View Full Version : Need advice on cooking systems.
Brooks2009
05-16-2008, 02:36
First off thanks once again to all who have given their two cents on my previous gear questions. In the last month or so I have gone from completely ungeared to purchasing nearly all of the backpacking cornerstones based upon your suggestions and my research. This is what I have so far, in order of what I bought first:
Boots: Vasque Breeze GTX ---------------(2 lb, 10 oz)
Tent: Big Agnes Seedhouse SL2 ---------(3 lb, 6 oz... for a 2 person tent, oww!)
Pack: Osprey Aether 70 -------------------(4 lb, 9 oz)
Bag: Big Agnes Lost Ranger 15 degree --(2 lb, 12 oz)
Pad: Thermarest ProLite4 -----------------(1 lb, 8 oz)
Cooking System: ????????
Word on the street is Jetboil is where its at. The Jetboil Personal Cooking System looks pretty legit from what I can tell, though I've never used something like this before. Any others I should consider? Pro's/Con's of Jetboil? Thanks for the help.
sofaking
05-16-2008, 09:05
your boot weight doesn't matter in terms of your carry weight, although some here may want to differ. a lot of folks use the jet-boil, a lot of folks that are seriously concerned with weight use alcohol stoves. be warned, these people are fanatics, but they know their stuff. check out the homemade gear forum, don't be scared.
Two Speed
05-16-2008, 09:21
Speaking as an alky fanatic I'd offer the opinion that the JetBoil's heavy, but fast, kinda like a backpacker's microwave. If ya really feel the need for speed the JetBoil's where it's at. If you're the kind that can multi-task, attend to minor camp chores while keeping an eye on a alky stove the speed advantage of the JetBoil isn't really all that much of an advantage IMHO.
Suggestion: before laying out the bucks for a JetBoil build a few alky stoves and try 'em out. If you find an alky stove that meets your needs you just saved some bucks that you can use to upgrade another part of your hiking gear.
I use both an alcohol stove and a MSR Pocket Rocket depending on the trip. For short trips (weekend or so), the alcohol stove is my fav. I can cook for two days on about 2.5 oz of fuel, and the stove I use is just an empty tealight candle tin. I have tried the pepsi can stoves, some wick stoves and the 'supercat.' The tealight is just as efficient, much easier to use and easy to put out as well.
For longer hikes, it is worth it for me to carry the canister stove and a canister. It takes up more room, but when I carry my larger pack it's not too big of a deal. It is less hassle, overall.
Before you guy buy a stove I would recommend just finding a tea light tin or something like it, pour some denatured alcohol or yellow heet in there and give it a try. All the other fancy do-dads didn't do anythign different than a basic tealight stove does.
I'd love to use a wood stove but the size isn't ideal and the smutting of the pots isn't something I like.
Shameless plug for an article I wrote about stoves:
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=20055&highlight=stoves+mags
a lot depends on how you plan to prepare your food. If you are eating dehydrated food from a freezer bag, all you have to do is boil water, anything will do. I mostly use a cannister stove, similar to the 'pocket rocket. I can't remember the brand, bought it used online.
Suggestion: before laying out the bucks for a JetBoil build a few alky stoves and try 'em out. If you find an alky stove that meets your needs you just saved some bucks that you can use to upgrade another part of your hiking gear.
i was literally moments away from buying a canister stove when i got this same piece of advice. i'm very pleased w/ my homemade alcohol stove and am glad i didn't waste the money on the canister :D
i was literally moments away from buying a canister stove when i got this same piece of advice. i'm very pleased w/ my homemade alcohol stove and am glad i didn't waste the money on the canister :D
That's a good point. I think I paid more for my canister stove than this entire cook system:
My alcohol cook kit consists of:
- REI Non Stick .9 liter titanium pot
- REI Folding cup/bowl (doesn't get much use, but good for mixing sauce and what not)
- Tea light stove
- Hardware cloth pot stand
- Box of matches
- Aluminum foil wind screen
- 2 cut down Wendy's Spork
- 2 regular bandanas for napkins
That all fits inside the pot and then gets put into the stuff sack that comes with the pot. I keep my fuel in a 4oz bottle outside my pack.
