View Full Version : AT Speed record?
Programbo
05-25-2008, 23:20
I was offline for over a month recently and didn`t go back and search everything I missed while I was gone so forgive me if this has been covered already:
AT Speedhike/run record attempt
On August 5th, Elite Ultrarunner, Karl Meltzer will attempt to break Andrew Thompson's thru hike record of 47 days, 13 hours, 31 minutes. Check out karlmeltzer.com for info on his BIO to prove his worthiness. Real time tracking every 10 minutes for the world to watch, along with prizes from Backcountry.com for guessing statistics on the attempt. Come watch Karl suffer while he makes his way to Springer Mt!
It has been discussed and he has visited WB. Search for posts by Speedgoat Karl. Here is a new website for tracking his progess on the AT...
http://whereskarl.com/
warren doyle
05-26-2008, 11:58
Jen Pharr, AT05; PCT06; LT07 (unsupported record holder-both men and women), will be attempting to set a women's record (with vehicle support from her husband) on the AT this summer. After getting married the first weekend in June, she will start SOBO on Katahdin between June 20-22 and hopes to reach Springer between 60-80 days.
She has all the necessary attributes (i.e. physical, mental, emotional) to accomplish it.
I wish her the best on this challenge she has chosen for herself (and her husband).
4eyedbuzzard
05-26-2008, 12:20
Both of them are going to have to beat Wild Cowboy's new unsupported 30 day record though right? :eek: :rolleyes:
Whatever was the final outcome on that guy anyway. He actually had a media article back earlier in the year - and then vanished from the public eye. I think he was a serious ultra type, even with his ridiculous plan, maybe even "a contender" for a more realistic record with some AT experience(I don't think anybody could do it without having a lot of on-AT experience).
Jen Pharr, AT05; PCT06; LT07 (unsupported record holder-both men and women), will be attempting to set a women's record (with vehicle support from her husband) on the AT this summer.
In an interesting coincidence, I saw Jen's entries in a logbook while hiking the Bibbulmun Track. She did it in 22 days which I think is the unsupported record male or female! Good luck to her and congrats on the wedding!
I wish her the best on this challenge she has chosen for herself (and her husband).
I do too. I remember her poem. Sometimes people who take some of the most flack here post or otherwise contribute to the best of what I see on my screen.:-?
Jan LiteShoe
06-22-2008, 14:12
Here is an article on her quest:
http://www.blueridgenow.com/article/20080622/NEWS/806220326/1018/SERVICES03/NEWS/Pharr_journeys_to_honor_those_slain
CrumbSnatcher
06-22-2008, 15:32
good luck to both karl & jen. hope all goes well, and you accomplish what you seek. i look forward to following the updates. and to hiking my own endurance hike next year...
double d
06-22-2008, 17:45
As Benton MacKaye invisioned it in 1921, the AT is for renewal, for hiking and as a time away from the fast paced consumer society we live in. The AT was created for hiking and if one's only goal is to beat an unofficial time of completeing the trail, whats the point? I certainly believe in "hike your own hike", but "run your own run" seems misguided to me. Maybe in the future, we can get the AT to be some kind of international race!!!!! I can see it now,"The 2022 AT Miller Lite 2,174 mile ultra marathon race is brought to you by ESPN and we will be back after these 15 minutes of t.v.ads"!
double d -- I've voiced this complaint repeatedly. Suffice to say, our opinion appears to be the minority opinion on WhiteBlaze. I'll be interested in the follow-up, but I think I can guess how it will go.
CrumbSnatcher
06-22-2008, 18:02
As Benton MacKaye invisioned it in 1921, the AT is for renewal, for hiking and as a time away from the fast paced consumer society we live in. The AT was created for hiking and if one's only goal is to beat an unofficial time of completeing the trail, whats the point? I certainly believe in "hike your own hike", but "run your own run" seems misguided to me. Maybe in the future, we can get the AT to be some kind of international race!!!!! I can see it now,"The 2022 AT Miller Lite 2,174 mile ultra marathon race is brought to you by ESPN and we will be back after these 15 minutes of t.v.ads"!
this might be more to your liking? ward leonard unsupported 60.5 days
Maybe in the future, we can get the AT to be some kind of international race!!!!! I can see it now,"The 2022 AT Miller Lite 2,174 mile ultra marathon race is brought to you by ESPN and we will be back after these 15 minutes of t.v.ads"!
That would require a special use permit, and it would never be approved. In other words, your attempt to make a point failed miserably.
When I thru-hiked in 2000, there was always somebody that was hiking slower than me that insisted I couldn't be experiencing the trail properly since I was hiking 20 MPD. Of course, nothing could be farther form the truth.
Maybe the speed hikers/runners could band together and complain about the slow hikers that tend to build fires every night on the trail. Of course, folks who build fires regularly are fair more impactful on the trail than any speed runner. Why don't we complain about them? Or why don't we just hike our own hikes?
CrumbSnatcher
06-22-2008, 18:08
double d -- I've voiced this complaint repeatedly. Suffice to say, our opinion appears to be the minority opinion on WhiteBlaze. I'll be interested in the follow-up, but I think I can guess how it will go.
minority opionion or not,i like to hear them all.
4eyedbuzzard
06-22-2008, 18:11
Personally, it sure ain't for me, "but it's a free country" (kinda), and they have as much right to travel on the trail as the rest of us do to travel more slowly on it. If somebody wants to speed hike the AT or any other trail and burn thousand of dollars in gasoline on the support crew vehicles, I suppose its their choice. There's always going to be people who take everything to extremes, create competions where none historically existed, etc.
CrumbSnatcher
06-22-2008, 18:12
That would require a special use permit, and it would never be approved. In other words, your attempt to make a point failed miserably.
When I thru-hiked in 2000, there was always somebody that was hiking slower than me that insisted I couldn't be experiencing the trail properly since I was hiking 20 MPD. Of course, nothing could be farther form the truth.
Maybe the speed hikers/runners could band together and complain about the slow hikers that tend to build fires every night on the trail. Of course, folks who build fires regularly are fair more impactful on the trail than any speed runner. Why don't we complain about them? Or why don't we just hike our own hikes? i like slow hikes and very fast ones too! i might be enjoying myself taking my time or pushing myself. run,hike,walk or crawl. 47 days or 470 the only part i don't care for is the support team.(no big deal but,to me it should be a personal thing,not a group thing) but what the hell HYOH
CrumbSnatcher
06-22-2008, 18:45
Personally, it sure ain't for me, "but it's a free country" (kinda), and they have as much right to travel on the trail as the rest of us do to travel more slowly on it. If somebody wants to speed hike the AT or any other trail and burn thousand of dollars in gasoline on the support crew vehicles, I suppose its their choice. There's always going to be people who take everything to extremes, create competions where none historically existed, etc.
4eyedbuzzard,how much you think the extra cost would be for the support team and gas? normal thru2-5,000$
double d
06-22-2008, 20:08
MOWGLI, as you well know, the A.T. was not designed as a long distance ultra-runners marathon race, it was designed as a footpath to wilderness areas (as Benton MacKaye invisioned it). BTW: The motto is "hike your own hike" not "ultra run your own ultra run". Have them go break the Boston Marathon time record, now that will impress me. With regards to hikers telling you 20 mpd is too fast, thats their problem, not yours, you certainly experienced the trail at your own hiking pace and thats all that matters. "Keep your nose to the wind and your eyes to the skyline".
MOWGLI, as you well know, the A.T. was not designed as a long distance ultra-runners marathon race....
Nor was it designed to be thru-hiked.
Just how, exactly, does a speed hike diminish the AT or your ability to experience it?
double d
06-22-2008, 20:33
MOWGLI: Benton MacKaye clearly and certainly designed the A.T. as a long hiking trail that one could hike from north to south (as you well know, not sure why you disagree with me on this point), he discussed this very issue as early as his 1921 journal article (Benton writes that one could walk/hike from N.H. to Ga. to escape the basic industrial life). The A.T. is a footpath to the Appalachian Mts., not for some hypre modern ultra-runners to race the trail in 40 days or less. Just my opinion.
