dogs in shelters

[4eyedbuzzard]

Gotta say, I think I'd be more worried about saving my set from the jaws of death first...

[DavidNH]

well yup. This is much more round and round than straight forward. In the first place nothing on white blaze is ever straight forward.

And because The thread is about dogs in shelters it will continue to go round and round until a moderator decided the dead horse is sufficiently beaten and the thread gets closed.

Personally... my feeling is if some hiker has a quiet dog, keeps it on the other side of the shelter and the dog makes no noise, then all is cool. If the dog barks, annoys, or walks with its wet feet over someone's gear.. then it has no place. And people take precedence over dogs in shelters.. no exceptions.

No one will change my mind just as we won't change yours. So why does this issue keep getting hashed over?


David

[Sidewinder]

Three hikers are in a shelter when a fourth hiker with a dog shows up. He/she starts unpacking in the shelter where the three hikers have already set up. The dog is walking around on their gear, sniffing their stuff, just doing what dogs do while it's owner says nothing. You're one of the original three hikers and you politely ask the owner to remove the dog and tie the it up away from the shelter, owner refuses with something like my dog has as much right in the shelter as you do. What are you going to do?

[4eyedbuzzard]

Depends upon my estimation of if the dog owner can take me, and if I'll have the support of the other two hikers, us out. If I don't think the dog owner can do it, I'd physically remove the dog myself.

[rafe]

Three hikers are in a shelter when a fourth hiker with a dog shows up. He/she starts unpacking in the shelter where the three hikers have already set up. The dog is walking around on their gear, sniffing their stuff, just doing what dogs do while it's owner says nothing. You're one of the original three hikers and you politely ask the owner to remove the dog and tie the it up away from the shelter, owner refuses with something like my dog has as much right in the shelter as you do. What are you going to do?

Tough one. But I'm not one to get physical on strangers, even when they're acting like *holes. I'm more likely to depart the scene. But that's just me, I guess. Discretion is the better part of valor.

[saimyoji]

Tough one. But I'm not one to get physical on strangers, even when they're acting like *holes. I'm more likely to depart the scene. But that's just me, I guess. Discretion is the better part of valor.


obviously an ahole dog owner and obviously you let them intimidate you. grow a set next time

..........

[Wags]

lw if you're in central PA this summer at all let me know. i'll bring a dog to your campsite and we can hang out.

[Lone Wolf]

lw if you're in central PA this summer at all let me know. i'll bring a dog to your campsite and we can hang out.

will do

[CrumbSnatcher]

Personally... my feeling is if some hiker has a quiet dog, keeps it on the other side of the shelter and the dog makes no noise, then all is cool. If the dog barks, annoys, or walks with its wet feet over someone's gear.. then it has no place. And people take precedence over dogs in shelters.. no excepti


David
SIMPLE AS THAT...i hiked alot with my dog over the years and i think it is best to keep dogs out of the shelters in the evenings,especially if the shelter even begins to fill up. the ground would be so much better on thier hips while sleeping they would be more comfortable and less stressed around so many people. alot of people on here stressing out hard about this issue,but the dogs are also stressed too,hell i'm sure if they could talk. they'd prefer tenting too. less chance of them being stepped on,or them stepping on peoples gear also. i'd like to hear LaurieP or A.T.C.s thought on dogs. i'd still like to be able to duck into a shelter once in awhile for a break with my dog if it was storming out, or trying to set up in a storm around the shelter somewhere.

[rafe]

i'd like to hear LaurieP or A.T.C.s thought on dogs.

IIRC, the "official" AT attitude is, "Leave the dog at home," followed by -- if you're going to do it, be aware that it's a huge responsibility. Ah... here's (http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.jkLXJ8MQKtH/b.795337/k.9784/Hiking_with_Dogs.htm) the page on dogs at the ATC web site. With regard to dogs at shelters, here's "the word":
Take special measures at shelters. Leash your dog in the shelter area, and ask permission of other hikers before allowing your dog in a shelter. Be prepared to "tent out" when a shelter is crowded, and on rainy days.

[CrumbSnatcher]

IIRC, the "official" AT attitude is, "Leave the dog at home," followed by -- if you're going to do it, be aware that it's a huge responsibility. Ah... here's (http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.jkLXJ8MQKtH/b.795337/k.9784/Hiking_with_Dogs.htm) the page on dogs at the ATC web site. With regard to dogs at shelter's here's "the word":
Take special measures at shelters. Leash your dog in the shelter area, and ask permission of other hikers before allowing your dog in a shelter. Be prepared to "tent out" when a shelter is crowded, and on rainy days.

ask permission before letting the dog in the shelter,means the never,never,never allow dogs in the shelter is peoples opionion. but not the opionions that count.

[CrumbSnatcher]

the reason for leaving the dog at home is not to keep them out of the shelters,its to keep the dog from getting injured by the miles,snakes,animals,heat,etc... too many dog owners trying to golite,or make the dog keep up to thier hike instead of hiking the dogs hike...

[superman]

This thread is like picking a scab. You know you shouldn't but what the heck.
I have a long list of reasons to not stay in shelters with or without a dog but one of them is that it just makes sense to avoid the "bad" people that stay in shelters. The only difference in storms for Winter and I is that she got into the tent as soon as I got it up. While I never consulted Winter on the matter it seemed like she liked tenting. She was relaxed in the tent maybe because we were closed in. In the heat of the summer I left the fly off the slick rock tent and Winter stayed awake half the night just looking at the little critters running around.

[CrumbSnatcher]

and dog packs and anyone making excuses for dog packs are just ultralite wennies. my dog is a working dog my ass, aren't they are on vacation too? and bring along treats,medicines,sleeping pad,booties and anything else the dog wants. because they deserve it and you owe it to them...

[rafe]

This thread is like picking a scab. You know you shouldn't but what the heck.
I have a long list of reasons to not stay in shelters with or without a dog but one of them is that it just makes sense to avoid the "bad" people that stay in shelters.

Now that's quite an ignorant remark, right there. But suit yourself, if you choose to believe that... :rolleyes:

[Lone Wolf]

and dog packs and anyone making excuses for dog packs are just ultralite wennies. my dog is a working dog my ass, aren't they are on vacation too? and bring along treats,medicines,sleeping pad,booties and anything else the dog wants. because they deserve it and you owe it to them...

i don't know how many dogs i see every year tied up outside dot's or the pizza joint with their dog packs still on while the douche owners are inside eating/drinking in air condition

[Dirtygaiters]

Three hikers are in a shelter when a fourth hiker with a dog shows up. He/she starts unpacking in the shelter where the three hikers have already set up. The dog is walking around on their gear, sniffing their stuff, just doing what dogs do while it's owner says nothing. You're one of the original three hikers and you politely ask the owner to remove the dog and tie the it up away from the shelter, owner refuses with something like my dog has as much right in the shelter as you do. What are you going to do?

Asking the owner to remove the dog and tie it up away from the shelter is too extreme for a first move unless you're a real big mo fo who has arms like tree trunks. Realistically, it would be best to ask the dog owner first to please control his/her dog. If the dog owner refuses to comply after being asked that, then I'd start smacking the dog's nose and telling it "no", whenever it stepped on my gear, or stuck its nose into my backpack or otherwise did anything I didn't want it to do. If the dog owner gets angry, I'd tell him that if he can't control his dog, I will do it for him. If the dog owner were to become violent, or start smacking my nose, I might fight him..probably not really, though. Most likely I'd try to get the other two people in the shelter on my side and intimidate the dog owner into backing down or going somewhere else.

[CrumbSnatcher]

This thread is like picking a scab. You know you shouldn't but what the heck.
I have a long list of reasons to not stay in shelters with or without a dog but one of them is that it just makes sense to avoid the "bad" people that stay in shelters. The only difference in storms for Winter and I is that she got into the tent as soon as I got it up. While I never consulted Winter on the matter it seemed like she liked tenting. She was relaxed in the tent maybe because we were closed in. In the heat of the summer I left the fly off the slick rock tent and Winter stayed awake half the night just looking at the little critters running around.
dogs are more comfortable in tents,but to many ultralight weenies,that don't have alternant shelter,let me load up the dog pack too with MY crap and not bring them a sleeping pad. or make them crawl under the shelter in the dirt. dumb**** DOGS LOVE TENTS....keep them out of the shelters MOST OF THE TIME.....

[superman]

Now that's quite an ignorant remark, right there. But suit yourself, if you choose to believe that... :rolleyes:

LMAO, which part did you feel was ignorant?

[Lone Wolf]

LMAO, which part did you feel was ignorant?

probably the "bad" people that stay in shelters :)

[4eyedbuzzard]

ask permission before letting the dog in the shelter,means the never,never,never allow dogs in the shelter is peoples opionion. but not the opionions that count.

It often comes down to the problem of some dog owners asserting that their animal has certain "rights", such as to occupy a shelter. Animals have no rights other than not being subjected to cruelty - they are property, not human beings. And any animal rights a dog may have absolutely end at my person, sleeping bag, and other gear.

It's all that simple.

I would have no problem allowing a dog to stay in a shelter while I was there, provided it's owner either leashed it to prevent it from walking all over my gear, or it was well behaved enough to do so on its own or on command. I like dogs - it's idiot dog owners I can't stand.

[CrumbSnatcher]

i don't know how many dogs i see every year tied up outside dot's or the pizza joint with their dog packs still on while the douche owners are inside eating/drinking in air condition
i always took my meal outside to share with beardog in the shade!!! i enjoyed her company better anyway. these kind of people you talk about make me sick.... like i said to you yesterday don't group me with other dog owners.

[Lone Wolf]

i always took my meal outside to share with beardog in the shade!!! i enjoyed her company better anyway. these kind of people you talk about make me sick.... like i said to you yesterday don't group me with other dog owners.
i'm not grouping you, i know you're an exception

[superman]

dogs are more comfortable in tents,but to many ultralight weenies,that don't have alternant shelter,let me load up the dog pack too with MY crap and not bring them a sleeping pad. or make them crawl under the shelter in the dirt. dumb**** DOGS LOVE TENTS....keep them out of the shelters MOST OF THE TIME.....
Are we agreeing or disagreeing?:)

[4eyedbuzzard]

This thread is like picking a scab. You know you shouldn't but what the heck.

Yeah, I'm bleeding again... What a dumbass I am:o

[superman]

probably the "bad" people that stay in shelters :)
Wow...:-? and I didn't even refer to them as evil this time.

[CrumbSnatcher]

It often comes down to the problem of some dog owners asserting that their animal has certain "rights", such as to occupy a shelter. Animals have no rights other than not being subjected to cruelty - they are property, not human beings. And any animal rights a dog may have absolutely end at my person, sleeping bag, and other gear.

It's all that simple.

I would have no problem allowing a dog to stay in a shelter while I was there, provided it's owner either leashed it to prevent it from walking all over my gear, or it was well behaved enough to do so on its own or on command. I like dogs - it's idiot dog owners I can't stand.
if a leash is necessary while not hiking that dog is not trained well enough to be on trail. dogs do have rights! the right to be well taken care of.seeing your best friend as a piece of property is kind of sad. if my dog would of damaged anything i would of offered payment right away,but that never happened in her 6,000+ miles on the A.T. but i know it happens. lots of idiots out there and guess what,not all of them have dogs...

[CrumbSnatcher]

Are we agreeing or disagreeing?:)
agreeing mostly,i'm hard to get along with! my girlfriend says i couldn't get along with the idea of being a millionare if i was to win the lottery. kinda of the type of person that would bitch about being hung with a new rope..

[superman]

agreeing mostly,i'm hard to get along with! my girlfriend says i couldn't get along with the idea of being a millionare if i was to win the lottery. kinda of the type of person that would bitch about being hung with a new rope..
LMAO, well you're the man. Rant on.:)

[CrumbSnatcher]

would it make any difference if the dog and the dog owner strolled up to the shelter with a case or two of beer

[Lone Wolf]

Three hikers are in a shelter when a fourth hiker with a dog shows up. He/she starts unpacking in the shelter where the three hikers have already set up. The dog is walking around on their gear, sniffing their stuff, just doing what dogs do while it's owner says nothing. You're one of the original three hikers and you politely ask the owner to remove the dog and tie the it up away from the shelter, owner refuses with something like my dog has as much right in the shelter as you do. What are you going to do?

that's a no-brainer

[CrumbSnatcher]

well you sum b****** have a great day, i gotta go. days a wasting. hopefully coming thru next year L.W. buy you a beer if you have the time.

[Wise Old Owl]

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg275/MarkSwarbrick/Statuehiker.jpg

Ok, No sniveling. You can't post on Trailplace - No loss there... It's going to be very quiet over there. Hiker Gods are not allowed to volunteer to be Mod's. Just pull up a chair next to fire and keep on postin! -Enjoy the fun LW!

[rafe]

Well done, Owl. The pigeon is perfect.

[Wise Old Owl]

the reason for leaving the dog at home is not to keep them out of the shelters,its to keep the dog from getting injured by the miles,snakes,animals,heat,etc... too many dog owners trying to golite,or make the dog keep up to thier hike instead of hiking the dogs hike...

