PDA

View Full Version : Can't decide (software, maps, GPS...)



rafe
05-17-2008, 10:46
I'm planning 100 miles or so on a remote section of the PCT for which nice, printed hiker-friendly maps are rare or non-existent. The maps in the Schaffer guide are barely adequate, IMO.

I've never owned or used a GPS. I have owned and used two versions of Delorme's Topo USA -- but I don't have the data set for western USA. If I did, I think I'd just print out the maps I need (probably on standard letter-sized sheets) and be done with it.

Delorme has a sale going on now with an Earthmate 20 GPS, bundled with Topo USA, for $300 (after rebate.) Without the GPS, Topo USA, Version 7 is $100. What should I do?

I just can't imagine how one makes use of that tiny LCD screen for navigation. I have no experience using GPS on the trail (or anywhere else, really.) Seems alien, somehow. Am I being a dumb Luddite? Should I take the plunge into electronic navigation?

sofaking
05-17-2008, 10:59
can you find u.s.g.s or b.l.m. maps for it?

OregonHiker
05-17-2008, 11:02
I'm planning 100 miles or so on a remote section of the PCT for which nice, printed hiker-friendly maps are rare or non-existent. The maps in the Shaeffer guide are barely adequate, IMO.

I've never owned or used a GPS. I have owned and used two versions of Delorme's Topo USA -- but I don't have the data set for western USA. If I did, I think I'd just print out the maps I need (probably on standard letter-sized sheets) and be done with it.

Delorme has a sale going on now with an Earthmate 20 GPS, bundled with Topo USA, for $300 (after rebate.) Without the GPS, Topo USA, Version 7 is $100. What should I do?

I just can't imagine how one makes use of that tiny LCD screen for navigation. I have no experience using GPS on the trail (or anywhere else, really.) Seems alien, somehow. Am I being a dumb Luddite? Should I take the plunge into electronic navigation?

For free downloadable USGS topo maps go to jdmcox.com and download the usapotomaps program. You can print them out (turn utm grid on). you should know how to use a compass wheter aor not you bring a gps.

rafe
05-17-2008, 12:11
can you find u.s.g.s or b.l.m. maps for it?

I presume it comes with complete maps for the entire USA at that price -- it's bundled with the Topo USA map set, and (if I'm not mistaken) -- a means of transferring those maps to the GPS.

mudhead
05-17-2008, 12:20
Sounds like you want to justify a new toy purchase to the other half.

Why not make yourself happy. You know you want both.

rafe
05-17-2008, 12:25
Sounds like you want to justify a new toy purchase to the other half.

Why not make yourself happy. You know you want both.

You are evil. :cool: I dunno, as it stands right now I spend half my life playing with electronic toys. The clouds have cleared, it's sunny out, and I'm sittin' here composing a post on Whiteblaze.

Wise Old Owl
05-17-2008, 12:48
Yes the topo bundle is great but don't expect the trail to be in there. Generally when purchasing these products they can only show where you have been, and graphically represent the puds. I had to import the trail from another source.

rafe
05-17-2008, 12:58
Yes the topo bundle is great but don't expect the trail to be in there. Generally when purchasing these products they can only show where you have been, and graphically represent the puds. I had to import the trail from another source.

I know for a fact that the AT is clearly marked on the TopoUSA maps. I've done many entertaining "flyovers."

I also know that the PCT is clearly marked on the maps in the DeLorme Atlas and Gazetteer for California. But the scale of those (printed) maps is a piddly 1:200,000 -- about 0.3 inches per mile.

I can't vouch for how precisely they've laid that red dotted line, however. It seems to be "mostly" correct but I'm not sure how DeLorme could keep up with every possible relocation. This could be even more of an issue with the PCT.

A-Train
05-17-2008, 13:18
I hiked with a partner on the PCT thru 1700 miles of California and 90% of the time, he carried the maps, I didn't. We hiked together about 50%of the time and I never really felt a need for the maps. I picked them up for Oregon and Washington and enjoyed having the options and looking at routes, but again, I probably could have gotten by without them.

I'll never tell anyone to not use maps, especially out West. My point is, the guidebook maps are adequate. If you want the fancy maps, just get them. They'd be essentially for fun for someone who enjoys maps, not for your livelihood.

OregonHiker
05-17-2008, 13:20
I know for a fact that the AT is clearly marked on the TopoUSA maps. I've done many entertaining "flyovers."

