Booze on the trail

[brickwoodjr]

I have been stalking around on the forum for a while and have noticed a few stories of people taking some go go juice with them on the trail. Is this a dont ask dont tell type of thing or is it normal to see folks stubbling down the trail?

[mrc237]

Only responsible drinkers on the AT never seen a stubbler not even once.

[sofaking]

people look like they're stumbling down the trail all the time, booze has little to do with it. a little bit of hooch for 'medicinal purposes' is par for the course for me...don't want to get snake bit or anything, do you? in snp you can get single beers and local wines at the waysides, and the best part- you can kick back at a picnic table right out front and enjoy them. if you want to see hikers stumbling drunk, go to trail daze.

[Sly]

I look forward to a nightly cocktail.

[OwlsRevenge]

don't know if he was on the AT or not, but there's a silly video of a drunk guy that can't stand up on (natch) youtube.
I'm sure somewhere along the trail, someone is horribly drunk tonight. Just don't tell their mom, ok? ;)

[4eyedbuzzard]

I stumble when I'm sober anyway. Might as well sail straight and bring The Captain

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c265/heveymetalhead/captain_morgan.jpg

[Pootz]

Starting carrying an adult beverage during my thru hike in Virginia. Looked forward to a nightly beverage all the way to Main. My choice was Jim Beam. Never once overdid it or saw anyone else.

[Summit]

Most hikers doing any kind of distance do not carry much alcohol due to the weight. If you feel the urge/need to party, best save it for the trail towns, or first night out from a trail town. I very, very seldom run into hikers doing any serious drinking. Most hikers shun away from the few who do. There are better things to enjoy on a hike and doing any kind of miles the next day with a hangover isn't any fun at all! :eek:

[Tin Man]

My hiking partner and brother wasn't named "Bartender" for nothin'. :cool:

[Tin Man]

There are better things to enjoy on a hike and doing any kind of miles the next day with a hangover isn't any fun at all! :eek:

Hangovers are for amateurs. You gotta know your limitations... and drink to them. ;)

[brickwoodjr]

Just making sure i wont be known as "That guy with the clankin bag"

[sofaking]

what is a hangover? is it like a scenic overlook?

[Tin Man]

what is a hangover? is it like a scenic overlook?

Yep, near 5 Olde in Hanover.

[sofaking]

Just making sure i wont be known as "That guy with the clankin bag"
buy travellers, plastic bottles...glass is heavy and you still have to pack it out, beam makes a 750 ml traveller and most sub brands of anything come in plastic. the only glass i will consider is regional wines, cause the empty bottle fits nicely in my side pouch. but box wine solves that dilemma easily...

[sloopjonboswell]

hee hee

[TIDE-HSV]

what is a hangover? is it like a scenic overlook?

Why, yes, it is. And it has a beautiful view of the SW side of the GSMNP...

[88BlueGT]

You don't have to clunk... just get the Nalgene flask :) then when your done with it you can use it to carry extra water if you want. Plus you don't have the weight of a glass bottle!

[George]

I like a good bourbon and chocolate while reading the shelter register or book. A nice liquor store will open a wine bottle for you + into the gatoraide bottle it goes till the town is behind you

[Gaiter]

there is a youtube video of two guys falling over drunk on the AT, but only seen the falling over drunkinness at 'events' (i.e. trail days, soruck {not excluding myself}) to heavy to carry, and that first climb out of every town is always a buzz kill (in my opinion)

[Matteroo]

while I never saw someone stumbling on the trail - i witnessed many times people's pre-occupation with drinking lead them to drink in churches or lodging that specifically highlighted that the only rule they had was not to drink. Almost entirely in town, of course, but to say there aren't serious drinkers - we need to clarify what a serious drinker is - cause I say there are plenty of serious drinkers on the trail, fortunately the trail is a bit more serious than their drink.

seemed like a fair number appreciated the trail of course, but when not drinking in town, and out hiking, had their minds on the next town and drink that they would find there.

to each their own, and I enjoyed alcohol on trail and in town too - but I guess I found the consistent pre-occupation with it by some to be a bit old, and witnessing it's consumption under the noses of people offering hospitality was terrible-that is my only regret from hiking the trail - not confronting people in those situations.

[Bootstrap]

what is a hangover? is it like a scenic overlook?

I suggest you ask this question in the Hammocks Forum.

Jonathan

[Tin Man]

to each their own, and I enjoyed alcohol on trail and in town too - but I guess I found the consistent pre-occupation with it by some to be a bit old, and witnessing it's consumption under the noses of people offering hospitality was terrible-that is my only regret from hiking the trail - not confronting people in those situations.

Confronting drunks while they are drunk is usually not a good idea. You might try a quick "hey fellas, you need to get a grip. Why don't you go find a place to crash and leave these decent folks alone?" But don't push it or you might make matters worse for both yourself and those you are trying to help. If their behavior is really bad, such as causing damage or being lewd, reporting them to the authorities is the best way to handle the situation.

[Summit]

Some people can handle alcohol in moderation, which is fine. Most people, myself included, are best to "not play with fire" at all! If your alcohol consumption produces even occasional behavior that you later regret, do yourself a favor and give it up. I did and am so very glad I did! ;) And before someone else brings it up, the Bible does not condemn drinking alcohol. It does condemn drunkenness. So if you can drink without getting to the drunk stage, fine. If not, do yourself AND YOUR LOVED ONES a favor and find a new hobbie! :D

[4eyedbuzzard]

Yeah, I don't think there is any Biblical prohibition regarding er, ah, prohibition. Drunk and obnoxious is another story. Even in the NT I think that first miracle puts the notion of any prohibition to rest ;)

I think Colin Fletcher carried and even cached wine on occaision, though used it in moderation of course. IIRC, in The Complete Walker (I or II?) , Fletcher considered the weight vs effect of alcohol and concluded that everclear or other pure spirits would be most efficient - obviously a sober decision. He also commented that pot was perhaps an even more efficient intoxicant by weight, though he didn't recommend either as I remember.

Nothing wrong with a little snort or two at the end of a day. My favorites are schnapps in hot cocoa or irish whiskey in coffee on a cool evening around a good fire.

[Alligator]

... ;) And before someone else brings it up, the Bible does not condemn drinking alcohol. It does condemn drunkenness. ...It's a good thing you cleared that up before anyone else. There's a few people on this site who vociferously project their Bible viewpoints.

[max patch]

I enjoyed alcohol on trail and in town too - but I guess I found the consistent pre-occupation with it by some to be a bit old, and witnessing it's consumption under the noses of people offering hospitality was terrible-that is my only regret from hiking the trail - not confronting people in those situations.

Thats difficult to do.

I too sat in church hostels with no drinking signs clearly posted and watched as other thrus drank alcohol on the premises.

Finally, tho, in Hanover at the church hostel I spoke up. The pastor of the church was feeling used and abused by hikers and there were rumours that the hostel would be discontinued. Hikers were drinking in the sanctuary one night. I asked them to stop and they did.

Hostel closed anyway at the end of the season.

[Appalachian Tater]

Plenty of alcoholics thru-hike and not just your older whiskey nippers. I was surprised at how many are young and how much beer they can drink. Usually poor behavior caused by alcohol is restricted to towns but I remember once incident in particular when a small group of young hikers stayed up all night drinking beer and being very loud in a shelter/campground area. I made sure they got an early start at daybreak because they wouldn't hold it down when asked nicely earlier in the morning.

[Flush2wice]

Gator-aide has a new flavor- Sour Mash.

