Tarp / tarptent in a downpour?

[Bootstrap]

This last weekend I set up both a tarp and a tent - after two years, my girlfriend and I finally went backpacking together, and I wanted her to see what some of the choices are. It really rained hard, but I found a good site for the tarp, and no water came in from the ground.

But little drops of water came through this brand new Etowah 10x10 tarp from the top, and not just at the seams. Not huge amounts, but we decided our down sleeping bags would be safer in my guaranteed-waterproof and guaranteed-heavy tent (which has been through many real downpours). We left our backpacks under the tarp, and in the morning they were definitely a little damp, not wet.

Sigh. If I could just leave that tent behind and use the tarp, I'd be down to about 34 pounds with food and water. The tent is about 6. But she's going to have to feel really secure in a downpour or I'll be backpacking alone.

Do I just have the wrong tarp?

Jonathan

[Tipi Walter]

This is the backpacker's dilemma: How to endure harsh conditions with less weight. No shelter should allow moisture inside, except a bit of condensation which is inevitable. What's wrong with carrying extra weight for a secure 4-season shelter(like a tent??) Tarps are great for experimentation and yard camping and seem popular for organized trips with high school kids in mass. The leaders use them cuz they like to keep tabs on their students, etc.

But for high winds and wind-whiipped rain(or in a high wind blizzard), I do not recommend using a tarp unless you like getting gear wet. Even if the actual tarp material does not leak, there's always the bounce-water from the ground and the irritating slapping back and forth that comes with 50-60 mph winds attacking the thing.

Other drawbacks: Noseeums
Black ants crawling over the body and biting when pressed
The other usual insects, etc.
Excessive use of stakes vs a free-standing tent

[dessertrat]

How about a bivy for you and a garbage bag for your gear?

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

Silnylon will mist thru when in a heavy downpour. I've never had it wet-out my down bag, but I do tarp under firs when heavy rain is expected - they reduce the velocity of the falling drops considerably which reduces the misting thru. I've been caught by an unexpected storm a few times and have used my silnylon poncho hung over the clothesline under the tarp to block the mist from my sleeping and other needs-to-stay-dry gear.

You can get a watertight, bug-proofed and roomy solution for two at well under six pounds - look into the double rainbow (http://www.tarptent.com/doublerainbow.html) with the inner wall option (http://www.tarptent.com/doublerainbowliner.html).

[sofaking]

i am currently using a bivy and am looking into a tarp to supplement my arrangement...it's no fun being stuck in a coffin, unable to pack in the a.m. because of downpours...watching boyscouts in the hut pack up and leave, until you're the only person left at gravel springs...so lonely...and sad, sniff...

[Tipi Walter]

i am currently using a bivy and am looking into a tarp to supplement my arrangement...it's no fun being stuck in a coffin, unable to pack in the a.m. because of downpours...watching boyscouts in the hut pack up and leave, until you're the only person left at gravel springs...so lonely...and sad, sniff...

I was camping at around 5000 feet once in the winter, I think it was February in the mountains of NC, and a guy came in with a fancy bivy bag. Since we were all pretty cold(around 10 degrees), we hit our separate shelters and the poor bivy guy had to get in his sac at dusk(5:30 pm)and stay put for 14 HOURS! I took a fotog of the poor guy before I retired into my spacious dome tent to read by candlelight and sip hot tea.

[sofaking]

I was camping at around 5000 feet once in the winter, I think it was February in the mountains of NC, and a guy came in with a fancy bivy bag. Since we were all pretty cold(around 10 degrees), we hit our separate shelters and the poor bivy guy had to get in his sac at dusk(5:30 pm)and stay put for 14 HOURS! I took a fotog of the poor guy before I retired into my spacious dome tent to read by candlelight and sip hot tea.
why do you want to be so mean? picking on a poor little inch worm like that...

[Tipi Walter]

why do you want to be so mean? picking on a poor little inch worm like that...

The next day when I packed up MY EIGHT POUND TENT, he was the one that was laughing.

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

A bivy alone or a bivy with a really small tarp is just miserable IMO.