I also know that the PCT is clearly marked on the maps in the DeLorme Atlas and Gazetteer for California. But the scale of those (printed) maps is a piddly 1:200,000 -- about 0.3 inches per mile.

I can't vouch for how precisely they've laid that red dotted line, however. It seems to be "mostly" correct but I'm not sure how DeLorme could keep up with every possible relocation. This could be even more of an issue with the PCT.

In my opinion a GPS for hiking is a toy 99% of the time

rafe
05-17-2008, 15:24
How's the blazing on the PCT? I mean, compared to the AT? I admit that, on a routine day, maps on the AT aren't a strict necessity -- and that the path is fairly obvious. What's the PCT like, in that regard? (Barring snow cover...)

A-Train
05-17-2008, 15:51
How's the blazing on the PCT? I mean, compared to the AT? I admit that, on a routine day, maps on the AT aren't a strict necessity -- and that the path is fairly obvious. What's the PCT like, in that regard? (Barring snow cover...)

Well, it's not marked continously like the AT is, but it's almost always obvious. There are usually signs at trail junctions, though maps can come in handy there. Generally the PCT is a very obvious 2-3 foot wide path like the AT is. This section contains a lot of ridgewalking and contouring, so I don't think there were many trail junctions.

Bare Bear
05-17-2008, 16:24
Having hiked just under 1000 miles of the PCT I do not think you need a GPS. I never even used maps and only got lost down near Julian which was due to the fires more than my incompetence. The PCT is generally much easier to follow as it is in desert, above tree line, etc. It isn't like AT where it gets overgrown at times. (or GOD forbid the Florida Trail where it disappears in weeks due to the growthe---God Bless trail maintainers.)

OregonHiker
05-17-2008, 16:35
I'm planning 100 miles or so on a remote section of the PCT for which nice, printed hiker-friendly maps are rare or non-existent. The maps in the Schaffer guide are barely adequate, IMO.

I've never owned or used a GPS. I have owned and used two versions of Delorme's Topo USA -- but I don't have the data set for western USA. If I did, I think I'd just print out the maps I need (probably on standard letter-sized sheets) and be done with it.

Delorme has a sale going on now with an Earthmate 20 GPS, bundled with Topo USA, for $300 (after rebate.) Without the GPS, Topo USA, Version 7 is $100. What should I do?

I just can't imagine how one makes use of that tiny LCD screen for navigation. I have no experience using GPS on the trail (or anywhere else, really.) Seems alien, somehow. Am I being a dumb Luddite? Should I take the plunge into electronic navigation?


Not sure when you are going to be hiking or where, but be aware that snowpacks are very heavy this year. In the Three Sisters Oregon area about 200% of average. Of course with a few more days of 90 degree plus weather we could be back in a drought.

Anyway hope you enjoy your trip

SweetAss03
05-17-2008, 16:47
A-Train, as is the norm, is right on. I too wouldn't tell someone not to carry maps, I do about 50/50. For the PCT, yeah I would. I've done most of Washington and while for the most part it is well marked or obvious (nothing like the A.T.) There are times when it is iffy. Some Jct. are not well marked and you guess it is the most traveled trail (I've always had good luck and not guessed wrong) I've hiked 3-4 miles without seeing a PCT Marker and thought oh boy I might be on the wrong trail.

As with Oregon Hiker...Washington Snow packs are very high. The weather today and for the rest of the week is in the 90's so we will have some high water and snow melt.

Let me know if you are in Washington and need something.

SweetAss

rafe
05-17-2008, 16:47
Not sure when you are going to be hiking or where, but be aware that snowpacks are very heavy this year. In the Three Sisters Oregon area about 200% of average. Of course with a few more days of 90 degree plus weather we could be back in a drought.

Anyway hope you enjoy your trip

Thanks. The hike's in early August, I presume the snow (in northern CA) will be gone by then. Maybe the top of Shasta will still have snow... I'm not planning to walk in snow...

OregonHiker
05-17-2008, 16:57
Thanks. The hike's in early August, I presume the snow (in northern CA) will be gone by then. Maybe the top of Shasta will still have snow... I'm not planning to walk in snow...

You never know. We've lost the train in early july due to heavy snow. Will be out in late August

fiddlehead
05-17-2008, 21:14
You'll most likely hit some snow as it's been a heavy snow year.
The guidebook maps are ok. The guidebook lists elevations for most turns so, here's what i did as i like to walk stoned: set my altimeter alarm on my watch for aprox 200 feet before the turn i must make and then you don't have any worries until the alarm goes off. You must set your altitude everyday though. (to make it as accurate as possible)

I disagree that the GPS is a toy. When hiking in all snow in a whiteout, snowstorm, fog, heavy rain, etc. it is invaluable.
Sounds like you are ready to start exploring the GPS's abilities.
Have fun.

