Joint Health (esp knees)

[ChinMusic]

I have read many trail journals from hikers stating that they have had one form of knee pain or another. It seems to me that such pain most often happens after the first few days to NC. I'm sure the knee can go at any point along the way.

I am fortunate to have healthy knees but realize I cannot take that for granted. I plan to start out slow to allow my body to acclimate to the rigors of the trail.

What preventive measures can one take to improve one's odds? Does glucosamine help as a preventative? Any comments along these lines are welcome.

[Appalachian Tater]

Ibuprophen every few hours. Good nutrition and hydration. Get enough sleep, and take a zero weekly.

[le loupe]

interesting topic-

I seem to have recurring ankle joint pain and would love to hear some preventative therapies not symptom treatments.

[bigcranky]

Anti-inflammatories can help, but ask your doc about it first. There can be significant side-effects. Hydration is crucial for tendons and ligaments. Taking it easy to start is good, too.

The thing that totally ended my knee pain was losing weight -- about 30 pounds from around my gut, and about the same out of my pack. It makes a huge difference.

[hurryinghoosier]

Build up the muscles around the knee with serious exercises.

[George]

A lot of the pains (knee/ankle) that develop after a few days than slowly go away are tendonitus I do not know of a prevention but hard training may build some durability I take glucosamine for hand pain it may or may not help with knees but certainly does not hurt them

[superman]

Yes to all the previous advice. When you start your thru stop every hour, take your boots and socks off and massage your feet. Wiggle your toes and let them breath a bit before putting your stuff back on. You aren't going to make big mileage doing that but one of the big mistakes people makes is trying to do too much too soon. If you do too many miles to start you wind up giving them all back. Anti-inflamatory, glucosamine, hydrate, sleep, stretch, don't under or over tighten your laces and relax.

[ChinMusic]

Build up the muscles around the knee with serious exercises.
I do this twice a week and have been doing it for years. Maybe that is part of the reason I have had healthy knees.

Moderate weight training has done wonders for my well-being. I agree that having stronger muscles helps protect joints.

Heavy weight training, on the other hand, probably works against you.

[take-a-knee]

I do this twice a week and have been doing it for years. Maybe that is part of the reason I have had healthy knees.

Moderate weight training has done wonders for my well-being. I agree that having stronger muscles helps protect joints.

Heavy weight training, on the other hand, probably works against you.

I disagree with the last statement, heavy weight training, done correctly, is likely the singlemost beneficial thing you can do for yourself. Only with proper form and a thorough warmup of course. IE, the deadlift, mixed with burpees and pullups or dips, done in sequences of high reps of each exercise, is the metabolic equivalent of a hard run (nearly a sprint for me), and workouts like these enhance your running/climbing ability. Mix in sets of 3-5 reps with a weight that you can barely lift on the last rep, many good things will happen to your body (like getting a lot stronger). I should add that the heavy stuff should come after several months of lighter, high rep training. Get the book Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe.

Also, lateral knee pain (away from the midline, the side of the leg) is often due to lack of flexibility of the illiotibial band, and the remedy for this is proper stretching.

[Compass]

Two words.

Hiking Poles

and keep weight down.

[hopefulhiker]

I took glucosamine everyday for several months and it seemed to help.. Also I took large doses of ibuprophren during the hike in 05. Also I wore a knee brace for a few weeks.

[ChinMusic]

take-a-knee - I've seen too many guys hurt themselves by going too heavy. I've done it myself with my shoulders. I know, I know, proper technique. I'm no expert but I think by working out well under your max, say 50-75% with reps, should strengthen the muscles enough. I rarely do weights that I cannot rep 8-10 times. Maybe I'm wrong here.

compass - Hiking Poles damn straight, just don't let LW read this.......heheh

[gumball]

We use a form of the Cho-Pat straps runners use--they are bands placed either above or below the knee cap that stabilize the knee cap, especially as you go down hill. Has pretty much eliminated the knee pain for both my husband and I.

