View Full Version : katahdin issues
Captain , 2008 SOBO katahdin
The problem i am running into is planning the first week or two weeks to get out to monson, after that im confident i can gauge by my trail profile and shelter guide book when to phone home and give dates for the next mail drop , now ideally i wish to START July 1st, my greyhound ticket is will have me arriving at 7:40 pm on the 30th of june , i only wish to spend one paid night within baxter state park..however was wondering IF its possible to get dropped off at Roaring brook campground in the park and in ONE day make it to the summit for traditional pictures then make my way down the trail to the birches, then move out of the park the next day? cause looking at toppo and road maps of the park seems like i would have to stay at chimney pond campground take saddle back trail UP the mountain and then head down off the top and slog to the birches shelter, from what i SEE looks like 2 full hectic days minimum but was wondering if someone actually done it in one day before
warraghiyagey
04-18-2008, 21:43
Certainly youcould keep to your initial plan. With that said, to rush Katahdin is to rush a moment you likely will wish you'd savored. An alternative would be to not worry about another night in Baxter and book your descent night at Katahdin Stream. Soak it in. The hundred mile awaits and Monson will welcome you a day later for sure.:sun:sun
so it is possible to get from roaring brook , to chimney pond then up saddle trail , to the summit then down to the birches in one day... now that i say it like that makes more sense to do as you suggest and make my first day a leisurely 5 mles roughly to chimney pond camp.. then bright and early hit the summit and make it down possibly to hurd brook?
You might be better off by staying at Abol and carrying a light pack up Katahdin instead of your full heavy backpack.
I believe you need reservations to stay at Chimney pond.
You need reservations to stay at any campground in Baxter State Park.
You need reservations to stay at any campground in Baxter State Park.
If your a thru hiker you don't need reservation to stay at The Birches but I think that is if your a northbounder.
If your a thru hiker you don't need reservation to stay at The Birches but I think that is if your a northbounder.
I believe that's true. As a SOBO you aren't a thru-hiker yet (believe it or not, for one reason or another, a few people don't actually finish their hikes!), so you have to stay somewhere else, such as Katahdin Stream Campground.
At least those were the rules a couple of years ago...
Thanks Marta , that tells me i pretty much do have to make a scramble from chimney pond up saddle then down the trail and hoof it to hurd brook
Thanks Marta , that tells me i pretty much do have to make a scramble from chimney pond up saddle then down the trail and hoof it to hurd brook
From the base of Katahdin to Hurd Brook is not a hard walk, unless (like me) you make a hard task out of stream crossings.
The reason that only southbounders need reservations at The Birches is because if they allowed them then everyone would start saying that they are southbounders to stay for free.
bulldog49
04-19-2008, 12:39
Captain , 2008 SOBO katahdin
The problem i am running into is planning the first week or two weeks to get out to monson, after that im confident i can gauge by my trail profile and shelter guide book when to phone home and give dates for the next mail drop , now ideally i wish to START July 1st, my greyhound ticket is will have me arriving at 7:40 pm on the 30th of june , i only wish to spend one paid night within baxter state park..however was wondering IF its possible to get dropped off at Roaring brook campground in the park and in ONE day make it to the summit for traditional pictures then make my way down the trail to the birches, then move out of the park the next day? cause looking at toppo and road maps of the park seems like i would have to stay at chimney pond campground take saddle back trail UP the mountain and then head down off the top and slog to the birches shelter, from what i SEE looks like 2 full hectic days minimum but was wondering if someone actually done it in one day before
Why not spend the first night at Roaring Brook Campground and go up the Helion Taylor and over the knife edge then down to Khatadin Stream Campground in one day? That's how I plan to begin my trip.
Captain, 2008 SOBO,
Refer to your guide book, click here (http://www.baxterstateparkauthority.com/hiking/thru-hiking.html) and call Baxter State Park 207 723-5140 with any questions.
Shades of Gray, 2008 straight forward question answerer.
The reason that only southbounders need reservations at The Birches is because if they allowed them then everyone would start saying that they are southbounders to stay for free.
