"Irresponsible" Gear Reductions

[paxtelprop]

It excites me to shed or consolidate unnecessary gear. I care less about the weight and more about the simplicity of carrying fewer things. This has been a slow process of trial and error. At this point, pretty much every piece of gear is essential and further reductions are not very easy. Anyways, here is my list of items that I'm flirting with leaving behind this summer. (keep in my mind I'm hiking in Canada and not the AT.) Do you have any items that are considered conventionally necessary items that you don't carry?

Water purification (iodine) - I read and heard arguments why water purification is not necessary. Some of water purification rituals seem a bit superstitious. (e.g. making sure that the threads of the water bottle are also treated with iodine- i likely swallow more water when swimming in a lake.) Giardia would suck but it's not going to kill you. (disclaimer- even when I treat the water, I always consider the source and think about the general health of the watershed. If I were on the AT, I would default to treating the water in non-wilderness areas.)

Compass - I have rarely used a compass as maps do just fine even for off-trail travel. Mountainous terrain is usually fairly easy to navigate even if forested. There are also other ways to tell the rough direction of travel. (sun, stars, moss, etc.)

flashlight/ headlight - I suffered through the pre-LED era when batteries had short lifespans. After running through all my batteries, I spent several weeks without a light. I found that my night vision was sufficient to get around and even cook. where i'm going, daylight is longer so i expect to cook in the light. in a pinch, my lighter can work as a source of light.

[River Runner]

Well they all sound irresponsible to me, even as an ultra-lghter, but you are the one who would have to live with the consequences. A bit of iodine, a small compass, and at least a photon light don't weigh much or take up much space and they can all be thrown in with other things (survival/first aid item kit comes to mind).

[notorius tic]

Dnt toos the mole skin or the Romaines.. There BEAR essentials.. I carry a small browning knife that has a compass,magnifing glass, tweezers, an 2 blades, it also has a hollow inside that alows me to put in 4 waterprof matches weighs nouthing on my hip.

[4eyedbuzzard]

A miniture compass weighs < 10 grams, 0.3 oz
A Petzl e+ headlamp weighs 27 grams, exactly 1 oz.
Water treatment tablets/drops weigh perhaps 3 oz.

4 oz total for light, compass, and water treatment - but its way too heavy. Slowing you down. Come to think of it,do you use those pinkie fingers or those little toes much? Have your appendix out yet? ...:eek:

There comes a time when UL fanaticism becomes absurd. You could clip your nails a little shorter and shave your body hair and probably save more.

[bigcranky]

You would seriously ditch a *compass* for wilderness travel in Canada? Maps are freaking useless if it's foggy or if you otherwise can't see to orient your map. It's all too easy to drop into the wrong drainage and end up miles from where you think you are -- getting the map properly oriented is crucial to staying alive.

As a titanium-card-carrying member of the ultralight weenie wannabes, even I agree with 4eyedbuzzard on this. My compass, water treatment, and Photon light weigh less than 4 oz total, and I wouldn't leave them behind even on a well-traveled trail like the AT.

[hopefulhiker]

I thru hiked using only two litttle push button LED lights.. but I would not go without a compass and some kind of water purification....

[4eyedbuzzard]

I thru hiked using only two litttle push button LED lights.. but I would not go without a compass and some kind of water purification....

Key words, you had a light - and actually a back up as well.

[NICKTHEGREEK]

No Light and water treatment in the Northern wilderness seem ok you have about total daylight anyway in the summer, and you can boil water if it looks bad.

Compass, never. Too easy to get turned around

I like the approach to eliminate useless/redundant items regardless of how little they weigh.

[jersey joe]

See, I carried a compass on my thru, but never used it, not once.
I can almost understand leaving it home and would say carrying maps is more important.

[bigcranky]

I have a tiny compass on my watch strap, and regularly check it while hiking. Mostly just to keep an eye on where I'm heading, not for specific map reference. I also find it useful when siting a campsite, so I know where the sun will come up.

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

Everyone has a different comfort level - and even that is not set in stone. If you choose to go without an item just be prepared to live the consequences of that and do not expect other hikers to supply your needs in anything except an emergency. Yes, we will gladly help when the unforeseeable happens - No, we will not gladly move out of the shelter on a warm, rainy night because we had the common sense to carry a tarp or tent and some gram weenie decided it wasn't necessary. Others' lack of planning does not constitute an emergency in my world. One evening of getting thoroughly drenched while trying to use a pack cover as a shelter will convince even the most hardcore gram weenie to carry at least a plastic tarp for shelter.

