View Full Version : Hyperflow won't backflush
I took my new MSR Hyperflow filter with me on a week long section hike and just wanted to report that it has some sort of defect that prevents it from backflushing. Backflushing this pump is necessary in order for it to continue working - otherwise it will eventually "stop up".
The instructions for backflushing are simple and straightforward and I spent a good amount of time on the phone with someone at Cascade Designs troubleshooting without any success. The guy I talked with came right out and said they were expecting to get calls from people with backflushing issues - which makes me wonder.
As of now there is no resolution. I'm waiting on a callback from the guy at Cascade but I'm not holding my breath.
Long story short this means it's not a good idea to take this piece of equipment with me when I do Springer to Fontana Sunday. Barring some miracle I'm going to box it up and ship it back to REI when I get back.
Thanks for the heads up.
1st year with this product?
Skidsteer
04-28-2008, 19:35
What's the procedure?
What's the procedure?
The pump contains 2 checkvalves. To backflush, you disassemble the pump, turn the checkvalves around and pump water through in the reverse direction that the water normally goes through the pump.
Very simple really.
Just a followup, I did get a call back as promised which was a pleasant surprise. After trying some more tricks we did get it to backflush once but subsequent attempts failed completely or worked only very poorly.
End result: There is something wrong with my pump. The guy helping me said he was going to try to do an overnight replacement after he ok's it with his supervisor in the morning. They definitely get an A for effort. The person I was working with over the phone was trying very hard to be helpful did his best.
Thanks for the heads up.
1st year with this product?
Yes, just released. As in the past week or so.
High Altitude
04-28-2008, 20:14
Maybe you got a bad filter.
Tinny didn't have any problems.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQvKkqH70Zs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ei09b10Rpg
I just ordered one of these today. I saw a guy at Siler Bald shelter using one. It was amazing. He said he had just gotten it before his section hike and didn't have any problems with it. I hope it isn't a defect with them all. Thanks for the heads up. :)
Skidsteer
04-28-2008, 20:18
The pump contains 2 checkvalves. To backflush, you disassemble the pump, turn the checkvalves around and pump water through in the reverse direction that the water normally goes through the pump.
Very simple really.
Just a followup, I did get a call back as promised which was a pleasant surprise. After trying some more tricks we did get it to backflush once but subsequent attempts failed completely or worked only very poorly.
End result: There is something wrong with my pump. The guy helping me said he was going to try to do an overnight replacement after he ok's it with his supervisor in the morning. They definitely get an A for effort. The person I was working with over the phone was trying very hard to be helpful did his best.
Betcha it's the check valves that are bad.
Any way to plumb it for backwash without the check valves?
Betcha it's the check valves that are bad.
Any way to plumb it for backwash without the check valves?
I think we're in agreement about the problem. The smaller checkvalve on mine has so much pressure on it that it 'puckers up' trying to backflush.
No way to backflush it without both checkvalves. But, it will foward pump but not at peak capacity without the small check valve.
I don't want to completely knock the product - it worked fine on my section hike and never gave me a single problem - but it just does not feel like a durable, long lasting product. Then again, it may turn out to be the best piece of gear I have who knows....
(I'm trying real hard here to be fair... can you tell)
Skidsteer
04-28-2008, 20:32
I'm trying to figure out why it needs check valves in the first place.
I'm trying to figure out why it needs check valves in the first place.
Check out the 2 youtube.com videos that High Altitude posted links to -those give a great description and demostration of the product.
Maybe you got a bad filter.
Tinny didn't have any problems.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQvKkqH70Zs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ei09b10Rpg
Great videos - thanks for the links. It also confirms that I'm doing the right thing.
Skidsteer
04-28-2008, 20:56
Check out the 2 youtube.com videos that High Altitude posted links to -those give a great description and demostration of the product.
It appears that the only reason for the check valves is to allow backwashing in the field instead of the usual backwashing from a faucet.
Interesting.