Uhh can I disagree with this statement??? We all get injuries, Some dogs love this stuff as much as we do. My dad's Jack Russel kills snakes on the trail very professionally. Heat? Its the green mile, On some of the hottest days the trail is cool and the towns are killers. - My dog keeps me in tow with ton's of energy. Everyone's experiences will be different - but because I section hike, I just don't see this as being a problem. Come on Crumb, Take your dog out for a hike...

[4eyedbuzzard]

if a leash is necessary while not hiking that dog is not trained well enough to be on trail.
Please tell that to all the people who let their dogs run the trail out of sight and voice command. Most of the dogs thank goodness are friendly. But I had to fight one off with a staff once - and then the owner got pissed at me. I've never had a wet dog shelter experience, but a few friends have, and it didn't play out well.


dogs do have rights! the right to be well taken care of.
I agree. Hence my no cruelty comment. And I take good care of mine.


seeing your best friend as a piece of property is kind of sad.
That is exactly what they are though under the law. They are not people, humans, citizens, etc.


if my dog would of damaged anything i would of offered payment right away,but that never happened in her 6,000+ miles on the A.T. but i know it happens.
It would be really nice if all dog owners were like you. It's likely you would never have to offer to payment as your dog undoubtably is well behaved and under your control - and more likely this thread would not even exist.


lots of idiots out there and guess what,not all of them have dogs...
I suppose I'm an idiot to those who feel their dogs should have free reign to run loose, do as they please, and have equal legal status with humans. Oh well, if that makes me an idiot so be it. I'll get over it.

[Heater]

Do you prefer your dogs with bar-b-que sauce or ketchup? :D

Chili and onions.

[4eyedbuzzard]

Uhh can I disagree with this statement??? We all get injuries, Some dogs love this stuff as much as we do. My dad's Jack Russel kills snakes on the trail very professionally. Heat? Its the green mile, On some of the hottest days the trail is cool and the towns are killers. - My dog keeps me in tow with ton's of energy. Everyone's experiences will be different - but because I section hike, I just don't see this as being a problem. Come on Crumb, Take your dog out for a hike...

Killing snakes(wildlife) is good? Or even allowed in many areas such as NP's?

Nice photoshop job on LW by the way

[Wise Old Owl]

Killing snakes(wildlife) is good? Or even allowed in many areas such as NP's?
Hey its my dad's dog - it all happened to fast to do anything about it and it was on a leash, It bit it behind the head of a copperhead on the trail and whipped it into the air before anyone saw it. It was weird to see this three foot copper flying in the air. And before it could hit the ground the dog did it again. It is a well trained dog, but we didn't train it to do that, so it caught us all by surprise. Wish I had a video of it. Sometimes stuff just happens, Only the snake got hurt.

[4eyedbuzzard]

Hey its my dad's dog - it all happened to fast to do anything about it and it was on a leash, It bit it behind the head of a copperhead on the trail and whipped it into the air before anyone saw it. It was weird to see this three foot copper flying in the air. And before it could hit the ground the dog did it again. It is a well trained dog, but we didn't train it to do that, so it caught us all by surprise. Wish I had a video of it. Sometimes stuff just happens, Only the snake got hurt.

Hell, I don't really honestly care about the snake that much. And like you said, sometimes stuff just happens - it's pretty instinctive behavior for a dog. I'm more greatful neither the dog or any of you got bit. Just more using it as an example that what may be considered okay and even cool behavior by some isn't always the same as what other may consider okay. Dogs can be pretty high impact on smaller wildlife.

[Heater]

Lone Wolf you had the right in every way to express your opinion in what ever way you like if you didn't threaten anyone and be using fowl language in my opinion.


Does that mean we cannot tell anyone they're chicken?!! :confused: :D

[ofthearth]

This thread isn't very straight forward, more like round and round.

True, but maybe if some dog owners read this thread (I am a dog owner and we don't stay in shelters) they will have a better understanding of how others might feel about their dogs in shelters(or on the trail) and will be more careful or considerate. It should not be the responsibility of the people (if they choose to stay in a shelter) to ask the dog owner to control their dog.


i don't know how many dogs i see every year tied up outside dot's or the pizza joint with their dog packs still on while the douche owners are inside eating/drinking in air condition

A time when you (LW) should have bitched more! Maybe people will see your post and think about it next time.

[mudhead]

..........

[SteveJ]

if a leash is necessary while not hiking that dog is not trained well enough to be on trail. <clip>

I'm a "dog-hiker." If the temps are below 80's and I'm hiking (which is usually when I hike), I'm hiking with one of my sons and my dog, a Siberian Husky. The quote above is completely uninformed, at least for Siberian Huskies. To quote the Siberian Husky Club of American:

"The breed is also not reliable off-leash, and no amount of training can make them so. They were bred to run 30 feet in front of a sled, making semi-independent decisions. Remove the sled and they will be gone. "

http://www.shca.org/8below.htm

My Sibe is ALWAYS on leash (because I love her <sniff> - check the multiple pics in my gallery of her - she's on leash in every pic), and is NEVER in shelters. The closest she's ever been to a shelter is when Scott and I hiked into Carter Gap Shelter from Mooney Gap in the rain. When we got there, it was still sprinkling. We went into the shelter and tied Phoebe up just outside the shelter for an hour or so while we unpacked and dried off.

One regret I have is related to our hike last spring ('06). I tied Phoebe about 10 yards from Hawk Mtn Shelter while we had breakfast. I left her there as we packed up to hit the trail. As we loaded up, Scott went to get her, hooked her to his pack waist belt, and we hit the trail. Much later that day, I was horrified when Scott told me that she had left a "deposit" where we had her leashed that morning....and he hadn't cleaned it up when he went to get her. It was an opportunity for me to give him a lesson on how we're responsible for her "deposits," and just as we would never poop within 10 yards of the shelter and leave it, we should never have left hers....

Irresponsible dog hikers irritate me just as much as they do other hikers. We haven't been on a hike on the AT when an unrestrained dog hasn't run up to us in an aggressive manner while I stepped between it and Phoebe. I haven't "poled" one yet, because it hasn't been necessary (and I blame the human more than the dog); but I'm willing to do so in the right circumstances.....

oh - back to topic - dogs don't belong in shelters - of course, I would never sleep in a shelter anyway, as I sleep comfortably in a hammock while Phoebe protects my pack and belongings underneath the hammock!

[Wise Old Owl]

I feel for the snake.

You are kidding right? - that's a free trail angel dinner!




No professionally trained animals were harmed during the writing of this post. A member of ASPCA was on hand behind me as I typed this....

[mudhead]

..........

[Wise Old Owl]

:p
What's Trailplace?

Honestly? - some second rate WB wanabee!:p


It appears some of us needed to have a second place for some posts....

Just Trolling.

[Skidsteer]

I think the snake had dibs. Don't get me wrong, I plugged Thumper when he was grazing in the lettuce patch. Then I lowered the fence.

If you lower the fence far enough you can plug three rabbits. That's what it takes for a family sized Hasenpfeffer.

[mudhead]

..........

[The Weasel]

This is not a "straight forward" discussion. It should be moved.

TW

[CrumbSnatcher]

Please tell that to all the people who let their dogs run the trail out of sight and voice command. Most of the dogs thank goodness are friendly. But I had to fight one off with a staff once - and then the owner got pissed at me. I've never had a wet dog shelter experience, but a few friends have, and it didn't play out well.


I agree. Hence my no cruelty comment. And I take good care of mine.


That is exactly what they are though under the law. They are not people, humans, citizens, etc.


It would be really nice if all dog owners were like you. It's likely you would never have to offer to payment as your dog undoubtably is well behaved and under your control - and more likely this thread would not even exist.


I suppose I'm an idiot to those who feel their dogs should have free reign to run loose, do as they please, and have equal legal status with humans. Oh well, if that makes me an idiot so be it. I'll get over it.
i wasn't calling you an idiot,but theres plenty of them. all i was saying after your done hiking for the day,IMO you shouldn't need a leash in camp. the dog should behave itself without tieing it up. sorry if i offended you.

[mudhead]

..........

[Skidsteer]

This is not a "straight forward" discussion. It should be moved.

TW

Agreed.

[CrumbSnatcher]

I'm a "dog-hiker." If the temps are below 80's and I'm hiking (which is usually when I hike), I'm hiking with one of my sons and my dog, a Siberian Husky. The quote above is completely uninformed, at least for Siberian Huskies. To quote the Siberian Husky Club of American:

"The breed is also not reliable off-leash, and no amount of training can make them so. They were bred to run 30 feet in front of a sled, making semi-independent decisions. Remove the sled and they will be gone. "

http://www.shca.org/8below.htm

My Sibe is ALWAYS on leash (because I love her <sniff> - check the multiple pics in my gallery of her - she's on leash in every pic), and is NEVER in shelters. The closest she's ever been to a shelter is when Scott and I hiked into Carter Gap Shelter from Mooney Gap in the rain. When we got there, it was still sprinkling. We went into the shelter and tied Phoebe up just outside the shelter for an hour or so while we unpacked and dried off.

One regret I have is related to our hike last spring ('06). I tied Phoebe about 10 yards from Hawk Mtn Shelter while we had breakfast. I left her there as we packed up to hit the trail. As we loaded up, Scott went to get her, hooked her to his pack waist belt, and we hit the trail. Much later that day, I was horrified when Scott told me that she had left a "deposit" where we had her leashed that morning....and he hadn't cleaned it up when he went to get her. It was an opportunity for me to give him a lesson on how we're responsible for her "deposits," and just as we would never poop within 10 yards of the shelter and leave it, we should never have left hers....

Irresponsible dog hikers irritate me just as much as they do other hikers. We haven't been on a hike on the AT when an unrestrained dog hasn't run up to us in an aggressive manner while I stepped between it and Phoebe. I haven't "poled" one yet, because it hasn't been necessary (and I blame the human more than the dog); but I'm willing to do so in the right circumstances.....

oh - back to topic - dogs don't belong in shelters - of course, I would never sleep in a shelter anyway, as I sleep comfortably in a hammock while Phoebe protects my pack and belongings underneath the hammock!
beautiful dog,nice gallery. i believe the breed is also very protective. you knew to keep your dog on leash,i knew mine was trust worthy off leash,i was talking about the hikers that don't know the difference.

[CrumbSnatcher]

[quote=Wise Old Owl;634182]You are kidding right? - that's a free trail angel dinner! or you could buffet on the hundreds of mice the snake would of chowed.

[minnesotasmith]

beautiful dog,nice gallery. i believe the breed is also very protective. you knew to keep your dog on leash,i knew mine was trust worthy off leash,i was talking about the hikers that don't know the difference.

I've owned Siberians. They tend to love everyone, making crummy watchdogs vs. people. Now, if wildlife or other dogs come around, sure, they'll bark their heads off.

[woodsy]

True, but maybe if some dog owners read this thread (I am a dog owner and we don't stay in shelters) they will have a better understanding of how others might feel about their dogs in shelters(or on the trail) and will be more careful or considerate. It should not be the responsibility of the people (if they choose to stay in a shelter) to ask the dog owner to control their dog.




Hear hear!

[The Weasel]

As much as I deplore someone bringing their dog into a shelter area, there is no ownership of shelters "in order of appearance." In other words, those who get there first have no greater rights to the use of a shelter than those who come last, and have no right to ask someone with a dog to move, any more than they could ask a man and with a young son to leave, or tell a woman "we decided this is a male-only shelter." About the only 'rule' there is, is that once a shelter is truly full, people don't have to further squeeze themselves to allow a newcomer except in a storm when there is always room for new arrivals.

Dog owners are being rude by imposing their dogs, I agree, but those who are there already have no basis to tell them to leave.

TW

[ofthearth]

IIRC, the "official" AT attitude is, "Leave the dog at home," followed by -- if you're going to do it, be aware that it's a huge responsibility. Ah... here's (http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.jkLXJ8MQKtH/b.795337/k.9784/Hiking_with_Dogs.htm) the page on dogs at the ATC web site. With regard to dogs at shelter's here's "the word":

Take special measures at shelters. Leash your dog in the shelter area, and ask permission of other hikers before allowing your dog in a shelter. Be prepared to "tent out" when a shelter is crowded, and on rainy days.



As much as I deplore someone bringing their dog into a shelter area, there is no ownership of shelters "in order of appearance." In other words, those who get there first have no greater rights to the use of a shelter than those who come last, and have no right to ask someone with a dog to move, any more than they could ask a man and with a young son to leave, or tell a woman "we decided this is a male-only shelter." About the only 'rule' there is, is that once a shelter is truly full, people don't have to further squeeze themselves to allow a newcomer except in a storm when there is always room for new arrivals.

Dog owners are being rude by imposing their dogs, I agree, but those who are there already have no basis to tell them to leave.

TW


Seems like there is a rule.

[MOWGLI]

Seems like there is a rule.

No, there isn't. There are suggestions for behavior. There is no law or regulation against dogs in shelters on most of the AT. Excepting GSMNP & Baxter - where dogs are prohibited. In fact, leashes aren't required on much of the trail. To me, the leash laws are the bigger issue, both for conflicts with humans and wildlife.

