View Full Version : Should you ever discourage someone. . .
dessertrat
05-29-2008, 11:38
There was a thread on this a long time ago, about whether to discourage someone from attempting a thru-hike. My question is a bit different-- should you ever discourage someone from backpacking due to their physical condition?
I ask because during my recent trip I met a nice young couple in their twenties, each of whom were probably one hundred pounds overweight. In the interest of full disclosure, I am about thirty or maybe even forty pounds overweight myself, but keep somewhat active (I weigh about 220, would be better off at 180 to 190). But these folks each appeared to be over 300 pounds and of average height. They were sitting with their packs outside a hotel in Harpers Ferry, waiting for a taxi to take them to Snickers Gap, where they would proceed south. They had attempted, the day before, to climb out of Harpers Ferry heading southbound, had only made it halfway up the hill, and had headed back into town exhausted. (They also seemed to have far too much equipment, but that's a minor point-- I could have carried either of their packs if it were required that I do so).
I felt like asking them "if you couldn't make it up the hill out of HF, what on God's green earth makes you think that you will be able to make it through the roller coaster?" That seemed cruel. Instead, I mentioned that the climbs can be very frustrating and that it is best, when faced with a tough climb, to take it slow, rest when needed, and keep going until you reach the top, resigning oneself to a pace of 1 mile per hour, or even less, if necessary.
But thinking back on it, these folks just don't belong out there. They themselves had made that apparent by quitting the climb out of Harpers Ferry halfway up-- just couldn't make it. What the hell do you say in that situation? What if one of them falls down a hill and breaks a leg, and rescuers have to risk their own safety to carry a 300 pound person down from the hills? What if one of them falls and dies due to being physically totally unfit? In hindsight, their attempt at backpacking seemed roughly the same as if I were to head off for Everest tomorrow with no preparation and expect to "just do it." Someone would be doing me a favor to tell me to go spend a couple of years getting ready and climbing smaller mountains.
I was really at a loss for words, other than words that would have sounded completely cruel.
What would you have said? Or is it none of my business?
hammock engineer
05-29-2008, 11:40
Almost every to every other freakin day hiker I saw from PA south asked me if I was going to make it or commented that I probibly wouldn't. Just goes to show most people will speak up without having a clue what they are talking about.
Lone Wolf
05-29-2008, 11:40
none of your business really. they chose obesity and they chose to hike
gravityman
05-29-2008, 11:48
I agree, don't say anything other than encouragement.
If they get hurt and need a rescue, well, how is that different than a backcountry skier getting caught in an avalanche that knew the conditions were iffy or a climber on everest?
Gravity
dessertrat
05-29-2008, 11:51
Almost every to every other freakin day hiker I saw from PA south asked me if I was going to make it or commented that I probibly wouldn't. Just goes to show most people will speak up without having a clue what they are talking about.
But did you quit a climb as being too difficult and take a cab to a climb that was even harder? Doesn't sound like it.
angewrite
05-29-2008, 11:52
Why would you want to discourage someone who is very obviously overweight and out of shape from doing something that will help help them on both fronts? Perhaps you could have suggested an easier hike for them to start with (C&O Canal To Path)
We're talking AT here not Everest. Even though it is possible they could get hurt and need rescued, it's not likely. And in the event that they need rescuing, it would be difficult but not necessarily dangerous for rescuers.
dessertrat
05-29-2008, 11:53
I agree, don't say anything other than encouragement.
If they get hurt and need a rescue, well, how is that different than a backcountry skier getting caught in an avalanche that knew the conditions were iffy or a climber on everest?
Gravity
Maybe you're right. Still, it seemed like a disaster waiting to happen.
angewrite
05-29-2008, 11:54
But did you quit a climb as being too difficult and take a cab to a climb that was even harder? Doesn't sound like it.
They may not have known they were heading to an even more difficult climb. Perhaps this is where you should have suggested a different route or an easier section. Either way they should be encouraged to hike.
dessertrat
05-29-2008, 11:55
Why would you want to discourage someone who is very obviously overweight and out of shape from doing something that will help help them on both fronts?
I guess it seems to me that they will likely have such a bad time of it that they will never leave the television again, whereas if they had started with something easier, and built up to it, they might be far better off.
hammock engineer
05-29-2008, 11:57
But did you quit a climb as being too difficult and take a cab to a climb that was even harder? Doesn't sound like it.
I'll have to admit, I didn't read the whole post. The negative talk just strikes a nerve with me. As long as I don't see someone hurting themselves or something else, I just say hi and move on.
well said wolf, not to take away from what you said dessertrat but they chose to be obese ( im 240 and like 5 foot seven or 5 foot eight) wieght is a simple math problem calories taken IN versus calories burned OUT i know people who have been obese all thier lives , pretty much like me and they go to wieght watchers and jenny criag and order that special "diet" meal course for hundreds a month...yet they dont get active and they try to say no matter what they do the wieght wont come off if you have a serious health problem that keeps you from losing wieght the doctor can test for it otherwise its just being lazy and CHOOSING to be obese ( one note i feel i should add is they often stop for fried chicken at a fast food place right next too the meeting spot for weight watchers..but ofcourse they dont eat the chicken till after cuase " oh i gotta wiegh in!" hope i lost 10 pounds!.unsuprisingly it never happens, think the best that can be done is people to really represent the trail as truthfully as possible and if someone decides to do it have to respect them for making an effort , theres tons of people that said i should not even be attempting this year and wiat till next after i drop 60 pounds well i know what im getting myself into more or less but if 70 year olds and 10 year olds can do the trail i can its a mental thing about KEEP going and sure its hard to stay motivated when your huffing and puffing and noone else has broken a sweat yet but it has been done..so it will be done again if i was you though dessertrat i would have asked them just that " if you cant finish THIS climb how the hell are you supposed to deal with newyork new hampshire or maine" note i didnt say " due to your size what are yo doing here" both might have sounded cruel and might have been taken badly but if one of them has a heart attack on a bald what is there that can be done i know its not easy but instead of letting them slog on expecting it to get easier after that climb would be just as cruel as saying " hey this just isnt for you right now" but its being said out of CONCERN instead of RIDICULE so kind of double edged sword true none of your business really it never HURTS to show concern and help educate those entering the hiking community, " not trying to say outloud your not FIT enough but the AT isnt easy by.. ANYONES standards"-my brother "well to be perfectly honest , and you know im right you arent exactly in the habit of carrying a pack around and backpacking " - my moher " f#$k dude your going to have a heart attack"- my friend who was in the marines at first i did take thier comments the wrong way, till later thinking back they are right im not in "peak physical condition" but i know the biggest factor in completing a thru is mental may have to go alot slower than most people but yes it can be done,and so it shall be once more
Johnny Swank
05-29-2008, 12:34
I'd probably stay out of if unless asked for your opinion. Sometimes it's mighty hard to not say anything though, especially with folks with very little experience outdoors.
That said, we must have heard "You ain't going to make it" or "You're gonna die!!" at least 100 times as we went down the Mississippi and Atchafalaya rivers. Same thing on my thru-hike to some extent. I think some folks get threatened by other's trips for some reason and just wanna hammer on them. Don't let the man keep you down!
periods are just the way for corporate america to sell grammar books. realyl they subliminally tell you to place those periods so they can sell more books. CRAP i just helped them sell two more! see what you did!
Mrs Baggins
05-29-2008, 12:40
I have a relative (by marriage only thank goodness) who believes that if a person's physical appearance doesn't fit his "ideal" (preferably thin as possible) then they are obese, lazy, stupid, you name it. We are no longer on speaking terms because he said of my 21 yr old son (who is 5' 11", weighs 250, and is solid as a rock) "I'm sorry to say, he's just fat and it's because he must be lazy and stupid." My son can hike that uncle's boots off any day of the week, but the idiot still believes he's in the right and the more fit of all of us. He immediately judges by appearance (not by race or gender, just body appearance) and makes broad assumptions about people and it sickens us. Those two people on the AT were doing something they should be roundly congratulated for even trying and then sent on with all encouragement. If they stayed home and did nothing they'd be hugely criticized for not "getting out and doing something." While hiking the Table Rock Trail this past weekend we encountered a couple who appeared to be a few years older than us. They both were overweight, moving very slow, wearing the wrong clothing, carrying little water.......we passed them and decided they didn't stand a chance of getting up that rock climb. Two hours later as we were descending we met them again - still on their way up. That's when the husband informed he "wasn't doing too bad for a double amputee!" :eek: Both of his feet were artificial. Not only did we feel like complete crap for assuming they'd never get up there just based on their outward appearance, we knew immediately that had we known about his feet we would definitely have said "No Way! Not going to make it!" and then we felt doubly crappier! NEVER go by appearances and just offer encouragement. If you can't, then just wish them a good day and move on.
