Cooking in your tent in winter?

[earlylight]

I was talking to a mountain climber last night at the rock gym and he claimed that his winter mountaineering buddies cook on a hanging stove in their tents.

I couldn't believe this - I mean having your tent burn down around you on a mountain top or being overcome my carbon monoxide seems plain stupid.

He was adamant though, that there are hanging stoves for cooking and melting water.

Has anyone heard of stove makers who provide hanging mountaineering stoves for extreme conditions where cooking outside is not an option?

[KevinAce]

I've used my Jetboil in my tent before. The main thing obviously is to be careful (don't light it up 2" from the walls for instance), and make sure you have top ventilation. "The Complete Walker IV" has a whole chapter on cooking in your tent if you're looking for more information (not to mention 800+ pages of other useful info). I consider it the bible of backpacking.

Unfortunately, I'm still an amateur and have no answer to your question about makers of hanging mountaineering stoves.

[envirodiver]

I have seen that on documentaries, etc. about folks doing the extreme mouuntaineering climbs and such. I think I'll stick to my vestibule in inclement weather though.

[SweetAss03]

Yep, it happens. There are time when you take the risk. Is it stupid? Yep. Have I done it? Yep. Will the time come that you might do it? Yep.

SweetAss

[4eyedbuzzard]

I was talking to a mountain climber last night at the rock gym and he claimed that his winter mountaineering buddies cook on a hanging stove in their tents.

I couldn't believe this - I mean having your tent burn down around you on a mountain top or being overcome my carbon monoxide seems plain stupid.

He was adamant though, that there are hanging stoves for cooking and melting water.

Has anyone heard of stove makers who provide hanging mountaineering stoves for extreme conditions where cooking outside is not an option?

Pretty normal practice mountaineering, cliff hanging, etc. You simply can't cook or often even be outside a tent in wind and weather(or when in a hammock on a rock face), and hanging a stove has many advantages such as not having the fuel container/canister on the cold floor plus it's actually less likely to spill as it can only swing - not tip over. Lots of mfg like MSR, Jetboil, etc offer kits or climbers adapt their own. Mountaineering isn't just advanced backpacking, climbers know to provide suitable ventilation if their tent is that airtight. It's a whole different skillset from recreational backpacking as there are a lot more ways to die while mountaineering.

[Lyle]

Have done it occasionally. I usually would light my SVEA outside the tent, then bring it in once it is burning nicely. Heats a tent up real fast so getting out of the bag is much easier in very cold weather. Usually actually cook in a vestibule to avoid a mess if I spill or slop food over the side. Must use great caution and pay attention to what you are doing.

Some old winter tent designs actually included a zippered half-circle in the floor so that a portion of the tent floor could be folded back to allow a stove to be placed directly on the ground. Not sure if any manufacturers still do this.

Wouldn't rule the practice out in the future, given the right conditions.

[zelph]

If the weather is nasty or arrive back late to base camp after sundown I'll cook inside my tent. Great Idea to hang it up, think I'll try it. Have not seen such a set up used by mountaineers but a great idea.

The stove I use absorbs up to 1 ounce of fuel. Once in the stove it can't spill out. If anything should happen to it while in the hanging mode no big deal. No alcohol to spillout. It's absorbed in the stove and I'm worry free.

I'm going to google to see if I can find out more about the hanging stoves, neat idea, thanks for the subject.

.

[Summit]

I lit up and used my JetBoil last week in my tent with no problems at all. The only real dangerous part with that particular stove is when lighting. With a little practice you get to where you don't get too much gas release before hitting the igniter and thus no explosion at the start. If unsure about that part one can start it outside the tent and as soon as lit it's fine to bring it inside to cook. Have your belongings and cooking items ready to go and organized so you don't have to thrash around in the confines of the tent while your stove is going. Just keep plenty of ventilation and only do this when it's raining or extremely cold.

[Dirtygaiters]

I have a buddy who has worked with the Rocky Mountain Search and Rescue and he's found people that were shrink-wrapped inside of a tent after doing just this (they were dead, BTW). So, knowing that, I would never ever take this risk. If a tent doesn't have a vestibule, I won't take it on a trip like this, or I'll just bring enough insulated clothing to stand outside and cook.

[Dirtygaiters]

If the weather is nasty or arrive back late to base camp after sundown I'll cook inside my tent. Great Idea to hang it up, think I'll try it. Have not seen such a set up used by mountaineers but a great idea.

The stove I use absorbs up to 1 ounce of fuel. Once in the stove it can't spill out. If anything should happen to it while in the hanging mode no big deal. No alcohol to spillout. It's absorbed in the stove and I'm worry free.

I'm going to google to see if I can find out more about the hanging stoves, neat idea, thanks for the subject.

.


Worry free is a pretty messed up thing to say about a burning flame being inside of a flammable tent. Disaster-in-waiting would be a more appropriate term, I think.

[Roland]

~
Has anyone heard of stove makers who provide hanging mountaineering stoves for extreme conditions where cooking outside is not an option?

Check this (http://www.chauvinguides.com/PresiTraverse/presicookingguide.htm) out.

[Summit]

I have a buddy who has worked with the Rocky Mountain Search and Rescue and he's found people that were shrink-wrapped inside of a tent after doing just this (they were dead, BTW). So, knowing that, I would never ever take this risk. If a tent doesn't have a vestibule, I won't take it on a trip like this, or I'll just bring enough insulated clothing to stand outside and cook.Nothing wrong with being OVERLY CAUTIOUS . . . as long as you don't preach it! :D :p

[gold bond]

OK so you've cooked inside your tent now without burning down the house...you still got a problem. Now your tent smells like a resteraunt! Seating for one....one bear, one racoon, one whatever!

