View Full Version : Bears and Shelters
naturejunkie
05-08-2008, 08:47
I have read about several incidents this year (on Trailjournals.com) with bears stealing food bags and even coming into shelters along the N.C. section of the AT (sorry I don't recall the specific location). As everyone knows, when bears start a pattern of this type behavior it is bad for hikers and very bad for the bear. Are there any plans to trap this bear or bears and attempt a relocation?
SmokyMtn Hiker
05-08-2008, 08:57
The incidents are happening at the two shelters north of Max Patch, Roaring Fork and I think Walnut Mtn. I haven't heard if any action is being taken other than stressing hikers to hang their food properly.
dessertrat
05-08-2008, 09:39
At this point, they should be more vigilant about actively scaring these bears off if they come around. They are already learning hiker=food. They need to "unlearn it", or bad news awaits. They need literal "bells and whistles" or firecrackers, or whatnot, to drive the bears away from the shelters and teach them hiker=pain in the ass.
wilconow
05-08-2008, 09:45
attempt a relocation? of the shelter? walnut mtn has been there since the 30s I believe.
sparky2000
05-08-2008, 09:49
Moving a Mtn. is no pain for our Govt. They"ve relocated most of our Mtns. last year to allow smoother traffic to and from the Penn State Football (profit) games.
sofaking
05-08-2008, 09:51
just wait for a hiker carrying a concealed weapon to take matters into their own hands...the general consensus among the gun carrying population seems to be that law enforcement(of any kind) can't be relied upon to 'protect the population from the big scary world' and that it's their 'right' to preempt the law and to dispense 'cowboy justice' as they see fit. there won't be too many problem animals left in gsmnp...at least not 4 legged ones.
take-a-knee
05-08-2008, 10:03
just wait for a hiker carrying a concealed weapon to take matters into their own hands...the general consensus among the gun carrying population seems to be that law enforcement(of any kind) can't be relied upon to 'protect the population from the big scary world' and that it's their 'right' to preempt the law and to dispense 'cowboy justice' as they see fit. there won't be too many problem animals left in gsmnp...at least not 4 legged ones.
What a load of crap.
sofaking
05-08-2008, 10:05
What a load of crap.
why don't you go back and re-read the previous few days posts?
bloodmountainman
05-08-2008, 10:08
What a load of crap.
Maybe, two loads!
Gray Blazer
05-08-2008, 10:50
just wait for a hiker carrying a concealed weapon to take matters into their own hands...the general consensus among the gun carrying population seems to be that law enforcement(of any kind) can't be relied upon to 'protect the population from the big scary world' and that it's their 'right' to preempt the law and to dispense 'cowboy justice' as they see fit. there won't be too many problem animals left in gsmnp...at least not 4 legged ones.
So much of what you say is true up to the "scary world" part. Gun owners do have rights. Responsible ones won't be preempting the law (I assume you realize that criminals and people who want to hurt you are not preempting the law, but ignoring it totally) and they won't be dispensing cowboy justice as they see fit, but, actually protecting their families rights as well as their own and other American citizens rights as well.
I know a guy who is a good Christian (just an example, could be any religion) and a nice person. He is so anti-violent that if a criminal broke into his house and began torturing and/or murdering his family, he would not fight back and would ask the guy to stop, but, not intervene with any violence. I, on the other hand, would fight to protect my family and myself.
And you may hate me for this, but, I have actually yelled and cursed at bears :eek: who had endangered my family. I actually have even hit a bear as hard as I could who was breaking into our tent while we were sleeping.:eek::eek:
Call PITA!!:banana:p:banana:p
sofaking
05-08-2008, 10:56
why would i care about you yelling at and hitting bears? at least you didn't need to 'bust a cap in his a$$'...and did you mean p.e.t.a.?, people eating tasty animals?
Two Speed
05-08-2008, 11:27
So much of what you say is true . . .
Call PITA!!:banana:p:banana:pNice rant, but it's PETA, whereas I'm being a PITA.
Gray Blazer
05-08-2008, 11:35
Nice rant, but it's PETA, whereas I'm being a PITA.