SunnyWalker
05-29-2008, 12:41
Dessertrat: " . . . these folks don't belong out there"???!?!?!?!?!???????
Man, I thought we were somewhat enlightened and beyond this kiind of thinking. Who made you judge? Wow. I think you need to re-think this position Dessertrat. I for one would encourage them as they are out there trying to change and trying to get excercise. I don't think they are going to get into too much trouble on the AT.
Experience is a wonderful teacher, if these people have problems I would guess they would take it slower. I would say something to a person only if they were planning to do something with kids that I felt would or could be dangerous to the kid. Other then that, we are all adults and it’s up to us to do as we see fit.
angewrite
05-29-2008, 13:03
periods are just the way for corporate america to sell grammar books. realyl they subliminally tell you to place those periods so they can sell more books. CRAP i just helped them sell two more! see what you did!
I'm assuming that you purposely misspelled "You Are" as "Your" not "You're" in your signature as well. :-?
Pete Moss
05-29-2008, 13:11
I see your issue here dessertrat, it is hard to bite the tounge sometimes. You just want to give someone a reality check sometimes.
But remember, never say never...when you say something is impossible, that makes someone want to do it that much more....Also the old adage of HYOH....even if it does include the cab ride up the hill...
Personally, I dont think that one's ability to thru hike the AT has anything to do with weight, physical condition, gender. It is a matter of really wanting to do it. If some one IS way over weight, then they should start slow (say 5 miles per day) and work up mileage as they feel more comfortable in improve their physical condition. The weight will come off, the body will tone up.
That said.. people SHOULD prepare for the hike or they could be set up for failure. The should get info from ALDHA meetings, white blaze and books so that they know what they are up against and don't try to leave, much less climb up to Springer with 90 + pound packs!
David
100lbs over weight for someone in their 20's. Thats a combination of bad parenting, and not heeding sound advise. I'm sure somewhere along the line they have been told to watch their diet and exercise, and they chose not to. Probably wouldn't listen to you if you did try to give them advise.
Good news, maybe they are now ready to do something about their health. Too bad they are not going about it slowly and methodically, cause they will probably go back to donuts and TV, cause they tried to do too much too fast. Or worse, they will injure themselves.
4eyedbuzzard
05-29-2008, 13:24
periods are just the way for corporate america to sell grammar books. realyl they subliminally tell you to place those periods so they can sell more books. CRAP i just helped them sell two more! see what you did!
Actually, periods, punctuation, capitalization, spelling and proper grammar are necessary to allow people to comprehend what you are communicating; and also, to some extent, to assess the level of importance that they should assign to it.
Just like obesity, it's your choice what type of condition you choose to be in. ;)
bulldog49
05-29-2008, 13:36
Or is it none of my business?
You answered your own question. They are adults, let them make their own decisions.
gravityman
05-29-2008, 13:44
I have a relative (by marriage only thank goodness) who believes that if a person's physical appearance doesn't fit his "ideal" (preferably thin as possible) then they are obese, lazy, stupid, you name it.
*snip*
Food is the new morality.
I see this with a LOT of people here in Boulder. Same with my father-in-law. Instant judgements on people based on weight or what they are eating. If you aren't eating 'right' then you clearly aren't enlightened.
We have a neighbor that said she wasn't interested in being friends with another mom in the neighborhood because 'she just doesn't LOOK like us.' Not because of her ethnic heritage (which is the same as us - anglo), but because of her weight (although not overweight, slightly heavier).
Sad...
Gravity
4eyedbuzzard
05-29-2008, 14:01
I have a friend who is about 5'9", 230 lbs, way overweight from BMI charts, but probably only 30 lbs overweight based on his frame - he's got a huge wide, thick frame. Anyway, he can probably outhike about anybody I know(that isn't in thru-hike condition). Just literally doesn't stop. Really strong legs and lungs. Great cardiovascular condition. Helps that he's only 30-something and hikes regularly here in the Whites. In his case I think it's just long term conditioning - he's been hiking these mountains since he was a kid.
The whole weight snob thing is getting out of hand. Too many friggin' shallow people.
mnof1000v
05-29-2008, 14:03
While I would never suggest certain people "belong" or "don't belong" hiking out on the AT, I think it's entirely fair to suggest an alternate hike to someone in a situation like this. Done correctly, this couple would understand your concern without feeling slighted.
At the end of the day, I think it's about developing a broader base of support for the trail... The more people care about the trail, the better off it will be.
Pokey2006
05-29-2008, 14:13
Would have been a perfect opportunity to suggest a walk to one of the campsites on the canal path.
But chances are, this couple will learn their limitations very quickly. There's no need to spell it out for them. That would only come across as being condescending. And God, how I hate condescending hikers!
Mrs Baggins
05-29-2008, 14:24
I have a friend who is about 5'9", 230 lbs, way overweight from BMI charts, but probably only 30 lbs overweight based on his frame - he's got a huge wide, thick frame. Anyway, he can probably outhike about anybody I know(that isn't in thru-hike condition). Just literally doesn't stop. Really strong legs and lungs. Great cardiovascular condition. Helps that he's only 30-something and hikes regularly here in the Whites. In his case I think it's just long term conditioning - he's been hiking these mountains since he was a kid.
The whole weight snob thing is getting out of hand. Too many friggin' shallow people.
I mentioned my son earlier. He's gone on a couple of 20 mile overnights with us - - he's always ahead of us on the trail and just keeps going and going. Never complains, never seems to tire. He once raced me up a fire tower - no way could I keep up. On the other hand, we once took his idiot uncle sightseeing in DC. Within 4 hours he complained of being "so tired" and wanted to go home. We were appalled. We'd barely gotten started and weren't even warmed up yet!
And I absolutely agree about the whole snob thing. We see my mother in law ONCE a year. When we she greets us at the door does she say "How wonderful to see you!" or "How was your trip?" Noooo.......like her idiot snob son-in-law, she ALWAYS starts out with "Oh, you've lost/gained weight." If she wasn't 86 yrs old I'd love to get in her face and tell her "I may be fat but your OLD! I can lose weight, there is no help for you." :mad:
jersey joe
05-29-2008, 14:34
I mentioned my son earlier. He's gone on a couple of 20 mile overnights with us - - he's always ahead of us on the trail and just keeps going and going. Never complains, never seems to tire. He once raced me up a fire tower - no way could I keep up. On the other hand, we once took his idiot uncle sightseeing in DC. Within 4 hours he complained of being "so tired" and wanted to go home. We were appalled. We'd barely gotten started and weren't even warmed up yet!
And I absolutely agree about the whole snob thing. We see my mother in law ONCE a year. When we she greets us at the door does she say "How wonderful to see you!" or "How was your trip?" Noooo.......like her idiot snob son-in-law, she ALWAYS starts out with "Oh, you've lost/gained weight." If she wasn't 86 yrs old I'd love to get in her face and tell her "I may be fat but your OLD! I can lose weight, there is no help for you." :mad:
So what you are saying is that your 21 year old son can beat his mother up a fire tower? somehow that doesn't overly impress me.
brickwoodjr
05-29-2008, 14:36
Anyone that thinks just because someone is big, that they are out of shape/unathletic, has apparently never messed with a samoan.
One possibility is to tell the truth, without being judgemental or condescending.
First, get some background. "Have you done much hiking before?"
Assuming the couple then tells you they tried to walk up the hill near HF and quit.
Remark that the section they are about to hike is considered to be fairly hard. If they express surprise, offer to let them look at the profile map. Maybe remark that YOU find it a butt-kicker, or that that section is famous among hikers as a butt-kicker (albeit an overrated one).
You can share useful information without being rude or hurtful.
All I'll say is it's important how the message is delivered. I'd sooner see new hikers building up to more demanding hikes gradually rather than see them jumping into things they can't handle and quit what might become an enjoyable activity prematurely. It's people in the category I just mentioned who have the most to gain.
