View Full Version : Bears around Max Patch NC
Just a word of caution, there is a bear or bears that have become very good at stealing food around Max Patch, NC. I hiked from Max patch to Hot Springs April 25 -27. There were several entries in the trail journal in the Roaring Fork Shelter about bear problems on the 24th. We camped at Lemon Gap and had a bear in our camp just after dark. Our food was spared, because we did a good job of hanging it high and between two trees. Campers near us lost all of their food and when we arrived at Walnut Mtn. Shelter we found out a scout troop and some lost their food. Seems the bear had not only found out he can break down limbs holding the rope but also has learned to chew through the rope if he can figure out where it is.
he has been named Super Bear, watch out for Super Bear, you will have an encounter!
ChinMusic
04-28-2008, 20:59
There was an active bear(s) in this area last year.
wilconow
04-28-2008, 21:03
yeah last year around walnut mtn shelter
Tennessee Viking
04-28-2008, 23:04
Walnut Mtn was pretty active with bears. A hiker got a played like a pinata in his hammock one night.
I was up at Max Patch/Round Mountain in December 07. From there to down to Del Rio, TN, there were huge hunting parties with radio collared dogs going after bear.
Harmon Den is one of the largest bear areas outside of the Smokies. Another one is the Sampson Wilderness in TN.
Jack Tarlin
04-29-2008, 09:32
Problem is centered at the moment at or near Walnut Mt. Shelter. It seems to be one bear.
Lots of food bags have been snaffled; from what I heard, most were poorly hung up. If you're in the area, hang 'em well and hang 'em high.
Maybe this applies to the bears as well!
Jason of the Woods
04-29-2008, 09:42
It's never a bear problem, just a people problem! They were there first in those places.....like the woods.;)
ChinMusic
04-29-2008, 11:27
Problem is centered at the moment at or near Walnut Mt. Shelter. It seems to be one bear.
Lots of food bags have been snaffled; from what I heard, most were poorly hung up. If you're in the area, hang 'em well and hang 'em high.
There is a real good tree right behind the Walnut Mt Shelter that would hold a lot of bags. You don't have to go far to find the "perfect" tree.
Moonshadow03
05-14-2008, 20:16
I just wanted to give you an update on the bear(s) situation around Walnut Mountain Shelter and Roaring Fork Shelter.
The ATC has received reports of some hiker-bear interactions involving one or more problem bears at Walnut Mtn and Roaring Fork Shelters. In addition to posting information urging hikers to be extra vigilant and use proper Bear Aware and Leave No Trace practices on the appalachiantrail.org Web site and at some hostels, the ATC is also working closely with the appropriate land management agencies – the US Forest Service in the Pisgah and Cherokee National Forests. Wildlife management is the direct responsibility of the state wildlife agencies in each state, and they are now involved with this effort as well.
ATC appreciates the information and alerts to this matter we has received thus far. We are working to resolve bear situation swiftly. In the meantime, hikers should continue to exercise caution and use proper food handling and storage techniques. Furthermore, ATC and the Forest Service is working with the Carolina Mountain Club to better inform all A.T. visitors of the situation and to encourage vigilance and caution.
Hikers who are involved in a bear interaction can help in this effort by providing a complete report as soon as practical to ATC at incident @ appalachiantrail.org or leaving a message with date, time and specifics at 304-535-6331.
Leanna Joyner
ATC Southern Regional Office
Asheville, N.C.
sofaking
05-14-2008, 21:00
guess i better get down there, get nekkid and wrassle this critter...
Last summer when I was in Harmons Den we had a little bear problem. Not 2 minutes after we sat down and started to get ready to eat we heard the bear tearing up some logs. That sucker stayed around all night and woke me up almost every 30 minutes walking around trying to find food. When we woke up in the morning we noticed that he attempted to claw at our ropes we hung the food up with but he had no success. I bet this is the same guy.
sheepdog
05-15-2008, 21:51
guess i better get down there, get nekkid and wrassle this critter...
That ought to scare him off.:eek:
I was told that a bear bag chain system was put in place at walnut shelter but not positive that it was. i talked to at least 20 hikers that said they had a problem with the bear in this area. I was also told but not sure that it was a taged bear that had been a problem in the smokies and had been relocated to this area. Not a very good idea to relocate him\her to an area like this i would think.