[Fiddleback]

I like to drink...I really, really do. I also like to keep wits...as in, "I like to keep my wits about me." I think the trail requires more wits than most other places and I think it's risky behavior to imbibe on the trail. I'm not talking about getting drunk but then again such a state is just a matter of drawing lines. Each drink affects coordination and the thought process and each drink is additive and leads to another level of intoxication.

I don't drink when I fly (even as a passenger), I don't drink and drive (or drink, then drive) and, while I seldom ride, I don't think much about a beer in one hand and reins in the other. I don't drink on the trail.

On the other hand, the concept of a 'designated hiker' is intriguing.:D

FB

[Alligator]

Don't walk and drink. You might hit a rock and spill your whiskey:D.

There's usually plenty of disincentive to walk (for mileage) after drinking, such as that steep climb out of Port Clinton heading SOBO:datz.

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

As Summit notes, if drinking causes you living problems, you probably need to leave the stuff alone. I am one who cannot handle drinking so I leave the stuff alone. Matteroo mentions those who are obsessed with when they will have their next drink - that sort of thinking is common in the early stages of alcoholism and giant warning flare that problems may lie ahead.

Now, for those that can drink in moderation - has anyone used a bladder to carry alcohol? I would think a liter (http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___12320) of liquor would allow a couple to enjoy a mixed drink or two in the evenings between resupply points. I hiked with a fellow who carried 8 ozs of 151 rum in a lexan baby bottle (cut off the nipple to make a washer for the seal) and mixed himself a pina coloda using a mix every night - said it helped him sleep.

[Wise Old Owl]

Sort of Don't Drink & Hike or Freinds don't let Freinds Hike Drunk?

[Alligator]

Sort of Don't Drink & Hike or Freinds don't let Freinds Hike Drunk?That's it LOL. Don't Drink & Hike. You might hit a rock and spill your whiskey. Or, Friends don't let friends hike drunk without sippy cups. Or, Only You Can Prevent Forest Fires Due to Intoxication.

[Alligator]

A drunk hiker gathers moss.

[JayMosier]

Personally I smoke pot, I dont stumble

[sofaking]

bag o wine- 5 liters... jesus said, and i quote: 'yea, verily taketh thy box of thine wine, for it is fruit of thy fathers vines- removeth thy skin from within...hiketh til thine feet need annointing and partaketh of thy skin, and thee will suffer no more, so sayeth i- mix master J.C. is in da house!'

[Wise Old Owl]

A drunk hiker gathers moss.

I thought this was the Humor Section... Oh Well.

I once took my brother hiking & took additional items in my backpack such as sandwiches extra pocho's the Ten Essentials, & extra water. About the 5th mile he opens his ruck and says he's tierd of carrying - and passes a canned beer, He only had half a case in there and nothing else...Imagine my surprise...

[ChimneySpring]

I remember once incident in particular when a small group of young hikers stayed up all night drinking beer and being very loud in a shelter/campground area.

Sounds like the annual visitors at Sam Moore. What's accepted protocol when you can hear Bruce Springsteen being played from 1/4 mile away?

[Alligator]

I thought this was the Humor Section... Oh Well.
There's absolutely nothing funny about waking up after a bender covered in moss and with a beard as long as LW's. Please drink responsibly.

[sofaking]

Sounds like the annual visitors at Sam Moore. What's accepted protocol when you can hear Bruce Springsteen being played from 1/4 mile away?
yell S.T.F.U! loud enough to be heard over the boss...

[jlore]

the bible does condem drinking proverbs 20:1

Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

[sofaking]

the bible does condem drinking proverbs 20:1


Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

are you standing on your soap box or thumping your book?

[Mags]

the bible does condem drinking proverbs 20:1


http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+2:1-11


King Solomon and JC may want to hash out their differences. ;)

Beside there is this little ditty also written by King Solomon:

I am come into my garden, my sister, my spouse: I have gathered my myrrh with my spice; I have eaten my honeycomb with my honey; I have drunk my wine with my milk: eat, O friends; drink, yea, drink abundantly, O beloved.

(Song of Songs)

So, if wine is good enough for JC AND King Solomon..it is good enough for me. (King Solomon sounds like a paisan. Always telling people to eat!)

Wine with a meal is just civilized. Be it at Grandma Mags' table growing up, around a campfire with friends..or a Jewish wedding in Canaan.

[leeki pole]

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+2:1-11


King Solomon and JC may want to hash out their differences. ;)
But the Baptist preachers down here say it was grape juice and not wine, as of the alcoholic variety. I think they're "Welch"-ing their bets.:)

[Dances with Mice]

But the Baptist preachers down here say it was grape juice and not wine, as of the alcoholic variety. I too have heard that from otherwise strict interpretationalists and always found it quite miraculous.

[Mags]

But the Baptist preachers down here say it was grape juice and not wine, as of the alcoholic variety. I think they're "Welch"-ing their bets.:)

Yep. Every wedding has grape juice! :)

Jesus even had a Seder dinner as his "Last Supper" according to Biblical tradition. My closest friends in Boulder are Jewish and I've had the honor of attending their Seder dinner for the past five years. While the little guy (not quite 2) may have grape juice, the adults are having wine.

I can tell you, Jesus, being a good Jewish boy, would NOT have grape juice at a wedding or a Seder supper. ;)

So..good enough for JC, Solomon, friends at a Seder supper..good enough for me at a camp fire. :D

[sofaking]

maniscewitz is a little to sec for my palate...i like a hearty burgundy or merlot...

[Tin Man]

Baptizing A Drunk

A man is stumbling through the woods totally drunk
when he comes upon a preacher baptizing people in the
river. The drunk walks into the water and subsequently
bumps into the preacher. The preacher turns around and
is almost overcome by the smell of booze. Whereupon he
asks the drunk, 'Are you ready to find Jesus?'

'Yes, I am,' replies the drunk, so the preacher grabs
him and dunks him in the river. He pulls him up and
asks the drunk, 'Brother, have you found Jesus?'

The drunk replies, 'No, I haven't.' The preacher,
shocked at the answer, dunks him into the water again,
but for a bit longer this time. He pulls him out of
the water and asks again, 'Have you found Jesus, my brother?'

The drunk again answers, 'No, I have not found Jesus.'
By this time the preacher is at his wits end so he
dunks the drunk in the water again, but this time he
holds him down for about 30 seconds.

When the drunk begins kicking his arms and legs, the
preacher pulls him up. The preacher asks the drunk
again, 'For the love of God, have you found Jesus?'

The drunk wipes his eyes and catches his breath and
says to the preacher,



'Are you sure this is where he fell in? ? ?'

[Mags]

maniscewitz is a little to sec for my palate...i like a hearty burgundy or merlot...

My buddy calls that wine "Jewish Mad Dog".

Their are actually good kosher wines now available in abundance around Passover. Of course, my buddy always buys Manischewitz because it would not be a Seder without this really bad, really sweet, awful wine. Gotta keep traditions I suppose. (Same reason why I insist that Christmas Eve is just not the same without squid. (http://www.sevenfishesblog.com/7/2006/11/))

This wine IS made with Concord grapes (the same as Welches), so maybe that is why the Baptist ministers are getting mixed up? :D

[Wise Old Owl]

There's absolutely nothing funny about waking up after a bender covered in moss and with a beard as long as LW's. Please drink responsibly.


As I don't have a beard that would be one hell of a long term bender - moss & all

[sofaking]

My buddy calls that wine "Jewish Mad Dog".


This wine IS made with Concord grapes (the same as Welches), so maybe that is why the Baptist ministers are getting mixed up? :D
a-ha! the plot thickens...