Joining a hiking club and talking to one's general practitioner aren't bad ideas. Good advice given respectfully and taken well can serve both parties and the taxpayer well.
I see now, while I was typing, Marta was typing too.
Actually, periods, punctuation, capitalization, spelling and proper grammar are necessary to allow people to comprehend what you are communicating; and also, to some extent, to assess the level of importance that they should assign to it.
Just like obesity, it's your choice what type of condition you choose to be in. ;)
That is true, I would say I spent an hour typing out a response twice as long as my previous post. The long and short of it was " I agree I choose to be so out of shape grammar wise, However I have always been more common sense versed than book sense" , I wanted to show everyone respect by not trying to make them trudge through a 3 page listing. If it makes anyone feel better though I am picking through a grammar book as we speak.:)
workboot
05-29-2008, 14:49
Nope, is it aint for them they will figure it out soon enough......
As Momma Mags always told me as a wee lad "It is not what you say, it is how you say it".
As Marta pointed out, it is possible to offer some friendly advice without coming off as a know it all jerk.
>>see them jumping into things they can't handle and quit what might >>become an enjoyable activity prematurely.
Absolutely! Ultimately, we want people to enjoy the outdoors as much as we do. A balance between being helpful and being overbearing. I think Marta summarized how to do it quite nicely.
Blissful
05-29-2008, 14:52
My hubby is very overweight, yet he plans to go with me in 2011 (if we can get his work in order). Certainly there will be people who will wonder. You should see the looks he got when he did a circuit hike with me over Mt Washington many years back (which he completed). A few then said he wouldn't make it. Made me mad too, but guess, what, he did. But I know that by his hiking, esp a thru hke of the AT, I am helping to lengthen his life by encouraging him to do this great exercise to help the heart, lungs and body in general, the chance for him to lose all this weight and hopefully never put it back on again, as well as enjoying an adventure of a lifetime. Plus he has a back problem, and when he hikes, his back feels better carrying a backpack.
When I start questioning hikes is people who have obvious challenges already without being on the trail like a bad ankle or knee or foot that they should really get looked at or physical therapy to strengthen it so they won't be disappointed and they can complete their hike.
But with any kind of high activity venture like this, everyone should first be cleared by their physician before undertaking it. That just makes common sense.
Mrs Baggins
05-29-2008, 14:55
So what you are saying is that your 21 year old son can beat his mother up a fire tower? somehow that doesn't overly impress me.
I may be a mom but I don't fit the profile much when it comes to what you may be picturing - I'm 4' 10", 115 lbs, in excellent shape, never smoked in my life, and I literally run up and down stairs all the time. To look at him the assumption would be that he'd be immediately breathless, sweating, red faced, and unable to make that kind of climb. But he does it with ease. THAT was the point.
It's none of your business !
Makes me wonder about what people think about me when hiking. Actually no, I really don't give a rat's ass.
I am a good 75 - 80 pounds overweight. Maybe more depending on what chart you use.
I did Wayah Bald through the Smokies last month and am getting ready to head out from Catawba until however far I get.
Am I slow? Yes.
Do I get discouraged? Yes
But hell, I am out there doing what I want to.
futureatwalker
05-29-2008, 15:09
I understand Dessertrat's point, but I also think that some lessons are best learned by immediate experience. The overweight hikers will quickly learn what they can and can't do - just like someone carrying a 75 lb pack. Then they can do something about it, or not. I didn't know much when I started hiking. I hike in jeans, etc., but learned a ton from watching other people, seeing what worked and what didn't, and reading.
I guess in some situations a "heads up" might be warranted. If someone was setting out to climb Mt. Washington without a hat and gloves late in the year, or perhaps descending into the Grand Canyon carrying no water...
Mrs Baggins
05-29-2008, 15:14
It's none of your business !
Makes me wonder about what people think about me when hiking. Actually no, I really don't give a rat's ass.
I am a good 75 - 80 pounds overweight. Maybe more depending on what chart you use.
I did Wayah Bald through the Smokies last month and am getting ready to head out from Catawba until however far I get.
Am I slow? Yes.
Do I get discouraged? Yes
But hell, I am out there doing what I want to.
Amen Sister! You tell 'em! :sun
River Runner
05-29-2008, 15:17
Great response from Marta.
The overweight hikers will quickly learn what they can and can't do...
I think there is a valid concern here, though, when you see someone heading into a situation they will probably have to bail out of. I have more than once passed out-of-shape people who were marooned and waiting for pickup. There was a couple (who were shaped about like the folks dessertrat is talking about) who were sitting on their packs in Tellico Gap. (I think that's the one north of Wesser Bald.) The rest of their party had gone on to Wesser, and were going to have to come around by car to pick these folks up. Fortunately the weather was pleasant and the folks had, of course, plenty to eat. (Okay, that was unkind, but it was true...they were sitting there, eating.)
I think if you see a huge disconnect between someone and reality, you are doing them a favor to point it out...nicely, of course. If they choose to go ahead anyway, that's their perogative.
Great response from Marta.
Oops, and then I go an show my mean side...:D
ScubaDooba
05-29-2008, 15:31
What would you have said? Or is it none of my business?
Well, considering that you said nothing but were compelled...knowing other hikers, I'm sure someone else passing by them might have said something. Who knows, maybe even the cab driver might have said something.
And perhaps this might have been something they were compelled to do. Family member that passed away, or maybe it was on a Bucket List. Who knows? However your concern for them is commendable.
The only way we grow is through our own mistakes. But that goes without saying. :)
Pepper Beard
05-29-2008, 15:32
What would you have said? Or is it none of my business?
I'm not a thru-hiker (YET) but everything I have read indicates that thru-hiking is more about the mental aspect rather than the physical aspect. Many in great shape have not completed their thru-hike for many reasons.
One way to look at this, if the person is overweight and out of shape, hiking will only help them when it comes to this. I rather seem someone try and quit and then not try at all, which is a 100% failure rate.
They went to Snickers Gap? Should have been Rice Cake Gap. I'm just kidding.
My wife is very over weight. Its not something any diet is going to take care of, according to her dietition. Its a health problem. So for all the idiots out there who think over weight and lack of exercize is the reason for everybodys weight problems, think again. Oh, please stop my wife and tell her all about your problems that you have with her and over weight people. I'm sure she'll set you in your place. Flat on your back. Then we'll continue our hike, up and down the AT.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
05-29-2008, 15:45
Hmmmm.... I've had people question my being out there hiking dozens of times. I'm old, hike with two off-set canes and am really 'fluffy'.... it just goes with the territory. I appreciate locals and others who make me aware of really rough terrain or conditions ahead. I opted to change my hike a few times due to finding out that the trail had significant blowdowns or a portion of the trail was blocked by a rockslide or a ford was chest high currently when my damaged leg was weaker.
As to the question: Do you discourage someone? No, but telling them what lies ahead is not discouragement in my way of thinking - it is letting them know what they are walking into so they can decide if they are in good enough shape to tackle it.
minnesotasmith
05-29-2008, 16:08
They went to Snickers Gap? Should have been Rice Cake Gap. I'm just kidding.
My wife is very over weight. Its not something any diet is going to take care of, according to her dietition. Its a health problem. So for all the idiots out there who think over weight and lack of exercize is the reason for everybodys weight problems, think again. Oh, please stop my wife and tell her all about your problems that you have with her and over weight people. I'm sure she'll set you in your place. Flat on your back. Then we'll continue our hike, up and down the AT.
From my older-ex-SD, who became over 300 pounds during adolescence.
Let's see, what are the possible core explanations...
1) She has photosynthetic skin, and can actually MAKE food as plants do? Her skin's not green, so that's out.
2) She can simply create hundreds of pounds of fat out of nothingness? First Law of Thermodynamics says no to that.
3) The 160 extra pounds is made of something else, like bone (one touch says no), air (wouldn't add weight when she's on a bathroom scale), muscle (not for a sedentary person), extra internal organs (would be the first in history for that to explain it), water (easy to tell with a caliper/float test, and diuretics would fix it)?