[ofthearth]

As much as I deplore someone bringing their dog into a shelter area, there is no ownership of shelters "in order of appearance." In other words, those who get there first have no greater rights to the use of a shelter than those who come last, and have no right to ask someone with a dog to move, any more than they could ask a man and with a young son to leave, or tell a woman "we decided this is a male-only shelter." About the only 'rule' there is, is that once a shelter is truly full, people don't have to further squeeze themselves to allow a newcomer except in a storm when there is always room for new arrivals.

Dog owners are being rude by imposing their dogs, I agree, but those who are there already have no basis to tell them to leave.

TW

Let me try again. Seems like there is a 'rule' (as used above), or am I missing something here. I find myself drifting to the LW position/corner. Do you mean to tell me if someone shows up at a shelter and it is full of dogs, that person is suppose to stay out and the dogs stay in?????????? Jeesssss, I'm sounding like LW. I don't stay in shelters and either does my dog. I even poked at him this morning (or sometime) and asked if he didn't stay in shelters what difference it made to him. I think I'm beginning to see his point. I don't think they built the things for dogs :-?

[CrumbSnatcher]

No, there isn't. There are suggestions for behavior. There is no law or regulation against dogs in shelters on most of the AT. Excepting GSMNP & Baxter - where dogs are prohibited. In fact, leashes aren't required on much of the trail. To me, the leash laws are the bigger issue, both for conflicts with humans and wildlife.
the only section with a leash law is the SNP and theres 3 places where dogs are not allowed. bear mtn. zoo is the third one...not sure of the rules in national forest areas. oh yeah don't go thru pine grove state park without a leash(ticket fo sur) of coarse all the towns too

[SteveJ]

beautiful dog,nice gallery. i believe the breed is also very protective. you knew to keep your dog on leash,i knew mine was trust worthy off leash,i was talking about the hikers that don't know the difference.

chuckle...no, they are actually not very protective - she's as loyal as the treat that I / you have in your hand.....

[Lone Wolf]

This is not a "straight forward" discussion. It should be moved.

TW

...................

[Lone Wolf]

As much as I deplore someone bringing their dog into a shelter area, there is no ownership of shelters "in order of appearance." In other words, those who get there first have no greater rights to the use of a shelter than those who come last, and have no right to ask someone with a dog to move, any more than they could ask a man and with a young son to leave, or tell a woman "we decided this is a male-only shelter." About the only 'rule' there is, is that once a shelter is truly full, people don't have to further squeeze themselves to allow a newcomer except in a storm when there is always room for new arrivals.

Dog owners are being rude by imposing their dogs, I agree, but those who are there already have no basis to tell them to leave.

TW
.................

[Lone Wolf]

Let me try again. Seems like there is a 'rule' (as used above), or am I missing something here. I find myself drifting to the LW position/corner. Do you mean to tell me if someone shows up at a shelter and it is full of dogs, that person is suppose to stay out and the dogs stay in?????????? Jeesssss, I'm sounding like LW. I don't stay in shelters and either does my dog. I even poked at him this morning (or sometime) and asked if he didn't stay in shelters what difference it made to him. I think I'm beginning to see his point. I don't think they built the things for dogs :-?

....................

[4eyedbuzzard]

i wasn't calling you an idiot,but theres plenty of them. all i was saying after your done hiking for the day,IMO you shouldn't need a leash in camp. the dog should behave itself without tieing it up. sorry if i offended you.
I didn't think you were. It was meant for others who might be viewing. Sorry if you took it that way as well. :)

[sherrill]

the friggin guy lives in a gay community on the left coast. he ain't a hiker. disregard his posts

Don't you think posts like this got you banned on Trailplace?

[Dholmblad]

Why would you care if you got banned from that site? its dead anyways.

I love dogs, but I dont think they should be allowed in shelters.

[Heater]

..........

..........

[Heater]

Let me try again. Seems like there is a 'rule' (as used above), or am I missing something here. I find myself drifting to the LW position/corner. Do you mean to tell me if someone shows up at a shelter and it is full of dogs, that person is suppose to stay out and the dogs stay in?????????? Jeesssss, I'm sounding like LW. I don't stay in shelters and either does my dog. I even poked at him this morning (or sometime) and asked if he didn't stay in shelters what difference it made to him. I think I'm beginning to see his point. I don't think they built the things for dogs :-?

You should'nt be poking the dog.

[Pepper Beard]

Dog issuess... I'm not a thru-hiker... yet. When I'm reading for bed, I don't want a dog around me.... when I walking along the trail, dogs are okay as long as they don't jump on me. I cook at the shelters, then hike a mile or two to set up tent.

[rafe]

Don't you think posts like this got you banned on Trailplace?

self-awareness isn't LW's long suit. ;)

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

Just as not every dog belongs in a shelter, not everyone is a good fit for every internet forum - LW and TP don't belong together any more than I belong over at PBF. LW will never behave to the standards at TP (no cussing and calling people idiots or worse) and I'll never be anal enough to tolerate PBF (post my way or hit the electronic highway).

[rafe]

I suspect that a significant portion of WhiteBlaze's "old-timers" have had the honor of being expelled from the "old" (WF-ruled) TrailPlace. Over the years I've tried to figure out the common denominator among habitual long-distance hikers. I've decided that it's ego.

Besides which there's only so much that can be said about hiking, or about this or that trail, or this or that piece of gear. The old timers are bored with all that, and turn to trolling as entertainment.

LW goes a step or two farther, having practically invented the art of trolling, years before the Internet was a gleam in Al Gore's eye. Something about the beard, maybe.

[Rockhound]

I don't mind dogs in shelters at all. In my experience I've found that they are better behaved than a lot of hikers and generally smell better than most.

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

I suspect that a significant portion of WhiteBlaze's "old-timers" have had the honor of being expelled from the "old" (WF-ruled) TrailPlace. Over the years I've tried to figure out the common denominator among habitual long-distance hikers. I've decided that it's ego.True enough, buut with Wingfoot's TP and Reality's PBF, more users are unacceptable than are acceptable. To me, that says the problem is the way the form is being run rather than rowdy users.

[minnesotasmith]

No, there isn't. There are suggestions for behavior. There is no law or regulation against dogs in shelters on most of the AT. Excepting GSMNP & Baxter - where dogs are prohibited. In fact, leashes aren't required on much of the trail. To me, the leash laws are the bigger issue, both for conflicts with humans and wildlife.

From the ATC's website:

http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.jkLXJ8MQKtH/b.795337/k.9784/Hiking_with_Dogs.htm


Dogs are NOT ALLOWED in three areas along the Trail:

Baxter State Park, Maine
Bear Mountain State Park Trailside Museum and Wildlife Center, New York—alternate road walk is available
Great Smoky Mountains National Park, Tennessee and North CarolinaLeashes ARE REQUIRED on more than 40 percent
of the [remaining] Trail, including:

Delaware Water Gap National Recreation Area, Pennsylvania and New Jersey
Maryland (entire state)
Harpers Ferry National Historical Park, West Virginia
Shenandoah National Park, Virginia
Blue Ridge Parkway, Virginia
500+ miles of A.T. land administered by the National Park Service In practice, it can be difficult to tell when you are on NPS-administered A.T. lands. We recommend dogs be leashed at all times, as a matter of courtesy to other hikers and to minimize stress to wildlife.
Trail ethics for dogs and their owners

People hiking with dogs should be aware of the impact of their animals on the Trail environment and their effect on the Trail experience of others.

Do not allow your pet to chase wildlife.
Leash your dog around water sources and in sensitive alpine areas.
Do not allow your dog to stand in springs or other sources of drinking water.
Be mindful of the rights of other hikers not to be bothered by even a friendly dog.
Bury your pet's waste as you would your own.
Take special measures at shelters. Leash your dog in the shelter area, and ask permission of other hikers before allowing your dog in a shelter. Be prepared to "tent out" when a shelter is crowded, and on rainy days.

[Big Oz]

True enough, buut with Wingfoot's TP and Reality's PBF, more users are unacceptable than are acceptable. To me, that says the problem is the way the form is being run rather than rowdy users.Hikers love to argue and no one will ever change that.When there is a 3rd party smart elioc moderator butting in and then showing their authority as in this case.It only lowers the reputation of that forum.

I feel whiteblaze has done a lot for the hiker community and brought many friends together.It is solely due to minor moderation, period.Even though they argue they love each other and will usually do any thing they can to help a fellow hiker.This is why Whiteblaze is growing and is the most loved hiker forum.Thanks to the owners and moderators here.

Dan Bruce aka wingfoot never ever had a hiker forum.All he had was and advertisement website for his book and a place he could express his sick opinion of the trail.

If you wanted to post on his forum it had to be his sick way or no way.This is why he was hated by all and his forum never amounted to nothing.If he would have been anyone with charactor and respected others and their opinion everyone would have bought his book and no one else's.They would have used his forum and no one else's.Whiteblaze wouldn't have had a chance.Look where his stupidity took him and the reputation he has.

White blaze may get onto members a little now and then.Even delete a post or move it but it don't ban members to show their authority.Whiteblaze has great people who moderate it.

I agree with Lone Wolf "they just started their mission to have the new trail place just like the old trail place".My opinion may not be worth much but banning members because their opinions are different with the moderators,argue and some one expresses their post with a fowl word is means to ban them.I personally don't want nothing to do with them anymore.This is HIKERS not a church group.

[MOWGLI]

Oz. A bit harsh.

1. Trailplace was a good forum in 99. It helped me enormously with prep for my 2000 hike.
2. Wingfoot wasn't "hated by all." Not now. Not ever.
3. He "never amounted to nothing"? His book helped plenty of hikers.
4. Whiteblaze is "the most loved hiker forum"? Maybe. Then again, maybe not. It's certainly not for everyone.

[ShelterLeopard]

What do y'all think of dogs in tents? (Those who've tried it) Does it work out alright?

[ofthearth]

When we take the 2 person tent (hubba bubba ?)in cold weather dogs stays inside (sorta of in/out in/out). When just the dog and I go he stays in the vest. (hubba hubba). Spends most of the time sitting outside to see what is going on. One reason I would rather not stay in a sheler with a dog.

[Appalachian Tater]

Letting it wander about overnight is unacceptable. Someone's dog once woke me up well before daylight tugging on my tent. Why? No idea. I certainly made them aware of it as soon as I was able to move around.

It can also harass wildlife or wander off, permanently. If you don't think your dog can or will, talk to some people whose dogs have, or to the many hikers who have found starving, tick-ridden dogs lost in the woods.

[ofthearth]

Dog is not loose around other people. Don't tent near folks with dog or he is restrained. Dog is trained, 10 years old, has not run off yet. You pay your money you take your chances. I'm familar with the problem(and appreciate your concern) you mention. Have found and called about dogs before.

[superman]

What do y'all think of dogs in tents? (Those who've tried it) Does it work out alright?

Winter and I always tented. It worked great. I stayed in shelters a few time in the Smokies and hated it. I'd tent even without Winter with me...actually we tarp these days.

[superman]

Oz. A bit harsh.

1. Trailplace was a good forum in 99. It helped me enormously with prep for my 2000 hike.
2. Wingfoot wasn't "hated by all." Not now. Not ever.
3. He "never amounted to nothing"? His book helped plenty of hikers.
4. Whiteblaze is "the most loved hiker forum"? Maybe. Then again, maybe not. It's certainly not for everyone.

1. Same with me.
2,3,4. I agree
My only complaint was when WF deleted my journal. On the other hand...truth be known...it wasn't a very good journal anyway. If it had been as good as Datto's I would have been PO. People said they read my journal because it was brief...that was the best thing said about it.

The funny thing about it was, unknown to me at the time my ex-mother-in -law followed my hike vicariously through my journal. She didn't have a computer so every time I posted to my journal my ex had to drive to CT from NH to give her mother a copy of it. The ex-mother-in-law had cancer and passed away not long after I summited.

[The Weasel]

Well, for perspective...

- I live in a town of about 25,000 people. It has gay men and women in it. It also has a lot of Marine, Air Force and Navy vets (strangely, fewer Army, but some). It also has a lot of kids, Republicans, immigrants (and not just Mexican) and Lubavitcher Jews along with all the other things that make a place a good place to live, as well as some bad streets and a few bigots. So it's like your town, or even Damascus, in most ways: It's a nice town, and a good place for people to live.

- I hike. Not as much as I want (who does?) but I do because I've done it since around 1958 when I joined Boy Scouts, and for pretty much all the reasons Tom Petty mentioned in "Learning to Fly." I've hiked places some of you have, and places some of you haven't. Including with Chase the Incredible Rocket Dog. And often without him. (And, by the way, always on his beloved retractible leash.)

- Ignore me all you want, or not. That's up to you. So far, though, I don't see a lot of disagreement with my experience or suggestions (no, it's not a "rule"; how could it be?) about who decides who gets to be at a shelter. But if you disagree, that's OK. The AT - as do most trails - has room for a lot of opinions.

The Weasel

[The Weasel]

What do y'all think of dogs in tents? (Those who've tried it) Does it work out alright?

