forums for advice.:)

[the goat]

I have a hammock, a Hennessy Hammock without the net. I have the original tarp and a few others.

But I just can't find a way to stay warm that is:

1. cheap
2. not bulky
3. not heavy
4. not complicated

Is there anything that meets all 4 criteria? I'm sleeping beneath my tarp for now ...

Jonathan

in short: no. stick to the tent/tarp.

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

Bootstrap has hit the nail on the head for why I have not switched -- in order to be comfortable in a hammock, I have to carry an extra pound of very bulky gear as a solo --- and about 2 extra pounds and more bulk as opposed to what I have to carry to camp as a couple and being comfortable in on the ground.

The only hammock I can safely enter and exit is a bridge style hammock -
JRB Bear Mountain - 33 ozs
Tree Hugger Straps - 4.5
Exped Wallcreeper (down fill) - 31.4 ozs
Blue CCF pad - 11 oz
10 x 11 cat tarp plus ropes - 19 ozs
Stakes - 5 ozs
So to hammock, I have to carry 103.9 ozs or 6.5 lbs

On the ground as a solo:
Tyvek ground cloth - 3.2 ozs (7 ozs for oversized tyvek for two)
Hanging bug net - 5 ozs (7 ozs for bug net for two)
10' x 12' silnylon tarp - 19 ozs
Rope and stakes for various configurations - 7 ozs
Big Agnes Insulated Air Core mat (rectangular) - 24 ozs
Exped Wallcreeper (down) - 31.4 ozs
So my set up for being a single on the ground - 89.6 ozs or 5.6 lbs

Here comes the weight savings: this is what we can add to the solo set-up above for two Dinos to live like royalty:
Thermarest Pro-Lite 3 pad - 23 ozs
A 72' x 8" piece of synthetic quilt (lies between Dinos to give added area for arms and legs) - 3 ozs
He-Dino sleeping bag - 36.7 ozs
So the set-up for two Dinos 158.1 or 9.9 lbs or 4.45 lbs per person

The weight plus the fact that He-Dino isn't at all interested in being a bear burrito pretty much assures I won't be a hanger anytime soon.

[Fiddleback]

Keeping warm is too much of an individual thing to make statements about "hammocks" or any other gear. Temps, the camper's adaption to the cold (cold sleeper? warm sleeper?), current weather (windy? wet?), camping skill and experience, etc., all play a role and heavily impact on each other and the level of comfort. Gear is used in combination with other gear and, in turn, used in a combination with the other factors. Modify or change one piece and ya' quite likely will end up modifying another. You certainly will change the results of the entire 'system'.

"Keeping warm" needs some definition just as 'winter' or 'three season camping' does. Warm at 40°...at 20°...or at -10°? Sleeping in the humidity of the Atlantic Seaboard or in the arid Mountain West? Using under insulation...a sleeping bag...a combination, or something else? Spring at the southern end of the AT or spring at 6000' in western Montana? In good shape personally or exhausted and gone to bed without dinner? What 'tricks' and techniques are used to stay warm?

It's all relative and all specific to the individual and the conditions faced each night. We can report our individual experiences and post our suggestions but both the writer and the reader must understand that what 'works' works for the individual, not necessarily for the White Blaze membership as a whole. While I spent the warmest night I'd ever had in a hammock (the only time I used a top cover), 20 feet away a trail mate was miserably cold in a sleeping bag and tent...

Me? My older model Oware pad (7oz and $24), my cold weather clothing, 'nomal' sleepwear and nothing else keeps me happy down to the mid-20s. The pad is the limiting factor...for a few ounces more foam I'd be good into the low-teens (I think;)). Once I got my Hennessy the only other piece of gear I added was the 7oz pad...everything else was already carried. Compared to sleeping on the ground, I save both pack weight and money hangin'.

But we're all different. You just have to experiment and find what works. There is a learning curve...afterall, in a hammock you're giving up the heat-sink benefit of the ground and adding the issue of cool air underneath the hammock sucking heat away. Initially, it's not as easy to stay warm, but once learned the new found comfort of hangin' far, far surpasses sleeping on the ground. IMO.

One more thing to remember...all generalizations are false.:D

FB

[take-a-knee]

Bootstrap has hit the nail on the head for why I have not switched -- in order to be comfortable in a hammock, I have to carry an extra pound of very bulky gear as a solo --- and about 2 extra pounds and more bulk as opposed to what I have to carry to camp as a couple and being comfortable in on the ground.

The only hammock I can safely enter and exit is a bridge style hammock -
JRB Bear Mountain - 33 ozs
Tree Hugger Straps - 4.5
Exped Wallcreeper (down fill) - 31.4 ozs
Blue CCF pad - 11 oz
10 x 11 cat tarp plus ropes - 19 ozs
Stakes - 5 ozs
So to hammock, I have to carry 103.9 ozs or 6.5 lbs

On the ground as a solo:
Tyvek ground cloth - 3.2 ozs (7 ozs for oversized tyvek for two)
Hanging bug net - 5 ozs (7 ozs for bug net for two)
10' x 12' silnylon tarp - 19 ozs
Rope and stakes for various configurations - 7 ozs
Big Agnes Insulated Air Core mat (rectangular) - 24 ozs
Exped Wallcreeper (down) - 31.4 ozs
So my set up for being a single on the ground - 89.6 ozs or 5.6 lbs

Here comes the weight savings: this is what we can add to the solo set-up above for two Dinos to live like royalty:
Thermarest Pro-Lite 3 pad - 23 ozs
A 72' x 8" piece of synthetic quilt (lies between Dinos to give added area for arms and legs) - 3 ozs
He-Dino sleeping bag - 36.7 ozs
So the set-up for two Dinos 158.1 or 9.9 lbs or 4.45 lbs per person

The weight plus the fact that He-Dino isn't at all interested in being a bear burrito pretty much assures I won't be a hanger anytime soon.