Whoops! Dang!!:o
taildragger
05-08-2008, 11:41
just wait for a hiker carrying a concealed weapon to take matters into their own hands...the general consensus among the gun carrying population seems to be that law enforcement(of any kind) can't be relied upon to 'protect the population from the big scary world' and that it's their 'right' to preempt the law and to dispense 'cowboy justice' as they see fit. there won't be too many problem animals left in gsmnp...at least not 4 legged ones.
Wow, how'd you get a badger that far up your poop?
Boy, you really don't understand this whole carrying thing at all do ya? Almost no one who legally carries will use the weapon, its a last ditch thing.
I only know of 2 people that I have known that have openly brandished a firearm at someone.
1) A man broke into an older man's house (down the street from where I used to live), shot the old man in the leg when he came out of his room asking who was there, the old man shot and wounded the intruder, when the intruder proceeded to keep shooting and not leave, his was killed.
2) Friend of mine was driving around his ranch when he caught an ol' boy road hunting, told him to leave, and they drove off, next time he spotted them that day, they had a loaded gun in the passenger seat and where aiming at a buck with another rifle in the drivers seat.
So, he drove up with his rifle out the window, parked next to them, and told them to wait, the game warden was on his way to arrest them.
sofaking
05-08-2008, 11:42
Wow, how'd you get a badger that far up your poop?
Boy, you really don't understand this whole carrying thing at all do ya? Almost no one who legally carries will use the weapon, its a last ditch thing.
I only know of 2 people that I have known that have openly brandished a firearm at someone.
1) A man broke into an older man's house (down the street from where I used to live), shot the old man in the leg when he came out of his room asking who was there, the old man shot and wounded the intruder, when the intruder proceeded to keep shooting and not leave, his was killed.
2) Friend of mine was driving around his ranch when he caught an ol' boy road hunting, told him to leave, and they drove off, next time he spotted them that day, they had a loaded gun in the passenger seat and where aiming at a buck with another rifle in the drivers seat.
So, he drove up with his rifle out the window, parked next to them, and told them to wait, the game warden was on his way to arrest them.
and none of that has anything to do with carrying concealed on the trail...
Lone Wolf
05-08-2008, 11:42
sounds like it's dumb to stay in shelters
taildragger
05-08-2008, 11:49
and none of that has anything to do with carrying concealed on the trail...
And your point is....
You jumped the gun and said that people LIKE ME go and dispense cowboy justice and that hikers carrying concealed weapons on the trail are going to shoot all the bears and other 4 legged critters (paraphrased).
My point is, that someone who is carrying usually doesn't use the weapon unless its a last resort. A bear stealing someones food isn't going to get shot (well, highly unlikely, and I'll play the odds here).
sofaking
05-08-2008, 11:57
And your point is....
You jumped the gun and said that people LIKE ME go and dispense cowboy justice and that hikers carrying concealed weapons on the trail are going to shoot all the bears and other 4 legged critters (paraphrased).
My point is, that someone who is carrying usually doesn't use the weapon unless its a last resort. A bear stealing someones food isn't going to get shot (well, highly unlikely, and I'll play the odds here).
explain to me how you legally carry on the trail.
Tipi Walter
05-08-2008, 12:01
just wait for a hiker carrying a concealed weapon to take matters into their own hands...the general consensus among the gun carrying population seems to be that law enforcement(of any kind) can't be relied upon to 'protect the population from the big scary world' and that it's their 'right' to preempt the law and to dispense 'cowboy justice' as they see fit. there won't be too many problem animals left in gsmnp...at least not 4 legged ones.
The only problem animals in the Smokies are the two-legged ones.
taildragger
05-08-2008, 12:01
explain to me how you legally carry on the trail.
The way that I understand it is that it is legal to carry firearms in certain sections of the trail.
From www.appalachiantrail.org
"ATC strongly discourages hikers from carrying firearms. In areas of the Trail corridor where hunting is legal, hikers may see hunters carrying firearms. On National Park Service lands outside national recreation areas, possession of firearms by private citizens is illegal. The prohibition applies on many other public lands as well. Where firearms are allowed, state laws on licenses, registration, and related matters govern."