[4eyedbuzzard]

the bible does condem drinking proverbs 20:1


Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.


Well, no pious Jew, including Jesus, would drink wine or other if that were the case. If you read Proverbs carefully you'll find all sorts of passages relating to alcohol, some for, some against. It depends largely upon the context of what is being warned against.

In the real world grape juice ferments to wine from the natural yeast and sugars of the grape - the resulting alcohol acts as a preservative, which is why wine was and is so widely consumed. Throughout history, it has often generally been safer to drink wine than water.

And BTW, exactly what was that first miracle again?

[DesertMTB]

I have been stalking around on the forum for a while and have noticed a few stories of people taking some go go juice with them on the trail. Is this a dont ask dont tell type of thing or is it normal to see folks stubbling down the trail?

Pfft. Enjoying a few drinks doesn't cause someone to stumble down the trail. If you don't like seeing people like myself drinking a beer or a shot of whiskey. Too bad. Get over it.

[Wise Old Owl]

Pfft. Enjoying a few drinks doesn't cause someone to stumble down the trail. If you don't like seeing people like myself drinking a beer or a shot of whiskey. Too bad. Get over it.

I agree, all to often we have people who assert their values on everybody else. If you don't want to see drinking behavior stay out of the bar. Silly laws like preventing second hand smoke in a bar. Lawsuits over costume malfunctions at football games. Or having a dog on the trail.:rolleyes:

[envirodiver]

Some red wine with dinner on the trail is a real luxury. A couple of sips of Maker's Mark is also very nice after camp is set up or sitting around in the evening.

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

There will always be those who make up the rules and then go looking for Biblical passages to validate the rules they want to impose. It is clear from reading the entire passage from John 2 about the first miracle that the wine under discussion is fermented:

1 On the third day a wedding took place at Cana in Galilee. Jesus' mother was there, 2 and Jesus and his disciples had also been invited to the wedding. 3 When the wine was gone, Jesus' mother said to him, "They have no more wine." 4 "Dear woman, why do you involve me?" Jesus replied, "My time has not yet come."
5 His mother said to the servants, "Do whatever he tells you."
6 Nearby stood six stone water jars, the kind used by the Jews for ceremonial washing, each holding from twenty to thirty gallons.
7 Jesus said to the servants, "Fill the jars with water"; so they filled them to the brim.
8 Then he told them, "Now draw some out and take it to the master of the banquet."
They did so, 9 and the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew. Then he called the bridegroom aside 10 and said, "Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have had too much to drink; but you have saved the best till now."
Source: Biblegateway.com (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=50&chapter=2&version=31&context=chapter)

Based on this, it is amply clear the use of alcohol is not forbidden by the Christian faith.

[Summit]

the bible does condem drinking proverbs 20:1


Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.
Then explain these verses:

He waters the mountains from his upper chambers;
the earth is satisfied by the fruit of his work.
He makes grass grow for the cattle,
and plants for man to cultivate—
bringing forth food from the earth: wine that gladdens the heart of man,
oil to make his face shine,
and bread that sustains his heart.

Psalm 104:13-15

I discern that to mean that God "(He) makes . . . wine that gladdens the heart of man." God made/gave us something (wine/alcohol) that could be used wisely or unwisely (deceiving themselves from your scripture reference): the choice is ours to use it one way or the other. As I said, those with a track record of "being deceived" by it should abstain. Your verse has nothing to do with it being a sin. If that's the case then Jesus sinned and we're all in deep, deep trouble! :eek:

[weary]

the bible does condem drinking proverbs 20:1

Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.
You can find permission to do virtually anything you may want to do in the Bible. I especially like the admonition to drink "a little wine for thy stomach's sake."

Weary

[DesertMTB]

Then explain these verses:

He waters the mountains from his upper chambers;
the earth is satisfied by the fruit of his work.
He makes grass grow for the cattle,
and plants for man to cultivate—
bringing forth food from the earth: wine that gladdens the heart of man,
oil to make his face shine,
and bread that sustains his heart.

Psalm 104:13-15

I discern that to mean that God "(He) makes . . . wine that gladdens the heart of man." God made/gave us something (wine/alcohol) that could be used wisely or unwisely (deceiving themselves from your scripture reference): the choice is ours to use it one way or the other. As I said, those with a track record of "being deceived" by it should abstain. Your verse has nothing to do with it being a sin. If that's the case then Jesus sinned and we're all in deep, deep trouble! :eek:


Nice post Summit. I would like to hike with you someday.

[IceAge]

I hope I don't run into too many "strict interpretationalists" on the trail, because picking up sticks on the Sabbath is against the rules and they would have to stone me to death!

Of course, some LNTers might be tempted to do the same thing...

[Wise Old Owl]

Ice Age,

Religious Estreamist's on the trail? quick call the National Security!

[Newb]

At the Tray Mtn. Shelter on April 12th we had a little impromptu party. I had a half of bottle of wine (White Rabbit, it comes in a 700 ml box. perfect for hiking) and two beers. The beers were given to me by a couple of nurses who were camping at the road near the base of Tray mtn. It was a great yogi!

Another hiker had hauled a 12 of PBR up to the shelter and yet another hiker had a pint of Sailor's Rum. Nobody wanted to carry any of it the next day...so...we had some fun. I slept well.

[billy231]

I am frequently accompanied by Jim, Jack & Jose on my section hikes.

[sofaking]

I am frequently accompanied by Jim, Jack & Jose on my section hikes.
are they the three amigos or the three stooges?

[jlore]

the bible does condem drinking proverbs 20:1


Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.



that is what the bible says man.

[Appalachian Tater]

If I remember correctly, Jesus himself turned water into wine, so it is very hard to make a case forbidding it from anything else in the christian bible. Jesus is one part of a tripartite god so it would be like arguing with god.

[sofaking]

that is what the bible says man.
which version/edition/revision/interpretation/translation do you subscribe to?

[Mags]

To what Summit said.. I'll drink to that!

[envirodiver]

are they the three amigos or the three stooges?

amigos prior to consumption...stooges following consumption.

[dessertrat]

I too have heard that from otherwise strict interpretationalists and always found it quite miraculous.

Ridiculous. The reason they had wine was because it would keep for a long time, and it's the fermentation that makes it keep. Grape juice would grow hairy mold on it in a week's time if in olden dayse Jerusalem.

Whether wine at that time was a bit weaker (or stronger) than modern wine in terms of alcohol content is a good question. Whether it was "grape juice" is nonsense.

[sofaking]

Ridiculous. The reason they had wine was because it would keep for a long time, and it's the fermentation that makes it keep. Grape juice would grow hairy mold on it in a week's time if in olden dayse Jerusalem.

Whether wine at that time was a bit weaker (or stronger) than modern wine in terms of alcohol content is a good question. Whether it was "grape juice" is nonsense.
grape/fruit juice will either ferment into wine, if it's kept air tight, or into vinegar, if air is present.

[Summit]

Nice post Summit. I would like to hike with you someday.I would be honored to hike with you. What's your schedule? :) I'm going to Shining Rock Wilderness May 29-Jun 1st, and planning a week hike on the AT from 10/10-18. Planning to do Sam's Gap to 19E (about 70 miles).

[Summit]

that is what the bible says man.Context, my friend, context! Did you pay any attention to what I said, or do you just rip scripture out of the Bible and throw it at people? If so, you do a great disservice to the cause you are attempting to serve. :-?