Let me add this... The AT is a footpath. As long as users are on foot, I don't care if they carry a pack, or go barefoot, or run, or walk, or wear dress shoes, or day hike, or section hike, or thru-hike, or speed hike. As long as they are respectful of the trail and the other visitors.
I used to subscribe to the notion that the AT should not be a racetrack, but then I realized that the speed hike is simply a reflection of the very human quest to conquer the universe. While some may say the AT should not be considered as something to be conquered in terms of speed, every one who hikes the it is trying to conquer the AT in their own way. Speed is simply another way. And I would not stand in the way of any one's desire to get from point A to point B faster than the previous record holder. This same thought process has led to many positive inventions and is at the core of our species desire for continual progress. Sure, an AT speed hike is unlikely to yield any immediate benefit to humans, but it does not harm progress either. Picking and choosing which harmless progress indicators should be pursued would not only stifle human nature, it goes against our core beliefs regarding freedom of choice.
fiddlehead
06-22-2008, 22:06
4eyedbuzzard,how much you think the extra cost would be for the support team and gas? normal thru2-5,000$
In 2001/2002, we attempted a supported hike of the triple crown with a van to follow us around. We ended up doing the AT, CDT and half of the PCT. Our total cost for 2 people hiking was $20k. If you break that down per person, per trail, it comes to what? about $4k each trail. ABout the same really. MOst of our money was spent on food and gas for the truck. Of course, back then, gas was a hell of a lot cheaper, aye? (we also provided the food and expenses for our drivers. we used 38 different people but did not pay their way out to us or back home)
We only used hotel rooms about 8 times in the 310 days and rarely ate out.
We didn't lose any weight as we ate good (1 doz eggs and 1 lb of bacon most mornings)
Anyway, hope that answers your question.
double d
06-22-2008, 22:23
MOWGLI, how respectful is one to the A.T. when all they care about is some speed record? Believe me MOWGLI, I'm not trying to agrue with you, but it seems to me that this idea of breaking some record is foolish. Lets not forget that Earl Shaffer walked the A.T. to see the beauty around him after losing his childhood friend (from York, Pa) during WWII, not to become the first person to have his eqo stroked as the first to thru hike the A.T. So.....if Karl the ultra-runner runs the A.T.in 40+some hours this summer, then some other ultra runner is going to try and break his "record" next summer.
4eyedbuzzard
06-22-2008, 22:37
4eyedbuzzard,how much you think the extra cost would be for the support team and gas? normal thru2-5,000$
Just an inexperienced guess for converstation sake Crumb - the resident canine bit my head off last time I commented on speed hiking...:eek:
I think it depends. One or two vehicles, car or RV, one or two or more people crew, local crews or more dedicated for entire hike? Two vehicles leapfrogging for an entire hike could go 5 to 6K miles each portal to portal, say $2500 in fuel alone, figure $5K+ with wear and tear real vehicle costs. Food and misc for crew of 2 plus 1 hiker for roughly 60 days, I'd say about $3K to $4K.
So I'd say about $10K +/- or so without too many frills. Through in a really nice RV, or other stuff and who knows. Then again, could be done cheaper also. I'd say double to triple the cost of a traditional thru depending on how elaborate it got.
Again, just an inexperienced guess. LW can probably give you some real world numbers I would think.
CrumbSnatcher
06-22-2008, 22:40
In 2001/2002, we attempted a supported hike of the triple crown with a van to follow us around. We ended up doing the AT, CDT and half of the PCT. Our total cost for 2 people hiking was $20k. If you break that down per person, per trail, it comes to what? about $4k each trail. ABout the same really. MOst of our money was spent on food and gas for the truck. Of course, back then, gas was a hell of a lot cheaper, aye? (we also provided the food and expenses for our drivers. we used 38 different people but did not pay their way out to us or back home)
We only used hotel rooms about 8 times in the 310 days and rarely ate out.
We didn't lose any weight as we ate good (1 doz eggs and 1 lb of bacon most mornings)
Anyway, hope that answers your question.
REALLY LIVIN *a film by teamtriple crown added this to my collection awhile ago...
Just an inexperienced guess for converstation sake Crumb - the resident canine bit my head off last time I commented on speed hiking...:eek:
I think it depends. One or two vehicles, car or RV, one or two or more people crew, local crews or more dedicated for entire hike? Two vehicles leapfrogging for an entire hike could go 5 to 6K miles each portal to portal, say $2500 in fuel alone, figure $5K+ with wear and tear real vehicle costs. Food and misc for crew of 2 plus 1 hiker for roughly 60 days, I'd say about $3K to $4K.
So I'd say about $10K +/- or so without too many frills. Through in a really nice RV, or other stuff and who knows. Then again, could be done cheaper also. I'd say double to triple the cost of a traditional thru depending on how elaborate it got.
Again, just an inexperienced guess. LW can probably give you some real world numbers I would think.
Or you could do it the SpeedGoat Karl way and be sponsored. :)
I used to subscribe to the notion that the AT should not be a racetrack, but then I realized that the speed hike is simply a reflection of the very human quest to conquer the universe.
I guess it's the "conquer" thing that puts me off. I believe it's gotten us into a lot of trouble in a lot of ways. And I think Benton was asking us, in effect, to knock it off, for just a bit.
We are here on earth to fart around.
Don't let anybody tell you any different.
- Kurt Vonnegut
double d
06-22-2008, 22:51
"So It Goes".
I guess it's the "conquer" thing that puts me off. I believe it's gotten us into a lot of trouble in a lot of ways. And I think Benton was asking us, in effect, to knock it off, for just a bit.
We are here on earth to fart around.
Don't let anybody tell you any different.
- Kurt Vonnegut
I was sure you would jump on the "conquer" thing. Thank you for not disappointing. :) I added the rest to complete the thought, just for you. Anything less than quoting my entire post is taking what I wanted to convey totally out of context.
Getting past any nonsense you may want to toss back, what are you trying to say anyway? People should "knock it off" or continue to "fart around"? :-?
4eyedbuzzard
06-22-2008, 23:01
If people stopped farting around most modern economies would crumble.
Getting past any nonsense you may want to toss back...
What a fine invitation to a polite and enlightened discussion. I think I'll pass.
CrumbSnatcher
06-22-2008, 23:05
"So It Goes".
its better to burn out than to fade away-neil young, thats sweet, thats my motto for my sub-three month hike next year. carrying my pack the whole way. not hurting anyone or the trail. just pushing myself competition within. not getting any younger and already having done the slower more social type hikes. freedom hiking from miss janet,zero weeks, white blaze only turned blue blaze now and then. love volunteer work, member of white blaze,life member aldha and atc i love to give back to the trail and i look forward to the trail giving back to me a great challenge. you still see everything on a endurance hike just a little faster. on a run i'd probably be looking at my feet all the time. love your avatar
What a fine invitation to a polite and enlightened discussion. I think I'll pass.
Pardon my choice of words. I simply wanted to avoid sparring over form and get to the substance. Seriously, I am interested in hearing what you might want to add without taking my initial post out of context. :)
TM, I don't expect to convince you or anyone else. I would refer you to the text of the famous 1921 MacKaye article that launched the AT. (Link (http://www.fred.net/kathy/at/mackaye.html)) It seems to me that competition and conquest was the last thing that MacKaye wanted to have happen.
The results achievable in the camp and scouting life are common knowledge to all who have passed beyond the tenderest age therein. The camp community is a sanctuary and a refuge from the scramble of every-day worldly commercial life. It is in essence a retreat from profit. Cooperation replaces antagonism, trust replaces suspicion, emulation replaces competition. An Appalachian trail, with its camps, communities, and spheres of influence along the skyline, should, with reasonably good management, accomplish these achievements. And they possess within them the elements of a deep dramatic appeal.
Indeed the lure of the scouting life can be made the most formidable enemy of the lure of militarism (a thing with which this country is menaced along with all others). It comes the nearest perhaps, of things thus far projected, to supplying what Professor James once called a "moral equivalent of war." It appeals to the primal instincts of a fighting heroism, of volunteer service and of work in a common cause.
Terrapin, Yeah I know the quote. But laying down any path is laying down a challenge that goes against human nature to avoid trying to set a record on. Setting records is also "a primal instinct".
