Trying to get lighter! [Archive]

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Bear Cables

05-04-2008, 22:25

Bulldawg

05-04-2008, 22:39

How much does your pack weigh?

Pokey2006

05-04-2008, 23:07

Getting down to a really low base weight requires a whole new set of gear and a whole different mindset. Think lightweight tarp instead of a tent, alcohol stove instead of a regular one, a suspension-less backpack, etc. Many ultra-lighters are extremely creative and thrifty about how they use their gear. Browse through their forums to get an idea of the mindset.

You could lose the extra hiking clothes. But you also don't have anything to wear for colder temperatures. Unless it's the middle of summer at low elevations, you'll also need various items like a fleece, gloves, hat and thermal underwear.

Barring any expensive new gear purchases, a few suggestions: Lose the inflatable chair/sleeping pad and go with a blue foam mat from Wal-Mart -- only carry 3/4 the size, and use your pack under your legs and feet. I'm not sure about that rain suit, all you need is a rain jacket. You only need one cooking pot. Unless you have really long hair, you won't need the brush.

Water shouldn't be included in your base pack weight. "Base" weight should be everything you need sans food and water, which varies according to your trip, hence the reason why they're left out.

I think you're on the right track, though.

SGT Rock

05-04-2008, 23:38

I posted my question on the women's board and it was suggested that I repost it on the main boards to get more input.
The situation: Trying to get my pack weight down.
At this point my pack is packed with everything except my food.The weight is at 28 lbs. This is what is in my pack:
You didn't say what your pack is. So I'll start by recommending something like this: http://www.sixmoondesigns.com/shop/shopexd.asp?id=44
It comes in at 17oz with a hip belt.

tent - 2 lb 12 oz
That weight isn't bad, I don't know what you are carrying exactly, but if you think a little lighter and use trekking poles, then you could go lighter like this: http://www.sixmoondesigns.com/shop/shopexd.asp?id=48
That would be 27oz with all the extras.

bag - 2.5 lbs
Again, not a bad weight. You might want to look into a quilt. A bag's loft is usually compressed under your body weight and the pad is your real insulation - so you could change over to something like this:
http://www.jacksrbetter.com/index_files/Products%20List_files/No%20Snivelling%20Quilt.htm
It would only weigh 21.5 ounces and can serve as clothing in camp to stay warm.

self inflating camp chair (crazy creek) to double as a sleeping pad
If you go with that quilt then you probably want to switch to a pad like this: http://www.jacksrbetter.com/index_files/Pad.htm
It only weighs 9 ounces which is a lot lighter than the 25 ounce pad/chair you use now.

change of clothes - one shirt, one pr shorts, extra pr.of socks, sleeping boxers and a camisole,
You don't give weights, I would get a set of scales and start checking those sorts of things. If you want to get light you need to think like this "Every once counts" so a shirt could be a 4oz Underarmor or a 12 ounce cotton shirt - someone going for a 10 pound base thinks about getting each item as light as possible.

ultra light rain suit, long sleeve silk thermal shirt.
Same thing - what is advertised as ultralight ain't always really ultralight. My jacket weighs 10 ounces and serves as a pack cover too, and my old pants weighed in at about 8 ounces.

Cook set - snow peak ultra light stove with one can of fuel
You could go lighter with alcohol.

, two small bowl size pots, a plastic 1 c. coffee cup
Carry one pot about 1L in size and dump the other. The cup? What does it weigh? Mine weighs about 1.5 ounces, but I have seen some that weigh 5 times that. Every ounce counts.

, film canister of campsuds a spork
You really don't need the suds.

small 1st aid kit (pocket size)
How much does it weigh? Try to keep this under 4 ounces. When I started going lightweight mine started at close to a pound but I considered it small.

2.5 liters of water
Besides the water (forget the weight of the water) what are you carrying all that in? Some water containers are 2-3 times as heavy as cheaper and lighter alternatives. For instance - I use a 2+L platy bladder and a Gatorade bottle. Both together weigh less than 4 ounces while one Nalgen weighs more than those two things put together. I'll also add that you should be very specific about how much water you carry at one time when you are carrying water - it weighs 1.04ounces per fluid ounce so it is heavy. There are techniques to carrying less water without getting dehydrated.

light weight headlamp
Again, how light is lightweight - my wife's is less than 2.5 ounces with batteries.

water purifing tablets
Good

mini size leatherman
personal items: travel size toothbursh, travel size toothpaste, tiny hair brush, bandana, buff, wet wipes and a shamy cloth
You really ought to weigh all those items and them looking at how you can possibly make all of them lighter. Like baby wipes: figure how many you use a day and then only carry as many as you need for the number of days you hike. See if you can get by with a smaller shamy cloth. Do you need a buff and a bandanna?

I have read that some people have a base weight of 10 lbs. How is that done? What are you leaving behind, what is doing double duty?
Maybe I can get my wife to post her packing list later.

Panzer1

05-05-2008, 00:26

I don't see a map or compass. I know that won't make your pack lighter, but I think you should have them.

Panzer

Panzer1

05-05-2008, 00:28

I have read that some people have a base weight of 10 lbs. How is that done? What are you leaving behind, what is doing double duty?

People who hike with 10 lbs are taking their lives into their hands. I think it can be dangerous, especially when things go not as planned.

Panzer

Pokey2006

05-05-2008, 00:53

I think that depends on the conditions you're heading into. Summertime at low elevations, you'll live, even be pretty comfortable with minimal gear. Planning to hike up to 6,000 feet, even in summer? Well, 10 pounds won't do it, unless you're very, very experienced at that sort of thing. I can't even quote a pack weight of my own, it varies so much depending on when and where I'm hiking.

But I agree with the map thing. Not necessarily the compass -- let the sun be your compass -- but maps are worth their weight in gold.

Rock had some great advice, too. Start with the alcohol stove bit, which is probably the cheapest way to save a substantial amount of weight.

PJ 2005

05-05-2008, 00:55

Lose these:

-campsuds
-toothpaste
-1 bowl
-1.5 liters of water

karoberts

05-05-2008, 00:55

PJ 2005

05-05-2008, 00:57

and

-bandana. Props on the buff... best item a trail girl can have.

Mags

05-05-2008, 01:35

People who hike with 10 lbs are taking their lives into their hands. I think it can be dangerous, especially when things go not as planned.

Panzer

A few experienced backpackers may disagree with that statement. :sun

I will say those new to lightweight backpacking may not want to dip below 10 pounds. However, I think most people can be very comfortable with ~15 lbs BPW.

Getting back to the question, weigh everything. As Sgt. Rock said, those "lightweight" items may not be as lightweight as you think. A few ounces here and there ads up to pounds.

For a traditional backpacker, this book is a great resource. (http://www.amazon.com/Lighten-Up-Complete-Ultralight-Backpacking/dp/0762737344/ref=pd_bbs_2/102-3169278-3944160?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1179957158&sr=8-2) A meat and potatoes guide to going light. At only $10, quite the bargain. It is not focused on specific gear, but rather an overall view of how to go light.

You don't need to spend a lot of money to go light.

If you read those glossy outdoor magazines, you'd think you need a $300 pack, a $300 shell and $300 fleece. You do not need expensive gear to enjoy backpacking. Often the brand name, besides being expensive is heavy, bulky and overkill for what is supposed to be for the simple joy of walking.

I refer this link to many people:
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=206678#post206678

Some additional information I will add is that you should invest in a decent sleeping bag. The Campmor down bag is $110, rated to 20F and is known as a good budget bag.
http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=86896&memberId=12500226

The bag you already own sound reasonable, though.

If you are looking for a light, compressible and warm jacket check out an army liner jacket
(mentioned in the above article, but deserves to be emphasized) : http://tinyurl.com/2dfgpk

Finally, you can read a little doc I threw together:
http://www.pmags.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=52&Itemid=33

Marta

05-05-2008, 06:40

Mags

05-05-2008, 10:25

You can get ideas by reading the articles and books listed above, but when it comes down to making the decisions for what you need for the conditions you are facing, your own experience is the best teacher.

"Experience is the best teacher, but the tuition can be high". :)

I lightened up by trial and error due to lack of this neat resources when I started backpacking.

Hopefully with some sound advice and experience (via going out on hikes), it will be less error and more fun for others. ;)

Bear Cables

05-05-2008, 10:45

I don't see a map or compass. I know that won't make your pack lighter, but I think you should have them.

Panzer

yes, i definitely have a map and compass. Too much scout training not to have those... but will add that to my weigh in.