[Panzer1]

I can be done but isn't recommended for the type of hiking a thru hiker would do.

Panzer

[Summit]

OK so you've cooked inside your tent now without burning down the house...you still got a problem. Now your tent smells like a resteraunt! Seating for one....one bear, one racoon, one whatever!Depends on what you cook. My son and I's Mountain House dinners surely left more smell on our breaths than in our ventilated tent. So hold your breath while you sleep! :p :D

[dmax]

i don't eat or cook near my tent. too many critters around.

[gold bond]

Depends on what you cook. My son and I's Mountain House dinners surely left more smell on our breaths than in our ventilated tent. So hold your breath while you sleep! :p :D

That being said why is it recomended that you not sleep in or have in your tent the clothes that you have cooked in? can't imagine the smell of of a good helping of sweet and sour rice in the ol hooch!

[Summit]

I've hiked in grizzly country several times (Canadian Rockies and Alaska). I attended the mandatory bear precaution presentations required to get backcountry permits. The instructions were to avoid getting food only your clothing, such as wiping the food you get on your hand on your pants leg. They never advocated not to sleep in the clothes you are wearing while cooking, unless you soil them physically with food.

I was very cautious and conscious of my cooking and other hygiene while spending weeks in these habitats.

The AT? I admit I don't give black bears the same respect that I do grizzlies. I've never ever had a black bear show up in camp in 35 years on the AT. Now skunks and mice are a different story and can still keep you up all night. I don't sleep with my food. I try not to get food on my clothing. I only cook in my tent under very lousy weather conditions, conditions that tend to hold critters at bay also. 'Nuf said.

[Dirtygaiters]

Nothing wrong with being OVERLY CAUTIOUS . . . as long as you don't preach it! :D :p

I hear ya about that. But not cooking in a tent doesn't come off to me as overly cautious. It seems more like basic safety to me. If that tent starts to burn, it doesn't matter if you can get out of it and live to tell about it, the end result is you no longer have a tent.

[Summit]

I hear ya too! That's why I'm overly cautious on the rare occasions I cook in my tent . . . only when it's nasty as all get out outside the tent. ;)

[dmax]

rain storms, wind gust, possible hail? doesn't seem to me, to be the best time to try cooking in a tent. who knows what mother nature has in store for us, one minute from now.

[envirodiver]

As I said earlier the vestibule works fine for me, but to each his/her own.

In giving it some thought, I would be more scared of alcohol than other stoves, because: easy to spill the alcohol and because you can't see the flames. If you're hanging it I would think the canister stoves would be the safest, because the fuel is not liquid and therefore, much more difficult to spill.

[Summit]

Maybe I'll get the opportunity next week to try cooking in my new SD Lightning's vestibule. Last week with my son with me, I couldn't get my larger 3-man Eureka to grow a vestibule, no matter how hard I pleaded. It's a free standing dome . . . plenty of room with the JetBoil's flame, contained by the baffles on the cup, over 40 inches from the top of the tent, and even further from the sides of the tent. The scene did not feel unsafe whatsoever.

[Tipi Walter]

The way I see it, if the weather's so bad that you can't even unzip the vestibule w/o consequence, just forego the stove and eat out of your snack bag. In 12 hours the storm probably will have passed.

[shelterbuilder]

Been there, done that - mostly in the wintertime. It DOES raise the inside temperature considerably (even with front and rear ventilation, and ventilation is a MUST), but it also raises the inside humidity if you're not careful. It is NOT something to try if you are not totally familiar with the way your stove operates (ie, gas stoves tend to flare up, etc). As a matter of safety, I wouldn't recommend it: too much potential for disaster.

[Dirtygaiters]

The way I see it, if the weather's so bad that you can't even unzip the vestibule w/o consequence, just forego the stove and eat out of your snack bag. In 12 hours the storm probably will have passed.


That's a good point. Initially I think people were talking about cooking inside a tent in the wintertime, or in sub zero temperatures while mountaineering, but this has become a discussion now about "if it's lookin' bad outside", refering to rain and sleet, whatever sort of weather somebody doesn't want to brave. But that's why we bring ready to eat foods on these trips, isn't it.

[Summit]

With the older blazing gas stoves of the past I experienced the rapid heat rise as well. Not so last week with the JetBoil. That's the beauty of its design. The way the flame is contained by the heat shield built into the cup's bottom, you can hardly feel the heat above the top of the cup (before the water gets hot). We did have the leeward door of the tent completely open - following all the safety rules! :rolleyes:

[Feral Bill]

I've cooked on my SVEA in tents. Long ago. In the Whites. In deepest winter. In whiteout conditions. Probably not the stupidest thing I've done but well up a rather long list. In my defense, this was once fairly standard, and I'm still alive.

[envirodiver]

That's a good point. Initially I think people were talking about cooking inside a tent in the wintertime, or in sub zero temperatures while mountaineering, but this has become a discussion now about "if it's lookin' bad outside", refering to rain and sleet, whatever sort of weather somebody doesn't want to brave. But that's why we bring ready to eat foods on these trips, isn't it.

I think you're exagerating as bit with the "if it's looking bad outside" generalization. Do you backpack in the winter?

[Dirtygaiters]

I think you're exagerating as bit with the "if it's looking bad outside" generalization. Do you backpack in the winter?

