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View Full Version : Am I now a "cult" member ?



Zzzzdyd
02-01-2004, 03:32
I have for health reasons along with becoming wiser in my old age, I hope, become a ultra-light backpacker this year. Didn't happen over-night btw took me a few years and a few mistakes to get under 20lbs total. Have never read Jardine and don't plan to. Love Horace Kephart though. And trying to get my own copy of his book.

I was kicked off and banned from Wingfoots site for taking issue with him about calling me and other ultra-light backpackers members of a "cult" and just about "fad" and making fun of light-weight backpacking.

I don't know what to think now ? I thought getting my pack light was a good thing. But I haven't ever been in a "cult" and do not want to be.

Would like some insight about this. Its my understanding that Wingfoot is the modern day A.T hiking guru. Is he right to call me part of a "cult" ?

Frog
02-01-2004, 08:57
I pay very little attention to wingfoot since hes made it his life to make money off the trail. All though i am glad he does some of the things he does. But i get the feeling that he thinks the trail is his and his alone.

SGT Rock
02-01-2004, 09:53
Some cult leaders want your total devotion.

Mausalot
02-01-2004, 10:25
If every step you take you're thinking "I'm so great, my gear's so light, I'm so wonderful, my gear's is wonderful and I have to tell everyone else that they are WRONG," well then, it becomes less about hiking and enjoying and more about Proselytizing. Of course the lightweight movement has been a boon to us all, but it is easy to become obsessed.

Also, Ray Jardine got almost all of his ideas from Grandma Gatewood who 1. Hiked in sneakers 2. Carried a lightweight duffle over her shoulder 3. Used a tarp or blanket if anything outdoors and 4. went extremely lightweight cause she was after all, I think 57 or so when she first thru hiked.

So trim the weight, find what works for you, and give gentle advice when asked. My .02

:dance Cameraman

http://homepage.newschool.edu/~at2k/light.htm (Short lightweight video and gear list)

SGT Rock
02-01-2004, 10:47
It has been a long time since I was on Wingfoot's site, but the last time I tried to give someone gear advice about alcohol stoves and some other lightweight ideas I was reminded that wasn't what his site was about. But when someone commented about some other piece of gear (not lightweight) there was not any mention of the fact that the forum was not about talking gear. I definatly noticed a slight bent away from letting anyone speak about how to lighten pack weight at that time. And I found this very interesting after talking to Wingfoot and hear him brag about his 32 pound total pack weight for his first AT start including his alcohol stove.

I don't endorse cutting a pack down to 8 pounds or anything like that and never did, but for a guy that used to need 65 pounds to do a weekend hike I think I can have some advise about what isn't needed or how to shed some weight using economical methods.

I also think any hiker worth their salt that is talking lightweight probaby had some miles under them and will caution anyone starting out not to throw out the baby with the bath water on their gear, just to be a little wiser in their spending and planning where they can.

smokymtnsteve
02-01-2004, 10:57
Main Entry: cult
Pronunciation: 'k&lt
Function: noun
Usage: often attributive
Etymology: French & Latin; French culte, from Latin cultus care, adoration, from colere to cultivate -- more at WHEEL
1 : formal religious veneration : WORSHIP
2 : a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents
3 : a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents
4 : a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator <health cults>
5 a : great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad b : a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion
- cul·tic /'k&l-tik/ adjective
- cult·ish /-tish/ adjective
- cult·ish·ly /-lE/ adverb
- cult·ish·ness /-n&s/ noun
- cult·ism /'k&l-"ti-z&m/ noun
- cult·ist /'k&l-tist/ noun
- cult·like /-"lIk/ adjective


I too have a lot of diasgreement with wingfoot...wingfoot desires a cult that adores HIM...but I know about wingfoot hiking the trail in white painters pants a few years ago and gratefully accepting TRAIL MAGICK!

TJ aka Teej
02-01-2004, 14:36
. Its my understanding that Wingfoot is the modern day A.T hiking guru.
Many folks who visit his web site come away thinking the same thing, Z.
It's not an opinion shared anywhere else.