SGT Rock

05-05-2008, 10:46

People who hike with 10 lbs are taking their lives into their hands. I think it can be dangerous, especially when things go not as planned.

Panzer

A few experienced backpackers may disagree with that statement. :sun

I will say those new to lightweight backpacking may not want to dip below 10 pounds. However, I think most people can be very comfortable with ~15 lbs BPW.

Absolutly. And by base we don't mean you always just go with 10 pounds either. Base is normally a starting point. You add to for extra weather. So my 10 pound base is what I would hike with in weather that is expected to be over 50, but has the chance to go to freezing. I've used my base down into the 20s on occasion.

Example of what I am talking about: This winter I started my thru 4 Jan, with day temps in the teens and single digit nights. I wasn't about to risk my life just to save weight - but I didn't totally change my gear to "conventional" gear either - my base, plus a few good gear choices for staying warm would suffice. My winter base went up to 16 pounds with this extra winter gear.

For the record I used an Ion alcohol stove in all weather and it was never and issue. I never needed more than 8 ounces of alcohol for a stretch - and I generally cook three times a day. I used a homemade hammock in a tarp in all weather including blowing snow, single digits, and ice storms. I never got cold, I did get cool once but put on some more clothing and went back in the hammock to stay warm (it was 6F). I tend to hear from people that tell you something won't work under some conditions that have never actually done what they tell you won't work.

For honesty's sake I'll also say I got frost bite once on my ears. I should have put on the other hat I had in my pack.

All that said, talking to a lot of conventional hikers this year - I was more comfortable than they were apparently based on their own read of the weather and how they acted. Some of the thru-hikers I talked to later that started later, with much heavier loads, wouldn't even want to be out at that weather I was in. And they were complaining about being cold in weather I considered a nice day during my first two months.

My point - one should not judge their preparedness (or someone else's) by weight. You can be smart about what you carry and not listen to the doom and gloom about how you will die.

Bear Cables

05-05-2008, 10:50

Going down to 10 lbs may not be realistic for you, given that true UL backpacking is something you really have to be passionate about and make some major concessions to do. Make it your goal to get your total base weight (without food/water) under 24 lbs (including the clothes you wear and your pack). If you can do that, you will be pretty comfortable.

That sounds realistic for me and that I can easily do. If I subtract the water my pack is 24 right now. I think I can pare that down some with a few suggestions from this board. You guys are a great resource. I get a little lighter each trip considering my first hike in 97 I carried 45 lbs.:eek:

Marta

05-05-2008, 10:53

"Experience is the best teacher, but the tuition can be high". :)

I lightened up by trial and error due to lack of this neat resources when I started backpacking.

Hopefully with some sound advice and experience (via going out on hikes), it will be less error and more fun for others. ;)

I did not mean to imply that she should not read and/or solicit advice on the subject...I'm just saying I think that is no substitute for experience.

A couple of months ago I went out with a newish hiker, who had very nice equipment, including a nice, state-of-the-art lightweight headlamp...which headlamp she set down in the leaves after dark, and didn't find again until the sun rose the following morning. I loaned her the backup pinch-light I keep clipped to my jacket.

Choosing good equipment is way less than half the battle.

BTW, I'm crabby and tired today...if that wasn't already obvious.;) Too much fun over the weekend. The Smokies are unbelievably gorgeous right now--carpets of wildflowers underfoot...floral scents wafting through the soft spring air...

Bear Cables

05-05-2008, 10:55

IMO, the most constructive approach to lightening up is to take a series of short trips. After each one, dissect your pack and look as what you brought home unused. Did you use your soap? If so, could you have gotten by with a much smaller container of it? How many tissues/how much tp did you use? Did you bring home unused clothing? Uneaten food? Did you end up carrying extra water for most of the trip?

You can get ideas by reading the articles and books listed above, but when it comes down to making the decisions for what you need for the conditions you are facing, your own experience is the best teacher.

You're right about analyzing what came back. Last summer I know I carried too much food. Never did eat all those granola bars. I also like the suggestion of counting how many wet wipes I will need and taking only that many instead of the package. I may just leave those behind as well and just use the shamy and camp soap.

Not giving up my little bit of soap and toothpaste:)

bigcranky

05-05-2008, 10:56

I have read that some people have a base weight of 10 lbs. How is that done? What are you leaving behind, what is doing double duty?

First, if you take out the 2.5 liters of water and the fuel canister, you are about 22 pounds "dry weight" or "base weight." That's a good place to start, since food, water, and fuel will vary depending on the length of the trip and even during the day.

22 pounds isn't bad, though it certainly isn't ultralight. To get down to those sub-10 pound base loads requires some major adjustments not only of your gear, but of your head. For example:

A 10 ounce poncho tarp for rain gear and shelter: saves all the weight of your tent and most of the weight of your rain gear and pack cover. (Warning: this can get you killed if you don't know how to use it.)
A 6-8 ounce torso-length closed cell foam sleeping pad. No chair kit, no self-inflator. Less comfortable, but much lighter and more durable. (Won't kill you.)
Alcohol or tablet stove, 500-700ml mug/pot, and spoon -- no bowls, plates, canisters, etc. Eat from the mug or from a freezer bag.
Frameless pack, 8-16 ounces total empty weight. Your sleeping pad is used for support. These packs are comfortable with such light loads, and often don't even use a hip belt.
Fewer or no extra clothes, beyond an insulated warm layer appropriate for the expected conditions. (Might kill you.)

Would I recommend that you adopt these strategies? NO! Going from traditional lightweight backpacking (where you are now) to hard-core ultralight is too much of a jump. It requires more backcountry skills to make up for the lack of gear. I would guess that the vast majority of ultralight hikers got there after years of hiking, steadily reducing their gear load through practice and experience. (I'm not there yet, and will probably never get below my current 12-14 pound base load. I'm okay with that.)

You may, however, adopt some techniques that might help reduce your load. You can try a lighter CCF pad, and see if you can become accustomed to the comfort level. You can try an alcohol stove and a single pot for cooking and eating (check out antigravitygear.com.) You can also try some hikes in which you bring all the usual extra clothes, but try to avoid using them -- see what kind of conditions you can handle with minimal clothing, but have the extras available just in case.

As you gain more hiking experience, you might experiment with a silnylon 8x10 foot tarp as your primary shelter. This saves almost two pounds from your kit, and properly pitched is a terrific shelter from the rain. Eventually you may try a lighter pack -- though you shouldn't start there.

As these experiments progress, you'll probably find your summer kit approaching a 15-pound base weight, and you won't really notice any difference in comfort and safety (except when you are climbing a steep hill with 7 fewer pounds on your back -- that usually feels better.)

Good luck, go slowly, and enjoy all the hiking.

Bear Cables

05-05-2008, 11:01

All of your input is so helpful...keep it coming! My scale doesn't register under apparently 5 lbs. (it's a good digital bathroom scale) what do ya'll weigh with?

Bear Cables

05-05-2008, 11:03

How much does your pack weigh?

I have a golite Quest at 3 lbs. 3oz.

SGT Rock

05-05-2008, 11:04

You're right about analyzing what came back. Last summer I know I carried too much food. Never did eat all those granola bars. I also like the suggestion of counting how many wet wipes I will need and taking only that many instead of the package. I may just leave those behind as well and just use the shamy and camp soap.

Not giving up my little bit of soap and toothpaste:)

A thing that is also helpful (since you brought up food) is to make a menu for what you plan to eat each day, and then only pack that. It is easy to throw in 12 granola bars for a 3 day hike, but when you calculate how much you eat, you will probably find you only end up eating 2 per day, so half a box is plenty. You can do the same thing for all your meals and food. I also like to have extra just in case - but you will also find that most hiking trips have a half first day and half last day. So say you pack for a 3 day trip, you probably only eat dinner and snacks the first day, and breakfast and snacks the last day. If you start with three days food (all day meals) that means you carry an extra breakfast, dinner, and two lunches - you emergency meals.

