View Full Version : Trail Days and the Non Drinker
ChinMusic
05-20-2008, 15:48
I have yet to make it to Trail Days but plan on it for next year now that my son's college baseball career is over.
Can one fit in, have fun, at Trail Days without drinking alcohol?
Yes. There are plenty of people there who drink little or nothing. Trail Days is a huge gathering. People run the spectrum from saints to idiots. You can choose who to associate with.
......People run the spectrum from saints to idiots......That has got to be the best ever description of people, no matter where you go. :D
wornoutboots
05-20-2008, 16:20
I just returned and I am not a drinker. Had a great time but I would not suggest you camp at tent city, even the Quite Zone on Saturday night had "Loud" people running around at 3-4 in the morning.
Survivor Dave
05-20-2008, 16:22
Yes. There are plenty of people there who drink little or nothing. Trail Days is a huge gathering. People run the spectrum from saints to idiots. You can choose who to associate with.
I'd like to meet one of those alcoholic saints. :eek:;)
Frolicking Dinosaurs
05-20-2008, 16:40
It is quite possible not to drink at TD - I have done it several times. You will be offered beer, liquor and probably drugs. I've never had anyone get real forceful about my declining. The one guy that didn't want to take no for an answer left me alone when I told him I was a recovering alkie and that he didn't have enough booze to get the job done for me (one drink is too many and a thousand isn't enough :D)
As far as having fun - I'd advise foregoing the tent city unless you want to live in the middle of a weekend-long party. Personally, it is just too loud for me - the drum circle goes on until between 2 - 4 AM and there are people walking around talking and laughing until about 4 AM. It isn't my idea of a good time, but decide for yourself if that appeals to you.
Jason of the Woods
05-20-2008, 16:46
I hadn't had a drink in six months before I started my hike. Don't ask how much that I've drank since then and I'm not even gonna mention Trail Days.....
Footslogger
05-20-2008, 17:03
I have yet to make it to Trail Days but plan on it for next year now that my son's college baseball career is over.
Can one fit in, have fun, at Trail Days without drinking alcohol?
================================
Can't speak for the masses ...but I had a great time, as I always do, and never touched a drop. Suppose having had a heart attack a couple months ago had some influence on that but yeah ...you can take full advantage of Trail Days without being under the influence of alcohol. Plus waking up the next morning is a lot less painful.
'Slogger
ChinMusic
05-20-2008, 17:34
================================
Can't speak for the masses ...but I had a great time, as I always do, and never touched a drop. Suppose having had a heart attack a couple months ago had some influence on that but yeah ...you can take full advantage of Trail Days without being under the influence of alcohol. Plus waking up the next morning is a lot less painful.
'Slogger
Glad to hear that things are going well from that scare a few months ago.
I gather there are plenty of places to tent/stay other than Tent City.
D'Artagnan
05-20-2008, 18:11
I enjoyed a couple at Dot's but chose not to drink @ Tent City (I stayed elsewhere). Considering where I live, it was a novelty to be able to buy beer, drink it on-site, and walk from there back to your residence. Dang, that's the way it should be everywhere.
I had a great time in Damascus. Part of the fun of Tent City as a sober participant is watching people do and say things and act in ways they would never do with all their faculties about them. That's all I've got to say about that. ;)
Footslogger
05-20-2008, 18:40
Glad to hear that things are going well from that scare a few months ago.
I gather there are plenty of places to tent/stay other than Tent City.
==================================
Thanks ...me too !! Don't know about "plenty" but there are places other than the ghetto. To be totally honest, I don't to to Trail Days to hang out at tent city with the current year's hikers. I've been going to Trail Days since the mid 80's and the main draw for me is seeing old friends, most of which I do at the park or on Laurel Ave. The only year I spent considerable time out in the mud was the year I thru-hiked - 2003
'Slogger
Fannypack
05-20-2008, 18:47
================================
Can't speak for the masses ...but I had a great time, as I always do, and never touched a drop. Suppose having had a heart attack a couple months ago had some influence on that but yeah ...you can take full advantage of Trail Days without being under the influence of alcohol. Plus waking up the next morning is a lot less painful.
'Slogger
I second Slogger comments and i camped within 50 yds of the Billville campfire Sat nite and slept like a baby w/o a drop of alcohol. I enjoyed the campsite w/ a grp of 98ers.
I camped in Tent City this year, and last. I chose a hammock site away from the beaten path, back in the poison ivy. (This strategy might not work for everyone.) I slept just fine.
taildragger
05-20-2008, 19:02
I'd like to meet one of those alcoholic saints. :eek:;)
http://www.arnoldsat.com/starnold/SaintArnold.jpg
warren doyle
05-20-2008, 20:30
I have had enjoyable Trail Days every year (I've attended every one since the second one).
I don't need alcohol to have fun - just the scenery, swimming at Backbone Rock, contra dancing, eating a half gallon of ice cream in the parade, presenting programs, eating a late night meal with my family at Sicilys, and seeing/talking with friends who are also sober is more than enough fun.
Great Thread, I've contemplated going and bringing my 13 year old son.
What are the options other than stayng in tent city?? We want to hammock, but also want to be able to sleep without the surrounding party scene. But would like to be within walking distance.
I skipped this year, but may go next year.
It is quite possible not to drink at TD - I have done it several times. You will be offered beer, liquor and probably drugs. I've never had anyone get real forceful about my declining. The one guy that didn't want to take no for an answer left me alone when I told him I was a recovering alkie and that he didn't have enough booze to get the job done for me (one drink is too many and a thousand isn't enough :D)
As far as having fun - I'd advise foregoing the tent city unless you want to live in the middle of a weekend-long party. Personally, it is just too loud for me - the drum circle goes on until between 2 - 4 AM and there are people walking around talking and laughing until about 4 AM. It isn't my idea of a good time, but decide for yourself if that appeals to you.
FD. Your description is so eloquent and so enticing, I've put it in my book to attend next year -- for the first time. Please try to be there. I'm no longer great on boze. I carry my own. "Any port in a storm."
But basically, I'm with the King James verion on this issue. "A little (red) wine for thy stomach's sake."
Weary
theinfamousj
05-20-2008, 21:50
Mom's a recovering alkie and I brought her to Trail Days (her and my first) and we avoided Tent City to avoid the booze culture. Didn't drink a drop. Had a great time. Mom wants to come back.
Where else to tent? The Place's lawn. Lots of folks tenting all around The Place. Between the Trails was allowing tenting on their lawn for a donation to cover the cost of the rented port-a-potty.
camojack
05-20-2008, 21:52
FD. Your description is so eloquent and so enticing, I've put it in my book to attend next year -- for the first time. Please try to be there. I'm no longer great on booze. I carry my own. "Any port in a storm."
But basically, I'm with the King James verion on this issue. "A little (red) wine for thy stomach's sake."
I hope you do come next year; we don't agree a lot of the time, but I'd still like to meet you. :)
I hope you do come next year; we don't agree a lot of the time, but I'd still like to meet you. :)
We almost made it this year. My "favorite" grandson graduated from engineering school -- Worcester (Mass) Polytec -- on Saturday. We were sorely tempted to keep heading south and showing up Sunday morning.
Among other things, all my Thorlo socks are wearing out -- after 15 years -- my wife dreams of replacements.
But at the last minute we decided it would be better to get the grandson home and looking for a job. I haven't dared to do an accounting. But I think we have cosigned on his education loans for about 20 times what my house and land, originally cost.
Weary
camojack
05-20-2008, 22:24
We almost made it this year. My "favorite" grandson graduated from engineering school -- Worcester (Mass) Polytec -- on Saturday. We were sorely tempted to keep heading south and showing up Sunday morning.
Among other things, all my Thorlo socks are wearing out -- after 15 years -- my wife dreams of replacements.
But at the last minute we decided it would be better to get the grandson home and looking for a job. I haven't dared to do an accounting. But I think we have cosigned on his education loans for about 20 times what my house and land, originally cost.
Ah, priorities. They're good to have in order... :-?
D'Artagnan
05-21-2008, 10:39
Mom's a recovering alkie and I brought her to Trail Days (her and my first) and we avoided Tent City to avoid the booze culture. Didn't drink a drop. Had a great time. Mom wants to come back.
Where else to tent? The Place's lawn. Lots of folks tenting all around The Place. Between the Trails was allowing tenting on their lawn for a donation to cover the cost of the rented port-a-potty.
Not to veer too far from the topic, but I hope the folks who tented in The Place's lawn observed they too were encouraged to donate $4.00 per night just like those who slept under its roof.
RiceKrispy
05-21-2008, 11:02
I don't drink and managed to have a great time at Trail Days. I met a lot of interesting people, enjoyed the comraderie of fellow hikers, browsed the vendors, took in the concert (Rat did a great job on that guitar, didn't he?), hid behind a tree and watched the parade (yes, I admit it - I was avoiding the water guns and water balloons), and thoroughly enjoyed my first ever Trail Days. I did see a few kids running around, and considered bringing mine with me next year - though I will probably avoid Tent City if I do that). :D
Jack Tarlin
05-21-2008, 11:08
Some very good comments here. In the large group of friends I camped with, we had folks who drink a good deal, folks who drink socially, and more than a few folks who don't drink at all. Everyone got along, everyone had a good time. It is absolutely possible to have an enjoyable Trail Days weekend without drinking (or withour drinking to excess) and plenty of folks manage to do so.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
05-21-2008, 11:30
FD. Your description is so eloquent and so enticing, I've put it in my book to attend next year -- for the first time. Please try to be there. I'm no longer great on booze. I carry my own. "Any port in a storm."Weary, I will certainly try to be there as I would like to meet you as well.
D'Artagnan
05-21-2008, 12:11
Some very good comments here. In the large group of friends I camped with, we had folks who drink a good deal, folks who drink socially, and more than a few folks who don't drink at all. Everyone got along, everyone had a good time. It is absolutely possible to have an enjoyable Trail Days weekend without drinking (or withour drinking to excess) and plenty of folks manage to do so.
I was one of those who was in the group and didn't partake. I felt completely welcomed and look forward to spending more time in Billville in the future. Thanks for the hospitality (and the history lesson) Jack.
High Life
05-21-2008, 12:18
i think im banned from damasscus:(
Interesting discussion. Do you think we need to create a "Families with small children" campsite somewhere away from the regular campground? There are several places in town that might be available for that. Or should we just clear out an area further up the creek? Or leave things the way they are?
Blissful
05-21-2008, 13:29
Interesting discussion. Do you think we need to create a "Families with small children" campsite somewhere away from the regular campground? There are several places in town that might be available for that. Or should we just clear out an area further up the creek? Or leave things the way they are?
I think that's a great idea.
Also there are more and more teens too that are doing the trail. There needs to be some way to enforce the over 21 rule with liquor at the main campsite (Paul Bunyan has been offered liquor every time he has been there, from age 15 on).
Alligator
05-21-2008, 13:30
Interesting discussion. Do you think we need to create a "Families with small children" campsite somewhere away from the regular campground? There are several places in town that might be available for that. Or should we just clear out an area further up the creek? Or leave things the way they are?I ended up not staying overnight but in my original planning I was reluctant to attempt camping in the main campground because of a toddler. I thought it might be too noisy for the kids to get to sleep so I looked into alternatives. If it isn't too much trouble it is certainly a welcome idea.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
05-21-2008, 13:38
I would welcome a quieter campground away from the main campground. While putting it at the back of the campground is an option, many who will want to use it are the older hikers - the ones more likely to have mobility and bladder issues - and those with young children who need to be close to the potty (little bladders can't wait). Having a separate campground would solve the mobility and port-a-potty distance issues.
Backbone Rock Campground (http://www.forestcamping.com/dow/southern/chercmp.htm) would be ideal for families. There are only 11 sites, tent or RV, and also room for group camping. It's about two miles from the main Trail Days campground, and has flush toilets but no showers. A creek runs through the campground and is ideal for kids who can spend all day throwing rocks into the water.
http://www.mce.k12tn.net/johnson/features/backbone_rock.htm is a school-created website which has some more information.
hopefulhiker
05-21-2008, 20:51
I wanted to go this year, but family circumstances prevented it.. I have gone to three trail days and do not drink... I would try to get a spot at the Place or one of the hostels. I would avoid tent city because of the noise. It is worth going for the knowledge of the vendors, other hikers, the presentations, and the whole atmosphere is a lot of fun...
