rest step causes problems?

[Wags]

well i've read about this rest step thing that is prescribed by some hikers, and after some consideration i decided to put that idea into the "this will potentially seriously injure you" box.

my reasoning:
ok so ya know those eliptical machines and the like at the gym? the key concept of those are to eliminate impact on your knee joints, also secondary joints such as hips, ankles, and back. know why running tracks are made of cushiony rubber pieces and not concrete or blacktop? know why you hurt when you run on a road but don't elsewhere?

if you don't get where i'm going by now, then maybe it's too late and i shouldn't be typing :D anyway, my reasoning and what i'm sharing w/ you guys is: the rest step will definitely increase the pounding of the major joints in the lower half of the body, as well as the back. i seriously advise against using it no matter how tired your legs feel. stepping w/ a straight leg and having all that impact go straight into your knee and hip is not good for anyone, especially people who walk far distances.

eventually your muscles will compensate, but your joints will not...

i'm not a doctor or PT, but this is my belief. thoughts?

[greentick]

You don't step onto a locked out joint but step-lock-rest, step-lock-rest etc. One of the guys I hike with uses it occasionally when he gets tired but wants to make forward progress. He likes it and hasn't complained of any joint pain.

[kayak karl]

well i've read about this rest step thing that is prescribed by some hikers, and after some consideration i decided to put that idea into the "this will potentially seriously injure you" box.

my reasoning:
ok so ya know those eliptical machines and the like at the gym? the key concept of those are to eliminate impact on your knee joints, also secondary joints such as hips, ankles, and back. know why running tracks are made of cushiony rubber pieces and not concrete or blacktop? know why you hurt when you run on a road but don't elsewhere?

if you don't get where i'm going by now, then maybe it's too late and i shouldn't be typing :D anyway, my reasoning and what i'm sharing w/ you guys is: the rest step will definitely increase the pounding of the major joints in the lower half of the body, as well as the back. i seriously advise against using it no matter how tired your legs feel. stepping w/ a straight leg and having all that impact go straight into your knee and hip is not good for anyone, especially people who walk far distances.

eventually your muscles will compensate, but your joints will not...

i'm not a doctor or PT, but this is my belief. thoughts?
from what i read it is used in ascending and it is the locking of the trailing leg to take the weight off AFTER lifting. ive done this not knowing its name. sometimes you see roofers on there toes, legs straight, leaning forward shingling. they are RESTING their leg muscles.:)

[bigcranky]

I rest step all the time, and there is no pounding of the knee joint if done properly.

[gsingjane]

Another thing you can try if you're finding uphills challenging is just to do what we call "turtling." Just sort of creep up the hill, going as slowly as you need to so you don't ever have to stop and breathe. I tried this on an uphill that I found hard on our last trip, and found that I actually overtook and passed my much faster daughter, who had to stop and pant.

Jane in CT

[JAK]

It seems the original poster had one technique mixed up with another. Both come naturally but I agree that the first technique, which sounds like something I have done running extra long distances, is very bad to do on roads, especially with bad footwear. The latter technique I have done on hills, and I think it is a technique that comes naturally to keep lactic acid from building up on very steep climbs, like switchbacks around trees and such. The lactic acid burn is your bodies way of telling you your muscles aren't getting enough oxygen, and this can happen with muscle contraction even if you aren't breathing heavily, but usually coincides with high heart rate and hard breathing. I think the step-rest-step that folks are describing is a way of slowing down your climb so your heart and lung capacity can keep up, while at the same time resting your legs in such a way that the muscles are relaxed and still getting blood. As I said, you usually don't have to learn these methods. They come naturally. Studying them usually follows doing them. What works best depends on body weight and pack weight and hill steepness and fitness and energy level, but what works best usually comes naturally, but might still need to be learned if the situation is new. Use your brain but keep it natural. Let your body do most of the work. Endorphins shut the brain down for a reason. ;)

[fiddlehead]

I have to agree with Gsing Jane here. I have never needed a rest step as i just let my breathing control how fast i go up a hill. If i am getting out of breath, i slow down. The key is not to stop like she says. I have already climbed a 6,000 foot climb in the Himalayas with one stop for lunch doing this.

[gsingjane]

Fiddlehead, that's quite a testimonial!!! Puts my little climbs on the AT to shame, that's for sure! It's way cool to hear it works so well even in really challenging situations!

Jane

[fiddlehead]

Yeah, just go slow up the hills. The people who stop, well, they just stop all of that cardiovascular work they had going and have to start all over again.
Same with when i jog. It takes me about 20 minutes to get into the rhythm, then i maintain it as long as i can.