It works for Chase and me, but with a few planning items:

1) I make sure he takes his flea meds regularly, and even a little early.
2) He has his own small piece of ground pad and a towel on it for comfort.
3) I take an OTC allergy pill before bedtime, since the head-end of my tent is near the door, and Chase needs to be near it, too to get out, so I end up getting a head full of dog dander and congestion unless I take an allergy pill.
4) He tends to wake up a couple times a night and get alert when he hears night foragers nearby, but usually doesn't get feisty unless they come close, when he will growl. Occasionally there will be a "hiss" in response, which tells me that he has gotten a coon or skunk or whatever to stop from coming closer. The wakeups are a tradeoff for the watchdogging.

TW

[CrumbSnatcher]

As much as I deplore someone bringing their dog into a shelter area, there is no ownership of shelters "in order of appearance." In other words, those who get there first have no greater rights to the use of a shelter than those who come last, and have no right to ask someone with a dog to move, any more than they could ask a man and with a young son to leave, or tell a woman "we decided this is a male-only shelter." About the only 'rule' there is, is that once a shelter is truly full, people don't have to further squeeze themselves to allow a newcomer except in a storm when there is always room for new arrivals.

Dog owners are being rude by imposing their dogs, I agree, but those who are there already have no basis to tell them to leave.

TW this has nothing to do with the dogs, but the A.T.C. and any/all other info says different. the shelters are all on a first come first serve basis.

[MOWGLI]

My only complaint was when WF deleted my journal.

He deleted mine too. One day after I spent about 6 hours going through and correcting spelling errors and typos my transcriber (mom) made. :mad: But that was his right I suppose. He owned the server. I just wish he'd told me (and others) first.

True story, and somewhat off topic. At the 2005 SORUCK, I gave a presentation and I mentioned to some folks that I was offering my (then) 15 year old daughter $1 a journal entry to retype the thing from a copy my transcriber had printed out. Clyde, from this site says to me "I have a copy of your journal." I thought he was kidding at first, but he wasn't. He read my journal in 2000, and had a complete electronic copy of it. I was astonsihed, and somewhat flattered at the same time.

I never did take Clyde up on his offer of giving me a copy, and my daughter thought $1 an entry wasn't worth her time. The kids these days. Give 'em everything, and they don't want to work. :) I retyped the whole damned thing into Trailjournals myself.

[CrumbSnatcher]

i have moved out of shelters often to make room for others ,not only because i had a dog either. a father/daughter rolled into seth warner shelter late afternoon in a rain storm. looking for room in the shelter. i put my tent up for them.(i did not have my dog this section) is dogs in the shelter the only problem or could some of the problem be with a lot of hikers not wanting to carry the extra wieght of a shelter. planning on shelters every night. not prepared or able to tent/tarp...

[kanga]

I LOVE HIKING IN THE SMOKIES,why?I love dogs at peoples home but not on the trail.Dogs are fine but 999 out of a 1000 owners are never responsible.I personally think dogs should be banned from the trail period but people with a dog feel their dog is perfect and all others should bow down to their wishes.

Usually women with dogs are the worst.Sorry I am not picking on women,My girlfriend is one and so is my mother and sisters but the truth is the truth.

Lone Wolf you had the right in every way to express your opinion in what ever way you like if you didn't threaten anyone and be using fowl language in my opinion.

Bob, I met you in NJ and I thought when you took over Trail Place and the thru hiker guide you would be someone with charactor to all hikers and their opinion.I was so proud to tell fellow hikers that you probably would really get a good thing going.

I also bought a couple of your 2008 thru hiker guides.I gave one to my brother which is on the trail in Va at the moment.Right now I just threw the other one in the trash.Go ahead and let your moderators be that way.That is why whiteblaze is where it is and I am afraid you just ditched trail place.You won't get another dime from me ever or any support.:mad:And for 7 sisters Stay over there on trail place where you are needed.Thanks Lone Wolf for your opinion:D

you're the kind of person that makes me wish i'd taught at least one of my dogs to "sic balls"...

[Wise Old Owl]

you're the kind of person that makes me wish i'd taught at least one of my dogs to "sic balls"...


:eek:Wow Kanga! You Go Girl!


Make sure you get it on Youtube!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TE7sCSyhuOg

[MOWGLI]

From the ATC's website:

http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.jkLXJ8MQKtH/b.795337/k.9784/Hiking_with_Dogs.htm


Dogs are NOT ALLOWED in three areas along the Trail:

Baxter State Park, Maine
Bear Mountain State Park Trailside Museum and Wildlife Center, New York—alternate road walk is available
Great Smoky Mountains National Park, Tennessee and North CarolinaLeashes ARE REQUIRED on more than 40 percent
of the [remaining] Trail, including:

Delaware Water Gap National Recreation Area, Pennsylvania and New Jersey
Maryland (entire state)
Harpers Ferry National Historical Park, West Virginia
Shenandoah National Park, Virginia
Blue Ridge Parkway, Virginia
500+ miles of A.T. land administered by the National Park Service In practice, it can be difficult to tell when you are on NPS-administered A.T. lands. We recommend dogs be leashed at all times, as a matter of courtesy to other hikers and to minimize stress to wildlife.
Trail ethics for dogs and their owners

People hiking with dogs should be aware of the impact of their animals on the Trail environment and their effect on the Trail experience of others.

Do not allow your pet to chase wildlife.
Leash your dog around water sources and in sensitive alpine areas.
Do not allow your dog to stand in springs or other sources of drinking water.
Be mindful of the rights of other hikers not to be bothered by even a friendly dog.
Bury your pet's waste as you would your own.
Take special measures at shelters. Leash your dog in the shelter area, and ask permission of other hikers before allowing your dog in a shelter. Be prepared to "tent out" when a shelter is crowded, and on rainy days.

Nothing about my post was misleading. It was factually accurate. Excepting the point about dogs not being permitted in the .2 or so miles of the Bear Mountain Zoo. :rolleyes:

The fact remains that hikers can leave their dogs off leash for most of the Appalachian Trail, and be in compliance with laws and regulations governing pets.

You may not like that, and I'm certainly not recommending that people leave their dog off leash. The ATC's recommendations are wise. I suggest people pay heed. But they are recommendations. Not regulations.

Facts are facts. And all the bold font in the world isn't going to change that.

[kanga]

:eek:Wow Kanga! You Go Girl!


Make sure you get it on Youtube!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TE7sCSyhuOg

I can't breathe!! My stomach!! LMAO!

[Wise Old Owl]

Nothing about my post was misleading. It was factually accurate. Excepting the point about dogs not being permitted in the .2 or so miles of the Bear Mountain Zoo. :rolleyes:

The fact remains that hikers can leave their dogs off leash for most of the Appalachian Trail, and be in compliance with laws and regulations governing pets.


Facts are facts. And all the bold font in the world isn't going to change that.

Mogli, Step away from the Troll, Do not reach out, Do not Feed, Keep all your fingers in your pockets. MS has been reported to the ASPCA for excessive beating dogs & theads to death.
:D

[dessertrat]

You may not like that, and I'm certainly not recommending that people leave their dog off leash. The ATC's recommendations are wise. I suggest people pay heed. But they are recommendations. Not regulations.

Facts are facts. And all the bold font in the world isn't going to change that.

I saw a newborn fawn next to the trail the other day. Many dogs off leash would have been on it and have bitten it full of holes before the "well intended" owner could have done anything about it.

It would be a tough lesson to learn in such a fashion.

[MOWGLI]

I saw a newborn fawn next to the trail the other day. Many dogs off leash would have been on it and have bitten it full of holes before the "well intended" owner could have done anything about it.

It would be a tough lesson to learn in such a fashion.

Good point. Agreed.

My point is... people who pretend that the regulations are something other than what they are are dishonest. Or perhaps delusional.

It's about education. That's something that zealots are rarely good at.

[Wise Old Owl]

You are kidding right? - that's a free trail angel dinner!


or you could buffet on the hundreds of mice the snake would of chowed.


Ok - I will bite, this is some comedy, next time that happens, I will drop the the Copper into a stuff sack and drop him off at the next shelter for Superman's "bad people" (He didn't say evil this time) to be well fed on Shelter Mice.... Now we won't have to worry about poorly trained people of "dogs in shelters.":D

Mudhead replies

......................

No, I REALLY AM JOKING!

[Wise Old Owl]

I saw a newborn fawn next to the trail the other day. Many dogs off leash would have been on it and have bitten it full of holes before the "well intended" owner could have done anything about it.

It would be a tough lesson to learn in such a fashion.

I have to argue about that - 1. Fawns have absolutly no oder to give them away. 2. Their instict when mom is away is to not move and bed down. 3. I have seen this several times; most dogs will walk right by. 4. Dumb people pick up the fawns and take them to vets & shelters thinking they are abandoned. - They are wrong.

Dessertrat, don't take that personnally, I learned that one from a registered wildlife vet... quite an interesting conversation.

[woodsy]

Took my mutt for a walk in the woods off leash(backyard) recently. When he stopped following and didn't arrive home with me I figured he found something of interest.
He showed up about 5-10 mins. later and acted like he had something in his mouth with the lip smacking going on.
Took a look in his mouth and found one lone Porcupine Quill dead center on top of the tongue back in about 5 inches...yarded it out with my fingers.
And I thought he had learned his lesson already! Well, he did get away with only one to sting him, seen dogs alot worse off and needing Vet services for the painful extraction of many quills.
Just another good reason to keep em leashed, BTW, there were no shelters around so he wasn't in one.

[dessertrat]

I have to argue about that - 1. Fawns have absolutly no oder to give them away. 2. Their instict when mom is away is to not move and bed down. 3. I have seen this several times; most dogs will walk right by. 4. Dumb people pick up the fawns and take them to vets & shelters thinking they are abandoned. - They are wrong.

Dessertrat, don't take that personnally, I learned that one from a registered wildlife vet... quite an interesting conversation.

The interesting thing is that I would have walked right by this one, except that it bleated at me, and while it did not get up, it moved around quite a bit. So apparently this fawn had not had the same discussion with the registered wildlife vet.

[mudhead]

How far did that tounge stretch out?

Did his eyeballs spin?

[woodsy]

How far did that tounge stretch out?

Did his eyeballs spin?
As you can imagine, he wasn't too happy about having his jaws pried open with both my hands in there yanking on his tongue:rolleyes::D
He's getting better at the quill avoidance thang, last time there were 5 quills in his snout which I yanked with pliers:eek:

[Wise Old Owl]

The interesting thing is that I would have walked right by this one, except that it bleated at me, and while it did not get up, it moved around quite a bit. So apparently this fawn had not had the same discussion with the registered wildlife vet.


Ok I am LMAO - guess that fawn just isn't going to make it...

[Marta]

I have to argue about that - 1. Fawns have absolutly no oder to give them away. 2. Their instict when mom is away is to not move and bed down. 3. I have seen this several times; most dogs will walk right by. 4. Dumb people pick up the fawns and take them to vets & shelters thinking they are abandoned. - They are wrong.

Dessertrat, don't take that personnally, I learned that one from a registered wildlife vet... quite an interesting conversation.

I met a NOBO in '06 who was hiking with a rather small dog. The owner reported to me that the dog had killed a fawn.

"Most dogs" is not the same as "all dogs."

[dessertrat]

Ok I am LMAO - guess that fawn just isn't going to make it...

Yup, it seems contrary to good evolutionary practice, but that's what it did. Shoot me your email address and I'll send a photo of it. (I cannot for some reason paste it here-- can't figure out why).

[woodsy]

Yup, it seems contrary to good evolutionary practice, but that's what it did.
Probably thought you were its mama:)

[Alligator]

Yup, it seems contrary to good evolutionary practice, but that's what it did. Shoot me your email address and I'll send a photo of it. (I cannot for some reason paste it here-- can't figure out why).Did you try uploading through the manage attachments button? It's located in the Additional Options window below the Reply to Thread window.

[mudhead]

As you can imagine, he wasn't too happy about having his jaws pried open with both my hands in there yanking on his tongue:rolleyes::D
He's getting better at the quill avoidance thang, last time there were 5 quills in his snout which I yanked with pliers:eek:

Not much that is more slippery than a slobbery dog tounge you need to get hold of...

For you nondog types, think 5" cholla spine, not in your leg, in your tounge.

Next, your hound will start eating deer poo, and getting chunks in his whiskers. Which is OK, cuz he isn't in a shelter.

[superman]

Winter has been close to nose to nose with both skunks and porcupines with no bad effect. How ever, I gave a hiker and her dog to the vet because of massive amounts of porcupine quills in the dogs face and mouth.
One day, Winter was within 5 feet of me when a fawn had been right at the edge of the trail. Winter was right next to the fawn when it bolted. Winter just stood there and watched it run. We had similar encounters with birds next to the trail and Winter reacted in the same way.
Some dogs are game dogs and some aren't but socializing the dog to other kinds of animals helps.
This is a whole post without me mentioning that shelters are the source of all evil.:)

[Appalachian Tater]

How ever, I gave a hiker and her dog to the vet because of massive amounts of porcupine quills in the dogs face and mouth.
This sort of thing is just terrible. That dog owner should be charged with neglect and be forced to pay a large ($1,000+) fine for not having the dog leashed and thus allowing harm to come to it. If it happens again, she should have porcupine quills jabbed into her face just like happened to the dog.