Jack Tarlin
05-22-2008, 10:45
Note to Local:
One interesting thing I noticed this year was that more Damascus residents were allowing folks to pitch on their front or back lawns. (Don't know if they all charged a fee for this or not). But it seems to me that if a porta-john was included, there are quite a few people who would take advantage of this opportunity, i.e. older folks, non-drinkers, people with families, etc. There are any nukber of people who'd prefer not to campin Tent City. Backbone Rock is lovely, but it's kinda small. If people knew well in advance about noise-free or alcohol-free campsites, or designated family/quiet campsites, I think they'd take advantage of them. This would benefit the folks who'd want this service and might make a few dollars for the host family. An alternative to Tent City for those who want it is a really good idea.
Something to kick around next year maybe?
gravityman
05-22-2008, 12:39
We have a toddler. We've been wanting to get to trail days for ages, but feel that without a kid-friendly camping area it would be rather difficult...
Gravity and Danger (and Granger) GAME2005
warren doyle
05-22-2008, 23:15
Once again, there are many places to camp within a fifteen minute drive of Damascus - Rt58 east; Rt. 133 south of Backbone Rock; Rt 91 towards Mountain City.
I can't understand why so many hikers feel that the fenced-in, entrance fee campground is the only choice.
Federal public lands paid by your taxes surround Damascus - utilize (and respect) them.
The New Wally
05-23-2008, 07:40
Not to veer too far from the topic, but I hope the folks who tented in The Place's lawn observed they too were encouraged to donate $4.00 per night just like those who slept under its roof.
The Place is a non-smoking/no alcohol hostel some hikers thought that it was a no-donation hostel. Everybody that left the Place right after Trail Days were lucky enought to escape the horde of invisible Girl Scouts that descended upon the Place. The Master Care Taker showed up early in the morning waking hikers up warning them of the dangerous invisible Girl Scouts. All the hikers escaped unharmed. The Place was filled with hikers later the next day. Nobody knows if the Scouts are still around.
Note to Local:
One interesting thing I noticed this year was that more Damascus residents were allowing folks to pitch on their front or back lawns. (Don't know if they all charged a fee for this or not). But it seems to me that if a porta-john was included, there are quite a few people who would take advantage of this opportunity, i.e. older folks, non-drinkers, people with families, etc. There are any nukber of people who'd prefer not to campin Tent City. Backbone Rock is lovely, but it's kinda small. If people knew well in advance about noise-free or alcohol-free campsites, or designated family/quiet campsites, I think they'd take advantage of them. This would benefit the folks who'd want this service and might make a few dollars for the host family. An alternative to Tent City for those who want it is a really good idea.
Something to kick around next year maybe?
Jack, it seems to be a good idea to compile a list of family-friendly camping areas. Between-the-Trails (Pam and Kyle) asked for donations and provided a port-a-john, and the Baptist showers were a block away. They had a limit of 30 tents. We can put together a list of similar facilities and post it on whiteblaze before next Trail Days. If I'm not on the committee I'll ask others to do this.
The Place is a non-smoking/no alcohol hostel some hikers thought that it was a no-donation hostel. Everybody that left the Place right after Trail Days were lucky enought to escape the horde of invisible Girl Scouts that descended upon the Place. The Master Care Taker showed up early in the morning waking hikers up warning them of the dangerous invisible Girl Scouts. All the hikers escaped unharmed. The Place was filled with hikers later the next day. Nobody knows if the Scouts are still around.
Pirate.... er, sorry, I mean New Wally, you are too weird. Are you at Mojoe's now? I'm on the way up there in a few minutes and will buy you your favorite double-light latte, easy on the froth, with a touch of vanilla. Who is working Mojoe's this a.m.?
StarLyte
05-23-2008, 10:08
Lots of Trail Days threads here; I've added more photos, if you'd like to view them, click here (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/browseimages.php?do=member&imageuser=271).
Pirate.... er, sorry, I mean New Wally, you are too weird.
So Pirate's new name is "The New Wally"? okay... why? If he wanted anonymity, he just lost it!
So Pirate's new name is "The New Wally"? okay... why? If he wanted anonymity, he just lost it!
Nah, most everybody in town who goes by Dave's Place at MRO knows who the "new wally" is. The real mystery is the true identity of this man called "Pirate." Is he a gentle giant with a great sense of humor who floats into town with the hiking season and adds to the richness of our lives here in Damascus? Or is he a former Navy Seal and government operative with a secret past of "unofficial" activities in foreign countries? Probably no one in town but Lone Wolf really knows, and he's not telling.
Bare Bear
05-24-2008, 07:56
I have gone to just three TD so far. (Not counting a day long in ancient times.) Once camped, too noisy for me. Once at the The Place, still real busy and noisy during TD, then rented a house about 3-4 miles out past the big grocery store. There are lots of private homes and non-drinking options if you take the time to get to know the fine folks at Damascus.
The New Wally
05-24-2008, 08:03
Boy Scouts join the search for the missing Girl Scouts that are susposed to be staying at the Place. AT hikers are not permitted to stay at the Place until further notice. Hostel manager has been running hikers off the property since Wednesday. If anybody sees any invisible Girl Scouts please let the Boy Scouts know so they can stop searching.
Nah, most everybody in town who goes by Dave's Place at MRO knows who the "new wally" is. The real mystery is the true identity of this man called "Pirate." Is he a gentle giant with a great sense of humor who floats into town with the hiking season and adds to the richness of our lives here in Damascus? Or is he a former Navy Seal and government operative with a secret past of "unofficial" activities in foreign countries? Probably no one in town but Lone Wolf really knows, and he's not telling.
I've seen him in the south in April, I've seen him in Damascus in May, I've seen him at Rusty's in June.... anywhere hikers are, he can be found sometime! As for his secret past, it is still his secret.
The New Wally
05-26-2008, 07:38
Hostel is open to AT Hikers, riders and bikers finally. Nobody has seen the invisible Girl Scouts, but a Rice Crispies Bar was found in Mojos. It is rumored that the Methodist Church is building a new building with the donations taking in at the Place Hostel during Trail Days, going to tear down the old existing Church to build a parking lot for all the hikers that are yellow blazing the trail. Baltimore Jack and two other hikers were caught drinking beer during church services last night at a local hostel. They did not know beer is not allowed. Cowboy had a cooler of sodas and a dozen of biscuits and candy bars ripped off by section hikers on top of White Top yesterday. The food and drinks was susposed to be for Thru Hikers. Everything was gone in under 5 minutes!!!! Believe it or not.
Jim Adams
05-26-2008, 08:31
I'd like to meet one of those alcoholic saints. :eek:;)
HI! MY NAME IS geek!:D
Marta, good description!
geek
warren doyle
05-26-2008, 11:43
Hostel is open to AT Hikers, riders and bikers finally. Nobody has seen the invisible Girl Scouts, but a Rice Crispies Bar was found in Mojos. It is rumored that the Methodist Church is building a new building with the donations taking in at the Place Hostel during Trail Days, going to tear down the old existing Church to build a parking lot for all the hikers that are yellow blazing the trail. Baltimore Jack and two other hikers were caught drinking beer during church services last night at a local hostel. They did not know beer is not allowed. Cowboy had a cooler of sodas and a dozen of biscuits and candy bars ripped off by section hikers on top of White Top yesterday. The food and drinks was susposed to be for Thru Hikers. Everything was gone in under 5 minutes!!!! Believe it or not.
Is this true? And if it is, can you please elaborate?
Jack Tarlin
05-26-2008, 12:15
Um, Warren, calm yourself. I know your heart positively leaped when you read Wally's post, but if you want "elaboration", here it is:
There were several hikers indeed drinking beer at Dave's Place Hostel in Damascus last night, where beer is actually permitted, tho the hiker caretaker (who happens to be my friend Pirate) politely informed us that if were going to stay on the porch, we needed to keep the drinks in Nalgenes or other bottles. And yup, one of these hikers was me.
That was the end of the incident.
Incidentally, Warren, we were not caught "during church services" as Dave's Place does not offer religious services.
Oh, I've halso heard that on one memorable occasion, Warren, you were caught red-handed going thru the window at this hostel in order to crash out on the sofa for free. This has been mentioned here before, and you never denied the incident so I can only assume it is true.
So which is worse......drinking beer at a place where beer is actually permitted.......or sneaking into a place in order to defraud it?
Needless to say, I don't expect this question to be answered. :D
warren doyle
05-26-2008, 12:19
Just another piece of garbage, piled higher and higher over the last six-seven years.
Where does he come with this stuff?
Jack Tarlin
05-26-2008, 12:21
Heard it from any number of people.
Maybe if you were held in higher regard, these stories wouldn't circulate. :rolleyes:
Jack Tarlin
05-26-2008, 12:24
Oh, and Warren, I should also add that if you hadn't come here to Whiteblaze countless times over the years to childishly boast about the places that you DID sneak into, or bars and gates that you DID sneak past, well, if you hadn't done this so brazenly and so often, well maybe people would be less likely to believe the oft-told story of Dave's place.
Buy you DO sneak into places without paying, Warren. We all know this. You've been quoted on this many times, so denying it or getting indignant about it is kinda difficult. In short, you brag of these things, gleefully, as tho it's cute and rebellious. But when other people bring it up, it's "garbage and scurillous nonsense.
Nope, it isn't. It's just sad.
warren doyle
05-26-2008, 12:31
"Oh, I've halso heard that on one memorable occasion, Warren, you were caught red-handed going thru the window at this hostel in order to crash out on the sofa for free. This has been mentioned here before, and you never denied the incident so I can only assume it is true.
So which is worse......drinking beer at a place where beer is actually permitted.......or sneaking into a place in order to defraud it?
Needless to say, I don't expect this question to be answered. :D"
I guess I will finally call your bluff.
You have a great ability to hear what you want too hear.
Prove it.
When? Where? Who?
I would like to think you would start with primary, credible sources such as the owners of MRO.
This is nothing but a vicious, mean-spirited lie.
Perhaps it is you who are a fraud. (Of course, I know the answer to this.)
Jack Tarlin
05-26-2008, 12:40
Think what you want to think, Warren.
I'm merely repeated what I've heard from others.
As to calling you out as a known defrauder and a thief, sir, well, this is based on what we've personally heard from YOU. Right on this website, and lots of times, too. In other words, nothing vicious or false about it. You've come here time and time again to give us the details on services not paid for, private fees and charges not paid by you, etc. You seem to revel in sharing this information as you've told us about it more times than I can count.
If people therefore continue to relate stories that portray you as a thief, sir, you can kindly find someone to blame other than me.
Calling my bluff?
Don't make me laugh. You've told us innumerable stories about how you get away witht things without paying for them......yet you shriek like a scalded cat when anyone else deigns to mention it.
Pitiful.
If you don't people to repeat stories about you in regards to this matter, Warren, then maybe you should think twice the next time you tell us how cool and rebellious it is to steal.
But if this is how you wish to portray yourself, sir, why on earth should anyone view you differently?
warren doyle
05-26-2008, 12:47
Bingo! For all the WB world to see.
I guess the specific question you recently posed to me has been answered.
Just multiply this answer dozens of times over the last seven years to get a more realistic picture of your mode of operation.
Case closed yet again.
Jack Tarlin
05-26-2008, 12:54
Case closed and bingo, my ass, Warren.
As recently as a few weeks ago, The Old Fhart provided all sorts of quotes detailing your activities. Not that this came as a surprise to anyone who's been here long.
You've come here repeatedly to crow about all the people you've ripped off over the years, Mr. Doyle. You've done this again and again. You've done it so often that website administration has asked you more than once to cut it out. In short, the details of your past activities can be easily found here on Whiteblaze......for all the world to see, if, of course, they didn't feel dirty having to examine a record so sordid and sad.
Yet when anyone else points this out, you act some innocent victim.