Very early US long distance hikers such as Louis & Clark and Davy Crockett hiked without many of the things we feel are essential today. They took 'essentials' we find laughable today. Times change

People change - I take far less than I considered essential in past. I've learned to get multiple uses from a single piece of equipment and skills like using the stars, sun and moss for navigation. (Before you berate me about not using a compass remember the amount of steel I have in hip and leg - I can no longer use a magnetic compass with any sort of accuracy.)

[karoberts]

Have you ever had Giardia? I haven't, but two weeks ago my two dogs got it from drinking untreated water.

If you ever see the effects first hand, you will never again question carrying water purification. Imagine projectile diarrhea (and vomiting) that lasts for weeks. Keep in mind that there is no perfect treatment either - just some medications that "kind of" work.

[PJ 2005]

You can reduce the weight of all those things to practically nothing...

-mini LED (keychain style)
-compasses only need to be the size of a quarter
-BLEACH in a dropper bottle will cut your purification from 3 oz to 1 oz. You won't need nearly as much I don't treat much, but if you're hurting for water and there's only a stagnant pool. I should mention that treating water with plain (unscented) bleach is recommended by the FDA in emergency situations, which means it's probably fine now and then. The method has also met the approval of my Dad, who is a hydrogeologist, and has been used by at least ten thru-hikers I know personally. I know, I know... bleach is scary. Try it.

[Jaybird]

I thru hiked using only two litttle push button LED lights.. but I would not go without a compass and some kind of water purification....



Yea, & a pack of DRIED APRICOTS to feed the Wild (tame) ponies in GRAYSON HIGHLANDS! (hopefully, you wont get your hand bitten by the critters...like I did!)

[Summit]

To me, it's not a game of "what can you do without?" It's the art of what do you want to do without and what do you not want to do without. Except for water (short term) and food (long term), there is nothing backpackers carry that we couldn't do without.

Use the grocery store mentality: when you enter the store and grab a cart, you're not obligated to buy everything in the store - take what you want, and leave the rest on the shelves for others who do want what you don't want! The EXACT SAME THING applies for the gear you choose to hike with! ;) :)

[tlbj6142]

There comes a time when UL fanaticism becomes absurd. It should be pointed out that he is thinking of leaving these items at home not to save weight, but to de-clutter/simplify. This is not an UL discussion.

[mudhead]

I also find it useful when siting a campsite, so I know where the sun will come up.

Damn straight.

[tlbj6142]

You would seriously ditch a *compass* for wilderness travel in Canada? Maps are freaking useless if it's foggy or if you otherwise can't see to orient your map. If you can't see (whiteout or dense fog) a compass doesn't help either as you can't see far enough to even use the bearing you can obtain from a compass ("Well at least I know that tree, 10' away, is north of my current position, where ever that is."). Only a GPS (combined with a map) would help in whiteout scenarios, assuming you could get a signal.

If your maps provide enough detail (1:100K or better), a compass (in open mountainous terrain) is probably unnecessary. In fact, I've read many find an altimeter more useful than a compass in those scenarios.

[jesse]

I consider those three items essential. Walking on marked trails, I have never "needed" a compass, but I take it anyway, it could easily become a needed item. A headlamp, No way am I going in the woods without one. Even on dayhikes. I use a Katadyne xtream water bottle/filter/purifier. It gives me peace of mind.

[4eyedbuzzard]

It should be pointed out that he is thinking of leaving these items at home not to save weight, but to de-clutter/simplify. This is not an UL discussion.

My bad. I stand corrected.

From a clutter and simplification standpoint I think all 3 items are necessary.

[take-a-knee]

I consider those three items essential. Walking on marked trails, I have never "needed" a compass, but I take it anyway, it could easily become a needed item. A headlamp, No way am I going in the woods without one. Even on dayhikes. I use a Katadyne xtream water bottle/filter/purifier. It gives me peace of mind.

That sort of mindset will cause all the SAR crews to disband from boredom. I suppose you also "foolishly" carry extra clothing to ward off hypothermia, and even some sort of raingear.

[Patrickjd9]

Key words, you had a light - and actually a back up as well.
My headlamp failed on my hike in the Smokies a few weeks ago. I had to resort to my cell phone as a light to get out of the shelter for a middle of the night pee:o.

I shut off the startup and shutdown jingles before I went to bed, though.