[superman]

This sort of thing is just terrible. That dog owner should be charged with neglect and be forced to pay a large ($1,000+) fine for not having the dog leashed and thus allowing harm to come to it. If it happens again, she should have porcupine quills jabbed into her face just like happened to the dog.

Around here pocupines are almost every where...around houses too. My mail lady's dog goes out of it's way to find porcupines to get quills from, in it's own yard. Some dogs learn to leave the porcupines alone and some don't. NO ONE is going to keep their dog on a leash every where...some dogs will get quilled.
People shouldn't let their dog ride in a car with it's head out the window... but they do. That is my vets pet peeve.
There's the world that should be and the world that is. I'm not a collectivist who tells others what they gotta do. I just cast bad thoughts at them...did you feel that?:)

[mudhead]

I had a rabbit on the front porch yesterday AM.

Nature channel out the window.

Thumper better tread lightly...

[kanga]

This sort of thing is just terrible. That dog owner should be charged with neglect and be forced to pay a large ($1,000+) fine for not having the dog leashed and thus allowing harm to come to it. If it happens again, she should have porcupine quills jabbed into her face just like happened to the dog.

are you joking or are you just seriously an idiot?

[Lone Wolf]

are you joking or are you just seriously an idiot?

the latter

[The Old Fhart]

Kanga-"...or are you just seriously an idiot?"...or should that be a 'serious idiot'?:-?

[Wise Old Owl]

This sort of thing is just terrible. That dog owner should be charged with neglect and be forced to pay a large ($1,000+) fine for not having the dog leashed and thus allowing harm to come to it. If it happens again, she should have porcupine quills jabbed into her face just like happened to the dog.


are you joking or are you just seriously an idiot?

Kanga - That's a Seriously Hot-headed Idiot Troll now look away from the laptop and swear never to feed the Troll!

Oops- an ancronym.

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff271/Taranes/Do-not-feed-the-troll.jpg

[Appalachian Tater]

Around here pocupines are almost every where...around houses too. My mail lady's dog goes out of it's way to find porcupines to get quills from, in it's own yard. Some dogs learn to leave the porcupines alone and some don't. NO ONE is going to keep their dog on a leash every where...some dogs will get quilled.
People shouldn't let their dog ride in a car with it's head out the window... but they do. That is my vets pet peeve.
There's the world that should be and the world that is. I'm not a collectivist who tells others what they gotta do. I just cast bad thoughts at them...did you feel that?:)

Humans have a duty to protect other animals from harmful actions by humans.

[Appalachian Tater]

Kanga - That's a Super Idiot Troll now look away from the laptop and swear never to feed the Troll!

Calling people names is against the terms of service of this website. In addition, calling someone a troll is a form of trolling. Your off-topic and ridiculous cartoon is quite the interruption. Perhaps you should sweep your own doorstep.

[kanga]

Calling people names is against the terms of service of this website. In addition, calling someone a troll is a form of trolling. Your off-topic and ridiculous cartoon is quite the interruption. Perhaps you should sweep your own doorstep.

considering this thread is about dogs in shelters, how on-topic are you, mr. smack-sombody-in-the-face-with-porcupine-quills?....:-?

[Lone Wolf]

Calling people names is against the terms of service of this website.

you're forever calling people bigot, racist, homophobic, sexist, etc.
you're a hypocrite

[kanga]

you're forever calling people bigot, racist, homophobic, sexist, etc.
you're a hypocrite

now wolf (no E), that's name-calling. or is it trolling?:eek:

[Wise Old Owl]

No Kanga, that LW pointing the common sense of truth.


Lets get back to the subject dogs in shelters....

[Appalachian Tater]

considering this thread is about dogs in shelters, how on-topic are you, mr. smack-sombody-in-the-face-with-porcupine-quills?....:-?It's about dogs.

[kanga]

It's about dogs.
oh, good! at least you figured out half of it...

[Appalachian Tater]

now wolf (no E), that's name-calling. or is it trolling?:eek:Actually, it's called "projection" in psychology.

[Wise Old Owl]

Tater, if you wern't so over the top on your posts - You wouldn't chase everybody away.

[superman]

He deleted mine too. One day after I spent about 6 hours going through and correcting spelling errors and typos my transcriber (mom) made. :mad: But that was his right I suppose. He owned the server. I just wish he'd told me (and others) first.

True story, and somewhat off topic. At the 2005 SORUCK, I gave a presentation and I mentioned to some folks that I was offering my (then) 15 year old daughter $1 a journal entry to retype the thing from a copy my transcriber had printed out. Clyde, from this site says to me "I have a copy of your journal." I thought he was kidding at first, but he wasn't. He read my journal in 2000, and had a complete electronic copy of it. I was astonsihed, and somewhat flattered at the same time.

I never did take Clyde up on his offer of giving me a copy, and my daughter thought $1 an entry wasn't worth her time. The kids these days. Give 'em everything, and they don't want to work. :) I retyped the whole damned thing into Trailjournals myself.

Damn, that's great that you were able to get yours together again. If I had mine to re-do I could make it better than the original. I made my entries to it just before going to sleep when only three brain cells were still working. Many of my entries were the same, "We hiked up and down today. Now we are in the tent and Winter is asleep. I will be soon." It wasn't Shakespeare.

[Marta]

Damn, that's great that you were able to get yours together again. If I had mine to re-do I could make it better than the original. I made my entries to it just before going to sleep when only three brain cells were still working. Many of my entries were the same, "We hiked up and down today. Now we are in the tent and Winter is asleep. I will be soon." It wasn't Shakespeare.

Now you have the chance to completely remake your hike. You can turn yourself into the best hiker ever. Enjoy!

[superman]

Now you have the chance to completely remake your hike. You can turn yourself into the best hiker ever. Enjoy!

I couldn't begin to re-do my journal but if it had been saved it did mention how Winter and I dealt with a lot of these dog issues on the trail. Mostly hiking the AT was a whole lot of repetition even for the dog issues. There were observations made along the way about situations that were encountered in my journal. From a standpoint of people asking me what it was like and how did we deal with this or that the journal might have had some value. Winter is too old to hike now and when she passes I might try another thru hike. I expect that I'd spend the whole hike comparing everything with my first thru hike. I enjoyed hiking with Winter and while I know that a re-hike would be different, I can't imagine it being better.

[splash1986]

Pardon me, but I don't understand how someone can be "backed into a corner" on an internet posting forum.




Ahhhh That seems to be the right question to ask.

Here's what Lone Wolf failed to mention. He's cursed at fellow trailplace users, insulted them by calling them names and alienated users by backing them into corners. A lot of the same stuff I've seen him do here.

The issue is that I don't have the time to baby him. I've warned him several times, asked him several times and usually what I get back is "he started it or same old trailplace". When the real issue is an individual that just doesn't know how to play with others in a way that doesn't create arguements.

Opinions are great - the spice that makes forums interesting. However it gets personal too often with Lone Wolf.

That's the part he forgot to mention in his post. It's not oh poor Lone Wolf for stating his opinion. There's a history and thankfully a lot of those negative posts have been deleted at TP.

So if you want to come over and chat I welcome you to. I just ask you not get personal with people and evoke arguements. There's a big difference between and arguement and a healthy debate

Peace be with you

[Lone Wolf]

Pardon me, but I don't understand how someone can be "backed into a corner" on an internet posting forum.

you'll have to join trailplace and ask him over there. careful how you word it, you'll piss him off and you'll get ZAPPED! :)

[ShelterLeopard]

Couple more questions: one, are dogs allowed at Shaw's lodging, or do you have to tent outside? and two, I remember a really rocky spot in the hundred-mile wilderness, kind of near Baxter that was (essentially) a huge mountain of boulders. Has anyone ever climbed this with a dog? It seems like it might be really difficult for them.

[ShelterLeopard]

Well, not huge, but a bit big, anyway.

[ShelterLeopard]

So, I've heard from more than one person that you don't really want to be (or at least seem) alone on the southern parts of the AT. One person said that someone stopped in a pick-up truck and asked "you ahead or behind?"- meaning are you behind your group, and if you are, you're in for it now. Is this true, or are people just remembering what happened once and was widely spread?

[ShelterLeopard]

Oops, sorry- mean to put thnat last one somewhere else.

[The Weasel]

Hate to break it to you, but there are no rules on who "should be allowed to stay in shelters." The AT doesn't have near enough mean, nasty cops with big guns to handle that. It's called, "get along with people, people."

TW

[CrumbSnatcher]

Couple more questions: one, are dogs allowed at Shaw's lodging, or do you have to tent outside? and two, I remember a really rocky spot in the hundred-mile wilderness, kind of near Baxter that was (essentially) a huge mountain of boulders. Has anyone ever climbed this with a dog? It seems like it might be really difficult for them.
dogs used to be allowed at shaws,new owners call and ask. many dogs have hiked the 100 mile wilderness,the spot your talking about might be the climb up to whitecap mtn. northbound 73 miles south of big K... pretty rocky west peak thru white cap mtn.

[superman]

I don't know why it's such a big deal to use a tent instead of the evil shelters, with a dog or without one. Even if you use a shelter you should still carry a tent or something if there is no room in the Inn. It's just not a big deal to do without using a shelter either way. Maybe you're afraid of leaving your buddies behind.:D
I also don't understand how hard it is to understand, that just because you chose to bring your dog (and all that en tails), the other people didn't make that choice. If you start your hike with the mindset of not caring what other people think you might want to think some more.:-?

[superman]

Couple more questions: one, are dogs allowed at Shaw's lodging, or do you have to tent outside? and two, I remember a really rocky spot in the hundred-mile wilderness, kind of near Baxter that was (essentially) a huge mountain of boulders. Has anyone ever climbed this with a dog? It seems like it might be really difficult for them.

Many times people warned me about places where Winter wouldn't be able to go because it was too hard. Winter made all those hard places look easy. She used to look at me like I was handi-capped. She had four paw drive and I only had two feet.

[the goat]

Couple more questions: one, are dogs allowed at Shaw's lodging, or do you have to tent outside? and two, I remember a really rocky spot in the hundred-mile wilderness, kind of near Baxter that was (essentially) a huge mountain of boulders. Has anyone ever climbed this with a dog? It seems like it might be really difficult for them.
i'll second what superman has to say, my dog made every difficult-looking spot look like a piece of cake. he is a badass though.

[splash1986]

Haha.... Peace Be with You!!!!:D



you'll have to join trailplace and ask him over there. careful how you word it, you'll piss him off and you'll get ZAPPED! :)

[ShelterLeopard]

So do you think that descent on Whitecap would be alright with a big dog? (Golden retriever) I'm just a bit wary because I know a couple who I met on trail a year ago whose dog got injured, and they had to hitch a ride out, but I don't know if he actually got hurt hiking, or some other way.

[Lone Wolf]

So do you think that descent on Whitecap would be alright with a big dog? (Golden retriever)

sure as long as he/she ain't wearing a pack. dogs should never carry packs

[Big Oz]

You're right I said that. My dog will know you're coming up to the shelter long before you even know there's a dog in the shelter. It's my responsibility to rectify the situation, by both reassuring the dog it's ok and letting him know what he's doing is OK. I've had no instances where he's growled at people while they were right outside of the shelter and could hear it.

I didn't come here to continue the debate on wether dogs should be allowed on the trail or at shelters. We're not going to change each other's mind.

I came here to correct the BS that Lone Wolf was saying about why he was asked to leave (after being warned repeatedly).

Peace be with you.What is your punishment?Seems your a trouble maker too.Let that dog growl at me one time and see what happens to you and the dog:D

[santa]

What is your punishment?Seems your a trouble maker too.Let that dog growl at me one time and see what happens to you and the dog:D

lol......

[Wise Old Owl]

7 Sisters,

You have made your point, counterpoint, He isn't the worst or the best, you kicked him off, now go back to your quiet corner. You are a mod over there, learn to move on. I could care less if he urinated on your parade. We all do things on the internet that are both helpful and frowned upon. It's human nature to make mistakes - Be gone.

And Also With You.

[santa]

7 Sisters,

You have made your point, counterpoint, He isn't the worst or the best, you kicked him off, now go back to your quiet corner. You are a mod over there, learn to move on. I could care less if he urinated on your parade. We all do things on the internet that are both helpful and frowned upon. It's human nature to make mistakes - Be gone.

And Also With You.


pretty sure he left a few pages ago, its just funny to see everyone get upset. I find it commical.

[The Old Fhart]

7sisters-"...It's my responsibility to rectify the situation, by both reassuring the dog it's ok and letting him know what he's doing is OK..."What is wrong with you? You talk about correcting a situation that is your fault in the first place, and then talk about reassuring your dog that what he was doing is ok? That is pure BS and I can see why others have taken you to task on your attitude of entitlement, for not only you, but your dog. You give responsible dog owners a bad name.

It's NOT your responsibility to rectify the situation, it's your responsibility to prevent it from happening again by either training your dog (and yourself) or leaving the dog home.