Yes I do, but I'll admit rarely in montane conditions (i.e. lots of snow). What I meant to say with that generalization was that the focus of the thread seems to have shifted from the "if it's snowing, or otherwise sub zero/ridiculously cold" topic of whether to use a stove in a tent, to people discussing "what if it's raining and storming outside I don't want to get my raingear wet." There's definitely an argument to be made for using a stove in a tent in winter conditions, when it's very cold, but I think the argument for using a stove in a rainstorm is a lot less strong.

[Summit]

this has become a discussion now about "if it's lookin' bad outside", refering to rain and sleet, whatever sort of weather somebody doesn't want to brave. But that's why we bring ready to eat foods on these trips, isn't it.All of us veteran backpackers are quite experienced in surmising the situation at hand and acting accordingly, taking all things into consideration. I've done the skip the hot meal and opted for ready to eat foods before when the situation at the time, in my opinion, called for it. But in last weekend's case, in my situation, and in my opinion, it called for cooking a hot meal I wanted to have in a relatively safe environment. I'm not prone to take unnecessary chances. I was out in that weather bushwacking and blazing my own trail (not even on a trail) through some very rough going, then ascended 3000 ft. in as many miles to make camp at 6,000 ft. Don't patronize me about not wanting to brave the weather! :mad:

[Summit]

Was your tent completely void of food and trash and anything else that might attract a bear? I'm just wondering about whether cooking in the tent really contributed to the bear's visit, or whether it was coincidental.

[zelph]

Worry free is a pretty messed up thing to say about a burning flame being inside of a flammable tent. Disaster-in-waiting would be a more appropriate term, I think.

roland, thank you for that link, awesome site, answered all my questions.

Dirtygaiters, Thank you for thinking of me (banana here) I agree with you.

[4eyedbuzzard]

...Initially I think people were talking about cooking inside a tent in the wintertime, or in sub zero temperatures while mountaineering...

Yeah, pretty hard to compare backpacking to mountaineering when it comes to a lot of things beyond just carrying a pack. Sure they share a few similarities, but mountaineering requires a whole different mindset, and the penalties for not "getting it right" are a lot more severe than what happens on the AT. Lose a glove, lose a hand. Set your tent incorrectly, get blown off the mountain. Cooking in a tent has risks, but they can be controlled, and it's a situation where cooking outside is either impossible or presents greater risks simply due to exposure.

I'd agree though that cooking in a tent whille backpacking should be avoided unless hikers find themselves in a survival situation and understand the risk and necessary precautions.

[Dirtygaiters]

All of us veteran backpackers are quite experienced in surmising the situation at hand and acting accordingly, taking all things into consideration. I've done the skip the hot meal and opted for ready to eat foods before when the situation at the time, in my opinion, called for it. But in last weekend's case, in my situation, and in my opinion, it called for cooking a hot meal I wanted to have in a relatively safe environment. I'm not prone to take unnecessary chances. I was out in that weather bushwacking and blazing my own trail (not even on a trail) through some very rough going, then ascended 3000 ft. in as many miles to make camp at 6,000 ft. Don't patronize me about not wanting to brave the weather! :mad:

I wasn't directing any patronization at you so you need not feel offended.

[paxtelprop]

i was cooking in my vestibule during my NOLS trip, when the stove flared up. It was pretty scary seeing 4 feet flames just inches away from the delicate nylon rainfly. If the fly had been damaged, we would have had to spend many nights sleeping 6 people into 3 person tents.

[Lyle]

Just thought about adding this one additional caution to what has been said so far. Back when everyone used coated nylon rain flys over uncoated tents, the tent material was required to be flame resistant. This didn't mean that it wouldn't burn, but that it would take longer for it to ignite and sustain a burn if the heat source were removed - you had a chance to chuck the stove out the open door if a problem developed.

Silnylon is NOT flame resistant in the least. In fact, it is VERY flammable so more dangerous than other common materials. Just something to be aware of.

Your best bet is NOT to use a stove or any open flame within any tent. That is the safe, responsible thing to do. Any variation to this is a personal safety choice, and you should have all the facts before proceeding. In any case, cooking inside your tent should NOT become the norm, even in typically foul weather.

Just my $0.02 worth.

[Tennessee Viking]

I heard of a story of a hiker named Nova, and how they got the name. While cooking in their tent....flames about 10 minutes later.

Plus, you have to watch out for carbon monoxide if your cooking within small enclosure.

[Jack Tarlin]

I always make sure to carry some food that doesn't require cooking.

This accomplishes two things: It gets me fed when the weather or climate presents me from making a hot meal; it also precludes me from being so stupid as to use an open flame stove inside a tent.

[Summit]

Thanks for sharing your condescending attitude with us. We're all the better for it! :eek:

[take-a-knee]

I always make sure to carry some food that doesn't require cooking.

This accomplishes two things: It gets me fed when the weather or climate presents me from making a hot meal; it also precludes me from being so stupid as to use an open flame stove inside a tent.

I agree, stupid is as stupid does.

[saimyoji]

Hmmm...Shrink wrapped hiker. There's gotta be a market for that. :-?

[Time To Fly 97]

This is a huge advantage with tarps...providing the weather isn't so bad you have to stake it out low and wide. You can just move your ground sheet and gear back and pop your stove on the ground. It is extremely : ) well ventilated. Good stuff.

I have seen many of the hanging stoves for mountaineering - Black Diamond gear, etc. I guess if you are the type that can sleep comfortably 4000' up on a portaledge in 60 mph gusts, the cooking in the tent just isn't that scary.