I think we're left with the extra poundage being fat. That comes from a large net positive balance over time of taking in more calories than are expended through exertion. Now, a person may be less inclined (or able, if seriously physically handicapped) to do more exercise, or more inclined to eat than the average person. Some people may have bodies that are a bit more efficient than others' are. That just means that they are effectively less motivated to fix their situation. It doesn't change its root cause, or what it would take to fix things.
I'd definitely predict that anyone on the planet who weighed 300 pounds who went LD hiking enough (say, thuhiked the AT twice in succession, however long it took) without compensating by massively increasing their food consumption would drop the weight. I lost close to 60 pounds that I needed to lose over the course of my 2006 thruhike. (I take full responsibility for my own often-excessive weight during my life, not blaming it on my parents, TV, McDonald's, etc.) I know for a fact of a 19-YO male hiker who desirably lost over 90 pounds just between Damascus and Katahdin.
The human body is a virtually perfect accounting machine of calories in/calories out. One look at someone gives you a fair running total of their net actions in that area.
They went to Snickers Gap? Should have been Rice Cake Gap. I'm just kidding.
My wife is very over weight. Its not something any diet is going to take care of, according to her dietition. Its a health problem. So for all the idiots out there who think over weight and lack of exercize is the reason for everybodys weight problems, think again. Oh, please stop my wife and tell her all about your problems that you have with her and over weight people. I'm sure she'll set you in your place. Flat on your back. Then we'll continue our hike, up and down the AT.
crap did it again. i had another page long response with no periods. Put to teh point not every over weight person in the US has a " thyroid" problem of all the over weight people i see i have seen maybe...2 or 3 who is actualy serious about losing weight. One person insists on going to wieght watchers meetings for the "support" and to "keep motivated". Guess what if you need a room full of people clapping and cheering you on how serious are you about weight loss to begin with? Then again they stop and get fried chicken on the way home. I do not ever see any of them becoming active. Oh sure they buy the latest work out gizmo on TV but it always ends up in the closet. If your not active you will not lose weight period. To see overweight people on the trail trying to be active and succeeding im proud of them like your wife. However it needs to be accepted a lot of overweight people just resign themselves to their fates after so long and i have no pity for them. For those wondering that also includes them having to pay double price for an airline or stadium ticket cuase they are so vast they take up TWO spots, just like driving a hummer yet crying about not getting the same gas mileage as a geo metro and expecting hummer to " make it work"
I know you're joking around Captain, but you hit a nerve... I am a Weight Watchers Leader. I tried everything to lose weight, and usually lost some, but didn't keep it off till WW. It's not the clapping and cheering that keeps the weight off, it's realizing that plenty of other folks have the same problems. It's learning that taking weight off is not a "quick fix", but a life time of work. The latest gizmo isn't going to do it. It is a "TEAM" approach of think first, eat wisely, attend meetings, and move more. I'll be weighing in at least once a month where I can along the trail. As a Life time member, I know what needs to be done. Lots of people have been successful with WW and I'm one of them.
1., im proud of you
2., my foot always finds a way into my mouth
3., ". It's learning that taking weight off is not a "quick fix", but a life time of work." , is all i was trying to say just came out in a brash..insensitive way.
4., please dont push me off the side of K
Congratulations, Red Hat, on your success with Weight Watchers.
It was exactly a year ago that Gungho and I looked at each other and knew something needed to change. Our lifestyle changed completely. Eating healthy foods and working out 6 days a week. We did our 1st backpack on the AT in July last year. We were only a little over a month into our lifestyle change. If anyone had looked at us when we started, they probably would have said the same thing...'They'll never make it.' We made it! We hiked slow, but we did it. Our second day we did 12 miles--a major feat for us at the time. NOW, you can't get us off the trail and miles come a lot easier. The pain was worth all that we learned. My point is, everyone has to start somewhere. If that couple didn't make it, they didn't make it. It might have been their 'wake up call' if they didn't make it up the trail. Maybe they were like Gungho and I and they had their 'wake up call' and the hike was the beginning for them. It's sort of like those that start the trail with 70lb packs. They only learn from trying. Hopefully they had a safe and good hike.
if it's a friend making a bad choice, you have to decide whether or not to say anything (that's a whole 'nuther discussion). but with strangers, it's none of your business. people make bad decisions everyday: when to get up, how to dress, what to eat for breakfast, how much effort to put in at work, what to eat on their coffee break, what to eat for lunch, how they're going to drive home (route, speed, level of courtesy, etc), what to eat for dinner (healthy/unhealthy, in/out), what to do after dinner (go for a walk, read a book, watch a movie while eating or not eating a snack), when to go to bed, and it goes on and on... each decision results in an outcome which may impact future decisions, and ones life. and each decision stems from a variety of factors, none of which you can control in others, and you can't run around saving everyone...
just say something nice and move on.
splash1986
05-29-2008, 17:58
Hiking=90%mental, 10%physical, but if your not in somewhat of a fit condition, that 10% physical part can be tough.
Pokey2006
05-29-2008, 18:56
Hiking, after all, is just walking. Anyone can do it. It's not like running a marathon or competing in the Olympics...
musicwoman
05-29-2008, 19:05
It's none of your business !
Makes me wonder about what people think about me when hiking. Actually no, I really don't give a rat's ass.
I am a good 75 - 80 pounds overweight. Maybe more depending on what chart you use.
I did Wayah Bald through the Smokies last month and am getting ready to head out from Catawba until however far I get.
Am I slow? Yes.
Do I get discouraged? Yes
But hell, I am out there doing what I want to.
If I ever meet you, remind me to give you a hug. I am about 35 lbs overweight at this point, having lost about 10 lbs so far (thanks to hiking). I am slow and steady, but I love being on the trail and ***** anyone who doesn't like it:)
Frolicking Dinosaurs
05-29-2008, 19:11
Hiking, after all, is just walking. Anyone can do it. It's not like running a marathon or competing in the Olympics...True, but if you can't walk a mile on level ground without experiencing difficulties, you certainly are at risk for a medical emergency while hiking the roller coaster. As a hiker with extra weight and physical maladies, I make it a point not to do anything that would require SAR to come out and haul my rotund dino frame outta the woods.
Since the hikers in this discussion were unable to climb out of HF, it is entirely possible that SAR will have the privilege of hauling one or both out.
I was really at a loss for words, other than words that would have sounded completely cruel.
I know how it is. I've been in a similar situation and decided to say nothing and move on. Who can fault them for trying? Prolly better to die on the trail than on the couch watching Ronco ads. (Well, maybe not for the trail maintainers or EMS guys.)
glacier48
05-29-2008, 19:22
I have to add my 2 cents worth in before I leave for my hike. I am 100 pounds overweight and in bad health. I am leaving for a 3 month hike this summer on the AT. I have a great challenge in front of me and I am proud of myself for doing this.
When you see someone that is very heavy hiking or resting or quitting please remember that there are often reasons behind what you are seeing. I realize that I may be in danger this summer, atleast more than the average person but this is my chance to live life to its fullest.
I have a lung disease that has been in remission for 6 years, the steroids that I was on made me gain 60lbs in 3 weeks. Just when I lost 1/2 the weight my heart stopped and I had a pacemaker installed. I gained 30 more pounds then because I had a heart rate of 28 beats per minute for 2 months. I was told that I could never hike again and I am facing a life span of approx only 4 years from now.
That is if I don't do something to help myself such as getting rid of stress, losing weight, getting my blood pressure down and regulating my heart with exercise. This hike on the AT means life to me, literally. It is a chance at a do-over and I am very excited to be doing it.
If you see me on the trail I will probably be crying, huffing and puffing and swearing. You will probably wonder why I am out there because I am having such difficulty doing it. The AT is a challenge that I feel deep down in my bones. I am tough although fluffy. Please don't tell me that I shouldn't be out there hiking because it is dangerous for me because for me it is much more dangerous to stay home.
Please look at those over weight people and see their potential. Take a moment to look into their eyes and see their need for adventure and a taste of nature no matter how small and how short termed.
Words of encouragement are always welcome as is a smile and a few moments of your time. After all fluffy people can become fit hikers when they get that rush that only hikers can get.
Glacier
mnof1000v
05-29-2008, 19:26
Hypothetically speaking...
If you walked into someone's house, and you smelled gas, wouldn't you advise them to leave? Or at least open some windows?
Or would that be rude? :-?