Um, nobody's buyin your sob story. Stop stealing, and stop whining. It's unseemly on all sorts of levels.
That's it, I'm going hiking for the rest of the day. Too nice an afternoon to spend debating clowns.
As to the "specific question" we're debating here, sir, i.e. whether or not you have a tawdry record of deception, fraud, and thievery, well, I don't need you to answer this today. You've answered this question for us many times already, and we didn't even have to pry it out of you.
The record clearly displays that you yourself volunteered this information.
See ya.
You are a riot Warren. :rolleyes: Jack has you wrapped. I have read all your boasts of getting away with things, which really amounts to theft of service. Why not come clean, admit it, and start acting like the person you are trying to portray yourself as? People are more forgiving to those that admit their wrong than those that live in denial. The choice is up to you.
Or, did I just make the internagator hall of fame? :D
This isn't the place for your arguments fellas, and you've been told this for some 5 years now atleast.
warren doyle
05-26-2008, 13:05
"That's it, I'm going hiking for the rest of the day."
Happy trails!
Jack Tarlin
05-26-2008, 15:37
A-Train: You're dead right. Nobody wanted this argument, and it wouldn't have existed at all til Warren jumped all over Wally's joke post about my alledgedly drinking during a church service. Warren was positively drooling over this fable ("Is this true? Can you elaborate?") :D
The guy was practically having it off in his shorts thinking I'd done something horrible or illegal so he could bring it up for the next millenia.......without realizing that Wally's story was a complete joke.
Poor Warren.
Unfortunately, his snapping at this chance to publicly criticize me over siomething that never happened provided folks with the opportunity to bring up the unfortunate story of his own public behavior over the years, which is a miserable one. A story we got from HIM, by the way.
So, sorry A-Train, but go back a few hours, and check out this thread. None of this unpleasantness would have happened if Warren hadn't leapt at the opportunity to make me look bad (See his post #48, above). All subsequent comments regarding hiker behavior (like theft) originated with this one post. What happpened today, A-Train, is that Warren jumped all over a pathetic attempt to make me look bad based on a spurious joke post by Wally. Unfortunately for Warren, in pursuing this red herring, we ended up discussing his own woeful behavior; his stab at making me look bad came back and bit him in the ass.
I neither wanted nor sought out this unfortunate dialogue.
Lesson learned: Be careful who you criticize, Warren, or all you're gonna do is give people a chance to retell stories about YOU, and these are stories nobody need doubt or question, as they were provided by Warren in the first place.
For heaven's sake, this is getting absurd. A guy comes here time and time again relating how he's defrauded or stolen from all sorts of people........and then he throttles himself with his own panties because people call him out on this?
Too ridiculous for words.
That's it, time to move on. There's REALLY nothing to see here.
First, let me say that I have respect for you both as hikers. But you both should be ashamed of yourself for the way you act of Whiteblaze! These ridiculous arguments make two intelligent men look like fools. Ease up on one another and call a truce for hiking's sake. You are grown men! (and the "he started it first" argument just doesn't fly)
Jack Tarlin
05-26-2008, 15:50
Um, Red Hat, read my last post. I neither wanted this dialogue nor welcomed it.
But if people post here with the direct intent of making personal attacks on me, sorry, but I'm going to respond.
Fannypack
05-26-2008, 16:11
Just for the record, during the TD2008 in Damascus I saw a sign on the porch of Dave's MRO hostel which says "No Alcohol permitted" (or something close to that). Actually Dave Patrick was there eating dinner on Friday nite & he pointed out this sign to all of us sitting around the porch.
Has anyone been hiking this afternoon?
Btw, I cannot believe that Virginia has not had a high humidity day yet this year. I guess we have just been lucky so far this year. I recall in 96 that the third week in May the temps were in the 90s in the SNP and the humidity was just as high.
Has anyone been hiking this afternoon?
Took a short stroll through the woods near home with my wife. (At her suggestion, in fact.) Discovering that these woods are riddled with little trails. Gorgeous weather in eastern MA today.
Has anyone been hiking this afternoon? Did an overnigher with a group from Hammock Forums (http://www.hammockforums.net) at Red River Gorge here in Kentucky on Saturday. Very nice, just what the nurse (me) ordered. :D
Jack Tarlin
05-26-2008, 16:34
I don't know the intent of your post, Fannypack, but just for the record, regardless of whatever signage you may have seen, responsible social drinking by adults is indeed permitted there, and takes place with the full knowledge of MRO employees. This is a non-issue.
saimyoji
05-26-2008, 16:37
I don't know the intent of your post, Fannypack, but just for the record, regardless of whatever signage you may have seen, responsible social drinking by adults is indeed permitted there, and takes place with the full knowledge of MRO employees. This is a non-issue.
Jack, maybe you have links to where Warren has made these claims?
saimyoji
05-26-2008, 16:38
Jack, maybe you have links to where Warren has made these claims?
Oops, wrong post to quote. You know what I mean though.
Jack Tarlin
05-26-2008, 16:43
No, I don't know what you mean. Your post was unclear.
What is clear is that Warren was all giggly and excited about "catching" me doing something improper, but unfortunately missed out on the fact that the original post citing this misbehavior was posted here as a complete joke.
Easy mistake for the humor-impaired, I guess.
saimyoji
05-26-2008, 16:47
Case closed and bingo, my ass, Warren.
As recently as a few weeks ago, The Old Fhart provided all sorts of quotes detailing your activities. Not that this came as a surprise to anyone who's been here long.
link to these quotes. I'm often unclear to myself. :o
The Old Fhart
05-26-2008, 17:56
Saimyoji-"link to these quotes. I'm often unclear to myself."Unfortunately it appears you can't quote those posts, although the original posts are allowed to stand. Try this one quick:
"In over 30,000 miles of long distance hiking, I have paid only $125 in fines with a $300 return on my 'investment'."
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showpost.php?p=333434&postcount=38
Bulldawg
05-26-2008, 19:33
I seem to remember Warren advising hikers to break the law and cross Fontana Dam even if the government had closed it due to work being done on the dam to strengthen it. Not trying to fan the flames or take a side. But I do remember this thread and I remember all of Warren's posts advising hikers to break the law being deleted.
lol......you sure you're not trying to fan the flames??
9-2-75 - Ten park rangers are mobilized by the park supervisor to prevent the 19-member, 1975 UCONN Appalachian Trail Expedition from completing the last five miles of their unprecedented 2,070-mile summer journey. The rangers line up across the trail, in an obvious show of force, while the supervisor reads us the 'riot act.' The same supervisor who a week earlier had said he would do everything possible to allow our group to climb Katahdin this day.
Why all this? Katahdin holds the distinction of being the only 'public' mountain in the eastern United States that has summer hiking regulations which result in fines or jail sentences if they are disobeyed. The rule in question states: "Climbing and mountain hiking may be restricted to experienced and well-equipped persons during darkness or hazardous weather conditions at the discretion of the supervisor or district rangers."
There was no doubt that our expedition was both experienced and well-equipped for a summer climb of Katahdin. The supervisor breaking his word at the last minute by not allowing us to climb our last mountain was a bitter pill to swallow. Our rational and diplomatic discussion with him, and even a call to the Governor of Maine, were to no avail. After 109 days of unrestricted foot travel through the eastern mountains, we were stopped by the well-known oppressive atmosphere surrounding Baxter State Park.
We left the park knowing that we all completed our journey in spirit. I left two statements in the campground reflecting my feelings at the time:
"Baxter State Park, the park of the future - 1984." "It is a shame that a beautiful, free mountain such as Katahdin is in a state park such as Baxter."
Here is an interesting quote from "This is my last post on whiteblaze" Warren on this thread (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=6254) dated October, 30 2004 where, he mostly talk about civil disobedience and flaunting the law. But this section of the post, quoted above, about where he says and I repeat here: "We left the park knowing that we all completed our journey in spirit" really is telling. The man who insists every white blaze is critical to a completed thru-hike, completed his 1975 thru-hike "in spirit". :eek:
Lone Wolf
05-26-2008, 20:29
baxter park sucks.
Now L(drop the e)W, tell us what you really think.
You are not the only one who has had a bad experience there. I always enjoy the hiking there, however.
Lone Wolf
05-26-2008, 20:47
Now L(drop the e)W, tell us what you really think.
You are not the only one who has had a bad experience there. I always enjoy the hiking there, however.
i've never had a "bad experience" there. i just don't like the rules there. the terminus should be somewhere other than katahdin
Bear Cables
05-26-2008, 21:01
Trail Days sounds like Mardi Gras for the hiking crowd. Something for everyone. Never been but it sounds interesting.
I don't know the intent of your post, Fannypack, but just for the record, regardless of whatever signage you may have seen, responsible social drinking by adults is indeed permitted there, and takes place with the full knowledge of MRO employees. This is a non-issue.
As long as the drink is camouflaged in a Nalgene?
Perhaps the no drinking rule is applied somewhat inconstantly.
After reading these forums, it seems like some rules don't apply to everyone.
Lone Wolf.
Or L. Wolf.
Did I miss something?
OregonHiker
05-26-2008, 23:12
As long as the drink is camouflaged in a Nalgene?
Perhaps the no drinking rule is applied somewhat inconstantly.
After reading these forums, it seems like some rules don't apply to everyone.
Or, some people don't think the rules apply to them
warren doyle
05-26-2008, 23:46
This certainly is entertaining.
Lone Wolf
05-27-2008, 00:29
Did I miss something?
yeah you missed a great music festival this past weekend
"We left the park knowing that we all completed our journey in spirit." /quote from this thread (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=6254) dated October, 30 2004 in reference to his 1975 "thru-hike"/.
Based on the information reported by Kirby himself on at least two public forums (Trail Journals and White Blaze), it appears this young man has changed his original objective of walking the entire Appalachian Trail to walking from Springer to Katahdin
This certainly is entertaining.
Entertaining indeed. :D
After reading these forums, it seems like some rules don't apply to everyone.
Rick clearly gets it.
Jack Tarlin
05-27-2008, 08:27
Um. Mowgli, Rick clearly doesn't get it and doesn't know what he's talking about. (Gee, what a surprise).
I've been in Damascus off and on for a couple of weeks. I've been a frequent visitor, as well as a guest, at the hostel in Damascus. I've been there either as a visitor or a guest just about every day I was here, so I think I can speak with a certain ammount of authority about how the place is run. The people who supervise the place, as well as being my friends, have also been my employers.
The scoop at the hostel is that responsible social drinking is permitted, and anyone associated with the place will tell you this, including the resident caretaker.
So Rick and Mowgli, please give it a rest. You aren't writing from Damascus; you aren't familiar with the place in question or how it is run; and your comments are simply wrong.
Oh, and Warren, I'm glad you find this so entertaining. Watching you squirm and whine when people call you out for theft and fraud is equally so.
jersey joe
05-27-2008, 09:02
Here is an interesting quote from "This is my last post on whiteblaze" Warren on this thread (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=6254) dated October, 30 2004 where, he mostly talk about civil disobedience and flaunting the law. But this section of the post, quoted above, about where he says and I repeat here: "We left the park knowing that we all completed our journey in spirit" really is telling. The man who insists every white blaze is critical to a completed thru-hike, completed his 1975 thru-hike "in spirit". :eek:
It does seem a shame that the baxter rangers didn't let Warren and his group up Katahdin. Brings Baxter Park down a notch in my book, even if it was over thirty years ago.
Also, I see nothing in this post that is evidence of Warren "flaunting the law" AND he didn't choose to not follow the entire AT, he was forced to stop, big difference.
Lone Wolf
05-27-2008, 09:04
baxter park sucks.
like i said..... actually, take out the roads, rangers, cabins, gate house and campgrounds and baxter would be a great place
like i said..... actually, take out the roads, rangers, cabins, gate house and campgrounds and baxter would be a great place
But then it would be over-run with "people from away". :eek:
If you think it sucks, don't go there.
jersey joe
05-27-2008, 09:22
But then it would be over-run with "people from away". :eek:
If you think it sucks, don't go there.
