View Full Version : REI Sub-Kilo: Too good to be true?
bladefreak
02-08-2004, 22:26
I've been looking for a bag. What I wanted was primarly for spring/fall trips, with just a little winter and summer travel as well. The 20° rating and weight of 2 lbs, 2-3 oz combined with a price of less than $250 seem to be just what I'm looking for. Any red flags before I buy?
dude,
check out the marmot sawtooth +15, i think 2lb 14 oz. its a roomy mummy.
rei standsby there products and will refund with out question.
I would recommend you try another brand of bag .... Do you know what REI stands for???? Return Equipment Immediately
deeddawg
02-09-2004, 09:06
I would recommend you try another brand of bag .... Do you know what REI stands for???? Return Equipment ImmediatelyWaldo, have you actually used this bag, or are you just parrotting some trendy catchphrase because you think it sounds cool?
Bladefreak: I have a SubKilo and bought my son a Marmot Sawtooth 15F, both at REI Scratch & Dent sales. The Marmot is roomier and definitely lofts more than the SubKilo.
The 20F rating of the SubKilo is a little optimistic if you sleep in your skivvies, but with polypro longjohns & a fleece top, I've been comfortable in this bag in my Hennessy Hammock with the overnight temps dipping to 19F with stiff wind. I used a green egg-carton style foam pad underneath.
Actual measured weight of my SubKilo with a 7x15" Equinox sil-nylon stuff-sack (seam sealed) is 36.7oz on my digital 5lb postal scale.
If the SubKilo fits you and you can get it on sale (such as with a members 20% off coupon), it's a decent bag for the money. At $100 for the Scratch & Dent one I got (some idgit put a small hole in the fabric when cutting off the tag, requiring 10 minutes with needle & thread to repair), it's a great bag for the money.
And as Cabalot said, it can't hurt to try the SubKilo since you can easily return it if it doesn't work for you.
-- Lew
Unless you jump to the top end, a sleeping bag is pretty much a sleeping bag. The listed weight will be too low, as will be the temperature rating. So, I would check out something like http://www.sierratradingpost.com and buy one of the Marmot or Sierra Designs downbags that are routinely on sale. You can get something good for around $150.
I'm not a really big fan of REI stuff, finding it mostly overpriced and not well built, but I do have some stuff from them that has seen a lot of use and is still used today. The Subkilo may be worth it. But, if it were me, I'd pony up $150 for a Marmot instead.
Youngblood
02-09-2004, 10:22
Bladefreak,
Just some things to think about.
A sleeping bag is one of the more expensive items for backpacking so you want to do your homework and try to get something you will be happy with. Are you in a position to crawl in different bags and get an idea of the size that you are most comfortable in? The REI Sub Kilo that you mentioned has a specified shoulder girth of 57 inches (6 footer size) and that is a little on the small size. Other bags may have a larger shoulder girth and may be more to your liking, but if all other things are equal they will weigh a little more, pack a little larger and cost a little more.
As you are aware of, weight is typically inversely proportional to cost and quality and a 20 degree down sleeping bag suitable for backpacking can vary in cost from probably around $100 to more than $300, the weight will probably vary from less than 2 pounds to more than 3 pounds and the compressed/packed size will vary from about 7 inch diameter with a 13 inch length (7x13) to 8x17. (BTW, I calculate a 7x13 as 500 cubic inches and a 8x17 as 850 cubic inches.) To complicate things even more, the temperature ratings are based on the manufacturers guidelines and integrity (and some manufacturers have more integrity than others) so pay attention to loft, fill weight and type of down.
Youngblood
Unless you jump to the top end, a sleeping bag is pretty much a sleeping bag. The listed weight will be too low, as will be the temperature rating. So, I would check out something like http://www.sierratradingpost.com and buy one of the Marmot or Sierra Designs downbags that are routinely on sale. You can get something good for around $150.
I'm not a really big fan of REI stuff, finding it mostly overpriced and not well built, but I do have some stuff from them that has seen a lot of use and is still used today. The Subkilo may be worth it. But, if it were me, I'd pony up $150 for a Marmot instead.
