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trippclark
05-29-2008, 09:56
Having thus far section hiked the southern 780 miles or so, I was looking ahead in "Appalachian Pages" taking note of the terrain that I have ahead. Those who have this book will be aware that the elevation profiles are watermarked on the pages with the descriptions. Anyway, I could not help but notice that after about mile 850 or so the profile changes radically until about mile 1450 and that in that 600 miles there are few if any climbs over 1000 feet. I know that profiles are famously misleading, but it does appear that the trail changes drastically for many miles and that the long, taxing climbs will be gone for quite a while. How accurate is this perception?

Frosty
05-29-2008, 10:01
I know that profiles are famously misleading, They are? I never found profiles misleading.

trippclark
05-29-2008, 10:21
They are? I never found profiles misleading.

Well, that is what "they" say!! :D

CrumbSnatcher
05-29-2008, 10:32
Having thus far section hiked the southern 780 miles or so, I was looking ahead in "Appalachian Pages" taking note of the terrain that I have ahead. Those who have this book will be aware that the elevation profiles are watermarked on the pages with the descriptions. Anyway, I could not help but notice that after about mile 850 or so the profile changes radically until about mile 1450 and that in that 600 miles there are few if any climbs over 1000 feet. I know that profiles are famously misleading, but it does appear that the trail changes drastically for many miles and that the long, taxing climbs will be gone for quite a while. How accurate is this perception?
most thruhikers go thru that section during the hot summer months,between the heat and sometimes lack of water,makes this section a little tougher. the terain is pretty mild. you'll hit the penn. rocks south of port clinton all the way to high point state park(they suck because its hard to keep a pace,you'll feel like your hop scotching) and the guides say harriman state park has some good ups and downs, but the section just south of the park has a few nasty up and downs fo sure... nothing to hard though good hiking

MOWGLI
05-29-2008, 10:38
How accurate is this perception?

Very accurate.

Skyline
05-29-2008, 10:42
In general, you're right. Starting after the Three Ridges area south of SNP, up through northern Mass., elevation change isn't so extreme. In fact, once you leave SNP in the Front Royal area the overall elevation doesn't get above 2,000 ft. very often until you hit Greylock just before Vermont.

Cookerhiker
05-29-2008, 10:48
most thruhikers go thru that section during the hot summer months,between the heat and sometimes lack of water,makes this section a little tougher. the terain is pretty mild. you'll hit the penn. rocks south of port clinton all the way to high point state park(they suck because its hard to keep a pace,you'll feel like your hop scotching) and the guides say harriman state park has some good ups and downs, but the section just south of the park has a few nasty up and downs fo sure... nothing to hard though good hiking

This sums it up pretty well, especially what you said about NY. From Rt. 17A to Bear Mountain, the trail is all up-and-down but no long single 2,000' or even 1,000' ascents. So the typical elevation profile doesn't do justice to this stretch.

When I hiked here in '04, the shelter register entries were replete with thruhikers bitching about the PUDs in NY and somehow thinking that the trail should have been made easier although Harriman Park's rolling terrain makes that impossible. My friend Northern Harrier who thru-hiked in '04 said the day he hiked from 17A to Fingerboard Shelter was his toughest day until he hit the White Mts. And in his book AWOL on the Appalachian Trail, AWOL who was very fit and regularly did 20 mile days spoke of the difficulty of this stretch.

I think I'd rather hike a single 2,000' ascent than 4 consecutive 500' ups and downs back-to-back.

MOWGLI
05-29-2008, 10:52
Northern Virginia, West Virginia, Maryland, PA and NJ are a piece of cake. That stretch softens many thru-hikers. New York starts to get tough again, and prepares you for New England.

Wingfoot used to say that when you have completed 75% of the trail (heading NOBO), you have only expended 50% of the energy needed to complete a thru-hike. I agree with that assessment completely.

Tractor
05-29-2008, 10:54
"think I'd rather hike a single 2,000' ascent than 4 consecutive 500' ups and downs back-to-back"

I do agree with that....!!

4eyedbuzzard
05-29-2008, 14:18
...Wingfoot used to say
Well then it MUST be true!:D :::just had to do that...:::


that when you have completed 75% of the trail (heading NOBO), you have only expended 50% of the energy needed to complete a thru-hike. I agree with that assessment completely.

Yeah, any "break" in the mid-atlantic/southern NE will be paid for in spades in VT, NH, and ME.

MOWGLI
05-29-2008, 14:23
Yeah, any "break" in the mid-atlantic/southern NE will be paid for in spades in VT, NH, and ME.

Vermont isn't tough IMO. Not on the AT anyway.

CrumbSnatcher
05-29-2008, 14:36
Northern Virginia, West Virginia, Maryland, PA and NJ are a piece of cake. That stretch softens many thru-hikers. New York starts to get tough again, and prepares you for New England.