[Chatter]

Yes, for knee problems, losing weight helps, as does exercise to prevent pain in the first place. Ibuprofen is a great buffer and wrapping the knee can help ward off pain. Many of us have taken those steps. However, the impacts of going down "mountains" (especially at a fast pace), even with poles will eventually take its toll after years of backpacking.

Given well-conditioned knees, if you take a spill on a slippery surface, twist a knee in the process and continue downward at a speedy pace, knee pain is not likely to subside until something happens. Namely, you will slow down simply because you can't hobble fast for very long. Ask how I know. This past weekend's Parade of Fools in the Massachusetts Berkshires section of the AT brought all that home to me on the second and final day of that little 20-mile-per-day trek.

A zero day does wonders. One day back home of just not quickly bouncing down slopes and stairs has restored my twisted knee to its former (albeit aging) self. Now, I'm ready to start working the knee again and thinking about the next jaunt. Hmmm, I hear the NH Whites calling. ;)

[Chatter]

P.S., for the record, after injuring my knee on the second day of the recent Parade of Fools, I was hobbling so slow, I decided to bail after the first 7 miles of that day. I was prepared to continue at a snail's pace, but decided to accept the offer of a ride from a good samaritan at a trailhead.

The point here being, that while an injured knee might not stop one altogether, it will certainly take you "out of the running".

[Blissful]

My knees - esp knee caps, really began to bother me consistently after the WHites. it's just tough terrain. Esp after Mt Madison They were never the same after that day.
Anyway -
Take mega glucosomine twice a day.
Use trekking poles.
Watch your pack weight and keep it down.
Take it easy on downhills.
Don't rely on knee braces. Use it if you must (I wore mine no more than a hour a day if I had pain, esp in the beginning of the hike with ITB - illiotibial band syndrome), but then try to work without it. Once you use them consistently, you never get out of them.
Take it easy when you start the trail and do low miles. Don't go fast for the first hour in the AM. Let your limbs warm up. Do stretches for the various knee ligaments, esp the ITB stretch (I had a problem with that in the beginning of the trail until my knees adapted)

[take-a-knee]

take-a-knee - I've seen too many guys hurt themselves by going too heavy. I've done it myself with my shoulders. I know, I know, proper technique. I'm no expert but I think by working out well under your max, say 50-75% with reps, should strengthen the muscles enough. I rarely do weights that I cannot rep 8-10 times. Maybe I'm wrong here.

compass - Hiking Poles damn straight, just don't let LW read this.......heheh

I agree the bulk of your training should be high rep. You must change your routines and an excellent way to change is to up the weight and go low rep. If you injure yourself, you most likely will do so through biomechanically incorrect form, IE, you can do light deadlifts with an arched back, if you go heavy and do this you'll cripple yourself. And speaking of deadlifts, that is the singlemost beneficial strength exercise you can do, but you've gotta do it right.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjBI9qxibTc

[Frosty]

Heavy weight training, on the other hand, probably works against you.Very true, plus there is no need for heavy weight training. Keeping the weights low enough that you can do at least 8 reps will give you all the strength you need. Massive weights are for the guys who are either trying to shape bodies for competition or are trying to impress people with what they can lift.

[shelterbuilder]

All of this is great advice. The only thing that I'll add is in regards to glucosamine - it does not seem to work for everyone, and there doesn't seem to be any documented reason why. If it does work for you, it may take several weeks for you to notice any difference. (I know it does for me.)

[Skidsteer]

Moderate weight training has done wonders for my well-being. I agree that having stronger muscles helps protect joints.

Heavy weight training, on the other hand, probably works against you.


Very true, plus there is no need for heavy weight training. Keeping the weights low enough that you can do at least 8 reps will give you all the strength you need. Massive weights are for the guys who are either trying to shape bodies for competition or are trying to impress people with what they can lift.

I'll try to put this in perspective.

There is no need for heavy weight training, but it is very beneficial in the fight against aging especially if one of your personal key definitions of aging is loss of strength.

Constant workouts at a weight that allows for 8-10 reps will definitely help one maintain strength at a higher rate than the general populace that does not engage in weight training. The question is: Is that the most effecient way?

I don't think so. Most people will 'plateau' in a matter of weeks using this routine. IOW, you reach a maximum weight for the specified reps and no matter how hard you try, you can't go above it. Persisting in a weight training routine like this is boring, tedious, and, I believe, leads to injuries.

It helps to shock your body with heavier weights from time to time.

[modiyooch]

I have no joint pains. I don't use poles. I don't take inflammatories. I am very fortunate. I have also been a runner for 33 years. It will be a sad, sad, day, when these legs give out.

[take-a-knee]

I have no joint pains. I don't use poles. I don't take inflammatories. I am very fortunate. I have also been a runner for 33 years. It will be a sad, sad, day, when these legs give out.

If you don't start lifting weights NOW, it may not be long before they do. A man in his forties loses about a pound of muscle each year. Dr. Ken Cooper has reams of data that proves that there is no longevity benefit from running more than 15 miles per week. Once you reach that level, adding a resistance program will do much more for your long term health than running more miles.

[modiyooch]

If you don't start lifting weights NOW, it may not be long before they do. A man in his forties loses about a pound of muscle each year. Dr. Ken Cooper has reams of data that proves that there is no longevity benefit from running more than 15 miles per week. Once you reach that level, adding a resistance program will do much more for your long term health than running more miles.
What's the stats for a woman? I am female. I only run 15 miles a week. I think that I'm going to start biking a couple of days. I can hike uphill, I can run uphill; but I cannot bike uphill. It's wearing me out.

[take-a-knee]

What's the stats for a woman? I am female. I only run 15 miles a week. I think that I'm going to start biking a couple of days. I can hike uphill, I can run uphill; but I cannot bike uphill. It's wearing me out.

I'm not sure about the ladies, but since ladies have lower testosterone and hence, less muscle to begin with, weightliftling is even more essential for them to maintain functional strength. As for biking uphill, try this after some proper coaching:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjBI9qxibTc

[modiyooch]

I know that I need to go back to the gym, specifically for my lower back and abs. I got started early with weightlifting based on Arnold Schwartzn....'s book from the '70s. I have proper coaching/training/knowledge, I just don't have the motivation, hence all I do is run, hike, and backpack. The first thing that I need to do is STRETCH and I don't even do that.

[CherrypieScout]

For 10+ years I have taken glucosamine, chondrotin. Arthritis runs in my family. I think the stuff has protected my knees, hips, ankles through the years. I'm a believer. A couple of years ago I tore my ACL 40 miles away from my car while hiking in VA. I wrapped it and used my hiking sticks to move on. I stepped down a steep rock and must have wiggled funny or something. When I had surgery to repair the tear, the doc said my knees did not show any arthritis.
Lunges - done correctly will strengthen the muscles around the knee. I have started my workout for the trail. I have about 6 weeks to prepare. I workout on a regular basis anyway, but add the lunges (which I hate) with a few other lower body moves. I have to stretch my IT band. It will cause discomfort on the trail. When hiking I take vitamin I (ibupropin) and Aleve as necessary.
THe best prep I do before section hiking in the summers is to walk with loaded pack every morning for about 3 miles. Makes the first few days of hiking much more pleasant. AS we get older - must take time to prepare.

[mudhead]

Oddball knee exercise I was shown.

Sit on floor. Left knee to chest, right leg straight, toes pointed up. Grasp left knee with both hands, lift right leg, touching knee to arm. Leg straight, elbow up. Do some reps. Switch legs.

Targets two strips of connection, inner/outer sides of knee. Hold the leg up in the air and you can feel the strips.

Go slow, no bouncing your heel off the floor. Shoulders back, suck in that gut. Gimme a smile...