OregonHiker
05-17-2008, 21:17
You'll most likely hit some snow as it's been a heavy snow year.
The guidebook maps are ok. The guidebook lists elevations for most turns so, here's what i did as i like to walk stoned: set my altimeter alarm on my watch for aprox 200 feet before the turn i must make and then you don't have any worries until the alarm goes off. You must set your altitude everyday though. (to make it as accurate as possible)

I disagree that the GPS is a toy. When hiking in all snow in a whiteout, snowstorm, fog, heavy rain, etc. it is invaluable.
Sounds like you are ready to start exploring the GPS's abilities.
Have fun.

I said that a GPS is a toy 99% of the time. Same as hiking "stoned" is safe 99% of the time

take-a-knee
05-17-2008, 21:41
You'll most likely hit some snow as it's been a heavy snow year.
The guidebook maps are ok. The guidebook lists elevations for most turns so, here's what i did as i like to walk stoned: set my altimeter alarm on my watch for aprox 200 feet before the turn i must make and then you don't have any worries until the alarm goes off. You must set your altitude everyday though. (to make it as accurate as possible)

I disagree that the GPS is a toy. When hiking in all snow in a whiteout, snowstorm, fog, heavy rain, etc. it is invaluable.
Sounds like you are ready to start exploring the GPS's abilities.
Have fun.

I agree, a gps is anything but a toy. It is an extremely useful tool, as long as you have a map, compass, and sound map reading skills. It is the ultimate backup when you can't place yourself on the mapsheet. Andrew Skurka did the Great Western Loop with that smallest wrist mount Garmin. That would be my pick. I believe Delorme's latest software covers the entire CONUS but I don't know anything about it. If you buy software, make sure you can superimpose UTM grids on your mapsheets. They make using a GPS very easy.

OregonHiker
05-17-2008, 22:02
I agree, a gps is anything but a toy. It is an extremely useful tool, as long as you have a map, compass, and sound map reading skills. It is the ultimate backup when you can't place yourself on the mapsheet. Andrew Skurka did the Great Western Loop with that smallest wrist mount Garmin. That would be my pick. I believe Delorme's latest software covers the entire CONUS but I don't know anything about it. If you buy software, make sure you can superimpose UTM grids on your mapsheets. They make using a GPS very easy.

Lewis and Clark went from S. Louis to Astoria. OR and back without a GPS nor reliable maps. :cool:

Tin Man
05-17-2008, 22:24
Lewis and Clark went from S. Louis to Astoria. OR and back without a GPS nor reliable maps. :cool:

Perhaps because Garmin and Magellan (the company) weren't around yet. :cool:

I have a handheld GPS and it made life easier finding a shelter after dark. The shelter was full, so we tented. Then we said, w.t.f., why was it so important that we find the shelter, but I digress. GPS devices are good to confirm where you are and where you are going, but I always depend on dead reckoning 'cause, well, you know what they say.

OregonHiker
05-17-2008, 22:30
Perhaps because Garmin and Magellan (the company) weren't around yet. :cool:

I have a handheld GPS and it made life easier finding a shelter after dark. The shelter was full, so we tented. Then we said, w.t.f., why was it so important that we find the shelter, but I digress. GPS devices are good to confirm where you are and where you are going, but I always depend on dead reckoning 'cause, well, you know what they say.

1% of the time...thanks for confirming :cool:

Tin Man
05-17-2008, 22:39
Confirmation is definitely a good thing. It helps to keep you from getting lost. I wonder how many times Lewis and Clark got lost. Oh, wait, they were lost pretty much from the beginning, me thinks. :-?

So, if it is 1% useful, does that mean it shouldn't be more than 1% of your pack weight? :)

OregonHiker
05-17-2008, 22:51
Confirmation is definitely a good thing. It helps to keep you from getting lost. I wonder how many times Lewis and Clark got lost. Oh, wait, they were lost pretty much from the beginning, me thinks. :-?

So, if it is 1% useful, does that mean it shouldn't be more than 1% of your pack weight? :)

Actually Lewis and Clark travelled several thousand miles using dead reckoning and were only about 40 miles off in their final position.

I've never said GPS wasn't useful, only that most of the time it could be shut off and stowed in your pack.