4eyedbuzzard
06-22-2008, 23:57
If BM and heirs owned the land, he/they might have some say. But it's built on completely on public land and maintained at public cost. The public has a right to put their feet on it at whatever pace they choose.
Now if there were a big long swimming pool the AT went by, and the speed hikers were running with scissors, after chowing down on lunch, we might have a case at scolding them.
Nothing about primal instinct in my MacKaye quote. I'm sorry, I see nothing in the MacKaye article that hints at the AT being a venue for competitive sport or record-setting. What part of
Cooperation replaces antagonism, trust replaces suspicion, emulation replaces competition
is so hard to understand? I'll say it one more time: I don't expect to convince you or anyone else. There aren't many who see it my way. So it goes. ;)
Jack Tarlin
06-23-2008, 00:04
There was absolutely nothing in MacKaye's article that hints at the A.T. being an appropriate venue for thru-hiking either, Terrapin, and the phenomena of thru-hiking was also once considered a "stunt." :-?
As has been said before, several of BM's originals "designs" for the AT never came about. Oftentimes, creaters have one notion in mind and others expand on that notion and take it to unanticipated areas. Unfortunately, BM cannot tell us how he feels about where his AT notion has developed over time.
It appeals to the primal instincts of a fighting heroism, of volunteer service and of work in a common cause.
I was drawing "primal instinct" from this. Or were these your words?
is so hard to understand? I'll say it one more time: I don't expect to convince you or anyone else. There aren't many who see it my way. So it goes. ;)
For someone who didn't like how I worded an earlier post, this comes across a little funny. :)
If BM and heirs owned the land, he/they might have some say. But it's built on completely on public land and maintained at public cost. The public has a right to put their feet on it at whatever pace they choose.
Of course. It's a free country, and all that. Where would we be without the endless pursuit of bigger, better, faster... ;) :D :-?
::: flags waving, squadron of bombers flying in formation overhead :::
We'd like to express our appreciation to the United States Marines, the British Commonwealth Occupation Forces, the French Legume and the Hong Kong Fireworks Company, without whom all of this would not have been necessary.
4eyedbuzzard
06-23-2008, 00:19
Why is MacKaye's vision, which was in many ways unfulfilled, even an issue? So a few people want to run instead of hike on the AT. What's the big deal. They're pretty few and far between. They're around the bend and out of sight before you can say, "to walk, to see, to see what you see"... or "I'd give an award for those that took the longest."
Their loss, not yours.
For someone who didn't like how I worded an earlier post, this comes across a little funny. :)
Thing is, this discussion won't ever be resolved. Neither side will ever convince the other. Kinda like religion. So let's just let it be, OK?
Some like to say HYOH or whatnot. Then say, hike the way they think BM wanted them to hike. Then go out of their way to make many other's variation of a hike out to be something evil. Strange. :-?
Thing is, this discussion won't ever be resolved. Neither side will ever convince the other. Kinda like religion. So let's just let it be, OK?
Sure, but I did change "sides" along the way. Night. :cool:
I was drawing "primal instinct" from this. Or were these your words?
My mistake, I just failed to notice those words. This is my last post on this subject. You know where I stand, I know where you stand. Further discussion would be pointless.
double d
06-23-2008, 00:37
4 eyedbuzzard, in my opinion, there seems to be a trend (that is just beginning, IMHO) that long distance endurance athletes are now viewing America's hiking trails as new places for their competition/races to set "records" and get their ego stroked by sports journalist writing long articles about them. People like you, CrumbSnather and of course many, many others are devoted to the trail because of respect, love, volunteerism, ect..ect.., and that is the basic meaning of why the A.T. (and of course many other national trails) were created for, the love of the trail. I mention BM because of his original intention of the A.T., as a place of solitude, leisure, ect..ect... People like Earl Shaffer, Grandma and millions of hikers hike for alot of reasons, but it isn't to set records, especially for speed. Again, just my opinion and by no means am I trying to disrespect others who disagree with me.
My mistake, I just failed to notice those words. This is my last post on this subject. You know where I stand, I know where you stand. Further discussion would be pointless.
What discussion? You posted an antique quote, didn't even read the quote yourself, and added no thoughts of your own. Too funny. :)
What discussion? You posted an antique quote, didn't even read the quote yourself, and added no thoughts of your own. Too funny. :)
You can't even refrain from making the thread a competition. ;)
fiddlehead
06-23-2008, 00:52
Did you ever wonder if speed hikers do it because otherwise they'd be bored hiking the normal pace? you know, they like to be out in the woods but also like to test and push themselves.
Doesn't matter if some of you don't approve. That's not going to stop people from hiking the trail as fast or as slow as they like. And if someone wants to keep a record of the fastest (or slowest) I don't see any problem with that.
4eyedbuzzard
06-23-2008, 01:05
Well, I sure hope it doesn't turn into an X games ESPN bulls**t free for all. I really don't see the market being big enough to support events the scale of which would ruin the trail though. Perhaps if it come to that there may have to be legislation enacted restricting organized competitions to protect the trail. I don't think you can cross that bridge until it actually materializes though.
This is just my opinion. I'm no record setter, thats for sure. Most people pass me, even the slow ones.
I think the reason people use the AT, is because that is a long and hard pathway. Also, it wouldn't take long to get arrested trying to speed hike the length of I-80 or I-95.
I don't horse back ride, but I think it would sure be cool if riders had trails that went 2,000 miles across the USA.
I don't mountain bike, either. I think the same would be great for those riders too, if they had trails that went for thousands of miles like the AT, CDT, PCT....
Those of us that enjoy backpacking are very fortunate to have trails already avaible to us. Thanks to everybody who puts time or money into these trails for us to enjoy.
Good luck to all those trying to break records, as a former competitive athlete I'm quite jealous myself. As for the nay-sayers, ignore them.
The Old Fhart
06-23-2008, 07:41
Double D-"...how respectful is one to the A.T. when all they care about is some speed record? "The two aren't related in any way whatsoever. If you check all the threads about hikers who have 'disrespected' the trail (trashed hostels, stole services, etc.), you will not find any of the speed hikers mentioned at all. While I consider a speed hike pointless,and egocentric, that describes a 'regular' thru hike just as well. As long as they hike the trail legally, there is no problem. That speed hikers might 'disrespect' your idea of what you want the trail to be, and that could be an issue for you, it isn't for others and certainly not for maintainers or overseers of the trail.
As to being out of step with MacKaye's original vision of the trail, almost everything that happens on the trail today is out of step with that vision as well. The trail has evolved from the original concept into what it is today and little of the original concept remains.
Jason of the Woods
06-23-2008, 07:50
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=37217
I tried before.:)
The two aren't related in any way whatsoever. If you check all the threads about hikers who have 'disrespected' the trail (trashed hostels, stole services, etc.), you will not find any of the speed hikers mentioned at all. While I consider a speed hike pointless,and egocentric, that describes a 'regular' thru hike just as well. As long as they hike the trail legally, there is no problem. That speed hikers might 'disrespect' your idea of what you want the trail to be, and that could be an issue for you, it isn't for others and certainly not for maintainers or overseers of the trail.
As to being out of step with MacKaye's original vision of the trail, almost everything that happens on the trail today is out of step with that vision as well. The trail has evolved from the original concept into what it is today and little of the original concept remains.
Well said.
This is just my opinion. I'm no record setter, thats for sure. Most people pass me, even the slow ones.
I think the reason people use the AT, is because that is a long and hard pathway. Also, it wouldn't take long to get arrested trying to speed hike the length of I-80 or I-95.
I don't horse back ride, but I think it would sure be cool if riders had trails that went 2,000 miles across the USA.
I don't mountain bike, either. I think the same would be great for those riders too, if they had trails that went for thousands of miles like the AT, CDT, PCT....
Those of us that enjoy backpacking are very fortunate to have trails already avaible to us. Thanks to everybody who puts time or money into these trails for us to enjoy.
PCT allows horses and riders.
You can't even refrain from making the thread a competition. ;)
That's really very funny, especially coming from you. :D
By the way, you lose. :p
MOWGLI, how respectful is one to the A.T. when all they care about is some speed record?
You're assuming a lot if you assume all Karl (or any other trail runner) only cares about records. It's actually quite an elitist position. As if only you understand what the AT and being in the woods means.
