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Mags
05-06-2008, 11:02
Originally I was going to post this reply on the Wild Cowboy thread..but it really was major thread drift, even by my loose standards. :).....



I'm not sure what WC was going to use for tracking, but Speed Goat Karl says he just got sponsored by "SPOT" who will be tracking his whereabouts...
http://www.spotgpspersonaltracker.com/

On a philosophical note, the continuing publicity for items like SPOT are starting to worry me.

I have nothing against cell phones in the backcountry for emergencies, or SPOT or similar devices.

But, we are getting to the point where it is expected EVERYONE should have a device.

We are increasingly becoming a 24/7 connected culture. Where the line between work and recreation, solo time and public time and is getting increasingly blurred.

If you hike solo, you are already an aberration. If you spend your free time "off the grid", you are not a good team player.

I suspect in the near future, where 24/7 connection to the "real world" is both technologically feasible AND affordable, the days of unplugging yourself will be frowned upon. Not just for emergency use, for everyday use. My friends find it funny that I do not check my e-mail on weekends and that I will (gasp) turn off my phone. How am I supposed to be reached at all times?

Even the "officials" are starting to assume everyone is connected 24/7:

Carry a cell phone.
Always a good tip whenever you are enjoying a Jefferson County Open Space park, however realize that reception may not be available in all areas.


I am afraid this expected 24/7 connectivity will be increasingly common in the years to come. Not just on a technological level...but on a cultural level, too.

Is it bad? Is it good? I don't know. But it is different....

jersey joe
05-06-2008, 11:08
You think it is bad now? Just wait until they imbed those chips in all of us.

mudhead
05-06-2008, 11:12
One is already looked upon as odd for not owning a cell phone. Joke 'em.

Green Bean
05-06-2008, 11:18
So who thinks all these radio waves, cellular waves or what ever waves are going to cause a mass deformed society in like 20 years? ~GB

bigmac_in
05-06-2008, 11:18
I carry a cell phone when I'm hiking, but do not turn it on. I have not used it on the trail, only to call for a ride at a trailhead. My hiking buddy, Canteen Boy, uses his WAY too much IMHO while we hike. I jump his a$$ about it, but we are not around others typically when he is yakking.

It's just my preference - I'm out there to get away. I kind of feel bad for the people that can't seem to put the electronics down. But I don't persecute them for it - it's their decision.

Foyt20
05-06-2008, 11:24
Working in the tech field ( I am a field tech that installs Xerox Multi Function machines on client networks) i embrace technology. I think that having a cell phone is a good thing, and actually I have 2 (a work issued blackberry, and a personal phone). The Blackberry gets turned off at about 6 every night, and i turn it off at 6 on friday and it turns on automatically at 6:30 on monday morning. I hate talking on the phone. I would much rather use this medium (forums, email, instant messaging) to communicate. But, I am not one of those people that needs to be connected all the time.
I agree that there are certian times that it is neccessary to disconnect from the grid, but i will not lie, yes i do spend a chuck of my weekends (if i am not running around or out) on my laptop.
I am not sure if it is bad or good, but it really depends on your personal view. I feel it is a good thing but my mother might think that it is bad. Just your personal prefference, and dont let anyone tell you otherwise.

HYOH :D

Cuffs
05-06-2008, 11:33
One is already looked upon as odd for not owning a cell phone. Joke 'em.
I dont have a house/land line phone... In AL, thats weird.

Mags
05-06-2008, 11:34
It's just my preference



And that is the biggest change I see. We are getting to the point where it is no longer your preference ..but it is EXPECTED to be connected.

Again, it is a cultural change.

Even on the long distance hiker e-lists, among the first questions people ask is "How do I stay connected on the trail?".

I want to emphasize I am not one of those people who think my way is the only or best way, but it is getting to the point where culturally, being connected 24/7 *IS* the correct and only way.

wilconow
05-06-2008, 11:35
When I went away for a week last year I had this melodramatic friend ask me to call when I came upon a special spot

I said "Why would I do that?"

Being disconnected is a major part of the fun. All these "Where's ____? " posts tracking thru-hikers this year with updates by the hiker every few days is a little baffling, but I guess that's just my own preference

Great post Mags

Mags
05-06-2008, 11:36
I dont have a house/land line phone... In AL, thats weird.


Pretty common around here. I know many people, myself included, who do not have a land line. Granted, I am in a college town/ tech hub as well. Changes the equation.

bloodmountainman
05-06-2008, 11:37
I am almost 50 and I got along just fine without this junk for a good 40 of those years. I will not have a cell phone...... it is useless in most of the places I travel. I once had a flat tire at Tray Gap and there were 4 different people there with these things........ it was useless. Drove to the main road on the wheel rim. My spare tire turned out useless also!!!!!

Lilred
05-06-2008, 11:42
Ya I gotta agree about all the 'where's waldo' threads that are appearing this year. Hope no one tracks me like that, it's a little weird. I turn my cell phone off while hiking and this year, no ipod. I'd like to leave the phone at home too, but hubby insists. I may or may not keep a journal on trailjournals, or I may just write my journal and post it online when I get back. All that hunting for a computer gets wearisome on the trail. If it's convenient to my town stay, I may post my journal. If not, I ain't going out of my way to find one.

Cuffs
05-06-2008, 11:50
I carry the cell phone, but its turned off from the moment I hit the trail. This last trip, I was (slightly) thankful that I had it with me. I was able to send out a text message to several folks (THANKS! you know who you are!) in hopes of getting a ride from an aborted hike due to my stupidity in improper packing...

What would I have done without the phone? Walked to the nearest trailhead, and started hitching... Yea, I could have gone with out it, but I didnt...

I do take my gps... I love playing with the tracks, maps and elevation images when I get back! (plus, some geocaching on the trails.)

Thats it for my tech-y ness

Old Hillwalker
05-06-2008, 12:04
For all of my twenty year Army career I was on call. For 13 of those years stationed in DC I had to carry a pager. Not too many days after I retired I suddenly realized that nobody knew where I was and didn't care. What a great feeling of freedom that was until I fully retired in March of this year and was freed from the shackles of employment forever......:sun

These days I have eschewed television and cell phones. I would get rid of my telephone if it wern't for internet access. I heat with wood cut from my own property and try to only get off this mountain once a month for groceries or to hike.

I'm heading SOBO June 23rd "dog" willing.

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=33697

Summit
05-06-2008, 12:17
I got rid of my home phone line about 5 years ago (at least). I have started carrying a cell phone backpacking the last 1 1/2 years. I keep it off. I use it for camera and Bible/eReader in addition to having a cell phone when needed, and only turn it on to "check in" with the family every day or two. At that time (while the phone radio is powered up) I will pull the most recent weather info where I am hiking also (very nice!). I ALWAYS make sure I'm not around other hikers when I use my cell phone on the trail.

