Warrendoyle.com - Odd Safety Message

[RITBlake]

I had some free time this morning so I ended up on Warren Doyle's website. I found it pretty interesting especially after passing Warren on the trail in 05.

As I was perusing the site I found a somewhat odd/funny safety warning on one of his preparation pages:


EXPECTATION #3 – Everyone who starts will finish.

Many injuries can be avoided by not:
knocking down a dead tree on another expedition member

What? Warren has this really been an issue in the past? The three or four dangerous activities mentioned before this were very plausible but this one is very very odd. Sounds like people are setting dead fall traps on one another!

[ofthearth]

Where did you see this? Went looking and could not find it.

[Gray Blazer]

We tried to do that in the Boy Scouts. Another fun/dangerous thing we irritating boys would do on a hike was push a branch out of the way and let it fly back and hit the fellow behind us. We used to ride bikes and skateboards w/o helmets. It's a wonder we survived. I think it's a good thing to not knock down dead trees on people.

[RITBlake]

it's under the three expectations page under the complete circle section:

http://www.lmc.edu/faculty/DoyleW/ATExpectations.html

[ofthearth]

Thanks. See it now. It had run of the page knocking d
another expedition member

and I guessed it said knocking down a another expedition member. Still strange but.....

[warren doyle]

This 'knocking down a dead tree' snippet explaining an avoidable injury was a lighthearted reference to making sure when someone knocks down a dead tree that they don't let it fall on themselves, on each other, or the trail itself.

It is in the 'Courtesy, Etiquette & Safety' chapter of "101 Things to do with a Dead Tree" book.

[RITBlake]

This 'knocking down a dead tree' snippet explaining an avoidable injury was a lighthearted reference to making sure when someone knocks down a dead tree that they don't let it fall on themselves, on each other, or the trail itself.

It is in the 'Courtesy, Etiquette & Safety' chapter of "101 Things to do with a Dead Tree" book.

I see. But in 2175 miles of walking I never came across a dead tree in the middle of the trail so I found this a bit weird.

[warren doyle]

Maybe because everyone who has knocked down a dead tree has read this chapter.

I haven't heard of any hikers being injured by knocking down a dead tree (along the side of the trail) either on themselves or others but I have seen a few close calls.

[Frosty]

We tried to do that in the Boy Scouts. Another fun/dangerous thing we irritating boys would do on a hike was push a branch out of the way and let it fly back and hit the fellow behind us. We used to ride bikes and skateboards w/o helmets. It's a wonder we survived. I think it's a good thing to not knock down dead trees on people.Once on a snowshoe hike, coming out of Nancy/Norcross ponds a dead tree fell across the path while we were walking on it. Fell between two of the hikers, about three feet from each. No wind, no noise except a muffled thump when it landed in the snow. THe hikers in front of the fallen tree didn't even know it fell - we had to yell at them to get them to turn around. Weirdest thing I ever saw.

The other dead tree thing are dead branches. Every time I clear away dead branches to make a spot for my tent, I spent half the night lying awake listening to the wind in the trees and thinking about how all those big dead branches came to be on the ground right where I was currently lying.

[rickb]

Standing deadwood being vital to forest ecology, I think it can now be said without debate that:

Mr. Doyle has comitted crimes against nature along the AT.

Just saying.

[Mags]

"Widow Makers" earn their nickname. This incident happened this past November. Scary part is that I have hiked/skiied/snowshoed in this area many times myself.

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2007/nov/29/tragedy-haunts-hiker/

[JAK]

It makes sense to be mindful of the fact that all trees eventually fall down.

[max patch]

Anyone else see the Rufus Morgan shelter after the tree fell on it 1990 ish? I've always wondered if it was occupied when that happened.

[tlbj6142]

I had a tree fall away from me (thankfully) when I was in my hammock along the LHHT. Scared the crap out of me, as I could hear the tree slowly falling, but I couldn't see it. In the morning, I could see it had fallen away from me and landed in the crook of another tree. I almost put my hammock on the tree it fell on but changed my mind because there was another nearby tree that looked like it was going to fall (but didn't).

[dessertrat]

I have seen tons of dead trees along the trail, and a couple over it. I have also been in my tent one night when a dead tree fell not too far away.

