View Full Version : Boy Scouts
steve hiker
02-01-2004, 01:48
Are they bad mostly in the summer or all year round? I mean, they have to go to school sometimes right.
screwysquirrel
02-01-2004, 02:28
Are they bad mostly in the summer or all year round? I mean, they have to go to school sometimes right.
My experience with them since 1998 has been in the Summer and sometimes in the Fall, but mostly in the Summer. If they got a good scoutmaster they're not really that bad. Though I have seen some real screamers, night owls and shelter hogs out on the AT before. But like I said it really depends on the leader of them.
eldwayno
02-01-2004, 03:13
I've gone on trips with Boy Scouts plenty of times, and yes there are the occasional troops that are lacking in the area of guidance and therefore lacking in respect of others, and so on... But there are also many scouts especially the younger ones that will look up to you and your journey. Feel free to talk to them about your experiences. It was one of these conversations when I was a Tenderfoot that led me to my first real backpacking trip at the Philmont Scout Ranch in New Mexico and I probably wouldn't have a love for backpacking without that trip. Boy Scouts aren't really that bad, talk with them, share your experiences, and if they're at all like my troop there's sure to be some extra food.
I have had less trouble out of the boy scouts than out of the people who just come out on the trail for a place to party. Most of the scouts that i have seen usually dont camp near the shelters. If the leaders are real leaders then the scouts have the respect not to invade on the privacy of others and tend to be out there for the experience of the outdoors just like anyone else. I have seen more in the spring and fall but have met quite a few troops out for there winter badges also. Just remember these young scouts are learning the woods and will probably be future thru hikers and ATC members.
Scouts are no problem, on the contray when they have shown up where I was camping I never had to get water, firewood and like it was said above they always had extra food and will invite you over. As a matter of fact the last time a group of boy scouts showed up one of the scout masters had packed a dutch oven (could not believe it when I saw it) and prepared apple cobbler and my buddy and myself were given some. It was such a treat to have this hot, sweet treat in the winter. And besides, they are learning and my hat is off to the men that will take the time to lead this countries youth in the right direction. In my book they are never a problem.
Are they bad mostly in the summer or all year round? I mean, they have to go to school sometimes right.
Actually, I have found the scouts courteous but noisy as heck. Other youth groups were worse.
On the other hand, a lot of "adult" groups were far worse with their destructive antics and drinking.
Brushy Sage
02-01-2004, 11:30
At least two boy scout troops helped in the conversion of the campground at Annapolis Rock, along the AT in Maryland. They were great with digging tools, and they truly enjoyed breaking up old fire rings that had proliferated through the forest -- gave them a chance to take rocks and throw them as far as they could. The troop leaders were extremely supportive, and they were able to get credit for the boys for their participation in the AT project. As to scouts I have met along the trail, they have always given me every courtesy, and I have enjoyed meeting them. I agree that we hikers have opportunities to influence them in positive ways.
I work with scout troop here in East Tennessee. The main complaint is one of noise. They can be loud and no matter how far we hike they are likely to stay up at night wanting to talk and horse around. We are fortunate in that our group has been willing to obey a 11:00 pm lights out and quiet time. On all sections trips I have made we have stayed out of shelters to give others the benefit. I would agree with many comments that we are training the next generation of backpackewrs and outdoor lovers. Scouts also do a lot of clean up that others have left. We require all scouts and leaders to pick up litter along the trail and pack it out for the benefit of all. I am a proud scouter and love the outdoors, working with fine young men adds to the enjoyment. Also agree with the comments to share your experiences if you meet them on the trail, and yes they do usually have more food than they can eat and will share if approached properly.
Are they bad mostly in the summer or all year round? I mean, they have to go to school sometimes right.
Are you a power of example that can help change the boys that need the kind of guidance you say they lack?
Put up or shut up!!! :banana :banana
Now this is annoying (http://www.ebaumsworld.com/peanutbutter.shtml) :banana :banana :banana
Also agree with the comments to share your experiences if you meet them on the trail, and yes they do usually have more food than they can eat and will share if approached properly.
My only experience with scouts was a bad one. On my section hike last November, Rain Man had left for me some dinner and a snickers bar at a shelter. I think it was Blue Mountain shelter. I passed a lot of people telling me it was there waiting for me, then I passed a bunch of scouts just before getting to the shelter. My dinner and snickers bar was gone. I guess the candy was too much of a temptation for them.
jgmhiker
02-01-2004, 18:09
A few years back another assistant scoutmaster and myself started a yearly weeklong hiking trip to the AT in Vermont. We took between two and six boys each year depending on their abilities and advancement during the year. They were young, energetic and always faster than us on the trails. Other than putting time limits on their hiking time between stops (so that they would not loose us) we never experienced any kind of problems on the trail. They were always very proud to be the ones chosen for the hike and thus acted with great respect for all hikers and nature they came in contact with throuhout their hike. They each split sections of tents so that they would not monopolize any shelters. They would socialize and cook at the shelters and usually collected the necessary wood for a fire if allowed.
My experiences with scouts on this type of trip has been nothing but positive. They were inquisitive and asked many questions of the thruhikers we met on the trail. Many times they shared their food and learned much from their conversations. When everyone settled down for the night, they were asleep at the same time ,if not , before everyone else.
The problem on the trail occurs when local troops use the trail for their monthly weekend camping trips. The boys have much more energy because they haven't always walked it off. They are also blowing off some steam from the week at school or elsewhere and they forget that hikers want to go to sleep before dark. This is the point where their leaders have to step in and teach trail etiquette.
Scouts that look like scouts are usually just out for a weekend trip. Scouts that look like hikers usually act like hikers.
lightfoot
02-01-2004, 18:13
Phead:
your post gives you away as trail trash. What's your 04 AT itinerary? I look forward to "bumping" into you on the trail so I can impart a small piece of wisdom I gained in becoming an eagle scout. LOSER:banana
smokymtnsteve
02-01-2004, 18:41
Lightfoot I'm Eagle class of 73..two palms.
just what part of the eagle scout wisdom can we share with pothead???
I'm always glad to work with scouting. I'm a LNT trainer.
lightfoot
02-01-2004, 19:03
1976 here. And I said impart not share. LNT? is that edward abbey of "the monkey wrench gang"?
smokymtnsteve
02-01-2004, 19:07
ok Impart, ..what part of the wisdom??
that scouts are aggressive????
I believe he may already think that.
Are they bad mostly in the summer or all year round? I mean, they have to go to school sometimes right.
other than town and trail angels, i can think of no better resupply than boy scouts. ;)
Are they bad mostly in the summer or all year round? I mean, they have to go to school sometimes right.
The scouts I have met on the trail have been almost always, good kids. I had some really good times sharing shelters with scouts during my 2000 thru-hike. At the Ensign Cowell Shelter in MD (??), some scouts made us a nice fire during a cold day.