[Wise Old Owl]

pretty sure he left a few pages ago, its just funny to see everyone get upset. I find it commical.

Yea I saw that, On the other hand he keeps coming back...& checking.

[bigmac_in]

sure as long as he/she ain't wearing a pack. dogs should never carry packs

That sounds like a broad, general statement .... :D

[ShelterLeopard]

But he's right- packs can really throw off a dog's natural balance. I don't object to dog's carrying small packs, so long as the owner takes it off for any steep or tough climbs. Better safe than sorry...

[Lone Wolf]

That sounds like a broad, general statement .... :D

any man that makes a dog carry anything is a POS

[ShelterLeopard]

Why? They're strong. I always have my dog carry his water. It isn't much, and it just makes things easier- then I don't have to unpack his water bowl when we break. Just so long it isn't much.

[Wise Old Owl]

Ohh Come on LW I just bought one today at REI, Why should I carry 5 additional pounds of fido food, and blanky?

[The Old Fhart]

Lone Wolf-"any man that makes a dog carry anything is a POS"Would this be an exception?:D
4197

[Heater]

Pardon me, but I don't understand how someone can be "backed into a corner" on an internet posting forum.

Please, explain yourself.

[Heater]

Oops, sorry- mean to put thnat last one somewhere else.

Oh. OK....

[Wise Old Owl]

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/203/469909676_8fdd6db8c2.jpg

[The Weasel]

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/203/469909676_8fdd6db8c2.jpg

Is this dog growling? Just who exactly is going to kick THIS dog out of a shelter? So far as I'm concerned, any dog with friends who carry automatic weapons in groups of 8 and more is welcome to stay ANYwhere his little canine butt wants. And if you disagree, LOOK CLOSELY at where Barko has his paw. This is a dog who knows how to hold a rifle and set it to full auto. Yes, doggy...I'll GLADLY give you anotehr treat.

TW

[Wise Old Owl]

http://www.storybooksaintbernards.com/lg_img/beaucart.jpg

[Lone Wolf]

Ohh Come on LW I just bought one today at REI, Why should I carry 5 additional pounds of fido food, and blanky?

cuz he didn't ask to hike. you forced him. you're a puss if you can't carry an extra 10 pounds

[Lone Wolf]

Is this dog growling? Just who exactly is going to kick THIS dog out of a shelter? So far as I'm concerned, any dog with friends who carry automatic weapons in groups of 8 and more is welcome to stay ANYwhere his little canine butt wants. And if you disagree, LOOK CLOSELY at where Barko has his paw. This is a dog who knows how to hold a rifle and set it to full auto. Yes, doggy...I'll GLADLY give you anotehr treat.

TW

oh please, you packsniffin, never military servin', bummbling fool :rolleyes:

[ShelterLeopard]

About the Iraq picture- is that your usual hiking ? :- )

[ShelterLeopard]

hiking gear, I meant to say...

[Wise Old Owl]

Sorry - No Pack Sniffers

http://artfiles.art.com/images/-/During-World-War-One-the-Belgians-Harness-Their-Dogs-to-Machine-Guns-Instead-of-Milk-Carts-Photographic-Print-C12337293.jpeg

[Lone Wolf]

http://artfiles.art.com/images/-/During-World-War-One-the-Belgians-Harness-Their-Dogs-to-Machine-Guns-Instead-of-Milk-Carts-Photographic-Print-C12337293.jpeg

you're point?

[Wise Old Owl]

http://www.wildpromotie.nl/jagerslatijn/indiandog.htm

http://www.wildpromotie.nl/jagerslatijn/pics/american-indiandog-02.jpgThese where the most common of all the Native American Dogs where also found outside the Plains areas. The Hare Indian Dogs, Common Indian Dogs all the medium sized types from all the Native American groups from Alaska to the tip of South America where all very similar. These medium sized (coyote type) dogs were used chiefly by the Indians as beasts of burden or to drag travois for transporting food, wood clothing, and household goods. Also for hunting bear, running down deer corralling bison. They served as watchdogs, bed warmers, and baby sitters, for food for symbolic or ritual purposes during times of famine. They where medium sized, about 50 cm at the shoulders; large, erect; tail medium bushy, drooping or slightly curved; coat rather rough, usually pale yellow, brownish yellow, gray lead mixed with lighter or white-ish sable; coyote shaped skull, typical occipitonasal length – 170 mm, typical zygomatic width – 105 mm; slender frame.

[Lone Wolf]

http://www.wildpromotie.nl/jagerslatijn/indiandog.htm

http://www.wildpromotie.nl/jagerslatijn/pics/american-indiandog-02.jpgThese where the most common of all the Native American Dogs where also found outside the Plains areas. The Hare Indian Dogs, Common Indian Dogs all the medium sized types from all the Native American groups from Alaska to the tip of South America where all very similar. These medium sized (coyote type) dogs were used chiefly by the Indians as beasts of burden or to drag travois for transporting food, wood clothing, and household goods. Also for hunting bear, running down deer corralling bison. They served as watchdogs, bed warmers, and baby sitters, for food for symbolic or ritual purposes during times of famine. They where medium sized, about 50 cm at the shoulders; large, erect; tail medium bushy, drooping or slightly curved; coat rather rough, usually pale yellow, brownish yellow, gray lead mixed with lighter or white-ish sable; coyote shaped skull, typical occipitonasal length – 170 mm, typical zygomatic width – 105 mm; slender frame.

your point?

[santa]

http://www.wildpromotie.nl/jagerslatijn/indiandog.htm

http://www.wildpromotie.nl/jagerslatijn/pics/american-indiandog-02.jpgThese where the most common of all the Native American Dogs where also found outside the Plains areas. The Hare Indian Dogs, Common Indian Dogs all the medium sized types from all the Native American groups from Alaska to the tip of South America where all very similar. These medium sized (coyote type) dogs were used chiefly by the Indians as beasts of burden or to drag travois for transporting food, wood clothing, and household goods. Also for hunting bear, running down deer corralling bison. They served as watchdogs, bed warmers, and baby sitters, for food for symbolic or ritual purposes during times of famine. They where medium sized, about 50 cm at the shoulders; large, erect; tail medium bushy, drooping or slightly curved; coat rather rough, usually pale yellow, brownish yellow, gray lead mixed with lighter or white-ish sable; coyote shaped skull, typical occipitonasal length – 170 mm, typical zygomatic width – 105 mm; slender frame.


I bet those dogs didnt sleep in their huts/

[Wise Old Owl]

LW posted ....any man that makes a dog carry anything is a POS....

LW - The point is that Dogs are wild animals we learned to have a symbiotic relationship with. Your broad statements about Dogs or any other animal, & I can make just as broad statements on the behaviors of Shelter users, Northerners, Southerners, etc,

Every time I reach for my pack my dog - not the one in my bio at the moment, jumps up and down 3 feet in the air like a Tigger. If I drag you out on a hike wouldn't you like to carry your own pack or do I have to carry yours for you?


Santa - you are right the Indian kept them outside the hut, but the loss of a dog was great as having a dog was a position of wealth. Actually they carted the hut....

[Lone Wolf]

any man that makes a dog carry anything is a POS....

LW - The point is that Dogs are wild animals we learned to have a symbiotic relationship with. Your broad statements about Dogs or any other animal, & I can make just as broad statements on the behaviors of Shelter users, Northerners, Southerners, etc,

Every time I reach for my pack my dog - not the one in my bio at the moment, jumps up and down 3 feet in the air like a Tigger. If I drag you out on a hike wouldn't you like to carry your own pack or do I have to carry yours for you?

whatever. you sound like your boy 7sisters. go on to trailplace. carry your dog's stuff. a man would

[Wise Old Owl]

Ah that is where You & I differ, I read the thread over there that you provided, I could care less about 7 sisters, I will hike my own hike. I have no issues with u. I won't be bringing my dog into a shelter, except in one condition - Lightening. Hard Cover makes a difference. & I know I am working with a well behaved dog.


Guess you went to bed.....

Can't force a dog to hike they have a bad habit of sitting down, then you end up carrying the dog.

[santa]

Ah that is where You & I differ, I read the thread over there that you provided, I could care less about 7 sisters, I will hike my own hike. I have no issues with u. I won't be bringing my dog into a shelter, except in one condition - Lightening. Hard Cover makes a difference. & I know I am working with a well behaved dog.



sounds fair :) and as far as the pack on dog issue. I'm not sure where i stand. These dog posts are getting alot of attention. :-?

[Wise Old Owl]

http://www.kmtr.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=1e5b510a-7430-4e19-a241-0e0d80c209d9

Yes because it doesn't take much to be passionate about pets, dogs, cats, people will defend their posistion beyond some strange limits.

Breaking news..... a working dog with a pack helped a blind man to the top of Mt. Hood. Hmmm, won't kick Diego out of the shelter now will we?

http://www.kmtr.com/media/news/8/8/0/8808a87e-6fa5-4f62-8c07-e1d59952c700/Story.jpg (http://javascript<b></b>:void(0);)

[Dirtygaiters]

Dogs are wild animals we learned to have a symbiotic relationship with.

If I drag you out on a hike wouldn't you like to carry your own pack or do I have to carry yours for you?



At the risk of jumping into a discussion I haven't really been participating in, and taking a quote out of context to throw it back into the quotee's face, I'm going to do just that.

You contradict yourself in the above quote by saying that wild animals want to carry loads. Wild animals, in the wild, don't carry loads. Why the hell would a wild animal ever want to carry a load?

Firstly, let's get one thing straight. Dogs are not wild animals. Nor did humans "learn to have a symbiotic relationship with them." Symbiotic relationships are not, strictly speaking, something that can be learned. Rather they arise through co-evolution. In symbiotic relationships, one organism literally has evolved to help another organism to survive and vice versa. The E. coli bacteria present in the human intestinal tract is an example of a symbiotic relationship, though E. coli in particular are facultative symbionts (actually most symbionts are... that means they can survive elsewhere besides our gut too). The bacteria help break down our food, which provides us access to more nutrition, and, in exchange, we provide them with a place to live and a steady supply of food. In what way does a dog help a human survive?

Going back to point #1, dogs are thought to be originally descended from grey wolves. Ancient humans domesticated them by killing off the wolf packs whose territory was around their villages and sometimes capturing the pups, raising them as companions, and killing them if they proved to be too aggressive. Over time, only the wolves with the least aggressive dispositions survived, and the domesticated wolves that could survive the best on protein-poor human trash and leftovers became the most prominent around settlements, and these animals evolved slightly smaller brains and smaller bodies than their wolfish ancestors to cope with this type of diet. After that, people started breeding them for special purposes and this is what's responsible for the vast diversity of dog sizes, shapes and colors.

Now, returning to your point that dogs are "symbiotic"... NO! If anything, they're parasitic on humans. They depend on us for food, they eat what they can get from us, and provide only emotional payoff to their "hosts". Now, I'm a dog lover and I would never call a cute dog a parasite (to its face), but if they're anything, it's parasites!

Secondly, as I already said, wild animals do not carry backpacks. More to the point, very few wild animals--wolves not being one of them--are psychologically able to continue walking from morning to evening, day after day. Since the psychology of domestic dogs differs very little from wolves, the same can be said of them. Forcing an animal to act contrary to its nature is a form of abuse. It's like putting a human being in solitary confinement even though human nature is to be social. Fortunately for domestic dogs, most breeds are rather insensitive to pain. Think of it this way, if you're a dog breeder in primitive human society and you breed dogs to hunt wild boar, but all your dogs run away from their quarry after they've been slightly gored by it, or after they've hurt their paw running after it, then you're going to try to breed a more resilient dog, right? That's why so many people these days can take their pet dogs on the trail and erroneously interpret that the dog's lively, "happy" behavior accurately reflects how the dog actually feels.

Hiking with a dog for any long distance is abusing it, and it's really unfortunate that the people who are most ardent about telling you that a dog has rights are so ignorant about their own dogs that they will freely violate their own dogs' single right under the law, which is freedom from abuse. It's also really annoying to hear their hypocrisy.

[superman]

This is Winter's pack. Does the POS go before or after my name.:-?


http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/3/9/6/7/pic089.jpg (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=25302&original=1&c=530)

[Lone Wolf]

dogs aren't pack animals. a caring owner would carry a dog's stuff

[MOWGLI]

dogs aren't pack animals. a caring owner would carry a dog's stuff...

...directly to the shelter each night. What caring owner wouldn't want a roof over their dog's head? ;)

[mudhead]

Can't force a dog to hike they have a bad habit of sitting down, then you end up carrying the dog.

That would be a point past the dog having a good time.

[Two Speed]

any man that makes a dog carry anything is a POSYa know, I just can't imagine why another site admin might ban you. I am shocked at this miscarriage of justice. :cool:

[MOWGLI]

Ya know, I just can't imagine why another site admin might ban you. I am shocked at this miscarriage of justice. :cool:

Lone Wolf didn't say that. Incorrect attribution.

[Two Speed]

'Kay, what did I muff? Wasn't Wolf banned, or did someone edit one of Wolf's posts?

[MOWGLI]

'Kay, what did I muff?