Lone Wolf
05-08-2008, 12:02
explain to me how you legally carry on the trail.
get a CCW permit
sofaking
05-08-2008, 12:06
show me where a state issued ccw gives you the right to carry on park service controlled lands. or that you can carry wherever you want, just because you have a permit. in va, for example, you can't enter any establishment that serves alcohol if your carrying...feel free to post links with any information that you have to prove me wrong, i'd like to get this as clear as possible...
taildragger
05-08-2008, 12:07
show me where a state issued ccw gives you the right to carry on park service controlled lands. or that you can carry wherever you want, just because you have a permit. in va, for example, you can't enter any establishment that serves alcohol if your carrying...feel free to post links with any information that you have to prove me wrong, i'd like to get this as clear as possible...
I just sent you a link, maybe you should read it:eek:
sofaking
05-08-2008, 12:10
The way that I understand it is that it is legal to carry firearms in certain sections of the trail.
From www.appalachiantrail.org (http://www.appalachiantrail.org)
"ATC strongly discourages hikers from carrying firearms. In areas of the Trail corridor where hunting is legal, hikers may see hunters carrying firearms. On National Park Service lands outside national recreation areas, possession of firearms by private citizens is illegal. The prohibition applies on many other public lands as well. Where firearms are allowed, state laws on licenses, registration, and related matters govern."
you're allowed to carry guns to hunt THROUGH parts of the trail here in md, but they can't be loaded and it's only to access the hunting lands around the trail. none of which still has anything to do with hikers packing heat.
ofthearth
05-08-2008, 12:13
Is there a moderator in the house????????????????????????????????
taildragger
05-08-2008, 12:14
http://www.aldha.org/companyn/intro07.pdf
Still states that there are parts that its legal to carry a firearm
taildragger
05-08-2008, 12:15
Alright, I'm done, sorry for the thread drift.
So, is this only at the shelters themselves or are the stealth campers getting hit at all?
sofaking
05-08-2008, 12:20
i see nowhere in any link you've posted where it says it's okay for a hiker to carry concealed. there is mention of hunters, in certain areas. you need to re-read all of your supporting evidence and find anything that permits you to carry while hiking the trail, also, if you're so convinced that it's okay to carry on certain parts, explain to me how you transport your gun around the parts where there is no confusion...
just wait for a hiker carrying a concealed weapon to take matters into their own hands...the general consensus among the gun carrying population seems to be that law enforcement(of any kind) can't be relied upon to 'protect the population from the big scary world' and that it's their 'right' to preempt the law and to dispense 'cowboy justice' as they see fit. there won't be too many problem animals left in gsmnp...at least not 4 legged ones.
You can't be that stupid. "Take matters into their own hands",? Some of us call that DEFENDING ourselfs. If one of the two he killed in 1981 had a gun this guy wouldn't be around to "try" it again nor would we have paid 50k per year times 15 to keep him up and healthy so he could do it again. Theres just no nice word for stupid I'll tell ya.
sofaking
05-08-2008, 12:26
You can't be that stupid. "Take matters into their own hands",? Some of us call that DEFENDING ourselfs. If one of the two he killed in 1981 had a gun this guy wouldn't be around to "try" it again nor would we have paid 50k per year times 15 to keep him up and healthy so he could do it again. Theres just no nice word for stupid I'll tell ya.
defending 'OURSELVES'- sometimes there's no nice way of pointing out stupid, i'll tell you.
"Rely on LEO's out in the wild? I guess they'll take the same road up trail the Ambulance will to the where you fell and busted your leg. Go ahead and call 911 and tell them you heard a "strange noise" outside the shelter vs hearing a strange noise outside your back door. Hmmm
Tipi Walter
05-08-2008, 12:35
Are there any moderators on this thread? The obsessive gun lovers have once again taken over an original thread which had no mention of guns, just about bears and relocation of bears, etc. The testosterone thrill of handling a gun hypnotizes these post responders to threads concerning outdoor threats and so they spew forth their constant 'what-ifs' couched in 'personal security and defense' but yawn it grows tiresome and off-point. Way off-point.
sofaking
05-08-2008, 12:35
"Rely on LEO's out in the wild? I guess they'll take the same road up trail the Ambulance will to the where you fell and busted your leg. Go ahead and call 911 and tell them you heard a "strange noise" outside the shelter vs hearing a strange noise outside your back door. Hmmm
they just went a got some lard-a$$ last week because he was tired...i'm guessing your idea of 'wilderness' is somewhat smaller than mine.
take-a-knee
05-08-2008, 12:44
defending 'OURSELVES'- sometimes there's no nice way of pointing out stupid, i'll tell you.