[lucky luke]

It excites me to shed or consolidate unnecessary gear. ...

hi,

then leave them at home! why seek assurance from others? its you that has to live with the consequences anyway. esp. if you go where nobody else is.

i climbed denali (with a hike in from talkeetna) without water purification, hiked the complete at without, was in pakistan climbing without, never used anything in the alps or all over europe, not in south america, not in mexico.

i generally travel with a medical kit that consists of a stock bottle of bach flower rescue remedy, and when its cold or very hot where i am going i take some vaseline and sun protection along. thats it for me.

i don´t carry a knife either. i do have a blade on my leatherman micra though.

i found an altimeter more usefull in critical weather ( if i had a good, ie. 1:25.000 or so map along and were on a trail in the map that is) situations than a compass, but i am in the mountains mostly. never had a problem to face my tent eastwards for first light in the morning. so i hardly ever carry a compass, except in hardcore expeditions, then i carrry both plus a good map.

climbed denali without a headlamp, did a traverse from kluane lake, can. to mccarthy, ak without a headlamp. i do use one in the alps, mostly for cooking in the dark, never for hiking. in winter i like the light in the tent. and yes, in winter i carry a book!

my choice. my very own problems, my very own way to deal with them. in 30 years of hard core hiking and climbing i never had to ask someone for help. i hope you never will,

happy trails
lucky luke

[The Solemates]

i'd probably be okay leaving all 3 at home, except i like to read at night, but you will have to answer that question yourself.

[berninbush]

I often don't use a flashlight/ head lamp on moonlit nights because it does ruin your night vision. On the other hand, I don't think I'd want to be in the woods with NO source of light. One thing we were taught at summer camp was that if you encounter a copperhead in your path at night, you can shine your flashlight in its eyes and stupify it while you get away. (It was strictly against camp rules to go anywhere without one after dark, as the camp population of copperheads was high.)

If you carry a cell phone with a backlit screen, it can serve as an emergency light. Not good if you want to read a book in your tent, though.

I never use a compass and I just carry water with me rather than collecting it on the way, but I only do short hikes.

[Summit]

If you carry a cell phone with a backlit screen, it can serve as an emergency light. Not good if you want to read a book in your tent, though.Must be talking about a standard cell phone. I love to read with my Windows Mobile cell phone - ebooks and Bible!

[berninbush]

Yeah, if you've got a cell phone with enough memory to hold e-books, that's a different story! I was thinking about using the light of a regular cell phone screen to try to read a conventional book. ;) Possible but not pleasant.

[superman]

I carried a little one bulb photon light on my AT hike. I never night hike...I just use it to go pee at night. It died in VA. I hiked on without carrying a light. One night I went out to pee and stepped on barbed wire on my way back to my tent. It went in deep and I hiked on it for two days until I did a town stop. Trail magic comes in many forms. There was an EMT doing day hikes and was staying at the same motel. I told him what had happened so he opened the trunk of his old junker car and he had a real big medical case in it. He treated my foot right there. He scrubbed it clean and bandaged it. It healed up fast after that. I bought a new photon light before going back out on the trail.
It's all extra stuff...unless you need it.:-?

[4eyedbuzzard]

...It's all extra stuff...unless you need it.:-?

:-? Yep.

[Summit]

"One man's trash is another man's treasure."

One hiker's unnecessary stuff is another hiker's needed stuff!

. . . and neither of them are wrong! :)

[SunnyWalker]

If you are going to be on a trail like the AT (it seems you are not from your remarks) a compass and appropriate maps are necessary. As for light and water purification-well this is not what I expected when you started this thread. I thought you were going to list things like a tent and opt for tarp, etc. If this is your thinking then why do you need matches or lighter? How about ditching sleeping bag, you can dig a little hole and role up in the leaves and such. Forget rain wear, make a jacket of bark, etc. You may want to ditch not needed items but don't become naive and make a mistake as the fellow did who died in alaska in the bus, very tragic.

[SunnyWalker]

Sorry, I meant to say IF you are going to be on a trail like the AT, map and compass are not (maybe) ncessary.

[envirodiver]

Well they all sound irresponsible to me, even as an ultra-lghter, but you are the one who would have to live with the consequences. A bit of iodine, a small compass, and at least a photon light don't weigh much or take up much space and they can all be thrown in with other things (survival/first aid item kit comes to mind).

I agree that the photon light might be a nice comprimise. So light and small you don't notice it. Not for me I have a light headlamp and it is (to me) a very essential piece of gear. I also like to have a compass, just for navigation, I agree with your concept regarding other means of determining direction, but if it's raining or overcast the sun (which is an excellent means) may not help and it also is not very accurate. It gives you a general idea, but not specifics to line up on a map. There are very very small compasses available.

I dropped a fair amount of weight from my first aid kit when I finally realized that I would probably not do any surgery on the trail and just dropped back to: stopping major blood loss, a few benadryl, a couple of immodium and wound care items for a few days.