Happy hiking!

TTF

[jesse]

So far all most have been warning about the very real danger of an open fire in an enclosed space, but what about bugs, and other varmints. Spilling food could create other problems, even if you do manage to not shrink wrap yourself.

[NICKTHEGREEK]

I was talking to a mountain climber last night at the rock gym and he claimed that his winter mountaineering buddies cook on a hanging stove in their tents.

I couldn't believe this - I mean having your tent burn down around you on a mountain top or being overcome my carbon monoxide seems plain stupid.

He was adamant though, that there are hanging stoves for cooking and melting water.

Has anyone heard of stove makers who provide hanging mountaineering stoves for extreme conditions where cooking outside is not an option?

Big wall climbers use them but they haul hanging platforms up to sleep/sit on.

[envirodiver]

I found an abandoned partially burned tent on Cold Mountain. Looked like the result of a stove-in-the-tent situation, but could have been a candle lantern or a candle.

Oh yeah, there was also an empty liter liquor bottle outside the tent. Hmmmm, wonder if that were a contributing factor?:-?

[Dirtygaiters]

Thanks for sharing your condescending attitude with us. We're all the better for it! :eek:

Thanks for encouraging other people to engage in dangerous activities in the backcountry. I wish I could say the same for them! :eek:

[Summit]

Thanks for encouraging other people to engage in dangerous activities in the backcountry. I wish I could say the same for them! :eek:I think if you review all my posts on this subject you will find I in no way promoted the practice, stated I've only done it on very rare occasions when the situation, in my opinion, allowed for it, so go ahead and make up stuff and yap your gums all you want! Unlike yourself, I think most people can read and draw their own conclusions. :-?

[Dirtygaiters]

Well you've got religion on your side, apparently, so how could I argue with anything that comes out of your mouth?

[ofthearth]

Thanks for sharing your condescending attitude with us. We're all the better for it! :eek:

Summit, most of the time I stay out of these things but have to agree with you on this one. Seems like the botherly love gets lost in the woods somewhere. Only sorry to see it happen with ............. well anyway don't let it get you down.:)

[Bob S]

I never have cooked in a tent (I don’t see it as a problem with an alcohol stove) but I have used a stove (Svea) in a vestibule many times, and will continue to do so. I make sure it’s open a bit so I can kick it outside and always light the stove outside and let it calm down before taking it in.

[bloodmountainman]

Well you've got religion on your side, apparently, so how could I argue with anything that comes out of your mouth?
You can't , so don't.:eek:

[Blissful]

We have cooked under the vestibule during a bad t-storm in the Whites. We also ate in our tent twice, in the Whites. We needed the hot food too because we had started becoming hypothermic setting it up in very bad conditions (at Liberty Springs). So sometimes it is necessary to go against conventional wisdom about not eating in tents.

[Heater]

I think if you review all my posts on this subject you will find I in no way promoted the practice, stated I've only done it on very rare occasions when the situation, in my opinion, allowed for it, so go ahead and make up stuff and yap your gums all you want! Unlike yourself, I think most people can read and draw their own conclusions. :-?

I think you are geting wat too wound up about this. :D

[shelterbuilder]

I believe it was Colin Fletcher who wrote that cooking in your tent was an unsafe practice and advised against it; then in the very next paragraph, he went on to list certain safety practices that HE would observe if he was cooking in his tent! ;)

In the end, you pay your money and you make you choices.

[Summit]

OK, I'm not going to argue about this forever so here goes . . .

Some are quick to throw the "stupid flag" at people. That doesn't bother me at all. I know I'm stupid in many ways without anyone having to tell me! :eek: What does bother me is the hypocrisy behind it.

I view the fact that I have, in 35 years, hundreds of nights in a tent, maybe half a dozen times cooked in my tent, as taking a well thought out, calculated risk, with that risk's benefits in view. I weight my skills, equipment, and external factors to come to a go/no go decision to do it.

We all do that very same thing in many ways. Do you snow ski (on anything other than the kiddie hill)? You weigh the risk of significant injury to the fun/thrill of doing the act and consider it worth it. You strap on quality bindings and attain the skill necessary to handle the grade of the run.

Do you scuba dive? Same risk/benefit decision.
Do you mountain climb? Do you place you life in the hands of a rope or piece of hardware in the rock? Same risk/benefit decision.
Dozens of more extreme sports - same risk/benefit decision on whether or not to do them.

I could go on and on but I've saved one example for last because some of the "stupid flag" throwers are self-confessed guilty parties to this one:

Do you, in spite of safety warnings at trailheads, "how to" books, etc. refuse to treat the water you drink out of streams? :eek: Opps! Hypocrites for calling people who take different risks than you stupid! You follow the EXACT SAME PROCESS of setting aside warnings and advice after weighing the risks/benefits (or convenience) and decide that for you the risk is acceptable.

The majority of the world most likely considers all backpackers and people who spend the night in the woods as "unacceptable risk takers!" So let's accept the fact that mountain climbers and some backpackers take risks with stoves in tents, and some of both take risks with not treating water, and many other risks we encounter in the woods. Let's accept our differences and have a big round of STUPID hugs! :D :p

[mkmangold]

So, one time at bandcamp, I cut a hole in the floor of my tent and a hole at the top, and built a logfire in the middle of the tent. Not only could I roast marshmallows, but it kept me warm all night, despite the cough. After reactivating the coals in the morning, I pulled my tongue out of my cheek and made some breakfast and coffee. Nothing like a lexan java press for caffeine AND bisphenolA first thing in the morning. mmm

[Bob S]

OK, I'm not going to argue about this forever so here goes . . .