I could make your head swim in verses that disspell your proposal that wine (alcohol) is sinful in and of itself. Here's just one of many:

He will love you, bless you, and multiply you. He will also bless the fruit of your womb and the fruit of your ground, your grain and your wine and your oil, the increase of your herds and the young of your flock, in the land that he swore to your fathers to give you. Deut 7:13

If wine is sinful, why would God bless the Israelites with it? :-?

[Tin Man]

grape/fruit juice will either ferment into wine, if it's kept air tight, or into vinegar, if air is present.

I like to convert my beverages into an aqueous solution of waste electrolytes and metabolites sooner rather than later. Storage is never an issue.

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

Context, my friend, context! Did you pay any attention to what I said, or do you just rip scripture out of the Bible and throw it at people? If so, you do a great disservice to the cause you are attempting to serve. :-?:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap

[Summit]

that is what the bible says man.Perhaps a better understanding of this verse is found in a more modern translation, like the ESV:

Wine is a mocker, strong drink a brawler, and whoever is led astray by it is not wise.This does not condemn wine. To be "led astray" means to misuse something that God gave us, that He blessed us with. It, along with the preceeding 5 verses of Proverbs 19 is called the "catalog of fools" with the above verse the chilling conclusion. Know your Bible before you go on offense with it, my friend. ;)

[jlore]

Some people can handle alcohol in moderation, which is fine. Most people, myself included, are best to "not play with fire" at all! If your alcohol consumption produces even occasional behavior that you later regret, do yourself a favor and give it up. I did and am so very glad I did! ;) And before someone else brings it up, the Bible does not condemn drinking alcohol. It does condemn drunkenness. So if you can drink without getting to the drunk stage, fine. If not, do yourself AND YOUR LOVED ONES a favor and find a new hobbie! :D

this is why i posted on this thread. you said that the bible does not condemn drinking alcohol, but to be called decived and unwise by God is a pretty harsh condemnation.

[Alligator]

What do you have to blow to get a DU from GOD:-?.

[sofaking]

What do you have to blow to get a DU from GOD:-?.
.666% ?

[Alligator]

.666% ?LOL, I'm definitely good then.

[Two Speed]

That would depend on which God has jurisdiction.

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

this is why i posted on this thread. you said that the bible does not condemn drinking alcohol, but to be called deceived and unwise by God is a pretty harsh condemnation.Assuming you are a Christian and believe Christ lived a sin-free life, then how do you explain that a sin-free man provided alcoholic beverage for a wedding celebration? (John 2 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%202%20;&version=9;) from KJV - Jesus turns water turned into wine)

[jlore]

which version/edition/revision/interpretation/translation do you subscribe to?

king james version

[DesertMTB]

I would be honored to hike with you. What's your schedule? :) I'm going to Shining Rock Wilderness May 29-Jun 1st, and planning a week hike on the AT from 10/10-18. Planning to do Sam's Gap to 19E (about 70 miles).


Doing an AT hike over the long Memorial Day weekend. Not sure where yet. My brother and I were a day or so behind you last October south of Winding Stair Gap. I'm at a point in my life where I want to have fellowship with Christians.

[Wise Old Owl]

Ok I give up.... This was supposed to be thread on alcohol on the trail - how did it derailed around the Bible? And should we be doing Bible study here at WB? Although I am religious, I would never post those thoughts here, save it for a Bible blog.

Besides, we are all sinners. - Fermentation is a natural process - Yes man improved upon it.

A slip off the foot you may recover, a slip of the tongue you may never get over! - Ben Franklin


NEVER SAY NEVER

[jlore]

Assuming you are a Christian and believe Christ lived a sin-free life, then how do you explain that a sin-free man provided alcoholic beverage for a wedding celebration? (John 2 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%202%20;&version=9;) from KJV - Jesus turns water turned into wine)

I believe that Jesus made was non alcoholic wine because otherwise he would have contradicted himself with proverbs 20:1. What is the benefit of him making alcoholic wine? Couldn’t have Jesus made any kind of wine he wanted to?

[sofaking]

i think i'm going to get one of those lexan martini glasses for my upcoming section hike. it'll go swell with my titanium spork.

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

I believe that Jesus made was non alcoholic wine because otherwise he would have contradicted himself with proverbs 20:1. What is the benefit of him making alcoholic wine? Couldn’t have Jesus made any kind of wine he wanted to?Then why does John 2:10 say that the better wine was normally served first and then lessor quality wine after the guest had drank a lot and wouldn't notice? Drinking large quantities of grape juice does not dull the senses, but drinking large quantities of alcohol does.

[envirodiver]

i think i'm going to get one of those lexan martini glasses for my upcoming section hike. it'll go swell with my titanium spork.

It'll also fit right in with the 16 oz. Lexan Nalgene Martini shaker. It's even calibrated for proper mixology. Also, don't forget the dehydrated olives (have to put them on the little plastic sword prior to dehydrating, cause it's really difficult to get that sword through dehydrated olives).

[Wise Old Owl]

Ok, I will bite.... JESUS NEVER DRANK THE WINE. - NOW i AM OUT OF HERE FOR A FEW HOURS - i WILL BE AT THE PUB!

LUKE 22 15 And he [Christ Jesus] said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:
16 For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.
17 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves:
18 For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.
19 ¶ And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

MARK 14 22 ¶ And as they did eat, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and brake it, and gave to them, and said, Take, eat: this is my body.
23 And he took the cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them: and they all drank of it.
24 And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.
25 Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God.

MATTHEW 26 26 ¶ And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.
27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.

1-CORINTHIANS 11 23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:
24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord's death till he come.

[sofaking]

i used to have two of the lexan wine glasses. would take the woman up to places that were a short hike from roads to enjoy sunsets...used to being the operative words, heh heh...

[envirodiver]

Ok, I will bite.... JESUS NEVER DRANK THE WINE. - NOW i AM OUT OF HERE FOR A FEW HOURS - i WILL BE AT THE PUB!

LUKE 22 15 And he [Christ Jesus] said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:
16 For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.
17 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves:
18 For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.
19 ¶ And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

MARK 14 22 ¶ And as they did eat, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and brake it, and gave to them, and said, Take, eat: this is my body.
23 And he took the cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them: and they all drank of it.
24 And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.
25 Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God.

MATTHEW 26 26 ¶ And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.
27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.

1-CORINTHIANS 11 23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:
24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord's death till he come.

Did they have agave cactus in that area?

[Bear Cables]

I never had alcohol on a hike until last summer on the AT with my college sons (22&25) They packed a flask of whisky. I was nice to have a sip at the end of a hard day. I was thinking about packing a liter of French Rabbit Pino Noir this trip but not sure if I want the exta weight considering the thread I posted about getting lighter!
Besides, it makes that first beer off the trail that much more fun!

[sofaking]

Did they have agave cactus in that area?
no no no... that guy was named jesus, pronounced 'hay suss'- his first miracle was turning one roofer into a subcontracting crew of 11, making his first company and his 12 disciples, who also happened to be related to him...esse.

[Tin Man]

What do you have to blow to get a DU from GOD:-?.


.666% ?

I am pretty sure that would be in the flesh, er make that in the spirits...

[envirodiver]

no no no... that guy was named jesus, pronounced 'hay suss'- his first miracle was turning one roofer into a subcontracting crew of 11, making his first company and his 12 disciples, who also happened to be related to him...esse.