When I leave work for a week or more of backpacking, my voice mail and email are set to notify those seeking me that I am away and DO NOT have access to VM or email. Luckily, my boss agrees and recently said for me to completely forget about "work" while on vacation! I think we need to "unplug" regularly from the stress of our jobs and I refuse to only partially unplug.

I dislike the idea of someone being able to enter a little information about a person on certain websites and get all kinds of detail and directions to their house, etc. Without a land phone line, I'm not so easy to find! ;)

taildragger
05-06-2008, 12:18
I agree with what your saying.

I lived with a guy in NY that didn't have a cell phone. I thought that it was odd that he didn't at first (seeing as I've never had a land line hooked up for me).

That being said, I'd hate it when I'd go out in the Catskills, sit on a rock with a beautiful view, then get interupted by an out of shape, wheezing couple, who would whip out their phones to check on things that they had just left 5 hours before. And then they'd tell me about how I should appreciate the peacefulness and serenity about the remoteness of the mountains (remote is one thing that the Catskills are not).

Absolutely baffling...

When I go for my section of the PCT this summer, I'll have a phone as a potential emergency backup, and to appease my GF that if she falls off of the trail that I can call for the paramedics...

And whats with this trailjournals stuff? Do people really need to be updated week by week for your hike, or is it the lighter alternative to a pencil and paper?

I just don't get it...

sofaking
05-06-2008, 12:27
:clap:clap:clap...as we discuss the cultural impacts of communication and technology via the internet...:clap:clap:clap

taildragger
05-06-2008, 12:31
:clap:clap:clap...as we discuss the cultural impacts of communication and technology via the internet...:clap:clap:clap

Sorry, my CB won't broadcast too far on a day like this, or else I'd use it, or my pigeon, instead...

Cuffs
05-06-2008, 12:31
I dislike the idea of someone being able to enter a little information about a person on certain websites and get all kinds of detail and directions to their house, etc. Without a land phone line, I'm not so easy to find! ;)

I beg to differ... even without a phone, you are just as easy to find!

sofaking
05-06-2008, 12:41
Sorry, my CB won't broadcast too far on a day like this, or else I'd use it, or my pigeon, instead...
dude, cb's are for kids- get with the hip and swinging world of ham radio! we're global!

taildragger
05-06-2008, 12:43
I get annoyed on hams, all anyone ever talks about is their ham...its boring

sofaking
05-06-2008, 12:44
BACON radio- on the edge, and we don't just mean the mexican border! AAAWHOOO:banana

ki0eh
05-06-2008, 12:48
Upstairs in our house we have a dial telephone (it's not even a 500 set; it's a 300) and a TV that's black and white with two dials: one for VHF and the other for UHF. No cable.

I mentioned these at work and was asked: "Are you Amish or something?"

(The dial telephone still works through the FiOS connection. I bet one old guy with the PUC insisted on that backward connectivity: if you're reading this, thanks! :) )

Cuffs
05-06-2008, 12:51
Disconnecting (for now!) see you all later!

ki0eh
05-06-2008, 12:56
get with the hip and swinging world of ham radio! we're global!

--... ...-- -.. . -.- .. ----- . ....

bigcranky
05-06-2008, 13:06
I was just out on the trail for a weekend hike, and met plenty of thru-hikers. I guess I shouldn't have been surprised, but the casual use of cell phones was everywhere. Stop at a spring, call into the next town to ask if a hostel is still open. Stop at a shelter, and listen to your voicemail on speakerphone, so the whole shelter can hear your messages. Mostly it was the younger hikers, of course -- the ones who don't really think about it, and who have grown up with this constant connectedness.

ofthearth
05-06-2008, 13:09
Morse Code Translator
http://morsecode.scphillips.com/jtranslator.html

fun! try it.

Summit
05-06-2008, 13:12
I quite often reflect on the fact that just 130 years ago and prior, no one had the electrical conveniences we take for granted today, like a refrigerator to keep food more than a day or two. Until the railroad came along, most people seldom traveled more than 20 miles from where they lived. We complain of that lonnnngggg 5 hour drive to the mountains, while 150 years ago and prior that trip would take 2-3 weeks, each way! :eek:

Kerosene
05-06-2008, 13:38
As a long-time developer of software products, I'm always astounded that people will put up with the flakiness of cell phone reception yet go ballistic when they have to work around a software defect (aka, bug). If I created a solution as buggy as the cell phone I would've been fired long ago!

bloodmountainman
05-06-2008, 13:43
Good to see some old timers who miss the 20th century! How did we survive?

sofaking
05-06-2008, 13:44
let me put on my sabots ...

Dances with Mice
05-06-2008, 13:55
Soldier in Afghanistan accidentally hit redial on his cell and called his parents during a firefight. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4goOzg0lass) He was way more connected than he wanted to be, someone was yelling "Incoming RPG!" when the message clicked off.

Last year I was on a week-long hike while my wife was in Shanghai on business. We called each other at 10 each day, AM for me and PM for her. So mid-morning I'd start planning which mountain I should be on when it came time to call and I'd either sit and wait or beat feet to get somewhere with reception. And, actually, it was kind of nice to sit alone under a tree looking out at a view of the springtime mountains and tell her what I was seeing while she was sitting in a high rise hotel in a city with a population of several million looking out her window and telling me what she was seeing. Then I'd turn the phone off until the next day because she was the only person in the world I wanted to talk to. And after our call I didn't worry about her and she wouldn't have to worry about me. Honestly, I remember those times as some of the nicest parts of the trip.

Mags
05-06-2008, 14:00
:clap:clap:clap...as we discuss the cultural impacts of communication and technology via the internet...:clap:clap:clap


True. But I won't be discussing this via the Internet when I am backpacking :D

sofaking
05-06-2008, 14:05
True. But I won't be discussing this via the Internet when I am backpacking :D
i wasn't ragging you, i was just enjoying the irony

Mags
05-06-2008, 14:08
i wasn't ragging you, i was just enjoying the irony


http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/2710871/2/istockphoto_2710871_ironing_incl_jpeg.jpg

Pressed pants are always good!

sofaking
05-06-2008, 14:13
hah! i tried that once...never did figure out the point of ironing...

Mags
05-06-2008, 14:14
I the ones who don't really think about it, and who have grown up with this constant connectedness.


And that's why I think in the very near future, it will be expected to be connected 24/7. Again, it is a new culture. Where the line between work/social time is being blurred. Where being connected/disconnected is being blurred as well. It is just assumed you can work and be available to work at all times. It is expected you will always have access to your phone.

I forgot my phone at home today. A few years ago, it would have been normal to go to work, go on my after work hike, meet up with friends to listen to music and only check my messages when I arrived home later tonight.

Today, I think it is odd I won't be able to do this task until much later tonight.

That same mentality will be in the backcountry soon. Again, it is not bad..but it different.

taildragger
05-06-2008, 14:21
When roaming around the city, I don't mind being connected, I find it convenient then.

If work calls and I'm not at work, or working as a process engineer, then the call doesn't get answered.