So, carrying a hammock causes you to need 0.9# more gear, and you have medical issues that neccesitate a heavier hammock that likely won't apply to most folks.

I'd be willing to bet that most people, Dinos included, could not tell the difference between two identical packs loaded for five days that were 0.9# apart in weight.

This hammock weight thing is a complete non-issue.

[Strategic]

This is how we used to print it on t-shirts for our technical staff:

[] Good

[] Quick

[] Cheap

Check two.

--

Seriously though, I'd say an underquilt is the way to go if you need light and less bulky. I'm working on mine now (getting close to done, but the time to sew just keeps getting eaten up) made from Momentum90, PrimaloftOne and Heat-reflective silnylon. It's based on the style of this underquilt design (http://www.thru-hiker.com/workshop.asp?subcat=5&cid=72) from ThruHiker.com, but I've modified the body of it a quite a bit to get the right shape, coverage and fit. The key is to remember that you're essentially building things backwards from what you'd normally do: on this UQ the "liner" (the part up against the hammock) is the structural part and the "shell" hangs from it. With the heat-reflective shell, it should work out to be a 30* UQ weighing 16oz. Add that to my 14oz overquilt and 26oz hammock (an HH Hyperlight, and that includes lines and stakes) and I'm looking at 3.5lbs total for sleep and shelter. This will be my 3-season standard and would be what I'd choose as my thru-hiking setup. I didn't go with the original design mostly because it's down and I don't use that if I can help it (a personal prejudice to be sure) but if you don't mind that then the originals would be good too. The one on the site is just under 11oz, though that's with only 1.5" of down. If you cut the shell a bit larger and adjusted, you could get more thickness and make it even warmer and you could also add the heat-reflective shell as I did.

[SGT Rock]

Just my opinion but a pocket pad for the bottom and a top quilt have always been light, comfortable, and comparative in price to most other options available for ground or hammocks. I've used this with my regular hiking clothing down below freezing on many occasions.

[Mags]

I'd be willing to bet that most people, Dinos included, could not tell the difference between two identical packs loaded for five days that were 0.9# apart in weight.



You are correct. But add half a pound over the course of a few items you supposedly won't notice,and you have a heavy pack. :O

Not trying to be a smart ass, just saying that it is very easy to say "A few ounces won't make a difference" and do that over the entire kit.

Will a half pound make a difference from one pack to the next? No.
Will that thinking cause a heavier pack? Quite possibly.

Just something to keep in mind.

My own .02: Hammocks seems to be popular, but best for areas, that well..have trees. :)

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

Fiddleback, thanks for discussing the flip side of my story and reminding us that gear isn't a one-size-fits-all type of thing. When it is even moderately cool overnight, I've never been really warm in a hammock in the field no matter what I did or carried. The only time I've been warm was in my own backyard with 3/8" CCF pad and a king size down comforter wrapped all the way around me and the hammock. Some of us just were not meant to be burritos - we freeze our dino whiskers off.

[take-a-knee]

You are correct. But add half a pound over the course of a few items you supposedly won't notice,and you have a heavy pack. :O

Not trying to be a smart ass, just saying that it is very easy to say "A few ounces won't make a difference" and do that over the entire kit.

Will a half pound make a difference from one pack to the next? No.
Will that thinking cause a heavier pack? Quite possibly.

Just something to keep in mind.

My own .02: Hammocks seems to be popular, but best for areas, that well..have trees. :)

Granted, an extra pound or two times four or five can turn a pleasant hike into death march in rugged terrain. SGT Rock got me started paring away at my kit, and now it weighs about half of what it used to. Ounces add up, but a hammock is worth one pound, IMO.

My daughter and I want to do at least part of the CDT and the JMT in a few years, and for that reason I've picked up a tarptent.

[Mags]

Ounces add up, but a hammock is worth one pound, IMO.




Personally, I'd rather take 11 Snicker bars instead of a hammock. ;)

[bigcranky]

I go back and forth. I got my first Hennessey Hammock in 2002, and used it for solo hiking for several years, and we used three of them on our first big family section in 2003. But all of my solo trips lately have been in the winter, and I just find it easier (and lighter) to use a bivy and tarp with a big puffy down bag. For our family trips, we switched to a 3-person Tarptent (though recently my daughter has taken to hanging the hammock on our summer weekend hikes.)

But, but, but... the hammock provides the most comfortable night's sleep I have ever had in the backcountry. I lie down, fall immediately asleep, and wake up in the morning totally refreshed. I have a solo section coming up in June, and it's definitely back to the trees for me.

For summer use, the hammock is only 9 ounces heavier than my tarp/bivy/pad combo, and so worthwhile for the comfort. The only downside is the lack of flexibility -- with the pad/bivy I can sleep in a shelter if I need to, but with the hammock I am only carrying a 3/4-length CCF pad. I've tried sleeping in a shelter with one of those, and it just isn't good.

Sure, 9 ounces is a bunch of Snickers, but the rest of my load is so light that it's a good trade. (Hey, I can carry BOTH the hammock AND the Snickers!)