So.....if Karl the ultra-runner runs the A.T.in 40+some hours this summer, then some other ultra runner is going to try and break his "record" next summer.
Yeah. So what?
So, what is the max. speed and max. amount of miles a person can do (in a day) on the AT before they are no longer a real hiker and/or no longer meet Mackaye's vision?
I am just curious.
4eyedbuzzard
06-23-2008, 09:12
Obviously, just as one shall not hike so slowly as to draw the attention of others by their pace, neither shall one hike so speedily as to draw their attention. It just isn't proper you understand.
I thought the HHCH had settled this.:rolleyes:
I thought the HHCH had settled this.:rolleyes:
Many people think this thought.
Now, if we can establish the exact amount of max. MPH and max MPD, all will be well on the AT.
Many people think this thought.
Now, if we can establish the exact amount of max. MPH and max MPD, all will be well on the AT.
I think Wild Cowboy helped us understand what the max MPD cannot be. :)
4eyedbuzzard
06-23-2008, 09:26
1 mph minimum, 3 mph maximum, no less than 4 mpd, no more than 30 mpd. Those who can't comply are either slackers or in too much of a GD hurry to reasonably enjoy themselves. Either way they are annoying to others and ruining their hiking experience. This is pretty easy. I really don't see why there is all this controversy. :rolleyes:
jersey joe
06-23-2008, 11:39
I have never heard someone who hikes fast or many miles per day make a point about saying anything negative about someone who hikes slow or does minimal miles per day...This is a one way street.
I have never heard someone who hikes fast or many miles per day make a point about saying anything negative about someone who hikes slow or does minimal miles per day...This is a one way street.
I also think we should set a min. weight one has to carry as well.
The rules of back country travel on foot are thus going to be established:
MAX miles per day limit
MAX speed limit while traveling on foot
MIN weight carried
If you exceed the speed and MPD limit, and do not carry a min amount of weight, you are obviously not adhering to the true vision of the trail.
When my eagerly anticipated book comes out (HIKE MY HIKE, DAMN IT!), I hope to eliminate the silly diversity of opinions that are held and hope to establish the one, true and correct way of back country travel on foot.
Now, if those who adhere to the true vision of the trail could please tell me the MAX MPD and MAX SPEED allowed (along with MIN carry weight), life would be easier.
Though I am writing the book, I am just the pen that writes down the rules.
Alas, I do not know the one, true and correct way of hiking and adhering to a vision; I merely report it. Perhaps others who do know the one, true and correct way of back country travel on foot may fill in the information for me?
double d
06-23-2008, 12:39
My point and opinion isn't about min. and max miles hiked per day, who cares. What I did write is what is the point of someone ultra-running/hiking the A.T. with the only intent of breaking some "time record"? Maybe it misses the point of the A.T. as it was intended by those who founded the trail, in my opinion.
The Old Fhart
06-23-2008, 12:58
Double D-"My point and opinion isn't about min. and max miles hiked per day, who cares. What I did write is what is the point of someone ultra-running/hiking the A.T. with the only intent of breaking some stupid "time record"? Kinda misses the point of the A.T. as it was intended by those who founded the trail...."First you say: "My point and opinion isn't about min. and max miles hiked per day, who cares" then you contradict what you just said by complaining about: "...someone ultra-running/hiking the A.T. with the only intent of breaking some stupid "time record"".:-? Either you care or you don't care, but you can't have it both ways. The satirical comments about MPD, MPH, weight, etc., were just pointing out the irony of that position.;)
Also it has been pointed out by several people that the 'original intent' or vision of the A.T. has morphed over the decades. Thru hiking was never one of the original goals and probably would have been laughed at by the founders as a stunt.
Also it has been pointed out by several people that the 'original intent'
To walk, to see, to see what you see.
-B. MacKaye
Everything else are just persnickety details.
Now..if we do establish the max speed and max MPD a person can travel on foot we can really make this simple for all.....
Alligator
06-23-2008, 13:20
The only time I know how fast I am going is when I catch up to my headlamp:confused:. Then I know I need to lay off the Snickers Charged.
warren doyle
06-23-2008, 13:22
I respect the sincere long distance endurance record holders and record attemptors.
For about 25 years now, starting with Dan Bruce (Wingfoot), I have heard fears of the AT turning into a racetrack with corporate sponsors. This hasn't happened yet and it won't because the long distance trail endurance record process is too slow, too long and not glamorous enough for media/corporate consumption.
Instead, in the last 25 years, there has been more corporate sponsorship of the ATC and Damascus Trail Days than endurance record attempts.
It appears to me that in general the long distance trail endurance walkers/runners are more open-minded about various hiking styles/options than some WB posters are.
To me, some of the only true amateur athletes today are the long distance trail endurance walkers/runners.
There will two on the AT this summer.
Two Speed
06-23-2008, 13:24
. . . Though I am writing the book, I am just the pen that writes down the rules. . . Tool. :cool:
Also it has been pointed out by several people that the 'original intent' or vision of the A.T. has morphed over the decades. Thru hiking was never one of the original goals and probably would have been laughed at by the founders as a stunt.
That is true, but is it necessary to make a mockery of the whole thing? (The original intent, that is.)
There are unlimited, essentially infinite venues for competition in America. Our lives are one big competition, from birth to death. We compete in our schools, our jobs, on our roads, on TV game and "reality" shows, and in thousands of contrived games, events and leagues.
I can only speak for myself, but for me, the AT is a respite from all that BS. You may say that speed hikers do what they do for the self-challenge, that it's just the individual against his/her limits. But if that were strictly true, we would not be having this discussion. I think it's meaningful that ATC doesn't recognize speed hiking records.
That is true, but is it necessary to make a mockery of the whole thing? (The original intent, that is.)
There are unlimited, essentially infinite venues for competition in America. Our lives are one big competition, from birth to death. We compete in our schools, our jobs, on our roads, on TV game and "reality" shows, and in thousands of contrived games, events and leagues.
I can only speak for myself, but for me, the AT is a respite from all that BS. You may say that speed hikers do what they do for the self-challenge, that it's just the individual against his/her limits. But if that were strictly true, we would not be having this discussion. I think it's meaningful that ATC doesn't recognize speed hiking records.
Be honest. It just upsets you that someone could do in 46 days - what took you 17+ years to accomplish. :D
I can only speak for myself, but for me, the AT is a respite from all that BS.
..."but for me"...correct, for you, and for me too. I am not out to set any records anywhere, but why limit those who want to. The AT is no different than any other venue. If they build it, they will come. It is simply a matter of being open to other's pursuits, just as the record holders are open to yours.
Nice post Warren.
Tool. :cool:
I am hesitant to say "I am a tool". Ex-girlfriends may disagree...
Be honest. It just upsets you that someone could do in 46 days - what took you 17+ years to accomplish. :D
Not all, Mowgli. I accept my limitations. I'm satisfied with my "accomplishment," for what it's worth. (That, plus a MetroCard, will get me a ride on the subway...)
I'd have preferred simply not knowing about (or constantly hearing about) the speedsters.
I thought I knew a thing or two about the AT, but I never knew that "speed hiking" existed until I met Ward Leonard on my 1990 thru-hiking attempt. Suffice to say it was an unpleasant encounter, in a number of ways. I wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then. ;)
Two Speed
06-23-2008, 13:42
I am hesitant to say "I am a tool". Ex-girlfriends may disagree...Well, ex-gf's can be kinda viscous, but I think they meant you are a tool, not that you have one. Anyway, that's what my last one said about me. :eek:
I never knew that "speed hiking" existed until I met Ward Leonard on my 1990 thru-hiking attempt. Suffice to say it was an unpleasant encounter, in a number of ways. I wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then. ;)
PTSD from meeting Ward? :eek: :rolleyes:
Well, ex-gf's can be kinda viscous, but I think they meant you are a tool, not that you have one. Anyway, that's what my last one said about me. :eek:
Mags is the leatherman of tools. He's very helpful & versatile. :sun
Two Speed
06-23-2008, 13:46
Must . . . resist . . . wisecrack about leather and tools . . . must resist . . . ;)
The Old Fhart
06-23-2008, 13:48
_terrapin_"That is true, but is it necessary to make a mockery of the whole thing? (The original intent, that is.)"That comment requires some explanation for clarity sake. Who is making a 'mockery of the whole thing'? I go out there "to walk, to see and to see what I see", as do others, but their vision and experience is, or could be, far different than mine. It is existential phenomenological psychology at work where each of the blind men describes the elephant as an entirely different animal.:-?