A-Train
02-01-2004, 15:01
Supposedly hes hiking the Trail in 05' for his 20th anniversary

sloetoe
02-01-2004, 17:48
I don't know what to think now ? I thought getting my pack light was a good thing. But I haven't ever been in a "cult" and do not want to be.

Would like some insight about this. Its my understanding that Wingfoot is the modern day A.T hiking guru. Is he right to call me part of a "cult" ?

1) Anyone heading in the ultralight direction will be required to draw the line at what works and what doesn't. Cults have no such distinction possible.

2) Wingfoot and his tremendous personal baggage has boxed himself into being an irrelevancy. At this point, sad to say, that's not much of a loss: since the birth of my ten year old boys, they have more and varied experience than Wingfoot. (I just realizing how many miles they've traveled. Yowie!)

3) With Whiteblaze and the other web resources, you gotz *nuthin'* to worry about.

Don' worry; be happy.
'Toe

uscgretired
02-01-2004, 18:33
I recently deleted Wingfoot's sight from my computer. I thought it was a hiker information sight but after reading some of his posts I came to realize that it was his own personal political forum and the only item keeping his sight afloat was his publication "The Thru-Hikers Handbook". Whiteblaze is much more to my liking when it comes to hiking and hiker information.

weary
02-01-2004, 22:04
Grandma Gatewood, Used a tarp or blanket if anything outdoors I think actually, she used a shower curtain.

But that doesn't matter. Wise people will seek a proper balance between comfort while walking, with comfort while camping each evening.

Everyone has to seek that balance themselves. How? Read Jardine. Read long distance journals. and most importantly do some long distance hikes.

People quit because it is no longer fun. People keep hiking because they are pledged to finished regardless of the pain. A few keep hiking because they actually enjoy the experience.

My advice is to chose option 3. That was my option. I recommend it whole heartedly. I can't stand slide shows and talks that tell of the difficulty and the desire to quit. I sat through one Saturday at the annual AMC meeting.

Yeah, they were glad they finished. They just didn't enjoy the process. I can relate partially. I've taken many hikes that I've vowed to never do again. But in the middle of a six month hike, I think most folks should probably have made up their minds long since.

Life is short. Hike if it's rewarding, maybe even fun. Otherwise stop and do something more enjoyable -- or at least more useful.

Weary

MedicineMan
02-01-2004, 22:47
Just dont drink the Coolaid :)

Pringles
02-02-2004, 12:51
To speak to a different element of your post (than lightweight hiking gear or Wingfoot), you said: "Love Horace Kephart though. And trying to get my own copy of his book."

I assume you're talking about Our Southern Highlanders, though you could be speaking of his Camping and Woodcraft. I have the highlanders book, and have found it to be a wonderful description of the area, people and society of the people of the Smokeys and Bryson City before the park. A book that usually is mentioned in the same sentence with Our Southern Highlanders is Strangers in High Places. It doesn't speak to me in the same way, but others obviously enjoy it. Our Southern Highlanders is available through Amazon for about $12, as is Camping and Woodcraft. All should be available either at your library, or through interlibrary loan.

I remember seeing a picture of Horace Kephart with a chair strapped to his back. His mother was perched on the chair. He was carrying her to the top of Mt. LeConte. I guess he wasn't into ultralight hiking. :-)

Beth

bunbun
02-02-2004, 16:00
Would like some insight about this. Its my understanding that Wingfoot is the modern day A.T hiking guru. Is he right to call me part of a "cult" ?

Z - a cult requires a leader. Wingfoot ain't it.

If you find "anyone" who can lead this group to anyplace other than chaos, let me know - I'd like to meet the person who can herd this gaggle of cats. :)

Now - let's define something here - "ultralite" is when your dry pack weight is in the "14# or less" range. Between 15 and 25# is "midweight" - and, given the available gear at this time, anything over 25# classes as "heavyweight". There are those who advocate heavyweight. I'm not one of them. Nor do I advocate ultralite unless you're capable of doing your 10 or 15 or 20 miles for the day and then doing another 10 or 15 or 20 miles in order to get yourself out of a bad weather (or other) situation. Most of those who want to get their pack weight down to 10# aren't capable of that - and might well find themselves in deep kimchee sometime. There are a lot of putative "ultraliters" who either skip trail sections because of weather - or find themselves bailing out because they can't handle the weather.