Berserker
06-10-2008, 16:15
So did you ever get resolution to this issue? I recently purchased a Hyperflow and have the same problem where the small red check valve "puckers" up during the backflush. It was really bad at first where nothing would pass through it. After a few uses where I presumably "loosened it up" a little I can now get water through it during back flushing. The water does not go through nearly as fast on the backflush though. So anyway,
1. did you get resolution (it sounds like you got a new filter), and did you ever find out what the problem was?
2. is the water supposed to flow at the same rate through the backflush as it does when filtering?
I guess I'll have to call Cascade Designs and see if I can get mine fixed now too.
big_muddy
06-10-2008, 17:50
I've had that problem too with the smaller check valve. I think it is caused by air trapped in the filter cartage. Some how a vacuum is being created. I got mine working again through persistence. I've noticed that it seems a bit harder to pump water through the filter now. If anyone gets a good answer to the puckering problem I'd love to hear it.
NICKTHEGREEK
06-10-2008, 18:30
It appears that the only reason for the check valves is to allow backwashing in the field instead of the usual backwashing from a faucet.
Interesting.
Why would they do that? People don't actually take it out doors and expect it to filter water do they?
Buy what ya want but MSR has a less than sterling first year record with new gear.
I've had that problem too with the smaller check valve. I think it is caused by air trapped in the filter cartage. Some how a vacuum is being created. I got mine working again through persistence. I've noticed that it seems a bit harder to pump water through the filter now. If anyone gets a good answer to the puckering problem I'd love to hear it.
I'll double check on mine - now that you mention it I remember having some resistance to backwashing at first (as in, handle won't pump at all) but after I "fiddled" with it I was able to get some water moving through it for a flush.
Sorry I can't be more specific on what "fixed" mine but I'll try to experiment with it some more this week and if I can come up with something post the results.
Berserker
06-11-2008, 13:27
So did you ever get resolution to this issue? I recently purchased a Hyperflow and have the same problem where the small red check valve "puckers" up during the backflush. It was really bad at first where nothing would pass through it. After a few uses where I presumably "loosened it up" a little I can now get water through it during back flushing. The water does not go through nearly as fast on the backflush though. So anyway,
1. did you get resolution (it sounds like you got a new filter), and did you ever find out what the problem was?
2. is the water supposed to flow at the same rate through the backflush as it does when filtering?
I guess I'll have to call Cascade Designs and see if I can get mine fixed now too.
Ok, after thinking about it and reading the instruction manual again, my filter may actually be working properly now. The first couple of back flushes were hard where the red check valve "puckered" up and would let nothing through. After repeating the process of taking it out and putting it back in and trying the back flush a few times it started to work. Maybe it just needs to be "broken in"...I don't know.
Anyway, my main concern was with the speed that the cylinder fills with water on the back flush. The instructions answered that. They say to "wait for pump cylinder to fill with water during each stroke". So I assume this means that it takes a few extra seconds for the cylinder to fill, which is what mine does. When filtering water the cylinder fills almost instantaneously.
gearfreak
06-11-2008, 15:01
Somewhere on YouTube, there's a demo of the Hyperflow filter that may be helpful regarding the backflushing. This guy (I think he posts things under "mini build") made it look easy. At least you can confirm whether or not you're following the correct procedures. :cool:
Bull, Mini Bull. That is Tinny, and you can find him at www.minibulldesigns.com (http://www.minibulldesigns.com).
Ok, since I last posted on this I've taken the Hyperflow with me on 2 section hikes - Springer to Fontana and Damascus to Atkins.
Personally, it is my considered opinion, that (at the very least) the Hyperflow I have was a waste of $99.
It works, sort of, most of the time. It backflushes very well - if the stars are lined up correctly, my tongue is in the right position and I kill a chicken first. If not, I just have to keep putzing around with the checkvalves until out of nowhere it'll start backflushing.
...And when I say it works "sort of" - I mean sometimes it'll pump in a stream which is like it's supposed to pump. Other times it reminds me of a 75 year old man with an enlarged prostate. If I get frustrated enough I can take it apart and put it back together again and there's a 50/50 chance it'll start pumping correct again.
I am hesitant to say that "My Hyperflow sucks therefore all Hyperflows suck." because mine could very well be defective but based on my experience with the Hyperflow I could not in good conscience recommend one to anyone else.