Some are quick to throw the "stupid flag" at people. That doesn't bother me at all. I know I'm stupid in many ways without anyone having to tell me! :eek: What does bother me is the hypocrisy behind it.

I view the fact that I have, in 35 years, hundreds of nights in a tent, maybe half a dozen times cooked in my tent, as taking a well thought out, calculated risk, with that risk's benefits in view. I weight my skills, equipment, and external factors to come to a go/no go decision to do it.

We all do that very same thing in many ways. Do you snow ski (on anything other than the kiddie hill)? You weigh the risk of significant injury to the fun/thrill of doing the act and consider it worth it. You strap on quality bindings and attain the skill necessary to handle the grade of the run.

Do you scuba dive? Same risk/benefit decision.
Do you mountain climb? Do you place you life in the hands of a rope or piece of hardware in the rock? Same risk/benefit decision.
Dozens of more extreme sports - same risk/benefit decision on whether or not to do them.

I could go on and on but I've saved one example for last because some of the "stupid flag" throwers are self-confessed guilty parties to this one:

Do you, in spite of safety warnings at trailheads, "how to" books, etc. refuse to treat the water you drink out of streams? :eek: Opps! Hypocrites for calling people who take different risks than you stupid! You follow the EXACT SAME PROCESS of setting aside warnings and advice after weighing the risks/benefits (or convenience) and decide that for you the risk is acceptable.

The majority of the world most likely considers all backpackers and people who spend the night in the woods as "unacceptable risk takers!" So let's accept the fact that mountain climbers and some backpackers take risks with stoves in tents, and some of both take risks with not treating water, and many other risks we encounter in the woods. Let's accept our differences and have a big round of STUPID hugs! :D :p


Great Post

[Dirtygaiters]

Summit,
Now I understand where you're coming from, and all I can say is that it seems to me you've completely misunderstood what I wrote. I think your attacks on me are not justified and frankly make no sense in the context of this thread.

Here's what I said, to which I received the reply of don't patronize me:

"There's definitely an argument to be made for using a stove in a tent in winter conditions, when it's very cold, but I think the argument for using a stove in a rainstorm is a lot less strong."

Since this thread started talking about lighting a stove in a tent while mountaineering in the winter (look at the first post if you don't believe me!), I thought that comment was in sequence with this thread, and I still do.

Here's where I think things went amiss:
You wrote, "But in last weekend's case, in my situation, and in my opinion, it called for cooking a hot meal I wanted to have in a relatively safe environment. I'm not prone to take unnecessary chances. I was out in that weather bushwacking and blazing my own trail (not even on a trail) through some very rough going, then ascended 3000 ft. in as many miles to make camp at 6,000 ft. Don't patronize me about not wanting to brave the weather!"

First, when was the subject of this thread about you and your experience last weekend?? I thought we were talking about cooking in a tent during winter mountaineering. Second, I didn't patronize you. In the one time I directed a post towards you previous to you accusing me, I stated my own opinion (remember I wrote "It seems more like basic safety to me"), and I stated the anecdotal circumstance I used to arrive at that opinion. Did I overstep the bounds of politeness in that post?? I don't think I did, but maybe an explanation from you would enlighten me.

Even before that, you accused me of preaching, something I was NOT doing. To all the people taking Summit's side, you need to look at my first post to this thread and realize that Summit thinks I was preaching with that post.

Summit, your risk/benefit comment is very interesting and definitely gives me an idea of where you're coming from. Where I'm coming from is a philosophy of mountaineering that's based on measuring the risks and stacking as many cards in my favor as possible, so to speak. I avoid getting caught on an exposed rock face by monitoring the weather, I always get at least two other people for rope teams on a glacier, I don't risk my only shelter and my own safety to improper use of a camping stove, but I don't need to repeat myself there... The point is, apparently we don't have the same viewpoints on mountaineering safety. It all boils down to opinion. I've got an opinion, you've got an opinion, everybody else who has posted on this thread has an opinion too.

I think what you need to realize is that just because somebody else's opinion doesn't match your own, it doesn't mean they are trying to preach to you and convert you to their way of thinking.

[Skidsteer]

OK, I'm not going to argue about this forever so here goes . . .

Some are quick to throw the "stupid flag" at people. That doesn't bother me at all. I know I'm stupid in many ways without anyone having to tell me! :eek: What does bother me is the hypocrisy behind it.

I view the fact that I have, in 35 years, hundreds of nights in a tent, maybe half a dozen times cooked in my tent, as taking a well thought out, calculated risk, with that risk's benefits in view. I weight my skills, equipment, and external factors to come to a go/no go decision to do it.

We all do that very same thing in many ways. Do you snow ski (on anything other than the kiddie hill)? You weigh the risk of significant injury to the fun/thrill of doing the act and consider it worth it. You strap on quality bindings and attain the skill necessary to handle the grade of the run.

Do you scuba dive? Same risk/benefit decision.
Do you mountain climb? Do you place you life in the hands of a rope or piece of hardware in the rock? Same risk/benefit decision.
Dozens of more extreme sports - same risk/benefit decision on whether or not to do them.