Flush2wice
05-18-2008, 14:07
I was told that a bear bag chain system was put in place at walnut shelter but not positive that it was. i talked to at least 20 hikers that said they had a problem with the bear in this area. I was also told but not sure that it was a taged bear that had been a problem in the smokies and had been relocated to this area. Not a very good idea to relocate him\her to an area like this i would think.
Theres a bear bag rope at Deer Park but I didn't see one at Walnut. There is also bear activity at the car camp sites along Harmon Den. I saw a shredded therma rest and a mangled can of beef stew. Harmon Den is a lot more trashed than it ever used to be. Horse folks use it mainly.
pkinnetz
05-19-2008, 17:29
There is a new bear bag system installed just behind the shelter. I'm not sure why it was located so close to the shelter though. It seems for safety's sake it should have been located further away, to avoid human-bear encounters. But then maybe it wouldn't really make that much diference. What's unnerving though, is that this SuperBear has been able to get food from the cable as well as the trees. There was a shredded food bag left as evidence. We just got back from the weekend camping there, and he's still very much around. We had planned on staying there, even knowing he was around but fortunately some hikers finally convinced us to move further north, beyond his range, over Bluff Mt.
I came through Walnut Mountain a couple of weeks ago (http://www.ioerror.us/2008/05/14/hot-springs-nc/) and the bear was still active there. I didn't see any bear cables behind the shelter or elsewhere, though; perhaps the bear took them.
The night I was there, the bear grabbed a backpack from a section hiker that was camped up the hill behind the shelter. Those three hikers were scared out of their minds. The backpack was recovered.
But the section hikers then moved into the shelter and moved their food bags to a tree next to the shelter and didn't hang it high enough. Later that night the bear came back and got all their food (but left the oatmeal behind).
And a couple of hours after that, the bear actually came into the shelter looking for more food. It promptly got whacked in the head with a log, at which point the bear finally gave up and left.
While in Hot Springs I heard that after that night the bear moved over to Roaring Fork Shelter and started eating hikers' food there.
I forgot to mention, it was good for those section hikers that I packed way too much food out of Gatlinburg. I wound up giving them nearly the entire contents of my food bag (3 days worth of food for me) and hotfooted it into Hot Springs, where the bear was about the only topic of discussion at the outfitters and the pub.
Ramble~On
05-26-2008, 16:26
Here's a classic case of learned behavior.
So long as this bear(s) continues to be successful it'll continue to consider hikers and these areas as places to find food. Having no fear of man and becoming more and more bold this bear is a major threat to everyone in those areas.
Double-D
06-01-2008, 10:10
I stayed at the Walnut Mtn shelter this past week during my I-40 to Erwin section hike. It is obvious that this bear had been visiting often as there were a lot of chewed-through and broken branches around the shelter. That night there were three of us in the shelter and another five tenting. All of us hung our food bags at least 8-10 feet off the ground and none of us lost any food. Perhaps we just got lucky that the bear had another shelter visit scheduled for that night. :)
And a couple of hours after that, the bear actually came into the shelter looking for more food. It promptly got whacked in the head with a log, at which point the bear finally gave up and left.
Sounds like there's quite a story there -- did someone seriously wack the bear in the head?
Wise Old Owl
06-01-2008, 22:42
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg275/MarkSwarbrick/Pita.jpg
4eyedbuzzard
06-02-2008, 00:16
I doubt this bear story is going to have a happy ending.:( If it keeps coming back, eventually it's going to have to be put down.
Pokey2006
06-02-2008, 02:55
It does seem like it's headed for a bad end, doesn't it? Just hope no one is seriously hurt before it does reach its end.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
06-02-2008, 07:21
Whatever agency has jurisdiction needs to seriously consider trapping this bear (shouldn't be too hard given the bear's taste for human food) and relocating the bear to an area with few trails / humans before a hiker is killed. As others note, this bear will likely come to a sorrowful end without such a measure and it will probably happen after a hiker or hikers are maimed or killed - this is a preventable tragedy.
However, I have little faith that the above will occur before a hiker or hikers are maimed or killed, so plan B:
Perhaps the club that cares for this shelter in conjunction with the state of NC and / or the forest service should seriously consider putting a steel box with a bear-defeating latch (latch enclosed in a cover small enough that the bear cannot get its paw to the latch) in place near this shelter so that the bear will no longer be able to obtain meals at the shelter. Since the bear has now figured out that backpacks sometimes mean food, a chain-link section of fencing over the open side of the shelter should also be considered.