22 pounds isn't bad, though it certainly isn't ultralight. To get down to those sub-10 pound base loads requires some major adjustments not only of your gear, but of your head. For example:

A 10 ounce poncho tarp for rain gear and shelter: saves all the weight of your tent and most of the weight of your rain gear and pack cover. (Warning: this can get you killed if you don't know how to use it.)
A 6-8 ounce torso-length closed cell foam sleeping pad. No chair kit, no self-inflator. Less comfortable, but much lighter and more durable. (Won't kill you.)
Alcohol or tablet stove, 500-700ml mug/pot, and spoon -- no bowls, plates, canisters, etc. Eat from the mug or from a freezer bag.
Frameless pack, 8-16 ounces total empty weight. Your sleeping pad is used for support. These packs are comfortable with such light loads, and often don't even use a hip belt.
Fewer or no extra clothes, beyond an insulated warm layer appropriate for the expected conditions. (Might kill you.)
Would I recommend that you adopt these strategies? NO! Going from traditional lightweight backpacking (where you are now) to hard-core ultralight is too much of a jump. It requires more backcountry skills to make up for the lack of gear. I would guess that the vast majority of ultralight hikers got there after years of hiking, steadily reducing their gear load through practice and experience. (I'm not there yet, and will probably never get below my current 12-14 pound base load. I'm okay with that.)
What he said. I recommend you start replacing other things in your pack. Start by weighing everything you have and then see if you can find an alternative that is lighter. After that, then start looking at what items you have that you can change. Going to a tarp instead of a tent is sometimes best done by taking both so you can sleep with just the tarp - and if you find you cannot hack it then you have your tent available.

I also recommend you go through everything else and leave your pack for last. If you go the other way you could tear up your ultralight pack trying to get light. You can also end up with a pack that isn't right for the load you end up with.

Bear Cables

05-05-2008, 11:05

I have a golite Quest at 3 lbs. 3oz.

I correct myself... the women's Quest is 2 lbs.15oz

SGT Rock

05-05-2008, 11:06

Postal scale. It reads to grams and 1/10th of an ounce. It was one of my most important gear purchases.

SGT Rock

05-05-2008, 11:10

I correct myself... the women's Quest is 2 lbs.15oz
Something to note. Some gear is over-built for the individual. At one point I had a phobia about modifying gear - but now I usually get a piece of gear and look at it to see what I don't need or will never use. Then I take a pair of scissors to it.

I'm not saying that your pack needs it, but something to look at are things like straps, labels, extra buckles and such you never use. I've trimmed packs, shelters, pads, stoves, and all sorts of other gear. Just something to be aware of when going lighter. My wife thinks it is hilarious that the first thing I do with any backpacking gear now is get out a pocket knife and start cutting at it. Nothing in my pack has a tag or label anymore. That may seem small, but every gram counts.

Bear Cables

05-05-2008, 11:13

What he said. I recommend you start replacing other things in your pack. Start by weighing everything you have and then see if you can find an alternative that is lighter. After that, then start looking at what items you have that you can change. Going to a tarp instead of a tent is sometimes best done by taking both so you can sleep with just the tarp - and if you find you cannot hack it then you have your tent available.

I also recommend you go through everything else and leave your pack for last. If you go the other way you could tear up your ultralight pack trying to get light. You can also end up with a pack that isn't right for the load you end up with.

I like the idea of the tarp and back up tent. I do have a very light weight 8x10 fly tarp that I can pitch. I'll take both and try the tarp as a tent. If I am okay with that (I'll try not to think about creepy crawlers) then I can leave the tent next trip.

SGT Rock

05-05-2008, 11:16

ofthearth

05-05-2008, 11:16

For the record I used an Ion alcohol stove in all weather and it was never and issue. I never needed more than 8 ounces of alcohol for a stretch - and I generally cook three times a day.

My point - one should not judge their preparedness (or someone else's) by weight. You can be smart about what you carry and not listen to the doom and gloom about how you will die.

??????? How much alcohol did you use per meal? How much trouble getting stove started? (Usually my biggest problem) Is an Ion different than a regular al. stove for starting?

Bulldawg

05-05-2008, 11:22

One thing that I have decided to do is to test the limits of your gear at home. What I mean is this. I just recently did a small 2 day (I had planned on 3 but was faster than I thought) section in Georgia. The lows were forecast to be around 50, so I figured on 45*F in the higher elevations. I did not take my underquilt (I do the hammock thing) but did take my gossamer gear wide pad. When I woke up Friday morning I was drenched in sweat as was the bag and the pad. Now I do not know if I could have gotten by without the pad, but had I tested at home, I would have known.

Also what Rock said about the food. I seem to always carry entirely too much food, ask Two Speed if you don't believe me. I have this fear of being hungry. This trip I had planned out a menu as Rock suggests. I tried to get my calorie count up to the 2000-2500 per day level. But for me, on these short hikes, I just never ever eat that much. I ended up bringing back as much as I took. While I agree on having a backup meal, just in case, I have decided to make my food my number one priority from here forward when it comes to lightening my load.

BTW, my MAX weight during this hike was around 33 pounds, water and food included. And this was when I watered up at a shelter because my original plan had me camping away from a water source on the first night. I will NEVER make camp with less than 3 quarts of water. I figure my base 3 season weight to be around 18-20 pounds sans food and water. Add about 5 pounds to that to get out in temps below 40 (underquilt, extra set of thermals, balaclava, and extra pair of socks)

SGT Rock

05-05-2008, 11:29

??????? How much alcohol did you use per meal? How much trouble getting stove started? (Usually my biggest problem) Is an Ion different than a regular al. stove for starting?
I generally used 0.5 ounces per meal, but not always, sometimes it was less.

Breakfast was coffee and grits. I would normally go with 600ml of water. I'd use 240ml for the grits and the rest would be for the coffee. Fuel would be 0.5 oz.

Lunch would be hot soup, mashed potatoes, ramen, or sometimes a mix. I would also often add melted chese sandwiches to these meals by putting cheese in pocket bread and putting it on the lid of my pot. I would normally only use about 0.33 ounces of fuel for lunch.

Dinner was usually a Liptons with instant pudding for desert. Sometimes I would do hot tea and sometimes I would just put tea bags into a water bottle to make cold tea. I would also often have cheese, sausage, and bread with dinner. Normally it would ony require me to heat about 450ml of water and I could cook these meals with about 0.5 ounces of fuel, but sometimes needed more based on weather, drinks, type of food (red beans and rice takes a little more fuel).

Not every day was the same. Some days had cold lunch and larger dinners. But, on the average, I used about 1.5 ounces a day. My longest stretch between supply points was 5 days - which made me need about need about 7.5 ounces of fuel. I used a fuel bottle that only carries about 10.5 ounces and the lest amount I ever entered town with was about 2 ounces. There was this one really cold night where I heated tea, dinner, and a water bottle and used 1.5 ounces that night just on the evening meal during that section.

The Ion stove lights just about like any other, but it is slow - painfully slow to some. I occasionally get complaints from people that say it isn't working because it doesn't boil water in 4 minutes. But BPL verified my studies on this stove - they found that the average boil with this stove (2 cups of water) takes between 0.3-0.4 ounces of alcohol but takes about 15 minutes to do so. I would just start the stove and do something else for 15 minutes - I never found a slow time to be an issue and only once in that winter trip did I want water done faster - and that night was the night I used up 1.5 ounces for the evening meal. It was 13F with blowing snow, 40mph winds, and my water was freezing in the containers as I was making my hot food and water.

Gray Blazer

05-05-2008, 11:36

I also don't know where you normally hike Rhonda. When I lived in LA, there were not a lot of good places to go. One of the best ways to stay cool on a hot, muggy, LA night.

Sarge, is that Lower Alabama you're talking about?

Rhonda I'm impressed you bring alcohol wipes. I find them not only useful for a little self-hygiene, but, I also use them to clean my cookware/eating ware. Don't have to worry about soap polluting or messing up the water supply. Also requires little or no water so it can be saved for other purposes.

SGT Rock

05-05-2008, 11:37

Look at her profile. LA = Louisiana

Mags

05-05-2008, 11:39

Base is normally a starting point. You add to for extra weather.

Indeed. For shoulder season backpacks, I'll often thrown in my thermwrap and an extra hat. When I backpack in New England this Fall (knock on wood!), I'll probably take a slightly heavier rain jacket than the Wisp. (Cold, consistent rain may happen... unlike Colorado)

Base Pack Weight is just that..a base. Something to build upon.

I will stand by my assertion that there are only two real "rules" for backpacking. Be Safe and have fun! Those parameters differ for each hiker and everything else is just details.

Gray Blazer

05-05-2008, 11:42

Look at her profile. LA = Louisiana

Doh! (Hitting cener of forehead where there is already a rather large indentation.)

Mags

05-05-2008, 11:46

I did not mean to imply that she should not read and/or solicit advice on the subject...I'm just saying I think that is no substitute for experience.

Oh I agree...that's why I said " Hopefully with some sound advice and experience (via going out on hikes), it will be less error and more fun for others"

I also think the overall "philosophy" of going lightweight is more important than discussing specific equipment. Believe me, I am not a gear wonk. Knowing how to go light and why to go light is more important than some boiler plate gear list put out by some web site, gear company or a loony from Colorado.