I have heard stories of some scout groups being a bit wild on the trail, but from my experiences, I tend to think this is the exception rather than the rule. Of course, most 13-14 year olds will act their age. That is bound to irritate some folks. As a parent, I'm accustomed to being around kids.
shaggy2004
02-01-2004, 22:32
I was (and still consider myself to be) a boyscout. Our troop is located very near the trail in northeast TN and most of our backpacking trips were taken there. We, as scouts, always tried to be very courteous of other hikers. Of course there are always going to be some kids who really don't belong out there and probably don't want to be out there when it comes to scout outings. I know i've been embarassed by some of my fellow scouts because of their trail etiquette. :datz I hope this isn't looked upon as a scout problem but can be seen as an individuals unfortunate actions. I can say for certain that the scout trips on the AT are what led me into more serious backpacking and now my thru hike this year. I was always fascinated by the thru hikers we would meet at the shelters. And we always gave the shelters to the other backpackers without a second thought. Just my two cents :)
steve hiker
02-02-2004, 00:07
I've had problems with scout troops at state parks, where they'd litter and the scoutmaster wouldn't ask them to pick up their trash, and generally didn't try to keep them under control. And of course, the yelling and playing until very late at night.
I'm preparing to do the AT, and that's why I'm asking how often you see them there. Also on the AT, if I arrive at a shelter at 7:00 and a scout troop is already there, there probably won't be room for me no matter how well behaved they are. So I'd like to know in advance how often thru hikers are crowded out of shelters on the AT. And if it's mostly a summer thing in popular areas like the GSMNP and Shenandoahs, or all over.
steve hiker
02-02-2004, 00:14
Phead: your post gives you away as trail trash. What's your 04 AT itinerary? I look forward to "bumping" into you on the trail so I can impart a small piece of wisdom I gained in becoming an eagle scout. LOSER:banana
Tell you what tenderfoot, send me an email with your real name and address ......................... and I'll see what I can do. But if you don't feel like doing that, have some of this (passing the bong) and mellow out. Dude.
My eight to ten encounters with scout troops were pretty good to include them making room in the shelters. Some of the other youth groups on the other hand were pretty sketchy to the point where I would move on to avoid confrontations. It's through scouts that I got introduced to the AT in 1975 on a Bear Mt. bridge to High Point hike. Great memories of those old scout ruck sacks (still hanging in the garage) with the "cruel" shoulder straps, and of course those cans of sterno.
Uncle Wayne
02-02-2004, 04:10
I was a Scoutmaster for almost 14 years, 1986 through 2000. Whenever we did a section hike on the AT one of our rules was to leave the shelters for the other hikers. We always cleaned up the area before leaving and as several others have commented, shared our food to those in the shelter. On our first section hike on the AT, one of our scouts turned 16 and I had secretly packed in a 3 layer birthday cake, canned peaches and trick birthday candles. On a trip by the shelter to get some water, I invited the 3 section hikers to join us, of which 2 of them did. They could not believe I had packed in the cake and peaches. It wasn't easy but luckily for me on this trip his birthday was our first day on the trip so that helped considerably.
On our second section hike his birthday wasn't until the third day of our hike and keeping the cake whole was a much bigger challenge. But luckily I did it and I didn't pack in canned peaches that time. It was freeze dried ice cream instead.
I know there are some scout troops that don't act like scouts should, I've been around them. But my wife and I have been around section and thru hikers much worse than any scouts I've ever been around. It's another example of how you can't make a blanket statement and include all scouts or all section hikers or all thru hikers under that statement. Each one you meet will be different depending on several factors.
MedicineMan
02-02-2004, 06:30
I know about carrying the dutch oven! That was back in the 70's and at Cherry Gap shelter between Beauty Spot and Iron Mtn.Gap.........
Also on the AT, if I arrive at a shelter at 7:00 and a scout troop is already there, there probably won't be room for me no matter how well behaved they are. So I'd like to know in advance how often thru hikers are crowded out of shelters on the AT.
Most larger scout groups will not stay in the shelters. They usually come prepared to camp. Most of the time, if you're being "crowded out of shelters", the culprit is either your fellow thru-hikers, groups of folks out for the weekend, or the college students who hike the trail in early spring for their spring break trips.
I suggest you plan to tent early on. Particularly if you hike at a slow pace. Shelter space is never guaranteed.
Dont count on always staying in the shelters. If you start around march in ga. they will probably be full your whole way up. I wouldnt worry about the scouts. Shelters fill up rather quickly during the beginning of the year and almost all ways on weekends. The only time i really plan on using shelters is when i do winter hiking during the week. Even on weekends during the winter i have seen shelters over crowded. I always tote a tarp just in case i dont like the crowd.
mindlessmariachi
02-02-2004, 15:50
p-head - really dont worry about it.
scouts dont usually sleep in shelters anyway. they've lugged those tents all that way and they're usually pretty excited to set them up and sleep in them
I put up with a group of 26 scouts one November weekend at the Riga Lean-to in Connecticut. They were actually decent kids and stayed out of the shelter. But someone should tell the leaders that LNT means traveling with groups of 10 or fewer. One other group of 5 planning to tent near Riga had to go elsewhere.
Jack Tarlin
02-02-2004, 20:04
The vast majority of the Scouts I've encountered were polite, respectful, and well-behaved kids. I hate to hear so many unkind comments about these kids and the fine volunteers who've given up their own personal time to lead these trips.
On occasion, you'll see a group that's a little loud or lively. On VERY rare occasions, you'll see a Scout group engaged in improper, dangerous, or environmentally wrong behavior. Usually, they're well-led and well-supervised. In any case, on the rare occasions that they're not, don't blame the boys.
Lastly, there's a very simple remedy for avoiding large or boisterous groups: don't stay at shelters or established campsites where you're likely to encounter them. Larger groups are sometimes limited in their choice of campsites at the end of the day; the thru-hiker is not. There are all sorts of "problems" and complaints that involve shared communal spaces such as Trail shelters and campsites. And there's a simple answer that solves 99% of these potential problems: camp somewhere else.
My apologies to Dickens, but they can be the best of things or the worst. Coming up from Georgia quickly soured me on Boy Scouts and church groups. Clearly it was not the camper's fault, but the leaders. One Boy Scout troop I remember well as they tried to complete a 50 mile hike for their merit badge. The real problem was that their leaders tried to camp and stay away from the boys as much as possible. While the scouts were busy "improving" such things as the water source, the leaders were looking for a campsite that probably was in an adjoining county based on the distance from the leanto where the scouts set up shop. Such experiences seemed to be the case with churches where the leaders seemed to be the ones who drew the short straw last Sunday and had to go with the group.