Si http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/laughing025.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/laughing025.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/laughing025.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)

http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/laughing021.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/laughing021.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/laughing021.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/laughing021.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)

[Mags]

I'm a sinner!

http://www.pmags.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=15096&g2_serialNumber=2&g2_GALLERYSID=9b7269e0127675108ae6001d1d0952b4

http://www.pmags.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=15706&g2_serialNumber=2&g2_GALLERYSID=9b7269e0127675108ae6001d1d0952b4

I will brag though: Even with the box of wine that I packed in (that my good friend is drinking [1]), I still had the lightest pack for the Wind River trip. :D

[1]. Like Jesus, he is an Israeli who enjoys wine!

[2] Jesus made non-alcoholic wine ?!?!?!?!

[Mags]

Ok, I will bite.... JESUS NEVER DRANK THE WINE. - NOW i AM OUT OF HERE FOR A FEW HOURS - i WILL BE AT THE PUB!




Egads! He's an enabler!!!!

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

What do you have to blow to get a DU from GOD:-?.
.666% ?This would work since people die from alcohol toxicity between .45 and .5
no no no... that guy was named jesus, pronounced 'hay suss'- his first miracle was turning one roofer into a subcontracting crew of 11, making his first company and his 12 disciples, who also happened to be related to him...esse.
Si http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/laughing025.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/laughing025.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/laughing025.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)

http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/laughing021.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/laughing021.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/laughing021.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/laughing021.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)Amen to that, brother Envirodiver

[SteveJ]

<clip>Now, for those that can drink in moderation - has anyone used a bladder to carry alcohol? <clip>

:D

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=17784&catid=member&imageuser=6309

took a litre of good scotch on that 4-day trip - shared and brought some home!

I use the platy bladder with the push/pull cap
http://www.platypushydration.com/product_detail.aspx?ProdID=24

I keep the bladder in the outside pocket of my GGVT - it's never leaked, and I don't find that the bladder affects the taste of the good scotch.....

[Mags]

A slip off the foot you may recover, a slip of the tongue you may never get over! - Ben Franklin





“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”


--Ben Franklin

:D

[Mags]

E-mail posted 2x for some reason. Sorry!

[Summit]

I believe that Jesus made was non alcoholic wine because otherwise he would have contradicted himself with proverbs 20:1. What is the benefit of him making alcoholic wine? Couldn’t have Jesus made any kind of wine he wanted to?Like FD said, if Jesus' wine had been non-alcoholic, the guests would not have thought it better than the first wine.

I've heard the argument for "new wine" by some saying it was mere grape juice. It's a very weak argument. Here's a verse that you will have to come up with a different reason for:

But if that place is too distant and you have been blessed by the Lord your God and cannot carry your tithe (because the place where the Lord will choose to put his Name is so far away), then exchange your tithe for silver, and take the silver with you and go to the place the Lord your God will choose. Use the silver to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink, or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat (and drink) there in the presence of the Lord your God and rejoice. Deuteronomy 14:24-26 NIV
Jesus called the crowd to him and said, “Listen and understand. What goes into a man’s mouth does not make him ‘unclean,’ but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him ‘unclean.’ ” Matthew 15:10-11 NIVThis verse, in the context of putting alcohol into one's mouth, doesn't make one "unclean" (a sinner), but if you put enough alcohol into your mouth to make bad things (words) come out of your mouth, or bad actions on your part, then that is what makes you "unclean" (a sinner).

[Wise Old Owl]

“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”


--Ben Franklin

:D


Yea that was what I was originally looking for - Now my wife is arguing that Jesus drank wine.... Go figure. So I asked for evidence, she said talk to Minister.


Mags if you are ever in the area and decide to sin on the trail give me a call I will hike!

[Summit]

Yea that was what I was originally looking for - Now my wife is arguing that Jesus drank wine.... Go figure.What's to argue about? He did. Nothing could be clearer. He did not get drunk, obviously for He was "without sin."

Put another way, that Jesus did drink wine is a fact. That Jesus IS without sin is also a fact. Therefore the act of drinking wine cannot be a sin.

To keep this thread on track, take a Bible with you on your hike and in it, read about "booze . . . on the trail!" :D

[Skidsteer]

I believe that Jesus made was non alcoholic wine because otherwise he would have contradicted himself with proverbs 20:1. What is the benefit of him making alcoholic wine? Couldn’t have Jesus made any kind of wine he wanted to?

Wine is alcoholic. Grape juice is non alcoholic.

Without modern refrigeration or chemicals you can only reasonably hope to keep grape juice non-alcoholic for two to three days. Ask anyone that grows grapes.

The Jews of Jesus' time were known to mix their wine with water and/or spices. But they didn't always do this and they were not required to.

Near as I can figure their 'mixed wine' was pretty close to our American beer. Does that make you feel better?



Like FD said, if Jesus' wine had been non-alcoholic, the guests would not have thought it better than the first wine.

I've heard the argument for "new wine" by some saying it was mere grape juice. It's a very weak argument. Here's a verse that you will have to come up with a different reason for:
This verse, in the context of putting alcohol into one's mouth, doesn't make one "unclean" (a sinner), but if you put enough alcohol into your mouth to make bad things (words) come out of your mouth, or bad actions on your part, then that is what makes you "unclean" (a sinner).

Preach it brother.

[weary]

E-mail posted 2x for some reason. Sorry!
Maybe a bit too much wine?

[sofaking]

Near as I can figure their 'mixed wine' was pretty close to our American beer. Does that make you feel better?




Preach it brother.
jesus was a milwaulkee's best ice man? that does make me feel better!

[Mags]

This thread is great! It brought the religious people (Summit and others) with heathens like myself into common agreement.

Wine is good.
Beer is good.
Moderation is good.

Therefore liquor in the backcountry, in moderation, is good. :)

Let's all drink to that!

[Mags]

Maybe a bit too much wine?


Well, I am at work. Perhaps it is something I added to correct my coffee? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caff%C3%A8_corretto)

[sofaking]

cheers and salud!

[Foyt20]

I am a heathen and i will be bringing some JAmesons with me next week on my trip. That is all.

[Summit]

I am a heathen and i will be bringing some JAmesons with me next week on my trip. That is all.A pack full of Jamesons? No tent? No sleeping bag, food, or clothing? You rock! :eek:

[Blissful]

There was drinking when we were out last year. On Springer Mtn the first night some 2006 post thru hikers were passing around the bottle - not sure if it was whiskey or what. And at a few hostels (namely Standing Bear) there was a huge beer party. Also at Partnership shelter (which I hear is now banned). I ignored it all.

As for me, since I had a drinking problem 25 years ago, I have purposely not drunk anything. But the last few years I did have a glass of wine with my husband a couple of times (one time in Venice - who can pass that up! once at a wedding and then on our anniversary).

[sheepdog]

I had a hiking partner that used to say," When a man opens a tequila bottle, he is telling his friends, I'd rather be alone.":o

[Phil1959]

Jim Beam!

[Pete Moss]

What's to argue about? He did. Nothing could be clearer. He did not get drunk, obviously for He was "without sin."

Put another way, that Jesus did drink wine is a fact. That Jesus IS without sin is also a fact. Therefore the act of drinking wine cannot be a sin.

To keep this thread on track, take a Bible with you on your hike and in it, read about "booze . . . on the trail!" :D

Nothing from the bible is fact, just throwing that out there.

[sofaking]

w.c. fields used to say: 'i don't drink water, fish f\/{k in it...'

[sheepdog]

Nothing from the bible is fact, just throwing that out there.
Someone trolling for a flame war? I'm not biting.:D:D:D

[Summit]

Nothing from the bible is fact, just throwing that out there.How utterly wrong you are! Just throwing that in there! :) Archaeological findings and other historical documents have validated/verified many, many events, places, and people in the Bible.