[kayak karl]

Personally, I'd rather take 11 Snicker bars instead of a hammock. ;)
how do you sleep in, on or under 11 snicker bars:D

[Bulldawg]

I'll tell ya, I love my hammock. Not having backpack camped with anything else, I don't know how to compare it. But having car camped for many years I can compare it with that experience. While sleeping on the ground, even with a foam pad, I have spent many nights waking up every 45 minutes or so because of pressure points the body creates while on the ground. Now in my hammock, I can sleep ALL NIGHT LONG without getting cold. I carry a homemade synthetic down quilt. It is a bit larger than REALLY necessary, but I wanted it to be warm and large enough. It weighs 3.1 pounds. But now it is 7'x5' with TWO layers of climashield in it. I carry a North Face down bag, it's old, but still warm. It weighs almost 3 pounds. I also carry a Oware wide hammockcer pad, I don't what it weighs, it cannot be much at all. The hammock itself is homemade and the hammock with all the attachment gear weighs in at about 14 ounces. So for I guess about 7.5 pounds, I can sleep all night long, wake up without a sore back, sore knees, or sore shoulders, refreshed for another day's hiking. I will stick with my hammock.

They are so comfortable that my seven year just recently had me order her one for her first overnighter. She has laid in my many times and hates the ground as much as I do. My 6 year old son will be getting one also next spring as he loves both of ours.

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

how do you sleep in, on or under 11 snicker bars:DIf I eat 11 Snicker bars, I'm not getting any sleep. Just saying.

[Marta]

how do you sleep in, on or under 11 snicker bars:D

Around the outside of...

[freefall]

I have a HH Exp-A-sym and use a Thermarest Prolite 3/4 length. I was using a 20* synthetic but just switched to a 15* down. I also have a silk liner.With the 20* bag I was set down to about 15*. I would wear my fleece hat and jacket to bed and slept OK. I am now planning on a winter hike and am considering some other options.
One thing I found is an under-quilt that you stuff with whatever you can find. It is basically two half sil-nylon tarps sewn together . When you get to your campsite and set up your hammock, just attach the under-quilt and then stuff it with duff. This helps keep things light and mobile. If you go through a section w/o duff you could use snow or anything that traps air.
I have not tried this yet but it makes sense. The layers shield you from the wind, and anything that traps heat will trap your body heat and radiate it back so you would get some warming from underneath without the need to carry a heavy underpad.
I have a hike coming up mid-May in RMNP and will be using this system. I'll let you know how it goes. An under-quilt w/o having to carry the insulation? Great idea!

[Doctari]

My tent set up:
Nomad tent; 32 Oz, somewhat complicated but can be set up (if I hurry) in 2 minutes. Packs to the size of a softball.
Groundcover 4' x 7' coated nylon, 14 Oz, it just fits in the pocket of my work pants.
Full size CC pad; 14 Oz.
Sleeping bag 64 Oz but I was going to switch to a RayWay tarp, so lets say 32 Oz
Required pillow case, 3 Oz
Required trekking poles (used as teh supports for the tent) 24 Oz
Total; 119 Oz / 7.5 Lbs

My hammock set up:
I havent the $$$ for sil nylon yet, so for now my tarp is 32 Oz takes about the same space as the sil nylon tent above.
Hammock, hammock sock & suspension; about 32 Oz.
"It's nice to have" pillow case 0.5 Oz.
Ray WAy quilt, 32 Oz
Under quilt, 28 Oz
Sit pad / extra under me insulation, 4.5 Oz
Total 128 Oz / 8 Lbs

My hammock set up, even without a silnylon tarp only adds about 1/2 Lb, but very minimal bulk to my ground set up. I can get down to 20 degrees with the above set up & the cost wasnt bad considering that I am using nothing from my ground set up.
I will admit that I still carry the trekking poles, but don't NEED them to set up my shelter.

[Undershaft]

I have a HH expedition A-Sym. I used a ridgerest pad and my 20F sleeping bag with dry camp clothes. Keeps me warm down to the upper forties if its not too windy. In midsummer I ditch the bag and just use a microfleece bag liner. No extra gear to buy and it works just fine. Getting into/out of the bag isn't really a big deal. And I have a right hand zipper.

[Fiddleback]

Fiddleback, thanks for discussing the flip side of my story and reminding us that gear isn't a one-size-fits-all type of thing. When it is even moderately cool overnight, I've never been really warm in a hammock in the field no matter what I did or carried. The only time I've been warm was in my own backyard with 3/8" CCF pad and a king size down comforter wrapped all the way around me and the hammock. Some of us just were not meant to be burritos - we freeze our dino whiskers off.


In the third of a century I called San Antonio home I learned to love burritos and hate the heat. So now I hang in western Montana.:D

You're absolutely right...not everyone fits each style or technique. But that's not a bad thing...what would we do if everyone who 'doesn't get' backpacking suddenly got it...?:eek: I'm not an absolutist...there are benefits to tents, most of them social.;)

The backpacking community has a big tent....umm, hammock...uh...well, you know what I mean.

FB

[FeO2]

For me:

Sleeping on the Ground = 2 to 3 hours in the morning hiking like an old man with arthritis until all the kinks work out.:mad:

Sleeping in a Hammock = fully rested without any aches or pains. :)

[Tinker]

I have a hammock, a Hennessy Hammock without the net. I have the original tarp and a few others.