Farr Away
05-16-2008, 11:39
When I first got into backpacking, the tab for the gear was adding up awfully fast. I was very happy to come across the idea and plans for an alcohol stove. I figured at least that would let me put off buying a stove too right then. Three years later, I'm still using that alcohol stove; it does what I need it to.
Two Speed
05-16-2008, 13:12
i was literally moments away from buying a canister stove when i got this same piece of advice. i'm very pleased w/ my homemade alcohol stove and am glad i didn't waste the money on the canister :DGood that you saw the light, but if a particular hiker purchases and uses a cannister stove it isn't a waste for that individual. They just decided to use a different system.
However, it's always good tactics to explore the low cost option first. ;)
All stoves and types of fuel work ok, it’s more about what you like and are willing to deal with.
SGT Rock
05-16-2008, 13:50
Yep, get a cheap pot and make an alcohol stove to start with. You can always trade up later if you want, but if you are satisfied you save money to spend on something else.
peakbagger
05-16-2008, 14:01
A very important thing to do up front before the trip is practice on a few meals cooking with alcohol before you start hiking. The learning curve tends to be steeper with alcohol than with a cannister stove as you need to figure out how much fuel to heat up up enough water to preapre the meal without the stove running out or the pot boiling over. I used to hike with someone who switched to alcohol while I kept a pocket rocket with a homemade windscreen. After awhile, it became obvious that each one had its advantages and disadvantages. The MSR was real handy for long simmering and heating large amounts of water, the alcohol stove weighed less. My friend tended to gravitate to simpler meals.
Knowing what I know now, which isn't a lot compared to others around here, about stoves and having used both an MSR Pocket Rocket and a Caldera Cone alcohol stove system, my Cone wins hands down. I bought my Caldera Cone from AntiGravity Gear and absolutely love it! To increase its efficacy, cut a double sheet of aluminum foil as big as the base of the cone and put it on the ground under the cone. This will reflect more hear back up to the pot and reduce cook/boil times. As long as all you need to do is heat/boil water, the Caldera Cone is great. It's the Jetboil of the alky stove crowd, I read one person as being quoted. They're right. :D
JayMosier
05-16-2008, 14:16
I once made a stove with a tuna fish can, a HI-C can cardboard and wax. Roll the cardboard up and place it in the tuna can, the top of the cardboard must be flush with the top of the can. Then fill the can with melted wax (parafin, dont use any perfumed wax)
Remove one end (call it the bottom end0 of the HI-C can and cut a hole bout the size of dime every quarter around the top end, the holes must be just below the top end not in the top itself.
to use, light the wax in the tuna can and place the HI-C can over it
bigcranky
05-16-2008, 16:26
The Jetboil is certainly "legit," if that's a concern. It's a complete system - stove, pot, wind screen, lid, cozy. It's kind of expensive for what you get, in my opinion, but it certainly works well enough. Lots of hikers like the system. Canister stoves are very fast, very convenient, and easy to use.
Note that buying into a canister stove means buying into a never-ending stream of fossil-fuel canisters. Canister fuel is pretty expensive per boil.
You might try an alcohol stove to start and see if you like it. Alky stoves are cheap (free if you make your own), light, and easy to use, but they take a long time to heat water.
Appalachian Tater
05-16-2008, 16:32
If you bear bag your jetboil and it falls it will dent and the ignition will screw up. If you use a SuperCat you just undent it (or not) and keep on going. And yes, as bigcranky points out, a SuperCat or pop can stove is much more environmentally-friendly upfront and over the long-haul.
hopefulhiker
05-16-2008, 18:58
I pondered on the stove question a lot... Before my hike the choice was between the jetboil and the MSR pocket rocket with titan kettle... In Damascus I dropped the Jetboil and used an alcohol stove made by Sgt Rock for the rest of the trip. From experience, if I were to do it all over again I would start out with the alcohol stove and titan kettle.. It saved a significant amount of weight.