Oh, and I think I should get the prize for the best Scrabble word of the thread!;)
Must . . . resist . . . wisecrack about leather and tools . . . must resist . . . ;)
I know there is a POLITICS forum. I did not realize there was a forum on this site for ah, er..um.."Special Interests".
I'm gonna shut up now...
Alligator
06-23-2008, 13:53
Sorry phenomenological is too long to fit on a standard Scrabble board. Existential might get you big points for the x:D.
Google Images scrabble for a not so fun visual treat.
Speedgoat Karl
06-23-2008, 19:48
I guess I'll chime in for a moment. I'm the guy who's gonna go run/hike the AT. It's not a real challenge of breaking the record. I get to do it supported. Maybe not the way the "old school" envisioned the trail, but welcome to the real world. People out here do what they want to do. I want to cover the AT as fast as I can...to challenge myself and see if winning 100's is not the only thing I do best. Why should I not try and raise the bar. It's only for myself, noone else
As far as impact, think about it. I won't be camping, I have a longer stride (less footsteps). I'm gonna pick up some of that nasty garbage on the trail from local users of the trail. (I'm sure it's not hikers that create the garbage, that's not where I"m going with this).
What I like so much about my run is the public....via the internet will be able to watch me real time. Some will find it offensive, many will find it intriging and interesting to watch me suffer....and for the Ultra world to see if I can even do it.
I won't get in your way, if you are in need of desperate help, I'll help you. I am not an elitist who wants a "race" on the AT. That will never happen, I just want to experience something I have never experience.....and that's delerium for 47 days. 100 mile races don't get me to that point. This brutal trail will.
To the naysayers on the attempt: Enjoy the trail people, if I even see you out there, I'll pass politely, just don't trip me with sticks. That's a little extreme.
CrumbSnatcher
06-23-2008, 19:53
do your thing karl,good luck. and thanks for picking up trash along the way...
4eyedbuzzard
06-23-2008, 19:58
Have a great hike, run, or whatever you call it Karl. And kudos on picking up trash. Kinda like Ed Garvey on speed. :eek: :rolleyes: BTW, can you inspect all the shelters and water sources along the way? ;)
And remember- it's your trail too.
I guess I'll chime in for a moment. I'm the guy who's gonna go run/hike the AT. It's not a real challenge of breaking the record. I get to do it supported. Maybe not the way the "old school" envisioned the trail, but welcome to the real world.
Hehe. **** the real world. That's why I go hiking! ;)
I guess I'll chime in for a moment. I'm the guy who's gonna go run/hike the AT. It's not a real challenge of breaking the record. I get to do it supported. Maybe not the way the "old school" envisioned the trail, but welcome to the real world. People out here do what they want to do. I want to cover the AT as fast as I can...to challenge myself and see if winning 100's is not the only thing I do best. Why should I not try and raise the bar. It's only for myself, noone else
As far as impact, think about it. I won't be camping, I have a longer stride (less footsteps). I'm gonna pick up some of that nasty garbage on the trail from local users of the trail. (I'm sure it's not hikers that create the garbage, that's not where I"m going with this).
What I like so much about my run is the public....via the internet will be able to watch me real time. Some will find it offensive, many will find it intriging and interesting to watch me suffer....and for the Ultra world to see if I can even do it.
I won't get in your way, if you are in need of desperate help, I'll help you. I am not an elitist who wants a "race" on the AT. That will never happen, I just want to experience something I have never experience.....and that's delerium for 47 days. 100 mile races don't get me to that point. This brutal trail will.
To the naysayers on the attempt: Enjoy the trail people, if I even see you out there, I'll pass politely, just don't trip me with sticks. That's a little extreme.Class act. Best of luck to you Karl!
For those who might have missed it, Karl and crew are going to make trash clean-up part of the journey: http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showpost.php?p=510357&postcount=14
This alone is a very nice contribution, IMHO. Considering the negative behavior that periodically rears it's ugly head in trail towns and occasionally on the footpath itself, Karl and crew seem to be focused on the positive path.
Hehe. **** the real world. That's why I go hiking! ;)Undoubtedly, Karl's journey has zero to do with your ability to continue to do just that.:-?
http://whereskarl.com/latest-news/
warren doyle
06-28-2008, 08:35
Karl's website was insightful.
He definitely has a fancy support vehicle - may be too much of one.
Also, it seems to be a rather ambitious, almost commercial, attempt.
Because of this newly acquired information, I will lower my prediction of him setting a new AT record down to 20%.
I think Andrew and JB (support) can rest easier.
Karl's website was insightful.
He definitely has a fancy support vehicle - may be too much of one.
Also, it seems to be a rather ambitious, almost commercial, attempt.
Because of this newly acquired information, I will lower my prediction of him setting a new AT record down to 20%.
I think Andrew and JB (support) can rest easier.
Warren, would you briefly share Andrew and JB's backgrounds?
Karl has many ultra-marathons under his belt and has won many times. How do you feel that experience would compare to Andrew's and JB's pre-hike preparations and capabilities?
Thanks.
warren doyle
06-28-2008, 09:09
It was Andrew's fourth attempt at the AT record over a period of several years - he had a 'monkey' on his back that Karl will not have. In Andrew's first two attempts (NOBO), he stopped in VT and NH respectively. In my opinion, to come back for a third and fourth attempt showed a positively obsessive motivation to accomplish it. It was not 'conquering' the trail or 'beating' David Horton or Pete Palmer, instead is was 'validating' and ultimately 'celebrating' himself.
Andrew had more experience hiking/running on trails in the Northeast than Karl does. Nortehastern hiking trails aren't particular 'kind' to trail runners when it comes to covering 40-45 miles per day.
Andrew's attempt was 'light' compared to Karl's attempt which has more trappings. In general. "Travel light, travel far."
I don't think Karl's support system is not going to be as knowledgeable and consistently efficient as Andrew's support person was.
I don't think Andrew labeled his attempt an "Appalachian Assault" as Karl has. Usually when one tries to 'conguer' the trail, the trail wins. I don't know whether this is actually Karl's mindset, but his website is using this terminology.
I base my opinion on studying long distance trail endurance record attempts (successes and failures) on the AT/LT since my own AT success in 1973 and my two failures and eventual success on the LT in 1978.
For the last 35 years, I have been very interested in the philosophical
and psychological aspects of long distance hiking. I am not interested in: gear discussions; guidebook discussions and hiker services.
Interesting Warren. Thanks for sharing.
My thoughts are Karl doesn't appear to have AT experience, him or his staff, and may have ignored offers from people who could share that. This is the kind of arrogance that could prevent him from succeeding. Even Tiger Woods, with all his arrogance, gets advice from those who went before him.
double d
06-28-2008, 10:47
As Karl clearly stated in his above post, the "old school" guys (starting with Benton MacKaye and Earl Schaffer) clearly never thought an AT hiker would need a support van that was sponsored by Red Bull for their "Appalachian Assualt" hike like yours needs, but I guess thats the "the real world" today. And of course the "old school guys" could never have thought of "the public, via the internet, can watch me in real time..and for the ultra world to see if I can do it". Yes Karl, in the real world, folks like to hike the AT without "assualting it" supported by a "where's Waldo" van. Karl, why not just do what your gonna do without all the hype?
Appalachian Assault. Wow, what a concept. :rolleyes: Ole' benton must spinning right about now.
Lone Wolf
06-28-2008, 12:54
Even Tiger Woods, with all his arrogance, gets advice from those who went before him.
woods is hardly arrogant
Lone Wolf
06-28-2008, 12:54
Appalachian Assault. Wow, what a concept. :rolleyes: Ole' benton must spinning right about now.
BFD :rolleyes:
woods is hardly arrogant
confidence then... don't care what word you use, this ain't a tiger story.