When I hunt, I keep my phone off at all times. I turned it on once while in a tree stand to check the time, I got called right then, I was very livid considering I had told this girl that I was hunting and would call her when I got back into town (nothing like ruining the tranquility and fun of talking to the turkeys)

I think when and if I have chittlins, I'm gonna keep them disconnected, well, disconnected compared to most.

They can get a phone at 16 if they need if for work (like I did), otherwise they'll learn to use a payphone

sofaking
05-06-2008, 14:24
When roaming around the city, I don't mind being connected, I find it convenient then.

If work calls and I'm not at work, or working as a process engineer, then the call doesn't get answered.

When I hunt, I keep my phone off at all times. I turned it on once while in a tree stand to check the time, I got called right then, I was very livid considering I had told this girl that I was hunting and would call her when I got back into town (nothing like ruining the tranquility and fun of talking to the turkeys)

I think when and if I have chittlins, I'm gonna keep them disconnected, well, disconnected compared to most.

They can get a phone at 16 if they need if for work (like I did), otherwise they'll learn to use a payphone
depending on how long you wait to have chizzlers, there probably won't be any pay phones...but they might be able to send a holographic message from their watches or something...crazy like that...:eek:

Mags
05-06-2008, 14:28
otherwise they'll learn to use a payphone



A payphone is becoming a relic I'm afraid.
http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/10/11/business/cellfree.php

Cuffs
05-06-2008, 17:06
I think when and if I have chittlins, I'm gonna keep them disconnected, well, disconnected compared to most.


I think you mean children... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chitterlings

Cuffs
05-06-2008, 17:08
http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/2710871/2/istockphoto_2710871_ironing_incl_jpeg.jpg

Pressed pants are always good!

Umm... couldnt you find a pic of a MAN ironing his own damn clothes? We are not all June Cleavers... ;) Thats what the dry cleaner is for!

taildragger
05-06-2008, 17:17
I think you mean children... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chitterlings

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=chitlins

#3, and I figure that they both look similar at the end of the day

Cuffs
05-06-2008, 18:37
TD, thats good!

MOWGLI
05-06-2008, 18:39
Umm... couldnt you find a pic of a MAN ironing his own damn clothes? We are not all June Cleavers... ;) Thats what the dry cleaner is for!

Yup. Dry Cleaners are MUCH less expensive than a woman. Do the math. :D

Cuffs
05-06-2008, 18:42
I take all non-hiking clothes to the cleaners. Just so much easier.

Skidsteer
05-06-2008, 18:43
My employer shoves all kinds of gadgets at me.

So far they all have off buttons.

Cuffs
05-06-2008, 18:44
Wwjbd? I think its 'rita time!

mudhead
05-06-2008, 18:45
Umm... couldnt you find a pic of a MAN ironing his own damn clothes? We are not all June Cleavers... ;) Thats what the dry cleaner is for!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/2176024.stm

Cuffs
05-06-2008, 18:46
Now thats an illness!

Mags
05-06-2008, 18:49
Umm... couldnt you find a pic of a MAN ironing his own damn clothes? We are not all June Cleavers... ;) Thats what the dry cleaner is for!

How about a man cooking?

http://www.pmags.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=16663&g2_serialNumber=2&g2_GALLERYSID=9b7269e0127675108ae6001d1d0952b4


Oh wait..here is an iron man! (http://web.mit.edu/dryfoo/www/Write/Pix/ironman74.jpg)

And I found this one (http://images.inmagine.com/168nwm/glowimages/gws118/gws118041.jpg) that the ladies may like. (PG rated)

Cuffs
05-06-2008, 18:51
He's cute. Who's that?

smokymtnsteve
05-06-2008, 18:53
having a connection is very important if your a smoker;)

Mags
05-06-2008, 18:55
He's cute. Who's that?

A guy who spends a lot of time in the outdoors and goofs off by talking about the outdoors when he is supposed to be working... :D

Pokey2006
05-06-2008, 19:00
I was blown away last year when I got a job where the bosses expected to be able to reach me on my days off. I never once answered the phone when they called, and I never called them back when they left messages. I never got in trouble for it, but even if I did, I wouldn't have cared. They pay me for 40 hours a week. The rest is MY time.

But it is true that more and more employers are demanding this kind of accessibility. It's bull. They give us two weeks vacation a year (a mere pittance), and demand that we devote ourselves to them fully even on our days off??? Not me. Let someone else be their s***ker.

Bulldawg
05-06-2008, 19:01
I am almost 50 and I got along just fine without this junk for a good 40 of those years. I will not have a cell phone...... it is useless in most of the places I travel. I once had a flat tire at Tray Gap and there were 4 different people there with these things........ it was useless. Drove to the main road on the wheel rim. My spare tire turned out useless also!!!!!

My Nextel worked at Tray Gap last Thursday. I carry a cell phone, but turn it off and only turn it one about twice a day. I call my wife (or try to) at lunch and then again when I make camp (again, if I have service). It helps ease her mind about my well being.

HikerRanky
05-06-2008, 22:11
As someone that has been in the TV Industry for 31 years, and in the Internet side of that for the last 12 years, I can tell you that the connectivity aspects of society has changed... Everyone expects to be able to get you 24/7/365.

However, the company that I work for gives you vacation time and personal holiday time, and you are STRONGLY encouraged to take your vacation and holidays and personal time as it comes up... I get 5 weeks of paid vacation each year, 4 personal days, and 11 holidays. And believe me, I take it, and don't carry the Blackberry with me. My company believe in a 50/50 split of work and life...

Most of my colleagues take vacations outside of the USA.... A colleague just returned from a 3 week trip to India... Me, I'm gonna take a couple of weeks and do a section of the AT with the wife, spend 2 weeks at my folks over the Christmas holidays, and 1 week diving in the Gulf of Mexico.

The 4 personal days I'll use up here and there...

And when I retire, will I keep a Blackberry? I doubt it...

Randy

fiddlehead
05-06-2008, 22:48
Didn't know what aberration meant. Had to look it up. Glad to be in that category!

Didn't realize solo hiking was considered aberration. Glad to be away from the flock!

Carry on sheep!

Pokey2006
05-06-2008, 23:35
As someone that has been in the TV Industry for 31 years, and in the Internet side of that for the last 12 years, I can tell you that the connectivity aspects of society has changed... Everyone expects to be able to get you 24/7/365.

However, the company that I work for gives you vacation time and personal holiday time, and you are STRONGLY encouraged to take your vacation and holidays and personal time as it comes up... I get 5 weeks of paid vacation each year, 4 personal days, and 11 holidays. And believe me, I take it, and don't carry the Blackberry with me. My company believe in a 50/50 split of work and life...

Most of my colleagues take vacations outside of the USA.... A colleague just returned from a 3 week trip to India... Me, I'm gonna take a couple of weeks and do a section of the AT with the wife, spend 2 weeks at my folks over the Christmas holidays, and 1 week diving in the Gulf of Mexico.

The 4 personal days I'll use up here and there...

And when I retire, will I keep a Blackberry? I doubt it...