For many years Sir William Ramsey was professor of humanity at the University of Aberdeen, Scotland. He was, in his time, the world's most eminent authority on the geography and history of ancient Asia Minor (Turkey today). In his zeal to study every available early document concerning that period and area, he undertook an intensive research of the New Testament book of Acts and also the Gospel of Luke. This study, however, was approached with much skepticism. At that time he penned the following description of the book of Acts: "a highly imaginative and carefully colored account of primitive Christianity."
But after many years of intensive study, this scholar, who began an unbeliever, became a staunch defender of the Word of God. The absolute historical accuracy of Luke's writings, even in the most minute details, captured first his brain and then his heart. Ramsey authored many books, but one of his better known is entitled: The Bearing of Recent Discovery on the Trustworthiness of the New Testament. Ramsey's overall opinion of the Bible is perhaps best seen in the following quote:
"I take the view that Luke's history is unsurpassed in regard to its trustworthiness you may press the words of Luke in a degree beyond any other historian's and they stand the keenest scrutiny and the hardest treatment."

So I have a decision to make: I can believe in the relentless pursuit of truth by the likes of Mr. Ramsey (there are many others), or I can believe your empty, baseless claim! :eek:

[Skidsteer]

I had a hiking partner that used to say," When a man opens a tequila bottle, he is telling his friends, I'd rather be alone.":o

Different strokes.

Personally, if it's tequila the party's on. My heart is 'gladdened'.

Jack Daniels? Not so much. Best leave me alone for a couple days. That's why I haven't consorted with Jack since I was 21. ;)

[sloopjonboswell]

for pike county so loved his wiki, that he gave his only begotten liver, for whosoever, believith that a drunk man says what a sober man thinks, shall surely perish like all the other saps, and will dwell in the house of lord calvert, forever. style.
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/1/1/8/1/0/warming_hut_thumb.jpg

[SteveJ]

<clip>To keep this thread on track, take a Bible with you on your hike and in it, read about "booze . . . on the trail!" :D

I usually also bring a pocket testament along with me on my trips!

[Press]

My favorite comment of all time in a shelter log:
"Chris got drunk and slept on the picknic table."
Drink more tea, the George Harrison kind.

[Summit]

:D


took a litre of good scotch on that 4-day trip - shared and brought some home!

I use the platy bladder with the push/pull cap

I keep the bladder in the outside pocket of my GGVT - it's never leaked, and I don't find that the bladder affects the taste of the good scotch.....I never carry any due to the weight not being worth it, IMHO. I don't even like to carry much water if I don't have to. But I might accept a little (something that would mix well with my Crystal Lite tea, like rum) from one of you fine WBers! :)

[Del Q]

Jeez.........long thread.

I usually "carry", 20oz or so of good Scotch, nice to have some extra weight the first few days as I get my "legs on", then less weight (motivation to finish off the "hooch")and faster/longer days.

Works for "Q" on the T.

[Bulldawg]

Near as I can figure their 'mixed wine' was pretty close to our American beer. Does that make you feel better?


I actually remember watching a show on Discovery channel or something like that where they found some pottery that had traces of yeast, spices, etc. in it. They were pitching it as some of the first beers made on the planet. These beers as Mr. Skids put it, were made of grapes, spices, water, and sometimes grains. The first beers. This pottery was found where? You guessed it, Jerusalem. The first beers in the world quite possibly were "brewed" in Jerusalem. What a concept.

[envirodiver]

Personally, if it's tequila the party's on. My heart is 'gladdened'.

;)

Yes my friend, the party is on.

[Tin Man]

Different strokes.

Personally, if it's tequila the party's on. My heart is 'gladdened'.

Jack Daniels? Not so much. Best leave me alone for a couple days. That's why I haven't consorted with Jack since I was 21. ;)

I can relate to that, but in the reverse order. ;)

[Tin Man]

Jeez.........long thread.

I usually "carry", 20oz or so of good Scotch, nice to have some extra weight the first few days as I get my "legs on", then less weight (motivation to finish off the "hooch")and faster/longer days.

Works for "Q" on the T.

Thread length is totally related to the ignorance/arrogance fractal - the more ignorant/arrogant people are about a topic, the longer it lingers and expands geometrically into many more tangential topics - and subsequently, the more fracked it becomes. That's why the political threads are invisible to the wise. ;)

Pass the single malt...please.

[envirodiver]

Thread length is totally related to the ignorance/arrogance fractal - the more ignorant/arrogant people are about a topic, the longer it lingers and expands geometrically into many more tangential topics - and subsequently, the more fracked it becomes. That's why the political threads are invisible to the wise. ;)

Pass the single malt...please.

The "Is Warrgehy real" thread being the exception. May not be of interest to everyone, but the topic changes on a posts notice.

Maker's and a splash here please.

[Maple]

Ephesians 5:18
New American Standard Bible (http://nasb.scripturetext.com/ephesians/5.htm) (©1995) (http://www.lockman.org/)
And do not get drunk with wine, for that is dissipation, but be filled with the Spirit,King James Bible (http://kingjbible.com/ephesians/5.htm)
And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

[warraghiyagey]

Is beer booze???:-?

[Tin Man]

The "Is Warrgehy real" thread being the exception. May not be of interest to everyone, but the topic changes on a posts notice.

Maker's and a splash here please.

I agree that thread is exceptional - exceptionally what I would rather not say. :)

[envirodiver]

I agree that thread is exceptional - exceptionally what I would rather not say. :)

Feel ya, everything is not for everyone :D

[vonfrick]

I agree that thread is exceptional - exceptionally what I would rather not say. :)

why thank you. please help yourself to some lotion friend. :sun

[Tin Man]

why thank you. please help yourself to some lotion friend. :sun

Lotion?

[sofaking]

dried fig? anyone...?

[sloopjonboswell]

absolutely stupid. off topic and worthless.

[dmax]

now i see. thats why you shouldn't drink and hike. you might get booze on the trail.

[sofaking]

now i see. thats why you shouldn't drink and hike. you might get booze on the trail.
that, and it's hard to hold a martini glass and a trekking pole at the same time...

[4eyedbuzzard]

that, and it's hard to hold a martini glass and a trekking pole at the same time...

Keeps you on the right course though. The red pimento in the olive always points north.

[sofaking]

Keeps you on the right course though. The red pimento in the olive always points north.
i did not know that! very interesting...

[Captain]

I stumble when I'm sober anyway. Might as well sail straight and bring The Captain

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c265/heveymetalhead/captain_morgan.jpg


you called?

[Tin Man]

that, and it's hard to hold a martini glass and a trekking pole at the same time...

That explains LW' opposition to poles.

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

Bladder plus bite valve - problem solved :D

[Tin Man]

Drink beer through a straw?? :eek:

[Alligator]

Drink beer through a straw?? :eek:Pretend its a funnel.

[Pete Moss]

How utterly wrong you are! Just throwing that in there! :) Archaeological findings and other historical documents have validated/verified many, many events, places, and people in the Bible.

For many years Sir William Ramsey was professor of humanity at the University of Aberdeen, Scotland. He was, in his time, the world's most eminent authority on the geography and history of ancient Asia Minor (Turkey today). In his zeal to study every available early document concerning that period and area, he undertook an intensive research of the New Testament book of Acts and also the Gospel of Luke. This study, however, was approached with much skepticism. At that time he penned the following description of the book of Acts: "a highly imaginative and carefully colored account of primitive Christianity."
But after many years of intensive study, this scholar, who began an unbeliever, became a staunch defender of the Word of God. The absolute historical accuracy of Luke's writings, even in the most minute details, captured first his brain and then his heart. Ramsey authored many books, but one of his better known is entitled: The Bearing of Recent Discovery on the Trustworthiness of the New Testament. Ramsey's overall opinion of the Bible is perhaps best seen in the following quote:
"I take the view that Luke's history is unsurpassed in regard to its trustworthiness you may press the words of Luke in a degree beyond any other historian's and they stand the keenest scrutiny and the hardest treatment."