I think the best deal on a 20 degree down bag is the Campmor mummy bag. 20 degree rating weighing in at 2lbs 4 oz for $109. It does not have a DWR finish but for a $109.00, it is a great value. I will agree with Chris that unless you are going to shell out for a high end bag you might as well get as economical a purchase as possible. Here is the link:
http://www.campmor.com/webapp/commerce/command/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=86896&prmenbr=226
If you are going to go 200-250 on a bag you might as well shell out the extra $20-$50 bucks and go with a Western Mountaineering Ultralite or Apache. They are both in that range and I have never heard anything bad said about Western Mountaineering bags. I know that they are pricey but I do not think you will be sorry. I bought both my WM bags at www.moosejaw.com as they will kick you 10% or more off the price if you are Moosejaw member, not just a store credit at the end of the year like REI. If you are gearing up for a hike of any legnth the membership will pay for itself after a few purchases and it is good for life.
Footslogger
02-09-2004, 13:13
I carried the REI Sub-Kilo from Springer to Pearisburg and then again from Glancliff to Katahdin. Performed well. I tend to be a warm sleeper so you have to take that into account. That said ...there were a few nights in the beginning and end of the hike when I did wear a couple layers of clothes to sleep in but I'd rather have done that than carry a heavier sleeping bag that I rarely ever truly needed.
I sprayed my Sub-Kilo with some Techron (water repellant spray) before the hike and never had any moisture issues inside the sleeping bag itself, even though it did rub against the occasional condensation on the inside wall of my tent.
Moon Monster
02-09-2004, 22:39
I've used this bag for 2 years, including for every day of an AT thru-hike. There are no red flags.
Search the archives here for more threads on this very bag. There are also some good threads on the backpacker.com boards.
Like others have said here, you should have other good options to consider in the $250 +/- range, so don't buy the sub-kilo at regular price before shopping around. If you can get a good discount, though, it is a good bag to buy and try out.
I've been looking for a bag. What I wanted was primarly for spring/fall trips, with just a little winter and summer travel as well. The 20° rating and weight of 2 lbs, 2-3 oz combined with a price of less than $250 seem to be just what I'm looking for. Any red flags before I buy?
I've used one for over a year, the hardest use was the Ptarmagin Traverse in the Cascades and AT multi-day trips. Excellent bag for the price and weight. With any light weight bag you're sacrificing some amount of fabric strength for weight so be careful with getting the fabric caught in the zipper. I recommend it.
hikerltwt
02-14-2004, 11:48
I hiked with a fellow that used the bag on an AT Thru in 2003. Seemed he was always warm enough in it. I used the WM Ultralight and can't praise the bag enough.
I just purchased one in Dec. on sale for $145. This bag has been on my "wish list" for 2 years, since I read the praises of users on Backpacking Light. I have purchased most of my gear from REI and I have 2 or 3 of everything (depends on weather, season, desert, mtns., and partners). Thier gear is good to great in quality and the service is tops.
The bag is narrow,57" chest (less space to heat), so be sure that it's not too tight for your comfort.
There are at least two methods of making a bag impressively light, but the two most used are:
1) Make the bag out of exotic, expensive , top of the line materials.
2) Make it so that no one of average girth can fit in it.
REI has chosen the latter with the sub kilo.
Tinker
There are at least two methods of making a bag impressively light, but the two most used are:
1) Make the bag out of exotic, expensive , top of the line materials.
2) Make it so that no one of average girth can fit in it.
REI has chosen the latter with the sub kilo.
Tinker
i am 5'7" small frame w/beer belly. campmores bags are the same. they do the job but dont plan on stretching out or tossing and turning. you have to lay with your arms at your sides, like a mummy.
i am buying the marmot sawtooth 20+. :banana
Texas Dreamer
04-07-2004, 16:44
I have been considering the sub-kilo myself, and so was researching the old entries for info--keep hearing references to small size and narrow fit. I also have been researching quilts, and it seems that the whole idea is a narrower profile to save weight, but use it upside down and open to the back. Wouldn't the sub-kilo serve the same purpose? If it is too narrow, just use it as a quilt. Comments?
Moon Monster
04-07-2004, 16:58
Wouldn't the sub-kilo serve the same purpose? If it is too narrow, just use it as a quilt. Comments?
Opening up any bag like this is an option for when it is too warm outside to be inside it. I draped the SubKilo over me like a quilt many nights last summer. But, full bags are too heavy and bulky to carry just to use 100% of the time as a quilt. When you need to be all the way in the bag (with the hood on and cinched) at temps down near its rating is when you want the girth to be comfortable. And the colder temps is why a quilt will not work all seasons. I thought the SubKilo was plenty roomy enough--it's all a matter of preference so just test drive one under REI's return policy before commiting.
deeddawg
04-07-2004, 17:11
Have to agree with Moon Monster. I have a SubKilo and have used it in temps ranging down to an overnight 19F low (with a bunch of wind) in my hammock. Yes, the 20F rating is a little optimistic, but with clothing layers I am comfortable through the night.