Lone Wolf
05-29-2008, 19:27
Hypothetically speaking...
If you walked into someone's house, and you smelled gas, wouldn't you advise them to leave? Or at least open some windows?
Or would that be rude? :-?
i walk into burger king every day and tell folks to lay off the fries
They went to Snickers Gap? Should have been Rice Cake Gap. I'm just kidding.
My wife is very over weight. Its not something any diet is going to take care of, according to her dietition. Its a health problem. So for all the idiots out there who think over weight and lack of exercize is the reason for everybodys weight problems, think again. Oh, please stop my wife and tell her all about your problems that you have with her and over weight people. I'm sure she'll set you in your place. Flat on your back. Then we'll continue our hike, up and down the AT.
I am glad you spoke up. Several types of health issues, as well as medications can cause excess weight.
I have known several rotund people that could move like a cat.
Marta had the answer.
Mrs Baggins
05-29-2008, 19:34
[quote=glacier48;632933]I have to add my 2 cents worth in before I leave for my hike. I am 100 pounds overweight and in bad health. I am leaving for a 3 month hike this summer on the AT. I have a great challenge in front of me and I am proud of myself for doing this.
When you see someone that is very heavy hiking or resting or quitting please remember that there are often reasons behind what you are seeing. I realize that I may be in danger this summer, atleast more than the average person but this is my chance to live life to its fullest.
I have a lung disease that has been in remission for 6 years, the steroids that I was on made me gain 60lbs in 3 weeks. Just when I lost 1/2 the weight my heart stopped and I had a pacemaker installed. I gained 30 more pounds then because I had a heart rate of 28 beats per minute for 2 months. I was told that I could never hike again and I am facing a life span of approx only 4 years from now.
That is if I don't do something to help myself such as getting rid of stress, losing weight, getting my blood pressure down and regulating my heart with exercise. This hike on the AT means life to me, literally. It is a chance at a do-over and I am very excited to be doing it.
If you see me on the trail I will probably be crying, huffing and puffing and swearing. You will probably wonder why I am out there because I am having such difficulty doing it. The AT is a challenge that I feel deep down in my bones. I am tough although fluffy. Please don't tell me that I shouldn't be out there hiking because it is dangerous for me because for me it is much more dangerous to stay home.
Please look at those over weight people and see their potential. Take a moment to look into their eyes and see their need for adventure and a taste of nature no matter how small and how short termed.
Words of encouragement are always welcome as is a smile and a few moments of your time. After all fluffy people can become fit hikers when they get that rush that only hikers can get.
Glacier[/quote)
Please know that you are LOVED and ENCOURAGED by most of us! God Bless You for your courage and your determination. If I see you I will cheer you on after I hug you and pray with you for your continued health and hike. I would be honored to spend time with you on the trail.
splash1986
05-29-2008, 19:35
Great post Glacier. I wish you the best this summer, and hope to see you on the trail!!!
I have to add my 2 cents worth in before I leave for my hike. I am 100 pounds overweight and in bad health. I am leaving for a 3 month hike this summer on the AT. I have a great challenge in front of me and I am proud of myself for doing this.
When you see someone that is very heavy hiking or resting or quitting please remember that there are often reasons behind what you are seeing. I realize that I may be in danger this summer, atleast more than the average person but this is my chance to live life to its fullest.
I have a lung disease that has been in remission for 6 years, the steroids that I was on made me gain 60lbs in 3 weeks. Just when I lost 1/2 the weight my heart stopped and I had a pacemaker installed. I gained 30 more pounds then because I had a heart rate of 28 beats per minute for 2 months. I was told that I could never hike again and I am facing a life span of approx only 4 years from now.
That is if I don't do something to help myself such as getting rid of stress, losing weight, getting my blood pressure down and regulating my heart with exercise. This hike on the AT means life to me, literally. It is a chance at a do-over and I am very excited to be doing it.
If you see me on the trail I will probably be crying, huffing and puffing and swearing. You will probably wonder why I am out there because I am having such difficulty doing it. The AT is a challenge that I feel deep down in my bones. I am tough although fluffy. Please don't tell me that I shouldn't be out there hiking because it is dangerous for me because for me it is much more dangerous to stay home.
Please look at those over weight people and see their potential. Take a moment to look into their eyes and see their need for adventure and a taste of nature no matter how small and how short termed.
Words of encouragement are always welcome as is a smile and a few moments of your time. After all fluffy people can become fit hikers when they get that rush that only hikers can get.
Glacier
Mrs Baggins
05-29-2008, 19:36
i walk into burger king every day and tell folks to lay off the fries
You are attempting the "but I just care" argument. Wrong place. You have NO idea why they're heavy. It is NONE of your business. If you can't say an encouraging word then just keep going. Tell me, how long before people like you want to stop "old" people and tell them that they need to go home????? Where do you draw the line???
Programbo
05-29-2008, 19:40
There was a thread on this a long time ago, about whether to discourage someone from attempting a thru-hike. My question is a bit different-- should you ever discourage someone from backpacking due to their physical condition?..........But thinking back on it, these folks just don't belong out there.
I think you are not going to get much support on this one..I agree with you that there are some cases where things are just "in your face" obvious but I found that pretty much no one else here believed that and that it`s best just to let the people go out and try...For a day hike or an overnight I might agree with that to a point but when it comes to a thru-hike I think it`s just cruel to let someone in an obvious bad way and with no motivation go thru all that trouble..I think I may have suggested an easier hike like the C&O Canal if they found the climbs to much at this point
Mrs Baggins
05-29-2008, 19:43
Okay - different situation..........I know of a thru-hiker who broke their ankle in the first 60 miles. They got a cast and decided to keep hiking. Personally I think that's horrendously foolish. How is continued hard hiking on a broken bone okay????? But how many of you "fat people shouldn't hike' think it's completely macho and acceptable to continue hiking on a broken bone???? "By god that makes them a REAL hiker!" I bet 99% of you don't see a problem with that.
I think you are not going to get much support on this one..I agree with you that there are some cases where things are just "in your face" obvious but I found that pretty much no one else here believed that and that it`s best just to let the people go out and try...For a day hike or an overnight I might agree with that to a point but when it comes to a thru-hike I think it`s just cruel to let someone in an obvious bad way and with no motivation go thru all that trouble..I think I may have suggested an easier hike like the C&O Canal if they found the climbs to much at this point
I think we almost agree. What I can't understand is folks that get this wild-a$$ed dream of hiking the whole AT in one go -- when they've never set foot on it, much less spent a night on it, know basically nothing about it, or basically have no hiking experience whatsoever. And yet that seems to happen a lot. Weirder still, some of these gomers actually make it. ;)
mnof1000v
05-29-2008, 19:46
No one is suggesting we tell people to stay off the trail. (Well, except for Lone Wolf, who probably would prefer if no one but he knew about the trail... jk)I think the general question being posed is, "should we suggest alternatives to hikers who clearly don't know what they're getting into?". I say yes. And like Marta said earlier, it's all in how it's said.
It is unfair to make assumptions based on appearances alone, but if I were a noob, talking to an experienced hiker, and I mentioned I quit a section because it was too difficult for me, I would hope they would warn me before I attempted a more challenging venture.
It matters not why I quit the section (ie - weight, health, etc.), it need only matter THAT I QUIT THE SECTION.
This couple probably didn't know what they were getting into.
Skidsteer
05-29-2008, 19:50
...But how many of you "fat people shouldn't hike' think it's completely macho and acceptable to continue hiking on a broken bone???? "By god that makes them a REAL hiker!" I bet 99% of you don't see a problem with that.
No, that's a problem.
That would be stupid unless something is chasing you.
kayak karl
05-29-2008, 19:58
none of your business really. they chose obesity and they chose to hike
got to agree with LW. What if they can't make it. realize it's their weight and they make changes that change's their life forever. an opinion is like an................. u know:D
Lone Wolf
05-29-2008, 20:12
You are attempting the "but I just care" argument. Wrong place. You have NO idea why they're heavy. It is NONE of your business. If you can't say an encouraging word then just keep going. Tell me, how long before people like you want to stop "old" people and tell them that they need to go home????? Where do you draw the line???
lighten up for crissakes. i meant no harm. get a life off the internet
kayak karl
05-29-2008, 20:19
There was a thread on this a long time ago, about whether to discourage someone from attempting a thru-hike. My question is a bit different-- should you ever discourage someone from backpacking due to their physical condition?