I don't think baxter is in any risk of being over-run. I say this because it is one heck of a drive up there.(esp. now with gas prices)
The problem with not going there if you don't like it is that the trail ends(or begins) there. So if you aspire to thru hike the AT, you must go there.
Jack Tarlin
05-27-2008, 09:32
Actually, if one aspires to thru-hike the A.T. I thought that one was supposed to hike the whole Trail IN FACT, and not merely IN SPIRIT, and this includes the section of the Trail in Baxter State Park.
At least that's what noted authority Warren Doyle has told me. :D
like i said..... actually, take out the roads, rangers, cabins, gate house and campgrounds and baxter would be a great place
Lone Wolf,
I have to strongly disagree with your comment here. Baxter State Park is indeed a gorgous and wild place. It is that way specifically BECAUSE it is so tightly regulated. Yes there are crowds around Katahdin Stream and Abol Campgrounds, but that is only because everyone wants to climb Katahdin.
We should all be grateful that the park even exists. Where it not for Gov Baxter's generosity, the land park would never have been created and the woods therein wood be ruined like they are in most of the rest of Maine.. where Timber Companies have been king.
As far as the AT thru hiker is concerned.. BSP only involves a hiking in from Abol Bridge then up and down the mountain with a overnight stay at the birches. They even give thru hikers a reduced rate.
If that is too much for you guys.. you can always hike into Katahdin Stream camp ground, hitch out to Millinocket, stay at the hostel, get shuttled back next moring and climb Katahdin.
We as hikers should be grateful for the small amount of wilderness still left in the east and stive to do all possible to protect it!!!!
DavidNH (06 thru hiker Snickers)
Lone Wolf
05-27-2008, 09:36
But then it would be over-run with "people from away". :eek:
If you think it sucks, don't go there.
BS. take out the roads and locals won't go there either. too lazy to walk
Jack Tarlin
05-27-2008, 09:38
Gotta go with DavidNH on this one. The rules in Baxter are there in order to preserve the Park, and a few of them are there in order to make things safer for Park visitors and employees alike. Thru-hikers are usually in the Park for less than 24 hours. Considering this is one day out of a trip that can last more than 180, conforming to these rules and regulations doesn't seem to be that much of a burden, especially when considering what one gets in return.
And what one gets in return from Baxter State Park is a great deal.
Lone Wolf
05-27-2008, 09:38
Lone Wolf,
I have to strongly disagree with your comment here. Baxter State Park is indeed a gorgous and wild place. It is that way specifically BECAUSE it is so tightly regulated. Yes there are crowds around Katahdin Stream and Abol Campgrounds, but that is only because everyone wants to climb Katahdin.
We should all be grateful that the park even exists. Where it not for Gov Baxter's generosity, the land park would never have been created and the woods therein wood be ruined like they are in most of the rest of Maine.. where Timber Companies have been king.
As far as the AT thru hiker is concerned.. BSP only involves a hiking in from Abol Bridge then up and down the mountain with a overnight stay at the birches. They even give thru hikers a reduced rate.
If that is too much for you guys.. you can always hike into Katahdin Stream camp ground, hitch out to Millinocket, stay at the hostel, get shuttled back next moring and climb Katahdin.
We as hikers should be grateful for the small amount of wilderness still left in the east and stive to do all possible to protect it!!!!
DavidNH (06 thru hiker Snickers)
the AT should end/begin on whitecap mtn. leave katahdin for regulated sheeples
Jack Tarlin
05-27-2008, 09:42
Aw, Wolf, Blood Mountain has rules and regulations. So does Clingman's Dome. So does Washington.
Lots of places have rules and regulations. Whitecap probably does, too.
And other Parks have rules, regulations, and laws that apply to visitors, as well as Baxter State Park. Would you want to see the Trail out of the Smokies or Shenandoah because these places have rules? What about other State parks that the Trail goes thru, like Grayson Highlands? You want to see the Trail shifted away from there because Grayson also has park rules and regualtions?
Fact is, most of the places on the Trail have rules that apply to visitors, and this goes for forests, parks, game reserves, state lands, you name it. All these places have rules and regulations, and the vast majority of hikers don't seem overly troubled by this.
This goes for Baxter, too.
Lone Wolf
05-27-2008, 09:44
baxter is regulated the heaviest. ripe for rule breaking. what's this baxter crap got to do with non-drinkers at trail daze?
The Old Fhart
05-27-2008, 09:45
Jersey Joe-"It does seem a shame that the baxter rangers didn't let Warren and his group up Katahdin. Brings Baxter Park down a notch in my book, even if it was over thirty years ago."The fact that Baxter has always had rules and regulations (which have the force of Maine law, BTW), and you're not allowed to climb when the weather is bad, etc., is a plus in my book. What you should be asking yourself isn't about Baxter's character but the character of the one who was banned from Baxter and spent time in jail because of violating the rules.
Lone Wolf
05-27-2008, 09:47
The fact that Baxter has always had rules and regulations (which have the force of Maine law, BTW), and you're not allowed to climb when the weather is bad, etc., is a plus in my book. What you should be asking yourself isn't about Baxter's character but the character of the one who was banned from Baxter and spent time in jail because of violating the rules.
you ain't suppose to drink alcohol in the park but the rangers allow it. they pick and choose what to enforce
Jack Tarlin
05-27-2008, 09:49
Wolf's right. The thread has drifted. Way back when in the thread, there were some interesting and helpful comments on how Trail Days can be improved, or made more attractive for non-drinkers and non-partiers. Maybe we can return to that discussion and discuss Baxter rules and rule-breakers somewhere else. :rolleyes:
The Old Fhart
05-27-2008, 10:02
Lone Wolf-"you ain't suppose to drink alcohol in the park but the rangers allow it. they pick and choose what to enforce"Is there a point in that pithy post?:D
I have been at hostels where there were 'no drinking' signs posted and the owner or overseers offered me a drink. all enforcement has leeway in enforcing rules and regulations and they give the least slack to the known troublemakers. BTW, the sign at Dave's Place was outside to the left above the door during Trail Days this year as Fannypack said. Although I had no drinks the ENTIRE weekend at TD this year, I was offered several that I legally could have taken.
And, speaking of Dave's Place, Having stayed there for TD for 10 years, I have seen the body on the couch and another paying customer asked said freeloader to leave. I have been instructed since then to keep the windows locked to keep out the rabble.
Lone Wolf
05-27-2008, 10:12
Is there a point in that pithy post?:D
yeah i'll pick and choose what rules and regs to abide by
yeah i'll pick and choose what rules and regs to abide by
as most folks do. who drives 55 on an interstate designed and built for 85?
The Old Fhart
05-27-2008, 11:25
Lone Wolf-"yeah i'll pick and choose what rules and regs to abide by"Sorry, Bunky, only the owners, not the players get that option.:sun
BTW, your negative/aggressive attitude is sure to put you on their short list and give all thru-hikers a bad name, not that you'd care.:D
Lone Wolf
05-27-2008, 11:41
Sorry, Bunky, only the owners, not the players get that option.:sun
BTW, your negative/aggressive attitude is sure to put you on their short list and give all thru-hikers a bad name, not that you'd care.:D
you're right. i could care less.
The Old Fhart
05-27-2008, 12:02
Lone Wolf-"you're right. i could care less."Only 11 more steps to go!:D
yeah i'll pick and choose what rules and regs to abide by
Feeling a sense of entitlement are ya?:D
So I guess the good news is that if you ask the right person you can drink at the MRO hostel if you agree to hide your bottle or can.
I guess that makes the bad news the fact that so many would want and/or need to.
For all of your sakes I hope the rule regarding nudity still applies.
Clear cut and level all the mountains. After that pave them so more people can enjoy them. Put pay stations every couple of miles, build fake animals like at Disney World then you can jump aboard a bus and hike the trail in a matter of days.
Lone Wolf
05-27-2008, 14:40
So I guess the good news is that if you ask the right person you can drink at the MRO hostel if you agree to hide your bottle or can.
I guess that makes the bad news the fact that so many would want and/or need to.
For all of your sakes I hope the rule regarding nudity still applies.
it ain't what you know but who you know.
Jack Tarlin
05-27-2008, 14:42
Hey, Rick, are you always an ass or do you have to practice to maintain your credentials?
It's not a matter of asking the right person, Rick. The fact of the matter (and this has been pointed out quite a few times already) is that responsible social drinking by paying hostel guests is perfectly OK. (This has been explained around five times now, but I know Rick has reading problems).
The signs prohibiting alcohol are aimed at non-guests, primarily people staying at other locations like The Place Hostel, who come to Dave's Place to hang around and party. The posted signage is to discourage this, and it works. And this has been confirmed to me by the folks who run the hostel.
If you doubt any of this, Rick, I suggest you come to Damascus and look into this further, instead of speaking with such authority from Massachusetts. I think that the folks who run this place, and people who've been working and staying there the past few days might have a better idea of how the place is governed than you do.
And as for a hiker wanting a beer or two after a day's hiking, why does Rick think this is somehow "bad news?" Please share your Puritan ideals with someone else, Rick. If a hostel permits social drinking on its premises (like this one does) then people like Rick can stay somewhere else. I don't think they'll be much missed.
And I have no idea what the hostel policy on nudity is. Truly, Rick is the first person I've ever encountered who seems interested in this subject. :D
The Old Fhart
05-27-2008, 14:42
Rickb-"So I guess the good news is that if you ask the right person you can drink at the MRO hostel if you agree to hide your bottle or can.
I guess that makes the bad news the fact that so many would want and/or need to.
For all of your sakes I hope the rule regarding nudity still applies."
As to your second point the bad news is that you would make such a wild assumption when you weren't even there, and are totally ignorant of what went on there. When I stayed there during Trail days (for about the 10th year), I didn't have any adult beverages all weekend and I believe 5 other guests (about all the guests) abstained as well.
What is sad is that you seem to be more concerned with someone having a legal drink but don't seemed to be concerned than someone had broken the law and stole services by crawling in through a window and stayed without paying the required fee.
As far as nudity goes, I believe everyone at Dave's Place was probably naked sometime during the weekend-when they took a shower. :rolleyes:Your taking things out of context is hypocritical.
Lone Wolf
05-27-2008, 14:54
so if i send a hiker to dave's place and he checks in and then asks the owners if he can drink alcohol there he'll be told yes? even though a huge sign says no drinking? very confusing :-?
The Old Fhart
05-27-2008, 15:06
Lone Wolf-"so if i send a hiker to dave's place and he checks in and then asks the owners if he can drink alcohol there he'll be told yes? even though a huge sign says no drinking? very confusing"It has already been explained succinctly, but I can see how you would be confused.:cool:
Is you next comment going to be on the rampant nudity Rickb mentioned? :D
ChinMusic
05-27-2008, 15:06
Seems akin to "Don't ask, don't tell".
so if i send a hiker to dave's place and he checks in and then asks the owners if he can drink alcohol there he'll be told yes? even though a huge sign says no drinking? very confusing :-?
I guess the owners of the hostel will be pleased to know that despite the sign to the contrary, the word is out on the internet that it's OK to drink at Dave's Place.
If anyone gives you a hard time for drinking at that hostel, tell 'em you heard it was OK right here on Whiteblaze - from none other than Jack Tarlin.
Jack-it seems clear you didn't break the rules, if the owners say it is ok for guests to drink. However, having a sign that says "no alcoholic beverages allowed" (as per the picture someone posted) assumes there is no drinking, guest or no guest. Maybe if there was a clearer sign, you wouldn't have been accused (joke or no joke) and this wouldn't have been an issue, however petty it is.
Why not bring this up with your friends who own the place? You're there now. Can't you or someone else make a new sign to avoid future trouble? To assume that sign only applies to people visiting is silly. If you see a posted rule in a hostel, it's assumed it applies to all people, guests or not. Unless the owners don't care, in which case they are making themselves susceptible to more problems and people ignoring their rules.
When I stayed there, there was a caretaker there who seemed unconcerned that folks, guests or visitors were drinking at the hostel. The details of that night evade me, but the point is, I'm sure many hikers have partaken in drinking, whether they stayed there or not. As someone who has such a vested interest in the future of hiker establishments, you should see that this doesn't turn into a potential issue down the line.