Finishing the trip thru the Smokies seemed to have the potential for the ultimate disaster as I hiked into Davenport Gap shelter. Not only were there Boy Scouts there, but they were a church-sponsored troop. Talk about double whammy. However these Morman scouts from Idaho were nothing like the other troops. It was a small group, had a great ratio of leaders, and seemed very aware that long distance hikers valued quiet so that they could hit the sack early. They did however wake us up long after we had gone to sleep. They walked out to shuttle cars around and came back to the shelter with tubs of fresh vanilla ice cream amd rootbeer! What a treat.
Doc
smokymtnsteve
02-03-2004, 14:46
so it seems once again that our hiker hero and villian ..
the infamous Edward Abbey was correct.
"Christian theology: nothing so grotesque could possibly be true."
"Mormonism: Nothing so hilarious could possibly be true. Or all bad."
the words of Edward Abbey...
I'm preparing to do the AT, and that's why I'm asking how often you see them there. Also on the AT, if I arrive at a shelter at 7:00 and a scout troop is already there, there probably won't be room for me no matter how well behaved they are. So I'd like to know in advance how often thru hikers are crowded out of shelters on the AT. And if it's mostly a summer thing in popular areas like the GSMNP and Shenandoahs, or all over.
First, let's talk about "my" problem with what you said - which may be simple misunderstanding on my part - I hope.
Any expectation on your part that there will be room in "any" shelter when you come in at 7:00 is entirely misplaced. The shelters are "first-come, first-served" - for everyone. And being a thruhiker doesn't make any of us any different from the rankest beginner (or Boy Scout) on the Trail. It doesn't give any of us any special right to shelter space - or Trail Magic - or anything else.
If you're a thruhiker, it's YOUR responsibility to provide your own shelter. It's not someone else's responsibility to save you room in the shelter. Or to move out when you get there.
There's also the philosophy that in dirty weather, the shelter isn't full until everyone's in. That's a lot more problematical these days. Especially if there are 30 people at a 12 person shelter and it's pouring rain. The solution is simple - make sure you ALWAYS carry your own shelter (tarp/tent/hammock/whatever). Only damn fools rely on the "shelter system" anymore.
OTOH - I've walked in to an 8-person shelter with 2 people in it who were spread all over the place and didn't want to make room for me. Not acceptable. And not accepted either.
Finally, Scouts are kids - expect them to act like it. And do what you can to teach them. So are you gonna teach them that thruhikers are warm, caring individuals whose level of experience is to be envied and whose behavior is worth emulating? Or that thruhikers are demanding, ego-driven, spoiled brats with the temperament of a 3-year who's been told he can't have an ice cream cone? I've seen both examples on the Trail. And we each choose which one we'll be, don't we?
Think about how many of today's thruhikers were Boy Scouts - and how many of today's Boy Scouts will be future thruhikers. What kind of thruhiker do you want to teach them to be? What kind of example do you want to set for them?
Excellent succinct post by bunbun! A good reference to the sometimes poor attitude shown by some "adult" thru-hikers. I remember reading a post where one fellow referring to the AT in Vermont claimed that when it came to priority and order of preference that "Long Trail hikers mostly knew their place." Fortunately such elitist personas are not that common.
MedicineMan
02-04-2004, 06:04
Like many I started in Scouting and we purposefully took more food during thru-hiking season to treat the hikers. Last summer we ran into a group of scouts who started vacating the shelter when we came up, an innocent question told me they thought we were thru-hikers...I told them the shelter was theirs that we would 'hang-out' in back....if there is any group I would want to impress with good hiking etiquette and maners it is the young Scouts because of all 'first timers' it is they who hold the great promise to continue to love the trail and be lifelong hikers.......in my area you would be surprised to know the numbers of young scouts who revere thru-hikers........
screwysquirrel
02-06-2004, 01:07
Well, I've reading all this about the Boy Scouts and it has really perked up my interest. I've never seen a troop of Boy Scouts that behaves the way most of these Former or Current Scout Masters say they do. I bet that I have ran into at least 25 or more troops. They're especially bad in Virginia, Georgia and Penn. I wish that I could have met these so-called Angel troops that always carry extra food for hikers, never take up space in the shelters, always tent out, and don't wash their pans out in the stream or water source. I guess I've always met the badly led troops. And by the way, I do try to camp as far away from them as possible but the noise travels very far in the woods when there're up till midnight not really caring about anyone else who's out to enjoy the trail. I've have seen better mannered Rehab teen-agers who are more well behaved than the majority of Scouts.
eldwayno
02-06-2004, 01:51
I wish that I could have met these so-called Angel troops that always carry extra food for hikers, never take up space in the shelters, always tent out, and don't wash their pans out in the stream or water source.
Ok... First you say you've never met a troop that always carry extra food for hikers, most don't plan on having extra food occasionally it will happen, be prepared and bring your own food. Secondly, shelters are first come first serve, a boy scout troop has every right to a night in a shelter as you, if the shelter is full, tent or move on, if not full I'm sure they'd be more than happy to make room if you asked politely. Thirdly we are talking about boys between the ages of 10 to 18, many have very little camping experience and will occasionally make stupid decisions... aka washing dishes in the stream, they're out in the woods learning, I'm sure you've made a mistake or two, if you see this happening be nice about letting them know that they shouldn't do it and maybe go over and help them, show them the proper way to wash camp dishes. Certainly this can't be too much to ask, or perhaps we've just got another selfish, self righteous thru-hiker that thinks that because they're a thru-hiker deserve everything... including breakfast in bed.
screwysquirrel
02-06-2004, 02:09
Ok... First you say you've never met a troop that always carry extra food for hikers, most don't plan on having extra food occasionally it will happen, be prepared and bring your own food. Secondly, shelters are first come first serve, a boy scout troop has every right to a night in a shelter as you, if the shelter is full, tent or move on, if not full I'm sure they'd be more than happy to make room if you asked politely. Thirdly we are talking about boys between the ages of 10 to 18, many have very little camping experience and will occasionally make stupid decisions... aka washing dishes in the stream, they're out in the woods learning, I'm sure you've made a mistake or two, if you see this happening be nice about letting them know that they shouldn't do it and maybe go over and help them, show them the proper way to wash camp dishes. Certainly this can't be too much to ask, or perhaps we've just got another selfish, self righteous thru-hiker that thinks that because they're a thru-hiker deserve everything... including breakfast in bed. Give me a break. That's their leaders job to tell them about how to act on the trail, for them not to wash their dishes in the stream and not to go forage wood at 9:00 or 10:00 at night. I'm not their Scout Leader. And by the way, some of the places where they were, there is a limit on how many of them are supposed to be at one campsite. I guess they need BETTER TEACHERS OR SCOUTMASTERS to show them how to act! I bring my own food, I don't need to go begging them for it. And I do move on when I see that they have consumed a whole shelter and all the campsites, if you read my first post. This is because I know what kind of noise that they will make during the night. Also where do you people get the idea that it's the section or thur-hikers responsibilty for us to teach YOUR CHARGES about the trail? And as for the comments about the "POOR ATTITUDE SHOWN BY ADULT HIKERS", isn't it the JOB of their SCOUTMASTERS to show the little kiddies how to respect others when they are out camping using up all the tent spaces, taking over the shelters and making enough racket to wake the dead? Then maybe the scoutmaster would think that he's not doing his job teaching these fine young children how to act instead of the so-called greedy thur-hiker or section-hiker who is only concerned with his self and ONLY THINKS of begging food or shelter from the innocent Boy Scouts (mislead by their thoughtless leaders). Would the scoutmaster wonder that if maybe these brats had someone that could teach them how to respect others when they are out camping, then they wouldn't have to learn this from the so called self-centered hikers? I think not from what I have seen in the last 5 or 6 years.