I could go on and on but I've saved one example for last because some of the "stupid flag" throwers are self-confessed guilty parties to this one:

Do you, in spite of safety warnings at trailheads, "how to" books, etc. refuse to treat the water you drink out of streams? :eek: Opps! Hypocrites for calling people who take different risks than you stupid! You follow the EXACT SAME PROCESS of setting aside warnings and advice after weighing the risks/benefits (or convenience) and decide that for you the risk is acceptable.

The majority of the world most likely considers all backpackers and people who spend the night in the woods as "unacceptable risk takers!" So let's accept the fact that mountain climbers and some backpackers take risks with stoves in tents, and some of both take risks with not treating water, and many other risks we encounter in the woods. Let's accept our differences and have a big round of STUPID hugs! :D :p

You could probably make a case that there are two kinds of hikers: Those that have cooked in their tents, and those that will. Nobody is particularly happy about it.

What is stupid, if anything, is recommending the practice as safe to relative strangers on a internet hiking site.

[weary]

In 30 years of winter hiking, my rule was always to stop early enough to gather fire wood, dig a hole through the snow, and build a big fire. You haven't lived until you have cooked supper on an open fire in a snow storm, while seated surrounded by four feet of snow.

Anyway. That was our rule during our several winter trips a year, a few just overnight -- but most for at least two nights, many for three nights, occasionally for a week.

Weary

[Summit]

You could probably make a case that there are two kinds of hikers: Those that have cooked in their tents, and those that will. Nobody is particularly happy about it.

What is stupid, if anything, is recommending the practice as safe to relative strangers on a internet hiking site.Please cite where I or anyone else said that. I don't see it. The closest I came was "only do this when it's raining or extremely cold." Maybe I should have emphasized "raining" as in flooding, raining cats and dogs, but my thought and intent was when raining significantly more than a light drizzle! I later clarified that with "That's why I'm overly cautious on the rare occasions I cook in my tent . . . only when it's nasty as all get out outside the tent." :)

[fiddlehead]

Don't know, must be missing something here.
Maybe a mega-mid is not considered a tent (it has no floor)
But on our Pyrenees hike in '99, it rained a lot on that hike and we cooked inside our mega-mid almost every night. (or at least almost every night that we camped in France as Spain was much drier) Here's one of the few pictures i have of us after dinner: http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg201/fiddleheadpa/IMG_0003.jpg

Once again, sorry for the huge picture. I've asked advice on whiteblaze a few times on how to make them smaller but haven't gotten any answers that worked yet.

Ok, back to the thread: I now have a sil-shelter (Integral designs) and also cook in that. I do put both of these shelters up with a few inches of ventilation underneath. I use a Pocket Rocket stove (i used to use GAZ as seen in the picture before Pocket Rocket's came out) and have never dumped my stove in the tent or outside for that matter. (my food is too important to me)

That being said, for those who do not know me, i also: drink the water, sleep with my food, hike in the snow in running shoes and don't badmouth those who do it their way. (as far as i can remember anyway)

But it seems to me there's a lot of "stupid" talking going on here about something that i've done probably a hundred times. (should i take that as a hint?)

by the way, we slept 2 in that tent but Puff would come in for eating and playing guitar and talk when it was raining.

one more thing(or two) , as there might be comments on the wine bottle and cans of food in the pic, we were near a town when this particular pic was taken, but this was a very typical night for us. The Pyrenees is an excellent .hike by the way

[Dirtygaiters]

I wouldn't consider a floorless pyramid or tarp shelter the same as a tent with regards to cooking inside of one. It's flammable, yes, but won't trap you inside if it catches on fire like a tent will.

[Summit]

Dirtygaiters,

I re-read yours and my interactions. The comment about "don't preach" was followed by a big smile and tongue out. In other words, I was teasing. There was absolutely no conflict in my mind at that point.

Later you said "somebody doesn't want to brave (weather)" which to me inferred the instance that I related cooking in the tent in Shining Rock Wilderness was a sissy cop out. It sounded addressed at me and patronizing. Maybe you didn't direct it at me. You said it wasn't and I moved on, interacting with other posters.

Then you did attack with "Thanks for encouraging other people to engage in dangerous activities in the backcountry." I called you to point out where I encouraged dangerous activities, to which you threw the good ol' "Well you've got religion on your side" flag. At that point it became personal but I completely overlooked that comment, as I'm quite used to those sorts of quips. It seems non-Christians think Christians, by virtue of their beliefs, have no right to engage in heated discussions. :rolleyes:

But you know, you're cool in my book and I harbor no animosity against you. And to echo what you said, I better understand where you're coming from too! ;)

[Dirtygaiters]

You have a Biblical verse in your signature and your avatar is a picture of Jesus. If you don't know why I threw out the religion remark, which I now regret doing, that's why. Similar to what you did also, I assumed that your remark "thanks for sharing your condescending attitude" was directed at me. Since I didn't feel like I had condescended, and since I was sure you were continuing on your "he's patronizing me" bent, I replied sarcastically. I now see that it wasn't necessarily directed at me, though I'm not sure who you were directing it at if not me...

[Summit]

You have a Biblical verse in your signature and your avatar is a picture of Jesus. If you don't know why I threw out the religion remark, which I now regret doing, that's why. Similar to what you did also, I assumed that your remark "thanks for sharing your condescending attitude" was directed at me. Since I didn't feel like I had condescended, and since I was sure you were continuing on your "he's patronizing me" bent, I replied sarcastically. I now see that it wasn't necessarily directed at me, though I'm not sure who you were directing it at if not me...I thought I had quoted Jack (Harlin) but my "condescending" comment was at his remark above mine. Seems we've had misunderstandings galore and I apologize for that. I'm very aware that I brand myself as a Christian, and with that I expect to get attacked now and then. I do not flaunt it, as some might conclude, but I do it because I am not ashamed of the gospel (Rom 1:16) and we all live, breath and exude what is most important to us, and that is of the very most importance to me. We are called to "let our light shine before others." (Matt 5:16) May we share peace together.