Hmm - "dry pack weight" - is what your pack weighs when you get to town after you've used all your fuel, eaten all your food and finished the last swallow of water. It includes the rock your hiking partner put in your pack this morning. :)

highway
02-02-2004, 17:44
am I part of a cult?
Not until you progress to the point where you obtain a scale and start weighing all your stuff and listing each, with weight, into an ever-expanding spreadsheet..

Then, when you find yourself buying gear, weighing it and returning it just because you thought it weighed to much,....you will have arrived :D

Don't know why everyone else was so afraid to tell you :clap

Lilred
02-02-2004, 18:02
am I part of a cult?


Not until you progress to the point where you obtain a scale and start weighing all your stuff and listing each, with weight, into an ever-expanding spreadsheet..

Then, when you find yourself buying gear, weighing it and returning it just because you thought it weighed to much,....you will have arrived :D

Don't know why everyone else was so afraid to tell you :clapThat is funny. Thanks for the laugh.

Rain Man
02-03-2004, 00:38
I remember seeing a picture of Horace Kephart with a chair strapped to his back. His mother was perched on the chair. He was carrying her to the top of Mt. LeConte. I guess he wasn't into ultralight hiking. :-)

Beth,

That photo was the long-time manager of the Mt. LeConte Lodge, who's mother had never see it. That newspaper article is framed in the Mt LeConte Lodge office.

Rain Man

SGT Rock
02-03-2004, 01:59
How about if you carry your scales into the store and weigh stuff before you will buy it.

Happy
02-03-2004, 02:08
I agree with you SGT., I took my postal digital scales to an outfitter that had Western Mountaineering Bags and laid in one for 45 minutes tossing and turning ...and due to the tight fit...my WEIGHT...and being 2 ozs over advertized weight, refused to buy.

highway
02-03-2004, 09:22
How about if you carry your scales into the store and weigh stuff before you will buy it.

I wish I could. My scale is a commercial one and is to heavy (~40 pounds) and takes to long to reset and calibrate after its moved, darnnit! One day, though, I'll get a small portable one. It may not be quite as accurate but, afterall, if you're weighing something like underwear, just how accurate does one have to be, anyway???

bunbun
02-03-2004, 11:22
How about if you carry your scales into the store and weigh stuff before you will buy it.

LOL - I was doing that in 1990 - long before "ultralite" was even a word. Any backpacker with two brain cells to rub together will use weight as a major criteria for buying gear. Well - at least they will after their first trip into the woods with their 60# monster.

firefly
02-05-2004, 13:09
And I thought I was the only one who took things back because they weigh to much. The people at REI and Galyans probably think I am some kind of NUT. Hmmm..well OK the people at REI know I am a nut but I have lots of company in there :)

Tinker
02-12-2004, 18:35
I now have a bunch of "heavy" stuff that used to be "light". Used to hike with others, now prefer solo, that's part of it.

Hiking light just makes SENSE.

Tinker

SGT Rock
02-13-2004, 10:14
Places like REI should have a scale for you. The outfitter I shop at in B'ham does that.

jojo0425
02-13-2004, 11:16
I'm all for lite hiking, however, I'm not there yet. What I do dislike is the snobbery that lite hikers seems to have towards non-lite hikers. Case in point, last summer I went on a trip with a few hiking pals on the Jacks River. My pack was about 38#, I didn't complain. I packed it, so I'll carry it and hike fast with no problems. I came up from behind on a couple of my fellow hikers and overheard them speaking negatively about what I packed. Now, that is uncalled for. Just b/c I'm not like you doesn't mean what I'm doing is wrong. The last place for elitists is the trail. Pack the way you feel comfortable packing and enjoy the hike. Why put down others b/c they don't think like you? Hiking is about enjoying and communing with nature, not about who can carry the most or least.