[envirodiver]

hi,

then leave them at home! why seek assurance from others? its you that has to live with the consequences anyway. esp. if you go where nobody else is.

i climbed denali (with a hike in from talkeetna) without water purification, hiked the complete at without, was in pakistan climbing without, never used anything in the alps or all over europe, not in south america, not in mexico.

i generally travel with a medical kit that consists of a stock bottle of bach flower rescue remedy, and when its cold or very hot where i am going i take some vaseline and sun protection along. thats it for me.

i don´t carry a knife either. i do have a blade on my leatherman micra though.

i found an altimeter more usefull in critical weather ( if i had a good, ie. 1:25.000 or so map along and were on a trail in the map that is) situations than a compass, but i am in the mountains mostly. never had a problem to face my tent eastwards for first light in the morning. so i hardly ever carry a compass, except in hardcore expeditions, then i carrry both plus a good map.

climbed denali without a headlamp, did a traverse from kluane lake, can. to mccarthy, ak without a headlamp. i do use one in the alps, mostly for cooking in the dark, never for hiking. in winter i like the light in the tent. and yes, in winter i carry a book!

my choice. my very own problems, my very own way to deal with them. in 30 years of hard core hiking and climbing i never had to ask someone for help. i hope you never will,

happy trails
lucky luke

Your packing list is likely a well thought out group of items developed over a number of years and trips. You also seem to be a very experienced outdoorsman. As does paxtelprop. It don't sound like his 1st rodeo. People that have spent time in the outdoors can very well see where their expertise lies and carry gear accordingly. Newbies, are better off not trying to emulate experienced hikers lists IMO. They can get good ideas, but safety is an issue.

[lucky luke]

Your packing list is likely a well thought out group of items developed over a number of years and trips. You also seem to be a very experienced outdoorsman. As does paxtelprop. It don't sound like his 1st rodeo. People that have spent time in the outdoors can very well see where their expertise lies and carry gear accordingly. Newbies, are better off not trying to emulate experienced hikers lists IMO. They can get good ideas, but safety is an issue.

hi envirodiver,

just had a long post finished and got kicked. i hate not having dsl!

ok, short.

i like life on the edge, sharpening my senses to stay alive. maybe-s won´t get you any better, just more worried and f*** up.

if you want to know what you can do you have to go and try it. if someone wants to go w/o compass he will only know what its like after he tried it. you might get giardia even with purification, and it might be a pain in the ass if you are 3 weeks away from help. you might not get out without a compass, or you might, and then get run over by the car you are flagging down. life is full of surprises.

live like a tiger, live with the consequences. learn to know yourself, improve. keep risk at bay, but do try things to find your limits if you feel the urge to do so.

i got the impression praxtelprop is seeking his limits and thats why i gave him my 2 cents. its up to him to do the same, do a little bit of it, or to call it bull and do something else. his decissions, and his consequences. after all its his life and he can do with it whatever he wants. keep it, risk it, give it away.... or, hmmm what else?:-?

happy trails
lucky luke

[4eyedbuzzard]

Just FWIW, the original poster was the one who used, in quotations in the thread title, the word "Irresponsible" regarding gear reductions. So he knows and must expect the reasons most of us(and professionals and S&R people) would encourage carrying these items and knowing how to use them(esp. map and compass). I find the "clutter/simplify" reasoning absurd. A few zip locks solve any clutter problem and avoid an equipment yard sale when emptying a pack. The obsession with reducing gear carried for either weight or clutter reasons starts getting crazy at the point where basic safety and navigation gear is sacrificed to save a few ounces.

Hopefully any folks new to hiking/outdoors travel reading this thread will ignore any suggestion that going without these items and knowing how to use them(especially map and compass) is a reasonable, safe, or responsible option. Any time you leave a trailhead and get beyond the tourist attractions things can go wrong. Items like a light, map, compass, whistle, knife, space bag/blanket, fire starter, and small first aid kit can fit in a pants pocket. There's just no reason for not carrying them, even on a day hike. You'll probably never experience a true emergency and never need them. Statistics always refer to other people, and usually the ones who aren't prepared. The object is simply to carry a few ounces of gear and know how to use it, in order to lessen the chances of becoming one.

HYOH.

[Wise Old Owl]

I consider those three items essential. Walking on marked trails, I have never "needed" a compass, but I take it anyway, it could easily become a needed item. A headlamp, No way am I going in the woods without one. Even on dayhikes. I use a Katadyne xtream water bottle/filter/purifier. It gives me peace of mind.

Thank You!