It is not a hazard to ignore, though it is a rare source of death and injury, it does happen.

[greentick]

First thing I do when I pick out a place to lay down: look up for dead trees. Second thing: look down for ants.

[RITBlake]

It is not a hazard to ignore, though it is a rare source of death and injury, it does happen.


Right, a tree falling on you is obviously no joke and could easily kill you. But I just found it funny that WD doesn't advise you not to camp near dead trees, but instead warns you to not 'knock down a dead tree on another expedition member"

[RITBlake]

http://www.maine2georgia.com/warning.jpg

[Flush2wice]

"Widow Makers" earn their nickname. This incident happened this past November. Scary part is that I have hiked/skiied/snowshoed in this area many times myself.

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2007/nov/29/tragedy-haunts-hiker/
The irony of that story is the guy the tree fell on taught mathematical probability at Auburn.
On another note theres a widowmaker about 9 miles south of Hot Springs on a big rock with an over look. It's right next to a water source. Clearly folks have camped there before and the tree is perfectly positioned to hang a hammock from. Accident waiting to happen.

[Alligator]

The irony of that story is the guy the tree fell on taught mathematical probability at Auburn.
On another note theres a widowmaker about 9 miles south of Hot Springs on a big rock with an over look. It's right next to a water source. Clearly folks have camped there before and the tree is perfectly positioned to hang a hammock from. Accident waiting to happen.In fact, it could poke your eye out through your nose.

[ofthearth]

Standing deadwood being vital to forest ecology, I think it can now be said without debate that:

Mr. Doyle has comitted crimes against nature along the AT.

Just saying.

Not sure what you're trying to :confused:

[Frosty]

I had a tree fall away from me (thankfully) when I was in my hammock along the LHHT. Scared the crap out of me, as I could hear the tree slowly falling, but I couldn't see it. In the morning, I could see it had fallen away from me and landed in the crook of another tree. I almost put my hammock on the tree it fell on but changed my mind because there was another nearby tree that looked like it was going to fall (but didn't).If you were a cat, you'd have eight lives left. Things like this often make to take stock of how my life.

[Undershaft]

I once had a live tree fall on me. It was on Ten Mile Hill in CT during a particularly nasty thunderstorm. The wind gusts were around sixty mph and trees were going down left and right. I was just below the summit heading for the shelter when a large birch on my left snapped in the wind and fell right where I was standing on the trail. Fortunatly the top of the tree trunk grew into two thick branches and when the tree hit the trail, I was standing right between the two main branches. I only got hit with leaves and small kindling size branches instead of the two main limbs. I started running down the hill after that!

[tlbj6142]

If you were a cat, you'd have eight lives left. Things like this often make to take stock of how my life.I think I might be down to 7 or less. I had a scary scuba diving incident that literally gave me nasty cold-sweat type nightmares for 3-5 years after it happened. I think I'm over it now. As it was replaced by a regularly occurring nightmare in which my kids drown in a pit toilet. That bugged me for the next 2-4 years. I think they are a bit too big to fall in now.:eek:

[Blissful]

A guy last year who thru hiked got the trail name Widowmaker because a tree fell on his tent, crushing it. Thankfully he was okay.

[TheTank]

Anyone else see the Rufus Morgan shelter after the tree fell on it 1990 ish? I've always wondered if it was occupied when that happened.

That happened in the blizzard of '93. I have a couple friends that were hiking that year, and later talked to people who stayed in that shelter during part of the blizzard. As I have been told they were waiting the blizzard out in the shelter, and at one point one of them went outside and looked up and realized that all the branches above the shelter where weighed down with snow and it looked like they were about to break and fall on the shelter, so they made the decision to leave and trudge through the snow the one mile to NOC. They left a bunch of stuff in the shelter because the snow was already several feet deep and they did not want to carry more than necessary. After the blizzard ended they went back to get their stuff and found that they made the right decision leaving the shelter because it had been completely destroyed by stuff falling on it.

[max patch]

Thanks Tank, I've thought about that shelter everytime I'm at the NOC.

[Hooch]

Maybe WD should concentrate more on finding people for his circle with enough sense not to knock trees down on each other. :rolleyes::D

[warren doyle]

Standing deadwood being vital to forest ecology, I think it can now be said without debate that:

Mr. Doyle has comitted crimes against nature along the AT.