But I just can't find a way to stay warm that is:

1. cheap
2. not bulky
3. not heavy
4. not complicated

Is there anything that meets all 4 criteria? I'm sleeping beneath my tarp for now ...

Jonathan

Try this:
http://outdoors.webshots.com/album/237103382ByZIeG

Get one of those bug netting covers from ENO or Byer or Travel Hammock to keep the biting insects at bay.

[River Runner]

. I am now planning on a winter hike and am considering some other options.
One thing I found is an under-quilt that you stuff with whatever you can find. It is basically two half sil-nylon tarps sewn together . When you get to your campsite and set up your hammock, just attach the under-quilt and then stuff it with duff. This helps keep things light and mobile. If you go through a section w/o duff you could use snow or anything that traps air.
An under-quilt w/o having to carry the insulation? Great idea!

A little scary idea if you ask me. When insulation is needed most (cold and wet conditions), any duff is also going to be cold and wet. Seems like cold wet leaves would provide little insulation, to say nothing of the chill produced by gathering them up and stuffing them inside the underquilt.

Sleeping directly on snow with only a thin piece of sil-nylon between it and you doesn't seem like it would be very warming either. If it were, mountaineers would be sleeping directly on the snow, wouldn't they?

[hammock engineer]

I have a HH Exp-A-sym and use a Thermarest Prolite 3/4 length. I was using a 20* synthetic but just switched to a 15* down. I also have a silk liner.With the 20* bag I was set down to about 15*. I would wear my fleece hat and jacket to bed and slept OK. I am now planning on a winter hike and am considering some other options.
One thing I found is an under-quilt that you stuff with whatever you can find. It is basically two half sil-nylon tarps sewn together . When you get to your campsite and set up your hammock, just attach the under-quilt and then stuff it with duff. This helps keep things light and mobile. If you go through a section w/o duff you could use snow or anything that traps air.
I have not tried this yet but it makes sense. The layers shield you from the wind, and anything that traps heat will trap your body heat and radiate it back so you would get some warming from underneath without the need to carry a heavy underpad.
I have a hike coming up mid-May in RMNP and will be using this system. I'll let you know how it goes. An under-quilt w/o having to carry the insulation? Great idea!

I would be careful about this. I remember being really cold last winter. I am not an expert winter hiker by any means. I just remember times when I was cold. The last thing I would want to screw with is stuffing an underquilt when I'm freezing.

I'm not sure that snow would work for this. But like you said, a testing you will go.

[Ramble~On]

Not all winter camping trips are equal but I wouldn't and won't test a new system in the field. Testing things in the backyard makes a lot more sense than driving, hiking and than testing something while being committed to it.
I like backpacking in all four seasons and winter is a favorite. I hammock and tent.

[Mags]

how do you sleep in, on or under 11 snicker bars:D


I sew the wrappers together to make a tarp.

[whitefoot_hp]

foam pads with some fabric in between you and them. Cheap light, not bulky if you go thin and combine aproach with inflatable. However, if you are all about cheap and light, perhaps you should look towards low weight ground camping, like torso pad, bivy, poncho.

[whitefoot_hp]

I sew the wrappers together to make a tarp.
i love the dual use approach

[johnny quest]

i use an spe with blue pads and a RECTANGULAR down bag that can unzip into a quilt. so far with my hh exped this seems to do fine. ive tried it down to 27 or so degrees and remained comfortable. the spe/pad is bulky but im willing to make that allowance.

[AlabamaDan]

Try this:
http://outdoors.webshots.com/album/237103382ByZIeG

Get one of those bug netting covers from ENO or Byer or Travel Hammock to keep the biting insects at bay.

Did that guy just make a hole in his sleeping bag somehow to allow the rope to pass, then slide the bag around the hammock like a sock? I've been thinking that would be a quick and easy solution.

The problem with just throwing a sleeping bag inside the hammock is that it compresses underneath you right? But, doesn't it do the same thing on the ground?

[johnny quest]

sure, but the ground has "some" insulating properties whereas the air under your hammock steals heat.
i wouldnt put a hole in my bag but i think you could jus zip it up to the bottom around the rope. most bags have two way zippers.

[whitefoot_hp]

I have a hammock, a Hennessy Hammock without the net. I have the original tarp and a few others.

But I just can't find a way to stay warm that is:

1. cheap
2. not bulky
3. not heavy
4. not complicated

Is there anything that meets all 4 criteria? I'm sleeping beneath my tarp for now ...

Jonathan
try eno double nest, (50 bucks) big anges insul air pad, (60-70 bucks) with current bag/quilt, voila! you are now sleeping like a king.

[generoll]

I swing both ways on this. On my two weeks this past month I spent one week in a hammock and one week tenting/sheltering. I can't really say that either was warmer, but...

The hammock was nice when the ground was wet. I found it about as hard to pick a spot with the right space between trees as I did finding a level spot for a tent. The hammock gave me a nice snug feeling once I finally got into it and got settled and centered. The extra CCF pad I carried made my pack much bulkier, which was an issue on the relatively rugged trail I hiked the hammock week. My CCF pad has slashes in it from the scrapes on different flora.

My rig was a BA airmat and bag to which I added the CCF pads from Gossamer Gear when hammocking. Next time I go hammocking (and I will) I am taking my small folding saw to trim the underbrush between trees. The hammock set up is slightly heavier then my Black Diamond tent, but getting up off the wet ground is also a big deal for me.

Practice at home next winter and see for yourself what works best. There's a learning curve to everything.