Randy

More companies in the US should be like this. It's very European. Traveling abroad, you really notice the lack of Americans -- we're not traveling the way Europeans are traveling, I think because we're not given the same amount of time off from work with which to travel. And that's not good for us as individuals, or us as a nation. It's another symptom of this 24/7/365 mentality. It's not healthy.

Frosty
05-06-2008, 23:35
Didn't know what aberration meant. Had to look it up. Glad to be in that category!

Didn't realize solo hiking was considered aberration. Glad to be away from the flock!

Carry on sheep!Yesterday you couldn't spell aberration, and today you are one. Now that's progress!

Frosty
05-06-2008, 23:41
Umm... couldnt you find a pic of a MAN ironing his own damn clothes? Yeah, right. Men don't care about wrinkled clothing. Cripes, we're lucky to get all the pins out of a new shirt before we wear it with all those creases it came with.

A woman at work once asked me why my wife didn't iron my shirts. She said she always ironed her husbands clothes because she felt it reflected badly on HER if he went to work with wrinkled clothing. And she didn't even know the people her husband worked with.

Sometimes I don't understand women.

...

Okay, I never understand women.

Mags
05-06-2008, 23:53
I was blown away last year when I got a job where the bosses expected to be able to reach me on my days off.
....

But it is true that more and more employers are demanding this kind of accessibility. It's bull.


That's what I'm saying: It is indeed being a culture of connectivity.

Funny, I live in an area that is supposed to be outdoors oriented. It is to a certain extent. But the amount of people who go in the backcountry (i.e. more than a day trip) "And off the grid" is increasingly small . Going backpacking with a group is odd. Going solo for say..I dunno, 4-5 mos at a time for say..3 times is really odd. ;)

Mind you, I'm proud to be an aberration as well. :)

Mags
05-07-2008, 00:02
Yeah, right. Men don't care about wrinkled clothing.



Maybe I'll lose my "man membership card", but I actually iron. :eek: Call it my upbringing (or backhands from Mom if I looked sloppy? :) ), but when not in hiker trash mode, I try to look presentable.

Look at these sharp dressers. The man with the nicely creased suit and the jaunty hat is my grandfather just after he and his younger brother (standing on the left, also with creased pants!) were discharged from the army.

http://www.pmags.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=7875&g2_serialNumber=2&g2_GALLERYSID=9ba032b12ff868d3d205169782043577


So yeah..I iron. Alas, I don't like quite as jaunty in a suit. Sorry, no photos of me ironing. :)

Pokey2006
05-07-2008, 00:25
Geez, I can barely iron my own clothes, never mind someone else's. To iron I have to clear off my cluttered coffee table and pull out my counter-top ironing board, so needless to say, I don't do it often. A spray bottle of water works just as well...

Maybe we should start an annual "off the grid day." Make it a Wednesday. Everyone plays hookey, turns off their cell phones, closes down the computers and goes for a walk.

Odd Thomas
05-07-2008, 03:53
As a long-time developer of software products, I'm always astounded that people will put up with the flakiness of cell phone reception yet go ballistic when they have to work around a software defect (aka, bug). If I created a solution as buggy as the cell phone I would've been fired long ago!

Depends where you work. I don't think anyone's ever lost a job at Microsoft over a BSOD. They wouldn't have many employees left anyway. :p

rafe
05-07-2008, 22:29
Not sure exactly what your point is, Mags. But you're young and single. Try seeing it from the POV of a middle-aged weekend warrior...

I carry a cell phone hiking nowadays, because it makes sense... for me. My wife more or less insists on it, and frankly, I enjoy the possibility of talking to her from the trail.

Yes, I enjoy solitude, and yes, I agree that cell phones are over-used, in general. Still, I can tell you that after long miles of solitary hiking and absolutely minimal human contact, it was a pleasure to chat for a bit with my Better Half at the end of the day -- from my (typically solitary) camp site.

sofaking
05-07-2008, 22:33
Not sure exactly what your point is, Mags. But you're young and single. Try seeing it from the POV of a middle-aged weekend warrior...

I carry a cell phone hiking nowadays, because it makes sense... for me. My wife more or less insists on it, and frankly, I enjoy the possibility of talking to her from the trail.

Yes, I enjoy solitude, and yes, I agree that cell phones are over-used, in general. Still, I can tell you that after long miles of solitary hiking and absolutely minimal human contact, it was a pleasure to chat for a bit with my Better Half at the end of the day -- from my (typically solitary) camp site.check your scrotum at the altar...

Skidsteer
05-07-2008, 22:40
Not sure exactly what your point is, Mags. But you're young and single. Try seeing it from the POV of a middle-aged weekend warrior...

I carry a cell phone hiking nowadays, because it makes sense... for me. My wife more or less insists on it, and frankly, I enjoy the possibility of talking to her from the trail.

Yes, I enjoy solitude, and yes, I agree that cell phones are over-used, in general. Still, I can tell you that after long miles of solitary hiking and absolutely minimal human contact, it was a pleasure to chat for a bit with my Better Half at the end of the day -- from my (typically solitary) camp site.

Terrapin, do you think you would hike as often and as much if cell phones weren't an option? IOW, would you limit your time in the woods if you knew you wouldn't be able to talk to your wife from the occasional campsite? Or is the cell phone just a more convenient replacement for payphones?

Cuffs
05-07-2008, 22:55
I read these new posts as I search in another tab for a new smartphone... I love my work, but it does require me to be connected (when Im not hiking.)

ed bell
05-07-2008, 22:56
check your scrotum at the altar...Lemme guess... single and or disgruntled divorced.:D .....or... castrated, married.:-?

Cuffs
05-07-2008, 22:59
Why does it have to be like that? Relations like that make me ill. Why cant 2 people still be the individual they are and quite trying to make each other into someone they are not? Women who act like that upset me greatly... makes it bad for the rest of us...

sofaking
05-07-2008, 23:08
Lemme guess... single and or disgruntled divorced.:D .....or... castrated, married.:-?
amicably seperated, pending the divorce. my boys are indeed intact. maybe too much so.

ed bell
05-07-2008, 23:16
amicably seperated, pending the divorce. my boys are indeed intact. maybe too much so.My remark was intended as humor, I was riffing off your comment...I wish you the best.:sun

sofaking
05-07-2008, 23:53
My remark was intended as humor, I was riffing off your comment...I wish you the best.:sun
i was kind of wondering about that, but i figured i shouldn't dish it if i wasn't willing to take it...it's all good, she didn't like backpacking anyway. like i said , it was an amicable agreement between two adults. HA HA HA !:jump

Mags
05-08-2008, 00:00
I carry a cell phone hiking nowadays, because it makes sense... for me.



It is a choice for YOU. But, culturally, it is becoming an expectation that we should all be connected.

It is one thing when it is choice..it is another thing when societal pressure, job, etc. expects it.

Nothing to do with being young...if anything it is people *YOUNGER* than me who expect to be connected, nay ,demand.to be connected 24/7.