Blue Jay
02-06-2004, 08:58
Mr. Squirrel I have seen hundreds of Scouts. I have seen hundreds of other hikers. I have yet to see a Scout wash dishes in a stream. I have seen many hikers wash in streams, both their dishes and themselves. Hell, there is a recent poll on this very forum that clearly shows most people not only wash in streams, but defend it with great vigor. Please go easy on the Scouts. I like them. They give me food.
Are they bad mostly in the summer or all year round? I mean, they have to go to school sometimes right.
i've encountered several boy scouts troops on the trails over the last few years....never had any trouble from them.
i DID, however have an ENORMOUS EMBARASSING moment with a group of about 15 scouts in 2002....i was crossing Kimsey creek (along the Kimsey Creek trail, blue blaze trail out of Deep Gap to Standing Indian Campgrounds) as we were winding down our section hike....it was raining,...i was soaked from the 24 hours of rain,.....then S-P-L-A-S-H......i fell in..........that wasnt bad enuff............i looked up....there were about 15 boy scouts on the bank enjoying hotdogs for lunch & laffing their asses off @ me! hehehehehehehehehe! it wuz a Kodak moment! :D
(...and they didnt even offer me a hotdog!)
see ya'll UP the trail!
"Originally Posted by Pothead
I'm preparing to do the AT, and that's why I'm asking how often you see them there. Also on the AT, if I arrive at a shelter at 7:00 and a scout troop is already there, there probably won't be room for me no matter how well behaved they are. So I'd like to know in advance how often thru hikers are crowded out of shelters on the AT. And if it's mostly a summer thing in popular areas like the GSMNP and Shenandoahs, or all over."
You should never rely on shelters, especially in the summer. I personally think shelters are an anachronism. I suspect in 20 years most maintaining clubs will have stopped replacing them as they deterriorate. Since space can't be guaranteed, everyone has to carry their own shelter, making their construction somewhat silly. Far more useful for most hikers would be picnic shelters to provide protection from heavy rains while setting up tents or tarps.
When I spent a month (late July and early August) hiking Maine with a 9-year-old grandson in 1991, we never once found space in a shelter. We hiked mostly from shelter to shelter. But no matter how early we started in the morning, by the time we arrived the shelters were full. A few were scout troops and church groups. But most were camp groups. There's a thriving business in Maine of camps with no camp facilities. They just collect bus loads of kids and move them directly to the trail for a week or two.
I meet them all the time, ensconced in shelters from about noon on, playing cards and other games.
Weary
max patch
02-06-2004, 10:06
[QUOTE=weary
You should never rely on shelters, especially in the summer. I personally think shelters are an anachronism. I suspect in 20 years most maintaining clubs will have stopped replacing them as they deterriorate. Since space can't be guaranteed, everyone has to carry their own shelter, making their construction somewhat silly. Far more useful for most hikers would be picnic shelters to provide protection from heavy rains while setting up tents or tarps.
Weary[/QUOTE]
.
Weary, do you really think so? The trend here in GA is to replace the old 3 sided affairs with the huge super fancy 2 story jobs. Getting rid of the shelters and replacing them with covered picnic tables would be fine with me, although I suspect that the covered areas would turn into defacto shelters.
deeddawg
02-06-2004, 10:07
That's their leaders job [...] I guess they need BETTER TEACHERS OR SCOUTMASTERS [...] isn't it the JOB of their SCOUTMASTERS [...] (mislead by their thoughtless leaders). [...] maybe these brats had someone that could teach them [...]
Hey SS, I have an idea. Perhaps you could offer your knowledge and skills to the training staff in your Council or District? I'm sure they would welcome your vast expertise.
Or is it just easier to moan & groan on a forum instead of actually getting out there and helping kids and leaders LEARN something. I see it all the time -- a small corps of dedicated adults volunteering their time and doing the best they can while the majority are just "too busy" or some other excuse for not getting involved and volunteering their time.
I've seen lots of troops out in the woods and I suspect that sometimes people see a well-led Scouting group and don't realize that it's actually a Scouting group. So I'm not just talking about my son's troop (I'm not the Scoutmaster)
[QUOTE=weary
Weary, do you really think so? The trend here in GA is to replace the old 3 sided affairs with the huge super fancy 2 story jobs. Getting rid of the shelters and replacing them with covered picnic tables would be fine with me, although I suspect that the covered areas would turn into defacto shelters.
The fancy 2 story jobs is another reason why shelters should be an anachronism, if not already. A simple three-sided shelter fits nicely into the trail environment. Houses don't. In '93 I found several of the Georgia shelters virtually worthless anyway. The openings were too high and the overhangs too short to provide protection in blustery storms, which most spring storms tend to be.
I found Maine to have the best shelter designs of the entire trail. Now if there was a reasonable chance for summer hikers to use them, I might change my mind about shelters being obsolete.
Weary
jojo0425
02-06-2004, 12:02
My one experience with a boyscout troop was nothing less than fantastic. It was a small group (WHICH HELPS, hint hint), three boys and two adults...they were fantastic. It might had helped that me and my hiking buddies were all female, but they filtered water for us, and helped us out around camp, we shared food and stories, it was a grand time. They were from TN and our hike was from Springer to Neels back in 2002...so if you read this...Thanks guys! you are a great example for all scouts and we enjoyed meeting you on the trail from the ladies in Florida.
dje97001
03-15-2004, 21:22
Hi all, first post here. Just wanted to say that I too am an eagle, and my first exposure to thru-hiking was in something like the summer of 95? Anyway, a few of my fellow scouts (6) and three leaders went backpacking in the Presidentials. We ran into a guy about two years older than me who was on his way to Katahdin. I was fascinated and immediately awestruck. My fellow scouts showed a similar level of respect for this "kid." All I remember is that I couldn't get enough of his stories--none of us could. Keep in mind that most scouts aspire to be a certain type of person. That thru-hiker, to me, resembled that ideal role-model. He was tough, self-reliant, and determined. I admired that. It inspires me still today. If I ever get the opportunity to thru-hike, I will relish the opportunity to share my experience with any scout who is willing to, and interested in listening (if I recall correctly, our leaders were quite interested too!).