[Kerosene]

The Rest Step places no more stress on your joints than walking (and may even place a little less as your next step starts from a standing static position). Basically, just hike uphill as you normally would, but lock your knee for a second before taking the next step. It's a way to rest your legs and get your breathing under control more than anything.

I used to use the Rest Step when I was younger but carrying a heavier pack. Today, on long steep inclines, I shift into what I call "low-slow gear". Unlike "turtling", I try to keep my speed constant throughout the climb as I find that I hike better with a goal in mind rather than trying to adjust my pace all the time (that's the competitive part of me!). If I get too tired then I take a short standing rest (30-90 seconds usually for me), or perhaps lean against a tree to take the weight of my pack off my legs.

[Pedaling Fool]

Exactly what is the Rest-step method? And why is all the talk about uphill climbs and joint problems? The down-hills are what, IMO, causes the joint problems - uphills are just a cardio thing, from my experience. I just put one foot in front of the other, please tell me what I'm doing wrong.:sun

[Lyle]

I agree with most here. Rest Step can work wonders for tired, burning leg muscles if done properly.

For the cardiovascular issues, low or creeper gear with substantially shortened steps. The degree of slowing is dictated by the steepness and length of the climb and by your physical condition at the particular moment. Being able to apply these methods whenever needed are the main reason that hiking alone is so much easier than trying to hike with one or more others (and staying together on the trail). Hiking really is an individual sport in my opinion.

Edit: The rest step can be used for downhill also, just not as easily. It isn't as natural. It probably is even more beneficial for downhill for me, that is when my legs get the most tired. Have to keep your pace real slow, or you spend more energy breaking your momentum than it's worth to rest your muscle. Downhills are why I have become a total convert to trekking poles (my choice and recommendation is PacerPoles - very unique and effective). Using poles for downhill accomplish the same thing, but is easier than using the rest step when going down. This is probably why I don't mind uphill nearly as much as downhill, it's easier to deal with adjusting to uphill fatigue.

[Blissful]

I've heard of the rest step. But honestly, I just hiked, slow at first in the AM (usually aobut an hour) to warm the muscles up, and then could set a pace. But only when I had developed the hiker legs. Before that it was slow and easy with short miles.

[AlwaysHiking]

Not sure about the rest step, have heard of it but never tried it, but to the turtling/resting going uphill. I actually find that kicking it up a gear on inclines gets me to the top with a lot more energy in reserve. Slower pace for me equals more steps equals more energy burned. A faster, longer stride for me, personally, is just more efficient.

Downhill is when I slow it down, take smaller steps b/c it bangs the heck outta my knees.

[Wags]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rest_step

anytime i see 'locking the knee' associated w/ movement makes me shudder... thanks for the feedback so far

[Lyle]

i decided to put that idea into the "this will potentially seriously injure you" box.




I rest step all the time, and there is no pounding of the knee joint if done properly.


i just let my breathing control how fast i go up a hill.


why is all the talk about uphill climbs and joint problems? The down-hills are what, IMO, causes the joint problems - uphills are just a cardio thing, from my experience.


The rest step can be used for downhill also, just not as easily.


I actually find that kicking it up a gear on inclines gets me to the top with a lot more energy in reserve. Slower pace for me equals more steps equals more energy burned. A faster, longer stride for me, personally, is just more efficient.

Gotta love the absolute consensus one gets when they ask a question here on WB. We all know, there is only ONE right answer.:D

[Pedaling Fool]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rest_step

anytime i see 'locking the knee' associated w/ movement makes me shudder... thanks for the feedback so far
Thanks for the link, don't think I'll adopt that style.

[mudhead]

Anyone go dingy and count 1-5 repeatedly?

[Kara]

While in the military, I've been reminded to not lock my knees while standing at attention so as to avoid passing out. I'm not sure what the link is between passing out and locking my knees...but I can't help but wonder espcially when discussng the rest-step method. It was recently brought to my attention and I'll try anything that may help me up that hill!

[TIDE-HSV]

The difference in standing at attention is that both knees are locked. The only time in my life I've passed out (as opposed to being knocked out, which has happened) was trying to drill two weeks after an appendectomy, back when that required a sizable incision. I was feeling weak, locked my knees to steady myself, and the last thing I remember before the ground smashed into my nose was the sky turning chartreuse and the trees turning lavender...

[orangebug]

The problem with locked knees at attention is the lack of movement in your calves and thighs. This minor movement is enough to help you keep venous blood pumping back up the legs and avoid dropping your systemic blood pressure suddenly.