Your mileage may vary -- I tend to be a warm sleeper.
I don't find the bag too narrow at all -- but I can see how it might be too narrow for folks who's own girth runs towards the large side. I'm about average find am quite happy with it. Buy whatever fits you -- if you need more girth, go for a larger bag. If you don't, I think it's silly to carry more sleeping bag than you need.
Texas Dreamer
04-07-2004, 17:20
I'm just about average "girth" right now, after a big weight loss (due to finally taking my AT dream seriously and "getting out there"), and I'm exactly five feet tall. One of the reasons I am looking at this bag is that it comes in a short. I just don't see any reason to carry the weight of an extra foot of sleeping bag. If anyone has any recommendations of other bags which come in short lengths, I'll look into those as well.
My wife has the REI sub-kilo (short) bag and I have the Marmot Pinnacle (regular) bag. Both of us are of about average girth for our height. While we don't find either of the bags to be roomy, neither are they cramped. I think it's a good balance between having enough room to squirm a little and not having too much empty air space inside the sleeping bag to keep warm. Both of us think that the temperature ratings are somewhat marginal. When the temps get below 30* we add a thermolite liner. Personally I think that the biggest plus for both of the bags is the small size when compressed. The low weight also helped make up our minds. We paid $150 for the REI bag (on sale) and $200 for the Marmot (on sale) and I don't think you can find a much better value.
art to linda
04-22-2004, 20:32
I have an allergy problem with down...what would be a good, light weight,20* bag that won't break my budget?
Moon Monster
04-22-2004, 20:58
I have an allergy problem with down...what would be a good, light weight,20* bag that won't break my budget?
Hi art to linda,
You probably should consider a synthetic material fill bag. I have no experience with synthetics and I bet many eyeing this thread don't either since it's about particular down bags.
Try posting this question as a brand new thread in the general gear forum to get a broader audience and source of opinions. Also try searching the archives of previous posts, but don't limit your reading to just reviews of synthetic bags. If a particular manufacturer's down bag is well liked, chances are good that their synthetic bags (if they make them) will also be of good repute.
art to linda
04-22-2004, 21:49
Ok, I'll try doing that :)
Blue Jay
04-23-2004, 07:17
I have an allergy problem with down...what would be a good, light weight,20* bag that won't break my budget?
EMS sells a very good, very light weight synthetic bag with an almost water proof coating. I have one but I cannot remember the name, but it is not too expensive. It's a little cold at 20F, I'd say it is a 25F.
alalskaman
04-24-2004, 04:13
I've been using the subkilo long for a couple of years now. No complaints as to quality, no feather leakage, tears, anything like that. The cut is not generous in the torso area, but in mild weather I just use it as a quilt anyhow. Many have suggested the rating is optimistic. I don't know - when I bought it I had it side by side with a marmot arroyo, the the subkilo was a lot loftier. So if the Arroyo is a 30 degree bag, the subkilo is warmer. I am a cold sleeper and formerly used a winter bag year round, the sk is my first lightweight bag. I was not ready to trust it at 20, so a few weeks ago I deliberately waited for a 20 night, then slept in the bag - in an unheated shed, with a warm pad. I wore heavy capilene bottoms, lite top with a light sweater, p-solar balaclava and fleece hat. My reasoning was that I would have this stuff and wear it on a fall or winter trip. Using it as a quilt, was warm except if I turned over, too many drafts, too long to warm back up. Zipped up, very toasty, but the slim cut works against layering, if I moved my elbows out a bit, filling would get thin. But basically, it was fine, and in that sense can be said to be a 20 degree bag. And it does have about 5" loft when its been out of the sack and fluffed up for a while. I would like to compare it with a Western Mountaineering Ultralite or Megalite, none of my local stores have any right now. Mine, a long weighs 2 lb 5 oz in its rei stuffsack, a sylnylon sack would be better. So I do not think one would go wrong with this bag, you could spend more money, get lighter ones, like the Hydrogen or Helium, or ones with more solid 20 ratings - but all in all I've been happy with this one. Bill
baseballswthrt
05-08-2004, 20:21
I have an REI Sub Kilo and I love it! It packs small and light. I have the short version since I am not very tall. When it is cold out I use a Thermo-lite liner with it and it makes a difference, but I am a cold sleeper. My only complaint is the small girth thru the torso...I have to arrange my arms carefully or wake up with my arms cramped!:)