It is a tango. Just going out willy nilly is no fun. Trust me. But, you do have to get out there...

Finally I think we can all agree that enjoying the spring wildflowers is better than reading about it. :sun

SGT Rock

05-05-2008, 11:52

I also think the overall "philosophy" of going lightweight is more important than discussing specific equipment. Believe me, I am not a gear wonk. Knowing how to go light and why to go light is more important than some boiler plate gear list put out by some web site, gear company or a loony from Colorado.

Roger that. I was planning to get a job at the outfitters until I realized I didn't have a clue about 90% of the stuff in there and probably wouldn't know what they had that I would recommend.

But in hindsite it still might be a fun job to have in retirement. They are a good outfitters.

Bear Cables

05-05-2008, 15:23

If you are looking for a light, compressible and warm jacket check out an army liner jacket
(mentioned in the above article, but deserves to be emphasized) : http://tinyurl.com/2dfgpk

The jacket looks like a good find. How warm is it ? Can't beat the price.

Bear Cables

05-05-2008, 15:27

I also don't know where you normally hike Rhonda. When I lived in LA, there were not a lot of good places to go. What few trails there were in LA required good bug protection for a good part of the year. I was living in LA when I switched to a hammock which was light, fended off bugs, and was very comfortable. One of the best ways to stay cool on a hot, muggy, LA night.

I'm from south Louisiana , 25 miles north of New Orleans. Can you say flat and muggy! We have to travel either up to central LA or MS and AL to hike something with a change of terrain. I get up to the mountians once or twice a summer. This year we are doing NOC to Clingmans Dome area starting on June 5. We think we will hike about 8 days.

Bear Cables

05-05-2008, 15:38

Okay, I purchased a postal scale, came home,emptied my pack and started weighing. Keeping in mind some of ya'll great suggestions, I changed out types of water carriers, switched to stuff bags without clips, counted out exact needs of wipes, clothes etc. With just those few changes my load, minus food and water, is at 19.8 lbs.:bananaI can hike with this. Hopefully with good planning on food I can stay in the upper 20s but definitely lighter than last summer.

We are hiking about the same time of year we did last summer so I doubt i'll need anything warmer than a thermal shirt with my rain jacket and my rain pants can double as long pants if i need them. I don't think I want to be an ultra light hiker but at least my weight is getting lighter and lighter.

SGT Rock

05-05-2008, 15:42

Mags

05-05-2008, 16:04

The jacket looks like a good find. How warm is it ? Can't beat the price.

Pretty warm. Somewhere between 200 wt and 300 wt fleece I'd say, but a bit more wind resistant. They run large. You may also want to sew up the pits a bit. If you are really handy with sewing, adding an elastic band to the cuffs and waist would probably be useful, too.

Overall, though, it is a fine budget jacket. I have the jacket, but don't wear it as I bought it after I bought a much more $$$ Montbell one at the last minute. I plan on modifying the liner jacket a bit for grins. I do wear the similar liner pants for car camping and "social" backpacks and find them very warm.

Even without modifying, it is a great jacket for the price. As the neck opens a bit, you may want to wear it with a balaclava in colder weather.

BTW: Being under 20 lbs BPW is pretty darn good. You are well on your way to getting lighter. Now, just get out an enjoy it. :)

Footslogger

05-05-2008, 16:09

SGT Rock

05-05-2008, 16:10

===================

...and if you are the least bit handy with Microsoft Excel you can built a spreadsheet that acts as a "virtual" backpack load. Every time you select/add and item the spreadsheet gives you a running total of total weight. It even can allow for multiple items. I did that back in 2002 when I was getting ready for my thru and it was a real eye-opener. Like Rock said earlier - - every ounce (although he said GRAM) counts !!

'Slogger
I've said it both ways in this thread ;)

There are also some already made spreadsheets available if you have Microsloth excel.

Bear Cables

05-05-2008, 16:17

Good to go. Now what you should do is post a list of everything in your pack with the weights. I know it sounds like a lot but - we have some people that have looked at item X and found ways to do it lighter, there are lots of ways to do this that you may not have thought about yet.

Okay, here's eveything

Pack - 2lb. 10 oz
Tent with poles,stakes,footprint and stuff sack -3lbs.13 oz
Bag in stuff sack - 2 lbs. 12 oz
chair/sleeping pad - 1lbs 15 oz
rain gear - jacket and pants - 12.7 oz
1st aid -8 bandaids, 4 butterfly bandages,2 tounge depressor splints,mini roll gauze,mini tape, 6 antiseptic wipes, mini tube of antibiotic ointment.mini bottle of "red bug dust" 9 oz.( will add a small ace bandage)
kitchen set - 1 can snow peak fuel, snow peak pocket stove, 2 sm. bowl size pots, 1 1cup plastic coffee cup, a small lighter,film canister of campsuds -1 lb 11oz
clothes - 1 pr shorts, 1 shirt,1 thermal long sleeve shirt, sleeping clothes, 1 pr socks -1 lb 5 oz.
toiletries - travel toothpaste and travel toothbrush, 8 wet wipes, two 1 oz tubes of sunscreen, mini tube of off mosquito repellent - 10 oz.
Pillow - 7.2 oz (could use my clothes and stuff sack for a pillow)
pack cover and a collaspable water bucket - 7.3 oz
small nylon tarp (my luxury item) - 1 lb.
map and guide book pages - 5 oz.
water containers - one 1 3/4 liter playtapus, one 22oz self filtering bottle and 2 22oz gatorade bottles - 11.4 oz
misc.- mini leatherman,reading glasses,mini brush, buff, bandana,headlamp-1lb 5 oz.
Total weight - 19 lbs 13 oz.

SGT Rock

05-05-2008, 16:30

Okay, here's eveything

Pack - 2lb. 10 oz
Tent with poles,stakes,footprint and stuff sack -3lbs.13 oz
Bag in stuff sack - 2 lbs. 12 oz
chair/sleeping pad - 1lbs 15 oz
rain gear - jacket and pants - 12.7 oz
1st aid -8 bandaids, 4 butterfly bandages,2 tounge depressor splints,mini roll gauze,mini tape, 6 antiseptic wipes, mini tube of antibiotic ointment.mini bottle of "red bug dust" 9 oz.( will add a small ace bandage)
kitchen set - 1 can snow peak fuel, snow peak pocket stove, 2 sm. bowl size pots, 1 1cup plastic coffee cup, a small lighter,film canister of campsuds -1 lb 11oz
clothes - 1 pr shorts, 1 shirt,1 thermal long sleeve shirt, sleeping clothes, 1 pr socks -1 lb 5 oz.
toiletries - travel toothpaste and travel toothbrush, 8 wet wipes, two 1 oz tubes of sunscreen, mini tube of off mosquito repellent - 10 oz.
Pillow - 7.2 oz (could use my clothes and stuff sack for a pillow)
pack cover and a collaspable water bucket - 7.3 oz
small nylon tarp (my luxury item) - 1 lb.
map and guide book pages - 5 oz.
water containers - one 1 3/4 liter playtapus, one 22oz self filtering bottle and 2 22oz gatorade bottles - 11.4 oz
misc.- mini leatherman,reading glasses,mini brush, buff, bandana,headlamp-1lb 5 oz.
Total weight - 19 lbs 13 oz.Really quick... I know it is easier to put these items together and weigh them as a lump, but you really ought to look at each item as a seperate item. Here is an example of my packing list:

1. Clothing

Microfiber underwear.........................1..2.08 oz
Wal-Mart running socks.....................1..1.55 oz
Coolmax long sleeve Zip-T.................1..7.53 oz
Equinox sil-nylon stuff sack (storage)..1..1.27 oz
Total............................................. ..12.44 oz

2. Rain Gear
Packa rain jacket.................................1..11.20 oz
OR rain mittens....................................1...1.1 7 oz
ProVent rain pants with re-enforced butt..1..5.62 oz
Seal Skinz goretex socks........................1..3.46 oz
Total............................................. .......21.45 oz

3. Spring/Fall Clothing
Arc'Teryx Powerstretch Pants.................1..8.06 oz
REI Powerstretch shirt...........................1..9.33 oz
Wigwam hiking socks.............................1..2.61 oz
Wigwam knit hat...................................1..2.44 oz
Wigwam glove liners..............................1..1.10 oz
Total............................................. .......23.53 oz