A couple other things: I think that the youngest scouts may not appreciate you as much as the slightly older (highschool-age) ones. And the truth is that scouts typically are VERY excited to set up their own tent and then sleep in it.
Hi all, first post here. Just wanted to say that I too am an eagle, and my first exposure to thru-hiking was in something like the summer of 95? Anyway, a few of my fellow scouts (6) and three leaders went backpacking in the Presidentials. We ran into a guy about two years older than me who was on his way to Katahdin. I was fascinated and immediately awestruck. My fellow scouts showed a similar level of respect for this "kid." All I remember is that I couldn't get enough of his stories--none of us could. Keep in mind that most scouts aspire to be a certain type of person. That thru-hiker, to me, resembled that ideal role-model. He was tough, self-reliant, and determined. I admired that. It inspires me still today. If I ever get the opportunity to thru-hike, I will relish the opportunity to share my experience with any scout who is willing to, and interested in listening (if I recall correctly, our leaders were quite interested too!).
A couple other things: I think that the youngest scouts may not appreciate you as much as the slightly older (highschool-age) ones. And the truth is that scouts typically are VERY excited to set up their own tent and then sleep in it.
Thanks for the post. Your thoughts match my observations when I was a Scoutmaster. Younger scouts typically act their age, which to me seems pretty normal. The first night out, they are always extra excited, and seldom can get to sleep early. This is generally cured the second night out. Mostly, they enjoy having older scouts talk to them and pay attention and help them, something that does not happen in your typical school yard.
Congratulations on your Eagle.
I think that scouts, regardless of age, adult leadership maturity level should be treated with respect - there aren't that many organizations anymore that teach what scouting does. Whenever I see one, I always help it out with anything, whether it be filtering water, setting up stoves or setting up tents. Of course, it helps that I earned my Eagle in 2000.
Besides, you have to give them some respect for splitting 15 lb tents two ways and hiking in dual burner Coleman propane stoves and dutch ovens. I know I've done it a few too many times and although the 70+ pounds is heavy (and has destroyed my pack in the process) it's wonderful to make a peach cobbler and have spaghetti and meatballs made from scratch right on the trail.
Pothead,
I just finished reading the posts on this thread and have come away with the realization that there are two kinds of people. Those who are not satisfied if there not bitchin' about somthin'. And those who pitch in and try to make a difference in a kids direction in life. Yah, that pretty sappy in todays "Eminem World", but I can help that it's true.
Scouts come with varying levels of understanding about trail etiquette. And yah, they can sometimes be a bit thoughtless, but there learning. Truth is, I'd put any 18 year old kid who's been scouting since age 10 up against any other 18 year old for maturity, thoughtfulness and self-reliance, any day of the week. And I'll bet if you come along the trail and find a group of 17-18 year old scouts you won't have much trouble. Scout leadership "can" be uneven at times, as with any large volunteer organization. Despite the best efforts of some scout leaders to scar em for life, Scouts usually turn out to be some of the best stewards of the trail and have a leg up on life.
So the next time you bunk down for a peaceful night under the stars and are woken bolt upright by the blood curdling yelp of a thoughtless young scout. Just realize that that's the future being set on the right track and lay back down comforted in the fact that that kid (if he sticks it out) won't show up on the welfare roll - diggin' into your pocket.
Now you can choose to be down on scouting and wish they weren't disturbing your precious tranquility and I can't help that you have to live with that perspective. Your probably bitchin' that you don't get enough sex and your boss isn't payin' ya what your worth. Life's tough, and bitch isn't gonna make it easier.
By the preponderance of the evidence mounted in this thread your in a clear minority. In your future thru-hikes I'd be careful bad mouthin' Scouting, their known for camp pranks and you might wake up one morning hog tied in your sleeping bad.
Pothead,
[...]
In your future thru-hikes I'd be careful bad mouthin' Scouting, their known for camp pranks and you might wake up one morning hog tied in your sleeping bad.Hang on a second while I pick myself off the floor from laughing. :D The only really good camp pranks I know are perpetrated by scouts, from one who wired up speakers down in the waste compartment of a latrine and would watch and scare people who went in to use it or completely reversing the location of everything in someone's pack or (one of my favorites) digging out another camp's mascots secured by rebar into concrete two feet below ground and turning them upside down or (my complete favorite) dribbling crumbs of a cookie all over a sleeping bag so that when you wake up at about 2 AM there are shelter mice all over you. Don't worry, your property will never be destroyed, but hog tied in your sleeping bag is the least of your worries for camp pranks.
screwysquirrel
03-18-2004, 03:42
Pothead,
I just finished reading the posts on this thread and have come away with the realization that there are two kinds of people. Those who are not satisfied if there not bitchin' about somthin'. And those who pitch in and try to make a difference in a kids direction in life. Yah, that pretty sappy in todays "Eminem World", but I can help that it's true.
Scouts come with varying levels of understanding about trail etiquette. And yah, they can sometimes be a bit thoughtless, but there learning. Truth is, I'd put any 18 year old kid who's been scouting since age 10 up against any other 18 year old for maturity, thoughtfulness and self-reliance, any day of the week. And I'll bet if you come along the trail and find a group of 17-18 year old scouts you won't have much trouble. Scout leadership "can" be uneven at times, as with any large volunteer organization. Despite the best efforts of some scout leaders to scar em for life, Scouts usually turn out to be some of the best stewards of the trail and have a leg up on life.
So the next time you bunk down for a peaceful night under the stars and are woken bolt upright by the blood curdling yelp of a thoughtless young scout. Just realize that that's the future being set on the right track and lay back down comforted in the fact that that kid (if he sticks it out) won't show up on the welfare roll - diggin' into your pocket.
Now you can choose to be down on scouting and wish they weren't disturbing your precious tranquility and I can't help that you have to live with that perspective. Your probably bitchin' that you don't get enough sex and your boss isn't payin' ya what your worth. Life's tough, and bitch isn't gonna make it easier.
By the preponderance of the evidence mounted in this thread your in a clear minority. In your future thru-hikes I'd be careful bad mouthin' Scouting, their known for camp pranks and you might wake up one morning hog tied in your sleeping bad.
No they're disturbing my tranquility because they are raising h-ll all night long and there's actually nobody there in charge who gives a sh-t about it. I'm assuming that you've never had the enjoyment of listening to them enjoying themselves while they learn how to grow up to be such great, productive and helpful citizens when they're raising h-ll in the woods. Yes I get a lot of sex from my wife except for when we're camping in the woods by the little brats who are out rampaging near us. Also my boss does pay me more than enough where I don't have to listen to such words of wisdom from you or the rude and ill-mannered so called scout troops. I also was one of those brats back in the sixties where we didn't even dare to raise h-ll like they do now. But I guess I grew up in a non-political correct era where I was punished for my actions not like now, where now you are allowed to express yourself as a little brat with no consequences for your behavior or the general respect for others. I guess I got my leg up on life by the general respect for others that was taught to me when I was a scout. By the way what Brownie troop were you in?
bearbait2k4
03-18-2004, 07:21
Wow, ask a question, but be prepared to be judged and ridiculed like there's no tomorrow.