[4eyedbuzzard]

For me:

Sleeping on the Ground = 2 to 3 hours in the morning hiking like an old man with arthritis until all the kinks work out.:mad:

Sleeping in a Hammock = fully rested without any aches or pains. :)

For me:

Sleeping on good old Big Agnes (no, NOT my neighborhood church lady - the inflatable one - no not that either - I mean the MATTRESS darn it) = fully rested without any aches or pains. :) :D

[Tinker]

Did that guy just make a hole in his sleeping bag somehow to allow the rope to pass, then slide the bag around the hammock like a sock? I've been thinking that would be a quick and easy solution.

The problem with just throwing a sleeping bag inside the hammock is that it compresses underneath you right? But, doesn't it do the same thing on the ground?

A sleeping bag in a hammock will be compressed. A sleeping bag around a hammock will not.
I used a semi-rectangular down bag in the photo above. I now use a Golite Feather-lite zipperless bag which follows the contours of my body better, making better use of the insulation. The only drawback is that the down tends to work its way to the bottom of the bag leaving you slightly chilled on top. Simply work the bag so that the heaviest amount of down which was below you is now on the top.
You don't need an underquilt, as you see in my picture. The sleeping bag becomes both the over and under - quilt.

[whitefoot_hp]

For me:

Sleeping on good old Big Agnes (no, NOT my neighborhood church lady - the inflatable one - no not that either - I mean the MATTRESS darn it) = fully rested without any aches or pains. :) :D

for me, sleeping in hammock on my half inflated big agnes pad = hard to sleep in bed when i get home. :D

[Bulldawg]

If you ever get sleeping in a hammock right, you will NEVER sleep on the ground again.

[Alligator]

...
My rig was a BA airmat and bag to which I added the CCF pads from Gossamer Gear when hammocking. Next time I go hammocking (and I will) I am taking my small folding saw to trim the underbrush between trees. The hammock set up is slightly heavier then my Black Diamond tent, but getting up off the wet ground is also a big deal for me.

Practice at home next winter and see for yourself what works best. There's a learning curve to everything.Please reconsider the saw as that sounds about as bad as cutting pine boughs to sleep on.

[BillyBob58]

Bootstrap has hit the nail on the head for why I have not switched -- in order to be comfortable in a hammock, I have to carry an extra pound of very bulky gear as a solo --- and about 2 extra pounds and more bulk as opposed to what I have to carry to camp as a couple and being comfortable in on the ground.

The only hammock I can safely enter and exit is a bridge style hammock -
JRB Bear Mountain - 33 ozs
Tree Hugger Straps - 4.5
Exped Wallcreeper (down fill) - 31.4 ozs
Blue CCF pad - 11 oz
10 x 11 cat tarp plus ropes - 19 ozs
Stakes - 5 ozs
So to hammock, I have to carry 103.9 ozs or 6.5 lbs

On the ground as a solo:
Tyvek ground cloth - 3.2 ozs (7 ozs for oversized tyvek for two)
Hanging bug net - 5 ozs (7 ozs for bug net for two)
10' x 12' silnylon tarp - 19 ozs
Rope and stakes for various configurations - 7 ozs
Big Agnes Insulated Air Core mat (rectangular) - 24 ozs
Exped Wallcreeper (down) - 31.4 ozs
So my set up for being a single on the ground - 89.6 ozs or 5.6 lbs

Here comes the weight savings: this is what we can add to the solo set-up above for two Dinos to live like royalty:
Thermarest Pro-Lite 3 pad - 23 ozs
A 72' x 8" piece of synthetic quilt (lies between Dinos to give added area for arms and legs) - 3 ozs
He-Dino sleeping bag - 36.7 ozs
So the set-up for two Dinos 158.1 or 9.9 lbs or 4.45 lbs per person

The weight plus the fact that He-Dino isn't at all interested in being a bear burrito pretty much assures I won't be a hanger anytime soon.

Yes, as FD points out, no doubt there can be individual requirements such as " The only hammock I can safely enter and exit is a bridge style hammock" that can not be gotten around and add slightly to the weight comparisons. But this particular requirement will of course not apply to every body. Most could ( if weight were the primary concern) replace the BMBH with a Speer and save about 10 ozs. That alone would get the ground "solo" weight comparisons to nearly identical, and there might be some even lighter hammock options available. For example, for those able ( small and light enough) to use a HH Adventure racer, the weight without tarp would be about 11 ozs, saving about 21 ozs from the solo hammock weight given above, now actually coming in 1/2 lb LIGHTER than the sample solo ground weight. Now, I could never use that hammock, but many fit, thin people could.

But, while we are debating the merits of a few ounces here and there- I feel this does not really work out to an apples vs. apples comparison. For example, what about a bivy for ground use? I don't think the weather worthiness of a tarp and tyvek ground sheet ( without a good WP bivy) is really a match for a hammock with adequate tarp. Not that I have not used the ground set up many times, and mostly I have stayed adequately dry. But the weight of the hammock includes at least a somewhat water/wind resistant bivy equivalent ( some are waterproof- Claytor- some are highly/slightly water/wind resistant.) But this benefit is minor compared to being 6" to several feet above the ground. For example, I just came in from hanging in my bone dry back yard( to start with anyway) as a deluge of wind driven rain came through. My bone dry back yard is now a swamp, with standing water in several areas, and every where you will bog down a couple of inches if you try to walk across it. Imagine trying to keep down bags dry on a tyvek ground sheet, with out even a bivy sack, as you try to sleep in an area that turns into a mud bog after you go to bed. Or if no flat spot can be found after hiking all day except a muddy, boggy area. But in my hammock, I was absolutely bone dry, as dry as my yard was before the deluge hit. There is standing water that ill be there until tomorrow all around and under my hammock- it finally flowed under there from the nearby "lakes", but that is a non-issue as far as sleeping warm and dry. I don't think I would be any where near as secure/dry even in my four season tent with a "water proof" floor. So it's not an apples to apple comparison IMO, even before getting into comfort, which is a major consideration.