I don't believe the Birches are free. They charge the same as at any other campsite. The Birches are not open to southbounders mostly because there is usually plenty of room at the regular campgrounds that early in the season.
I don't understand the reluctance to pay for two nights. The last time I checked, it is only $8. It's an incredible bargain -- probably the best on the trail. Katahdin is probably the most interesting mountain east of the Mississippi. Why not spend a night exploring it a little. One could easily spend a week and still miss most of what the mountain has to offer.
Weary
hammock engineer
04-19-2008, 15:16
Captain , 2008 SOBO katahdin
The problem i am running into is planning the first week or two weeks to get out to monson, after that im confident i can gauge by my trail profile and shelter guide book when to phone home and give dates for the next mail drop , now ideally i wish to START July 1st, my greyhound ticket is will have me arriving at 7:40 pm on the 30th of june , i only wish to spend one paid night within baxter state park..however was wondering IF its possible to get dropped off at Roaring brook campground in the park and in ONE day make it to the summit for traditional pictures then make my way down the trail to the birches, then move out of the park the next day? cause looking at toppo and road maps of the park seems like i would have to stay at chimney pond campground take saddle back trail UP the mountain and then head down off the top and slog to the birches shelter, from what i SEE looks like 2 full hectic days minimum but was wondering if someone actually done it in one day before
I just saw you are from Cincy. I hiked Southbound last year and will be willing to go over this stuff with you. PM me if you are interested.
hammock engineer
04-19-2008, 15:17
BSP really needs to start treating southbounders like all other long distance hikers and not like all the car campers. But that is just my opinion.
Blissful
04-19-2008, 16:26
I believe that's true. As a SOBO you aren't a thru-hiker yet (believe it or not, for one reason or another, a few people don't actually finish their hikes!), so you have to stay somewhere else, such as Katahdin Stream Campground.
At least those were the rules a couple of years ago...
I think unless you have hike 100 miles on the AT (but check on this reg.). A couple (Toesocks) stayed with us at the Birches, had not done the 100 mile wilderness, but hiked a good chunk of the AT and they were allowed to stay there. Maybe 100 miles in Maine. (?)
Don't understand why one would want to pay $12 for a spot at the Birches, when for $18 you can get your own site in the campground. Two can stay cheaper in the regular campground.
katagious
04-19-2008, 18:44
I think unless you have hike 100 miles on the AT (but check on this reg.). A couple (Toesocks) stayed with us at the Birches, had not done the 100 mile wilderness, but hiked a good chunk of the AT and they were allowed to stay there. Maybe 100 miles in Maine. (?)
They make exceptions for flipfloppers (?) If he hiked to Gorham and thought he would run out of time, he could head to Baxter and start hiking south. In those type of situations they will let you stay in the birches.
Why not spend the first night at Roaring Brook Campground and go up the Helion Taylor and over the knife edge then down to Khatadin Stream Campground in one day? That's how I plan to begin my trip.
becuase im afraid of heights and trying to minimize the " oh crap what did i get myself into" factor on the first day
becuase im afraid of heights and trying to minimize the " oh crap what did i get myself into" factor on the first day
Then you should avoid the Knifedge. Cathedral also. Do not allow yourself to be bullied into doing something you are uncomfortable with.
Consider Hunt Trail up and down. There are a couple of spots that are no big deal, but they will seem squirrely seeing them for the first time from the uphill side.
Hunt Trail is fun, you pop out of the trees, and think "yikes," but it is reasonable. You will use your hands some, but you don't have to look over the edge, so to speak.
so one wouldn't reccomend the saddle back trail?
becuase im afraid of heights and trying to minimize the " oh crap what did i get myself into" factor on the first day
Then relax and spend two nights, or more, in Baxter.
Wise people would spend a night at Roaring Brook, so they could see the multiple moose playing at dusk at Sandy Stream Pond. One at Chimney Pond, and the trail to blueberry knoll, and it's great wall leading to the tableland -- virtually perpendicular -- though I climbed it one winter a long time ago with crampons, ice axe, and a screwed up courage..