Karl sounds very confident that he has what it takes to set the record, and he very may well have many of the physical and mental qualities, but does he have the knowledge? Is he a student of the AT? Has he done his homework to maximize his chances for a record? Not saying he hasn't, just asking. He certainly knows enough to deliberately select a SOBO hike, which says one thing about his knowledge of the AT. I think I read he may have talked to Squeaky or maybe others. But it doesn't sound like he has tested himself on the AT to get a feel for it or fine tune his plan. Sounds like a disadvantage to me.
Dismiss my questions if you like. I ain't nobody to be asking - just curious on what goes into one of the biggest physical challenges anyone can put their body and mind through.
Thank you Warren for sharing your thoughts.
He definitely has a fancy support vehicle
That's for sure!
Does anyone know if he will be running as an amateur or a professional?
Lone Wolf
06-29-2008, 07:27
his crew will have a hard time getting that vehicle into a lot of road crossings. he's gonna have to be willing to camp in the middle of nowhere at times too. lotta ultra-runners ain't into that
mixed feelings... is the AT really meant for this!?!? Yes, it's a free country, it just feels like were headed to "TACO BELL", "PIZZA HUT" & "Outdoor Gear" Signs showing up in Shelters... I hope not... in any case... if I was attempting a "speed record"... Id do so along the highway.. with plenty of vechile support :)
mixed feelings... is the AT really meant for this!?!?
It is a permitted use. So the simple answer to your question is... yes.
Lone Wolf
06-29-2008, 07:59
mixed feelings... is the AT really meant for this!?!? Yes, it's a free country, it just feels like were headed to "TACO BELL", "PIZZA HUT" & "Outdoor Gear" Signs showing up in Shelters... I hope not... in any case... if I was attempting a "speed record"... Id do so along the highway.. with plenty of vechile support :)
the AT wasn't meant for through-hiking either. it's a marathon too. thru-hiker wannabes have a huge nrgative impact in georgia
It is a permitted use. So the simple answer to your question is... yes.
Might the vendor promotion, including the advertising on the support van, transform this to a commercial venture?
Is Karl getting any kind of stipend or expenses paid?
Not sure if that is even the case (it probably isn't, we aren't talking snowboarding or surfing here), but might that make the answer not so simple?
Not sure there would be anything wrong with this anyway, so I am just wondering. In any case, it is probably time to start keeping both amateur and professional records, because even assuming that Karl is an Amateur things could change in the years ahead.
Might the vendor promotion, including the advertising on the support van, transform this to a commercial venture?
Is Karl getting any kind of stipend or expenses paid?
Not sure if that is even the case (it probably isn't, we aren't talking snowboarding or surfing here), but might that make the answer not so simple?
Not sure there would be anything wrong with this anyway, so I am just wondering. In any case, it is probably time to start keeping both amateur and professional records, because even assuming that Karl is an Amateur things could change in the years ahead.
I donno about your first questions. To my way of thinking, as long as the commercial aspects stay off the trail, and runners are challenging themselves by running against the clock, it's not a big deal. The NPS may hold a different view.
The effort is arduous enough that IMO, the pool of folks who will attempt this will always be small.
double d
06-29-2008, 09:11
Karl, why can't you do what you gotta do and just be humble about it? Karl, if you really want a challenge for your "Appalachian assualt" (BTW: foolish use of words on your webpage with some of the recent violence that has happened on the AT)? Start your ultra run in January at Springer Mt., in the cold, rain, mud, snow and wind. Now, that is an "assault" by mother nature.
Lone Wolf
06-29-2008, 09:34
Karl, why can't you do what you gotta do and just be humble about it? Karl, if you really want a challenge for your "Appalachian assualt" (BTW: foolish use of words on your webpage with some of the recent violence that has happened on the AT)? Start your ultra run in January at Springer Mt., in the cold, rain, mud, snow and wind. Now, that is an "assault" by mother nature that I would watch anyday while drinking my cheap koolaid with caffine added to it.
hikr your own hike or something like that.
GO KARL!
<snip>
The effort is arduous enough that IMO, the pool of folks who will attempt this will always be small.This is true. I doubt that we will see this type of attempt very often. The only reason there seems to be hype about this is due to the fact we are following a thread on an AT related website. When you enter "Appalachian assault" in google, Karl's personal blog, and another ultra-runner's blog are the only meaningful results that showed up on the first page. That might change when the start date approaches, but this is just another attempt to follow the route in the least time possible. As far as sponsors go, Karl is really no different than any other athlete who decides to try to make a living in a very low profile sport (ultra-marathon). Being sponsored is the only way to carve out a living without supplementing your earnings with a regular job. If that is his dream in life, and he can manage, good for him.
double d
06-29-2008, 10:05
Cool: so if one wants to go directly to Karl's webpage, all one has to do is just type in "appalachian assault" on google? Does that show any respect to Meredith?
In James Fennemore Cooper's book "Last of the Mohicans" Chingchucook and Natty Bumpkin travel from Fort Edward NY to Oswego NY ( about 150 miles ?) in about ten days. No trails, No 7 / 11's . Not the fastest time, but I like to use that in comparison to todays speedhikers.
Of course that was a fictional account, but it was written in the day, and I would think it be fairly realistic.
I like to think that the original Americans were the first ultra marathoners and they didn't even know it! :-?
( I just banged this out, so forgive my spelling )
When Karl passes me on the AT this summer, I'll make sure to take a sip from my koolaid in salute to him, I can't afford no expensive Red Bull, my hike isn't sponsored, I'm just there because I like to hike the AT and care about the vast majority of the people who hike it.
Yep, he's doing it his way and you are doing it your way. That is all this is. :)
Lone Wolf
06-29-2008, 12:38
Cool: so if one wants to go directly to Karl's webpage, all one has to do is just type in "appalachian assault" on google? Does that show any respect to Meredith? I guess Karl said it best, gotta live in the real world and not be an "old school" guy, screw the values, respect and traditions of the AT.
I'd bet Karl would be eating out of dumpsters by Gorham if he didn't have the "where's waldo" van. "Ultra run your own ultra run", I guess. When Karl passes me on the AT this summer, I'll make sure to take a sip from my koolaid in salute to him, I can't afford no expensive Red Bull, my hike isn't sponsored, I'm just there because I like to hike the AT and care about the vast majority of the people who hike it.
whoopee dooo! :rolleyes:
I guess I just don't get why you're all so fascinated with this. Every few years someone gets press and sponsors and makes a go of speed hiking or running the AT. Sometimes they finish, sometimes they don't. Sometimes they're humble, sometimes they're ... not so humble. Why do you even care?
There's no speed limit on the AT. As long as you're moving under your own power (meaning you can't use an ATV or horse, etc) you can hike as far and long and fast as you want.
There's no weight requirement for gear on the AT. You can carry a water bottle, a daypack, a pack loaded for a week or more, or nothing at all.
There's no regulation for support on the AT. You can be a hunter/gatherer (as long as you stay within regulations), carry 100 days of food and never resupply, resupply once ever 4-5 days, or meet someone at every road crossing and get a new PB&J.
This guy is a self-described ultra-runner, so hopefully ultra-running is appealing to him. If that's the case, then he's probably eagerly anticipating his Appalachian Assault. Whether that's the case, he's at least chosen to do this, as countless other hikers have chosen to travel along the AT over the years. And really, there's no meaningful difference between his journey and yours.
You're not better than him. He's not better than you. Having sponsors will not destroy the trail. Being paid will not destroy the trail. Him running will not destroy the trail. Calling this an "Appalachian Assault" will not destroy the trail.
So I wish this fellow, as I would wish any of you, good luck on your journey, and may you be successful in accomplishing and finding what you seek.
Why do you even care?
I'm just thinking there should be an amateur record and a professional one, like in so many other sports. Still don't know if Karl would classify as a professional though. Either way, good luck and God Speed.
Too complicated. To keep track of.
I bet he has fun, in a twisted way.
I hope he has fun, anyway.
warren doyle
06-29-2008, 12:58
Speaking for myself, it doesn't matter about the level of sponsorship that a record attemptor has or doesn't have. What is important to me is they do it honestly by following the white blazes the entire way. Karl strikes me as an individual that has this needed integrity both to the trail and to the people who went before him.