You can use the yellow bottle of HEET for fuel at service stations.. There are a lot threads on this on Whiteblaze...
Bare Bear
05-20-2008, 13:30
I have three stoves in my Spare Hiker Crap Box.
I use my homemade denatured alcohol stove nearly always. I have yogied a cup or two of hot water when someone was already heating with their fancy expensive stove.........they are nice but Weight Is Everything, Everthing Is Weight.
Blissful
05-20-2008, 13:58
I like the pocket rocket, Snow peak canister (works better than MSR) and Snowpeak cookset. Used it throughout my hike.
Cons to the alcohol stove (IMO). I thought the alcohol stove made my Ramen taste weird. I dislike that I can't control the flame limiting what you can do cooking wise, it can make burn marks on picnic tables and shelter floors if it flares up or if it doesn't flare up you can hardly see the flame.
Another nod to the Caldera Cone. It's light, quiet & plenty quick for dehy meals.
Squeamish
05-20-2008, 18:02
I will be ordering a Snow Peak Giga Power Piezo and a GSI Soloist cooking set. I all together weighs less thatn 3/4lb. A lot less than a Jrtboil. Oh, here is an effiency chart on the various stoves.
Brand
Stove
---------
Weight
Boil Time (1 liter)
Burn Time (on brand’s fuel)
Efficiency (min/fuel in grams) (fuel/min)*
Snow Peak
Giga Power Auto Ignition
3 oz
3 min 15 sec
45 min (110g)
0.41 (2.4)*
Jet Boil
PCS
15 oz
3 min 30 sec
197 min (100g)
0.89 (1.2)*
Snow Peak
Micro Max
3 oz
3 min 40 sec
22 min (110g)
0.2 (5)*
MSR
Pocket Rocket
3 oz
3 min 30 sec
60 min (228g)
0.27 (3.8)*
MSR
Super Fly
4.6 oz
3 min
90 min (228g)
0.4 (2.5)*
MSR
Reactor
20 oz
3 min
77 min (228g)
0.34 (2.9)*
*** For efficiency, min/fuel, lower is better. Fuel/min, less is better.
*** Brand fuel weight in g:
MSR – 228g
Snow Peak – 110g
tomsawyer222
05-20-2008, 18:51
Dont count out a good wood stove they work well in all conditions and free fuel is always good. Also just as durable as an alky stove. But really you need to find out what kind of food you want to eat on the trail cause just ramen and liptons will get boring..... so if you get an alky stove then be prepared to have a limited menu!
Dont count out a good wood stove they work well in all conditions and free fuel is always good. Also just as durable as an alky stove. But really you need to find out what kind of food you want to eat on the trail cause just ramen and liptons will get boring..... so if you get an alky stove then be prepared to have a limited menu!
I cook quite a bit over a 'wood stove' but I don't pack anything for it. Build a small fire and use three rocks around the fire to create a pot base. Place the pot directly over the fire and keep feeding sticks in as needed. It doesn't burn as hot as a wood stove but it also doesn't weigh anything to pack in/out.
Obviously you need to be mindful of heating the rocks and where you build your fire, but this is a very simple way to make some food.
take-a-knee
05-21-2008, 15:22
I cook quite a bit over a 'wood stove' but I don't pack anything for it. Build a small fire and use three rocks around the fire to create a pot base. Place the pot directly over the fire and keep feeding sticks in as needed. It doesn't burn as hot as a wood stove but it also doesn't weigh anything to pack in/out.
Obviously you need to be mindful of heating the rocks and where you build your fire, but this is a very simple way to make some food.