Wingfoot used to say that when you have completed 75% of the trail (heading NOBO), you have only expended 50% of the energy needed to complete a thru-hike. I agree with that assessment completely.
some people do bitch about the roller coaster south of harpers...

CrumbSnatcher
05-29-2008, 14:44
This sums it up pretty well, especially what you said about NY. From Rt. 17A to Bear Mountain, the trail is all up-and-down but no long single 2,000' or even 1,000' ascents. So the typical elevation profile doesn't do justice to this stretch.

When I hiked here in '04, the shelter register entries were replete with thruhikers bitching about the PUDs in NY and somehow thinking that the trail should have been made easier although Harriman Park's rolling terrain makes that impossible. My friend Northern Harrier who thru-hiked in '04 said the day he hiked from 17A to Fingerboard Shelter was his toughest day until he hit the White Mts. And in his book AWOL on the Appalachian Trail, AWOL who was very fit and regularly did 20 mile days spoke of the difficulty of this stretch.

I think I'd rather hike a single 2,000' ascent than 4 consecutive 500' ups and downs back-to-back.
AWOLs book was good, so was an ordinary adventurer! check out iron toothpick and BEARFOOT a north bound thruhiker. just finished me and the boy. right now i'm reading model-t's book the happy side of misery all 500+ pages. its a good read,i'm just a slow reader. i was the spelling b champion runner-up,third year of third grade...

MOWGLI
05-29-2008, 14:53
some people do bitch about the roller coaster south of harpers...

True.

I did it on a day with temps in the high 90s and humidity off the charts. It's nothing compared to New England IMO. Just a couple of bumps.

Everything is relative.

Blissful
05-29-2008, 15:00
I found that climbing a mtn doesn't necessarily mean the trail is hard. In fact climbing for me is much easier than a steep descent that wrecks your knees.

emerald
05-29-2008, 15:12
Steep downs are worse than steep ups, but, as GG said, "it's more head than heel" and heat or rocks. It's also true, it's always harder for hikers who attempt to hike an imaginerary trail that exists only in their minds while hiking the actual trail too. They always lose, as they should.

I see someone was typing while I was again. We have many posters thinking along the same lines today. This is a good thing. I believe it means I have other things to do which require my attention more.

Cookerhiker
05-29-2008, 16:40
some people do bitch about the roller coaster south of harpers...


True.

I did it on a day with temps in the high 90s and humidity off the charts. It's nothing compared to New England IMO. Just a couple of bumps.

Everything is relative.

Overrated. I did it in a dayhike slackpack leaving my car at the north end and bicycling to the south end. The bike ride was much tougher than the hike. But in the Fall, at least I had temperate weather. Perhaps I'd have thought otherwise if I had hiked with MOWGLI.

Cookerhiker
05-29-2008, 16:50
....In fact climbing for me is much easier than a steep descent that wrecks your knees.

Yep, no doubt about it. I almost quit my Maine hike in '05 because the descent down Bemis (http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=114621) over wet rocks sent me sprawling several times. And later on, descending the north side of Avery Peak (http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=115462) was brutal.

On my Long Trail hike last year, I decided that hell was eternally descending the north side of Whiteface Mt. (http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=203586) in extreme humidity with wet rocks and roots.

CrumbSnatcher
05-29-2008, 17:12
most prefer uphills to downhills, it takes me a couple weeks to let my fat a** get used to the ups but i've always been able to run the down hills. kinda like mogeling... i might be the only one but i kinda like the flat sections and the slabbing around mtns. sometimes:D

CrumbSnatcher
05-29-2008, 17:23
it also depends on your mindset,i have had totally different types of hikes on the same mountain,just different years. helps when your in a good mood. when your pissed off, or injured or hot or just don't give a s*** it 's a little tougher...of coarse if its happy hour or the buffet closing, it just don't matter... just get out of my way...:)

rafe
05-29-2008, 17:34
I gotta say, the Roller Coaster tested my patience a bit. But it was hot as hades, which may have affected my POV. That, and spending a night at (or near) Dick's Dome shelter at the end of it. It has my vote for worst shelter on the AT.

4eyedbuzzard
05-29-2008, 17:38
Vermont isn't tough IMO. Not on the AT anyway.

Certainly not tough compared to NH, but harder than CT and MA I think.

MOWGLI
05-29-2008, 17:41
Certainly not tough compared to NH, but harder than CT and MA I think.

Longer, yes. Harder? Not for me. The bugs in MA made that state very tough for this hiker. I didn't find the terrain in VT all that difficult. But perhaps that's selective memory.

Cookerhiker
05-29-2008, 20:05
Longer, yes. Harder? Not for me. The bugs in MA made that state very tough for this hiker. I didn't find the terrain in VT all that difficult. But perhaps that's selective memory.

I thought that NOBO thrus were more likely to gripe about the muck (Ver-mud) than the terrain.