I don't think this person really asked any of you what you think of them not wanting to be around scout groups, which is their own personal choice, how high you ranked in your scout group, how many kids you have that are currently scouts, a brief history of your merit badge accomplishments, or what your philosophy on life is. I think it's rather obvious that this person simply prefers not to camp around a bunch of kids when they are out on their hike. I can't blame them, I'd sometimes rather not either.
Some of us don't have kids, like kids, or want to be around kids almost every waking moment. It doesn't mean we're trail trash, or deserve some lecture about why we shouldn't feel that way. People are different, and this person deserves no judgement from any of you because of that.
Oh, and I thought I read in (1) some of the guidebooks, and (2) many of the shelter "rules" that groups of more than 5 were not allowed to take over a shelter? Is this incorrect?
By the way pothead, to answer your question....typically, there are quite a few scout groups out during spring breaks, and on weekends in March-May, and quite an abunance in GA-VA. They tend to die down a bit during the summer, ironically (at least from my experience), and as you head north.
Blue Jay
03-18-2004, 08:35
Screwy, I got a fix for you. You just hike longer. When I get to camp I'm sooo tired a drum circle could be right next to my tent. As long as no one steps on me I sleep like a rock. Still say I love Scouts, they always have too much food that somehow finds its way into my mouth.
smokymtnsteve
03-18-2004, 09:32
As long as no one steps on me I sleep like a rock.
me too ...HOWEVER...I have had boy scouts step on me ...it's a long story..some other time..i'm getting ready to go meet my son on the trail today.
Ramble~On
05-03-2004, 05:29
Every time I have ever taken Scouts on the AT or any other trail we have been "Scouts" about being there. We always pick up every cigarette butt and everything else that shouldn't be out there. We have never used shelters. We always step aside to let other hikers pass.
Then again.....on my 96 hike I encountered plenty of Scout groups with leaders that didn't do what I do. Don't blame the Scouts...blame the adults with the Scouts.
steve hiker
01-03-2005, 04:55
So much for Boy Scouts tenting away from shelters. I just went hiking for a few days on the North Carolina AT and a group of 9 scouts hogged the 8-person shelters 2 nights in a row. I shoulda known better after the first night and beaten them to the next shelter, but got a late start and sure enough, they were there again like a gang of thugs with a NO VACANCY sign hung out. :datz I don't think boy scout groups should be allowed to use AT shelters.
Unfortunately, these scouts are not @ fault. It was their damn leaders who exhibit no trail etiquette @ all. When I was in scouts, we used to hike the trail monthly for two-three days @ a shot. Our leaders (my father and my best friend's father) would not even let us tent near the shelters as to not disturb anyone. This is just poor leadership and ignorance by the leaders of this group. I think it depends on the leaders Steve.
TRI :sun BES
Peter Mossberg
01-03-2005, 09:48
I don't think he was being critical of scouting. The original poster simply wanted to avoid large groups of scouts.
I'm sure that most Boy Scout groups are wonderful, but that still doesn't mean I want to camp with 20 kids. or 20 adults, for that matter.
I think ALL large groups should not stay in shelters.
Lone Wolf
01-03-2005, 09:52
Aspiring thru-hikers shouldn't stay in shelters either. There's always big groups of them hogging the shelters in the beginning.
every one of my scout troop encounters have been positive,my youngest son had a great time with the scouts,one troop completey vacated the shelter for us,scouts are kinda noisy but,boys will be boys.i loved being a boy scout growing up.my youngest son is fixing to join the boy scouts.:sun neo
Butch Cassidy
01-03-2005, 10:26
I Think Lone Wolf's on to something. Ban the Thruhikers, Scouts, snorers , people who cough, get up to go to the privy and anyone with a dog. It would greatly enhance the shelter experience
Freighttrain
01-03-2005, 10:55
i love to see scouts on the AT...... they are always helpfull, always carry too much good food, usually offer up some of that good food, fun, noisey...carry lots of food,did I mention food?
steve hiker
01-03-2005, 14:42
There’s more to it than just hogging the shelters. The first night was at Carter Gap Shelter, where the old shelter is still standing, so I had space in the old one and didn’t mind them taking the new shelter. I simply walked up and asked -- is there another shelter here, and they said about 20 feet down the trail by the water. That’s all. We didn’t say anything else. The next morning after sleeping in late, they left before me and I went over to the new shelter to read the register. They started their entry by saying this strange man walked up last night and went over to "that old crap hole of a shelter" built in 1959, our shelter was built in 1998.
So in addition to putting words in my mouth that I didn’t say, including a "quote" with profanity that I didn’t use, they were bragging about their shelter being newer than mine in the same breath. Also by putting this in the register which I assume the teenage and preteen scouts read, they were teaching them to use profanity and to lie. I’m certain the entry was made by one of the 2 adult leaders, since he discussed the various years of experience of the 7 teenage and preteen scouts and named them.
But again my main point is, large groups of Scouts should not be using AT shelters. They could have split their group up into two, one starting at the south end of their hike and one at the north, so there would be space for solo hikers. Or they simply could limit the size of their groups if they intend to use the shelters.
I don't see why a solo hiker has more claim on a shelter than any individual-- whether he be part of a group or not.
Oh wait, he doesn't.
I don't see why a solo hiker has more claim on a shelter than any individual-- whether he be part of a group or not.
Oh wait, he doesn't.
Rick,
Groups should not monopolize a shelter. If are with a group, be it Scouts or a church group, or another youth group, then carry and use your own shelter.
Likewise, a solo hiker should not monopolize a shelter either. Share it with others who come along.
If Scouts are monopolizing a shelter, it's because their leaders don't know any better. But, as someone else posted, they always bring along too much food and are usually very generous about sharing.
One other point: Leave No Trace advocates group size of 10 or less. Is Scouts are educated and observing LNT, then they keep the group size to 10 or less.
Peaks,
Everyone should carry thier own shelter, IMHO. I would have no respect for any scout group that wa not prepared to tent. Likewise, I would have no respect for an experienced long-distance hker who was not prepared with his own shelter.
There is something magical about AT shelters. I see no reason why INDIVIDUALS (because even kids are individuals) who happen to be out with their Scout group should not enjoy this experience.
Fact is, these kids will probably be using AT shelters for a night or two-- far less than than your typical thru hiker.
I just don't buy the idea that a Scout group who happens upon an empty AT shelter has no right to it. Of course they should not hold any special claim on empty spaces, and of course they should abide by the customary courtesies.