I still give him a 20% chance of breaking the record.
What is important to me is they do it honestly by following the white blazes the entire way.
A couple thoughts... What happens when the official trail is longer than a previous attempt? It seems the trail "grows" a mile or two every year. For instance, if Karls attempt was a few minutes longer than Andrews but he hiked a few miles more wouldn't it be a record?
Also, in a non-record attempt, you're always harping about passing every white blaze yet it appears you miss the PA road walk and other sections of relocated trail. Can't you hike old AT or blue without dishonoring the trail?
A couple thoughts... What happens when the official trail is longer than a previous attempt? It seems the trail "grows" a mile or two every year. For instance, if Karls attempt was a few minutes longer than Andrews but he hiked a few miles more wouldn't it be a record?
Also, in a non-record attempt, you're always harping about passing every white blaze yet it appears you miss the PA road walk and other sections of relocated trail. Can't you hike old AT or blue without dishonoring the trail?
I think its like with records in baseball. The rules remain the same from year to year, but everyone knows that the conditions of the era in which the records were set will change.
As such, in baseball we have numbers put up in the pre-steroid era and numbers put up the post steroid era, but only one "record".
On the Trail we have the road walk era (RWE), and the relocated in to the woods (RITTW) era. But only one record (now at 47 days).
Hope this helps.
4eyedbuzzard
06-29-2008, 13:24
Next thing ya know people will be calling for testing of speed hikers for performance enhancing substances. :rolleyes:
warren doyle
06-29-2008, 13:29
Interesting thoughts.
Every AT record attemptor has had a slightly longer trail to contend with than the previous record holder. The 'gentlemen's rules' among the long distance endurance hiking fraternity/sorority is this makes no difference. The record attemptor has known the distance of the trail before his/her attempt and has adjusted to it without complaint.
On your second thought, how other people hike the trail is up to them to decide. For myself, I have honored the trail and all the people who have put in a lot of time and effort to make sure that the trail is continuously white-blazed. This is very important to me and I don't expect it to be as important to the majority of other hikers.
It is also important to me that I walk the entire trail under my own leg/foot power. Therefore, it is important to me to ford the Kennebec. Again, I don't expect this to be as important to the majority of other hikers.
However, I am disappointed that hikers who either want to follow the white blazes or ford the Kennebec, because it is important to them, are subject to ridicule and derision that is largely unilateral.
Happy trails and interesting thoughts!
I am disappointed that hikers who either want to follow the white blazes or ford the Kennebec, because it is important to them, are subject to ridicule and derision that is largely unilateral.
Well, of course, that works both ways, but for the most part I agree with you.
Lone Wolf
06-29-2008, 13:46
i ford and blue-blaze. i have never picked on a purist for doing their thing
max patch
06-29-2008, 14:03
i ford and blue-blaze. i have never picked on a purist for doing their thing
Maybe not IRL, but you certainly do on this website. Sheeple and anal come to mind.
i ford and blue-blaze. i have never picked on a purist for doing their thing
Great attitude. Let everyone do their thing and not pick on anyone doing theirs.
Maybe not IRL, but you certainly do on this website. Sheeple and anal come to mind.
Lone Wolf knew I was a purist, and he was always cool with me. From what I've seen, he has a lot of other issues that are much more of a concern for him. Thru-hikers that embarrass the rest of the community in trail towns with poor behavior seems like a much bigger one. Having seen the same thing when I thru-hiked 9 years ago causes me to agree with with on that count.
I also remember meeting Cujo on Memorial Day on my thruhike as he passed me just north of SNP. (Actually it was at a road crossing where some trail angels were having an impromptu hiker feed). He was one of the most personable hikers I met along the trail, despite averaging 43 miles a day. Speed of hike doesn't dictate that any one be unpleasant.
Next thing ya know people will be calling for testing of speed hikers for performance enhancing substances. :rolleyes:
I just read that some athletes are now using Viagra for a legal performance boost.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25409440/
Panzer
ps. stay away from these guys:eek::eek:
Every AT record attemptor has had a slightly longer trail to contend with than the previous record holder. The 'gentlemen's rules' among the long distance endurance hiking fraternity/sorority is this makes no difference. The record attemptor has known the distance of the trail before his/her attempt and has adjusted to it without complaint.
Also, I think the weather is another major factor. If the record is set in a drought year then it may be hard to beat. If the next person to attempt to break the record has rain on their hike than this can slow them down a lot. If they have several days of rain it gets even worse.
Panzer
jersey joe
06-29-2008, 17:01
Cool: so if one wants to go directly to Karl's webpage, all one has to do is just type in "appalachian assault" on google? Does that show any respect to Meredith? I guess Karl said it best, gotta live in the real world and not be an "old school" guy, screw the values, respect and traditions of the AT.
Somebody woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning...
I kinda liked the phrase "appalachian assault".
So. Someone walks by you really really fast then is gone.
What's the problem? Why worry about it?
I don't get it. :confused:
So. Someone walks by you really really fast then is gone.
What's the problem? Why worry about it?
I don't get it. :confused:That totally sums it up.:sun
CrumbSnatcher
06-29-2008, 17:35
So. Someone walks by you really really fast then is gone.
What's the problem? Why worry about it?
I don't get it. :confused:
thats the perfect question:-?,you forgot RUNS/WALKS
thats the perfect question,you forgot RUNS
The only time "runs" is an issue on the trail is when I've got 'em. :eek: But I carry something in my first aid kit for that.
I just read that some athletes are now using Viagra for a legal performance boost.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25409440/
Panzer
ps. stay away from these guys:eek::eek:
At least you will be able to tell who's "using"
"thru-hiker wannabes have a huge negative impact in georgia"
very true LW
Odd Thomas
06-29-2008, 20:14
Next thing ya know people will be calling for testing of speed hikers for performance enhancing substances. :rolleyes:
I doubt most of the substances on the trail are performance enhancing:p
Lone Wolf
06-29-2008, 20:15
"thru-hiker wannabes have a huge negative impact in georgia"
very true LW
no offense but you do know what i mean? 2000 or so hit the trail every year. 1 or 2 speed hikers do their thing once every 3 years or so.
no offense but you do know what i mean? 2000 or so hit the trail every year. 1 or 2 speed hikers do their thing once every 3 years or so.
But the speed hikers underline the fact that the typical thru hiker's physical accomplishments aren't all that. They are worse than old people and handicapped people in that regard. Perhaps if they ran and didn't tell anybody it would be better.
Lone Wolf
06-29-2008, 20:36
But the speed hikers underline the fact that the typical thru hiker's physical accomplishments aren't all that.
well no *****t. i agree
double d
06-29-2008, 20:48
Speed hikers are usually different then ultra runners. Speed hikers usually carry a light pack, while ultra runners are supported and most do not carry a pack. These are much different experiences for section/thru hikers, speed hikers and ultra runners. Most ultra runners also leave the trail in the evening.
Lone Wolf
06-29-2008, 21:05
Speed hikers are usually different then ultra runners. Speed hikers usually carry a light pack, while ultra runners are supported and most do not carry a pack. These are much different experiences for section/thru hikers, speed hikers and ultra runners. Most ultra runners also leave the trail in the evening.
oh really. how much time have you spent with ultra runners and speed hikers?. i've supported both
OregonHiker
06-29-2008, 21:13
oh really. how much time have you spent with ultra runners and speed hikers?. i've supported both
You're an athletic supporter? :cool:
You're an athletic supporter? :cool:
Do you come up with that one yourself or were you born that way? :rolleyes:
Do you come up with that one yourself or were you born that way? :rolleyes:Stolen from the movie "Grease".
Principal McGee (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000781/): If you can't be in athlete, be an athletic supporter.
You're an athletic supporter? :cool:
NO, HE IS A QUIT over the years and now...wants to talk about what HE HAS DONE TO HELP OTHERS...SAD.
NO, HE IS A QUIT over the years and now...wants to talk about what HE HAS DONE TO HELP OTHERS...SAD.
I am beginning to understand why you are SLOW. :rolleyes:
double d
06-29-2008, 21:59
Lone Wolf, are you saying they are the same? For example, say a guy (such as Andy Skurka) hikes over 6,000 miles is the same "hiker" as Karl, who carries little/no gear (and has a support van to retreat too each night) during his ultra run in order to finish the AT in under 47 days?