Just saying.

Guilty as charged.

[mrc237]

That happened in the blizzard of '93. I have a couple friends that were hiking that year, and later talked to people who stayed in that shelter during part of the blizzard. As I have been told they were waiting the blizzard out in the shelter, and at one point one of them went outside and looked up and realized that all the branches above the shelter where weighed down with snow and it looked like they were about to break and fall on the shelter, so they made the decision to leave and trudge through the snow the one mile to NOC. They left a bunch of stuff in the shelter because the snow was already several feet deep and they did not want to carry more than necessary. After the blizzard ended they went back to get their stuff and found that they made the right decision leaving the shelter because it had been completely destroyed by stuff falling on it.

Its all in the timing!

[SGT Rock]

Sounds like an inside joke with old circle members.

[Chef2000]

I have seen tons of dead trees along the trail, and a couple over it. I have also been in my tent one night when a dead tree fell not too far away.

It is not a hazard to ignore, though it is a rare source of death and injury, it does happen.

I have had the same happen to me, in my tent, stormy night, tree falls, I heard it, missed my tent " By that much". Now I usually look at the trees, before I set up my tent.

[minnesotasmith]

EXPECTATION #3 – Everyone who starts will finish.



Whatever happened to HYOH? If someone quits, that's a shame, but like (honest) blueblazing, it's that hiker's business, and theirs alone. I know of people on the Trail who had unanticipated family issues that lead them to quit, and if someone puts their marriage or welfare of a minor child above their thruhiking that year, it's very arguably the right thing for them to get off the Trail then.

Fix that by changing it to "every aspiring thruhiker in this loose-knit group hopefully is serious about their thruhike, whatever their goals for it, but HYOH comes above all".

[warren doyle]

Whatever happened to HYOH? If someone quits, that's a shame, but like (honest) blueblazing, it's that hiker's business, and theirs alone. I know of people on the Trail who had unanticipated family issues that lead them to quit, and if someone puts their marriage or welfare of a minor child above their thruhiking that year, it's very arguably the right thing for them to get off the Trail then.

Fix that by changing it to "every aspiring thruhiker in this loose-knit group hopefully is serious about their thruhike, whatever their goals for it, but HYOH comes above all".

You have the freedom to organize a group if you want.

[Skidsteer]

You have the freedom to organize a group if you want.

Instead of a circle it would have to be called a square.

[Flush2wice]

You have the freedom to organize a group if you want.


Instead of a circle it would have to be called a square.
Actually that's pretty darn funny to think about. What would MS's organized group thru hike be like? Would they need an extra support van for toilet paper and seaweed?:)

[Panzer1]

http://www.lmc.edu/faculty/DoyleW/DailySch.html128 days seems like a very aggressive schedule. I didn't see any zero days. I don't think I could do it in 128 days.:(

Panzer

[Tin Man]

128 days seems like a very aggressive schedule. I didn't see any zero days. I don't think I could do it in 128 days.:(

Panzer

It's a total slack hike, very few days carrying more than lunch and water.

[Tin Man]

Instead of a circle it would have to be called a square.

Yes, but can he spare a square?

[Erin]

I never paid any attention to dead trees until a few years ago. I was oblivious and ignorant. We were camped off the Butterfield Loop in Arkansas and a small group of guys was down the trail from us also camping after dark. Calm night. They were around their fire. Then, crack and swoosh. A very large tree fell and missed this guys tent by ten feet;the trunk of the tree, not just the branches. We were seven or eight miles from anything. And the tree did not look that bad. Now, I look before I pitch. Lesson learned for me.

[minnesotasmith]

You have the freedom to organize a group if you want.

To be able to handle the trials of a thruhike. In fact, many of us found the solitude of the wilderness to often be a major plus to the experience.

[RITBlake]

Whatever happened to HYOH? If someone quits, that's a shame, but like (honest) blueblazing, it's that hiker's business, and theirs alone. I know of people on the Trail who had unanticipated family issues that lead them to quit, and if someone puts their marriage or welfare of a minor child above their thruhiking that year, it's very arguably the right thing for them to get off the Trail then.

Fix that by changing it to "every aspiring thruhiker in this loose-knit group hopefully is serious about their thruhike, whatever their goals for it, but HYOH comes above all".