Again, 6 or 8 scouts remain 6 or 8 individuals-- each with his own stories to tell. One of the things they might talk about is meeting a thru hiker. An experience that they would not have if they were camped out by themselves.
First come, first served. I know, I know-- good leaders want to set an example about offering "the best" for others. I can respect that way of thinking. But I still don't buy it in this case. Its not like they would be giving up space for a Search and Rescue team, or such. Just other individuals. Like each of thier kids.
RIck B
screwysquirrel
01-04-2005, 13:57
They should tear down all the shelters along the AT and use the areas for tenting pads. Also, they should take down all the shelters in the GSMNP and reroute the AT out of there, as to protect the fragile enviornment for the future.
Blue Jay
01-04-2005, 14:07
They should tear down all the shelters along the AT and use the areas for tenting pads. Also, they should take down all the shelters in the GSMNP and reroute the AT out of there, as to protect the fragile enviornment for the future.
Why stop there. Tear down all the houses on the eastern seaboard and use the area for launching pads. Also reroute the AT up the interstates.
RockyTrail
01-04-2005, 16:56
...They could have split their group up into two, one starting at the south end of their hike and one at the north, so there would be space for solo hikers....
JJ:
Sorry to hear about the problem, but how do you know they didn't split up into two crews, one NOBO and one SOBO? Only a group of 7, so maybe they did; I think it's commonly done for shuttle reasons. (just wondering)
Rick,
I don't know if we are saying the same thing or not, but I'll agree with your post.
Peace.
PecosBackpacker
01-06-2005, 10:49
Eagle Scout, Class of 2003. The behavior of Boy Scouts really comes down to the adult leadership within the troop. I know troops that have very loose rules and the scouts are out of control. It does irritate me but then I have to remember back when I was their age just learning about everything. I have also known troops with very involved leadership and more discipline. Please don't put a negative label on all Boy Scouts just because of one bad experience.
Eagle Scout, Class of 2003. The behavior of Boy Scouts really comes down to the adult leadership within the troop. You are exactly right! And congratulations to you on making Eagle!
Bolo
(current ASM)
deeddawg
01-06-2005, 12:22
I agree 110% with PecosBackpacker and will go one step further.
Speaking rhetorically & generally, who here takes any sort of active role in terms of offering their knowledge and skills to youth or adult leaders of ANY group? Nobody is born knowing proper outdoor etiquette, LNT principles, etc. Everyone, youth and adults included, must learn these from someone.
"Giving back to the trail" is a lot more than writing a check to the ATC every year. Get involved, volunteer your time, pass along your skills & knowledge.
Unfortunately, most find it easier to just complain on a BBS somewhere instead of doing anything to help.
BlackCloud
01-06-2005, 12:38
They should tear down all the shelters along the AT and use the areas for tenting pads. Also, they should take down all the shelters in the GSMNP and reroute the AT out of there, as to protect the fragile enviornment for the future.Protect it for whom? If no one can see it, you'll never have political support to continue protection. This argument is as old as the earliest National Parks. We still have a strong National Park system b/c your argument has been largely rejected (yet partially reborn w/ the movement twds vast wilderness areas).
As for the scouts, it comes down to the adults, period. The scouting movement, like all other semi-social groups, can only be a reflection of the society which make up its membership. You want more disciplined 13 year olds in the woods? Then support discipline in the public schools; better yet, be sure to discipline your own kids once in a while - it's good for everyone.
I'm sick of you baby boomers wanting to be your kids' best friends.......
And I'm not old & grumpy, I'm 28 & HATE nasty boy scouts (& I'm an EAGLE).
Footslogger
01-06-2005, 13:38
As for the scouts, it comes down to the adults, period. The scouting movement, like all other semi-social groups, can only be a reflection of the society which make up its membership. You want more disciplined 13 year olds in the woods? Then support discipline in the public schools; better yet, be sure to discipline your own kids once in a while - it's good for everyone.
I'm sick of you baby boomers wanting to be your kids' best friends.......
And I'm not old & grumpy, I'm 28 & HATE nasty boy scouts (& I'm an EAGLE).===============================
Well ...I'm 55 (and therefore a baby-boomer), I was an ASM for 11 and I made it to Eagle as a youth scout. I think it's interesting to hear someone in their 20's express a need for discipline among school age youth and scouts. I TOTALLY AGREE WITH IT ...I'm just surprized to hear it coming from someone of that age group. I raised 2 kids, who are now in their late 20's, and I witnessed first hand, a gradual (to near total) decline in the overall acceptance of discipline of a technique in working with young folks (in and out of scouting). Guess you might as well hate me because I did aspire to be a parent AND a friend to my kids ...and I still do.
But yeah ...the system is broken. As an ASM over those years I watched one Boy Scout troop be turned into a "drop off service" by many (not all)parents. I witnessed first hand a number of young guys who would engage in what you might call "nasty" behavior when I took them out on a hike, mainly to get attention (negative or positive) that they weren't getting at home. Any attempt to discipline those boys was met with grief and complaints from their parents once we got home.
I hung in there for years because I believe in the scouting movement and thoroughly enjoyed working with the boys and the parents who supported the adult leaders in their efforts to provide the boys with a solid and constructive experience. That said though ...I grew weary after all those years and moved away from scouting. Besides, I truly believe that the boys in general tend to relate to and cooperate with the younger adult leaders. And for the record, I never liked the nasty boy scouts either. Over my years as an ASM though, I did have the good fortune to play a small part in the turnaround of many of those nasty ones into fairly decent and respectfull individuals. That will always be a great source of personal satisfaction in return for my investment.
'Slogger
AT 2003
steve hiker
01-06-2005, 17:11
So much for Boy Scouts tenting away from shelters. I just went hiking for a few days on the North Carolina AT and a group of 9 scouts hogged the 8-person shelters 2 nights in a row. I shoulda known better after the first night and beaten them to the next shelter, but got a late start and sure enough, they were there again like a gang of thugs with a NO VACANCY sign hung out. :datz I don't think boy scout groups should be allowed to use AT shelters.
Ugh. I think I'll stay west of the Mississippi.
The Solemates
01-06-2005, 17:57
Dont even get me started....
I myself just completed my Eagle Project, and will be going for my Eagle Board of Review (the final horah) in two weeks. My brother was a class of '01 Eagle, and I will have my two friends joining me for my eagle court of honor.
Getting that out of the way, i beleive that the general thought for many people is that ultimately the leaders are responsible for the kids. Three years ago, my troop was a "standard" troop; we took short backpacking trips, often making 2-3 trips to carry all of the stoves, water bottles, propane lights (and propane tanks).
Then, partly being sick of carrying 40lbs on my back and 20lbs in my hands, we made the difficult transition to a lightweight troop. We got some nice North Face 2 person tents, junked all of the propane stoves in exchange for MSR stoves, and most importantly, began to forbid certain items from packs. Cotton was our #1 target. Some parents were kind of suprised when we said "no cotton hoodies, cotton socks, or jeans. If we find these, we will drop your kid off on the way to the trailhead". But even a $10 pair of nylon pants, and a pair or two of rag socks made a big difference in the attitude of the older scouts and leaders.