The Old Fhart
05-27-2008, 15:14
Mowgli-"I guess the owners of the hostel will be pleased to know that despite the sign to the contrary, the word is out on the internet that it's OK to drink at Dave's Place.
If anyone gives you a hard time for drinking at that hostel, tell 'em you heard it was OK right here on Whiteblaze - from none other than Jack Tarlin."Obviously your reading comprehension lead you to miss the point that the sign was directed at interlopers and not paying guests. Your anti-drinking position is very well known but don't continue to distort the facts to promote your own agenda.
Jack Tarlin
05-27-2008, 15:17
A-Train:
Good letter. But the policies at this hostel have been in place for years. The only reason this could potentially "become an issue" is because people like Warren, Mowgli, and RickB are determined to make it one. I think the more prudent course is to let the folks who manage and run this place condtinue to do so as they see fit, without any help from modern-day pro-hibitionists, who neither live in Damascus or run hiker hostels. This is very well-run place we're talking about here, and they don't need help from Whiteblaze in running it.
Lone Wolf
05-27-2008, 15:17
It has already been explained succinctly, but I can see how you would be confused.:cool:
Is you next comment going to be on the rampant nudity Rickb mentioned? :D
BS. last year the same sign was there and NO alcohol was allowed there. inside, outside or in a cup. NO meant NO.
Lone Wolf
05-27-2008, 15:19
Obviously your reading comprehension lead you to miss the point that the sign was directed at interlopers and not paying guests. Your anti-drinking position is very well known but don't continue to distort the facts to promote your own agenda.
funny i've never heard jeff, tom or dave say the sign was directed towards non-paying guests. matter of fact wally was instructed to discourage any drinking on the property when he worked there
Lone Wolf
05-27-2008, 15:22
I guess the owners of the hostel will be pleased to know that despite the sign to the contrary, the word is out on the internet that it's OK to drink at Dave's Place.
If anyone gives you a hard time for drinking at that hostel, tell 'em you heard it was OK right here on Whiteblaze - from none other than Jack Tarlin.
yes it's OK if you're a paying guest. i'm gonna start sending folks there
A-Train:
Good letter. But the policies at this hostel have been in place for years. The only reason this could potentially "become an issue" is because people like Warren, Mowgli, and RickB are determined to make it one. I think the more prudent course is to let the folks who manage and run this place condtinue to do so as they see fit, without any help from modern-day pro-hibitionists, who neither live in Damascus or run hiker hostels. This is very well-run place we're talking about here, and they don't need help from Whiteblaze in running it.
Sorry, but this makes zero sense to me. You say the policies have been in play for years. But what are the policies and where are they listed? If a sign says "no drinking" or "no alcohol allowed" that is a policy. In which case you broke a rule (as did probably hundreds of others, myself included). If what you are saying, that guests are allowed to drink (using a concealed bottle) then the sign should be modified to something like "drinking for guests only" etc.
But if you want to let them continue to run the place as they see fit, don't come on here in an outrage when an incident occurs involving alcohol (fight, drunken incident, medical situation, etc.) It would be a shame for a hiker who was told them could drink by an owner/caretaker to be responsible for their wrongdoing and pointed towards a sign that said "no drinking".
If the rules are clear, there can be no room for misunderstanding and issues.
smokymtnsteve
05-27-2008, 15:24
then should not the sign say DRINKING FOR PAYING GUEST ONLY...?
btw aren't you a customer instead of a guest if you are paying?
then should not the sign say DRINKING FOR PAYING GUEST ONLY...?
btw aren't you a customer instead of a guest if you are paying?
It's my fault Steve. Jack and the Old Phart said so. :D
The Old Fhart
05-27-2008, 15:29
Lone Wolf-"BS. last year the same sign was there and NO alcohol was allowed there. inside, outside or in a cup. NO meant NO."In the past I have had a beer on the porch with TPTB, sorry, you're wrong.
Maybe they just didn't want you drinking there.:D
Lone Wolf
05-27-2008, 15:30
then should not the sign say DRINKING FOR PAYING GUEST ONLY...?
one would think so but from now on i'll tell hikers they can go there and drink if they rent a room since it's a clear policy
Lone Wolf
05-27-2008, 15:31
In the past I have had a beer on the porch with TPTB, sorry, you're wrong.
Maybe they just didn't want you drinking there.:D
nope you're very wrong. you come here a few days a year. you know squat
nope you're very wrong. you come here a few days a year. you know squat
What do you know about Damascus?? :p
The Old Fhart
05-27-2008, 15:34
Mowgli-"It's my fault Steve. Jack and the Old Phart said so."Spelling people's name wrong could be a sign you're in relapse. ;)
...or maybe you just don't pay attention to things that don't fit into your scheme of things.:rolleyes
Lone Wolf-"you know squat"True, I do know you.
Spelling people's name wrong could be a sign you're in relapse. ;)
Had 2 Sam Adams last night. Mmmm good.
Lone Wolf
05-27-2008, 15:36
What do you know about Damascus?? :p
i know that hikers who thought they weren't allowed to drink at dave's as guests were buying beer and sneaking under the trestle to drink it risking arrest when all along they could've been at dave's drinking. they need to tell their guest with signs or verbally when they check in that it's OK
Creek Dancer
05-27-2008, 15:40
When I stayed at Dave's Place last Fall, Wally came by during the evening and warned us against drinking on the premises. We had seen the sign and we weren't drinking. Maybe the policy has changed for guests.
i know that hikers who thought they weren't allowed to drink at dave's as guests were buying beer and sneaking under the trestle to drink it risking arrest when all along they could've been at dave's drinking. they need to tell their guest with signs or verbally when they check in that it's OK
Lone Wolf
05-27-2008, 15:41
When I stayed at Dave's Place last Fall, Wally came by during the evening and warned us against drinking on the premises. We had seen the sign and we weren't drinking. Maybe the policy has changed for guests.
accordind to ol fart drinking has been allowed since it was open
Pepper Beard
05-27-2008, 15:42
If the sign says no DRINKING, it means just that. It's people who disregard these rules that causes places that like to shut down for everyone. Abuse of alcohol is the #1 reason why stuff gets shut down.
I care less if someone drinks or not but use some common sense and obey the rules.
When I stayed at Dave's Place last Fall, Wally came by during the evening and warned us against drinking on the premises. We had seen the sign and we weren't drinking. Maybe the policy has changed for guests.
The intrigue grows. :-? This is better than tv!
Lone Wolf
05-27-2008, 15:45
I care less if someone drinks or not but use some common sense and obey the rules.
obviously the rules are extremely vague at dave's place hostel
Jack Tarlin
05-27-2008, 15:45
Lots of things have indeed changed. For one thing, Wally no longer runs the place. :rolleyes:
Lone Wolf
05-27-2008, 15:47
Lots of things have indeed changed. For one thing, Wally no longer runs the place. :rolleyes:
he never did "run" the place. he did what he was told by the owners because of past alcohol related incidences hence the NO ALCOHOL ALLOWED sign
warren doyle
05-27-2008, 15:48
The fact that Baxter has always had rules and regulations (which have the force of Maine law, BTW), and you're not allowed to climb when the weather is bad, etc., is a plus in my book. What you should be asking yourself isn't about Baxter's character but the character of the one who was banned from Baxter and spent time in jail because of violating the rules.
Just some more slanted garbage from a member of the 'Holy Trinity' internegator group.
I have never been banned from Baxter State Park (ask Buz Caverly) and I purposefully and voluntarily chose to spend a day in jail instead of paying a $25 fine (see the Katahdin news). That was the point/principle of this nonviolent civil disobedient act which, by the way, I am not ashamed of.
So now it is 'two for two' for examples of malicious, mean-spirited lies from the Holy Trinity.
Lots of things have indeed changed. For one thing, Wally no longer runs the place. :rolleyes:
he never did "run" the place. he did what he was told by the owners because of past alcohol related incidences hence the NO ALCOHOL ALLOWED sign
Battle of the trail legends. Who is right? I think we need a steel cage to decide this one! :p
Lone Wolf
05-27-2008, 15:50
Battle of the trail legends. Who is right? I think we need a steel cage to decide this one! :p
i am of course. people who come here for a few days a year aren't right. i ain't no legend, just blue-blazin hiker trash
Is you next comment going to be on the rampant nudity Rickb mentioned? :D
If God thought Nudity was OK he would not have given us the Gap.
Sounds like more fun to kvetch about the rules at Baxter.
Selective enforcement of rules.
Tourists in general.
Lone Wolf
05-27-2008, 16:33
Free spirits and others who would challenge convention add texture to the AT. Whether you approve of WD or not, his approach gives even Jack pause to think about those values that he holds dear.
The culture of drink along the Trail adds nothing. Not sure why it is celebrated so.
All hostels would do well to make the choice to keep it away from their facilities, for both their own benefit as well as that of their guests.
Even happy drunks are hardly the kinds of people most people want to be forced to share a bunkroom with. Even if they are kind enough not to tell you so directly.
i just spoke with Jeff of MRO. i asked him if it was OK to drink at the hostel if you stay there. he said the sign is clear. no drinking. so much for a drinking "policy".
i just came from "The Place" church hostel and found a really nice titanium fuel bottle filled with beer. dumped the beer, kept the bottle. nice score
i just spoke with Jeff of MRO. i asked him if it was OK to drink at the hostel if you stay there. he said the sign is clear. no drinking. so much for a drinking "policy".
There must be a (asterisk *) trail legend exemption. :D
Free spirits and others who would challenge convention add texture to the AT. Whether you approve of WD or not, his approach gives even Jack pause to think about those values that he holds dear.
The culture of drink along the Trail adds nothing. Not sure why it is celebrated so.
All hostels would do well to make the choice to keep it away from their facilities, for both their own benefit as well as that of their guests.
Even happy drunks are hardly the kinds of people most people want to be forced to share a bunkroom with. Even if they are kind enough not to tell you so directly.
One of the reasons places like Kincorra and Pooh's Corner (in Truckee Ca, PCT) operate so smoothly is because of the no-drinking policy. Also with these places, the only way a hiker can obtain alcohol (and food) is by taking a ride from the owner/proprietor. If you can't go a night without drinking, you shouldn't stay at hostels. I'm no puritan, I enjoy drinks with friends, but one should really split a motel room if they wish to drink moderately, not in communal places like hostels and people's homes (unless they encourage it).
It's 5 o'clock, I think I will grab a beer to go with my popcorn. :)
ofthearth
05-27-2008, 17:08
i just came from "The Place" church hostel and found a really nice titanium fuel bottle filled with beer. dumped the beer, kept the bottle. nice score
Sure hope it was beer:eek: but then you dumped it so..........
Fannypack
05-27-2008, 17:11
i just spoke with Jeff of MRO. i asked him if it was OK to drink at the hostel if you stay there. he said the sign is clear. no drinking. so much for a drinking "policy".
i just came from "The Place" church hostel and found a really nice titanium fuel bottle filled with beer. dumped the beer, kept the bottle. nice score
Thx LW for the clarification!
Some persons can't read the signs at Dave's MRO hostel just like others can't read the signs at The Place.
Of course, some persons would say that "no one told me I couldn't drink there/here!". Isn't it amazing how "some" alcoholics can rationalize their drinking.
Isn't it amazing how "some" alcoholics can rationalize their drinking.
What's more amazing is when former alchies and non-drinkers assume anyone with a beer is automatically an alchie or is simply trash and a crisis is imminent.
The Old Fhart
05-27-2008, 17:25
TOF-“What you should be asking yourself isn't about Baxter's character but the character of the one who was banned from Baxter and spent time in jail because of violating the rules.”
WD-“I have never been banned from Baxter State Park…”
Dictionary definition-ban - prohibit especially by legal means or social pressure…
WD Flip-flop-“Ten park rangers are mobilized by the park supervisor to prevent the 19-member, 1975 UCONN Appalachian Trail Expedition from completing the last five miles of their unprecedented 2,070-mile summer journey. The rangers line up across the trail, in an obvious show of force, while the supervisor reads us the 'riot act.'” What's your definition of banned?:D
+++++++++++++++++++++++
WD-“I purposefully and voluntarily chose to spend a day in jail instead of paying a $25 fine …” As I said, you “spent time in jail because of violating the rules.” Common crime, common criminal.