Since neither of the above is likely to occur, Plan C:
Close the shelter for the rest of the season. This will force people to camp and the bear will likely just start visiting the overused campsites that will rapidly develop rather than the shelter.
Whatever agency has jurisdiction needs to seriously consider trapping this bear (shouldn't be too hard given the bear's taste for human food) and relocating the bear to an area with few trails / humans before a hiker is killed. As others note, this bear will likely come to a sorrowful end without such a measure and it will probably happen after a hiker or hikers are maimed or killed - this is a preventable tragedy.
However, I have little faith that the above will occur before a hiker or hikers are maimed or killed, so plan B:
Perhaps the club that cares for this shelter in conjunction with the state of NC and / or the forest service should seriously consider putting a steel box with a bear-defeating latch (latch enclosed in a cover small enough that the bear cannot get its paw to the latch) in place near this shelter so that the bear will no longer be able to obtain meals at the shelter. Since the bear has now figured out that backpacks sometimes mean food, a chain-link section of fencing over the open side of the shelter should also be considered.
Since neither of the above is likely to occur, Plan C:
Close the shelter for the rest of the season. This will force people to camp and the bear will likely just start visiting the overused campsites that will rapidly develop rather than the shelter.
That's a lot of time and effort when a bullet would end the problem quite decisively.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
06-02-2008, 07:50
That's a lot of time and effort when a bullet would end the problem quite decisively.Are you willing to risk the fine and jail time involved to make that happen? If so, quit talking and start walking......
Two Speed
06-02-2008, 08:08
That's a lot of time and effort when a bullet would end the problem quite decisively.
Are you willing to risk the fine and jail time involved to make that happen? If so, quit talking and start walking......Hate to say it, but if half of what's been reported is true that bear is gonna take a bullet sooner or later. Based on my limited knowledge I don't think there's much chance to get this animal "unacclimated." The bad part is it sounds like he's getting more aggressive.
I can't help but suspect that it was the same animal I ran into last fall. Didn't look real big at that time, maybe a yearling.
4eyedbuzzard
06-02-2008, 08:09
I would hope the wildlife management agency in this area would consider trapping the bear if possible and relocating it to somewhere off the AT and other trails completely. Given that the bear came into a shelter with people there, ripped up camps outside the shelter, ripped into gear, played bear pinata with a hammock, and reportedly moved to another shelter, this is pretty much the definition of a "bad bear". Someone mentioned previously that this may have been a tagged bear moved once already from GSMNP. Not a good animal to have near humans. Someone's is eventually going to get hurt. Sad for both hikers and the bear. Especially the bear, because ultimately it is our fault this happened.
Two Speed
06-02-2008, 08:16
I would hope the wildlife management agency in this area would consider trapping the bear if possible and relocating it . . .That's a great idea, but I don't think it has a very high percentage of success. Bear can cover a lot of ground, and if this one is truly determined to "forage" in food bags it's probably doomed. Take it 50 miles out into the woods, and it'll find some other humans to harass, if not hikers on the AT.
The sad part is it probably learned this behavior due to sloppy campers while it was young. The humans screw up, the bear pays the price.
4eyedbuzzard
06-02-2008, 08:19
That's a great idea, but I don't think it has a very high percentage of success. Bear can cover a lot of ground, and if this one is truly determined to "forage" in food bags it's probably doomed. Take it 50 miles out into the woods, and it'll find some other humans to harass, if not hikers on the AT.
The sad part is it probably learned this behavior due to sloppy campers while it was young. The humans screw up, the bear pays the price.
I know. Just holding out some hope. I just hate to see an animal destroyed because of stuff like this. :( Probably going to end by lead poisoning though.
Are you willing to risk the fine and jail time involved to make that happen? If so, quit talking and start walking......
Actually, I believe bear hunting is permitted with special regulationi in Pisgah national forest and Dupont Forest. However, I know the Harmon bear sanctuary is right around there, too. Have to catch that sucker when he steps off protected land. I suggest a 30-06 if the underbrush is down. If there's a still a lot of undergrowth an open sited 30-30 should do it.