Blue Jay
02-13-2004, 11:57
I'm all for lite hiking, however, I'm not there yet. What I do dislike is the snobbery that lite hikers seems to have towards non-lite hikers. Case in point, last summer I went on a trip with a few hiking pals on the Jacks River. My pack was about 38#, I didn't complain. I packed it, so I'll carry it and hike fast with no problems. I came up from behind on a couple of my fellow hikers and overheard them speaking negatively about what I packed. Now, that is uncalled for. Just b/c I'm not like you doesn't mean what I'm doing is wrong. The last place for elitists is the trail. Pack the way you feel comfortable packing and enjoy the hike. Why put down others b/c they don't think like you? Hiking is about enjoying and communing with nature, not about who can carry the most or least.

You most likely were also going too fast or too slow also. Were you carrying the right poles? Did you come out of the shelters EXACTLY the same way you went in? Was your pack full, or did you commit the horror of slack packing or even worse did you have van support? That sends some people into a rage. Since hiking is relatively noncompetative we have to invent ways to be superior. We are very creative.

Jaybird
02-13-2004, 12:50
I pay very little attention to wingfoot since hes made it his life to make money off the trail. All though i am glad he does some of the things he does. But i get the feeling that he thinks the trail is his and his alone.



didn't WF buy the A.T. back in '93? :D




hey, if "lightening" the pack load makes you a member of a "CULT"....sign me up!


see ya'll UP the trail

tlbj6142
02-13-2004, 14:19
Now - let's define something here - "ultralite" is when your dry pack weight is in the "14# or less" range. Between 15 and 25# is "midweight" - and, given the available gear at this time, anything over 25# classes as "heavyweight". I was just about to comment on the what I think the various categories were when I found your posting. I would use these terms (dry pack weight, excluding water, food, fuel and clothing worn) for 3-season mountain hiking (25F+):

Super-Ultra lightweight -- 5# or less (easily done if you are made of money or make your own gear). www.backpackinglight.com (http://www.backpackinglight.com/) has a list that comes in under 5#. It is well thought out. And by no means "stupid".
Ultra-lightweight -- 10# or less. Could probably do this with common store bought items for $400-$500 (maybe less if you find the items on sale). Your bag would be the most expensive piece.
Lightweight -- 15# or less. This can be easily done with $300 and shoping sales.
Mediumweight -- 20# or less. This can easily be done without much effort.
Heavyweight -- 25# plus. Yikes!
Crazy heavy weight -- 30# plus. Ouch!
HYOH, I know many folks enjoy time in camp. As such more gear is brought along for camp "comfort" (chairs, extra clothes, extra shoes, fancy cookwear for fancy meals, etc.). I enjoy the hike. So, cutting weight is very important. As all I do in camp is put up my hammock, collect water for the morning, write a line or two into my journal and go to sleep.

I'm currently at 12#, but if I were to make my own bag, pack and shelter I could easily be below 10#. Which is exactly what I'm planning to do now that I have a new sewing machine.

firefly
02-13-2004, 14:58
I would not call it a cult...its more like an addiction...and it gets worse in the winter. What else is there to do when its cold and rainy but to play with your gear and see how lite you can get. I am about to go crazy with cabin fever. Fortunatly the REI dividend comes out soon then spring is just around the corner :)

Nightwalker
02-13-2004, 15:10
How about if you carry your scales into the store and weigh stuff before you will buy it.

No need. My outfitter has his own, and weighs gear when it comes in the door, then puts the "honest weight" on the tag right beside the company's version.

Helps to have a former thru helping you get the right gear. :)

Frank

jojo0425
02-13-2004, 15:14
You most likely were also going too fast or too slow also. Were you carrying the right poles? Did you come out of the shelters EXACTLY the same way you went in? Was your pack full, or did you commit the horror of slack packing or even worse did you have van support? That sends some people into a rage. Since hiking is relatively noncompetative we have to invent ways to be superior. We are very creative.


Too bad, brain power should be used on more productive things...like how to take over the world :p . That's why dancing bananas are great...never a fuss outa them :banana