As for spouses sharing one tarp, well, no way around the benefits of that, weight savings and other-wise! ;) Although, I have heard of two folks having their hammocks under one tarp. But, since I don't go with back packing with my spouse ( for one thing, she hates sleeping on the ground and she hasn't had the nerve to try a hammock), I go with my buddies. And 25 years of packing experience shows me that the last place I want to be after a week on the trail is in a tent or under a tarp with snoring buddies who stink as bad as I do. :eek: I love the fact that I can be about 20 feet or more away, and I'm OK with just barely being able to hear them snoring off in the distance. So, we all have our individual preferences!

35* solo weights
Claytor No Net with straps 22 ozs
CCF pad ( needed for ground anyway) 14 to 19 ozs
Down or synthetic top quilt 20 ozs
warm clothing with hood (for hiking/sit around camp) I have anyway ground or hammock-- 0 ozs
MacCat deluxe tarp 13 ozs ( or maybe HH Hex 19 ozs or Speer Winter 17 ozs)
stakes/lines 7 ozs

from 76 ozs-82 ozs---- 4.75 lbs to 5.435 lbs. Warm and dry and uber comfy. What's wrong with that set up? :)

Alternative for 20 degrees:
replace 19 ozs of pad and 20 oz top quilt from above with 42 ozs of Speer PeaPod: net plus 3 ozs for total 85 ozs. Or 5.3 lbs. That doesn't sound bad to me.

Alternative for 0*: Add 14 ozs of pad back in with PeaPod for 99 ozs or 6.1 lbs. Fellow back packers, Is that really so bad for 0*? You are going to have some kind of thick bag and pad to be warm at 20* on the ground aren't you? As for me, winter or not, I'm going to need a much thicker pad fro comfort and cushioning from the rocks and roots, on the ground.

Where is the trouble with warm and light in a hammock? As for bulky, just use the pad you use on the ground already, or use highly compressible PeaPods. With a pad, You might have to rig up something a little wider for your shoulders, otherwise the same bulk and weight as on the ground.

If a PeaPod is too expensive, don't you also use an expensive bag for ground use? If a pod or down UQ is just too expensive, then just use the same pads and bags/quilts you already use on the ground. If you happen to be using a Claytor hammock, that pad will be easy to use and quite comfortable in the hammock.

[generoll]

Please reconsider the saw as that sounds about as bad as cutting pine boughs to sleep on.

I had considered other options, but my chainsaw is just too heavy. Pine boughs were certainly good in their day (and highly recommended by the purists of their time), but what if you are hammocking in a hardwood forest? After a sharp branch poked a hole in my ENO last time out I decided that the ground beneath my hammock needed to be pruned a bit more thoroughly.

[KnowledgeEngine]

Hello,

I wanted to reply to your original question. Light?, Cheap, not bulky.

I have had good luck with the Big Agnes system. It is a mummy style sleeping bag, but with no bottom to become compressed. You can insert a CCF pad, or a Air Core (air mattress pad) into a sleeve at the bottom.

Although I own a Claytor Jungle Hammock with a sleeve for the same purpose, I prefer the BA. The reason being when I zip up the pad is always directly below me. This system does take a little bit of adjusting to center in your hammock. I would recommend the Insulated version of their air pad, as you will not want the pad fully inflated the insulation seemed to help a bit. I keep my pad about 60-70% inflated. With it fully inflated I was able to lay flat as a board, but it felt like laying on one too :)

I can only attest to one of the systems. I have a 40+ bag, with the insulated air core, and it kept me warm in boxers in the 40's and with hiking clothes in the low 30's. I did not carry any type of thermals on the trip.

Hope this helps.

[Alligator]

I had considered other options, but my chainsaw is just too heavy. Pine boughs were certainly good in their day (and highly recommended by the purists of their time), but what if you are hammocking in a hardwood forest? After a sharp branch poked a hole in my ENO last time out I decided that the ground beneath my hammock needed to be pruned a bit more thoroughly.You could practice better site selection rather than necessitating carrying a saw and creating holes in the understory. One of the touted benefits of hammocking is a lessened impact on sites. But hey, feel free to be a wise ass when someone asks you politely to consider mitigating your impact:rolleyes:.

[johnny quest]

billybob,
outstanding post. very well thought out and stated.

[BillyBob58]

billybob,
outstanding post. very well thought out and stated.

Thanks, JQ.

[Nightwalker]

Mine is about 7lbs including sit torso pad for every everything. Very compariable to others tent/tarp, sleeping bag, pad, bug netting, and stakes.

Which is why, though I absolutely love hanging, I tent on LD hikes. Tent, stakes, pad and bag for me weigh 4 pounds. I haven't been able to get close to that yet with a hammock.

However, come Summertime, when I'm night hiking a good deal, the hammock situation is so much more comfortable and I don't need a pad then. I can sleep comfortably in 90+ degree weather in the daytime with a hammock, no pad, and just a flannel liner to start out the morning. At that point in time, hammocking gets sensible for me.