4. Winter Clothing
Wigwam heavy wool socks......................1..3.29 oz
OR P300 fleece mittens..........................1..1.84 oz
Polypro neck gaiter................................1..2.08 oz
Modified Army surplus field pants liners.....1..8.09 oz
Kennebec insulated pullover.....................1..9.72 oz
Total............................................. ........25.02 oz

5. Kitchen
Plastic spoon........................................1..0. 35 oz
Evernew 0.9L titanium pot.......................1..4.03 oz
Scripto lighter.......................................1..0 .64 oz
9 ounce fuel bottle.................................1..0.78 oz
12 ounce plastic bottle for olive oil..............1..0.95 oz
16 ounce plastic bottle for alcohol..............1..1.06 oz
100 ounce platypus bladder......................1..1.52 oz
Equinox sil-nylon sack (food bag)...............1..1.48 oz
Zip lock bags - 1 gallon............................4..1.27 oz
Glass iodine pill container..........................1..0.35 oz
Plastic Vit C container..............................1..0.18 oz
Plastic hot sauce bottle............................1..0.49 oz
Pot Cozy.............................................. ..1..0.88 oz
Ion stove w/stand and windscreen..............1..0.95 oz
Gatorade bottle with cord and snap link.......1..2.08 oz
Gatorade bowl with cozy..........................1..2.19 oz
Total............................................. .........19.22 oz

6. Miscelaneous Stuff
First aid kit with repair kit and batteries..1..5.16 oz
Bag for fire starter..............................1..0.07 oz
Equinox sil-nylon stuff sack..................1..0.60 oz
Card for data case.............................1..0.18 oz
1 GB data card..................................2..0.14 oz
Total............................................. .....6.15 oz

7. Hygiene
Zip lock bag.....................................1..0.25 oz
Towel mitten....................................1..0.78 oz
1 oz bottle (for soap).........................1..0.28 oz
toothbrush and toothpaste tube w/bag..1..0.46 oz
Total............................................. ......1.77 oz

8. Navigation
Zip lock bag - 1 gallon............................................ ...1..0.32 oz
Zipka Plus Headlamp w/Lithium batteries.......................1..1.91 oz
paper (for trail journal).......................................... ....1..1.38 oz
Pen............................................... ........................1..0.46 oz
Map............................................... .......................2..5.65 oz (average)
Guide book section (homemade fom ALDHA Companion)..1..0.53 oz
Mapdanna.......................................... ...............1..1.59 oz
Total............................................. ......11.84 oz

9. Rucksack, Sleeping, and Shelter
Moonbow Gearskin sil-nylon pack........................1..22.47 oz
Equinox sil-nylon stuff sack (for quilts).................1...1.06 oz
Hennessy Tarp with triptese line..........................1...8.41 oz
Hennessy A-Sym ultralight hammock w/snake skins..1..23.11 oz
JRB No sniveler quilt...........................................1. .18.02 oz
Trash compactor bag (pack liner).........................1...2.26 oz
Custom enzolite mummy sleeping pad....................1...9.61 oz
Stake bag and cord...........................................1.. .2.51 oz
Plastic lawn stakes............................................ 4...0.42 oz
Total............................................. ....................87.88 oz

10. Fall/Spring Hammock Gear
Hungry Howie down quilt.....................................1..17.70 oz
JRB Shock cord system.......................................1...1 .20 oz
Total............................................. .....................18.90 oz

11. Winter Hammock Gear
JRB Weathershield top and bottom........................1..14.42 oz
JRB stuff sack.............................................. .....1...0.49 oz
Space blanket emergency ground cloth..................1...0.95 oz
Total............................................. .....................15.87 oz

12. Luxury items
Recharge cable............................................. .....1..0.57 oz
Headphones........................................ ..............1..0.49 oz
Total............................................. ......................1.06 oz

13. Consumables
Fire starter........................................... ............6..0.71 oz
Dr Bronners Soap.............................................. .6..0.71 oz
Toilet Paper............................................. .........6..1.26 oz
Iodine and Vit C pills..........................................10. .0.28 oz
Toothpaste........................................ ..............30..0.75 oz
Food (2.01 pounds per day average)....................6..194.50 oz
Alcohol fuel.............................................. .........6..7.10 oz
Water............................................. .................1..24.32 oz
Drinking alcohol........................................... .......6..16.70 oz
Total............................................. ....................256.33 oz

14. Clothing Worn and Gear Carried
New Ballance Running shoes................................1..28.27 oz
Wedding Ring.............................................. ......1...0.11 oz
Wal-Mart running socks......................................1...1.5 5 oz
Whiteblaze wicking shirt......................................1...5.6 5 oz
Microfiber underwear......................................... .1...2.08 oz
Nylon shorts............................................ .........1...3.71 oz
Whiteblaze hat............................................... ...1..3.18 oz
ID/Money/credit cards........................................1...2 .47 oz
Scripto lighter........................................... ........1...0.64 oz
Small Swiss Army knife........................................1...0 .64 oz
Timex Expidetion watch (with digital compass)........1...1.27 oz
Dog tags.............................................. ............1...0.95 oz
Hiking poles with rubber tips................................1..19.43 oz
100 MPH tape on poles.......................................1...2. 97 oz
GenX 6.6 MP camera with battery and 1GB card......1...5.94 oz
Soap dish (camera case).....................................1...1.31 oz
Ultrapod camera tripod........................................1... 1.73 oz
Map............................................... ..................1...2.83 oz (average)
Guide book.............................................. ..........1...0.18 oz
Zip lock bag (map case) - 1 gallon........................1...0.32 oz
Total............................................. .....................85.23 oz

1. Clothing...................................12.44 oz
2. Rain Gear.................................21.45 oz
3. Spring/Fall Clothing....................23.53 oz
4. Winter Clothing.........................25.02 oz
5. Kitchen...................................19.22 oz
6. Miscellaneous Stuff.....................6.15 oz
7. Hygiene....................................1.77 oz
8. Navigation...............................11.84 oz
9. Rucksack, Sleeping and Shelter...87.88 oz
10. Spring/Fall Hammock Gear........18.90 oz
11. Winter Hammock Gear.............15.87 oz
12. Luxury Items..........................1.06 oz
Dry weight - Summer...................10.11 pounds
Dry weight - Spring/Fall................12.77 pounds
Dry weight - Winter.....................15.32 pounds

Consumable weight.......................16.02 pounds

Start pack weight........................31.34 pounds

Starting FSO Weight.....................37.67 pounds
Also, this is a slightly older packing list. It does not accuratly describe my pack today - but it is close.

the_iceman

05-05-2008, 16:45

For me 2.5 liters is about right and maybe 3 on hot days. 3 liters weighs 6.5 lbs but it diminishes the moment you start drinking.

Last year was a drought year and you had to carry a lot to survive.

Some people carry 40lb packs and are happy some whine at 20 lbs. If you have an unlimited budget then re-outfit otherwise start with what you have and send stuff home as you tune up.

There is not "right" setup that fits everyone. You may get a lighter pack but it may not be as comfortable making the hike less enjoyable.

You could use a tarp instead of a tent and deal with bugs and water and all the other crap.

You could go with an alcohol stove but I like to cook not not heat and eat and love my jetboil.

Get the best gear you can afford. Do not be stingy on the bag or the pack. Everything else will work out.

Remember the less you carry the happier you are hiking but the more you carry the happier you are camping. :D

the_iceman

05-05-2008, 16:49

Check out the Big Agnes Seedhouse SuperLight.

A 2 man is a pound lighter than the one you list. It has a roomy vestibule and is huge for 1 person. You would not need the extra tarp you list saving 2 pounds and getting a GREAT tent.

Mags

05-05-2008, 17:06

Why a tarp AND a tent? You are carrying almost 5 lbs of shelter.

I do not know your budget, but tarptent.com and sixmoondesigns.com make some nice tents that are pretty light. You could shave off over 2 lbs by swapping out the shelter. At the very least, you could ditch the tarp.

Chair/sleeping pad of almost two pounds. Ouch. A foam pad such a ridge rest, cut down, weighs less than 10 oz and is reasonably comfortable.

I notice you have a LOT of water bottles and a water bucket. Why not Two 1 qt Gatorade bottles and something like a Nalgene canteen? ~5 oz total for 5 liters of water carrying capacity. This is what I use in my Western hikes which tend to be dryer than the AT.

I would get rid of the pillow and use the clothes in the stuff sack.

Pokey2006

05-05-2008, 17:38

I still think you need another layer, or a fleece/down jacket. It can get cold at 6,000 feet, even in the summertime.