But I'm still trying to figure out how to get joint trauma with rest step.

[Dirtygaiters]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rest_step

anytime i see 'locking the knee' associated w/ movement makes me shudder... thanks for the feedback so far

That wikipedia article is pretty incomplete and vague. From your OP, I'm guessing that you've never seen a proper rest step in action because it doesn't involve stiff-legged walking--it involves stiff-legged resting. I haven't been able to find a good online article with pictures, or a video of the rest step, but I'll try to give you a brief description.

Basically, the idea is, if you're walking up a snowfield or steep slope, you're putting one foot in front of the other, left, right, left, right, etc. There are two ways to over-exert yourself doing this. You either take long, lunging steps, thus putting too much effort on your thighs; or, in between leg movement, when you're resting, your knees are bent. When your knees are bent, all your weight is on your muscles. The rest step attempts to minimize overexertion, and thus maximize the distance a mountaineer can walk. It involves a short, quick movement of one leg, then a rest, then another short, quick movement of the other leg. In between leg swings, your downhill leg is locked out and your uphill leg has no weight on it. In this position, the climber can rest for a second, ten seconds, or just a split-second, before taking another step forward. When your downhill leg is locked out, your weight is transferred to your skeletal structure rather than your muscles. To take another step, the downhill leg swings forward a short distance to become your uphill leg, and you step upward onto your previous uphill leg, which you lock out and put your weight on for another rest.

It's really best for mountaineers going up a snowfield or on an otherwise steep or high altitude ascent--actually, this is the only way for many people to get up some mountains without killing themselves. Especially when you're at 13,000 feet, totally exhausted and you still have another 1500 vertical feet to climb; though of couse, it can come in handy on the AT too.

[take-a-knee]

The problem with locked knees at attention is the lack of movement in your calves and thighs. This minor movement is enough to help you keep venous blood pumping back up the legs and avoid dropping your systemic blood pressure suddenly.

But I'm still trying to figure out how to get joint trauma with rest step.

There is no problem with the rest step, much ado about nothing.

[Bare Bear]

As I sit here at this comfortable desk and chair..........those climbs seem far away :)
About those colors.......dude, hope it isn't an old flashback due to some illicit drugs in the sixties? :_)

[TIDE-HSV]

LOL! No, that was 1957, pre-drug days, at least for me...

[Footnotes]

Pictures and description of Rest Step can be found here: http://www.scoutingmagazine.org/issues/0410/d-outs.html

Foot Notes

[WalkinHome]

While in the military, I've been reminded to not lock my knees while standing at attention so as to avoid passing out. I'm not sure what the link is between passing out and locking my knees...but I can't help but wonder espcially when discussng the rest-step method. It was recently brought to my attention and I'll try anything that may help me up that hill!

Actually, it was the Army that taught me the "rest step" but I think they called it the "mountain step". It worked for me on my thru when I had a long arduous climb but we all know that they are few on the AT LOL.

[Hikerhead]

The problem with locked knees at attention is the lack of movement in your calves and thighs. This minor movement is enough to help you keep venous blood pumping back up the legs and avoid dropping your systemic blood pressure suddenly.

But I'm still trying to figure out how to get joint trauma with rest step.

The original poster thought it was being used while descending, going downhill. That would surly screw your legs up.

Poster #2 cleared that up.

It's to be used for going uphill. I've used this method. It works.

[Skidsteer]

Not sure about the rest step, have heard of it but never tried it, but to the turtling/resting going uphill. I actually find that kicking it up a gear on inclines gets me to the top with a lot more energy in reserve. Slower pace for me equals more steps equals more energy burned. A faster, longer stride for me, personally, is just more efficient.

Downhill is when I slow it down, take smaller steps b/c it bangs the heck outta my knees.

Wow, I thought I was the only one goofy enough to adopt that logic.

Small world! :)

[Tinker]

When I get tired while hiking, especially uphill, I simply take smaller steps. I guess you could call it "shuffling". On extremely steep sections, I've used the "rest step", and I find that it helps quite a bit.

[weary]

Another thing you can try if you're finding uphills challenging is just to do what we call "turtling." Just sort of creep up the hill, going as slowly as you need to so you don't ever have to stop and breathe. I tried this on an uphill that I found hard on our last trip, and found that I actually overtook and passed my much faster daughter, who had to stop and pant.

Jane in CT
I've been doinbg the same for years. I can climb any hill without stopping if I climb it slow enough. And yes, occasionally I find myself passing younger and stronger hikers -- but sadly, not often.

Weary