And, of course, a third at Katahdin Stream. Life is short. Trail time even shorter. So make the most of wherever you happen to be. Six months on the trail should not be wasted in a furtive attempt at qualifying for a 2000 miler rocker -- especially since whatever you report, ATC will give you the rocker anyway.
Christ. They gave me an honorary life membership, just on the rumor that I had saved 400,000 acres of Maine wildlands for hikers. They're not going to question your attempt at a south bound hike for messing around Baxter a couple of extra days.
Weary
so one wouldn't reccomend the saddle back trail?
The Saddle Trail is a piece of cake. It's steep. but thousands do it every year and almost no one gets hurt. My five-year-old, along with his brother, 6, and sister 8, made it down the Saddle.
But the easiest -- and longest -- trail to the summit is Hamlin Ridge. That's the trail my wife, I, and three kids, took almost 40 years ago in hopes of not alerting a ranger that we were violating park rules. (i.e. no one below the age of six should venture above timberline.) Kids love the Saddle Trail scramble. Some adults get squeamish. But they quickly get over it.
Weary
bulldog49
04-19-2008, 21:51
Then you should avoid the Knifedge. Cathedral also. Do not allow yourself to be bullied into doing something you are uncomfortable with.
Consider Hunt Trail up and down. There are a couple of spots that are no big deal, but they will seem squirrely seeing them for the first time from the uphill side.
Hunt Trail is fun, you pop out of the trees, and think "yikes," but it is reasonable. You will use your hands some, but you don't have to look over the edge, so to speak.
How was my recommendation, question actually, bullying and your's not? :confused:
i love how helpful everyone is being next question if i wear a marine corp drill instructor hat am i asking for a beating? thats the kind of hat i want cuase it has a flat wide brim all around to help my bug head net work better
Two nights in the Park make sense for a couple reasons.
No matter what trail you take up the mountain, it will be a long day. As such, you will want to get an early start. What better way to get an early start than to wake up in the park? On a map the campgrounds look like a short drive from the gate. On Baxter roads at Baxter speeds, the drive takes longer than you think. When you come off the mountain, few would have energy to hike farther.
On a map, a start up the mountain from Roaring Brook looks very attractive. There is also a bunkhouse there, so your chances of getting a reservation may be better. Or walk in a bit on the first day to Chimney Pond if you can get a reservation there and want to stay a a really pretty place (apart from the people). The walking distance between the two places wont have much impact on your next day, however.
The downside of starting that way is carrying you pack over the mountain, especially since it will be rather heavy to get you south to Monson. At 23 you will have the strength, but don't underestimate the chance you might bang, twist or pull something that could mess up you plans. Once you get up to the top of the mountain, you are walking down no matter what your body tells you. Climbing up from Katahdin Stream CG without a pack cuts the chance of injury down big time, I think.
As for scary heights, there is only one short stretch coming off the tableland (Its as wide and flat as an airport up there) that will likely make your heart pump going south. It looks like you will be climbing down a 90* slope. Not true, though. Just an optical illusion. And its only a short stretch.
Anyway you do it, I think 2 nights in the park would be best, though.
orangebug
04-20-2008, 08:01
i love how helpful everyone is being next question if i wear a marine corp drill instructor hat am i asking for a beating? thats the kind of hat i want cuase it has a flat wide brim all around to help my bug head net work betterAs long as you don't snivel, that probably would be a pretty good fashion statement.
yes right , i was also planning on taking the marine corp. emblem off and put an AT symbol pin there or something. one idea i have played with is just starting at hurd brook going south then returning in the spring to finish the 20 mile stretch from hurd brook to summit however i just dont think i would feel right doing that.. knowing i didnt hike 2,175 but 2,155 maybe thats lame i dont know
grizzlyadam
04-20-2008, 09:04
i've been to baxter twice and twice i've hiked up and over katahdin in a day.
the first time (http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=49258) hiked from roaring brook campground to chimney pond, up hamlin ridge trail, up saddle trail and down the hunt trail to katahdin stream campground. i was carrying a full pack (30something pounds) and was exhausted by the time i reached katahdin stream campground.