With the change in gear that we were carrying, it made a huge impact in what the scouts were doing during the day, and into the night. A five mile hike in jeans and damp cotton socks can be a big turnoff for a kid, but making it a little more comfortable made getting kids out of a campsite even easier. At night, kids would rather sleep in a tent than a shelter. While not all trips are the same, there was a certain "coolness" factor in sleeping in a nice tent.
Another big contribution that our troop made to the general well being of the outdoors was splitting up the troop for a trip. As Peaks said, LNT should mean splitting up a group to less than 10. Our troop has been able to set up hikes where there is a "base camp" hike, which may be 1-2 miles into a campsite with a day hike, perfect for those who would rather not do a more difficult backpacking hike (usually 5-8 miles with packs). The older scouts, more usually doing the longer hike, dont allienate the younger scouts, who prefer to do a day hike. At night, the groups convene for a campfire, and the trips are usually planned to avoid popular destinations for lots of people.
Getting new scouts involved with things they want to be interested in (our troop now has 11 hammockers), helps to foster a sense of responsibility and maturity. While no troop is ever perfect, having a good base of leaders and older scouts certainly helps to keep it in control.
Brian
Future Thru Hiker 2013
One of the things that impressed me most about Philmont is that the trails and campsites do not show the abuse like the AT does. About 20,000 scouts go there every year, and the back country is pristine. I seldom found sites so pristine along the AT. Scouts can do things right when properly trained.
Footslogger
01-07-2005, 20:55
One of the things that impressed me most about Philmont is that the trails and campsites do not show the abuse like the AT does. About 20,000 scouts go there every year, and the back country is pristine. I seldom found sites so pristine along the AT. Scouts can do things right when properly trained.=======================
I couldn't agree more. It's rare that you see even a small fleck of paper on the ground out there. Philmont enforces a strict LNT policy. It is not optional or voluntary. Not sure that type of influence or control could ever be exerted on the AT.
For all the scouts may do wrong ...that's one thing they seem to have gotten right.
'Slogger
AT 2003
Philmont '95, '97, '99
SiuWonfung
01-07-2005, 21:27
Philmont! sweet, i've been there, because, believe it or not, i am a boy scout (and as of November, an Eagle Scout). Philmont was Super Duper cool!
anyways, i heard on the trail oneday about this group of scouts who decided to pry huge, car sized boulers off the top of a cliff to watch them crash down the side of a mountain, exploding trees and anything that was in their paths. Haha! man that sounds fun..
but seriously, they were being very bad.
true story, i promise.
PecosBackpacker
01-09-2005, 16:31
You are exactly right! And congratulations to you on making Eagle!
Bolo
(current ASM)
Thank you. I appreciate your praises.
Rocks 'n Roots
01-09-2005, 16:44
If the AT had a land area more in line with MacKaye's original plan there would be plenty of space for boy scout-only areas with trails and large camping areas for groups over 10...
cyclocrosser
01-09-2005, 18:51
I am currently a Boy Scout about to finish eagle. I have done my fair share of backpacking with other troops and I have found that Scout disciplin comes from the scout masters. My troop is fairly quiet and have never made anyone mad at us. In fact while on a backpacking trip in the Shining Rock Wilderness Area of NC, we made friends with a man named Ty, who actually lives in the wilderness 8 months out of the year. He shared his food with us, joked, and exchanged stories with him.
Over the last summer I went backpacking in the same area and ran into him again. He rememberd exactly who I was and helped me find water that didn't need to purified and told me a great place to camp.
So what I am trying to say is be nice to Scouts, try talking to the leaders, and you may end up making some real friends.
PS: but some troops are just rude and obnoxious and diserve to be scrutinized.
[QUOTE=cyclocrosser]....So what I am trying to say is be nice to Scouts, try talking to the leaders, and you may end up making some real friends..../QUOTE]
Its hard to be nice to the BSA (not to the volunteers or the scouts) who want even mention (on the official web site) the 4 killed at the recent Virginia Jamboree, or the 300 scouts who got heat illness. The Scout presumed dead in Yellowstone, when swept away in the river or anything about all the Scouts who have gotten lost, (or still lost), just this year. Go to their web site and do searches. Go to the "ASK BOB" site and ask him, but don't expect a reply.
For the price of an official BSA shirt and pants you could buy a Garmin Etrex GPS (the yellow one), my nephew 10yrs old can operate one. Comes in handy if you "get turned around" in the woods. The most recent story http://www2.standard.net/standard/news/57653/) was about a scout gone to the woods to use the bathroom and became lost. The BSA has become just another "BIG BUSINESS" in the USA. The conscientious volunteers and scouts from all over the country deserve better and should demand better.
Rain Man
07-30-2005, 16:45
... My troop is fairly quiet and have never made anyone mad at us. ....
Well, be a little careful about making such a boast. Your troop may have made more than one person mad and you may never know it.
I remember arriving at Standing Indian Shelter just at dark one evening, with a young man from France I was taking hiking. We had just passed a sign well-posted right on the trail to limit groups to 10.
In spite of that sign, and common decency, we found the shelter packed with Boy Scouts both in the shelter and in every available tent spot around that I could see. It began to rain as we walked up. Not a single one of those Boy Scouts offered to make room for us, nor did any leader. I signed the register, said pleasant goodbyes, and hiked up Standing Indian in the rain and in the dark. You think I was mad at that Troop? You think they were clueless (as they seemed about other important things)?
On another occasion I hiked to Icewater Springs Shelter. There were nine Boy Scouts and leaders in the Shelter. Understand, the shelter officially sleeps 12. Four spots are reserved for thru-hikers. I had four spots reserved. By my count, that left four spots at most that the Boy Scouts could have possibly had reserved. In a chat that evening, I brought up the subject of reservations off-handedly, and one of the leaders said it was a good thing they had reservations for everyone in their group (9). I didn't say a word.
It was a terribly stormy night and we had 24 in that shelter.
Next day, I mentioned the reservation claim to the ridge-runner, who said the Boy Scouts were just lying about their reservations and it happened all the time.
You think I was mad at the rudeness and lack of honesty of that Troop? You think those Scouts had a clue?
In the first instance, I was content to hike on up the mountain in the dark and rain. In the second instance, I was happy to share the shelter with two dozen people, reservations or not.
But do Boy Scout Troops piss off folks on occasion with their holier-than-thou superiority and the ends-justifies-the-means attitude? You betcha. It's just a good thing that good people cut them tons of slack. Just don't be so boastful would be my advice. Humility goes a long way in overcoming the off-putting side of pride. It's a good quality to have in one's character even if your particular troop never has made anyone mad, too.
Rain:sunMan
.