View Full Version : American Chestnuts in Roan Highlands?
Bootstrap
04-21-2008, 07:06
Last October I was surprised by the number of chestnut trees I was walking by in the Roan Highlands, and I brought a pocket full of nuts back. Someone told me they were American Chestnuts.
I've now read elsewhere that only a few American Chestnuts survived, and North Carolina is not listed as one where American Chestnuts are found.
Are these some other kind of chestnuts?
Jonathan
Flush2wice
04-21-2008, 08:04
Are you sure they are chestnuts? Were they in a fuzzy burr? They could be buckeyes.
rusty rat
04-21-2008, 09:20
We found American Chestnuts in Ct and Penn. I have pictures. Can't post now. We're heading out now from the Free State Hostel in Md. on our way south on our Flip Flop.
Rusty Rat and Meat Hook.
We changed our plans. We left from Kent, CT on 18 March instead of DWG (good thing)
Alligator
04-21-2008, 09:34
While rare, American chestnut still survives as an understory tree and still has a fairly broad range. It simply can't make it to the overstory due to the blight.
The attached .pdf details its distribution.
Bootstrap
04-21-2008, 09:38
Are you sure they are chestnuts? Were they in a fuzzy burr? They could be buckeyes.
No fuzzy burr - these were definitely not buckeyes.
Jonathan
Bootstrap
04-21-2008, 09:43
While rare, American chestnut still survives as an understory tree and still has a fairly broad range. It simply can't make it to the overstory due to the blight.
The attached .pdf details its distribution.
Wow, this is really excellent information! Was the original in color? I'm trying to decipher Figure 4, at first blush it seems to say there are American chestnuts where I thought I saw them.
Jonathan
Flush2wice
04-21-2008, 09:58
No fuzzy burr - these were definitely not buckeyes.
Jonathan
Chestnuts have fuzzy burr, buckeyes have smooth burr. The nuts are similar, but chestnuts have a little tail and buckeyes are more polished looking.
They are all over our area. It is so sad to see the blight take them shortly after they bear nuts a few seasons. I think there is a thread on WB somewhere about the efforts to produce a cross which is blight resistant, as is the Chinese Chestnut.
There are many research farms working on this right now, two for sure in VA and numerous in NC as well.
What I find odd is walking up on Chinese Chestnuts trees,seemingly in the middle of nowhere. Apparently government agencies planted them to provide a nut crop in remote areas where people minded, timbered and farmed.
Frau:sun
Alligator
04-21-2008, 10:10
Wow, this is really excellent information! Was the original in color? I'm trying to decipher Figure 4, at first blush it seems to say there are American chestnuts where I thought I saw them.
JonathanIt was a pub I found by off chance, but I don't have a hard copy. I'm guessing it's not in color, as I've seen pubs of this nature scanned in color if it has it.
However, you can request a hard copy at
[email protected] (
[email protected]) , the relevant information is below.
Title: Current status of chestnut in eastern US forests
Author: McWiliams, William H.; Lister, Tonya W.; LaPoint, Elizabeth B.; Rose, Anita K.; Vissage, John S.
Date: 2006
Source: In: Restoration of American Chestnut to Forest Lands: proceedings of a conference and workshop held at The North Carolina Arboretum, Asheville, North Carolina, U. S. A., May 4–6, 2004. Natural Resources Report NPS/NCR/CUE/NRR – 2006/001. [Washington, D.C.]: U.S. Dept. of the Interior, National Park Service, National Capital Region, Center for Urban Ecology, 2006: 31-39
Pennsylvania Rose
04-21-2008, 10:37
Could also have been Castanea pumila, the Allegheny chinkapin. Chestnut bur has 2-3 nuts; chinkapin has just 1, and is generally a little smaller. There are some other differences, too, but you have to be looking at the tree (I don't guess you brought the whole tree home :)) Range is pretty much the same, but chestnut grows in moist, rich soil, while chinkapin is on drier slopes and ridges.
Nearly Normal
04-21-2008, 11:34
Some people mistake chestnuts with chestnut oaks.
Chestnut oak have leaves that look much like a chestnut.
There are 2 kinds. One grows in the mountains the other in wet or swamp land. The swamp variety has a very large nut, the mountain also but not as big.
They are a favorite of wildlife.
Also known as cow oak. All manner of stock will eat them too.
Look for the acorn type cap found on the ground.
Marketed as red oak for lumber.
These are very valuable trees if you manage for wildlife.
Deer and bear will eat them before any other when available.
The acorn from the swamp variety really has to be seen to be believed.
Whoa Bear
04-21-2008, 12:04
They are all over our area. It is so sad to see the blight take them shortly after they bear nuts a few seasons. I think there is a thread on WB somewhere about the efforts to produce a cross which is blight resistant, as is the Chinese Chestnut.
There are many research farms working on this right now, two for sure in VA and numerous in NC as well.
What I find odd is walking up on Chinese Chestnuts trees,seemingly in the middle of nowhere. Apparently government agencies planted them to provide a nut crop in remote areas where people minded, timbered and farmed.
Frau:sun
Supposedly Virginia Tech has blight resistant strain that is something like 98% American and 2% Chinese. From what I have heard it may be offered in the seed catalogs over the next couple of years to be used by nurseries and foresters to start bringing the tree back.
leeki pole
04-21-2008, 12:19
Supposedly Virginia Tech has blight resistant strain that is something like 98% American and 2% Chinese. From what I have heard it may be offered in the seed catalogs over the next couple of years to be used by nurseries and foresters to start bringing the tree back.