As far as Terrapins intended use. That was to have vector maps loaded and to follow the screen on the trail. In my opinion that takes away the fun of looking at the big topo picture. On the PCT and CDT it is quite possible to see beyond the tree canopy and recognize distant topographic features

Apples and Oranges.

Your example was using the GPS to locate discrete points, Be honest, have you ever been "lost" on the AT or didn't have an exact fix for an hour or two. There is a big difference.

To be honest I don't reaaly care what you do, I was only offering an opinion.

If you want to debate, join the maps vs. no maps folks

Yours in Scouting,
Not Trying to Fight but to give the big picture,
YMMV

OH

take-a-knee
05-17-2008, 22:59
Actually Lewis and Clark travelled several thousand miles using dead reckoning and were only about 40 miles off in their final position.

I've never said GPS wasn't useful, only that most of the time it could be shut off and stowed in your pack.

As far as Terrapins intended use. That was to have vector maps loaded and to follow the screen on the trail. In my opinion that takes away the fun of looking at the big topo picture. On the PCT and CDT it is quite possible to see beyond the tree canopy and recognize distant topographic features

Apples and Oranges.

Your example was using the GPS to locate discrete points, Be honest, have you ever been "lost" on the AT or didn't have an exact fix for an hour or two. There is a big difference.

To be honest I don't reaaly care what you do, I was only offering an opinion.

If you want to debate, join the maps vs. no maps folks

Yours in Scouting,
Not Trying to Fight but to give the big picture,
YMMV

OH

That is a good point, when you are in terrain with a lot of relief, and you can view it, if you are spatially oriented and have decent map reading skills it is hard to get lost.

Tin Man
05-17-2008, 22:59
OH, Easy fella. I wasn't disagreeing with ya. :cool:

My Lewis & Clark being lost reference was just that they were seeking the Northwest Passage. I think they found it doesn't exist, but then it has been awhile since I studied that particular hike.

Tin Man
05-17-2008, 23:03
Your example was using the GPS to locate discrete points, Be honest, have you ever been "lost" on the AT or didn't have an exact fix for an hour or two. There is a big difference.

Actually, I am very exacting in knowing where I am and I always carry a map. It's the road crossings that get me twisted on occassion. :)

Peace friend. :cool:

OregonHiker
05-17-2008, 23:13
Actually, I am very exacting in knowing where I am and I always carry a map. It's the road crossings that get me twisted on occassion. :)

Peace friend. :cool:

No problemo...it's all relative

Danile Bonne once said something to the effect of (I don't remember the exact quote)

"i've never been lost, but one time it tool me two weeks to figure out where I was).


PS I usually carry a GPS with paper topo maps just in case

Tin Man
05-17-2008, 23:16
No problemo...it's all relative

Danile Bonne once said something to the effect of (I don't remember the exact quote)

"i've never been lost, but one time it tool me two weeks to figure out where I was).


PS I usually carry a GPS with paper topo maps just in case

Who's Danile Bonne? ;)

"I have never been lost, but I will admit to being confused for several weeks."
Daniel Boone (http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/d/danielboon142243.html)

Tin Man
05-17-2008, 23:19
An original "NO SNIVELING" kind of guy...


"I was happy in the midst of dangers and inconveniences."
Daniel Boone (http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/d/danielboon253634.html)


and I think he may have faced a few more "dangers and inconveniences" than today's AT hiker, after all he had no GPS. ;)

OregonHiker
05-17-2008, 23:39
Who's Danile Bonne? ;)

"I have never been lost, but I will admit to being confused for several weeks."
Daniel Boone (http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/d/danielboon142243.html)

Sorry for the spelling.

Actually I am a documented descendaent of DB :D

Tin Man
05-17-2008, 23:41
Sorry for the spelling.

Actually I am a documented descendaent of DB :D

I would have guessed Lewis & Clarke [:eek:], with the Oregon reference. ;)

OregonHiker
05-17-2008, 23:51
I would have guessed Lewis & Clarke [:eek:], with the Oregon reference. ;)

And I always liked the Scarecrow the best :sun

Tin Man
05-17-2008, 23:58
And I always liked the Scarecrow the best :sun

That ain't how I got my trail name.

OregonHiker
05-18-2008, 00:13
That ain't how I got my trail name.

I am afraid to ask

Tin Man
05-18-2008, 00:20
Since you didn't ask... ;)

I got a little nervous when I came across bear scat with a warning whistle in it. So, I started banging my empty "trail magic" soda can and I was dubbed Tin Man... figured it was better than Scat Man, so I kept it.