MS..you talk about Hiking Your Own Hike and then you criticize the way in which WD and his group hikes??

:-?

[warren doyle]

128 days seems like a very aggressive schedule. I didn't see any zero days. I don't think I could do it in 128 days.:(

Panzer

It's 127 days.
There are two rest days - Hanover and Monson.
We have had people ranging in age from 14 y.o to 68 y.o. do this schedule.
About 25 hopefuls will be starting the preparation for the 2010 trek from May 13-16.
The schedule is realistic for properly prepared walkers.

[warren doyle]

MS..you talk about Hiking Your Own Hike and then you criticize the way in which WD and his group hikes??

:-?

Amazing, isn't it?

This same individual posted that I should be banned from the trail (which, of course, earned him instant internegator status).

[minnesotasmith]

MS..you talk about Hiking Your Own Hike and then you criticize the way in which WD and his group hikes??

Warren seems to not want to let his newbies HTOHs. I suggested he do so more than he does now.

[RITBlake]

Warren seems to not want to let his newbies HTOHs. I suggested he do so more than he does now.

Maybe the way Warren runs his group hikes is EXACTLY how someone else WANTS to hike.

So let them hike their own hike. Just because it's not the way YOU or I would like to do another thru hike, doesn't mean its not what someone else wants.

Also, Warren is clearly documenting his group philosophy well in advance. It's all over his web page and I'm sure it's covered in his pre-hikes. No one is holding these people at gun point to make them hike. They're free to come and go as they please.

If these 'newbies' wanted a solo thru hike, then that's what'd seek out. Instead they wanted a group experience.

So follow your own creed, HYOH...

[minnesotasmith]

Amazing, isn't it?

This same individual posted that I should be banned from the trail (which, of course, earned him instant internegator status).

I would think someone with an earned Ph.D. could express themselves competently using the English language, not having to make up words the way rap "singers" (typically 5th-grade dropouts, judging by their grammar, syntax, diction, and vocabularies) do.
If you have a criticism of my points, express it clearly in English, or get help with your writing. (Many a retired high-school English teacher would love the chance to tutor someone of any age who has difficulty writing clearly.)

[OregonHiker]

Whatever happened to HYOH? .

Whatever happened to SYOB (shave your own beard)?

[Jack Tarlin]

Geez, Smitty, leave me OUT of this one, eh? :D

[minnesotasmith]

Geez, Smitty, leave me OUT of this one, eh? :D

Is there anything errant in my logic lambasting Mr. "Endangering trail services since 1980" (or whenever)? ;)

[zoidfu]

I would think someone with an earned Ph.D. could express themselves competently using the English language, not having to make up words the way rap "singers" (typically 5th-grade dropouts, judging by their grammar, syntax, diction, and vocabularies) do.
If you have a criticism of my points, express it clearly in English, or get help with your writing. (Many a retired high-school English teacher would love the chance to tutor someone of any age who has difficulty writing clearly.)

Spell checking and grammar checking are signs of intellectual weakness and I hate to break it to you but "internegator" is internet slang for internet instigator and has been for awhile. Crawl, dog, crawl!

[notorius tic]

In 07 we going up the approch to Fontana Dam and a HUGE Blow Down feel between to hikers mabey 3feet from crushing one, it was a wake up call. Same year that the Smokies looked like a battle field..

[rickb]

Walking from one end of the AT to the other (I can't say thru hike, because that term was recently redefined by some to become more "inclusive"), is a difficult task for an individual.

Successfully leading a whole group from one end of the the trail to the other has to be an order of magnitude more difficult.

If the one individual who has ever accomplished this leadership task not once, but multiple times, sees fits to state that he holds the high expectation that all members of his group will finish, why do some quibble with that?

Geesh. Some of you would criticize Earnest Shackelton for asking his expedition members what songs they could sing as part of the interview process.

What works. Works.

Why be so little?

[max patch]

"internegator" is internet slang for internet instigator and has been for awhile.

I googled "internegator".

6 hits; all from Whiteblaze or on other sites from people who post on Whiteblaze.

So it is in fact a made up word not in common use.

[zoidfu]

I googled "internegator".

6 hits; all from Whiteblaze or on other sites from people who post on Whiteblaze.