Of course, I'm not completely sure of the rules in that area...so if ya happen to shoot the bear and it turns out you're in a restricted area make sure to move the carcass as quickly as possible.:cool:
Whoa Bear
06-02-2008, 08:58
That's a great idea, but I don't think it has a very high percentage of success. Bear can cover a lot of ground, and if this one is truly determined to "forage" in food bags it's probably doomed. Take it 50 miles out into the woods, and it'll find some other humans to harass, if not hikers on the AT.
The sad part is it probably learned this behavior due to sloppy campers while it was young. The humans screw up, the bear pays the price.
Thats why they say "A fed bear is a dead bear". Relocation may work for a season or two but to be honest with bear populations on the rise we may start seeing a lot more "problem" bears out there. Maybe we should just start coating the deer along the east coast with peanut butter and honey to get the bears to start going after them again. Can we call that plan D?
Wise Old Owl
06-02-2008, 08:59
Even out west the bear relocation gives a problem tagged bear two opportunities before they put it down.
Two Speed
06-02-2008, 09:07
Even out west the bear relocation gives a problem tagged bear two opportunities before they put it down.Any idea what the success rate is?
dessertrat
06-02-2008, 09:09
Are you willing to risk the fine and jail time involved to make that happen? If so, quit talking and start walking......
The State should do it. It is unfortunate, and while not the bear's "fault" that he's become a scavenger on hiker food, he simply does not rate as high a priority as an individual as human safety. Sorry bear.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
06-02-2008, 09:37
The sad part is it probably learned this behavior due to sloppy campers while it was young. The humans screw up, the bear pays the price.Very true. If humans had not made food easily available to this bear in the first place, he or she would have moved on to natural food sources as they would have been easier to obtain. Bears are creatures of opportunity and habit - they continue to show up at places that have yielded food in the past and to use techniques that have been successful in the past. They are smart and learn new techniques easily. It is imperative that we use excellent bear bagging techniques if we use shelters or heavily used campsites.
Stealthing is an excellent way to avoid bears because the area isn't likely to have been used recently before and isn't likely to be used in the near future so the bear has not come to associate it with easy food. If you avoid creating signal odors, you will likely avoid a bear in your camp even in areas with a lot of bears.
Two Speed
06-02-2008, 09:48
. . . Stealthing is an excellent way to avoid bears . . .and get better litter and duff for cushioning and a better night's sleep, avoid crowds and problematic wildlife*, see more of the woods, have a decent supply of firewood, be as sheltered or exposed to the wind as you want that night, etc.
I'm always amused by folks asking if there's any good campsites in GA/TN/NC. Look at the ol' topo map, make your best estimate of weather conditions and select accordingly. Takes some practice, but well worth the effort.
* I'm kinda psycho about mice and skunks. Many years ago I had a mouse do a burn out across my face in the Blood Mountain shelter, and it ain't got any better since. :cool:
ChinMusic
06-02-2008, 11:27
That's a lot of time and effort when a bullet would end the problem quite decisively.
From what I have read, sadly, I think the time has come.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
06-02-2008, 11:41
Mice and skunks are also attracted to places where they have gotten an easy meal in the past. Both are intelligent creatures that soon learn that hikers have food and / or attract an animal they like to eat. Mice learn that crumbs are abundant in and around shelters and heavily used campsites - that is why they are there. The skunks and snakes are there because the mice they eat are there.
Wise Old Owl
06-02-2008, 11:42
Any idea what the success rate is?
Thank you for the good question, When I watched a pro active Grizzly Relo near Yellowstone, the web does not hold the same promise for the Black Bear. So I stand corrected, We need to be more aware of invading the bear habitat and agressively making sure that we don't set them up for bad behavior, they are scavengers.
http://www.bearsmart.com/bearsBackyard/Relocation.html (http://www.bearsmart.com/bearsBackyard/Relocation.html)
Unfortunately, bear relocations are viewed by some biologists to have limited success. Relocated bears experience considerable stress associated with locating new food sources, security habitat, and bedding and denning sites within the release area to the extent that it can affect their survival. Competition with resident bears of the new area may lead to injury or death inflicted by the more dominant bear in its quest for, or defense of, habitat. The bears that do survive, often become a 'problem' in the new area or return to their original territory where they continue to be a problem.