You quoted a statement by Wise Old Owl (post 422) and attributed it to Lone Wolf.

[MOWGLI]

Oops. Missed post 404 where LW actually said that. Sorry.

[warraghiyagey]

...directly to the shelter each night. What caring owner wouldn't want a roof over their dog's head? ;)
Charlie Brown???:-?

[generoll]

You really should read Vonneguts "Thomas Edisons Shaggy Dog" to get the correct understanding of the relationship between dogs and humans. Things will become much clearer after that.

[warraghiyagey]

You really should read Vonneguts "Thomas Edisons Shaggy Dog" to get the correct understanding of the relationship between dogs and humans. Things will become much clearer after that.
Still on Cat's Cradle after starting with Slaughterhouse 5.

[kanga]

shelters suck.

[woodsy]

Dogs in shelters suck.
Agreed:)

[4eyedbuzzard]

shelters suck.

Now, where have I heard that before? :confused: :rolleyes:

[warraghiyagey]

Now, where have I heard that before? :confused: :rolleyes:
KangaWolf??

[kanga]

Agreed:)

nice edit!!

[woodsy]

nice edit!!
Gee thanks:p

[kanga]

Now, where have I heard that before? :confused: :rolleyes:

I haven't stayed in a shelter since '96. i woke up one morning in the first shelter north of hot springs and started rolling up my therma-rest only to find a mouse squished pancake flat and stuck to the bottom. it took me FOREVER to scrape him off and the oily stain is still there as a reminder 12 years later.

[warraghiyagey]

I haven't stayed in a shelter since '96. i woke up one morning in the first shelter north of hot springs and started rolling up my therma-rest only to find a mouse squished pancake flat and stuck to the bottom. it took me FOREVER to scrape him off and the oily stain is still there as a reminder 12 years later.
KillerKanga??

[4eyedbuzzard]

KangaWolf??

A hopping predator with a pouch. Wouldn't even need a pack. I'm picturing he butt end of a Glock stickin' out of the pouch as well.

Photoshop opportunity someone?

[warraghiyagey]

A hopping predator with a pouch. Wouldn't even need a pack. I'm picturing he butt end of a Glock stickin' out of the pouch as well.

Photoshop opportunity someone?
A bearded, packin Kanga. Oh how I roo the day.
http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/laughing021.gifhttp://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/laughing021.gif

[4eyedbuzzard]

... mouse squished pancake flat and stuck to the bottom. it took me FOREVER to scrape him off ...

Flat as a pancake? Is this really a shelter problem - or a BACON problem? :D Sorry, joking, couldn't resist...

[kanga]

A bearded, packin Kanga. Oh how I roo the day.
http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/laughing021.gifhttp://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/laughing021.gif

you are just toooooo funny.:p

[kanga]

KillerKanga??

Hey! I was distraught! I even threw up a little bit in my mouth.

[kanga]

Flat as a pancake? Is this really a shelter problem - or a BACON problem? :D Sorry, joking, couldn't resist...

ok. i've been out in the sun and i think my brain has shut down. i'm confused (nothing new). could you explain the bacon part?:confused:

[warraghiyagey]

Hey! I was distraught! I even threw up a little bit in my mouth.

'Dodgeball' reference.;)


ok. i've been out in the sun and i think my brain has shut down. i'm confused (nothing new). could you explain the bacon part?:confused:

Thread crossover. see 'bacon' thread.:)

[4eyedbuzzard]

ok. i've been out in the sun and i think my brain has shut down. i'm confused (nothing new). could you explain the bacon part?:confused:

Er, ah, I was going for one of the anatomical side effects of eating a lot of bacon (from the bacon thread), as in er, ah, increasing one's mass to the point of flattening objects and little critters. Just another failed obtuse humor attempt :o

[warraghiyagey]

Just another failed obtuse humor attempt :o
OUr favorite kind.;):)

[kanga]

Er, ah, I was going for one of the anatomical side effects of eating a lot of bacon (from the bacon thread), as in er, ah, increasing one's mass to the point of flattening objects and little critters. Just another failed obtuse humor attempt :o


Thread crossover. see 'bacon' thread.:)


I get it! yay, the gerbil recovered from sunstroke! thanks, guys!

and buzzard, are you callin' me fat?!:eek:

[warraghiyagey]

I get it! yay, the gerbil recovered from sunstroke! thanks, guys!

and buzzard, are you callin' me fat?!:eek:

Yes he was.:)
Bad Buzzard.:p

[CrumbSnatcher]

dogs aren't pack animals. a caring owner would carry a dog's stuff
i totaly agree with L.W. ON A THRUHIKE for sure. i do not like dog packs,
"dogs are not pack animals" this is not our opionion but a fact. my dog had less than a 100 miles with a pack and 6,000+ without, on the A.T. if you do use a pack for the dog watch for rubbing, (carry neosporin for pads and chaffing)please take the pack off on tough sections and perhaps the last mile or so, so they can stretch. i think the worst thing a dog can carry is water too heavy and it sways the dog back and forth! i carried up to 6 qts. most water breaks we'd stop and she'd tip her head up and i'd pour a small stream out of the bottle.til she had her fill,
i understand some dogs like packs! day hike,weekend hike even a week maybe. (but a dog pack on a thruhike is cruel.IMO) your dog would miss you if you left them at home. but at least they would be safe. go ahead tell me i'm wrong,i don't know any of you but i do care for your dog and thier well being. i,m not stating my opionion! me and my beloved beardog had many many trail miles,mostly good but some bad. if you take your dog you have to adjust to thier hike,not making them keep to yours. and lone wolf said he seen dogs in front of dots, waiting for thier masters thats fine but not taking thier pack off while your inside enjoying yourself,you should be ashamed.

[generoll]

Still on Cat's Cradle after starting with Slaughterhouse 5.

The Shaggy Dog is a short story. Shouldn't take more then 30 mins and you can go back to the cat.

[SteveJ]

<clip>i understand some dogs like packs! day hike,weekend hike even a week maybe. (but a dog pack on a thruhike is cruel.IMO) <clip>

Several on this thread have made blanket statements that dogs should never carry a pack, or should never carry a pack on a thru-hike. I admittedly have never done a long-distance hike, and probably wouldn't bring my dog on a long-distance hike because I don't hike with her in the summer (which WOULD be cruel). However, blanket statements like the above simply aren't true for all breeds or all dogs. Working dogs have been bred to work. My sibe genetically has been bred to be a "sled dog capable of travelling great distances at a moderate speed"

http://www.akc.org/breeds/siberian_husky/history.cfm

What is "cruel" for some breeds is absolutely wonderful for others. My sibe is never happier than when we're on the trail and she's working, carrying her load (and she ONLY carries her load - water, food, bowls, leads, treats, etc...).....

[CrumbSnatcher]

Several on this thread have made blanket statements that dogs should never carry a pack, or should never carry a pack on a thru-hike. I admittedly have never done a long-distance hike, and probably wouldn't bring my dog on a long-distance hike because I don't hike with her in the summer (which WOULD be cruel). However, blanket statements like the above simply aren't true for all breeds or all dogs. Working dogs have been bred to work. My sibe genetically has been bred to be a "sled dog capable of travelling great distances at a moderate speed"

http://www.akc.org/breeds/siberian_husky/history.cfm

What is "cruel" for some breeds is absolutely wonderful for others. My sibe is never happier than when we're on the trail and she's working, carrying her load (and she ONLY carries her load - water, food, bowls, leads, treats, etc...).....you say you don't hike with her in the summer,hate to break it to you to do a thruhike for most means hiking thru summer which you say would be cruel,same thing i said

[CrumbSnatcher]

4-6 months of hiking mostly thru summer

[SteveJ]

4-6 months of hiking mostly thru summer

.....which I wouldn't do with a Siberian Husky, but there are other working breeds that this could be appropriate for.....

[CrumbSnatcher]

Several on this thread have made blanket statements that dogs should never carry a pack, or should never carry a pack on a thru-hike. I admittedly have never done a long-distance hike, and probably wouldn't bring my dog on a long-distance hike because I don't hike with her in the summer (which WOULD be cruel). However, blanket statements like the above simply aren't true for all breeds or all dogs. Working dogs have been bred to work. My sibe genetically has been bred to be a "sled dog capable of travelling great distances at a moderate speed"

http://www.akc.org/breeds/siberian_husky/history.cfm

What is "cruel" for some breeds is absolutely wonderful for others. My sibe is never happier than when we're on the trail and she's working, carrying her load (and she ONLY carries her load - water, food, bowls, leads, treats, etc...).....
your sibe might be breed to carry a sled great distances at moderate speeds,but let me see him take that sled up some of the terrain on the appalachian trail at any speed, i didn;t dispute some working dogs like dogpacks a thruhike is not a job,and your dog should not be working, a thruhike is very time consuming,and long distance backpacking with a dog is a whole different ballgame!!! you say you haven't hiked long distance at all, we have thruhiked 3 times and 400 miles or more a dozen times so give me some more of your opionion, or professional advice! by the way i still care for your dog.

[CrumbSnatcher]

.....which I wouldn't do with a Siberian Husky, but there are other working breeds that this could be appropriate for.....
just cause a dog can handle the heat is not a good enough of a reason to risk it. or the 100+ degree rocks on thier feet.

[CrumbSnatcher]

you ever hear how many dogs every year that have to be rescued off the trail, every year?, all i was saying is take care of your best friend??? and take the pack off once in awhile **** give them a break too, i didn't say don't thru hike with your dog just man up and give her a few days without the pack. you think the dogs going to be upset not carrying a pack,suicide alert **** the dogs going to jump!

[Wise Old Owl]

You quoted a statement by Wise Old Owl (post 422) and attributed it to Lone Wolf.


No - LW said it I just didn't hit the quote button, but it's got me thinking when you read subsequent posts.

[superman]

While I have the highest regard for CrumbSnatcher's dog hiking experience I don't completely agree. Much of this stuff is just opinion and experience. I don't believe Winter had a problem carrying the weight she did on the AT. While we did a zero day once a week. We had no problem in re-supplying ever three days on the AT. I had no problem hitching rides with Winter. Frequent re-supply was one of the ways we kept our pack weight down. Winter didn't carry water. Winter didn't carry the sardines, tuna and other goodies we shared. Mostly she carried her three days of dry dog food. She never had problems with her paws or her enthusiasm to get hiking. On re-supplies where I bought a 5 lb bag of dog food anything beyond her usual ration I carried or mailed it ahead.

Note in my signature: PUP stands for “put upon pooch”

[Wise Old Owl]

At the risk of jumping into a discussion I haven't really been participating in, and taking a quote out of context to throw it back into the quotee's face, I'm going to do just that.


Hiking with a dog for any long distance is abusing it, and it's really unfortunate that the people who are most ardent about telling you that a dog has rights are so ignorant about their own dogs that they will freely violate their own dogs' single right under the law, which is freedom from abuse. It's also really annoying to hear their hypocrisy.

I am not going to argue that I not only contradicted myself - I misspoke. I meant to say domesticated animals-and should have given more thought to what I wrote. However your final paragraph lead me to some interesting ideas and research, I disagree with that paragraph in more ways than one. It makes for an interesting thread that has nothing to do with Dogs in Shelters. I have opened up a new thead in the Subscription Forum for members to weigh in on this one.


Members who want to weigh in on dogs hiking long distances click here.
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=637664#post637664

[Nean]

I'd trade most dogs for most people - on the trail, in the shelters, or just about anywhere.:) Check out www.banthehumans.com for more information. :eek:

[Wise Old Owl]

Nean you shortcut didn't work

[Gray Blazer]

Don't know anything about TP or 7sisters except his post on this thread. I'm taking my dog on the AT this June for the first time. I want to thank everybody for the advice. She has a small well fitting pack that she seems to love to carry. I'll have boots for her (the sandspurs in FL take her down). She will not be staying in shelters. She will be on a leash (don't put any bacon beside her). She'll not drink from water sources. She is a little over 15 months old so forgive her if she is happy to see you. I will be controlling her so don't be afraid to say hi to me and Blaze, the chocolate traildog, when we see you on the AT. Larry, we're thinking about walking into Damascus so we'll stop by some evening and hopefully catch you at home.

PS if you think I'm cruel or FOS about my dog, remember this. If she wasn't out walking in the woods she'd be chewing us out of house and home for real. See ya on the trail!

[StarLyte]

On the A.T. there are ticks. Many colors, sizes and types.

Dogs carry ticks.

Sleep in a shelter with a dog and there ya go.

I am a dog lover, but IF I would hike with a dog (and I would not) I would tent with my dog.

I do love doggies though. Proud owner. But no doggie in the shelter is a good doggie. Woof.

One exclusion and for the record, the only dog I would ever hike with would be Fabian, Miss Janet's dog. He loves the Trail. If you're ever around and ask Fabian if he wants to hike, he goes crazy. Sometimes when she's slacking, she'll let Fabian go with responsible hikers. He's a great dog.

[kanga]

Firstly, let's get one thing straight. Dogs are not wild animals. Nor did humans "learn to have a symbiotic relationship with them." Symbiotic relationships are not, strictly speaking, something that can be learned. Rather they arise through co-evolution. In symbiotic relationships, one organism literally has evolved to help another organism to survive and vice versa....