Pokey2006

05-05-2008, 17:41

And lose the tent footprint and tarp and Gatorade bottles.

Bear Cables

05-05-2008, 17:59

Why a tarp AND a tent? You are carrying almost 5 lbs of shelter.

Chair/sleeping pad of almost two pounds. Ouch. A foam pad such a ridge rest, cut down, weighs less than 10 oz and is reasonably comfortable.

I would get rid of the pillow and use the clothes in the stuff sack.

I carry the tarp because I have a "thing" about having a rainfall and trying to cook when in camp. What to ya'll do about cooking and eating in the rain? I don't want to cook or eat in a shelter.:(

I guess I could use a z rest foam pad and use it as a sit-upon. It can easily bend to create a back when rested up against a log.:-?

Bear Cables

05-05-2008, 18:00

I still think you need another layer, or a fleece/down jacket. It can get cold at 6,000 feet, even in the summertime.

do you think I need that for the second week of June?

sofaking

05-05-2008, 18:25

do you think I need that for the second week of June?
anything over 5000' is a whole different ballgame...

SGT Rock

05-05-2008, 18:27

do you think I need that for the second week of June?
I have needed a warm top in August up in the Smokies.

TIDE-HSV

05-05-2008, 18:34

Sarge, is that Lower Alabama you're talking about?

LOL. He is from UA (upper AL), and pulls for UA... :)

Bulldawg

05-05-2008, 18:51

I have been in the smokies (not hiking) in August as well and needed a lightweight jacket when just out of the truck for a few minutes. When he says
anything over 5000' is a whole different ballgame he is 110% right. Even at 4500 feet this past week, it was pretty cool at times. 80*F at 1500 feet in Thursday afternoon and 61*F with 20-25 mph winds at 4500 feet. So don't skimp even in the summer if going high.

Odd Thomas

05-05-2008, 19:49

I've said it both ways in this thread ;)

There are also some already made spreadsheets available if you have Microsloth excel.

Most work in Gnumeric as well, free.

http://www.gnome.org/projects/gnumeric/

SGT Rock

05-05-2008, 19:51

Thanks for that link.

Blissful

05-05-2008, 21:26

Bear Cables

05-05-2008, 22:24

A pillow is nice to have. Bumpy clothes just don't cut it for me. I took two on my hike last year (Cocoon). Without good sleep, you can't hike. And my luxury item was my thermarest seat cushion. Good for back end and for my knees when setting up my tent, etc. Campmor sells one. Don't need a chair. Use your pad and a nice tree. :)

Don't need a tarp. Yeah, it could rain, but then alter your food. Maybe have a cold supper that night and cook in the AM. Or plan to be in a shelter area so you can cook there. You don't want the aggravation anyway of trying to rig an extra tarp thing.

And yes, take a fleece top. I'd use convertible pants.

You have a lot of water containers. One pot will do. Need a spoon. Bear bag hanging.

Why do you need tongue depressor splints?

I switched out my chair/pad for a Z rest that I have used before. I cut it in half a long time ago. It will do well leaning against a tree or log. Cut weight from 1 lb. 13 oz to 8oz.

I'm thinking that for layers I'll take my thermal long sleeve, a polar tech vest and my rain jacket. Convertable pants (I have some) seem bulkly. My shorts and rainpants should do okay or I can pack my 7oz goretex pants. I'll weigh them and compare.

Water- how many containers and size do you take. I've already nixed the nalgene. Is a 22 oz and a 1 and 3/4 liter platypus enough? I've got another "thing" about not having enough water:eek:

Splints - Broken finger or wrist. It can happen. My older son slipped in the mud and broke his wrist while backpacking in 97. Be prepared;)

Still not sure about giving up the tarp. In truth I've always hike with one or with someone in the group carrying one. It sure is nice to be dry when you eat.

All of your comments are so helpful. Thanks:sun

SGT Rock

05-05-2008, 22:29

I switched out my chair/pad for a Z rest that I have used before. I cut it in half a long time ago. It will do well leaning against a tree or log. Cut weight from 1 lb. 13 oz to 8oz.

I'm thinking that for layers I'll take my thermal long sleeve, a polar tech vest and my rain jacket. Convertable pants (I have some) seem bulkly. My shorts and rainpants should do okay or I can pack my 7oz goretex pants. I'll weigh them and compare.
That sounds good. I agree with the rain pants instead of zip offs.

Water- how many containers and size do you take. I've already nixed the nalgene. Is a 22 oz and a 1 and 3/4 liter platypus enough? I've got another "thing" about not having enough water:eek:
It could be. I hike with a 32 oz bottle and a 2.75l bladder, but normally carry one liter, and sometimes up to 2 liters depending on weather.

Splints - Broken finger or wrist. It can happen. My older son slipped in the mud and broke his wrist while backpacking in 97. Be prepared;)
Not to sound like a smart ass, but the woods are full of sticks that can be a splint. It only has to last long enough to get to a road.

Still not sure about giving up the tarp. In truth I've always hike with one or with someone in the group carrying one. It sure is nice to be dry when you eat.
If you are going on the AT in the Smokies like you said, you have to sleep in shelters anyway. So take just the tarp for that trip.

Pokey2006

05-06-2008, 01:26

I like the idea of the tarp and back up tent. I do have a very light weight 8x10 fly tarp that I can pitch. I'll take both and try the tarp as a tent. If I am okay with that (I'll try not to think about creepy crawlers) then I can leave the tent next trip.

Actually, this is a good idea, to take both and test the tarp as a tent. Ideally, you'd like the tarp and use that in the future, solving your eating-in-the-rain issue as well as lightening your pack.

The polartec vest should be good, as long as you're not one of those types who gets cold easily (like me). If you are, bring another lightweight top. Seriously, those Smokies are dang cold sometimes! For pants, you should be fine.

Another way to solve the eating in the rain problem -- an easy-to-prepare, no clean-up dehydrated meal. You can dehydrate your own, if you have the time and the inclination, or you can just pick up a Mountain House. Set the stop up just outside your tent, so you can simply lean out to boil water. Then, if it's really raining that badly, break the rules and eat in your tent (or the shelter).

Bear Cables

05-06-2008, 11:04

.

Not to sound like a smart ass, but the woods are full of sticks that can be a splint. It only has to last long enough to get to a road.

If you are going on the AT in the Smokies like you said, you have to sleep in shelters anyway. So take just the tarp for that trip.

Okay...no splints, use sticks...got it. I am going to cut weight other places and still take the tent and tarp. I plan to try out sleeping under just the tarp this trip and if it freaks me out I still have the tent. If I find it's okay then next trip I ditch the tent. I'm feeling pretty good about the pack weight. I'm at 18 lbs 6 oz. right now so with food and water I should still be under 30. That's my goal right now. Not bad... I've gone from 42lbs to 35 to now. :banana:banana

Bear Cables

05-06-2008, 11:10

Another way to solve the eating in the rain problem -- an easy-to-prepare, no clean-up dehydrated meal. You can dehydrate your own, if you have the time and the inclination, or you can just pick up a Mountain House. Set the stop up just outside your tent, so you can simply lean out to boil water. Then, if it's really raining that badly, break the rules and eat in your tent (or the shelter).

I understand that some hiker do this but I am NOT going to eat or cook around my tent. Not only do I have a "thing" about having enough water and cooking and eating in the rain, but I have a BIG "Thing" about attracting bears:eek: Maybe I have issues:rolleyes: but I really do appreciate all of you input.

SGT Rock

05-13-2008, 16:16

Here is an example I promised. A couple of notes real quick first: I carry the first aid kit, maps and compass when we go, so you won't see them in her list.