I am beginning to understand why you are SLOW. :rolleyes:
If you're just beginning to understand that, then you're not much quicker. ;)
I am beginning to understand why you are SLOW. :rolleyes:
5 TIMES IS NOT SLOW.
Just suck up he will LOVE you.:)
If you're just beginning to understand that, then you're not much quicker. ;)
Should i just say?for you to start trash like you do?
Lone Wolf
06-30-2008, 00:02
I am beginning to understand why you are SLOW. :rolleyes:
i have an affinty for "tards"
Lone Wolf
06-30-2008, 00:04
Lone Wolf, are you saying they are the same? For example, say a guy (such as Andy Skurka) hikes over 6,000 miles is the same "hiker" as Karl, who carries little/no gear (and has a support van to retreat too each night) during his ultra run in order to finish the AT in under 47 days?
huh? what are you asking?
Should i just say?for you to start trash like you do?
I guess you are not as slow as a turtle. :)
double d
06-30-2008, 00:08
Lone Wolf, my earlier post was in reference to what you think is the difference between long distance speed hikers and ultra runners. You indicated that you have experience working with both groups.
i have an affinty for "tards"
A TARD NEVER HITTING A HOME RUN OR ....WELL NEVER PUTTING TO FINISH THE 18TH...WHY DID I QUIT....BECAUSE I WAS NOT HAVING ANY FUN ANYMORE..... :eek: SLACK
Lone Wolf
06-30-2008, 00:28
Lone Wolf, my earlier post was in reference to what you think is the difference between long distance speed hikers and ultra runners. You indicated that you have experience working with both groups.
there's no difference. they both want to do the trail in record time while being supported
Lone Wolf
06-30-2008, 00:30
A TARD NEVER HITTING A HOME RUN OR ....WELL NEVER PUTTING TO FINISH THE 18TH...WHY DID I QUIT....BECAUSE I WAS NOT HAVING ANY FUN ANYMORE..... :eek: SLACK
huh? caps lock boy? :D do you ride the bus or take your lunch to school? :-?
huh? caps lock boy? :D do you ride the bus or take your lunch to school? :-?
YOU QUIT 5 TIMES SON .SON.SON..BOTTOM LINE.
AND IF WRONG SAY IT ?
PLASE ANSWER FOR ALL TO BE KNOWN ...ON W.B. :eek:
Lone Wolf
06-30-2008, 00:53
YOU QUIT 5 TIMES SON .SON.SON..BOTTOM LINE.
AND IF WRONG SAY IT ?
PLASE ANSWER FOR ALL TO BE KNOWN ...ON W.B. :eek:
i've never attempted a speed hike. you wrong. i say it. son.son.son
YOU QUIT 5 TIMES SON .SON.SON..BOTTOM LINE.
AND IF WRONG SAY IT ?
PLASE ANSWER FOR ALL TO BE KNOWN ...ON W.B. :eek:
They already know he quit when he stopped having fun and tells anyone who asks. So what? :)
Very Sorry Please.:-?
VSP?? Is that like ESP? Which we don't have. what are you saying?
They already know he quit when he stopped having fun and tells anyone who asks. So what? :)
HE QUIT HAVING 5 TIMES IN A ROW.:rolleyes:
AND HE WILL NOT ANSWER ....BUT YOU CAN FOR HIM.:o
Lone Wolf
06-30-2008, 01:08
HE QUIT HAVING 5 TIMES IN A ROW.:rolleyes:
AND HE WILL NOT ANSWER ....BUT YOU CAN FOR HIM.:o
HE QUIT HAVING WHAT 5 TIMES IN A ROW :rolleyes:
Lone Wolf
07-02-2008, 05:03
so anyway, i think karl will break the record. if he can make it to vermont on schedule and injury free, the rest of the trail will be gravy. his support crew will be a big factor too. it ain't an easy job
The Old Fhart
07-02-2008, 08:53
Slow-"YOU QUIT 5 TIMES SON .SON.SON..BOTTOM LINE.
AND IF WRONG SAY IT ?...."He didn't quit, his goals just changed, nothing wrong with that.
Maybe Lone Wolf likes his hikes as short as his posts! HYOH.;)
warren doyle
07-02-2008, 08:59
Also, I think the weather is another major factor. If the record is set in a drought year then it may be hard to beat. If the next person to attempt to break the record has rain on their hike than this can slow them down a lot. If they have several days of rain it gets even worse.
Panzer
This theory did not hold up on the AT.
When Pete Palmer (NOBO) set his AT record, he only had two days of rain (while walking) the entire time.
When Andrew Thompson (SOBO) broke Pete's AT record, he had several days of rain and wet trail conditions in ME/NH.
Rain/wet trail conditions will probably reduce one's mph (meaning longer days and less available time to sleep) but strategic logistical intelligence and positively obsessive desire are the most important ingredients for a successful long distance trail endurance record.
so anyway, i think karl will break the record.
My money's on Karl.
What happened to the poll I put up a few days ago about how far Karl would go??? Was there an issue regarding the rules???
Speedgoat Karl
07-02-2008, 20:28
I love you guys! "Appalachian Assault" is just a play on words, kind of like when I came up with the name speedgoat. It just sounded good. I am sorry to offend anyone in Georgia....if that means anything!
In reference to not asking many others for advice. I have asked some, I am not going in blind and have a crew that has successfully thru-hiked the whole trail, self supported about 20-25 miles a day. The are no rookies.
In terms of getting the RV into some wierd places, I have an answer for that too. The backup car is in place as well. ....yah more support.
As everyone can see I am VERY supported here, and I will never say I am not. Those that do the AT on their own are the real heroes, kind of like when I see runners in 100 milers just making the cutoff. They are out there much longer and suffer longer. This attempt by me is a way for them to watch ME suffer instead of them.
Ultimately this is a lifelong dream of mine and I'm gonna enjoy it, and feel the pain at the same time....I live for it, and now I get my chance to have it. For I may die tomorrow, so why procrastinate on doing it now. Not to mention, I'm pretty excited to get started!
Lone Wolf
07-02-2008, 20:31
I love you guys! "Appalachian Assault" is just a play on words, kind of like when I came up with the name speedgoat. It just sounded good. I am sorry to offend anyone in Georgia....if that means anything!
In reference to not asking many others for advice. I have asked some, I am not going in blind and have a crew that has successfully thru-hiked the whole trail, self supported about 20-25 miles a day. The are no rookies.
In terms of getting the RV into some wierd places, I have an answer for that too. The backup car is in place as well. ....yah more support.
As everyone can see I am VERY supported here, and I will never say I am not. Those that do the AT on their own are the real heroes, kind of like when I see runners in 100 milers just making the cutoff. They are out there much longer and suffer longer. This attempt by me is a way for them to watch ME suffer instead of them.
Ultimately this is a lifelong dream of mine and I'm gonna enjoy it, and feel the pain at the same time....I live for it, and now I get my chance to have it. For I may die tomorrow, so why procrastinate on doing it now. Not to mention, I'm pretty excited to get started!
i'd love to help you out when you get to the damascus area. give some of the crew a break. whatever. i'm good at support. damn good
saimyoji
07-02-2008, 20:34
kick butt karl....hope you do it. :sun
I don't really care how you make out, but lots and lots of data would be nice. :D
Just kidding. Farewell. Don't let data or anything else drag you down.
Karl,
Thanks for taking the time to post here. I hope your preparations are going well. Good luck to you and kudos to dropping by unfamiliar territory to answer questions and concerns. I hope those who questioned your motives and decisions will read your response. Good Luck!
I thought some of you might find this interesting;
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/03/sports/othersports/03climbing.html?ex=1372824000&en=59c571765cdc972f&ei=5124&partner=permalink&exprod=permalink
Speedgoat Karl
07-03-2008, 10:45
Hey LW, When I am in the Damascus area, I would love to meet you and enjoy some world class support. I'll be delerious, so any help would be great. Just follow whereskarl.com (http://www.whereskarl.com)to see when I will get there, ahead or behind schedule, it won't matter, but I'll be there!