That's true according to my forester. We're thinking of introducing them in an area conducive to their growth on my tree farm after thinning this year.
Woudn't it be great for my grandchildren to see such a majestic tree!:)
Chestnut oak marketed as red oak for lumber.
Subgenus = Leucobalanus (white oak group)
One of the more useful web tools I've found for answering tree-related questions is Dendrology at Virginia Tech (http://www.cnr.vt.edu/DENDRO/DENDROLOGY/main.htm). I'm sure people looking for photos of chestnuts or other species can find some there to post.
Click on American chestnut fact sheet (http://www.cnr.vt.edu/DENDRO/DENDROLOGY/syllabus/factsheet.cfm?ID=21) to view text and photos from the website mentioned in my last post.
leeki pole
04-21-2008, 14:26
Subgenus = Leucobalanus (white oak group)
So the chestnut is actually an oak? Wow, I didn't know that. Interesting.
Thanks for the info, SOG.
I have 4 large "chestnut" trees in my yard, I would estimate each about 30-40 feet high, matching the descriptions for American Chestnuts both given above and those that I have googled. They are healthy and bear fruit each year. I live in East Tenn., near Bristol. So are they truly American or the Chinese chestnut mentioned previously?
I think there is a thread on WB somewhere about the efforts to produce a cross with the Chinese chestnut which is blight resistant.
Frau:sun
Go here (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showpost.php?p=556730&postcount=15) for information I posted several times before. See also this posting (http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.jkLXJ8MQKtH/b.3906795/k.48EF/Study_of_Chestnut_Trees_Begins.htm) to ATC's site.
What I find odd is walking up on Chinese Chestnuts trees seemingly in the middle of nowhere. Apparently government agencies planted them to provide a nut crop in remote areas where people mined, timbered and farmed.
Frau:sun
I once knew a forester who at one time reclaimed strip mines. He planted Chinese chestnuts and may have planted other species too possibly including black locust which has been used in such applications because of its ability to fix nitrogen.
He was having difficulty getting seedlings established because locals were destroying them with their motorized toys until he came up with an idea. He had printed and posted signs with DANGER at the top and This area infested with Castanea mollissima beneath it. His problem went away.:D
Alligator
04-21-2008, 14:37
So the chestnut is actually an oak? Wow, I didn't know that. Interesting.
Thanks for the info, SOG.No, he was referring back to Nearly Normal's post. There's chestnut and then there's chestnut oak. SOG was correcting that chestnut oak is in the white oak group of oaks, not the red oak group of oaks.
So the chestnut is actually an oak? Wow, I didn't know that. Interesting.
Thanks for the info, SOG.
I didn't post what you claimed at all, nor did I bring up the topic of oaks.
The genera Quercus (oaks) and Castanea (chestnuts) belong to the family Fagaceace. The subgenus Leucobalanus (white oaks) includes chestnut oak.
Bare Bear
04-21-2008, 14:41
I so appreciate this forum and the info I learn every time I get to log in. Thanks for FACTS Shades of Gray..........
leeki pole
04-21-2008, 14:44
Sorry guys, my bad. I misread the posts. Please don't hold it against me.:o
Alligator
04-21-2008, 14:45
Sorry guys, my bad. I misread the posts. Please don't hold it against me.:oNo chestnuts at Christmas for you.
I have 4 large "chestnut" trees in my yard, I would estimate each about 30-40 feet high, matching the descriptions for American Chestnuts both given above and those that I have googled. They are healthy and bear fruit each year. I live in East Tenn., near Bristol. So are they truly American or the Chinese chestnut mentioned previously?
Could be American chestnuts, but more likely 1 or more other chestnut species or hybrids.
I expect we'll see this question with increasing frequency. I know I've seen online resources for differentiating chestnut species and should find one I can link and point to as needed.
Click on link (http://www.acf.org/find_a_tree.php) to see a page from American Chestnut Foundation's FAQ.
Sorry guys, my bad. I misread the posts. Please don't hold it against me.:o
Wouldn't think of it. I'm not one to hold a grudge.:) Azaleas finished blooming now?
orangebug
04-21-2008, 15:23
I thought chestnuts were a subset of hickorys.
Juglans (walnuts) and Carya (hickories) belong to the family Juglandaceae. Note what's underlined. All families end in the suffix -aceae.
leeki pole
04-21-2008, 15:41
Wouldn't think of it. I'm not one to hold a grudge.:) Azaleas finished blooming now?
Still blooming, the whites are about done but the pinks and reds somehow avoided the freeze and are beautiful. Thanks!
Nearly Normal
04-23-2008, 11:08
Subgenus = Leucobalanus (white oak group)
Yes you are correct. My mistake. I'm not sure where I got "Red Oak".
I should have researched before posting.
So....looking to The Audubon Society Field Guide.
"Chestnut Oaks"; both are sold as white oak and not to be confused with Chestnut trees.
The Swamp Chestnut Oak is know as the "Basket Oak" and "Cow Oak"
(Quercus michauxii)
The Chestnut Oak is known as "Rock Chestnut Oak" or "Rock Oak"
(Quercus prinus)
Both are listed in the "Beech Family"(Fagaceae)
American Chestnut is known as the "Chestnut".
(Castanea dentata)
Also listed in the Beech Family.
I certainly hope to see the American Chestnut return.
Hopefully Poster #1 did indeed find real chestnuts.
I would add swamp white oak (Quercus bicolor) is a beautiful ornamental tree which should be planted more often.
Chestnut oaks are attractive ornamental trees too, especially shortly after leafing-out when the leaves are brown before greening-up.