[sofaking]

A bivy alone or a bivy with a really small tarp is just miserable IMO.
i'm thinking at least 8 x 10, and i'm not using a bivy sac, it's a two pole bivy 'tent' with it's own fly...i just want a porch to chill out on.

[Quoddy]

I've been very happy with my MLD Grace Solo Bivy (Spectralite). There is absolutely no misting with Spectralite and I've been staying so dry under the tarp that I don't always take the MLD bivy with me anymore. At 4.5 oz, it can't be beat for dryness. In the heaviest rain I just set it up lower and stake the sides in and down.

[hopefulhiker]

Camp under trees...

[sasquatch2014]

I can't get past the fact that the Bivy sacks remind me of Body Bags. When I was part of the Sheridan County Wyoming SAR team we always had a Body Bag with us for the obvious reason but it was also to double as a bivy if we were to need to get shelter. I don't know but willingly getting into the body bag was a bit much for me. I don't want to go with out a fight I guess. Then again I hammock so I guess in some ways I am just an oversuffed bear bag.:D

[Frosty]

The next day when I packed up MY EIGHT POUND TENT, he was the one that was laughing.No offense, but I think an 8-pound backpacking tent is pretty funny, as well. But IIRC you like to camp, and hike as little as possible only to move between campsites, so massive amounts of gear that would be inappropriate for hikers would be perfect for you.

That's the beauty of it. We can add CYOC to HYOH.

[take-a-knee]

No offense, but I think an 8-pound backpacking tent is pretty funny, as well. But IIRC you like to camp, and hike as little as possible only to move between campsites, so massive amounts of gear that would be inappropriate for hikers would be perfect for you.

That's the beauty of it. We can add CYOC to HYOH.

No offense my a$$, Tipi is too nice of a guy to tell you to kiss his so I'll do it for him. Tipi is a powerful looking dude, I wouldn't diss him.

[Frosty]

No offense my a$$, Tipi is too nice of a guy to tell you to kiss his so I'll do it for him. Tipi is a powerful looking dude, I wouldn't diss him.The open access of the internet has given me more gifts than I could possibly have imagined over the last ten or so years. Alas, the open access sometimes comes with a heavy price.

[ed bell]

No offense, but I think an 8-pound backpacking tent is pretty funny, as well. But IIRC you like to camp, and hike as little as possible only to move between campsites, so massive amounts of gear that would be inappropriate for hikers would be perfect for you.

That's the beauty of it. We can add CYOC to HYOH.Well, he gets out often enough to consider his camp his home, so I'd be willing to wager his gear is the real deal stuff that gets the job done. 5lbs extra? Winter shelter? Not all that funny. Probably pretty serious and smart. The hike as little as possible part? I seriously doubt that.:D BTW, no offense.;)

[Frosty]

Well, he gets out often enough to consider his camp his home, so I'd be willing to wager his gear is the real deal stuff that gets the job done. 5lbs extra? Winter shelter? Not all that funny. Probably pretty serious and smart. The hike as little as possible part? I seriously doubt that.:D BTW, no offense.;)Holy Cow! Somebody dump some pissmeoffium in the water in GA/SC today? Or are you and take-a-knee just having a bad day?

Maybe I have the wrong guy, but I thought Tipi was the one who went out into the woods for weeks at a time, living there, not hiking anywhere in particular. For camping like that, like I said, extra camping gear like 8 pound tents and a camp chair and coleman lantern to read at night with is perfect. For long distance backpacking it isn't. Different gear for different purposes.

Reading is a wonderful art. Comprehending what you read brings the enjoyment to a whole new level.

[Flush2wice]

Holy Cow! Somebody dump some pissmeoffium in the water in GA/SC today? Or are you and take-a-knee just having a bad day?

Maybe I have the wrong guy, but I thought Tipi was the one who went out into the woods for weeks at a time, living there, not hiking anywhere in particular. For camping like that, like I said, extra camping gear like 8 pound tents and a camp chair and coleman lantern to read at night with is perfect. For long distance backpacking it isn't. Different gear for different purposes.