WD-"So now it is 'two for two' for examples of malicious, mean-spirited lies from the Holy Trinity."There is nothing in my statement that you disagree with, and in fact, you readily admit to the these acts.
RITBlake
05-27-2008, 17:48
ahhh let me just put my feet up and enjoy..
http://www.twohotpeppers.com/images/450/Beer,%20Popcorn%20&%20Peanuts_450.jpg
Frolicking Dinosaurs
05-27-2008, 17:52
I'll have some rootbeer and popcorn - items allowed in virtually all hostels :D
ahhh let me just put my feet up and enjoy..
http://www.twohotpeppers.com/images/450/Beer,%20Popcorn%20&%20Peanuts_450.jpg
With RIT in your name, I hope that's Genny C in that pitcher.
With RIT in your name, I hope that's Genny C in that pitcher.
Utica Club? :eek:
The Old Fhart
05-27-2008, 17:58
Although there was officially no drinking there, about 20 years ago I had a beer at the 501 hostel when the caretaker came out and offered me one. The same has happened to me at Trail Days.
RITBlake
05-27-2008, 17:59
With RIT in your name, I hope that's Genny C in that pitcher.
Accept no substitutes!
Although there was officially no drinking there, about 20 years ago I had a beer at the 501 hostel when the caretaker came out and offered me one. The same has happened to me at Trail Days.
Who is the caretaker at Trail Days?
Thx LW for the clarification!
Some persons can't read the signs at Dave's MRO hostel just like others can't read the signs at The Place.
Of course, some persons would say that "no one told me I couldn't drink there/here!". Isn't it amazing how "some" alcoholics can rationalize their drinking.
"Live and Let Live" please:)
Accept no substitutes!
How is this for trail magic: It was one of my hottest days on the trail and the springs were going dry. Just as I was ending my day a Genesee Beer truck (the kind with multiple taps along the side) appears out of nowhere.
Unknown to me, the town (Pawling, NY?) was having its Labor Day celebration at Edward R. Murrow Park. Not sure if I told them I was from the Rochester area, or if I just looked thirsty but I sort of got adopted by the crew.
To this day I thank God it wasn't Rolling Rock.
I am sure some hostel rules are usually for the masses. If you know the caretaker, then the same rules might not apply. What's wrong with that - NOTHING! It sounds to me that being asked to "disguise" their beverages was a gesture of friendship to a few that could be trusted not to create a ruckus and not an open beverage policy for the masses.
And knowlingly disobeying hostel rules (or neglecting to get permission to bend them) are, in no way, no how, comparable to the reprehensible theft of services or flagrant violation of the law that often is carried out by certain parties, make that party of one.
Bending hostel rules with permission, in fact, is different but no worse than saying one finished the Trail "in spirit", then coming back and saying, we went back and finished. Didn't sound like that was the plan, but guess he was feeling guilty about one law that matters to him and few others - the "every white blaze" law.
Now that I think about it, it is kind of interesting that the one who holds the law of "every white blaze" over everyone's head thinks nothing of taking in a service he didn't pay for or sneaking through a gate that by law, clearly states: "do not pass".
RITBlake
05-27-2008, 18:37
How is this for trail magic: It was one of my hottest days on the trail and the springs were going dry. Just as I was ending my day a Genesee Beer truck (the kind with multiple taps along the side) appears out of nowhere.
Unknown to me, the town (Pawling, NY?) was having its Labor Day celebration at Edward R. Murrow Park. Not sure if I told them I was from the Rochester area, or if I just looked thirsty but I sort of got adopted by the crew.
To this day I thank God it wasn't Rolling Rock.
Amazing! Your story could only be topped if the beer truck was followed by a zweigles truck w/ whites and reds on the grill!
I am sure some hostel rules are usually for the masses. If you know the caretaker, then the same rules might not apply. What's wrong with that - NOTHING! It sounds to me that being asked to "disguise" their beverages was a gesture of friendship to a few that could be trusted not to create a ruckus and not an open beverage policy for the masses.
And knowlingly disobeying hostel rules (or neglecting to get permission to bend them) are, in no way, no how, comparable to the reprehensible theft of services or flagrant violation of the law that often is carried out by certain parties, make that party of one.
Bending hostel rules with permission, in fact, is different but no worse than saying one finished the Trail "in spirit", then coming back and saying, we went back and finished. Didn't sound like that was the plan, but guess he was feeling guilty about one law that matters to him and few others - the "every white blaze" law.
Now that I think about it, it is kind of interesting that the one who holds the law of "every white blaze" over everyone's head thinks nothing of taking in a service he didn't pay for or sneaking through a gate that by law, clearly states: "do not pass".
Wipe that nasty brown smudge off your nose. :p
Skywalker had it pegged right (pp. 137-138; 196-197) in his new book Skywalker - Close Encounters on the Appalachian Trail.
Is it true that you asked him to reconsider hiking the AT? If so, what's that all about?
Is that why you got a free book?
What's more amazing is when former alchies and non-drinkers assume anyone with a beer is automatically an alchie.I don't think anyone said here that anyone with a beer is an alcoholic, and I doubt a former alcoholic would take it upon himself to brand anyone else an alcoholic. Nowhere did I see it stated or even implied that Trail Days should be alcohol free. This whole thread is based on people who don't drink or have youngsters with them having fun of their own AWAY from the drinkers, not instead of drinkers.
I think what the person was getting was that people ought to forego alcohol for one night when he/she was a guest at a hostel where NO ALCOHOL signs were prominently displayed, or that the caretaker said that the policy was no alcohol. The same applies to tobacco, or pets. Or it might be that the person simply didn't see the sign and expressed regret. Either way, it isn't the beer that is the issue, it is where the beer is consumed.
One could make all kinds of rationalizations why it is okay to drink, smoke, etc where the owners/caretakers says it isn't permitted, but it is such a simple request for the owner/caretaker to make in return for providing a cheap and homey place to stay. There may be one or two people who cannot stop drinking or smoking for a single night or doesn't care about their host's wishes, but I'd like to think that just about all of us would follow such requests.
It is good for us, good for the hostel, and good for the hikers that follow us up the trail.
What's not to like?
Frolicking Dinosaurs
05-27-2008, 19:33
As a recovering alkie I don't care what people choose to drink, but I do care deeply about those who have a problem with controlling their alcohol use. My concern comes not from a desire to control anyone's behavior nor from an "I'm holier-than-thou" attitude, but from the memory of how miserable it is to drink and not be able to stop when you want. I wouldn't wish that kind of pain and anguish on anyone.
If you do not have the ability to forgo alcohol for an evening spent in the 'home' of a host who has expressed the desire not to have alcohol on the premises, you have a drinking problem. If you have the ability to abstain and simply choose to ignore the rule, you have a problem other than alcoholism. Either way, if you drink (or use drugs or smoke or dip or curse, etc.) where the house rules prohibit it, you have a problem that you need to address IMO YMMV.
Frosty, FannyPack does seem to lean toward thinking someone who is having a beer is an alchie. Other posts might lead one to believe that anyone with a beer is evil. I see nothing wrong with having a beer when permission has been granted by the Hostel owner. I see nothing wrong with the hostel owner asking the beer drinkers to be discrete. I see nothing wrong here, yet the non-drinkers continue to insist this is wrong. It takes away from nothing, including doing things with family.
Let's take a professional baseball game as an example. [I am sure this applies in many situations.] You take your family to a game, because that is what they love and they want to go. You know that people are going to be drinking. Do you ask for the non-drinking section? Course not, there ain't one. But you do make sure to avoid the cheap seats where the rowdies are. You take your seats and certainly there will be people around you having a beer. It's like a mini-vacation after all, especially at today's prices. Sure enough, you could run into some rowdies, they may even be sitting next to you. Do what I do, tell them respectfully that you are with family and you would appreciate it if they could use less of the "f" word, calm down a little, and show a little respect toward the families who came to enjoy the game. Works every time.
Maybe Billville might not be a family activity for most, don't go then. Maybe a no-alcohol Hostel is not a place for a party, don't go then. Maybe the drinkers could respect non-drinkers and vice-versa and share some space in between. No biggee. :)
Wipe that nasty brown smudge off your nose. :p
I call 'em like I see 'em.
And for some stupid reason, I take my blazes pure and white. :p
Lone Wolf
05-27-2008, 21:37
Frosty, FannyPack does seem to lean toward thinking someone who is having a beer is an alchie. Other posts might lead one to believe that anyone with a beer is evil. I see nothing wrong with having a beer when permission has been granted by the Hostel owner. I see nothing wrong with the hostel owner asking the beer drinkers to be discrete. I see nothing wrong here, yet the non-drinkers continue to insist this is wrong. It takes away from nothing, including doing things with family.
Let's take a professional baseball game as an example. [I am sure this applies in many situations.] You take your family to a game, because that is what they love and they want to go. You know that people are going to be drinking. Do you ask for the non-drinking section? Course not, there ain't one. But you do make sure to avoid the cheap seats where the rowdies are. You take your seats and certainly there will be people around you having a beer. It's like a mini-vacation after all, especially at today's prices. Sure enough, you could run into some rowdies, they may even be sitting next to you. Do what I do, tell them respectfully that you are with family and you would appreciate it if they could use less of the "f" word, calm down a little, and show a little respect toward the families who came to enjoy the game. Works every time.
Maybe Billville might not be a family activity for most, don't go then. Maybe a no-alcohol Hostel is not a place for a party, don't go then. Maybe the drinkers could respect non-drinkers and vice-versa and share some space in between. No biggee. :)
the hostel owners in question have given no special permission for drinking to special people. NO ALCOHOL at Dave's Hostel. period. end of story
Let's take a professional baseball game as an example. [I am sure this applies in many situations.] You take your family to a game, because that is what they love and they want to go. You know that people are going to be drinking. Do you ask for the non-drinking section? Course not, there ain't one.
From Yankees.com
ALCOHOL-FREE FAMILY SECTIONS
Alcohol-free family sections are available in the following locations: Tier Reserved, Sec. 13 and 14, and the entirety of the Bleachers.
I've sat there with my family. Any other pearls of wisdom you care to share with us on this subject? :rolleyes:
Lone Wolf
05-27-2008, 21:39
From Yankees.com
ALCOHOL-FREE FAMILY SECTIONS
Alcohol-free family sections are available in the following locations: Tier Reserved, Sec. 13 and 14, and the entirety of the Bleachers.
I've sat there with my family. Any other pearls of wisdom you care to share with us on this subject? :rolleyes:
Bristol Motor Speedway has alcohol-free family zones. turn 4 i think
warren doyle
05-27-2008, 21:40
A 383-mile know-it-all.
...ahhh the vagaries of cyber democracy.
the hostel owners in question have given no special permission for drinking to special people. NO ALCOHOL at Dave's Hostel. period. end of story
I saw your previous posts about that and I was not arguing about whether permission was granted or not. But Jack says he had permission and I see no reason why he would lie about that, so I will take him at his word.
Lone Wolf
05-27-2008, 21:46
I saw your previous posts about that and I was not arguing about whether permission was granted or not. But Jack says he had permission and I see no reason why he would lie about that, so I will take him at his word.
he did not have permission. he assumed
From Yankees.com
ALCOHOL-FREE FAMILY SECTIONS
Alcohol-free family sections are available in the following locations: Tier Reserved, Sec. 13 and 14, and the entirety of the Bleachers.
I've sat there with my family. Any other pearls of wisdom you care to share with us on this subject? :rolleyes:
Thanks for that. Guess you never heard of the bleacher creachers. Not a place for family, I assure you. Besides, how am I supposed to order a beer if I wanted to? ;) I don't usually, but if I did? :)
Thanks for that. Guess you never heard of the bleacher creachers. Not a place for family, I assure you. Besides, how am I supposed to order a beer if I wanted to? ;) I don't usually, but if I did? :)
I've been to over 200 games at the Stadium since it was remodeled. Haven't heard of the bleacher creatures?? I'm listening to the game RIGHT NOW.