Not necessarily, I think you are doing a fine job without our help.
defending 'OURSELVES'- sometimes there's no nice way of pointing out stupid, (?) i'll (?) tell you.
That makes your point? Thats all you got?
I don't think anyone or everyone should carry a weapon and no the "gun lovers" haven't taken over the thread. Don't remark "against" them and then cry foul when someone comes back "for". I'm not wasting anymore time on someone arguing "their" agenda point of view vs a factual situation. No mods needed on my account. Just don't flame someone the minute they mention "gun".
sofaking
05-08-2008, 12:48
i'm glad you're feeling better.
Lone Wolf
05-08-2008, 12:50
i see nowhere in any link you've posted where it says it's okay for a hiker to carry concealed. there is mention of hunters, in certain areas. you need to re-read all of your supporting evidence and find anything that permits you to carry while hiking the trail, also, if you're so convinced that it's okay to carry on certain parts, explain to me how you transport your gun around the parts where there is no confusion...
you're not supposed to carry concealed pot or other drugs but lotsa hikers do
Bulldawg
05-08-2008, 12:52
I love my gun, I often sleep with it under my pillow!
sofaking
05-08-2008, 12:53
you're not supposed to carry concealed pot or other drugs but lotsa hikers do
yeah, hippies will do that...but they're pretty easy to ignore. except when they get together in groups, then those stupid bongos appear and it smells like a rainbow gathering...
Bulldawg
05-08-2008, 12:56
I also believe it is illegal to litter in a national forest.......where was the LEO that you are depending on to protect you when this jerk emptied his trash bag behind I log I sat down on last week? If we are to expect LE to protect us in the backcountry we should also expect them to be there to cite that jerk should we not?
they just went a got some lard-a$$ last week because he was tired...i'm guessing your idea of 'wilderness' is somewhat smaller than mine.
So I guess you were there and have first hand knowledge of THE FACTS, oh wait you said THEY went and got the person so you must be assuming. And your idea of "wilderness" is exactly my point. What are you going to do when some lard a$$ tired of you wakes up in your immediate area and pulls a knife wanting to kill you, call the cops? Nice. Your point of view is OK with me it is. I wouldn't want someone like you with such a narrow field of common sense carrying one around me either. You would probably leave the bullets home to save weight wouldn't you.
sofaking
05-08-2008, 13:04
So I guess you were there and have first hand knowledge of THE FACTS, oh wait you said THEY went and got the person so you must be assuming. And your idea of "wilderness" is exactly my point. What are you going to do when some lard a$$ tired of you wakes up in your immediate area and pulls a knife wanting to kill you, call the cops? Nice. Your point of view is OK with me it is. I wouldn't want someone like you with such a narrow field of common sense carrying one around me either. You would probably leave the bullets home to save weight wouldn't you.
quit trying to be witty and try instead to follow the discussion...i've never had any use for the cops, and i'm not worried about anybody with a knife. i'm just not scared of being in the woods without a gun. it's okay if you are, i'm not laughing at you, i'm just trying to point out that you're breaking the same laws you claim to understand...
yeah, hippies will do that...but they're pretty easy to ignore. except when they get together in groups, then those stupid bongos appear and it smells like a rainbow gathering...
And someone's gun in their pack that you don't even know is there can't be "ignored"? I'd rather someone have a gun in their pack then put up with "hippies" as you called them that's also committing an illegal act that actually effects my immediate standard of living and wilderness experience in an adverse way. You just pick and chose which laws you like which supports your "moral point of view" for a particular argument. Just stop.
sofaking
05-08-2008, 13:17
And someone's gun in their pack that you don't even know is there can't be "ignored"? I'd rather someone have a gun in their pack then put up with "hippies" as you called them that's also committing an illegal act that actually effects my immediate standard of living and wilderness experience in an adverse way. You just pick and chose which laws you like which supports your "moral point of view" for a particular argument. Just stop.
your arguments and your logic are weak. i'll stop posting on this thread because you asked, and you make me weary of listening to the same old redneck rhetoric.