And that culture will be in the backcountry.

Twenty years from now I expect people who chose to not be connected 24/7 will be looked at as slightly odd at best.

sofaking
05-08-2008, 00:04
Twenty years from now I expect people who chose to not be connected 24/7 will be looked at as slightly odd at best.
it won't take that long. as you yourself pointed out, it's the younger generation that grew up with this crap and expects it to be the norm.

10 yrs max...we'll either 'bear the mark' or not.

Bob S
05-08-2008, 00:05
More companies in the US should be like this. It's very European. Traveling abroad, you really notice the lack of Americans -- we're not traveling the way Europeans are traveling, I think because we're not given the same amount of time off from work with which to travel. And that's not good for us as individuals, or us as a nation. It's another symptom of this 24/7/365 mentality. It's not healthy.



Not to turn this debate political. But I think the government structure in Europe has a lot to do with this. Socialistic governments tend to make (interfere with) companies give employees more time at the sacrifice of product or service production. Here in the USA (it’s slowly going socialist) the government tends to let companies have more freedom to work out employee benefits.


Not saying this is good or bad either way it’s done.

Personally I don’t want the government telling companies how many days an employee has to have off. But at the same time I don’t want to work for a company that thinks employees are to be worked lots of hours and with few days off. I did that for a while and I hated my job. I worked 12-hours a day on the clock with 2-hrs travel time every day. All I did was work eat and sleep, It sucked big time.

Now I’m self employed and really enjoy the long weekends, and generally don’t work more then 6-hrs a day.

taildragger
05-08-2008, 00:08
Not to turn this debate political. But I think the government structure in Europe has a lot to do with this. Socialistic governments tend to make (interfere with) companies give employees more time at the sacrifice of product or service production. Here in the USA (it’s slowly going socialist) the government tends to let companies have more freedom to work out employee benefits.



Wouldn't agree there in all respects. I know of some companies that used to treat their employees far better 20 yrs ago than they do today. Today is about making money, sneaking in that extra 20 hours a week since your on the grid.

This whole connectivity issue leaches into the whole working overtime for no pay as well (why I hate being salaried)

ed bell
05-08-2008, 00:10
It is a choice for YOU. But, culturally, it is becoming an expectation that we should all be connected.

It is one thing when it is choice..it is another thing when societal pressure, job, etc. expects it.

Nothing to do with being young...if anything it is people *YOUNGER* than me who expect to be connected, nay ,demand.to be connected 24/7.

And that culture will be in the backcountry.

Twenty years from now I expect people who chose to not be connected 24/7 will be looked at as slightly odd at best.Unfortunately, the oldest excuses: "I wasn't near a phone" "I didn't hear the phone ring" "I just now listened to your message" are gone. The newer ones: "I must have been out of range" and "My battery died and I lost my charger" are losing traction quickly. I like the newest option: "I chose to ignore you because I said I'd be unavailable". At least the dwindling options seem to be forcing people to tell the truth.:D

sofaking
05-08-2008, 00:16
i'm actually contemplating buying one of those 'crack phones'- pay by the minute deals- not to use on a daily basis, but to keep in my pack in case i get in a jam...i'd only give my # to my emergency contact people. which reminds me, i need to get some emergency contact people...

Alligator
05-08-2008, 00:17
Cell phones are a convenience for pay phones for me. Unfortunately, that comes from someone old enough to have recognized the restriction of a pay phone. As Mags notes, there is a changing culture of connectivity. Hikers of previous years are accustomed to a certain level of connectivity. Presented with newer devices, they will either maintain their previous level of connectivity or shorten it. Few people would suddenly extend the connection time due to new technology.

Personally, I call every two days. I bring my cell because I had to get one for traveling/working. Even every two days is more regular now as finding a pay phone was hit or miss. I wouldn't call on the next day if I had called the previous. So calling would be 2-3 days on longer trips. I keep my phone off otherwise unless it's a family member's birthday.

I personally didn't witness much difference until the last year on the trail, where I've run into folks using phones at shelters. That's not a major issue but a little etiquette is in order. Just an "excuse me while I make or take a call" would be a reasonable compromise. Stepping away from the shelter would show class.

Bob S
05-08-2008, 00:21
Wouldn't agree there in all respects. I know of some companies that used to treat their employees far better 20 yrs ago than they do today. Today is about making money, sneaking in that extra 20 hours a week since your on the grid.

This whole connectivity issue leaches into the whole working overtime for no pay as well (why I hate being salaried)
I had a job years ago that was a salary based job, it sucked, and they abused the employees time like crazy. NEVER AGAIN will I take a salary job!

sofaking
05-08-2008, 00:23
I had a job years ago that was a salary based job, it sucked, and they abused the employees time like crazy. NEVER AGAIN will I take a salary job!
always remember to always say never say never...again !

Alligator
05-08-2008, 00:26
Unfortunately, the oldest excuses: "I wasn't near a phone" "I didn't hear the phone ring" "I just now listened to your message" are gone. The newer ones: "I must have been out of range" and "My battery died and I lost my charger" are losing traction quickly. I like the newest option: "I chose to ignore you because I said I'd be unavailable". At least the dwindling options seem to be forcing people to tell the truth.:DI don't answer the phone unless I want to, caller ID is key:D. Even if it's my mom:cool:. I don't feel guilty about it either:banana.

Bob S
05-08-2008, 00:39
Never feel guilty, it’s my phone, I pay the bill, I decide who, when and if I talk to someone. My phone is for my use and pleasure, not others.

I tell people every once in a while when they give me a hard time for not answering when they want me. “When you pay my phone bill, you can have some say as to how I use it, but till then I decide”

Alligator
05-08-2008, 01:05
That's a good way to look at it.

4eyedbuzzard
05-08-2008, 01:51
Cell phones and connectivity may also give some the freedom to hike (or do other activities). Many of us can't just put business, family, or other obligations on hold. A brief daily call to take care of things might mean the difference between getting out vs. being owned by one's business or profession. I see cell phones as freeing myself and others from being in one physical place just to get and give information. With a cell and a signal I can do that from anywhere.

Old Hillwalker
05-08-2008, 07:13
Yeah, right. Men don't care about wrinkled clothing. Cripes, we're lucky to get all the pins out of a new shirt before we wear it with all those creases it came with.

A woman at work once asked me why my wife didn't iron my shirts. She said she always ironed her husbands clothes because she felt it reflected badly on HER if he went to work with wrinkled clothing. And she didn't even know the people her husband worked with.

Sometimes I don't understand women.

...

Okay, I never understand women.

Years ago, when I was married I asked my wife "Why are you ironing your bra? You don't have anything to put in it." She responded, "I iron your skivvies don't I?":D

Marta
05-08-2008, 07:32
I think cell phones can be used in two ways:

1) As a convenient communcation device.

2) As an instrument of control. Parents do this to kids; spouses do it to each other; employers do it to employees. "You may be out of my sight, but I can use this device to control you from afar."