A 383-mile know-it-all.
...ahhh the vagaries of cyber democracy.
20,000 miles and you have learned nothing.
Listen Doylie, that's 383 AT miles, I have 7,200 non-AT miles. Mostly in Europe, South America, some out west, and base camp at Everest. Know-it-all indeed. :D
I've been to over 200 games at the Stadium since it was remodeled. Haven't heard of the bleacher creatures?? I'm listening to the game RIGHT NOW.
Maybe this will help ya... :)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bleacher_Creatures
Lone Wolf
05-27-2008, 21:55
20,000 miles and you have learned nothing.
Listen Doylie, that's 383 AT miles, I have 7,200 non-AT miles. Mostly in Europe, South America, some out west, and base camp at Everest. Know-it-all indeed. :D
but just a measly 383 AT miles. you know very little about it
I've been to over 200 games at the Stadium since it was remodeled. Haven't heard of the bleacher creatures?? I'm listening to the game RIGHT NOW.
Sure glad the Yanks got a new manager, eh? :rolleyes:
Maybe this will help ya... :)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bleacher_Creatures
I don't need Wikipedia to learn about Yankee Stadium or the bleacher creatures. I was going there alone at age 14 every weekend they were home with money from my paper route. Caught two balls in 2006 - in two games. Thanks anyway. :sun
warren doyle
05-27-2008, 22:02
Thanks for confirming my post.
It's 30,000 AT miles over the last 36 years.
You know nothing about me and seem like just an unwitting regurgitator of some of the internegators' uninformed, abusive, distorted information.
but just a measly 383 AT miles. you know very little about it
I know the sections I have hiked. I have learned quite a bit about the AT here and in talking with thru-hikers and sectioners. I have learned that some are more expert than they realize and some so called experts, ah, think highly of themselves and that miles is a measure of a man. But the most important thing I have learned is that the AT is way overblown for what it is. It is just hiking, but some seem to think that the AT is larger than life and needs all sorts of rules that don't exist on other trails.
One of the biggest lessons I learned was just this past weekend. When doing some local miles, we ran into a fella doing an 18 day section from MA to DWG to complete everything from Springer to Pinkham Notch. Nice fellow, nice chat. I asked him what his trail name was and he didn't have one. He was just a hiker and could care less about all the AT hoopla and rules. It was just a trail to him. And that, my friends, is all it is.
ChinMusic
05-27-2008, 22:09
And that, my friends, is all it is.
For him.
Lone Wolf
05-27-2008, 22:09
I know the sections I have hiked. I have learned quite a bit about the AT here and in talking with thru-hikers and sectioners. I have learned that some are more expert than they realize and some so called experts, ah, think highly of themselves and that miles is a measure of a man. But the most important thing I have learned is that the AT is way overblown for what it is. It is just hiking, but some seem to think that the AT is larger than life and needs all sorts of rules that don't exist on other trails.
One of the biggest lessons I learned was just this past weekend. When doing some local miles, we ran into a fella doing an 18 day section from MA to DWG to complete everything from Springer to Pinkham Notch. Nice fellow, nice chat. I asked him what his trail name was and he didn't have one. He was just a hiker and could care less about all the AT hoopla and rules. It was just a trail to him. And that, my friends, is all it is.
all well and good. i'm just sayin' drinking ain't allowed at Dave's Place no matter what your heroes say.
Thanks for confirming my post.
It's 30,000 AT miles over the last 36 years.
You know nothing about me and seem like just an unwitting regurgitator of some of the internegators' uninformed, abusive, distorted information.
Sorry, Mr. 30,000 miler, a typo I assure you.
Ditto on knowing nothing about me.
The information I unwittingly regurgitated came from you. I have read your posts over the years and went from admirer to shock and finally sadness. Sadness that you continue to promote yourself as holier than thou and live in denial that some of the things you have done were just plain wrong.
But, I will leave you alone. I have made my point. Most already have your number. I wish you the best, truly I do. And I wish you the best in resolving whatever demons continue to drive you.
warren doyle
05-27-2008, 22:21
Watch for "Driving Mr. Doyle" at a cinema near you.
Or the people who demonize.....
I just love the camaraderie here on Whiteblaze. We're just a big, happy family.
all well and good. i'm just sayin' drinking ain't allowed at Dave's Place no matter what your heroes say.
Okay, you live there, so I don't doubt that Dave's rules are what they are. Personally I wouldn't bend them, unless he was my friend and handed me the beer. ;)
Besides LW - you are my hero. Didn't ya know? :D
I don't need Wikipedia to learn about Yankee Stadium or the bleacher creatures. I was going there alone at age 14 every weekend they were home with money from my paper route. Caught two balls in 2006 - in two games. Thanks anyway. :sun
The Mets also have a non-drinking section. I sometimes sit there because the tickets are easier to get :) and drinking 8 dollar piss is idiotic.
Last time I stepped foot in Yankee Stadium I went alone and sat in the bleachers, age 14. Like I say, it was the last time I stepped foot there. Nice weather that day.
I just love the camaraderie here on Whiteblaze. We're just a big, happy family.
Camaraderie... hehe. Now, that's funny!
The Mets also have a non-drinking section. I sometimes sit there because the tickets are easier to get :) and drinking 8 dollar piss is idiotic.
Last time I stepped foot in Yankee Stadium I went alone and sat in the bleachers, age 14. Like I say, it was the last time I stepped foot there. Nice weather that day.
9A bus from New City to GW Bridge Plaza. A-Train to 141st Street. D Train to 161st and River.
Good times. :)
9A bus from New City to GW Bridge Plaza. A-Train to 141st Street. D Train to 161st and River.
Good times. :)
Hehe. This A-Train don't go to the Bronx. Or Staten Island. Mostly runs local in Brooklyn and Manhattan, with the occasional express jaunt out to Queens for games. And of course out of town for hiking.
Hehe. This A-Train don't go to the Bronx. Or Staten Island. Mostly runs local in Brooklyn and Manhattan, with the occasional express jaunt out to Queens for games. And of course out of town for hiking.
We're both having a tough year. Hope the Mets don't fire Willie.
I don't need Wikipedia to learn about Yankee Stadium or the bleacher creatures. I was going there alone at age 14 every weekend they were home with money from my paper route. Caught two balls in 2006 - in two games. Thanks anyway. :sun
With 200 games, I know you knew. But you asked and I smiled. :)
Never really thought much about finding a non-drinking section, so thanks for the education. Don't think I will look for one either. I don't like breaking the rules. :D
Hehe. This A-Train don't go to the Bronx. Or Staten Island. Mostly runs local in Brooklyn and Manhattan, with the occasional express jaunt out to Queens for games. And of course out of town for hiking.
If you ever take the Harlem Line to the Trail and need a ride, PM me.
The Old Fhart
05-27-2008, 22:37
Lone Wolf-"all well and good. i'm just sayin' drinking ain't allowed at Dave's Place no matter what your heroes say."I have known Dave since we hiked thru the 100 mile 'wilderness' and we summited together in 1990. At one Trail Days he gave me the keys to his jeep so I could go get breakfast at the VFD. I have sat on the Porch with Dave and had a beer. Although I wasn't drinking at TD this year, I was offered drink at the hostel. All these facts are easily verified, ask around.
Sorry, Lone Wolf, as usual you are FOS.:D
If you ever take the Harlem Line to the Trail and need a ride, PM me.
Thanks. Do the same if you need a place to stay in NYC ever.
Lone Wolf
05-27-2008, 22:40
I have known Dave since we hiked thru the 100 mile 'wilderness' and we summited together in 1990. At one Trail Days he gave me the keys to his jeep so I could go get breakfast at the VFD. I have sat on the Porch with Dave and had a beer. Although I wasn't drinking at TD this year, I was offered drink at the hostel. All these facts are easily verified, ask around.
Sorry, Lone Wolf, as usual you are FOS.:D
BFD :rolleyes: Jeff who is the current owner told me earlier NO drinking is allowed. go **** yourself and your so-called knowledge of how the hostel is run.
oh and who offered you the drink?
BFD :rolleyes: Jeff who is the current owner told me earlier NO drinking is allowed. go **** yourself and your so-called knowledge of how the hostel is run
Aaaaaand, he's back. :)
I have known Dave since we hiked thru the 100 mile 'wilderness' and we summited together in 1990. At one Trail Days he gave me the keys to his jeep so I could go get breakfast at the VFD. I have sat on the Porch with Dave and had a beer. Although I wasn't drinking at TD this year, I was offered drink at the hostel. All these facts are easily verified, ask around.
Sorry, Lone Wolf, as usual you are FOS.:D
As long as the drink is camouflaged in a Nalgene?
Perhaps the no drinking rule is applied somewhat inconstantly.
After reading these forums, it seems like some rules don't apply to everyone.
Lone Wolf
05-27-2008, 22:44
__________________________________________________ ______________
no means no so the owner says
The Old Fhart
05-27-2008, 22:47
Lone Wolf-"go **** yourself and your so-called knowledge of how the hostel is run"Thank you for the heartfelt sentiment. :welcome Check it out space-ball, you see everything I said is absolutely true.
Lone Wolf
05-27-2008, 22:49
Thank you for the heartfelt sentiment. :welcome Check it out space-ball, you see everything I said is absolutely true.
you're way wrong and FOS. and WHO offered you a drink? i bet it wasn't jeff, dave or tom
What about the written policy that has been e-mailed around, Wolf?
We're just a big, happy family.
I am filling in for a co-worker and working some OT.
I must say this thread (and some way cool Johnny Cash Television Show youtube videos) are keeping me entertained.
In any case, this thread reminds me of my Mom's side of the family: big, dysfunctional and lots of yelling. :)
Lone Wolf
05-27-2008, 22:55
What about the written policy that has been e-mailed around, Wolf?
WHAT written policy? written by whom? e-mailed by whom? there is no policy except that NO ALCOHOL is allowed at Dave's Place
Amazing the lengths that some people will go to to rationalize their behavior.
Wanna drink in Damascus? Go to Dots and patronize a local business.
WHAT written policy? written by whom? e-mailed by whom? there is no policy except that NO ALCOHOL is allowed at Dave's Place
Jack sent it out. Not to me. See post 117.
Lone Wolf
05-27-2008, 23:00
Jack sent it out. Not to me. See post 117.
funny, no where at the hostel or at MRO does it say drinking is allowed by guests. fart and jack are makin' stuff up :cool:
Jack sent it out. Not to me. See post 117.
Post 117 was directed at me. The PM Jack sent me has been contradicted by the info posted by Lone Wolf today after speaking to the owners. I'd post the PM here that Jack sent me, but I wouldn't do that without Jack saying it was OK first. That seems like simple courtesy regarding private correspondence.
IIn any case, this thread reminds me of my Mom's side of the family: big, dysfunctional and lots of yelling. :)
Too bad you had to read that stuff about the Yankees and Mets. Go to bed and try not to let that ugliness ruin your evening.
Too bad you had to read that stuff about the Yankees and Mets. Go to bed and try not to let that ugliness ruin your evening.
Mags has been known to take the bus to Coors Field to see the Mets play the Rockies. Or so I've heard. ;)
Post 117 was directed at me. The PM Jack sent me has been contradicted by the info posted by Lone Wolf today after speaking to the owners. I'd post the PM here that Jack sent me, but I wouldn't do that without Jack saying it was OK first. That seems like simple courtesy regarding private correspondence.
OK, not the MRO/hostel policy.
warren doyle
05-27-2008, 23:05
funny, no where at the hostel or at MRO does it say drinking is allowed by guests. fart and jack are makin' stuff up :cool:
Well, surprise, surprise!
On to Pearisburg!
Bulldawg
05-27-2008, 23:05
Bristol Motor Speedway has alcohol-free family zones. turn 4 i think
I was wishing for an alcohol free section at Charlotte two weeks ago. I drink socially, but can;t for the live of me understand why someone would pay $100 for a ticket to an event they spend half the race in the bathroom draining the 2 cases of beer their obnoxious ass has drunk.