I ask because during my recent trip I met a nice young couple in their twenties, each of whom were probably one hundred pounds overweight. In the interest of full disclosure, I am about thirty or maybe even forty pounds overweight myself, but keep somewhat active (I weigh about 220, would be better off at 180 to 190). But these folks each appeared to be over 300 pounds and of average height. They were sitting with their packs outside a hotel in Harpers Ferry, waiting for a taxi to take them to Snickers Gap, where they would proceed south. They had attempted, the day before, to climb out of Harpers Ferry heading southbound, had only made it halfway up the hill, and had headed back into town exhausted. (They also seemed to have far too much equipment, but that's a minor point-- I could have carried either of their packs if it were required that I do so).
I felt like asking them "if you couldn't make it up the hill out of HF, what on God's green earth makes you think that you will be able to make it through the roller coaster?" That seemed cruel. Instead, I mentioned that the climbs can be very frustrating and that it is best, when faced with a tough climb, to take it slow, rest when needed, and keep going until you reach the top, resigning oneself to a pace of 1 mile per hour, or even less, if necessary.
But thinking back on it, these folks just don't belong out there. They themselves had made that apparent by quitting the climb out of Harpers Ferry halfway up-- just couldn't make it. What the hell do you say in that situation? What if one of them falls down a hill and breaks a leg, and rescuers have to risk their own safety to carry a 300 pound person down from the hills? What if one of them falls and dies due to being physically totally unfit? In hindsight, their attempt at backpacking seemed roughly the same as if I were to head off for Everest tomorrow with no preparation and expect to "just do it." Someone would be doing me a favor to tell me to go spend a couple of years getting ready and climbing smaller mountains.
I was really at a loss for words, other than words that would have sounded completely cruel.
What would you have said? Or is it none of my business?
do u tell a person with red hair they have red hair. NO they know it. dont you think they know they are over weight. ive been told i couldn't do alot of things, but i did them eventually. you would be surprised who can out hike you:). you are comparing MT EVEREST to the east coast I 95 trail. get real. we learn more from our failures the our successes. can't succeed if u dont try. i scanned through thread and saw that redhat said it struck a nerve. so i didnt read on.
in short, none of your business. let them hike their own hike. LW was right in the beginning. thread was meant to to hit a nerve:-?
4eyedbuzzard
05-29-2008, 20:24
Misery loves a little company they say. Glad to hear there are others out there who won't give up just because they have to go slower than others. I'm at about half-speed right now compared to where I was five years ago before a series of back injuries left me really out of shape. Didn't gain a lot of weight but went to h**l cardio wise. I'm okay on the flats and downs(always had strong knees), but the uphills are really tough after the first 600 to 800 feet of elevation gain or so if they're steep - and what isn't here in NH? Legs start kind of dragging and out of breath. Gain another 100 feet, rest a minute or two, gain 100, rest... Still recovering from a spine injury and muscle wasting in my left leg from the latest disc blowout. So right now it's <20 lbs including food and water(doc doesn't even like that), 5 to 6 miles per day, and absolutely no more than about 1500 feet total elevation gain in a day. Makes it hard to find a lot of hikes here in NH. Thinking of doing parts of southern VT and MA this summer as well as a few lake and wilderness area hikes that follow lower terrain.
People could research trail guides, profile and topo maps though in order not to wind up attempting hikes that are too challenging for their physical condition. Maybe I just know this from many years of hiking, though I did make the effort to learn about such things very early on. Can't say I think real highly of those who don't know where they're going, how they're going to get there, what they need, etc. Shows a lack of common sense and effort.
In October though, I couldn't walk 100 feet even with two canes and at least that many oxy's, so I guess its all good. :sun I'm gaining on it.
musicwoman
05-29-2008, 20:56
lighten up for crissakes. i meant no harm. get a life off the internet
Lone Wolf is a man of few words, at least from what I can tell on this forum.
He is also a man of even less tact. At least from what I can tell on this forum.
Lone Wolf
05-29-2008, 20:58
Lone Wolf is a man of few words, at least from what I can tell on this forum.
He is also a man of even less tact. At least from what I can tell on this forum.
and your point?
musicwoman
05-29-2008, 21:06
and your point?
Your love of hiking, in particular the AT, is obvious from your posts here.
You are a no nonsense "it's either black or white" type of individual whom one can't help but respect. I know you love the outdoors and have a deep sense of loyalty to those who are committed to true hiking.
Sometimes, however, there is a gray area:).
Life is not all black and white. Sometimes it's a good thing to look beyond what you think is obvious:)
Lone Wolf
05-29-2008, 21:08
you need to look way beyond cuz you ain't seeing what's right in front of you
musicwoman
05-29-2008, 21:12
you need to look way beyond cuz you ain't seeing what's right in front of you
That's my point LoneWolf. Sometimes you need to see BEYOND what is right in front of you.
It's all a matter of perspective. You choose to see things a certain way. I choose to see things another way. Neither way is wrong, it's just different. :)
Lone Wolf
05-29-2008, 21:14
That's my point LoneWolf. Sometimes you need to see BEYOND what is right in front of you.
It's all a matter of perspective. You choose to see things a certain way. I choose to see things another way. Neither way is wrong, it's just different. :)
what's this got to do with fat folks trying to hike?
musicwoman
05-29-2008, 21:20
Fat doesn't necessarily equal inability to hike. In some cases, people hike because they're fat and want to lose weight. Or perhaps there are other reasons.
For instance, I know of 4 different individuals who gained at least 40 lbs after beginning chemotherapy for cancer. Does that make them unable to hike?
Of course not. It DOES put them at a disadvantage physically if they hike. Who is anyone else to say who can and cannot tolerate the AT physically? Not me. I doubt anyone on this board could.
Have a good night:)
Rickosovitch
05-29-2008, 21:23
I think Dessertrat's heart was in the right place even if some might think his thinking about weight-challenged people needs a tune-up. Also, I believe he opted to say nothing and was just wondering if that was the right thing to do. So no harm was done. I like what I heard Wayne Dyer say once. "Many times you find yourself faced with a situation in which you feel compelled to speak, and in which you have a choice. You can choose to be right, or you can choose to be kind. When this happens, always, always choose to be kind." I second that emotion.
Lone Wolf
05-29-2008, 21:23
Fat doesn't necessarily equal inability to hike. In some cases, people hike because they're fat and want to lose weight. Or perhaps there are other reasons.
For instance, I know of 4 different individuals who gained at least 40 lbs after beginning chemotherapy for cancer. Does that make them unable to hike?
Of course not. It DOES put them at a disadvantage physically if they hike. Who is anyone else to say who can and cannot tolerate the AT physically? Not me. I doubt anyone on this board could.
Have a good night:)
i'm sure hiking the trail didn't enter those 4 individuals minds. i've already stated it's nobody's business
OregonHiker
05-29-2008, 21:23
DR:
I think your heart is in the right place. Perhaps the best thing to say that Plan B is going yo be harder tha Plan A and leave it at that.
Gray Blazer
05-29-2008, 21:25
Fat doesn't necessarily equal inability to hike. In some cases, people hike because they're fat and want to lose weight. Or perhaps there are other reasons.
For instance, I know of 4 different individuals who gained at least 40 lbs after beginning chemotherapy for cancer. Does that make them unable to hike?
Of course not. It DOES put them at a disadvantage physically if they hike. Who is anyone else to say who can and cannot tolerate the AT physically? Not me. I doubt anyone on this board could.
Have a good night:)
I've seen a few people who I can say could not tolerate the AT physically. Did I tell them? He11 no!
musicwoman
05-29-2008, 21:26
Then you and I are in agreement. If you said that it's nobody's business earlier, I missed that post.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
05-29-2008, 21:47
Simply being overweight was not the issue - the hikers in question had already tried to climb out of HF and not been able to do so. To me, it would have been a kindness to point out that the roller coaster is as physically taxing as the climb they were unable to make on the previous day -- along with suggesting a portion of trail that is less strenuous.
Glacier, you have my support for your hike. I've read about your plan and you aren't planning to hike yourself into the ground. From experience - start out slow and with the lightest pack that will provide you with comfort - you will build both speed and endurance as time goes on.