#1 is fine with me. #2 is unacceptable to me.

I usually carry a cell phone while hiking because I'm lazy.

taildragger
05-08-2008, 08:27
I usually carry a cell phone while hiking because I'm lazy.


That cell phone has an associated weight, and since you're carrying more weight, I think that makes you less lazy.

DavidNH
05-08-2008, 09:26
well every one else has chimed in so I might as well also.

It does seem that in our society everyone has a cell phone and uses them all the time. And by our society I mean all the modern world, US Europe etc.

I do not have a cell phone to this day nor do I want one. I am the only person I know that doesn't have one. I find it annoying in the extreme having to listen to phone conversations in the supermarket, at lodges, even on the trail sometimes. Can't folks dissconnect even for a little bit? I even succeeded in thru hiking the entire AT without the use of a cell phone. I don't even mind hiking an extra half mile off trail to get to a pay phone if I need to.

I really hope people maintain the courtesy of not using cell phones in and around shelters or on the trail around people. But there is certainly no guaretee that will happen.


Doesn't any one even care about the visual blight that cell phone towers cause? And that due to the telecommunications act that people can't stop the from being built in their town or in some cases on their land or places they cherish?

DavidNH (snickers)

DavidNH
05-08-2008, 09:36
Not to turn this debate political. But I think the government structure in Europe has a lot to do with this. Socialistic governments tend to make (interfere with) companies give employees more time at the sacrifice of product or service production. Here in the USA (it’s slowly going socialist) the government tends to let companies have more freedom to work out employee benefits.


Not saying this is good or bad either way it’s done.

Personally I don’t want the government telling companies how many days an employee has to have off. But at the same time I don’t want to work for a company that thinks employees are to be worked lots of hours and with few days off. I did that for a while and I hated my job. I worked 12-hours a day on the clock with 2-hrs travel time every day. All I did was work eat and sleep, It sucked big time.

Now I’m self employed and really enjoy the long weekends, and generally don’t work more then 6-hrs a day.

Bob S. You don't want government telling companies how many days off they should give to their employees? you really think they would give time off if they did not have to? In America today, Companies are free to decide on their own leave policy. As a direct result we Americans get less time off than nearly any other country on earth. The Europeans get a month off or more because they are mandated to do so not because they want to. So many people in America today are overworked and over stressed even though they can afford all sorts of material things (we are still the wealthiest nation in the world).

tlbj6142
05-08-2008, 09:47
I think because we're not given the same amount of time off from work with which to travel. And that's not good for us as individuals, or us as a nation. It's another symptom of this 24/7/365 mentality. It's not healthy.If we had the time, most won't take it. We get 4 weeks a year with a max of 6 weeks total. Out of the 70 people here, I bet 60 are permanently stuck at the 6 week max. They never take vacation. Maybe 1 week every other year. I don't get it.

It was so bad, one of our old CEOs removed our 4th week, because having so much vacation "on the books" looked bad to investors. We eventually earned it back. And I heard recently that we will get a 5th week on our 10th year! I suspect it will go unused by most.

FWIW, you don't see Americans traveling outside the US because the value of a dollar sucks! Even Canada is expensive. When I was a kid we use to call Canadian vacations "free".:D

superman
05-08-2008, 10:20
How many of you remember what happened on Wingfoot's site if someone mentioned taking a cell phone. The fast version was that "if you need a cell phone hiking you shouldn't be hiking." Now it is not only ok to bring your cell phone to most of the people in the shelters but the shelters have turned into phone booths. Has anyone not heard this opening line of the cell phone calls "guess where I am?" Seems to me that it's hard to meet and talk to new and interesting people if they have a cell phone glued to their ear. I have no cell phone reception where I live. To some people that's like saying they have to pipe in sun light. I have friends and family that I don't completely dislike and I could talk to them, if I needed to, but I assume they have things to do other than waste their day chatting about the crap that was left in a shelter. :-?

Mags
05-08-2008, 10:40
10 yrs max...we'll either 'bear the mark' or not.


You are probably right. I was being overly conservative in my guesstimate.

And as Trail Dragger said "sneaking in that extra 20 hours a week since your on the grid."

Again, the line between work time and leisure time is getting blurred, esp. for so called "professional" jobs. [1]

A communication device is a tool. Many people use it responsibly if you will. Emergency use, a quick check in, etc. As I said before, I am not against communication devices in the backcountry per se.

But I see the trend of people bringing that same desire for 24/7 connection into all parts of life. And that expected 24/7 connection will be expected more and more of everyone. The list of things to bring on many website include a map, compass..and more of and more: a cell phone.


Just a sea change in how we perceive to being in contact and not. The line is quickly blurring. Try going off into the backcountry 10 yrs from now and see the reaction if you don't bring a communication device of some sort.



[1] I've always hated that term. Does it imply that unless you work in an office environment you are not professional? :rolleyes:

Cuffs
05-08-2008, 12:45
Excellent post Marta!!!

mudhead
05-08-2008, 13:00
How many of you remember what happened on Wingfoot's site if someone mentioned taking a cell phone. The fast version was that "if you need a cell phone hiking you shouldn't be hiking." Now it is not only ok to bring your cell phone to most of the people in the shelters but the shelters have turned into phone booths. Has anyone not heard this opening line of the cell phone calls "guess where I am?" Seems to me that it's hard to meet and talk to new and interesting people if they have a cell phone glued to their ear. I have no cell phone reception where I live. To some people that's like saying they have to pipe in sun light. I have friends and family that I don't completely dislike and I could talk to them, if I needed to, but I assume they have things to do other than waste their day chatting about the crap that was left in a shelter. :-?

This is amusing. I have no signal also. I also know people I don't completely dislike.

Crack me up!

Bob S
05-08-2008, 13:58
Bob S. You don't want government telling companies how many days off they should give to their employees? you really think they would give time off if they did not have to? In America today, Companies are free to decide on their own leave policy. As a direct result we Americans get less time off than nearly any other country on earth. The Europeans get a month off or more because they are mandated to do so not because they want to. So many people in America today are overworked and over stressed even though they can afford all sorts of material things (we are still the wealthiest nation in the world).

I think free market forces should decide this issue, not the government.

I’m self employed and a big part of that is that I get to decide when to work and when to go out and play & enjoy life. I’m sure I could be making more money at a big company, but I would loose a lot of freedom. This is my choice and the government should keep out of it.

Others can make the same choice, but they let that big paycheck seduce them, and all the sudden they have a big mortgage, 2 new car payments and credit card bills and a dozen other bills for things they don’t really need and are stuck. This is a self inflicted wound. No one made these people buy new cars every few years, or have to have 100 channels of TV to watch every night. All the sudden they are going after every extra hour of work they can get to pay for all this stuff. Who’s fault is this?

superman
05-08-2008, 15:25
This is amusing. I have no signal also. I also know people I don't completely dislike.

Crack me up!