[Nightwalker]

One more thing to remember...all generalizations are false...

The rest of the line: including this one!

[Nightwalker]

Personally, I'd rather take 11 Snicker bars instead of a hammock. ;)

Especially if someone else is paying for them!

Snickers, PB and olive oil have been my pals on the trail this year. Snickers, however, especially 2 or more per day, will eat into your food budget!

[Nightwalker]

i use an spe with blue pads and a RECTANGULAR down bag that can unzip into a quilt. so far with my hh exped this seems to do fine. ive tried it down to 27 or so degrees and remained comfortable. the spe/pad is bulky but im willing to make that allowance.

It got to or below 10F a couple of nights in GA for me this year.


If you ever get sleeping in a hammock right, you will NEVER sleep on the ground again.

There go those generalizations again...

I like a hammock just fine; I love it, in fact. There are still times that I choose the tent/ground option. And no I don't wake up sore and creaky, probably because I'm very used to sleeping out there.

Sorry about all of those individual posts. I forgot about the multi-quote!

[Bootstrap]

As for spouses sharing one tarp, well, no way around the benefits of that, weight savings and other-wise! ;) Although, I have heard of two folks having their hammocks under one tarp. But, since I don't go with back packing with my spouse ( for one thing, she hates sleeping on the ground and she hasn't had the nerve to try a hammock), I go with my buddies.

Sharing a hammock, from what I understand, is not great. True?

Jonathan

[boarstone]

If you ever get sleeping in a hammock right, you will NEVER sleep on the ground again.


...amen...:banana

[Hooch]

Sharing a hammock, from what I understand, is not great. True?

JonathanI shared a hammock for the night last summer on camping trip with my then-5-year-old son. It was like trying to take a nap in your dryer. I can't imagine what it would be like trying to share a hammock with another adult.

[paradoxb3]

as others have said, hammocks are NOT a "one-size-fits-all" option. i'm a solo sleeper and have a claytor jungle hammock and love it. i can also stay warm in it into the mid 20s and windy with nothing but an unmodified blue foam pad and my kelty 25 degree down bag -- and sleeping in base layers/wool socks. in fact, the only time i have been cold in it was when i first got TOO HOT, began to sweat, then the sweat made me cold.

in the same temps/weather, however, many others would require an additional underquilt, bag liner, 2" thick pad, and layers of clothes to stay as warm as i do.

i suffer in the summer though. :)

[whitefoot_hp]

I like a hammock just fine; I love it, in fact. There are still times that I choose the tent/ground option. And no I don't wake up sore and creaky, probably because I'm very used to sleeping out there.

Sorry about all of those individual posts. I forgot about the multi-quote!
exactly. For me its all about what kind of hike i am doing. the hammock is great on shorter trips, i sleep in it 'right' lol, but have no problem going to the ground for longer trips if i want to go light.

[hammock engineer]

Which is why, though I absolutely love hanging, I tent on LD hikes. Tent, stakes, pad and bag for me weigh 4 pounds. I haven't been able to get close to that yet with a hammock.

However, come Summertime, when I'm night hiking a good deal, the hammock situation is so much more comfortable and I don't need a pad then. I can sleep comfortably in 90+ degree weather in the daytime with a hammock, no pad, and just a flannel liner to start out the morning. At that point in time, hammocking gets sensible for me.

I can't argue with you on this. Nothing is lighter than a pad on the ground with a tarp and quilt. I think everything more than that is more weight for more comfort. Where everyone stops adding weight for comfort is up to them.

Once I get a new pack and a couple non-sleeping system things my pack will be around 20 lbs. Good enough for me.

[Bulldawg]

I am a pretty cold sleeper and am not really sure where I might fall on the temps I could go to without a underquilt. This past weekend my 7 year old daughter went with me. She has chosen to be a hammocker. She is an extremely hot sleeper. So I gave her a wide Gossamer Gear pad and a walmart pad under her 20* Kelty bag. She actually ended up shedding some clothes in the bag with a low of somewhere around 40* on Springer Saturday night. (Please note I was fully prepared to swap hammocks with her should she have needed the underquilt.)
Now Dad over there next to her was not cold, but not HOT with an underquilt and a 30* OLD North Face Bag.
So I said all that to illustrate that each person is different in their sleeping needs and thus each person will need a different system in a hammock.
What I need to do is figure out how low I can go without having to carry my 39 ounce underquilt.

[Bootstrap]

Just my opinion but a pocket pad for the bottom and a top quilt have always been light, comfortable, and comparative in price to most other options available for ground or hammocks. I've used this with my regular hiking clothing down below freezing on many occasions.

I'm definitely going to try this. Just have to get the foam and do it ... thanks for the tip!

Jonathan

[MedicineMan]

removing the underquilt from the hammock when packing up.
Get a system/stuffsack/whatever that allows you to keep the underquilt affixed to the hammock.....you spend some time dialing it in, why disrupt that? leaving it attached at the same points solves this and decreases your camp breakdown time. While your at it why not keep the top quilt in the hammock and your sleep cap? No real need to separate them either....so setting up the hammock is setting up the underquilt and your topper is already there. I've got over 300 nights in an HH lite racer now and only went to ground last summer in Kings Canyon when above 10,000 feet.