So it is in fact a made up word not in common use.

You need to visit other forums, bro. That word has been in use on Myspace forums for years.

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

Don't want to add any fuel to this fire, but I can confirm that I have seen "internegator' elsewhere. It is basically the same thing as a scat-stirrer.

[zoidfu]

And let's say it was just made up. It works well so why not go with it? I'm sure it wouldn't be the first time slang was born here.

Why would the use of a harmless slang word demand a questioning of a person's education?

[Tin Man]

And let's say it was just made up. It works well so why not go with it? I'm sure it wouldn't be the first time slang was born here.

Why would the use of a harmless slang word demand a questioning of a person's education?

It's usually the opinions of others that cause the writer to question the spelling, grammar, and consequently the education of others. In other words, if you don't use proper English, you are uneducated and therefore your opinion is worthless. :rolleyes: Same logic appears to work for those who throw out the term internegator - you dare to question my thoughts, you are labeled!

[SGT Rock]

I can see how the circle could be enticing to someone. Lets say you want to hike the entire AT but are not sure you can make it for a variety of reasons such as don't think you can hike with a pack, unsure if you have the personal drive to make it, wanking a social group to hang with (hate being alone), are worried about camping or re-supply, or any sort of combination of these things.

Then you find out there is a guy that will pretty much gets you up the AT where you don't need to carry a pack. He will show you were to camp and where to re-supply, and where some of the cool things on the AT are. You will always be with a group of people you know, and he has a pretty good success rate. He has a preparation plan to follow and a few group hikes ahead of time so you can be sure you can do it and this is how you want to do it. It sounds pretty reasonable. The only thing I don't know is if the fee is refundable if you change your mind later.

It sure isn't the way I would want to do it, but I can see how some people would.

HYOY, let the circle hike theirs.

[Tin Man]

I can see how the circle could be enticing to someone. Lets say you want to hike the entire AT but are not sure you can make it for a variety of reasons such as don't think you can hike with a pack, unsure if you have the personal drive to make it, wanking a social group to hang with (hate being alone), are worried about camping or re-supply, or any sort of combination of these things.

Then you find out there is a guy that will pretty much gets you up the AT where you don't need to carry a pack. He will show you were to camp and where to re-supply, and where some of the cool things on the AT are. You will always be with a group of people you know, and he has a pretty good success rate. He has a preparation plan to follow and a few group hikes ahead of time so you can be sure you can do it and this is how you want to do it. It sounds pretty reasonable. The only thing I don't know is if the fee is refundable if you change your mind later.

It sure isn't the way I would want to do it, but I can see how some people would.

HYOY, let the circle hike theirs.

The concept really is not all that much different than many other guided expeditions. Many people like this approach.

[tlbj6142]

The concept really is not all that much different than many other guided expeditions. Many people like this approach.But the AT is special and if you don't hike the way I hike you are wrong and an idiot. Everyone knows that HYOH means "You suck and don't know what you are talking about!".

/sarcasm....except the last sentence.

[saimyoji]

And let's say it was just made up. It works well so why not go with it? I'm sure it wouldn't be the first time slang was born here.



Hmmm....like packsniffer? Asshat? Pinkblazing? Kludos? :cool:

[minnesotasmith]

Spell checking and grammar checking are signs of intellectual weakness

If you have the capacity to do them on your own writings. I can manage that, and I only have a master's.

[warren doyle]

Posts #33, 45, 47, 49, 51 - And I thought I dropped it all in the toilet bowl this morning.

I don't know about other websites, but I decided to use the term 'internegator' (a combination of internet and negativity) here on WB as a quick answer to (and a well-deserved label of) those few obsessively mean-spirited, name-calling bullies, who are overly-critical to the the point of continually posting slanderous/libelous falsehoods here on WB. I can only think of a half-dozen members of the WB community that fall into that category from my perspective. Fortunately, the internegators have been somewhat quiet since the WB moderators began enforcing the posting rules.

On other matters on this thread:

1) Sgt. Rock: I appreciate your well-reasoned posts. The donation collected at the beginning of the expedition (late April 2010) which is to cover support van expenses is refundable on a pro-rated basis should someone have to stop, which by the very nature of this group is unlikely. The expedition is a labor of love. I refuse to institutionalize it or make it commercial in any way.