I lied about having friends and family that I don't completely dislike. I don't like any of them, they are funny looking, they ruin everything....and they all use cell phones.:banana

RadioFreq
05-08-2008, 15:51
I am a firm believer that today's society has been brainwashed into thinking
it is both cool and necessary to be in constant communication via various
technical devices in much the same way that the society of my youth was
brainwashed into thinking it was both cool and necessary...to smoke.

And we all know how that turned out. :eek::D

(That being said, yes, I have an employer supplied cellphone, dammit! :mad:)

Bob S
05-08-2008, 17:31
I am a firm believer that today's society has been brainwashed into thinking
it is both cool and necessary to be in constant communication via various
technical devices in much the same way that the society of my youth was
brainwashed into thinking it was both cool and necessary...to smoke.

And we all know how that turned out. :eek::D

(That being said, yes, I have an employer supplied cellphone, dammit! :mad:)
Only answer it during work hours, and buy yourself a personal cell phone and never give its number out to anyone at work.


Be brave and take back your life…

Pokey2006
05-08-2008, 17:34
If we had the time, most won't take it. We get 4 weeks a year with a max of 6 weeks total. Out of the 70 people here, I bet 60 are permanently stuck at the 6 week max. They never take vacation. Maybe 1 week every other year. I don't get it.

It was so bad, one of our old CEOs removed our 4th week, because having so much vacation "on the books" looked bad to investors. We eventually earned it back. And I heard recently that we will get a 5th week on our 10th year! I suspect it will go unused by most.

FWIW, you don't see Americans traveling outside the US because the value of a dollar sucks! Even Canada is expensive. When I was a kid we use to call Canadian vacations "free".:D

You'd be surprised how far the US dollar can go, even today. Depends on the country you visit. So I don't think that's all of it.

I think part of it, too, is that there's so much to see within our own country. But part of it is also our inability to pull ourselves away from our jobs. It's our fault (for not taking the time when it's available), and our employers' fault (for expecting too much out of us).

rickb
05-08-2008, 18:46
Good thread. Some interesting thoughts.

The late Guy Waterman was considering the impact of these kinds of things when he wrote Wilderness Ethics, and Backwoods Ethics, I think. Even though that was before the age of cell phones he knew what was coming and wrote about the need to preserve "The Spirit of the Wilderness". In one chapter he wrote about how a 2-way radio interfered with that spirit on a bushwhack in the whites.

In any event, his ideas and ethic never got much traction. Seems like everyone is a pragmatist these days. I think we are poorer for it, but at least we know where we are!

Bob S
05-08-2008, 20:32
I think part of the reason more American don’t travel abroad may be that we don’t seem to be well liked in the world (no one likes the big guy on the block and the cop) and also for security concerns with all the terrorism.

taildragger
05-08-2008, 20:35
I think part of the reason more American don’t travel abroad may be that we don’t seem to be well liked in the world (no one likes the big guy on the block and the cop) and also for security concerns with all the terrorism.


I got along with everyone I've met, from zapatistas to the socialists hanging out in Italy. Then again, I'm pretty laid back and most people didn't think that I was american

Pokey2006
05-08-2008, 20:40
Actually, where I went (India and Nepal), people there seemed to LOVE that I was American. "Strong country," one man said. I told him that was the reason why I didn't have a porter, because strong countries produce strong women! Seriously, the folks there were all about the US. The Tibetan refugees especially so. It helped that I was there when the Dalai Lama got his Congressional Medal. They loved that.

My sister just went to Italy, and they advised her to tell people that she's Canadian.

But still, I don't think the anti-American sentiment is what's doing it. I think the thought of being away from home (and work, cell phones, etc.) for six weeks is more daunting for Americans. We on WB don't think six weeks is a big deal (compared with six months for a thru), but the general public seems to be blown away by the idea of going on a 6-week vaca.

rafe
05-08-2008, 20:49
Terrapin, do you think you would hike as often and as much if cell phones weren't an option? IOW, would you limit your time in the woods if you knew you wouldn't be able to talk to your wife from the occasional campsite? Or is the cell phone just a more convenient replacement for payphones?

I started hiking long before cell phones were an option. I probably had half or 2/3 of the AT completed before buying my first cell phone. The other factor that's changed (as of about 18 years ago) is the state of being happily married.

For weekend hikes on popular trails, a phone seems less important. But my preference lately has been for less-traveled routes. Last summer's AT section was rather a lonely affair -- in addition to hiking alone, I spent most nights alone. The cell phone really was a godsend. (Of course, there were several campsites where the phone wasn't able to connect...)

Anyway... the phone served several purposes, and I really see no good reason not to take it hiking. Would I hike less without it? I just don't know...

In August I'll be spending a week or ten days doing "Section P" of the PCT. I will have the phone, but I'm also half expecting that it will be useless (no signal) over most of the route. "Lack of phone" isn't stopping me.

rafe
05-08-2008, 21:07
It is a choice for YOU. But, culturally, it is becoming an expectation that we should all be connected.

It is one thing when it is choice..it is another thing when societal pressure, job, etc. expects it.

Nothing to do with being young...if anything it is people *YOUNGER* than me who expect to be connected, nay ,demand.to be connected 24/7.

And that culture will be in the backcountry.

Twenty years from now I expect people who chose to not be connected 24/7 will be looked at as slightly odd at best.

Look at the positive side: connectivity allows people to wander off into the woods without totally abandoning the home front.

Example: my inlaws are ancient. They could kick any day. If I were on an extended hike and that happened, for my wife's benefit, I'd rather be by her side sooner rather than later. 24, 48,or 72 hours could make a big difference there.

Example two (which I've made before) -- frequent but brief contact puts loved ones back home "at ease" and allows them to be more involved with the hike. At a certain point last summer, it became clear to me that my wife was tracking my route closely with the maps I'd left at home. "Oh, you must have walked past Yellow Springs today." Put it that way, she was as much of a "hiking partner" as I've ever had.

Pokey2006
05-08-2008, 22:25
Being able to connect at some point every day is great. Having to be connected every single second of every single day is not.

Turning on your cell phone when you need to make a call is great. Having, or wanting, to keep it on constantly so your boss call get in touch is not.

Like others said, it's a tool, but a tool to be used wisely, and with respect for others around us. And with respect for ourselves.

Pokey2006
05-08-2008, 22:50
http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/index.php?cl=7736690 (http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/index.php?cl=7736690)


People on their honeymoon obsessing about work. So sad. What's to become of us?

River Runner
05-09-2008, 00:43
[1] I've always hated that term. Does it imply that unless you work in an office environment you are not professional? :rolleyes:

That's right up there with 'working class'. I was on a backpacking trip once when a social psychiatrist kept talking about the 'working class'. I thought it was hilariously ironic, since she obviously 'worked'.

On topic,

I once read that in the future, the true luxury will be the privilege of not having to have a cell phone or pager.

fiddlehead
05-09-2008, 01:59
Depends how much you like your work i guess. I don't mind my phone working cause it could be bringing in business. If i didn't like my business, i would start another one or change what i do.
If you don't like your job, then either quit or go on hating it.
I don't really understand people taking their cell phones in the woods if they don't like them.