the second time (http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?trailname=2626) i hiked from roaring brook campground up the helon trail to pamona peak, across the knife edge, down the hunt trail to katahdin stream campground, out the blueberry ledges trail to abol bridge. i was fortunate enough to have a ranger at roaring brook offer to loan me a daypack and shuttle my full back around to KSC so that it would be waiting for me when i got to the other side. this made all the difference.
just know that if you call the baxter park headquarters to make campsite reservations and tell them that you want to hike from roaring brook up and over katahdin to the other side, they will try to discourage you (http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=82121) and tell you it's not a good idea.
so, to answer your original question- yes. it is doable. but, i would recommend what others have stated and split it up into two days. stay in roaring brook the first night and katahdin stream the second. no sense in pushing yourself the first day. take your time. enjoy your hike.
thanks grizzly appreciate the post
How was my recommendation, question actually, bullying and your's not? :confused:
Did not think your response was, or mine either.
Fear of heights, can be a big deal. Exposure can make one freeze up. Hiking should be fun, with minimal head spinning.
I have seen people belittle others for being fearful of the Knifedge. No need of that.
random idea , i know exposure is in its self daunting..yeah i know.. but has Baxter officials thought of setting a anchored safety rope along the knife edge that perhaps one could clip into? again i know it wouldn't help with the "exposure" factor at all but sure would calm me down a bunch
Lone Wolf
04-20-2008, 09:45
random idea , i know exposure is in its self daunting..yeah i know.. but has Baxter officials thought of setting a anchored safety rope along the knife edge that perhaps one could clip into? again i know it wouldn't help with the "exposure" factor at all but sure would calm me down a bunch
it ain't that dangerous :rolleyes:
Lone Wolf
04-20-2008, 09:48
if i wear a marine corp drill instructor hat am i asking for a beating?
yes and it's a Marine Corps campaign cover not a hat
http://www.mcrdpi.usmc.mil/training/units/rtr/dischool/campcvr.htm
No rope needed.
No handrail needed.
No water fountain needed.
The majority of it isn't even three-point.
in that case i will go the way of the Boyscouts and call it a campaign hat
saimyoji
04-20-2008, 15:29
Smokey....
warren doyle
04-20-2008, 17:24
Hitch out to Baxter State Park from Millinocket in after supper. Camp for free just outside the park boundary (gravel areas to the right). Get up early and walk a short distance to the BS gatehouse and hitch a ride to Abol CG. Leave pack at ranger's cabin. Ascend 3.8 mile Abol Trail, descend 5.2 mile Hunt Trail (AT) to Katahdin Stream CG. Hitch two miles back on the perimeter road to Abol CG to get pack. Hitch back to AT near Katahdin Stream CG. Continue south on AT. There are many beautiful spots to camp along the way.
bulldog49
04-20-2008, 18:41
I prefer to hike and camp. not spend half my time hitching rides.
warren doyle
04-20-2008, 19:25
On July 1st, I would estimate that it would take me no more than one extra hour to hitch under this plan. This hour would be made up by not having to walk at least an additional 1.2 trail miles, along with climbing/ascending Katahdin with a full pack (if ascending from the Roaring Brook side of the mountain).
I also would be saving at least $8 which could be better spent on Little Debbie products in Monson. (32 brownies would easily get me to Stratton, especially not having to wait for the ferry at the Kennebec).
On the day in question (first day), I estimate I would hike for 12-14 hours and hitch for only one hour. That's about 7-8% of the day spent hitching and 92-93% spent walking.