2) Tin Man: Because of the above, the expedition is very different than the modern definition of a 'guided expedition'. There is a big difference between a 'client' and a 'circle member'.

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

Asshat wasn't born here.... I was seeing that one long before WB was around - back in the days of the undernet.

[warren doyle]

Have you started reimbursing those you've stolen from during your hikes, or not? (If you talk about how unfair it is for anyone to have expectations about your behavior, I'll take that as a NO.)

I'm getting tired of these false accusations.
Please provide detailed, confirmed evidence of those that I've stolen from.
If you can't produce anything that is valid, I request that you refrain from continuing these slanderous remarks (which I would expect a person with any sense of decency would do).

Please be aware that internet website postings are a matter of public record and can be used in court as evidence.

So, once again, please produce actual records of my being cited, fined, arrested and/or convicted of 'theft', 'robbery', or 'stealing' by legal authorities.

[weary]

I googled "internegator".

6 hits; all from Whiteblaze or on other sites from people who post on Whiteblaze.

So it is in fact a made up word not in common use.
English is a living language. New words are constantly being added, or gaining new definitions.

Weary

[warren doyle]

#71 - Another esteemed member of the 'Holy Trinity'.

It's been a while since I got 2 out of 3 in a matter of minutes.
However, I am not waxing nostalgic over this fact.

[max patch]

English is a living language. New words are constantly being added, or gaining new definitions.

Weary

Agreed.

I just take issue when someone says that a word has been used on the internet for awhile to make a point -- when in fact the word has the grand sum of 6 google hits.

[Tin Man]

Post #69 - Yet another example.

...of keeping the record straight.

[warren doyle]

Now that would be interesting.

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

Posts describing illegal activities such as theft of services are deleted because they violate the site's TOS. However, deleted posts are still available to the site admins.

[RITBlake]

Posts describing illegal activities such as theft of services are deleted because they violate the site's TOS. However, deleted posts are still available to the site admins.

I would then recommend you delete MS's accusatory posts as well. This thread is about trees falling on people and it's unfair to WD to have other things dragged in, especially when the accusations are coming from a 3rd party and posted in a public forum.

What's fair is fair FD


Have you started reimbursing those you've stolen from during your hikes, or not? (If you talk about how unfair it is for anyone to have expectations about your behavior, I'll take that as a NO.)

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

I haven't deleted anything from this thread and won't - the owners can decide how they want to handle this thread.

I was simply noting that the posts regarding theft of services would have been removed from the view of most of the site members and therefore could not be cited as WD requested.

[RITBlake]

owners?

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

The site is co-owned by Sgt Rock and ATTroll.

[bigmac_in]

Since this post started about falling trees - can I just say this thread has gone downhill faster than a falling tree?

But as I look at it - was the thread really started as a little fuel to get something going on WD?

Anyway, it was interesting for a while - with some interesting stories about close calls with things falling from above. Now it seems to be something else flying around, and I'm bored. I think I'll check out some interesting threads - you won't see me in this one again, that stuff splatters..........

[weary]

I've got some work that will occupy me the rest of my shift, so it'll have to be tonight.

In the meantime, perhaps a few pounds of this will help you out: ;)
Sarge -- or whoever. This belongs in "Politics" if White Blaze is to be consistent.

Weary

[rickb]

Moral outrage is good for male bonding.

As such, these threads do serve a purpose.

[DesertMTB]

They are also very entertaining. I have to say that I am anti WD at this point.

[SGT Rock]

Sarge -- or whoever. This belongs in "Politics" if White Blaze is to be consistent.

Weary
Actually it doesn't belong in politics - it needs moved to the hole.

As for the rest of this - calm down. Warren Doyle has not talked at all about theft of services, he has talked only about questions related to his circle expedition. In case you haven't noticed, he doesn't even really talk about it when you guys bring it up anymore. At a certain level you have got to wonder who is more worried about talking about breaking the law when he rises above while others sink below.

[Jack Tarlin]

Rock:

See "Chaco" thread for travel itinerary. See you tomorrow, and thank you; the Pony Express couldn't do better, and you're cheaper!!

[RITBlake]

Since this post started about falling trees - can I just say this thread has gone downhill faster than a falling tree?



http://www.maine2georgia.com/warning.jpg

[mudhead]

Having pushed a punky grey birch toward a buddy, and having the top 4' whack me, I found the warning amusing.