Mags
05-09-2008, 10:21
That's right up there with 'working class'. I was on a backpacking trip once when a social psychiatrist kept talking about the 'working class'. I thought it was hilariously ironic, since she obviously 'worked'.




I hate that term, too, for similar reasons. Usually it is people who with lots of letters behind their name who use this term. :D

In Italy, customs lost some of my clothes. I had to buy clothes in Italy. The locals kept on coming up to me and asking directions! With my accent, they asked if I was Spanish. (Guess my American accent was not as bad as I thought...or the Italians did not know an American accent too well. ;) )


Getting back to the topic, I think Pokey summed it up well:

Like others said, it's a tool, but a tool to be used wisely, and with respect for others around us. And with respect for ourselves.


I am not debating if connectivity is good or bad. That is a rube's game and an argument that can't be won.

My point, that is seeming to be missed by some people, is that the culture is changing and that connectivity is expected now. It is no longer a luxury..but an expected right. And that culture just assumes that everyone else will and should be connected, too.

rickb
05-09-2008, 10:57
This month's Outside Magazine had an full-page ad for a similar product featuring the guy who cut off his arm with a multi-tool when he got trapped by a boulder in the backcountry.

The message was fairly simple. A smart person protects himself by remaoning in contact, and that bad stuff will follow if you don't.

BTW, I just read something about an implanted chip that will call 911 if it detects you are having a MI or stroke. Not sure that would be much help in the woods, but it does say where technology is going.

bfitz
05-09-2008, 12:07
I can't wait for my communications/GPS implant. With a tiny projector in my eye to project the data onto my retina like a holograph that only I can see. I'll be watching Buffy the vampire slayer reruns in my tent. And no one will know. Everyone will have that "thousand yard stare" on the subway. Or rather, in line for the teleportation booth.

bfitz
05-09-2008, 12:10
So far all of these devices have on/off controls, so...........

Mags
05-09-2008, 12:25
So far all of these devices have on/off controls, so...........


So...let's see when you tell your boss "Sorry, I won't turn the device on". :sun

But again, it the culture that is mandating (perceived) 24/7 connection.


I am not talking about turning the thing off and/or not carrying one.

Look at the ad Rick B found: It is perceived that you are doing something foolhardy for the simple act of walking solo.

I am just wondering that with this cultural shift that how the back country is used, enjoyed and administered will also change.

Much madness is divinest sense
To a discerning eye;
Much sense the starkest madness.
’T is the majority
In this, as all, prevails.
Assent, and you are sane;
Demur,—you ’re straightway dangerous,
And handled with a chain.

MOWGLI
05-09-2008, 12:32
So...let's see when you tell your boss "Sorry, I won't turn the device on". :sun



I was told a pager was a "condition of employment" after successfully refusing one for a couple of years when I was with Verizon. I explained to my boss, that a pager was incompatible with my hobby (hiking), and that the pager would be on my dresser at home while I was hiking, and that I'd check it as soon as I was out of the woods. He was OK with that. I always held up my end of the bargain.

Mags
05-09-2008, 12:41
I He was OK with that. I always held up my end of the bargain.


How many years ago was that?

I think that option will be less likely I'm afraid for many people in the coming years. :(

MOWGLI
05-09-2008, 12:49
How many years ago was that?

I think that option will be less likely I'm afraid for many people in the coming years. :(

Maybe 8 years ago. I did steadfastly refuse to get a cell phone. I have since fallen down that slippery slope. :(

taildragger
05-09-2008, 14:40
How many years ago was that?

I think that option will be less likely I'm afraid for many people in the coming years. :(

I've always told my bosses that I ride, hike, hunt and fish a lot, and most of the areas where I do so are in river bottoms, cannot get a single there since they did away with the analog towers, that and I wouldn't be willing to drive 2 hours to do some work that can wait.

Foyt20
05-09-2008, 23:37
the funny thing is tha ti didnt mention is that i carry a broadband card, so that i can get internet connection where ever i can get cell signal.

bfitz
05-09-2008, 23:53
I'm my own boss. But I have to keep it turned off while hiking to preserve battery charge. I can check my messages whenever, but at least I have the option. I'm my own boss so not worried about that but who knows, maybe my mom needs me. Gotta answer that phone call, right?:p The more connected the better I say. You just gotta know how to say no.

tlbj6142
05-10-2008, 21:21
I just realized that opposite of this subject affects me. Due abundance of information on-line and from other sources, I don't typically hike places I can't get overly detailed information about the area. IOW, I don't feel comfortable hiking somewhere without information overload. :confused:

For example, I'm considering hiking the Warrior Trail (http://www.westgreenepa.net/Community/WarriorTrail/) in SW PA. Or the a portion of the NCT in NW PA. Well I can obtain quite a bit of information online and from the NCT about the NCT in PA, the same cannot be said about the WT. The guide for the WT doesn't provide enough details (map and a bit of a guide). Which means, there is a 70/30 chance that I'll hike the NCT rather than the WT. Even though the WT _may_ be a better hike.

ki0eh
05-12-2008, 16:24
A lot of trail organizations make what little money they have by selling maps and guides so are loath to put too much info on the Web. I'm not sure many of these groups are adapting well to the changing ways geospatial information is or will shortly be conveyed. So I wonder what the best way will be for these groups to adapt, both to serve increasingly "connected" hikers, and to ensure appropriate revenue.

tlbj6142
05-12-2008, 17:05
A lot of trail organizations make what little money they have by selling maps and guides so are loath to put too much info on the Web.I understand that. Even so, the quality and quantity of the information I can obtain both for free and from buying greatly affects whether or not I hike somewhere. I'm not one of types that wants everything for free. But if I don't get enough of a "teaser" from what little I gain for free, I'm probably not going to buy what I need.

In the particular case I mentioned above (PA NCT vs Warrior Trail), the quality of the purchase materials for the PA NCT is much better than that of the WT. As are the details they provide. Both trails are probably excellent, but since I don't have the geeky details on the WT as I do for the PA NCT, I'll probably end up on the NCT.

I really blame this on the AT thru-hiker community. The amount of readily available information (both free and otherwise) along the AT is just insane. It makes planning even the simplest of hikes elsewhere almost seem like an Arctic expedition. Even though they may, in reality, be "simpler" hikes.

ki0eh
05-12-2008, 17:55
Different trail groups certainly differ in their individual capacities for assembling and disseminating information. NCTA has a paid staff including a GIS department for supporting their chapters, with access to a wide-ranging membership base and to Federal funds - although all of that pales in comparison to the AT entities of course, and the AT excites enough interest to have profit seeking entities supplement information provided by the nonprofit and government partners. WTA is a local organization operating alone in one of PA's smallest counties. Maybe better technology will eventually level the playing field between them. I'm just not sure either group or others can make money at participating in that information exchange, the way footpath organizations have for the past few decades.