Reading is a wonderful art. Comprehending what you read brings the enjoyment to a whole new level.
can I get an "Amen"?

[88BlueGT]

Amen.......... lol

[Ramble~On]

I can't get past the fact that the Bivy sacks remind me of Body Bags. When I was part of the Sheridan County Wyoming SAR team we always had a Body Bag with us for the obvious reason but it was also to double as a bivy if we were to need to get shelter. I don't know but willingly getting into the body bag was a bit much for me. I don't want to go with out a fight I guess. Then again I hammock so I guess in some ways I am just an oversuffed bear bag.:D

I slept like a baby many nights in a body bag when in the service.
They're great for "cool" temperatures and rain but that's about it.
We tried to get some but found that to be nearly impossible and we always had to turn them back in. At that time the military was still using the huge, heavy sleeping bags that sucked if it wasn't cold it was either that or the trusty Ranger Roll of poncho liner and poncho...a poncho liner inside a body bag was paradise! and lightweight.

I think it was Sgt. Rock in a post a long time ago who said -
"The more I carry the more I like camping, the less I carry the more I like hiking"

To each their own. I wouldn't want to lug an 8 pound, 2 man tent for solo use but realize that split between 2 people the roominess provided would be worth it...but than again there are tarptents for two that weigh 4 pounds.
I have a bunch of tarps, tents and hammocks and would not sleep under just a tarp if I didn't have to. I know plenty of people who do and again, to each their own.
If I go out planning on putting in any kind of daily mileage I try to stay fairly light but that isn't to say a 50 pound pack is out of the question for a multiday hike as the food weight would gradually lighten the load.
For putting in 12-18 mile days I wouldn't want an 8 pound tent..but that's me.

Bootstrap for what's worth I've got a 10x12 Equinox silnylon tarp that I use over my hammocks and I have never had a drop of water come through it.
A mesh enclosure could be sewn (or bought) to go under it that would keep you and your girlfriend seperated from the bugs and creepy-crawlies.
The water that you mention under your tarp sounds like "misting" which is common. Water vapor collects on the undereside of the tarp and as rain drops hit the tarp from the top it causes some of the collected beads of water to fall. This is something that i have not had under my tarp but have had in tarptents and tents. The amount of ventilation under the tarp simply kept condesation from being an issue. If the tarp is pitched in a close upside down "V" and close to the ground where little ventilation gets in it can allow condensation to collect and later mist down.

[Bootstrap]

The water that you mention under your tarp sounds like "misting" which is common. Water vapor collects on the undereside of the tarp and as rain drops hit the tarp from the top it causes some of the collected beads of water to fall. This is something that i have not had under my tarp but have had in tarptents and tents. The amount of ventilation under the tarp simply kept condesation from being an issue. If the tarp is pitched in a close upside down "V" and close to the ground where little ventilation gets in it can allow condensation to collect and later mist down.

Hah, I bet that's it. Because thunderstorms were coming, I pitched close to the ground and fairly closed in, there may not have been enough ventilation, I wanted things good and tight. And that may have been counterproductive. I'll have to play with this in the rain in my yard.

And I keep hearing really good things about the Equinox 10x12.

Jonathan

[greengoat]

Bootstrap,

I'm a tarper however just purchsed the Squall2 from www.tarptent.com (http://www.tarptent.com) for my 6 year old and I. Slept in it last night in the backyard- sweeeet ultralight tent for under 2lbs! I think that would work well for you and your girlfriend.

greengoat

[Tipi Walter]

Holy Cow! Somebody dump some pissmeoffium in the water in GA/SC today? Or are you and take-a-knee just having a bad day?

Maybe I have the wrong guy, but I thought Tipi was the one who went out into the woods for weeks at a time, living there, not hiking anywhere in particular. For camping like that, like I said, extra camping gear like 8 pound tents and a camp chair and coleman lantern to read at night with is perfect. For long distance backpacking it isn't. Different gear for different purposes.

Reading is a wonderful art. Comprehending what you read brings the enjoyment to a whole new level.