[Jack Tarlin]

Good Lord, timely Bible quotes have nothing to do with this discussion.

All I said, Summit, was that using an open flame stove in a flammable tent wasn't very smart.

Yup, I said it was stupid, and easily avoidable.

You called my comments "condescending."

Um, nope. They were merely true.

Firing up a stove in a tent is a patently foolish thing to do.....unless, of course, you WANT to meet God.

In that case, carry on.

[Summit]

Firing up a stove in a tent is a patently foolish thing to do.....unless, of course, you WANT to meet God.Looks like you completely failed to take my message to heart. In that case I'll respond: Ignoring safety warnings not to treat your water is a patently foolish thing to do.....unless, of course, you WANT to meet God. What you're saying is the risks Jack takes are smart and prudent, but the risks others take are "patently foolish," no "stupid."

(I may have mixed you up with someone else who doesn't treat their water. If that is the case, then substitute other risks you decide to take as an example - we all take risks of one type or another)

I'm not trying to make a case for routinely cooking in your tent. I am saying that on the occasion when people choose to do that, people with lots of experience, skill, and the right equipment, they are assessing a risk, making a choice, and executing. You have obviously done that with drinking water, Jack. So what's different about your choice to throw caution to the wind there, every day you hike, whereas someone may once in a blue moon cook in a tent after assessing the risk/benefits and taking that course? Might we categorize that as Jack imposing Jack's values on others? :) :p

[Summit]

Good Lord, timely Bible quotes have nothing to do with this discussion.They have plenty to do with explaining my avatar and quote to Dirtygaiters. Thanks for inquiring though. ;)

[mudhead]

You could probably make a case that there are two kinds of hikers: Those that have cooked in their tents, and those that will. Nobody is particularly happy about it.

What is stupid, if anything, is recommending the practice as safe to relative strangers on a internet hiking site.

And the winner of post of the day goes to...

[fiddlehead]

You could probably make a case that there are two kinds of hikers: Those that have cooked in their tents, and those that will. Nobody is particularly happy about it.

What is stupid, if anything, is recommending the practice as safe to relative strangers on a internet hiking site.

If it's raining, and i have a tent that i feel i can safely cook in, i'm plenty happy about it. (much happier probably than the poor guy who is sitting out in the rain cooking)

[Summit]

If it's raining, and i have a tent that i feel i can safely cook in, i'm plenty happy about it. (much happier probably than the poor guy who is sitting out in the rain cooking)Exactly! But only if you're not a complete klutz who routinely sets everything they touch on fire! :D :p

[Bob S]

Exactly! But only if you're not a complete klutz who routinely sets everything they touch on fire! :D :p

You are right.

Some people can break a crowbar in a sandbox, these people should stay home where it’s safe.

[kytrailman]

In mountaineering situations--cooking in your tent is very common. I have done so on many ocasions. Ventilation is a key factor though. And yes, there are hanging stoves that mountaineers use for melting snow.

[NICKTHEGREEK]

http://www.honedesign.com/sites/walrusgear/main_tarp_lanai.html

Found a picture of the Walrus tent lanai that makes the cook in your tent issue fairly moot, although not Moe Larry and Curly goes camping proof.

[Heater]

Once again, sorry for the huge picture. I've asked advice on whiteblaze a few times on how to make them smaller but haven't gotten any answers that worked yet.


just use M$ Paint. Very easy. Then save it to a server and insert the image.

[Lyle]

just use M$ Paint. Very easy. Then save it to a server and insert the image.

Think he might be looking for step by step directions. That would me my guess. I'm not familiar with MS Paint, so someone else can maybe give em. :D

[Chef2000]

I dont think I have ever cooked in my tent. However most tents I own have a vestibule area of some kind. The current tent I have been using for 3 years, NalloGT2, from Hilleberg has a spacious vestibule with plenty of ventilation, great for cooking which I do all the time.

[Heater]

just use M$ Paint. Very easy. Then save it to a server and insert the image.

Or get a free photobucket account and rezie it using the tools provided with by them. Like this.

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh266/Austexs/IMG_0003.jpg?t=1208443288

[Summit]

http://www.honedesign.com/sites/walrusgear/main_tarp_lanai.html

Found a picture of the Walrus tent lanai that makes the cook in your tent issue fairly moot, although not Moe Larry and Curly goes camping proof.I think one of the issues that hasn't been expounded upon much is, OK I know how to light and operate my stove safely in a limited, tent enclosed space, but what if that pocket rocket, JetBoil, etc. suddenly flips out and shoots up a four foot flame. In that case, even the above tent/tarp would be in danger. It goes back to assessing risks and making your decision based on the risk/benefits probabilities of something like that happening. We do it all the time, everyday . . . like driving a car . . . we all know (or should) the tremendous risk we take driving head-on, a few feet to the side, of oncoming cars. But we take that risk everyday because we decide the added mobility is worth the risk. No different than the great way fiddlehead described it:
If it's raining, and i have a tent that i feel i can safely cook in, i'm plenty happy about it. (much happier probably than the poor guy who is sitting out in the rain cooking)

[Summit]

Also would not recommend even thinking of attempting using a stove in some of the very small, solo tents (cocoons). The only tents I've attempted cooking in were 3-man domes with either just myself or one other person in it, and the distance between the flame and tent material was at least 3 feet.