Appalachian Tater
04-20-2008, 19:31
I prefer to hike and camp. not spend half my time hitching rides.Yes, it is very nice to camp at the base of the mountain the night before you summit, and to have a leisurely day to cap off a five- or six-month journey, rather than to be worried about logistics of hitching rides and budgeting time or whining over a few dollars that go to support a wonderful park.
random idea , i know exposure is in its self daunting..yeah i know.. but has Baxter officials thought of setting a anchored safety rope along the knife edge that perhaps one could clip into? again i know it wouldn't help with the "exposure" factor at all but sure would calm me down a bunch
I expect they have not. Mostly because thousands of people have either haven't heard the worries about the knife edge, or have chosen to ignore the scary stories. Either way, thousands do the knife edge year after year. No one has ever fallen off. A few have fallen onto the trail and busted a bone occasionally. But that essentially is because they have never climbed and descended a ladder. If you treat the Knife
Edge as a ladder, i.e. go down facing the rocks, rather than facing away from the rocks, the Knife Edge is really a piece of cake. Everyone who has ever scrambled on rocks knows the technique. But it is so simple, most do it instinctively.
Well, anyway, I've always chosen to have something to hold on to when the surroundings are a bit scary. I don't know about you.
Weary
The walk between Abol and KStream Campgrounds, despite being a dirt road, is really very pleasant. Pretty. Views of the stream, hardwoods.
Yes, it is very nice to camp at the base of the mountain the night before you summit, and to have a leisurely day to cap off a five- or six-month journey, rather than to be worried about logistics of hitching rides and budgeting time or whining over a few dollars that go to support a wonderful park.
While what you say is all true, Little Debbie products are like a bit of heaven!:sun
The walk between Abol and KStream Campgrounds, despite being a dirt road, is really very pleasant. Pretty. Views of the stream, hardwoods.
Very true. And as a bonus, you may see evidence of a 35-year-old fire, that many said would destroy the park, but which, much as I had expected, somehow has recovered. Most visitors today rarely notice the remains of the big fire. If you get bored on your walk, look and see if you can see the evidence.
Weary
perhaps my third or fourth question in this thread is it still considered backpacking if you dont use an actual framed pack , cutting out stuff i dont really need i would be able to get everything including food down into a large school type book bag personally how I define back packing is taking all your gear in a pack ( of any sort) and you go through back country hikes several days in length , however i know there are purists out there who would shun anyone without the full "backpacker" get up and im not worried about conforming to THEIR definition but im just curious what the general census is
The only official recognition is by ATC. To become a 2000 miler, one must hike the entire AT. There is no requirement for carrying anything.
If you don't want to call yourself a 2000 miler, do as you wish, so long as you don't interfere with anyone else's hike.
Appalachian Tater
04-20-2008, 22:33
perhaps my third or fourth question in this thread is it still considered backpacking if you dont use an actual framed pack , cutting out stuff i dont really need i would be able to get everything including food down into a large school type book bag personally how I define back packing is taking all your gear in a pack ( of any sort) and you go through back country hikes several days in length , however i know there are purists out there who would shun anyone without the full "backpacker" get up and im not worried about conforming to THEIR definition but im just curious what the general census isPeople with heavy packs are jealous of people with light packs. Oddly enough, a lot of the people with heavy packs and heavy leather boots who refuse to use poles or other modern equipment are older and could benefit more from lightening up than a lot of younger hikers with 15 pound packs, trail runners, and thin socks.
certainly makes sense
So long as NOBOs don't cry about rocks upon crossing the Susquehanna River.
im all for saving weight but i just rather love a sturdy pair of leather boots
Do you have another question before I retire? By the way, I just pointed out elsewhere, I don't exist. I hope you're okay with that.
im sure there will be another question in the morning
The walk between Abol and KStream Campgrounds, despite being a dirt road, is really very pleasant. Pretty. Views of the stream, hardwoods.
Or am I thinking of the section of tote road between OJI and the Marsten Trail?
I even enjoyed the walk along the road in to Kidney Pond.
Four green leaves, and I am happy.
just when i thought this thread was singed sealed delivered A SNAG, just called baxter state park on an impulse and they said the saddle trail would be closed for likely 3 weeks.. I LEAVE IN TWO , and no knife edge is not a question is there an alternate for someone who hates heights/exposure i looked at cathedral, knife edge and was praying that saddle would be open
just when i thought this thread was singed sealed delivered A SNAG, just called baxter state park on an impulse and they said the saddle trail would be closed for likely 3 weeks.. I LEAVE IN TWO , and no knife edge is not a question is there an alternate for someone who hates heights/exposure i looked at cathedral, knife edge and was praying that saddle would be open
The easiest trail to the summit, I think, is Hamlin Ridge, which branches from the Chimney Pond Trail, just before the camp ground. Hamlin adds an extra mile or so to the walk, but there are no real difficult spots, though no trail on Katahdin will be totally comfortable for those with a fear of heights.