So I have a decision to make: I can believe in the relentless pursuit of truth by the likes of Mr. Ramsey (there are many others), or I can believe your empty, baseless claim! :eek:
-Ok, so I wasnt here last night to reply to this......this says nothing but that this guy says that he BELIEVES Luke's writings to be accurate. I'm sure there are alot of other folks in Mr. Ramsey's field that would disagree with him. That is your FAITH and I am respectful of that, but please respect my opinion of the Bible to be nothing more than good fables.Not trolling for trouble, just pointing out that not all believe the bible to be fact.

[4eyedbuzzard]

I think that the Truth lies somewhere between Biblical inerrancy and complete fable.

[Mags]

Drink beer through a straw?? :eek:

Talk to the Egyptians and Babylonians.. :)

the beer had to be strained with wooden syphons, used as a straw, because it was filled with impurities)
http://www.thekeep.org/~kunoichi/kunoichi/themestream/egypt_alcohol.html (http://www.thekeep.org/%7Ekunoichi/kunoichi/themestream/egypt_alcohol.html)

It was beer that drank like a meal!

[Wise Old Owl]

Talk to the Egyptians and Babylonians.. :)

the beer had to be strained with wooden syphons, used as a straw, because it was filled with impurities)
http://www.thekeep.org/~kunoichi/kunoichi/themestream/egypt_alcohol.html (http://www.thekeep.org/%7Ekunoichi/kunoichi/themestream/egypt_alcohol.html)

It was beer that drank like a meal!

Thank you Mags, that was a good read!

Sofa King - I bet Tony Sinclair of Tanguay fame could show you how to hold a glass & hikings stick!

[4eyedbuzzard]

Just FWIW, The beer we drink today is mostly malted barley and other grains(good) and/or rice(cheaper) flavored with hops. The hops were added originally not just for flavor but also as a natural preservative. Here's another bit of beer history for those interested. http://www.coopsmaps.com/beer/hops.html

[superman]

Just FWIW, The beer we drink today is mostly malted barley and other grains(good) and/or rice(cheaper) flavored with hops. The hops were added originally not just for flavor but also as a natural preservative. Here's another bit of beer history for those interested. http://www.coopsmaps.com/beer/hops.html

It's not that it cured leprosy...it was just that they didn't worry so much about their parts rotting off.

[Summit]

please respect my opinion of the Bible to be nothing more than good fables.Not trolling for trouble, just pointing out that not all believe the bible to be fact.Hopefully you are aware that the vast majority of leading atheist debaters in the world do not deny the historical accuracy and characters of the Bible. Most even acknowledge that Jesus was a real historical person. Of course, they deny his deity, but they at least do not make absurd claims like yours, denying the vast documentation of validation of biblical history as to events, people, and places. But I certainly will not invade on your right to believe whatever you make up your mind to believe . . . everyone does that anyway! :D ;)

[saimyoji]

In Japan the taxation of different alcoholic beverages is based on their "beer-ness," or rather, malt content.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happoshu

[Summit]

this says nothing but that this guy says that he BELIEVES Luke's writings to be accurate.Completely off the mark again! Ramsey's books speak to the relentless lifetime of research he did. He didn't just read about stuff like most people do today (Internet). He visited the sites from the writings of Acts and Luke. He rolled up his sleeves and got dirty investigating "the case" of the authenticity of Luke's writings. He dug through other literature of that period; poured over archaeological findings, etc. Ramsey gained the reputation and respect from others in his field of be relentless and thorough in his research. For you to say he just "BELIEVES Luke's writings to be accurate" implies you really don't think much into the situation, but YOU ARE the one who JUST BELIEVES what you want to believe in spite of plenty of evidence to the contrary. ;)

[taildragger]

that, and it's hard to hold a martini glass and a trekking pole at the same time...

Thats why I'm modifying mine to hold my sippie cup of Evan Williams, or Woodford (depends on the day and the bank acct).

Those break down lexan martini glasses are tempting, I could be high society hiker trash:banana

[4eyedbuzzard]

Hopefully you are aware that the vast majority of leading atheist debaters in the world do not deny the historical accuracy and characters of the Bible. Most even acknowledge that Jesus was a real historical person. Of course, they deny his deity, but they at least do not make absurd claims like yours, denying the vast documentation of validation of biblical history as to events, people, and places. But I certainly will not invade on your right to believe whatever you make up your mind to believe . . . everyone does that anyway! :D ;)

I as an agnostic, and my wife as a Jew, do not believe in the diety of Jesus, but of course for very different reasons. But both of us agree that many of the people and events in the Bible are very likely factual, and there is a lot of evidence and written accounts that would confirm this view.

In any event, it can be a fascinating subject to talk and learn about (even over a few beers or glasses of wine;)) provided the conversation is civil. I think too many times people jump to conclusions, pidgeon hole people, and assign judgements as to other's moral and ethical values based simply upon whether they profess belief or not. Personally, I find that it's way more complicated than that.

[sofaking]

i'm just standin' in the rain talkin' to myself. - luke 19:67

[Pete Moss]

Completely off the mark again! Ramsey's books speak to the relentless lifetime of research he did. He didn't just read about stuff like most people do today (Internet). He visited the sites from the writings of Acts and Luke. He rolled up his sleeves and got dirty investigating "the case" of the authenticity of Luke's writings. He dug through other literature of that period; poured over archaeological findings, etc. Ramsey gained the reputation and respect from others in his field of be relentless and thorough in his research. For you to say he just "BELIEVES Luke's writings to be accurate" implies you really don't think much into the situation, but YOU ARE the one who JUST BELIEVES what you want to believe in spite of plenty of evidence to the contrary. ;)

There is always two sides to every story. Just beacuse hegained a reputation and got respect from those in his field, doesnt mean everyone in his field agrees with his findings. Its like the scientists claiming they have proof of the big bang theory or proof of intelligent design. Alot of the findings may be good and accurate, but those that disagree always have findings too that contradict. I'm sure Mr. Ramsey had colleagues that disagreed with his findings. BOTTOM LINE- If the bible was 100% fact then there would be no other religions except christianity. I think it best to agree to disagree on this matter, in this forum. However I dont mind having a civil debate with you on the matter through PM if you would like.

P.S.- BEER OUT OF THE CREEK AFTER A LONG DAY IS NEVER BETTER

[sofaking]

they speak of my drinking but never think of my thirst. - scottish proverb

[Jaybird62]

There is always two sides to every story. Just beacuse hegained a reputation and got respect from those in his field, doesnt mean everyone in his field agrees with his findings. Its like the scientists claiming they have proof of the big bang theory or proof of intelligent design. Alot of the findings may be good and accurate, but those that disagree always have findings too that contradict. I'm sure Mr. Ramsey had colleagues that disagreed with his findings. BOTTOM LINE- If the bible was 100% fact then there would be no other religions except christianity. I think it best to agree to disagree on this matter, in this forum. However I dont mind having a civil debate with you on the matter through PM if you would like.