Camping chair? Coleman lantern? Naw, that's car camping stuff and junk I'd never carry. As for hiking, I make it a rule to move every day unless I'm caught in a cold blizzard(5 days in the tent)or a nasty rainstorm(2 days max). I'm always going somewhere in particular, though in the end it's always one big loop. My biggest days were 18 and 17 miles, my smallest 1.5, and I generally average between 7 and 12 miles per day. Sitting around in a tent in the woods is not for me, I did enough of that at the tipi feeding a woodstove and hauling water.

Most of my backpacking now is in the Citico/Slickrock wilderness, the Bald River wilderness, in Pisgah around the Mountains to Sea trail, on the AT between Fontana and NOC, and along the BMT between Reliance and the Smokies. I've got hundred of miles of trails to play with but it's obvious I keep repeating the same trails over and over.

And to anyone who knows the Citico/Slickrock, to get anywhere there at some point requires stiff climbing and always a gain or drop of 3,000 feet, whether coming up from the Kilmer side or the Slickrock Creek side or the Citico side. So doing 4 or 5 miles up on these trails can often be enough for one day, and time then to set up camp and be glad for the hump. Especially up the Nutbuster trail(upper Slickrock). I highly recommend the Nutbuster though, it's a trail for the jaded and for backpackers with broken spirits, it'll bring back their faith in pumping nylon and reintroduce them to Miss Nature herself.

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

I can verify Tipi's description of the area where he hikes - the mountains there all resemble Albert mountain and I'd put the nutbuster trail up against to climb out of NOC any day. Tipi wanders around up there.

My guess in Re; Tipi's load is that since he literally lives out of his tent in an area without shelters, he carries something larger and more sturdy than most AT hikers who have the option of sitting it out in a shelter if thing get really nasty. His gear needs to be able to withstand rain being driven by 60 MPH wind and 3 feet of snow. He also needs to be able to stay warm enough in temps that can drop into the teens in the summer. Mt Washington doesn't have a lot more punch than some of those 5,000' range mountains.

Add to this that there are no road crossings with stores within 25 miles of much of the area he normally covers - so he is carrying lots of food. Several of the tops are dry as I recall so I imagine he is carrying water as well.

[ed bell]

Camping chair? Coleman lantern? Naw, that's car camping stuff and junk I'd never carry. As for hiking, I make it a rule to move every day unless I'm caught in a cold blizzard(5 days in the tent)or a nasty rainstorm(2 days max). I'm always going somewhere in particular, though in the end it's always one big loop. My biggest days were 18 and 17 miles, my smallest 1.5, and I generally average between 7 and 12 miles per day. Sitting around in a tent in the woods is not for me, I did enough of that at the tipi feeding a woodstove and hauling water.

Most of my backpacking now is in the Citico/Slickrock wilderness, the Bald River wilderness, in Pisgah around the Mountains to Sea trail, on the AT between Fontana and NOC, and along the BMT between Reliance and the Smokies. I've got hundred of miles of trails to play with but it's obvious I keep repeating the same trails over and over.

And to anyone who knows the Citico/Slickrock, to get anywhere there at some point requires stiff climbing and always a gain or drop of 3,000 feet, whether coming up from the Kilmer side or the Slickrock Creek side or the Citico side. So doing 4 or 5 miles up on these trails can often be enough for one day, and time then to set up camp and be glad for the hump. Especially up the Nutbuster trail(upper Slickrock). I highly recommend the Nutbuster though, it's a trail for the jaded and for backpackers with broken spirits, it'll bring back their faith in pumping nylon and reintroduce them to Miss Nature herself.Can I get an Amen?:D

[ed bell]

Holy Cow! Somebody dump some pissmeoffium in the water in GA/SC today? Or are you and take-a-knee just having a bad day?

Maybe I have the wrong guy, but I thought Tipi was the one who went out into the woods for weeks at a time, living there, not hiking anywhere in particular. For camping like that, like I said, extra camping gear like 8 pound tents and a camp chair and coleman lantern to read at night with is perfect. For long distance backpacking it isn't. Different gear for different purposes.