If you are a woodburner, try a Bushbuddy. If you try one, you'll be hooked.
flemdawg1
05-21-2008, 15:41
How is a Bushbuddy better than the Nimblewill Nomad stove?
Made your ramen taste strange? Your not supposed to cook WITH the alcohol, you are supposed to burn it to heat the water :)
take-a-knee
05-22-2008, 15:49
How is a Bushbuddy better than the Nimblewill Nomad stove?
I've only used a Bushbuddy so I wouldn't know? What does the Nomad weigh and is it stainless? The Bushbuddy burns so hot there is nothing but white ash left inside of it, no carbon at all, it is amazing.
Not sure how close you are to a decent size outfitter or college, but you may want to look into renting a couple different types of stoves and seeing what you prefer.
Long time lurker... first time poster. :)
Skidsteer
05-22-2008, 18:18
I've only used a Bushbuddy so I wouldn't know? What does the Nomad weigh and is it stainless? The Bushbuddy burns so hot there is nothing but white ash left inside of it, no carbon at all, it is amazing.
It can be if you make it from stainless steel.
Here are the plans:
http://www.nimblewillnomad.com/stove.htm
take-a-knee
05-22-2008, 18:55
It can be if you make it from stainless steel.
Here are the plans:
http://www.nimblewillnomad.com/stove.htm
Thanks Skids, that nimblewill would work fine, it just wouldn't work as well as a Bushbuddy, it would be a lot lighter on the wallet. I traded for my Bushbuddy, I never would have coughed up the cash never having used one, I'd replace the one I have now in a heartbeat if I had to.
Skidsteer
05-22-2008, 18:57
Thanks Skids, that nimblewill would work fine, it just wouldn't work as well as a Bushbuddy, it would be a lot lighter on the wallet. I traded for my Bushbuddy, I never would have coughed up the cash never having used one, I'd replace the one I have now in a heartbeat if I had to.
We need to go hiking. I would like to see one in action.
take-a-knee
05-22-2008, 19:09
We need to go hiking. I would like to see one in action.
I promise we'll make that happen. That Bushbuddy's only downside I can see is you have to constantly tend it, you can't just set it up and do camp chores for ten minutes like an alcohol stove.
Farr Away
05-22-2008, 22:28
I once made a stove with a tuna fish can, a HI-C can cardboard and wax. Roll the cardboard up and place it in the tuna can, the top of the cardboard must be flush with the top of the can. Then fill the can with melted wax (parafin, dont use any perfumed wax)
Remove one end (call it the bottom end0 of the HI-C can and cut a hole bout the size of dime every quarter around the top end, the holes must be just below the top end not in the top itself.
to use, light the wax in the tuna can and place the HI-C can over it
Minus the hi-c can part, you've just described a(n old) girl scout stove - the buddy burner. It was in the handbook and everything. We cooked on an empty 3 lb coffee can that we upended over the burner. It was _incredibly_ hot, almost impossible to cook anything on it without burning it.
It hasn't been in the GS handbooks in quite a while. It's probably considered too dangerous now. :(
My current set up is either a GSI Soloist or Dualist and my many years old Primus canister stove. Never fails and works like a mule.
If I want to go light I take a White Box stove and a tea kettle (either my Primus or Gsi one)
Beyond that I carry:
Long handled Rehydrate spoon
lighter
bag of paper towels
cozy
GSI pepper mill
windscreen
And that is it!
River Runner
06-05-2008, 00:00
I like this little stove (http://www.freezerbagcooking.com/stovescookinggear.htm#186883371) from your website Sarbar. My 'kitchen' now consists of it, a pot made from a Foster's beer can, a cut down aluminum windscreen from Anti-Gravity Gear, a lighter, pack of matches, a little square cut from a Handi Wipe, and a small GSI Lexan spoon.
I need to weigh the whole shebang - I am sure it is under 4 oz, probably under 3.