[Hooch]

removing the underquilt from the hammock when packing up.
Get a system/stuffsack/whatever that allows you to keep the underquilt affixed to the hammock.....you spend some time dialing it in, why disrupt that? leaving it attached at the same points solves this and decreases your camp breakdown time. While your at it why not keep the top quilt in the hammock and your sleep cap? No real need to separate them either....so setting up the hammock is setting up the underquilt and your topper is already there. I've got over 300 nights in an HH lite racer now and only went to ground last summer in Kings Canyon when above 10,000 feet.IMO, a DIY BlackBishop sack (http://www.tothewoods.net/HomemadeGearBlackbishopSack.html) would fit this bill nicely. There's also a thread (http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/showthread.php?t=159&highlight=blackbishop+sack) about it on HF. :D

[hammock engineer]

I switched to the DIY sack Hooch said last Spring and haven't looked back. Way easy and packs a lot better than anything else I tried. As was said the hammock, hammock sock/netting, UQ, and top quilt/sleeping bag all go in as one unit. The webbing goes in pockets on the side. Works great and is

[hammock engineer]

.....wicked fast for me. I tried my sleeping clothes and jacket, but I like wearing them until the last minute in the morning and like easier axcess to them.

[BillyBob58]

35* solo weights
Claytor No Net with straps 22 ozs
CCF pad ( needed for ground anyway) 14 to 19 ozs
Down or synthetic top quilt 20 ozs
warm clothing with hood (for hiking/sit around camp) I have anyway ground or hammock-- 0 ozs
MacCat deluxe tarp 13 ozs ( or maybe HH Hex 19 ozs or Speer Winter 17 ozs)
stakes/lines 7 ozs

from 76 ozs-82 ozs---- 4.75 lbs to 5.435 lbs. Warm and dry and uber comfy. What's wrong with that set up? :)

Alternative for 20 degrees:
replace 19 ozs of pad and 20 oz top quilt from above with 42 ozs of Speer PeaPod: net plus 3 ozs for total 85 ozs. Or 5.3 lbs. That doesn't sound bad to me.

Alternative for 0*: Add 14 ozs of pad back in with PeaPod for 99 ozs or 6.1 lbs. Fellow back packers, Is that really so bad for 0*? You are going to have some kind of thick bag and pad to be warm at 20* on the ground aren't you? As for me, winter or not, I'm going to need a much thicker pad fro comfort and cushioning from the rocks and roots, on the ground.
.

Edit error from above! The PeaPod is not warm enough on top for 20* for most folks ( as Ed Speer says) with most hammocks. Due to air space above your body caused by the hammock sides holding the hammock above you. So I need to use my warm clothing ( BMWs PG hooded jacket ( 14 oz) and pants ( 8 oz) ) which I would have with me any way on a cold trip, or a very light summer top quilt. But, I use a more narrow hammock these days, a Claytor No Net. With this hammock, the Pea Pod drapes right down on top of me just like when on the ground, giving me well over 2.5" of loft on top in contact with my body. Which is fine for 20* with out any extra clothing than what would be needed on the ground. But, the 20* rating ON TOP- without warm clothing or a summer quilt- is only with certain hammocks.

For the Zero degree rating above, I was again referring to a more narrow hammock plus the warm clothing I would have with me anyway, which gives me at least 20* additional help when worn to bed. Or, with the narrow hammock, add a 40-45* summer top quilt.

If you did not have a narrow hammock, for 0*, you would probably have to add a 25* rated quilt on top plus your warm clothing. So, with certain wider hammocks, the weight of either a 40 or 50* rated top quilt ( used with winter clothing) or a 25* top quilt ( for down- 20-25 oz?) needs to be added to the above weights.

But, even then, we are talking using the 20* top and bottom rated (only 40-50* top rated with wide hammocks) Pea Pod at zero degrees! If you are sleeping on the ground/ice/rock/snow at 0*, under a tarp with only a 20-25* rated top quilt or bag plus pad, aren't you still going to have to add some more insulation on top as well as a more stout/heavy or multiple pads underneath? Most of us are.

[Hummingbird]

If you can make it to Trail Days, there will be many "experts" you can talk to. I am always warm in my hammock, with a few adjustments. My husband has to do a lot more to stay warm. So I think that everyone is different. Do you tend to sleep warm or cold?

Hummingbird

[Bootstrap]

I don't really sleep warm or cold, I'm pretty average.

I'm buying some Reflectix for other purposes, has anyone used Reflectix to warm up hammocks?

When and where is Trail Days?

Jonathan

[bigcranky]

is in Damascus, VA, May 16-17-18.

Reflectix works pretty well. Might want to duct-tape two piece lengthwise to get a wider pad.

[bigcranky]

The missing link:

Trail Days (http://www.traildays.us/)

[generoll]

what's 'reflectix'?

[bigcranky]

Reflectix (http://www.reflectixinc.com/).

It's basically bubble wrap inside two layers of aluminum foil. Acts as insulation. Many hikers use it for pot and freezer bag cozies for cooking, to keep your food warm after it's cooked.

Available in 25-foot rolls at your local hardware store. One roll will last a hiker a long, long time.

[Bulldawg]

Reflectix (http://www.reflectixinc.com/).

It's basically bubble wrap inside two layers of aluminum foil. Acts as insulation. Many hikers use it for pot and freezer bag cozies for cooking, to keep your food warm after it's cooked.

Available in 25-foot rolls at your local hardware store. One roll will last a hiker a long, long time.


How much is it usually?
$$$?

[Thrasher]

How much is it usually?
$$$?

$20-$30