Reading is a wonderful art. Comprehending what you read brings the enjoyment to a whole new level.I was just making a mild correction to your assumptions from what I have heard. Complete with a :D. Never tried pissmeoffium. Sounds like a terrible sweetener.

[Berserker]

Silnylon will mist thru when in a heavy downpour. I've never had it wet-out my down bag, but I do tarp under firs when heavy rain is expected - they reduce the velocity of the falling drops considerably which reduces the misting thru. I've been caught by an unexpected storm a few times and have used my silnylon poncho hung over the clothesline under the tarp to block the mist from my sleeping and other needs-to-stay-dry gear.

You can get a watertight, bug-proofed and roomy solution for two at well under six pounds - look into the double rainbow (http://www.tarptent.com/doublerainbow.html) with the inner wall option (http://www.tarptent.com/doublerainbowliner.html).

Ditto on what Frolicking Dinosaurs said. I have two tarptent shelters (Squall and Double Rainbow), and use them in 3 season conditions. In very heavy rain the sil-nylon will "mist" as FD said. I have only had this happen a couple of times, and it was in extremely heavy downpours. Might I say that one of them felt like it could have been the beginnings of a second "Noah's Ark" flood it was so bad.

Anyway, it's all about condensation management. All you gotta do if you get into conditions like this are have a pack towel or bandana or something similar available that you can occasionally wipe the inside of the tent down with. This keeps the misting to a minimum and keeps it from getting on your stuff. It should also be noted that even a "bomb proof" tent will get wet inside. I have seen a double walled tent get wet from condensation collecting on the underside of the fly, and then dripping in through the mesh of the tent due to lack of decent ventilation. It's all about compromise as the tarptents will usually stay much drier in normal rain due to better ventilation.

[sofaking]

i just ordered a 'playchute' childrens parachute to make my tarp out of. i don't sew and don't know anybody that does, so i figured this will be the easier/lasier way...it's white rip stop nylon, 12' dia. and even has a few handles already sewn in, i'll see if i can use them...i'm planning on siliconizing it myself. it ended up costing @ $45 sfter s&h... they had a few other models, multi-colored, smiley face(thought about it) and even a jack-o-lantern design, but i got white b/c it's the cheapest and i figure it'll help with ambient light on those cloudy rainy days. i'm shooting for a 'luxury lightweight' set up with this and my one man bivy tent...my backcountry condo. i'll get a total weight after all is said and done, but i'm guessing it'll end up around 3 1/2 lbs total...can't wait to try this rig out

[sofaking]

i just ordered a 'playchute' childrens parachute to make my tarp out of. i don't sew and don't know anybody that does, so i figured this will be the easier/lasier way...it's white rip stop nylon, 12' dia. and even has a few handles already sewn in, i'll see if i can use them...i'm planning on siliconizing it myself. it ended up costing @ $45 sfter s&h... they had a few other models, multi-colored, smiley face(thought about it) and even a jack-o-lantern design, but i got white b/c it's the cheapest and i figure it'll help with ambient light on those cloudy rainy days. i'm shooting for a 'luxury lightweight' set up with this and my one man bivy tent...my backcountry condo. i'll get a total weight after all is said and done, but i'm guessing it'll end up around 3 1/2 lbs total...can't wait to try this rig out
received the playchute today...it's crap and is getting returned tomorrow. damn it. there's a 'vent' hole in the middle which wasn't mentioned in the ad, the handles are sewn to a border of 1/2 webbing that edges the circumference- more crap, and the stitching looks like it was done by the same children that were supposed to be playing with the playchute. time for plan 'k' whatever that may be...

[iliketacos]

my contrail tarptent did just fine in a heavy rainstorm-single wall tent with a lot of ventilation and I seam sealed/rain proofed the seams before I went out.

The trick for my tarptent, once I figured it out, was proper pitch of the tent to help the rain/water run of the more horizontal angles of the tarp.

Set up your tarp in the back yard and run a water hose over it and you will find the optimal angles for set up.

I had one of the best sleeps of my life in that tarptent in the heavy rain strom.