I don't especially like heights, but I've done all the Katahdin Trails many times. I did Hamlin Ridge with three kids, 5, 6, and 8. And a very inexperienced wife who had only rarely hiked before. No problems at all.
Weary
i heard catherdal was the shortest distance but was like walking up steep sand dunes the whole way
i heard catherdal was the shortest distance but was like walking up steep sand dunes the whole way
It's the shortest distance to the summit from Chimney POnd. But it is nothing like walking up steep sand dunes. Think walking up steep ladders.
Actually, the Cathedral is kind of fun, and pretty easy, if you have the will power to go slow. Put one foot above the other and you get to the top. Nor is it terribly exposed. On a few places you have to use your hands and arms, as well as your feet, but there is no serious worry of falling, assuming you can lift your own weight, which even I could always do.
Don't rate Katahdin trails on the basis of thru hiker comments, after walking north from Georgia. Thousands do all these trails every summer, most sheer amateurs, some who have never climbed a mountain before. Thru hikers remember trails to the south and are surprised by the steepness of a mountain a thousand feet shorter than the trails they have experienced to the south. But steepness makes for a strenuous hike, not a dangerous or particularly difficult hike.
Weary
thanks weary i will take cathedral into consideration along with the hamlin ridge
though no trail on Katahdin will be totally comfortable for those with a fear of heights.
Agree.
[QUOTE=Captain;644561]thanks weary i will take cathedral into consideration along with the hamlin ridge
Captain-You want no part of Cathedral. Knifedge probably is easier. Couple of squirrely spots on Cathedral.
You have me a little confused here. Why are you worried about the Saddle Trail? As far as I know the Saddle is not part of the AT. I could be wrong but I am looking at my map of Katahdin now and it looks like the Hunt Trail goes all the way to the peak. The Hunt Tails is part of the AT.
im arriving in Roaring Brook and that was my path up to the summit THEN down the AT but its closed
im arriving in Roaring Brook and that [Saddle Trail] was my path up to the summit THEN down the AT but its closed
Good things come to those who have patience and time to wait. Conditions change and cannot be predicted with precision in advance.
Consider taking Dudley and The Knife Edge from Chimney Pond to Baxter Peak if conditions permit. This route would be easier to negotiate were someone to shuttle your full pack to KSC.
View your 1st day as a day-hike, one you will remember the rest of your life and have fun.
I don't know if what I've mentioned will be an option for you. Listen to weary, mudhead and especially BSP staff, but consider what I have suggested. Remain flexible, consider all available options and pick the best one when you need to decide.
Since you want to start from the north side of Katahdin, I get the impression you want all the mountain has to offer in the way of a send-off. Chimney Pond, Dudley, Pamola and The Knife Edge offer most of what thru-hikers miss.
Dudley is a fine trail. But cap has height/exposure issues.
Dudley is no more exposed than the Hunt Trail, but I would not want to help some one across the Knifedge, knowing they don't like to look down and see air.
i believe im over thinking this and making the heights out worse than they really are before i even arrive as my brother told me " now look i know you dont have to prove anything to anyone but if you are serious about this you will not obsess about it and figure out a way to make it work once your there,prove your not in over your head, cause if your going to be successful you will have to adapt and overcome your best laid plans many times"
I believe what you have written to be so. One of the challenges for you to overcome will be what appears to be troubling you.
You have already made progress. The AT will finish what you have begun your 1st day whether you hike The Knife Edge or not.
Knife Edge really is a thrilling trail, and not even that hard if you're starting from Chimney Pond. Just take your time and be careful. I would not attempt it with a heavy pack, or if the weather's less than perfect.