[Panzer1]

Or get a free photobucket account and rezie it using the tools provided with by them. Like this.

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh266/Austexs/IMG_0003.jpg?t=1208443288

You probably could cook in this tent and get away with it because the door runs all the way up to the top of the tent and is full width at the bottom and also there is no floor. It seems to have very good ventilation.

I'm not sure if co gas will rise or sink but in either case it looks like it can escape from this particular tent.

However, I have never cooked in my tent and never will and do not recommend that anyone else cook in their tent either.

When the weather gets too bad to cook outside I try to have dried food that does not need any cooking to fall back on.

Panzer

[Panzer1]

Carbon monoxide poisoning occurs after the inhalation of carbon monoxide (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_monoxide) gas. Carbon monoxide (CO) is a product of combustion of organic matter under conditions of restricted oxygen supply, which prevents complete oxidation to carbon dioxide (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide) (CO2). Carbon monoxide is colorless, odorless, tasteless, and non-irritating, making it difficult for people to detect.
Carbon monoxide is a significantly toxic gas with poisoning being the most common type of fatal poisoning in many countries.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_monoxide_poisoning#cite_note-Toxicology2002-omaye-0) Symptoms of mild poisoning include headaches, vertigo, and flu-like (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flu) effects; larger exposures can lead to significant toxicity of the central nervous system (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_nervous_system) and heart (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart). Following poisoning, long-term sequelae (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sequela) often occur. Carbon monoxide can also have severe effects on the fetus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetus) of a pregnant woman.
The mechanisms by which carbon monoxide produces toxic effects are not yet fully understood, but hemoglobin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemoglobin), myoglobin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myoglobin), and mitochondrial cytochrome oxidase (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cytochrome_oxidase) are thought to be compromised. Treatment largely consists of administering 100% oxygen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen) or hyperbaric oxygen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbaric_oxygen) therapy, although the optimum treatment remains controversial.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_monoxide_poisoning#cite_note-ToxicolRev2005-buckley-1) Domestic carbon monoxide poisoning can be prevented by the use of household carbon monoxide detectors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_monoxide_detector).

[JAK]

Cooking in the rain is another good option.

[whitefoot_hp]

Reason number 1000 why tarps are far superior to tents.

[SteveJ]

Reason number 1000 why tarps are far superior to tents.

....and the combination of hammocking and tarps is even better! ;)

[sheepdog]

If it is a nasty rainy day, you can always add water to your meal about noon. slip it between your back and your pack. Hike the rest of the day. Eat you semi warm fully hydrated meal in your dry tent.

[Bob S]

And I’m sure anyone could come up with just as many reasons why tents are better then tarps.



Just use what you like.

[Summit]

Carbon monoxide poisoning occurs after the inhalation of carbon monoxide (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_monoxide) gas. Carbon monoxide (CO) is a product of combustion of organic matter under conditions of restricted oxygen supply, which prevents complete oxidation to carbon dioxide (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide) (CO2). Carbon monoxide is colorless, odorless, tasteless, and non-irritating, making it difficult for people to detect.
Carbon monoxide is a significantly toxic gas with poisoning being the most common type of fatal poisoning in many countries.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_monoxide_poisoning#cite_note-Toxicology2002-omaye-0) Symptoms of mild poisoning include headaches, vertigo, and flu-like (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flu) effects; larger exposures can lead to significant toxicity of the central nervous system (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_nervous_system) and heart (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart). Following poisoning, long-term sequelae (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sequela) often occur. Carbon monoxide can also have severe effects on the fetus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetus) of a pregnant woman.
The mechanisms by which carbon monoxide produces toxic effects are not yet fully understood, but hemoglobin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemoglobin), myoglobin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myoglobin), and mitochondrial cytochrome oxidase (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cytochrome_oxidase) are thought to be compromised. Treatment largely consists of administering 100% oxygen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen) or hyperbaric oxygen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbaric_oxygen) therapy, although the optimum treatment remains controversial.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_monoxide_poisoning#cite_note-ToxicolRev2005-buckley-1) Domestic carbon monoxide poisoning can be prevented by the use of household carbon monoxide detectors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_monoxide_detector).Nice cut-n-paste from Wiki!

That is why good ventilation is key if you tent cook as has been stated OVER and OVER and OVER! :)

[fiddlehead]

Thanks for the advice Austexs. I do use photobucket to upload my pics.
I have tried resizing them on photobucket but they always come out big on whiteblaze.

I'm involved with another forum here in Phuket, thailand and they always come out ok on that one. But here, mine always are huge.

One thing i haven't tried yet is to make them very small BEFORE i upload them to photobucket. I'll try it next time. Thanks.

sorry to hijack the thread.
As for the tent (mega-mid) in my huge picture, like i said, we cooked in it many many times. if it's raining hard, we just open the door about halfway and put the food/stove so that it is in the opening or close. That's why i said if you have the right tent, it is not a problem. (some would probably not call my mega-mid a tent as it has no floor)
Those who haven't tried no floor tents might want to experience it. They are much drier IMO and are much less harmful on the environment (you can even set up over plants/rocks/ uneven ground, etc.
Sometimes you hear the term: "bathtub floor" when describing a tent. Well, that's exactly right. those floors tend to collect any water it can and keep it in there all night.