Hypothetically speaking...
If you walked into someone's house, and you smelled gas, wouldn't you advise them to leave? Or at least open some windows?
Or would that be rude? :-?
very clear case of emergency... you tell them...
overweight hikers, no emergency... pending emergency maybe...
musicwoman
05-29-2008, 21:55
If you truly believe in the HYOH philosophy, then while pointing out that the next section might be horrendous (as in "wow, that Roller Coaster is really a killer") in a nice way, I really don't know how warning anyone off the trail would jibe with that.
How about if you are asked?
musicwoman
05-29-2008, 22:09
How about if you are asked?
Completely different situation. I don't believe the original poster put forward that scenario.
Live and Let Live!
My sentiments exactly mrc237.
As to those who think emoting anything negative, well... ..Wow!
I can think of no better place to turn a life style around than the Appalachian Trail. The trail is not wilderness it does not have dire consequences for daily failure, it is only as hard as one wants to make it.
When I started my thru I was in terrible shape. However, hiking distance on the AT is like living at the gym, a guaranteed workout every day. My only thought would be to disabuse a struggling hiker of the idea that, in the beginning, miles actually count. Most of my physical pain in the first month was from the silly idea that I had to make X miles per day. Most all of my mental pain was from the crap I gave my self when I fell short of the self imposed or peer imposed mileage goal.
Physiology will dictate initial mileage and residence on the trail will assure tomorrow’s workout and the next and the next. Total immersion it's the best way to learn a new language and the best way to change life style. Cold turkey!
Also, physical endurance will improve each week. The physical limits experienced today will be halved in a month even with moderate 5-8 mile days. As a doctor I would say they have a much better chance of truly changing a current deadly life routine on the trail than by going back home and falling back into poor habits. Einstonian thought works here "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Sounds like the hikers in question have a firm grip on sanity to me.
Knowing human nature as we do then pushing these obese hikers to go home is might be tantamount to pushing them into an early grave.
Back to the trail as wilderness, that’s just an illusion as we all know. If a hiker gets in to extremis all they need to do is turn right or left and walk for about a mile and shazam, civilization. We’re not talking Alexander Super Tramp going into the wild with 50 pounds of rice a .22. and unrealistic goals. The goals of the mentioned hikers are safe attainable and in short F’n great!
So, it is my thought that any negativity is just a Buzz Kill!
Cheers
Bare Bear
05-29-2008, 22:40
Yep it was none of your business.
I lost 70 pounds on my thru, 30 the first thirty days and it was easier after that. :) That was one of the reasons I did it.
I also spoke to a guy that said he had cancer and had come out to the AT to die doing what he wanted rather than letting a hospital kill him. I heard later on that he did die in a shelter.....I commend folks for doing what they feel is right even if I personally disagree. My opinion has always stopped at the other guys opinion. No one is wrong or right, just different. HYOH.
It's not like running a marathon or competing in the Olympics...
I'd argue almost anyone can do a marathon as well.
Like a thru-hike, a marathon is mainly mental. It is amazing the people who do marathons. Gumption gets you a long way.
SunnyWalker
05-30-2008, 00:06
DR: I guess if you are kind as Marta says, and if they get mad at your or something, well what's the harm in all that? But I think also its neat they are out there hiking. Maybe they quit, but will have inspiration and motivation to return, with changed bodies and all. I must confess that one time I was in Big Bend thirty feet below the summit of a "Mtn". The last 30 called for technical rock climbing. While I had the skill, I was alone. So I was jus sitting there below the 30, on a ledge having lunch. After eating I planned on resting and then "descending" the trail. Well, here come some guys and they just went right up without any ropes etc. As the first fellow started I got up and hiked away muttering to myself, "I don't want to get involved". I guess it might have been better, morally to say something. I probably would have been told to mind my own business. At least though, I would have been "off the hook" in my own mind.
It’s kinda mean to call a person overweight, the nice way to say it (politically correct way) is to call it gravitationally challenged. :cool:
It’s kinda mean to call a person overweight, the nice way to say it (politically correct way) is to call it gravitationally challenged. :cool:
"I see you have a strong, classically Newtonian, attraction to Mother Earth."
How about if you are asked?
Depends if the question is: "Do these shorts make my butt look fat?"
jersey joe
05-30-2008, 08:53
I like it when I see overweight people out on the trail or running through my neighborhood. At least they are making the choice to lead an active lifestyle and lose weight...unlike many.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
05-30-2008, 09:14
Jersey Joe brings up a good point - encouraging people to do something good for themselves. Is it good for me to climb out of NOC with a 50 lb pack on my back, a hundred extra pounds on my frame and no preparation? If I were to pose that question in the health forum, I have no doubt most would try to persuade me to tackle a less strenuous section. Telling a person who isn't ready for such a hike that a less strenuous hike might be better isn't negativity in my eyes - it is reality.
Telling anyone not to hike at all is wrong. I have been told that I don't belong out there as I wobbled down trails with my two canes while re-learning how to navigate roots and rocks. One guy on a horse got really angry when I was out on a trail in a wheelchair because his horse was afraid of the wheelchair and he had to lead the horse thru the woods to get the horse to pass me. Such things might have discouraged some from trying - they only served to make me more resolved to hike again.
Weight by itself does not mean people cannot hike. Some of the strongest hikers I know are overweight. I would never just assume a person could not hike because they were overweight. However, if I encountered the situation in the original post - hikers who told me they had been unable to climb out of HF and were now being shuttled to Snicker Gap to hike into the roller coaster - I would have warned them that the roller coaster was as difficult as the hike they had aborted the day before -- and then I would have suggested another less strenuous hike in the area if I knew of one.
People don't learn to love hiking by running themselves into the ground from the starting gate. They learn to love hiking by pushing themselves a bit, and then a bit more, and a bit more.....
glacier48
05-30-2008, 09:30
I just wanted to say thank you Dessertrat for bringing this topic up. I admire your courage for facing all the comments you received. Some are always extreme. It is nice to have hiking and world issues combined and to give people a chance to vent.
In all reality it was nice that you were being considerate of these two folks. Nothing about you strikes me as being rude, at least by on line standards. I agree with Marta that it is all about the approach. If your intent was pure and good then education and support in a kind way probably would have been excepted. Perhaps sharing your hiking experiences with them might have been a good way around the topic.
I think your heart and concerns were in the right place Dessertrat.
:sun
Glacier
dessertrat
05-30-2008, 09:34
I have a friend who is about 5'9", 230 lbs, way overweight from BMI charts, but probably only 30 lbs overweight based on his frame - he's got a huge wide, thick frame. Anyway, he can probably outhike about anybody I know(that isn't in thru-hike condition). Just literally doesn't stop. Really strong legs and lungs. Great cardiovascular condition. Helps that he's only 30-something and hikes regularly here in the Whites. In his case I think it's just long term conditioning - he's been hiking these mountains since he was a kid.
The whole weight snob thing is getting out of hand. Too many friggin' shallow people.
That's not the case here, however. These were not "fit" overweight people. You can tell the difference by observation. (In fact, you almost describe me above-- I'm 5'10" and 220 pounds, and best weight is 180-190, but the charts say I should weigh about 150-- isn't going to happen).
Trust me, these folks were not "athletically overweight" in the stout but robust manner that I often see. They were woefully out of shape, couch potato types.
dessertrat
05-30-2008, 09:35
I just wanted to say thank you Dessertrat for bringing this topic up. I admire your courage for facing all the comments you received. Some are always extreme. It is nice to have hiking and world issues combined and to give people a chance to vent.
In all reality it was nice that you were being considerate of these two folks. Nothing about you strikes me as being rude, at least by on line standards. I agree with Marta that it is all about the approach. If your intent was pure and good then education and support in a kind way probably would have been excepted. Perhaps sharing your hiking experiences with them might have been a good way around the topic.
I think your heart and concerns were in the right place Dessertrat.
:sun
Glacier
Good luck with your hike, Glacier. (I used to live in Bangor, by the way).
4eyedbuzzard
05-30-2008, 09:48
That's not the case here, however. These were not "fit" overweight people. You can tell the difference by observation. (In fact, you almost describe me above-- I'm 5'10" and 220 pounds, and best weight is 180-190, but the charts say I should weigh about 150-- isn't going to happen).