I don't do stuff like that anymore, the chickadees need their homes.

[Tabasco]

The Doyleites vs the Tarlinistas

round 67

[weary]

Actually it doesn't belong in politics - it needs moved to the hole.....
I'll buy that alternative.

Weary

[weary]

http://www.maine2georgia.com/warning.jpgI've seen a lot of dead trees. I know dead trees. That tree isn't dead.

[Frosty]

I've seen a lot of dead trees. I know dead trees. That tree isn't dead.Maybe it's a dead parrot-tree.


Having pushed a punky grey birch toward a buddy, and having the top 4' whack me, I found the warning amusing.What I call this poetic justice (hoist by one's own petard?)

[Jack Tarlin]

Actually, the traditional phrase (see Hamlet, for example) is "hoist WITH his own petard" and not BY one's own.

But I see your point.

[mudhead]

The point was on my head.

Young, and dumb, and laughed at.

[Frosty]

Actually, the traditional phrase (see Hamlet, for example) is "hoist WITH his own petard" and not BY one's own.

But I see your point.Using Shakespeare as an example of literature is superb. Using him as an example of how to speak is a bit iffy. Hamlet famously said "perchance to dream" and unless I was in a B&N cafe or something, I'd say, "maybe to dream." Definately I'd say "maybe" if I was at the counter of a Waffle House.

Back to the main point, I don't see the difference between:

a) getting blown up WITH your own bomb, and
b) gettng blown up BY your own bomb.

Now "from" would be wrong. "Getting blown up FROM your own bomb" I wouldn't even say at a Waffle House counter.

[Skidsteer]

Now "from" would be wrong. "Getting blown up FROM your own bomb" I wouldn't even say at a Waffle House counter.

'Course not. You'd be wasting words.

All you'd have to say is, "Hey watch this" or perhaps, "Hold my beer".

[Frosty]

'Course not. You'd be wasting words.

All you'd have to say is, "Hey watch this" or perhaps, "Hold my beer".Yeah, it's always an adventure to see what happens after someone says, "Wanna see somethin' real cool? Here, hold my beer a sec."

[Gray Blazer]

Some great poets mentioned in this WD thread. Shakespeare and Mick Jagger.

[Wags]

Back to the main point, I don't see the difference between:

a) getting blown up WITH your own bomb, and
b) gettng blown up BY your own bomb.

if you go by definitions, then you could summize that (A) means the bomb exploded as well as you, it does not mean that the bomb itself did the blowing up or the blowing up of you, mearly that the bomb exploded at the same time you did. (B) means the bomb did the exploding and actually blew you up.

[mudhead]

But you still are blown up.

[Frosty]

Back to the main point, I don't see the difference between:

a) getting blown up WITH your own bomb, and
b) gettng blown up BY your own bomb.

if you go by definitions, then you could summize that (A) means the bomb exploded as well as you, it does not mean that the bomb itself did the blowing up or the blowing up of you, mearly that the bomb exploded at the same time you did.Kindly apply this logic to getting stabbed with your own knife. :D



Back to the main point, I don't see the difference between:

a) getting blown up WITH your own bomb, and
b) gettng blown up BY your own bomb.

if you go by definitions, then you could summize that (B) means the bomb did the exploding and actually blew you up.That is what I meant. But if I wanted to be silly also, I could say that (B) meant that the bomb didn't explode at all, but I did at a time I was in close proximity (by) the bomb.

Words have many definitions. You can always find variant definitions of words for every situation if your goal is to misunderstand someone.

It was a fun game to play when I was a Cub Scout leader, but by the time the boys made it to Webelos, they had lost interest in that kind of stuff.

Still, it's fun once in a while.

"I just flew in from the coast, and boy are my arms tired."

"Oh, hi. Where did you come from?"
"My mother's womb."

"On safari I woke up and shot an elephant in my pajamas. How he got into them I'll never know."

"Since you decided to wear that hat, I ....."
Does "since you" mean "after the time you started to, or"because you"

Communication requires that the listener have a desire to understand the speaker. Of course, if that were to occur here, the most entertaining threads would be boring, and this thread would never have been started.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz