View Full Version : wood fire cooking?
How is cooking over a fire or cooking over a wood-stove viewed on the LT? I'm considering trying to keep fuel use down by using a small home-made woodstove, but am worried that this will piss people off.
Assuming responsible safe handling and keeping to LNT principles, would using this be a faux-pas?
4eyedbuzzard
05-30-2008, 16:46
I for one like cooking over an open wood fire. I honestly wouldn't give a rats @ss if other hikers don't like it. It's part of the hiking/camping experience. I'm even considering just carrying a supercat and a few ounces of alcohol or even esbit as a backup and cooking only over wood on my next hike.
The biggest problem would be a possible fire ban during a dry period. Most wood stoves like the zip are usually okay by most state rangers/local fire wardens, but there are times and places even using them is banned.
Here's the GMC's statement on fires http://www.greenmountainclub.org/page.php?id=54
dessertrat
05-30-2008, 17:02
How is cooking over a fire or cooking over a wood-stove viewed on the LT? I'm considering trying to keep fuel use down by using a small home-made woodstove, but am worried that this will piss people off.
Assuming responsible safe handling and keeping to LNT principles, would using this be a faux-pas?
For some reason, it seems that even the most ardent LNT'ers are reluctant to criticize when they are sitting around a well made campfire. And if they don't understand that a campfire is probably a better use of renewable resources than a cartridge or alcohol, then eff em.
hammock engineer
05-30-2008, 17:11
I love cooking over a fire. I try to as much as I can. I only use my stove when I have to.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
05-30-2008, 17:11
Hmmm... wood is a readily renewal resource while propane and gas aren't. In my view, the larger LNT principle would favor wood over those fuels.
Alright, glad to hear we are all on the same page with this. Is there an easy way to find out when there is a fire ban?
Hmmm... wood is a readily renewal resource...
Sure, these little puppies are renewable... in another thousand years or so.
http://cache.eb.com/eb/image?id=82543&rendTypeId=4
Flush2wice
05-31-2008, 00:36
Alright, glad to hear we are all on the same page with this. Is there an easy way to find out when there is a fire ban?
The 2008 fire ban schedule won't come out for another week or two.
Two Speed
05-31-2008, 06:32
Sure, these little puppies are renewable... in another thousand years or so.
http://cache.eb.com/eb/image?id=82543&rendTypeId=4Ya know, I'm having trouble believing the average backpacker's gonna fell one of those suckers to boil up a coupla cups of water for ramen noodles.
Just sayin'.
Odd Thomas
05-31-2008, 06:38
Hmmm... wood is a readily renewal resource while propane and gas aren't. In my view, the larger LNT principle would favor wood over those fuels.
Woodburning is also carbon neutral
Frolicking Dinosaurs
05-31-2008, 06:41
A cooking fire involves collecting sticks from the ground that are no bigger around than your finger and using those. Green, freshly cut wood will not work. So no living tree is harmed in collecting the wood and I submit that the small amount taken will not adversely affect the environment unless many, many take the smll amount - something that is unlikely as most will not accept the downside to wood stoves -- soot.
Lone Wolf
05-31-2008, 07:34
How is cooking over a fire or cooking over a wood-stove viewed on the LT? I'm considering trying to keep fuel use down by using a small home-made woodstove, but am worried that this will piss people off.
Assuming responsible safe handling and keeping to LNT principles, would using this be a faux-pas?
nothing wrong with it at all. have at it
It's one thing to carry a wood-burning stove and feed it with fallen twigs and branches.
It's another to expect fire rings at all shelters and campsites for the purpose of cooking.
It's another to "stealth camp" regularly and create new fire rings for that purpose.
dessertrat
05-31-2008, 15:31
It's one thing to carry a wood-burning stove and feed it with fallen twigs and branches.
It's another to expect fire rings at all shelters and campsites for the purpose of cooking.
It's another to "stealth camp" regularly and create new fire rings for that purpose.
However, you WILL find established fire rings at almost all of the shelters, if not all of them. You should expect it. Save the stove for when it rains, so long as you don't mind camping at the shelters every night, which limits your travel plans.
However, you WILL find established fire rings at almost all of the shelters...
I'd guess about half, nowadays - on the AT, anyways. There seems to be a movement to do away with fire pits. And last summer, because of the drought, there were no-fire rules in effect over much of the AT in VA, and maybe elsewhere.
Wise Old Owl
05-31-2008, 16:02
Pass the melted Smore woo you?
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg275/MarkSwarbrick/hotmod.jpg
Hike your own hike, don't worry about the others and make absolutely sure that it is cold out coals. Many times I have been car camping in National Parks and the number of Jack *sses that leave the fire ring burning on Sunday drives me nuts.
By the way-Terrapin the giant Sequoia trees you pictured are in real trouble because of the lack of fire from the thirties, The park is going to test fires to clean the underbrush under the trees to push new seedlings as they have not been getting any new baby trees underneath.
hammock engineer
05-31-2008, 17:06
Don't get me started on firerings. I hate those things. No reason every person has to make and leave one. Last year I counted over 60 including shelters between 501 shelter and Duncannon, PA. Averaging over 1 a mile. Those are the big LNT problem to me.
Wise Old Owl
05-31-2008, 17:10
Don't get me started on firerings. I hate those things. No reason every person has to make and leave one. Last year I counted over 60 including shelters between 501 shelter and Duncannon, PA. Averaging over 1 a mile. Those are the big LNT problem to me.
There are efforts with trail maintainers to make it difficult to do this anymore. Ten people get together and drag dead trees and other debris into the spot to cover it up and make a lot of work for anyone who would want to use the same spot again effectively it makes the perfect spot disappear when they get done.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
05-31-2008, 17:19
A cook fire should not have a fire ring. The best way to make one without a stove or established fire ring IMO is to carefully clear away duff until you have bare soil. Dig a trench about four inches deep, six inch longer than the diameter of your pot and about as wide as your pot. Build the fire in the trench on one end using wood no larger than your finger. Use two large, damp pieces of downed wood to act ask pot supports. Feed the wood in under the pot support using the extra six inches of trench for access. When done, douse the fire with water several times to be absolutely sure it is completely out and cool enough not to ignite the duff you will be restoring. Fill in the trench and place the duff back over the site. Throw the two pot supports far off the trail or cooking area after dousing them with water.
4eyedbuzzard
05-31-2008, 17:20
There are efforts with trail maintainers to make it difficult to do this anymore. Ten people get together and drag dead trees and other debris into the spot to cover it up and make a lot of work for anyone who would want to use the same spot again effectively it makes the perfect spot disappear when they get done.
I only use existing fire rings, usually at shelters or established camping areas. Otherwise I'll use a stove. But by getting rid of all the existing rings, don't you in some ways just wind up getting more new ones? Just wondering. It would seem that the best scenario is that people lessen impact by using existing rings rather than find all the old ones unusable and wind up building a new one. :-?
NorthCountryWoods
05-31-2008, 19:58
Some of the GMC may give the token sermon about responsible fires at established sites, but most won't care about a hobo stove as long as you're responsible.
BTW, almost all of VT has been deforested (including the peaks) due to logging and fires in the last 2 centuries so the odds of endangering an old growth stand is almost zero. The Lamoille County forester told me that all of the bald peaks in the state were due to fires raging thru logging slash and incinerating the peaks and duff layers so that nothing has been able to re-establish.
In the winter I've cooked hot dogs on a campfire. Had them on buns with ketchup and mustard. real good.. Otherwise, I usually always cook using one of my many stoves. The current one I'm using is the pocket rocket.
Panzer
Rockhound
06-01-2008, 09:36
Did Earl Shaffer use a Jetboil? I cooked with wood when I hiked last year. I plan to cook with wood when I hike later this year and any hikes in the future. You will not find any of my fuel canisters in a landfill.
Did Earl Shaffer use a Jetboil? I cooked with wood when I hiked last year. I plan to cook with wood when I hike later this year and any hikes in the future. You will not find any of my fuel canisters in a landfill.
That is interesting. In the two or three years that I carried a Zip stove on my section hikes, I never saw a thru-hiker carrying one.
Wise Old Owl
06-01-2008, 09:47
I only use existing fire rings, usually at shelters or established camping areas. Otherwise I'll use a stove. But by getting rid of all the existing rings, don't you in some ways just wind up getting more new ones? Just wondering. It would seem that the best scenario is that people lessen impact by using existing rings rather than find all the old ones unusable and wind up building a new one. :-?
I am not sure, my source was watching a PBS program on Trail Maintaining in the Whites. I found it very interesting as they were taking state parks that were trashed by too much traffic and discussing in detail how to fix the areas. The before and after was very dramatic. The work of the young volunteers was impressive.
Earl Shaffer didn't even have a tent, less a jet boil... yes he did use wood - someone mentioned his book Walking with Spring and I am into the first three chapters, very good read...
shelterbuilder
06-01-2008, 11:10
I know that when I find a new firering on my section of trail, I'll toss the rocks as far into the brush as possible, scatter the ash/charcoal, and try to cover the evidence as best I can. It's a never-ending battle, but if you stop trying, I really think that you're saying that one person can't make a difference. And we can, you know....
Just sayin'.
terrapin, I get the feeling that most thru-hikers feel that, after "day after day" of hiking, there are better uses of your "down time" than having to gather fuel for a cook fire. I can understand this. Still, a "campfire" of any size - even one contained in a ZipStove - is psychologically re-assuring (at least to me) on some very ancient, primal level.
terrapin, I get the feeling that most thru-hikers feel that, after "day after day" of hiking, there are better uses of your "down time" than having to gather fuel for a cook fire. I can understand this. Still, a "campfire" of any size - even one contained in a ZipStove - is psychologically re-assuring (at least to me) on some very ancient, primal level.
Agree on all counts... I eventually got tired of the fuss & bother of the Zip.
Appalachian Tater
06-01-2008, 12:44
Alcohol is pretty environmentally-friendly. An alcohol stove with fuel weighs less than a Zip.
On the other hand, gathering a few twigs for cooking takes little time. Wouldn't the main objection be the mess? Smoke also prevents you from stealthing.
One trick is to select nice firewood on the way to get water and pick it up on your way back to camp.
If I got to a shelter before anyone was there,I'd light my Zip Stove in the shelter,and smoke out the bugs and mice so bad,they'd split for the night.
take-a-knee
06-01-2008, 16:41
If you like to cook with wood just buy a Bushbuddy, that eliminates the firering/scar problem.
cowboy nichols
06-01-2008, 16:59
I've used my zip for years and love it . It also is great when we have power outages. I have to have my coffee .
I used a Zipp for a few years and still have it. Occasionally I think about taking it, but, really, it is a bit heavy compared with a few Esbits and a Heineken pot.
Its best aspect, in my opinion, is that you can build your fire in a contained area, and when your cooking is done, you can dump the ashes into a stream to make sure they're out. Try that with a campfire!
AND......... they're good for cooking (grilling) hot dogs, sausages, etc. Just bring a skewer about 16" long (I guess you could use it as a tent stake, but you never really know what's in the dirt your stake goes into.........). :p
Nearly Normal
06-03-2008, 00:52
Nothing wrong with cooking over a fire except the extra clean up. Keeping things "clean" is problem enough without the soot.
Sailor (The other one)
06-03-2008, 05:23
A cooking fire involves collecting sticks from the ground that are no bigger around than your finger and using those. Green, freshly cut wood will not work. So no living tree is harmed in collecting the wood and I submit that the small amount taken will not adversely affect the environment unless many, many take the smll amount - something that is unlikely as most will not accept the downside to wood stoves -- soot.
Exactly.
You only need a tiny fire to boil water so you need little wood and there need be no trace at all. Learned this when I joined the scouts 40 years ago.
NorthCountryWoods
06-03-2008, 07:48
Exactly.
You only need a tiny fire to boil water so you need little wood and there need be no trace at all. Learned this when I joined the scouts 40 years ago.
Yup.
The little woodstoves can't consume much anyway, but learned as a kid from my Native Alaskan friend how not to make a "white mans fire".
Lost Boy
06-03-2008, 08:29
Alright, glad to hear we are all on the same page with this. Is there an easy way to find out when there is a fire ban?
If you haven't already, pick up the 2007 Long Trail Guide. It breaks the trail up into sections and at the beginning of each section it gives you info on fires - whats allowed and whats not. If your allowed to have a fire in that section then there is no reason why you cant cook on it...
A cooking fire involves collecting sticks from the ground that are no bigger around than your finger and using those. Green, freshly cut wood will not work. So no living tree is harmed in collecting the wood and I submit that the small amount taken will not adversely affect the environment unless many, many take the smll amount - something that is unlikely as most will not accept the downside to wood stoves -- soot.
The dead sticks that are used for trail fires will soon decay anyway, releasing the same CO2 and other gases that burning releases. At least that is what the chemists I've talked to tell me. So burning is truly carbon neutral.
Fire closures in Maine, anyway, aren't announced in advance. They totally depends on what the weather has produced. You can't get a fire permit when conditions are dry. Once it rains burning over night becomes legal again.
I've been trying all spring to burn some invasive multi-floral roses and choke cherry brush I cut last fall to reopen my view of the water. I've managed to burn most of it. I'm waiting for a good rain before I finally burn the left over unburned ends and a few scattered piles of brush.
Weary
NorthCountryWoods
06-03-2008, 09:09
Alright, glad to hear we are all on the same page with this. Is there an easy way to find out when there is a fire ban?
Nothing easy. Fire restrictions change on a daily basis. It's been quite a few years since there were any summer time fire bans that I remember. They are usually early season, before thing green up and the trails are still snow covered.
The NOAA website has fire forecasts and warnings here. (http://www.weather.gov/view/states.php?state=vt&map=on)
They used to have fire danger scales on the ANR website (http://www.anr.state.vt.us/), but not anymore.
Links to info about camping fires and fire statistics on the Division of Forestry site, (http://www.vtfpr.org/protection/for_protect_firecont.cfm) but nothing up to the minute.
If I remember correctly the GMC website (http://www.greenmountainclub.org/) would have any fire dangers posted, but not sure if they post anything at trailheads into risky areas.