Ladies Packing List
1. Summer base clothing:
1 pr Thorlo socks............2.83oz
Equinox Stuff Sack...........1.06oz
Target Microfiber Underwear..0.81oz
Mountain Hardware Wind Shirt.3.11oz
Spare Bra....................2.40oz
Total.......................10.21oz

2. Rain Gear:
Provent Rain Jacket..........8.06oz
Pack Cover...................1.66oz
Nylon Rain Pants.............4.56oz
Crocs.......................10.60oz
Total.......................25.90oz

3. Spring/Fall Clothing:
Polypro Pants................8.27oz
Polypro Shirt................9.26oz
1 pr Thorlo Socks............3.64oz
Fleece Hat...................2.40oz
Polypro Glove Liners.........1.17oz
Spare Pantie Hose.............1.17oz
Total.......................25.90oz

4. Winter Clothing:
1 pr Heavy Wool Socks........3.36oz
Thinsulate Gloves............4.42oz
Polypro Neck Gaiter..........2.05oz
Field Pants Liners..........10.95oz
WM Down Jacket..............12.65oz
Total.......................33.43oz

5. Kitchen:
Light My Fire Spork..........0.35oz
Snow Peak Ti Pot.............4.95oz
Lighter......................0.64oz
Bandanna.....................1.41oz
Gatorade Bottle w/Cord......1.94oz
Equinox Stuff Sack...........0.57oz
Zip Locks....................0.28oz
Gatorade Bowl/Cup............2.05oz
Pot Cozy.....................0.85oz
Coleman F1 Ultralight Stove..2.61oz
Platypus Water Bladder........1.63oz
550 Cord.....................0.49oz
Windscreen...................1.20oz
Fuel canister................8.13oz
Total.......................26.61oz

6. Misc:
Meds.........................0.88oz
Equinox Stuff Sack...........0.57oz
Total........................1.45oz

7. Hygiene:
Zip Lock Bag.................0.14oz
Ultralight Pack Towel........0.57oz
Hair Brush...................1.24oz
Toothbrush and Paste.........0.92oz
Total........................2.86oz

8. Navigation and Light:
Zip Lock.....................0.07oz
Zipka Plus Headlamp..........2.33oz
Spare Batteries..............1.27oz
Total........................3.67oz

9. Big Four:
Sixmoons Designs Essence Pack.18.80oz
Equinox Stuff Sack.............1.27oz
MacCat Tarp...................13.29oz
Home Made Hammock.............15.62oz
Nunatak BCB Quilt.............26.50oz
Trash Compactor Bag............2.19oz
ThermaRest Z-Lite Pad Part.....4.17oz
Stake Bag......................0.21oz
4ea Stakes.....................1.41oz
2ea Caribeeners.................3.46oz
No Sniveling Pad..............11.13oz
Total.........................98.06oz

10. Spring/Fall Hammock Parts:
JRB Shock Cords...............1.13oz
JRB No-Sniveler Quilt........21.48oz
Total........................22.61oz

11. Clothing Worn and Items Carried:
Vasque Breeze Boots..........37.10oz
Wedding Ring..................0.28oz
Thorlo Socks..................2.83oz
Mountain Hardware Shirt.......2.79oz
Target Microfiber Underwear...0.81oz
Royal Robbins Zip Off Pants..13.78oz
Nylon Hat.....................1.77oz
ID/Money/Credit Cards/Keys....1.13oz
Lip Balm......................0.53oz
Victonox Knife................1.87oz
Camera........................4.73oz
Necklace......................0.49oz
Pair Leki Hiking Canes.......15.76oz
Bra...........................1.98oz
Pantie Hose....................1.06oz
Camera Case...................3.32oz
Glasses.......................0.78oz
Toothpick.....................0.14oz
Memory Cards..................0.14oz
Ultrapod......................1.77oz
Total........................93.07oz

1. Clothing...................10.2oz
2. Rain Gear..................24.9oz
3. Spring/Fall Clothing.......25.9oz
4. Winter Clothing............33.4oz
5. Kitchen....................27.1oz
6. Misc........................1.4oz
7. Hygiene.....................2.9oz
8. Navigation/Light............3.7oz
9. Big 4......................98.1oz
10. Spring/Fall Hammock.......22.6oz

Total Base..........................10.51 pounds
Total Spring/Fall...................13.55 pounds
Total Winter........................15.64 pounds

+ Carried and Worn...................5.82 pounds

jaiden

05-13-2008, 22:25

google docs ( http://docs.google.com ) has a free spreadsheet. it's not as good as excel, but it works fine.

Also, maybe replace your rain gear and tarp with a poncho tarp. This would cut over a pound.

River Runner

05-14-2008, 03:48

I'd suggest maybe ditching the tent and taking a bug bivy or something like the Mountain Laurel Designs Serenity Shelter (http://www.mountainlaureldesigns.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=87&osCsid=8ccb41cd2f1689c5d3e5e74ccc7384f9)with the tarp. This would be especially useful in the Smokeys where you have to stay in the shelter. You could still have bug protection. And still have a tarp to cook under.

River Runner

05-14-2008, 04:14

1st aid -8 bandaids, 4 butterfly bandages,2 tounge depressor splints,mini roll gauze,mini tape, 6 antiseptic wipes, mini tube of antibiotic ointment.mini bottle of "red bug dust" 9 oz.( will add a small ace bandage)

You could probably cut back a little here. Do you really think you will need 6 antiseptic wipes? I usually only carry 1-2. Instead of a mini-tube of antibiotic ointment, try to get some in a packet. I've been able to purchase neosporin in packets at the local drug store, or grab some from a larger first aid kit. Red bug dust? I'm not quite sure what that is - is it repellent? If not, do you really need it? I usually carry a couple of gauze squares (lighter than a roll of gauze) and half of a light weight ace bandage. The ace bandage can always be used to hold the dressings in place, doing double duty.

kitchen set - 1 can snow peak fuel, snow peak pocket stove, 2 sm. bowl size pots, 1 1cup plastic coffee cup, a small lighter,film canister of campsuds -1 lb 11oz .

As others have said, you only need one pot, and check the weight of your cup. One of those from a mess kit only weighs an ounce. You really don't need a film canister of campsuds. If you want to take some, get a breath drops bottle and fill it with campsuds and that is plenty, and weighs less than a quarter ounce.

clothes - 1 pr shorts, 1 shirt,1 thermal long sleeve shirt, sleeping clothes, 1 pr socks -1 lb 5 oz.

I agree with the others, you need an insulating jacket, at least a light weight warm hat, and light weight gloves (glove liners). You could use the shorts and shirt as sleeping clothes and leave out the camisole top and sleeping shorts. Or vice versa, using the sleeping clothes as 'spares'. There is really not much need for 'clean' clothing while backpacking other than for sleeping/camp.

toiletries - travel toothpaste and travel toothbrush, 8 wet wipes, two 1 oz tubes of sunscreen, mini tube of off mosquito repellent - 10 oz.

Consider dehydrating a few dots of toothpaste and sticking them in a mini-zipper lock bag (available in the craft department of discount chains). One bottle of sunscreen is probably enough, or try to find a slightly larger tube and save the weight of double packaging. Also, consider pure DEET repackaged into dropper bottles instead of a tube of mosquito repellent.

Pillow - 7.2 oz (could use my clothes and stuff sack for a pillow)

Use a stuff sack and whatever jacket you end up bringing if you can tolerate doing without a pillow. After a hard day hiking I can sleep on almost anything.

pack cover and a collaspable water bucket - 7.3 oz
water containers - one 1 3/4 liter playtapus, one 22oz self filtering bottle and 2 22oz gatorade bottles - 11.4 oz

Ditto Mags advise on water containers. Use a Nalgene cantene, a 2 liter platy, and the one self filtering bottle for those times you want a bottle to drink out of instead of a bladder.

misc.- mini leatherman,reading glasses,mini brush, buff, bandana,headlamp-1lb 5 oz.

Consider getting a swiss army knife (classic) instead of the leatherman and using a photon light instead of a headlamp and save a few ounces. Keep the mini brush, but make sure it is the lightest one you can find. At 0.9 oz, my mini hair brush is my luxury item. ;)

You really will be amazed at how shaving 2-3 oz here, 5-6 there will really add up.

Bear Cables

05-14-2008, 16:42

[quote=SGT Rock;621902]Here is an example I promised. A couple of notes real quick first: I carry the first aid kit, maps and compass when we go, so you won't see them in her list.

Thanks for that list. The update is my base weight with out food or water is now around 18 lbs. I replaced my old bag at 2 lbs 12 oz. with a northface 30 degree down at 1 lb. 5 oz. For colder weather I can get a 9 oz. liner to take it down to 15 degrees. I was going to pack the extra weight of the bear canister but we have decided to shelter between NOC and fontana and from what I understand all the campsites and shelters on the AT in the GSM have cables so I won't need to worry about finding a good branch late in the eveing. Still have the tarp but I'm considering taking it and just the screen part of my tent as we will be camping in a campground at Birch Springs. I can pitch my screen tent under my tarp and save a little weight.

Bear Cables

05-14-2008, 16:55

Bear Cables

05-14-2008, 17:05

You could probably cut back a little here. Do you really think you will need 6 antiseptic wipes? I usually only carry 1-2. Instead of a mini-tube of antibiotic ointment, try to get some in a packet. I've been able to purchase neosporin in packets at the local drug store, or grab some from a larger first aid kit. Red bug dust? I'm not quite sure what that is - is it repellent? If not, do you really need it? I usually carry a couple of gauze squares (lighter than a roll of gauze) and half of a light weight ace bandage. The ace bandage can always be used to hold the dressings in place, doing double duty.