P.S.- BEER OUT OF THE CREEK AFTER A LONG DAY IS NEVER BETTER

Christian=Christ like, meaning, trying to live your life like Jesus lived His life....God gives everyone a free will and choice to live and believe how they want. That does not change the fact that there is right and wrong. BTW, if the Bible is just "stories" and Jesus was just another man, whats up with our calendar system, you know, AD or BC. Explain that one to me.:-?

[taildragger]

Christian=Christ like, meaning, trying to live your life like Jesus lived His life....God gives everyone a free will and choice to live and believe how they want. That does not change the fact that there is right and wrong. BTW, if the Bible is just "stories" and Jesus was just another man, whats up with our calendar system, you know, AD or BC. Explain that one to me.:-?

We changed that to BCE and CE now, uses the same reference points, but it sounds more pc

[Pete Moss]

Christian=Christ like, meaning, trying to live your life like Jesus lived His life....God gives everyone a free will and choice to live and believe how they want. That does not change the fact that there is right and wrong. BTW, if the Bible is just "stories" and Jesus was just another man, whats up with our calendar system, you know, AD or BC. Explain that one to me.:-?


It is commonly thought that BC stands for "before Christ" and AD stands for "after death." This is only half correct. How could 1 B.C. have been "before Christ" and 1 A.D. been "after death"? BC does stand for "before Christ." AD actually stands for the Latin phrase "anno domini" which means "in the year of our Lord." The B.C. / A.D. dating system is not taught in the Bible. It actually was not fully implemented and accepted until several centuries after Jesus' death.

It is interesting to note that the purpose of the BC / AD dating system was to make the birth of Jesus Christ the dividing point of world history. However, when the B.C. / A.D. system was being calculated, they actually made a mistake in pinpointing the year of Jesus' birth. Scholars later discovered that Jesus was actually born in around 4-6 BC, not 0 AD. That is not the crucial issue. The birth, life, ministry, death, and resurrection of Christ are the "turning points" in world history. It is fitting, therefore, that Jesus Christ be the separation of "old" and "new." BC was "before Christ" and since His birth, we have been living "in the year of our Lord." Philippians 2:10-11, "That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

So...your are half to mostly right, but again, just beacuse we use this as a dating system DOES NOT make the bible fact. And i agree that there is right and wrong in the world, respect and understanding goes a long way though.

[Pete Moss]

[quote=Pete Moss;624199]It is commonly thought that BC stands for "before Christ" and AD stands for "after death." This is only half correct. How could 1 B.C. have been "before Christ" and 1 A.D. been "after death"? BC does stand for "before Christ." AD actually stands for the Latin phrase "anno domini" which means "in the year of our Lord." The B.C. / A.D. dating system is not taught in the Bible. It actually was not fully implemented and accepted until several centuries after Jesus' death.

It is interesting to note that the purpose of the BC / AD dating system was to make the birth of Jesus Christ the dividing point of world history. However, when the B.C. / A.D. system was being calculated, they actually made a mistake in pinpointing the year of Jesus' birth. Scholars later discovered that Jesus was actually born in around 4-6 BC, not 0 AD. That is not the crucial issue. The birth, life, ministry, death, and resurrection of Christ are the "turning points" in world history. It is fitting, therefore, that Jesus Christ be the separation of "old" and "new." BC was "before Christ" and since His birth, we have been living "in the year of our Lord." Philippians 2:10-11, "That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."
from wikipedia

[sofaking]

it is christ himself, not the bible, who is the true word of god. the bible, read in the right spirit and with the guidance of good teachers, will bring us to him. we must not use the bible as a sort of encyclopedia out of which texts can be taken for use as weapons. - c.s. lewis

[Mags]

Wow..this is making my head hurt.

Time to grab some more wine...

In vino veritas!

[sofaking]

Wow..this is making my head hurt.

Time to grab some more wine...

In vino veritas!

no kidding...i'm trying to learn how to be civil and polite in conversations online. it's not easy for me, i would much rather just say s.t.f.u. and belittle most people on most subjects, but i've come across a certain 'good ol boy' mentality among some posters here that i'm going to do my best to ridicule and belittle, as politely as possible.

[taildragger]

no kidding...i'm trying to learn how to be civil and polite in conversations online. it's not easy for me, i would much rather just say s.t.f.u. and belittle most people on most subjects, but i've come across a certain 'good ol boy' mentality among some posters here that i'm going to do my best to ridicule and belittle, as politely as possible.

Just becuase I make my own booze you just gotta label me as a goold ol' boy in this thread :rolleyes:

[sofaking]

Just becuase I make my own booze you just gotta label me as a goold ol' boy in this thread :rolleyes:
if your making your own 'dew' i'd like to call you a 'good ol' friend'...

[sofaking]

let me clarify my earlier post a little, i was not talking about posters on this specific thread- not only do i need to learn manners, i apparently need to learn syntax...

[Mags]

Just becuase I make my own booze you just gotta label me as a goold ol' boy in this thread :rolleyes:

My dad's uncles used to make their own wine.

Not sure if they were good ole boys or not. Their relatives were contadini I suspect...

Now, if I make my own beer..what does that make me? :-?

[Pete Moss]

Home-Brewers!!!!!

[taildragger]

Some good oak leaf wine on the trail would be delicious, and compliment the AT very well (nothing like combining taste and visual)

[insider2185]

did someone say homebrew??!!:banana

In my opinion a good homebrew can beat any commerical beer of the same type...but thats just me

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

it is christ himself, not the bible, who is the true word of god. the bible, read in the right spirit and with the guidance of good teachers, will bring us to him. we must not use the bible as a sort of encyclopedia out of which texts can be taken for use as weapons. - c.s. lewis::: Dino looks on SofaKing with respect for quoting C. S. Lewis in this discussion :::

[Summit]

BOTTOM LINE- If the bible was 100% fact then there would be no other religions except christianity.I think in reality, we live in a world that disproves your statement! ;)

[sheepdog]

i'm just standin' in the rain talkin' to myself. - luke 19:67
You seem to quote Luke 19:67 in a lot of different ways.:rolleyes: Must have one of them advanced versions. :D

[vonfrick]

We changed that to BCE and CE now, uses the same reference points, but it sounds more pc

thank you

[vonfrick]

::: Dino looks on SofaKing with respect for quoting C. S. Lewis in this discussion :::

me too :)

[vonfrick]

Just becuase I make my own booze you just gotta label me as a goold ol' boy in this thread :rolleyes:

i still got that 500mL of diethyl, does that make me a 'good ol'girl'? its all just chemistry.;)

[taildragger]

i still got that 500mL of diethyl, does that make me a 'good ol'girl'? its all just chemistry.;)

mmmmm ether.........http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q239/mwafrika2/drooling_homer.gif

[vonfrick]

yupperdoodle

[warraghiyagey]

I like girls

[Captain]

well its always healthy to like yourself

[warraghiyagey]

well its always healthy to like yourself
If only. I'd never leave the house.:p

[brickwoodjr]

My god what have i created. We have religion and we have booze, this is usually when i quietly slip out the back door with some other guys beer, right before the fists start to fly.

[Bare Bear]

HYOH just be considerate of others.

[superman]

As I hiked, I would think about drinking cold beer. Then I'd get to town, buy a six-pack, drink two beers and fall asleep. The next morning I'd give the rest of the six-pack to the first thru hiker I saw before I hiked on.
The best booze on the trail was when I stood in a row of other hikers as Datto shared his small bottle of Bacardi. It tasted like...like... more. It absolutely hit the spot.

[DesertMTB]

The next morning I'd give the rest of the six-pack to the first thru hiker I saw before I hiked on.


Let me know the next time you are on the trail:D