I've never had any use for the cops, and I'm not worried about anybody with a knife. i'm just trying to point out that you're breaking the same laws you claim to understand...[/quote]
What I understand is that having been a LEO in a large municipality (over 500k) for several years I have been in more situations than I can remember where I needed my weapon when I never thought I would. It has on several occasions literally saved my life. My understanding is experience but I don't carry a gun very much on trail either. Depends on my pack load and duration. Don't recomend it either. Just don't like hearing someone bash someone because they don't subscribe to their personal dislike for guns agenda. If some idiot pulls out a gun in the shelter and is showing it off no he doesn't need to have one and I'd be nervous too.
cavscout
05-08-2008, 13:31
The obsessive gun lovers have once again taken over an original thread which had no mention of guns, just about bears and relocation of bears, etc. The testosterone thrill of handling a gun hypnotizes these post responders to threads concerning outdoor threats and so they spew forth their constant 'what-ifs' couched in 'personal security and defense' but yawn it grows tiresome and off-point. Way off-point.
To be more accurate, it was the anti-gun side of the debate that initiated the de-railment. ie. "just wait for a hiker carrying a concealed weapon to take matters into their own hands...the general consensus among the gun carrying population seems to be that law enforcement(of any kind) can't be relied upon to 'protect the population from the big scary world' and that it's their 'right' to preempt the law and to dispense 'cowboy justice' as they see fit. there won't be too many problem animals left in gsmnp...at least not 4 legged ones."
your arguments and your logic are weak. i'll stop posting on this thread because you asked, and you make me weary of listening to the same old redneck rhetoric.
Yea,,, LOL,,,,OK. I'll stop pointing out the lack of facts in your assumptions and shooting "whitty" holes in your personal moral atack arguments.
Gonna go iron my reble flag now and clean my hiking gun for trail days.
just wait for a hiker carrying a concealed weapon to take matters into their own hands...the general consensus among the gun carrying population seems to be that law enforcement(of any kind) can't be relied upon to 'protect the population from the big scary world' and that it's their 'right' to preempt the law and to dispense 'cowboy justice' as they see fit. there won't be too many problem animals left in gsmnp...at least not 4 legged ones.
Just for a point of order here in post #6 sofaking hijacked this thread with the the first mention of "guns" and insults. NOT the obsessive gun lovers.
Gray Blazer
05-08-2008, 14:52
you're not supposed to carry concealed pot or other drugs but lotsa hikers do
I bet some would fight back if someone tried to take that.
Does defending the rights of my fellow Americans make me an obsessive gun owner? Am I spewing "what ifs" because of a supposed "testosterone thrill"? What's your advice? Let the criminal take my stuff, kill my family. Should I just bend over and say kiss me?
dessertrat
05-08-2008, 15:04
This is awful. From bears to concealed weapons? Let's exercise the right to arm bears, I would say. Less trouble.
naturejunkie
05-08-2008, 18:38
This is awful. From bears to concealed weapons? Let's exercise the right to arm bears, I would say. Less trouble.
Amen brother!
Cookerhiker
05-08-2008, 18:49
So in an attempt to get back on topic...
Any possibility of fixing the shelters with cables (like Georgia) or bear boxes (like NJ) or even the metal "trees" like in Shenandoah NP? That may not keep the bears away from the shelters in the short run but along with signs advising hikers to place all of their food and aromatic stuff in the devices, the bears would eventually see there's no payoff.
Skidsteer
05-08-2008, 18:55
just wait for a hiker carrying a concealed weapon to take matters into their own hands...the general consensus among the gun carrying population seems to be that law enforcement(of any kind) can't be relied upon to 'protect the population from the big scary world' and that it's their 'right' to preempt the law and to dispense 'cowboy justice' as they see fit. there won't be too many problem animals left in gsmnp...at least not 4 legged ones.
You hijacked the thread, sofaking.
Think about it before you post the next time.
sofaking
05-08-2008, 18:59
You hijacked the thread, sofaking.
Think about it before you post the next time.
and you'd better meet my demands if you ever want this thread back alive, BWAA HAA HAA!
Skidsteer
05-08-2008, 19:13
and you'd better meet my demands if you ever want this thread back alive, BWAA HAA HAA!
But I don't care about keeping this thread alive.