....In what way does a dog help a human survive?


Now, returning to your point that dogs are "symbiotic"... NO! If anything, they're parasitic on humans. They depend on us for food, they eat what they can get from us, and provide only emotional payoff to their "hosts".


okay, since you never had the pleasure of meeting roo, i will forgive you for your ignorance. first of all, every day of that dog's life, i came home from work to find some kind of dead animal on my doorstep. now i know that sounds gross but she made sure that she fed her pack EVERY SINGLE DAY. there were chickens, squirrels, mice, birds, lizards, the list goes on.

on top of that i had that dog 9 months before i took one of my friends out on a day hike near grandfather mtn. it was a great place to hike, well-frequented but several of the lesser known trails were not that well marked. of course, those are the ones that i liked the best. we sat up on top and watched a glorious sunset while we had dinner. by the time we decided to head back down to the car, it was already quite dark. no big deal for someone who had been hiking there for years, except for the fact that my dumb ass had left the flashlight sitting on top of the car's trunk. it's a good 3 hour hike down, sometimes through rhodo thickets where no moonlight gets through. we went on and headed down, relying on my instincts and memory (god i miss those things..) about an hour down, i realized that i was really confused and wasn't really sure if we had turned off on the right crosstrail. i sat down to rest and think it out, but roo was ready to go home and she whined and whined, trying to keep going down the trail. being a smartaleck i told her "let's go to the car" and that dog took off. we ended up following the white patch on her butt using the flash on the camera. 2 hours later, i had NO CLUE where on that mountain we were when all of sudden she sits down in the middle of the road and won't budge, no matter how many times i tried to convince her to keep going down the trail. it took me a few seconds before i turned around and saw the forest service parking lot with my car in it.
so you tell me, what can dogs do for humans besides being parasites? as far as i'm concerned you are FOSand don't really have a clue. or maybe you just haven't ever been blessed with a good dog.




Think of it this way, if you're a dog breeder in primitive human society and you breed dogs to hunt wild boar, but all your dogs run away from their quarry after they've been slightly gored by it, or after they've hurt their paw running after it, then you're going to try to breed a more resilient dog, right? That's why so many people these days can take their pet dogs on the trail and erroneously interpret that the dog's lively, "happy" behavior accurately reflects how the dog actually feels.

okay now i'm convinced you do not have a clue.



Hiking with a dog for any long distance is abusing it, and it's really unfortunate that the people who are most ardent about telling you that a dog has rights are so ignorant about their own dogs that they will freely violate their own dogs' single right under the law, which is freedom from abuse. It's also really annoying to hear their hypocrisy.

same dog, 3 years later, she went with me from springer to fontana without missing a beat. my dad showed up to take her home. she RAN from him when he tried to put her in the car. i have pictures of her where she went and sat on top of my pack. the entire 6 days that she was gone, my father said she did not eat and sat at the door and cried nonstop. when they met up with me on the other side of the smokies, she damn near busted out the glass trying to get to me. you wanna know the first thing she did after getting some love? she tossed my dad the "evil eye" and started up the trail without me. i'm certain the only ignorant person here is you. ok. maybe not the ONLY one...

[MOWGLI]

first of all, every day of that dog's life, i came home from work to find some kind of dead animal on my doorstep. now i know that sounds gross but she made sure that she fed her pack EVERY SINGLE DAY. there were chickens, squirrels, mice, birds, lizards, the list goes on.



As a lifelong dog owner, IMO, it's irresponsible to allow your dog to kill things EVERY SINGLE DAY. I hope you leashed/leash your dog on the trail. Wildlife along the AT (and other trails) should be protected from this sort of behavior.

[minnesotasmith]

Several on this thread have made blanket statements that dogs should never carry a pack, or should never carry a pack on a thru-hike. I admittedly have never done a long-distance hike, and probably wouldn't bring my dog on a long-distance hike because I don't hike with her in the summer (which WOULD be cruel). However, blanket statements like the above simply aren't true for all breeds or all dogs. Working dogs have been bred to work. My sibe genetically has been bred to be a "sled dog capable of travelling great distances at a moderate speed"

http://www.akc.org/breeds/siberian_husky/history.cfm

What is "cruel" for some breeds is absolutely wonderful for others. My sibe is never happier than when we're on the trail and she's working, carrying her load (and she ONLY carries her load - water, food, bowls, leads, treats, etc...).....

They do NOT like working hard for long above 55 degrees F, especially in sunlight (which the AT does have in places). They're happiest around temps not exceeding 10-20 degrees IMO. I've seen them roll around in the snow to cool off after a good run at sub-zero temps. That rules out most of thruhiker season for Sibs...

[kanga]

As a lifelong dog owner, IMO, it's irresponsible to allow your dog to kill things EVERY SINGLE DAY. I hope you leashed/leash your dog on the trail. Wildlife along the AT (and other trails) should be protected from this sort of behavior.
they're carnivores. it's what they do. no, she was not always leashed on the trail and she never once went off and killed things there. well, maybe lizards. she was quite obedient and stayed right with me. she was more interested in the leftover lipton noodles and oatmeal.

[Wise Old Owl]

As a lifelong dog owner, IMO, it's irresponsible to allow your dog to kill things EVERY SINGLE DAY. I hope you leashed/leash your dog on the trail. Wildlife along the AT (and other trails) should be protected from this sort of behavior.


Ouch, let it go Mowgli, Although that's unsual for a dog to do that, cats do it all the time. Kanga can train the dog not to do it.

People brought cats over 100 years ago to keep the populations of mice & rats down in the streets of Sydney, Perth, & Melborne. The cats went ferel and wiped out hundreds of rare species in the outback creating a modern disaster. Now enviormentalist are correcting the problem, they have to shoot numerous feral cats on sight.


KANGA - HAVE YOU BEEN TO THE SUBSCRIPTION FORUM TODAY?

[CrumbSnatcher]

While I have the highest regard for CrumbSnatcher's dog hiking experience I don't completely agree. Much of this stuff is just opinion and experience. I don't believe Winter had a problem carrying the weight she did on the AT. While we did a zero day once a week. We had no problem in re-supplying ever three days on the AT. I had no problem hitching rides with Winter. Frequent re-supply was one of the ways we kept our pack weight down. Winter didn't carry water. Winter didn't carry the sardines, tuna and other goodies we shared. Mostly she carried her three days of dry dog food. She never had problems with her paws or her enthusiasm to get hiking. On re-supplies where I bought a 5 lb bag of dog food anything beyond her usual ration I carried or mailed it ahead.

Note in my signature: PUP stands for “put upon pooch”
thanks for the kind words,you seem to get how to hike with a dog,biggest thing for them not to carry is water. zeros are nice too.sorry if i sound like an ass**** but i'm really just concerned about the doggies

[CrumbSnatcher]

On the A.T. there are ticks. Many colors, sizes and types.

Dogs carry ticks.

Sleep in a shelter with a dog and there ya go.

I am a dog lover, but IF I would hike with a dog (and I would not) I would tent with my dog.

I do love doggies though. Proud owner. But no doggie in the shelter is a good doggie. Woof.

One exclusion and for the record, the only dog I would ever hike with would be Fabian, Miss Janet's dog. He loves the Trail. If you're ever around and ask Fabian if he wants to hike, he goes crazy. Sometimes when she's slacking, she'll let Fabian go with responsible hikers. He's a great dog.
fabien is a great partner for a day hike. i bet he has more miles between iron mtn. gap and the nolichucky, than anyone...

[CrumbSnatcher]

Don't know anything about TP or 7sisters except his post on this thread. I'm taking my dog on the AT this June for the first time. I want to thank everybody for the advice. She has a small well fitting pack that she seems to love to carry. I'll have boots for her (the sandspurs in FL take her down). She will not be staying in shelters. She will be on a leash (don't put any bacon beside her). She'll not drink from water sources. She is a little over 15 months old so forgive her if she is happy to see you. I will be controlling her so don't be afraid to say hi to me and Blaze, the chocolate traildog, when we see you on the AT. Larry, we're thinking about walking into Damascus so we'll stop by some evening and hopefully catch you at home.

PS if you think I'm cruel or FOS about my dog, remember this. If she wasn't out walking in the woods she'd be chewing us out of house and home for real. See ya on the trail!
hope you and the pooch have a great time...

[CrumbSnatcher]

Several on this thread have made blanket statements that dogs should never carry a pack, or should never carry a pack on a thru-hike. I admittedly have never done a long-distance hike, and probably wouldn't bring my dog on a long-distance hike because I don't hike with her in the summer (which WOULD be cruel). However, blanket statements like the above simply aren't true for all breeds or all dogs. Working dogs have been bred to work. My sibe genetically has been bred to be a "sled dog capable of travelling great distances at a moderate speed"

http://www.akc.org/breeds/siberian_husky/history.cfm

What is "cruel" for some breeds is absolutely wonderful for others. My sibe is never happier than when we're on the trail and she's working, carrying her load (and she ONLY carries her load - water, food, bowls, leads, treats, etc...).....
sorry for sounding like a dick,just care about the pooches...thruing is not always easy and i think its even tougher on the dogs....

[Lone Wolf]

sorry for sounding like a dick,just care about the pooches...thruing is not always easy and i think its even tougher on the dogs....

yup. you're right. as always when it comes to hiking with a dog

[superman]

thanks for the kind words,you seem to get how to hike with a dog,biggest thing for them not to carry is water. zeros are nice too.sorry if i sound like an ass**** but i'm really just concerned about the doggies

I understand. You're the man. Enjoy.

[ShelterLeopard]

I'm getting a dog (to hike the trail with), and I haven't decided what breed yet. Any suggestions? (I know, it may seem weird to ask other people what kind of dog I should get, but I'm open to suggestions and I don't know my dog breeds very well) I was looking at Jack Russell Terriers; I like smaller dogs, but not really small ones, and obviously very friendly and loyal (which I know, mostly differs from dog to dog and depends upon the owner) and one who is adept at hiking. So, any suggestions?

[Nearly Normal]

So, I've heard from more than one person that you don't really want to be (or at least seem) alone on the southern parts of the AT. One person said that someone stopped in a pick-up truck and asked "you ahead or behind?"- meaning are you behind your group, and if you are, you're in for it now. Is this true, or are people just remembering what happened once and was widely spread?



Funny.
I heard the buggerman lives in NJ.

[santa]

Funny.
I heard the buggerman lives in NJ.


You mean the hookerman.

I have seen him. :eek:

[Lone Wolf]

I'm getting a dog (to hike the trail with), and I haven't decided what breed yet. Any suggestions? (I know, it may seem weird to ask other people what kind of dog I should get, but I'm open to suggestions and I don't know my dog breeds very well) I was looking at Jack Russell Terriers; I like smaller dogs, but not really small ones, and obviously very friendly and loyal (which I know, mostly differs from dog to dog and depends upon the owner) and one who is adept at hiking. So, any suggestions?

too much of a pussy to do it by yourself?

[santa]

too much of a pussy to do it by yourself?

damn harsh. Lol but thats lone wolf. I had that thought 2 btw. But its just WAY 2 much work and responsibility to hike with a dog.

[Lone Wolf]

damn harsh. Lol but thats lone wolf. I had that thought 2 btw. But its just WAY 2 much work and responsibility to hike with a dog.

go back to trailplace.

[ShelterLeopard]

Hey! I take offense to that. (Well, not really...but still.) I've already done enough of it by myself anyway. So ha!

[santa]

go back to trailplace.

no old man ;)

[santa]

WOOT! i win! no comeback! :banana Naa just playing. But what I'm saying LW there is no reason to be a dick about it. Lets play nice.

[4eyedbuzzard]

So, I've heard from more than one person that you don't really want to be (or at least seem) alone on the southern parts of the AT. One person said that someone stopped in a pick-up truck and asked "you ahead or behind?"- meaning are you behind your group, and if you are, you're in for it now. Is this true, or are people just remembering what happened once and was widely spread?

Oh, it's true all right boy. And then the music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esl2NNOtHQE)starts - but that's just the beginin'.

[ShelterLeopard]

Great clip!

[4eyedbuzzard]

Great clip!
:cool: :D
That movie reduced tourism in the south by 50% overnight.

[Odd Thomas]

:cool: :D
That movie reduced tourism in the south by 50% overnight.

This movie must have finished off WV! :p

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0295700/

[SteveJ]

sorry for sounding like a dick,just care about the pooches...thruing is not always easy and i think its even tougher on the dogs....

chuckle....it's OK....i'm sure you're a great guy! :sun

[kanga]

I'm getting a dog (to hike the trail with), and I haven't decided what breed yet. Any suggestions? (I know, it may seem weird to ask other people what kind of dog I should get, but I'm open to suggestions and I don't know my dog breeds very well) I was looking at Jack Russell Terriers; I like smaller dogs, but not really small ones, and obviously very friendly and loyal (which I know, mostly differs from dog to dog and depends upon the owner) and one who is adept at hiking. So, any suggestions?

can't beat a blue heeler