As others have said, you only need one pot, and check the weight of your cup. One of those from a mess kit only weighs an ounce. You really don't need a film canister of campsuds. If you want to take some, get a breath drops bottle and fill it with campsuds and that is plenty, and weighs less than a quarter ounce.

I agree with the others, you need an insulating jacket, at least a light weight warm hat, and light weight gloves (glove liners). You could use the shorts and shirt as sleeping clothes and leave out the camisole top and sleeping shorts. Or vice versa, using the sleeping clothes as 'spares'. There is really not much need for 'clean' clothing while backpacking other than for sleeping/camp.

Consider dehydrating a few dots of toothpaste and sticking them in a mini-zipper lock bag (available in the craft department of discount chains). One bottle of sunscreen is probably enough, or try to find a slightly larger tube and save the weight of double packaging. Also, consider pure DEET repackaged into dropper bottles instead of a tube of mosquito repellent.

Use a stuff sack and whatever jacket you end up bringing if you can tolerate doing without a pillow. After a hard day hiking I can sleep on almost anything.

Ditto Mags advise on water containers. Use a Nalgene cantene, a 2 liter platy, and the one self filtering bottle for those times you want a bottle to drink out of instead of a bladder.

Consider getting a swiss army knife (classic) instead of the leatherman and using a photon light instead of a headlamp and save a few ounces. Keep the mini brush, but make sure it is the lightest one you can find. At 0.9 oz, my mini hair brush is my luxury item. ;)

You really will be amazed at how shaving 2-3 oz here, 5-6 there will really add up.

Again, great suggestions. I did find the packets of ointment and replaced the tube with 2 packets. So get a bigger platypus and use one nalgene?
I'm looking for the small swiss army knife my son had. Think I'll keep the headlamp , really like it. I'm guessing a little deet goes a long way. Could I put drops on my sock to keep red bug off?

sofaking

05-14-2008, 17:14

deet goes on skin. permethrin goes on clothing.

Bear Cables

05-14-2008, 18:15

deet goes on skin. permethrin goes on clothing.

Where do you get that?:welcome

sofaking

05-14-2008, 18:19

Where do you get that?:welcome

deet goes on skin. permethrin goes on clothing.

i could have sworn there was a post of someone wanting to know if they could put deet on their socks...?:confused: where'd it go? nevermind me.

River Runner

05-14-2008, 19:20

Where do you get that?:welcome

Available on the bottle directions. Some use DEET on clothes, but it can ruin them, particularly synthetics.

Are red bugs chiggers? Wearing long pants usually will keep them at bay, and also protect your legs from briars, stinging nettles, etc.

I wear long pants almost all the time when I hike and in camp, and I rarely ever have a bug problem. Around dusk once in a while I will spread a few drops of deet on my arms if I am wearing short sleeves. I forgot to mention a couple of the individually packaged insect wipes are a good backup alternative if you don't expect a lot of bugs.

Bear Cables

05-14-2008, 19:24

Available on the bottle directions. Some use DEET on clothes, but it can ruin them, particularly synthetics.

Are red bugs chiggers? Wearing long pants usually will keep them at bay, and also protect your legs from briars, stinging nettles, etc.

I wear long pants almost all the time when I hike and in camp, and I rarely ever have a bug problem. Around dusk once in a while I will spread a few drops of deet on my arms if I am wearing short sleeves. I forgot to mention a couple of the individually packaged insect wipes are a good backup alternative if you don't expect a lot of bugs.

I have those. Think I'll switch them with the tube of repellant. I can probably get more than one use out of each wipe.

River Runner

05-14-2008, 19:25

So get a bigger platypus and use one nalgene?

Nalgene's are really heavy. My suggestion is get a bigger platy and use your filter bottle if you are taking the filter. If not, use a gatoraide or similar bottle instead of a Nalgene. Nalgene's are good for car camping or looking cool at exercise class...

sofaking

05-14-2008, 19:27

Nalgene's are really heavy. My suggestion is get a bigger platy and use your filter bottle if you are taking the filter. If not, use a gatoraide or similar bottle instead of a Nalgene. Nalgene's are good for car camping or looking cool at exercise class...
or on the trail when you pre-soak pasta so it doesn't take as long to cook...

River Runner

05-14-2008, 19:34

or on the trail when you pre-soak pasta so it doesn't take as long to cook...

I'd say you could do that with a Gatoraide bottle just as easily and save the ounces.

sofaking

05-14-2008, 19:39

I'd say you could do that with a Gatoraide bottle just as easily and save the ounces.
have you ever tried to get 'hydrated' pasta out of a gator aid bottle? it isn't the easiest task. i've been using this same nalgene bottle for 13+ years...i think i can handle the 'weight'- i'm a virile young(ish) MAN! the only thing i need to weigh are my options! i can out-shoot, out-cuss, out-drink, outhouse....

take-a-knee

05-14-2008, 20:22

How much pasta are you gonna rehydrate? Just carry a16oz nalgene, they are a lot easier to drink out of anyway, the weight of one nalgene ain't going to slow anybody down enough to matter. You can pour boiling water in a nalgene, I wouldn't try that with a gatorade bottle.

River Runner

05-14-2008, 20:34

have you ever tried to get 'hydrated' pasta out of a gator aid bottle?

No, can't say I have. I guess it would depend on the pasta.

i've been using this same nalgene bottle for 13+ years...i think i can handle the 'weight'- i'm a virile young(ish) MAN! the only thing i need to weigh are my options! i can out-shoot, out-cuss, out-drink, outhouse...

Good for you. My response about using the Gatoraide was for the original poster who asked how to lighten up. I realize it probably isn't a priority for everyone. No denying that using a Gatoraide instead of a Nalgene will save ounces. No denying that some just don't care. :cool:

River Runner

05-14-2008, 20:37

You can pour boiling water in a nalgene, I wouldn't try that with a gatorade bottle.

I've poured boiling water in a gatorade bottle, with no ill effect, but did not cap it up. I imagine that might make it warp/distort.

River Runner

05-14-2008, 20:53

SGT Rock

05-14-2008, 21:24

If you want a hydration chamber try something like this: http://www.trailjournals.com/images/gear/IMG00013g.jpg (http://www.trailjournals.com/images/gear/IMG00013g.jpg)

Blissful

05-14-2008, 21:32

I presoaked pasta once for our mac and cheese. It was awful. Never again.

sofaking

05-14-2008, 21:52

i pre-soak pasta everytime that i go out, don't have any problems- i put pasta in after lunch and drink the 'starch water' awhile later. at dinner i add the pasta to boiling water and then shut the stove down- pasta is brought up to temp in no time, ready for whatever's clever for topping/sauce. sgt. rock, what is that container, lemonade/gatorade can?

SGT Rock

05-14-2008, 21:55

Country Time Lemonade

sofaking

05-14-2008, 21:57

is it water tight and would it fit in my bottle pocket? my nalgene does.

SGT Rock

05-14-2008, 22:01

It's sort of water tight. I don't use it to carry water normally. I use it for an ultralight coffee mug, grit bowl, measuring cup, and re-hydration chamber. I;ve done things like put dehydrated re-fried beans in it with some jerky, oil, and some water. By lunch I have beef and bean dip for tortillas. I also like to put a packet of ramen in there with about 6 ounces of cold water. By lunch you add some Italian dressing, Parmesan cheese, and other little pieces to make trail pasta salad.

sofaking

05-14-2008, 22:07

that's pretty much what my ginormous, cast iron nalgene does...when it's not holding water or other liquids.

River Runner

05-14-2008, 22:16

that's pretty much what my ginormous, cast iron nalgene does...when it's not holding water or other liquids.

LOL! :D

Bear Cables

05-15-2008, 00:04

Rhonda,

I just thought of something else that will save you a few ounces. I have a GoLite Quest, and it has proven really waterproof for me. You can probably skip the pack cover totally with the Quest.

So your Quest can weather a pretty good rain fall? I just got mine last summer and my hike last year was blessed with fantastic weather.

River Runner

05-15-2008, 14:27

So your Quest can weather a pretty good rain fall? I just got mine last summer and my hike last year was blessed with fantastic weather.

I used it in a steady day of mist/rain in April and it stayed completely dry inside (the outside of course was wet). I don't recall ever using it in a real pounding rain, but definitely several steady rains of a few hours.