I hate you are having that problem. Ours works GREAT! It very well could be a defective one. MSR is a great company, maybe they will help you out.:)
I hate you are having that problem. Ours works GREAT! It very well could be a defective one. MSR is a great company, maybe they will help you out.:)
It has to be defective - that's all it could be. Like I said, I won't say they're all bad because mine is but given my experience I wouldn't suggest anyone else get one.
I emailed my contact a Cascade Designs (MSR) and asked if they wanted to swap it out or if I should just send it back to REI. At one point he said they might want it for evaluation purposes since it was a new product with a problem.
I agree - I had no trouble getting help via email over the phone with a knowledgeable person. If I get another one that works as advertised I'll happily amend my story to a happier ending.
Berserker
06-23-2008, 13:56
Ok, since I last posted on this I've taken the Hyperflow with me on 2 section hikes - Springer to Fontana and Damascus to Atkins.
Personally, it is my considered opinion, that (at the very least) the Hyperflow I have was a waste of $99.
It works, sort of, most of the time. It backflushes very well - if the stars are lined up correctly, my tongue is in the right position and I kill a chicken first. If not, I just have to keep putzing around with the checkvalves until out of nowhere it'll start backflushing.
...And when I say it works "sort of" - I mean sometimes it'll pump in a stream which is like it's supposed to pump. Other times it reminds me of a 75 year old man with an enlarged prostate. If I get frustrated enough I can take it apart and put it back together again and there's a 50/50 chance it'll start pumping correct again.
I am hesitant to say that "My Hyperflow sucks therefore all Hyperflows suck." because mine could very well be defective but based on my experience with the Hyperflow I could not in good conscience recommend one to anyone else.
I can't comment on whether or not yours is defective, but in my experience the HF is definitely finicky. I used mine part of the time on my GA section hike at the beginning of June. I was out for 7 days with a buddy who was also carrying filter. Everything started off great where the HF was working really well. I had read the instructions which recommend back flushing every 8 liters. For me this is about once a day. So I just decided to make it a daily routine in the evening. The first back flush was a bust where I had some serious issues as discussed earlier in this thread. Then the next couple of attempts had varying success levels.
Well, my buddy's filter crapped out on him (old PUR Hiker...before Katadyn purchased them) so he bought a Miniworks at Neels Gap (or Neel Gap or whatever it's called). I stashed away the HF and just used his filter thinking I would work out the issues with the HF when I got home. So anyway, the dingle didn't read the instructions, and the Miniworks got plugged up (cause you are supposed to clean it regularly). I decided to break the HF back out, and after messing with it some more the back flush started working better. After getting that to work properly the filter was a lot easier to pump.
So I don’t what the point of my post was other than to just mention to others who think they are having problems to stick with it a little longer. Like I said, I think the thing is quite finicky. I’ll definitely give a better report on mine once I have a chance to use it again as the “data” collected from the GA hike was not complete by any means.
Just a final followup on my current Hyperflow... I'm sending it back to Cascade Designs tomorrow and they're sending me a new one.
Couldn't ask for better customer service and followup. Emails were answered in a reasonable amount of time, didn't have any trouble getting a human on the phone and they even called me twice.
How's the new one working? Just used my HF going thru NY very dry pumped mostly from swampy conditions. HF worked fine just backwashed it and it was a little finiky but got it to work fine. (Followed Tinny's video)
Valentine
08-01-2008, 13:44
Had the same issue. Took Hyperflow on 1 week trip. Became very hard to pump, tried backflow and it wouldn't. Tried again later and it trickled a backflow but not enough to relieve the hard pump stroke. Emailed MSR haven't heard back. Like the pump but not the difficulty with pumping only after single missed day of backflowing. Took it home and followed the instructions exaclty ( Putting the intake cover-valve back in place before collpasing pump to get at exit valve). I believe this may pump air into the filter HOWEVER the backflow is still a trickle and not sucked through like one would expect with the amount of force it takes to pull the plungers apart.
Waiting for MSR but will probably return an look at Sawyer gravity filter.