I have learned quite a bit about the AT here and in talking with thru-hikers and sectioners. You're not alone in that. There are others whose source of knowledge of the AT is talking with people who actually hike the AT.
But you can learn a lot by listening to guys like Warren and Mowgli, who continue to hike, if you pay attention.
You're not alone in that. There are others whose source of knowledge of the AT is talking with people who actually hike the AT.
But you can learn a lot by listening to guys like Warren and Mowgli, who continue to hike, if you pay attention.
Or just get out and hike yourself.
This whole donnybrook got started over second hand reports gleaned, perhaps, over one too many drinks.
I am sure Jack's apologies will be forthcoming in the morning.
I am sure Jack's apologies will be forthcoming in the morning.
Don't hold your breath. :D
But you can learn a lot by listening to guys like Warren and Mowgli, who continue to hike, if you pay attention.
That's cute. It's left foot, right foot, repeat. That's what hiking is. No? Jack offers a very thorough article on resupplying. That is helpful for the AT hiker. The rest is about gear, when you are in the market, and where to hike. Never heard much about gear from most of the experienced ones. AT hiking alternatives, side trails, etc. LW seems to offer the most advice there, but many locals chime in with informed knowledge. Number of miles does not make one an expert about left foot, right foot, repeat. Local knowledge is more important.
Frosty, now that I think about it, you helped me last year when I asked about Moosilauke in May. You told me what to expect and nearly scared me half to death about the hike northbound down the steps and into Kinsman Notch. We went anyway, hiked in the rain through deep snow and wet ice and lived to hike another day. It was fun! Thanks for the help then.
But you can learn a lot by listening to guys like Warren and Mowgli, who continue to hike, if you pay attention.
Thanks Frosty. Here's what I learned in the last week. A "hell" is an area dominated by thick stands of rhododendron. I learned this after hiking the Jeffrey Hell Trail in the Citico Creek Wilderness on Thursday with my daughter. A Bigfoot sighting was reported on that trail at one point. :eek:
I also learned that sometimes, newbies can point out some amazing things on a trail. Like the young man who spotted two HUGE bears high up in a tree in the Fires Creek area on Friday evening during a torrential rain with huge flashes of lightening. I think I am pretty observant in the woods. But how this kid saw those bears under those conditions.... I'll never know. But I'm glad that he did.
I was wishing for an alcohol free section at Charlotte two weeks ago. I drink socially, but can;t for the live of me understand why someone would pay $100 for a ticket to an event they spend half the race in the bathroom draining the 2 cases of beer their obnoxious ass has drunk.
I can't for the life of me understand why someone would pay 100 bucks to watch cars drive in circles.
Lone Wolf
05-27-2008, 23:27
I can't for the life of me understand why someone would pay 100 bucks to watch cars drive in circles.
or spend nearly the same to watch NY baseball. boring ****
or spend nearly the same to watch NY baseball. boring ****
My girlfriend gets me 3 dollar tickets from work :)
Lots of folks think baseball is boring. There is so much going on when you involve strategy, matchups, situations, etc. It's not for everyone.
But how complex is driving in circles? (A serious question). And how is this a "sport"?
I can't for the life of me understand why someone would pay 100 bucks to watch cars drive in circles.
or spend nearly the same to watch NY baseball. boring ****
That's why Baskin Robbins offers 31 flavors.
The Old Fhart
05-27-2008, 23:31
TOF-"I have known Dave since we hiked thru the 100 mile 'wilderness' and we summited together in 1990. At one Trail Days he gave me the keys to his jeep so I could go get breakfast at the VFD. I have sat on the Porch with Dave and had a beer. Although I wasn't drinking at TD this year, I was offered drink at the hostel. All these facts are easily verified, ask around.
Sorry, Lone Wolf, as usual you are FOS."
Lone Wolf-"fart and jack are makin' stuff up:cool:"You know when LW is getting loaded because he starts spelling names wrong and forgets where the shift key is.:D
Everything I've said is easily verified. The summit photo of Dave and I on Katahdin has been hanging in the store for years, although I didn't check this year. Ask Dave about the loan of the Jeep and the drink we had on the porch one night during TD-I think you're capable of that simple task. As to drinking at the hostel, there were other guests there plus three ATC officials dropped by Friday night to check the place out and saw drinking there. I wasn't drinking at all as I previously stated.
Until you can prove any part of what I've said is wrong, you are a brown-eyed wonder.:D
I can't for the life of me understand why someone would pay 100 bucks to watch cars drive in circles.
or spend nearly the same to watch NY baseball. boring ****
As if hiking was the most exciting sport in the world. :rolleyes: Hmm, maybe that explains why we need these pi$$ing matches on a regular basis. Or why cyber-hiking is better than the real thing. :D
Lone Wolf
05-27-2008, 23:36
You know when LW is getting loaded because he starts spelling names wrong and forgets where the shift key is.:D
Everything I've said is easily verified. The summit photo of Dave and I on Katahdin has been hanging in the store for years, although I didn't check this year. Ask Dave about the loan of the Jeep and the drink we had on the porch one night during TD-I think you're capable of that simple task. As to drinking at the hostel, there were other guests there plus three ATC officials dropped by Friday night to check the place out and saw drinking there. I wasn't drinking at all as I previously stated.
Until you can prove any part of what I've said is wrong, you are a brown-eyed wonder.:D
**** you *******. you're an obvious kiss ass. an 18 year old photo means nothing. a jeep loan? BFD :rolleyes: drinking is not allowed at the hostel according to jeff 7 hours ago. i'm loaded on orange soda. who offered you a drink recently there?
The Old Fhart
05-27-2008, 23:45
Lone Wolf-"**** you *******. you're an obvious kiss ass."Ah, your true character is showing through!:D Unless you check it out like I suggested, as you would say, ****. :welcome
Lone Wolf
05-27-2008, 23:46
Ah, your true character is showing through!:D Unless you check it out like I suggested, as you would say, ****. :welcome
answer my ? who offered you alcohol at trail days at dave's place?
answer my ? who offered you alcohol at trail days at dave's place?
He's too busy changing the subject to answer your question. ;)
Lone Wolf
05-28-2008, 00:00
He's too busy changing the subject to answer your question. ;)
as always. i bet it wasn't one of the owners
OregonHiker
05-28-2008, 00:01
Post 117 was directed at me. The PM Jack sent me has been contradicted by the info posted by Lone Wolf today after speaking to the owners. I'd post the PM here that Jack sent me, but I wouldn't do that without Jack saying it was OK first. That seems like simple courtesy regarding private correspondence.
As Jack referenced it, please post
as always. i bet it wasn't one of the owners
maybe it was Jack. :eek:
OregonHiker
05-28-2008, 00:04
or spend nearly the same to watch NY baseball. boring ****
Damn straight...would be in Seattle again if the sox played on the weekend
The Old Fhart
05-28-2008, 00:19
Lone Wolf-"answer my ? who offered you alcohol at trail days at dave's place?"Even though you're not the sharpest pencil in the bunch, you can figure it out for yourself.
Mowgli-"He's too busy changing the subject to answer your question.;)"I never changed the subject, the DTs caused you to forget what the subject was. :eek:
Even though you're not the sharpest pencil in the bunch, you can figure it out for yourself.
I never changed the subject, the DTs caused you to forget what the subject was. :eek:
Just an observation, but are you taking to WD's book of not answering a direct question?
Jim Adams
05-28-2008, 00:22
But how complex is driving in circles? (A serious question). And how is this a "sport"?
Ernest Hemmingway made the statement that only bull fighting, mountain climbing and motor racing were sports. You put your life on the line to compete. Everything else is just a game.
They should give outfielders chairs!:-?
I love to play baseball. I love to watch little league ball but why is it that 18 kids can play the same game a full 9 innings an hour and 1/2 faster than major leagues can. It is a useless waste of time.
I'm not real into NASCAR but 200mph, even in a circle is more entertaining than watching the guy in the middle of the field spit tobacco for 3 hours.
You should see how much more exciting it gets when racers are allowed to turn right!
geek
RITBlake
05-28-2008, 00:24
Lots of folks think baseball is boring. There is so much going on when you involve strategy, matchups, situations, etc. It's not for everyone.
I'm not a racing fan of any sort but I'm guessing that racing fans would probably say the exact same thing about racing.
Ernest Hemmingway made the statement that only bull fighting, mountain climbing and motor racing were sports. You put your life on the line to compete. Everything else is just a game.
How about Russian roulette, a la "The Deer Hunter?" :cool: Or World Cup downhill ski racing. :eek: Or the 100-meter jump. :banana
I just love the camaraderie here on Whiteblaze. We're just a big, happy family.Oh, there is plenty of camaraderie here. There are plenty of super-fine folks on this website! You just have to know where to find them.:) Trying another thread would be a good start.:cool:
Lone Wolf
05-28-2008, 04:04
Even though you're not the sharpest pencil in the bunch, you can figure it out for yourself.
I never changed the subject, the DTs caused you to forget what the subject was. :eek:
no, i'm stupid. tell us who offered you a drink. quit playin games
warren doyle
05-28-2008, 06:37
Tim Man post #224 "That's cute. It's left foot, right foot, repeat. That's what hiking is. No? Jack offers a very thorough article on resupplying. That is helpful for the AT hiker. The rest is about gear, when you are in the market, and where to hike."
So hiking is just left foot, right foot,repeat; resupplying; gear; when you are in the market(?); and where to hike?
I disagree with what I consider your limited perspective of what hiking is. Perhaps your statement provides a reason for some of the content of your posts on this particular thread.
Tim Man post #224 "That's cute. It's left foot, right foot, repeat. That's what hiking is. No? Jack offers a very thorough article on resupplying. That is helpful for the AT hiker. The rest is about gear, when you are in the market, and where to hike."
So hiking is just left foot, right foot,repeat; resupplying; gear; when you are in the market(?); and where to hike?
I disagree with what I consider your limited perspective of what hiking is. Perhaps your statement provides a reason for some of the content of your posts on this particular thread.
Then enlighten me with your considered wisdom.
I never changed the subject, the DTs caused you to forget what the subject was. :eek:
I didn't have the DTs last night. I had one Sierra Nevada Pale Ale. Imagine that. I've discovered moderation at age 47. So much for your theories. :p
Lone Wolf
05-28-2008, 09:03
It's not a matter of asking the right person, Rick. The fact of the matter (and this has been pointed out quite a few times already) is that responsible social drinking by paying hostel guests is perfectly OK. (This has been explained around five times now, but I know Rick has reading problems).
The signs prohibiting alcohol are aimed at non-guests, primarily people staying at other locations like The Place Hostel, who come to Dave's Place to hang around and party. The posted signage is to discourage this, and it works. And this has been confirmed to me by the folks who run the hostel.
If you doubt any of this, Rick, I suggest you come to Damascus and look into this further, instead of speaking with such authority from Massachusetts. I think that the folks who run this place, and people who've been working and staying there the past few days might have a better idea of how the place is governed than you do.
the fact of the matter is responsible social drinking by paying guests is NOT OK whatsoever, says jeff the OWNER.
no need to come to damascus rick. i live here and got the truth from the person that runs the place.
this puts an end to this part of the thread. NO ALCOHOL ALLOWED at Dave's Place Hostel, in a cup, in a bottle, in the bathroom, in your room, in your tent.
end of discussion. next? :cool:
. NO ALCOHOL ALLOWED at Dave's Place Hostel, in a cup, in a bottle, in the bathroom, in your room, in your tent.
end of discussion. next? :cool:
Not in a box.
Not with a fox.
Not in a house.
Not with a mouse.
I could not, would not, on a boat.
I will not, will not, with a goat.
warren doyle
05-28-2008, 11:03
Looks like we have a communication problem here Damascus.
On to Pearisburg for some more bully-pulpiting and additional on-the-trail and cyber drama.
I also would like to announce that TJ has been removed from my "Holy Trinity" list for exercising remarkable restraint the last several months here on WB. Keep up those informative and conscientiuous updates about Baxter State Park
So now, it is just the "Demonizing Duo".