Trust me, these folks were not "athletically overweight" in the stout but robust manner that I often see. They were woefully out of shape, couch potato types.
I know what you're saying dessertrat. And I don't think that a friendly comment about trail conditions not being any easier are all that insensitive. In some ways they're just the opposite. Like I posted before, I think there is a bit of personal responsibility issue here as well - they should probably research their hike a bit more and choose terrain they can handle without failing in the attempt, which tends to make people give up hiking. There's the other issue of putting themselves at risk of a heart attack as well.
It's a tough call. You want to be nice by warning them but at the same time not be insulting or discouraging.
Appalachian Tater
05-30-2008, 09:52
You should never discourage anyone from hiking because you think they can't handle it physically. They will find out soon enough what their abilities are without anyone telling them.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
05-30-2008, 09:55
You should never discourage anyone from hiking because you think they can't handle it physically. They will find out soon enough what their abilities are without anyone telling them.Finding that out in the middle of nowhere is no fun -- it is downright scary. Finding that out 10 hard miles from the nearest road crossing is terrifying. Been there - wouldn't subject anyone to it knowingly.
This does not quite apply to the situation, but I find myself in similar predicaments fairly often.
I lead many trips for the outdoor group I am active with.
Some of my trips are a "social pace" and are usually mid-week. By that, I mean we go at the pace of the slowest person. The trips are short (3-4 miles max) and relatively little elev gain. It is a good way for people new to the outdoors, Colorado or not in the best shape to feel good about themselves, enjoy the outdoors and maybe feel confident enough to start organizing jaunts of their own.
I also organize other hikes that are a bit more aggressive. I screen those. Sometimes I had to politely tell people that this is probably not a good hike for them. Some people understand (esp. when I emphasize the elev gain), others (usually men. :) ), get upset. Maybe I should let everyone on the hike. That would be the PC "empowerment" thing to do. But, I've been in the position where someone overstates their abilities and causes the people in the hike to prop them up.
Sooo..obviously this is not the same situation (strangers), but as Marta stated, some friendly banter may not be a bad idea.
Nothing is worse than getting yourself in a situation that is beyond your ability/comfort level. It is discouraging and may prevent someone from going forth again into the mountains. Telling people not to go may be rude; giving some beta on the upcoming conditions in a friendly, non-patronizing and helpful manner is not.
Just my .02.
Appalachian Tater
05-30-2008, 10:52
Nothing is worse than getting yourself in a situation that is beyond your ability/comfort level. It is discouraging and may prevent someone from going forth again into the mountains. Telling people not to go may be rude; giving some beta on the upcoming conditions in a friendly, non-patronizing and helpful manner is not. I agree.
F.D., which is more terrifying and a more difficult situation to deal with?
A. Finding yourself pregnant at fifteen.
B. Finding out that hiking is hard ten miles from a road crossing.
C. Going through a bad divorce.
D. Getting laid off from your job when you're broke and have mouths to feed.
E. Weapons of Mass Destruction.
I also organize other hikes that are a bit more aggressive. I screen those. Sometimes I had to politely tell people that this is probably not a good hike for them. Some people understand (esp. when I emphasize the elev gain), others (usually men. :) ), get upset. Maybe I should let everyone on the hike. That would be the PC "empowerment" thing to do. But, I've been in the position where someone overstates their abilities and causes the people in the hike to prop them up.
Sooo..obviously this is not the same situation (strangers), but as Marta stated, some friendly banter may not be a bad idea.
Nothing is worse than getting yourself in a situation that is beyond your ability/comfort level. It is discouraging and may prevent someone from going forth again into the mountains. Telling people not to go may be rude; giving some beta on the upcoming conditions in a friendly, non-patronizing and helpful manner is not.
Just my .02.
I completely agree. The people who are most disconnected from reality as far as their ability to handle a hike/backpacking trip, are often the ones who have the least compunction about expecting other people to bail them out.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
05-30-2008, 11:14
I agree.
F.D., which is more terrifying and a more difficult situation to deal with?First, I dropped 'E' because I'm not going there: For me, in order from least to most terrifying and with reasons given:
Getting laid off from your job when you're broke and have mouths to feed - I know there are programs that I pay into that will help me with this.
Finding yourself pregnant at fifteen - I know that my family would have supported me thru this had it occurred.
Going through a bad divorce - been there, it was painful as hell, but not terrifying.
Finding out that hiking is hard ten miles from a road crossing - in the most terrifying position because I wasn't sure I would be making it out alive.
Appalachian Tater
05-30-2008, 11:18
I guess the hiking one is the only one that you have to rely on yourself for. Unless you have a cell phone and a signal.
if it was a close friend or relative i'd have no problem advising someone not to do something b/c of physical limitations. i know for example, my dad helps me out w/ bigger landscape projects from time-to-time and sometimes i have to tell him not to lift stuff or to take a break b/c he's stubborn and when working w/ me he still thinks he's 40 and not 58... i would expect my close friends and family to do the same for me. anyone outside of that circle i could give a crap - do what you want
whitefoot_hp
05-30-2008, 13:09
Good luck with your hike, Glacier. (I used to live in Bangor, by the way).
if that is you, in your avatar pic, i would be seriously offended if the likes of you told be i was not physically cut out for something.
Appalachian Tater
05-30-2008, 13:28
if that is you, in your avatar pic, i would be seriously offended if the likes of you told be i was not physically cut out for something.http://images.google.com/images?q=bill%20bryson&sourceid=mozilla2&ie=UTF-8&oe=utf-8&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi
if that is you, in your avatar pic, i would be seriously offended if the likes of you told be i was not physically cut out for something.
His Avatar is of Bill Bryson. I think Bryson may have written a book about hiking? I'm not sure. Walk on the Mountain Trail? Walk in the Mountains? A Walk in the Wilderness?
;)
dessertrat
05-30-2008, 13:34
Finding out that hiking is hard ten miles from a road crossing - in the most terrifying position because I wasn't sure I would be making it out alive.
I would add that if you don't have much experience with thirst and dehydration, you may seriously fear that you will die of thirst if you are out there away from water, even if you are not in real danger yet. That is one of the downsides to being a novice.
dessertrat
05-30-2008, 13:35
if that is you, in your avatar pic, i would be seriously offended if the likes of you told be i was not physically cut out for something.
Dude, it's Bill Bryson. I thought most people would get it and find it funny.
Lone Wolf
05-30-2008, 13:36
His Avatar is of Bill Bryson. I think Bryson may have written a book about hiking? I'm not sure. Walk on the Mountain Trail? Walk in the Mountains? A Walk in the Wilderness?
;)
whitey doesn't hike. he's clueless about hikers
dessertrat
05-30-2008, 13:36
His Avatar is of Bill Bryson. I think Bryson may have written a book about hiking? I'm not sure. Walk on the Mountain Trail? Walk in the Mountains? A Walk in the Wilderness?
;)
Walk On the Wild Side?
Frolicking Dinosaurs
06-01-2008, 09:44
I would add that if you don't have much experience with thirst and dehydration, you may seriously fear that you will die of thirst if you are out there away from water, even if you are not in real danger yet. That is one of the downsides to being a novice.I was aware of the effects of thirst and dehydration and water was plentiful - that wasn't my concern. I was out during a period when few hike and alone (He-Dino and I had a huge spat and I got stupid :o)
My leg got so exhausted it would not support me even after rest so I knew it would take days to hobble / crawl out and I was very limited on what I could carry unless I dragged my bag. Ultimately, I was found by hunter who got me to his four-wheeler via a deer sled and took me out on the four-wheeler.
Wise Old Owl
06-01-2008, 11:34
Most of the time I would not say a thing, However, I did see something like this at the bottom of the Pinnicle. After a day of hiking I worked my way down the mountain below the college observatories. There was less than an hour left of light, only to run into a couple of greenhorns just starting out and this was the beginning winter. They were heading up the steep climb I had just come down. The Pinnicle is several miles away and I asked about their trip and that was where they were headed with day packs.... I didn't say anything, My dad (age 70) didn't hold back and told them that the best they could do was hill top and have to come straight back down as night was coming and it would be very cold & windy. Didn't seem to bother them, they kept going up.
Programbo
06-01-2008, 19:05
He was a she?
:eek:.....Not that there`s anything wrong with that